fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Mark Jeske Is the Unseen Presence in All This":
[Sentence fragment ->] Through hatred and false claims. This is the way of current blogging. [Unsupported accusation. ->] Use a general comment which has absolutely no foundation. I have gone through MLC, [semi-colon needed, not a comma] I have worshiped there every day and night [Really?]. I have listened to law and gospel every day, but yet [but yet is a new form of English] you claim that most kids there don't experience Lutheran Worship [worship]. Are you there? Do you speak with those who preach there every day and night? do [Do] you listen to chapel pod casts? [No one is allowed to unbend the knee before Holy Mother WELS: infallible, indefectible, immaculate, ineluctable.]
Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura are preached. they [They] are taught, they dominate our education. [So why is a D.Min. from Fuller Seminary teaching "evangelism?"]
It really sounds to me that you are making a law concerning worship, that you have the Lutheran Rule and everyone else is to follow.
But when it comes to Lutheran Worship [worship], there is freedom within the man made Liturgies [man-made liturgies- feel the contempt in "man-made"] that we follow. If Koine plays and more people [more people what? puke? clap? turn Babtist?] so be it, we have churches for the sick. The chapel doesn't schedule people to fill church but they schedule groups to enrich worship.
If I get Camp Phillip's praise band to enrich my worship service and more people come to that service, i [I] am only convinced more that my people are sinners and i [I] am the worst. What do you expect? that we will all be holy and blameless here on earth and we do all things for the right reasons? Do individuals tune into your webcast for the right reasons every sunday? [Sunday] i [I] would be confident in saying no. [How do you know, fight4god? Have you spoken with me or any listeners?]
I chuckle at your vile and distaste [vile is an adjective, but used here as a noun in parallel with distaste] for the WELS. You hope that the synod falls and is punished by God. [fight4god, you claim to be a mind and motive reader.] You claim that we believe everyone is saved by God before their coming to faith. [No, you claim that. DP Buchholz declared that in a convention paper.] That is simply false and not taught at Seminary and is not taught in Luther's Catechism. [I have documented many instances and given the citations. You simply deny the obvious. The Mequon website actually shows quotations about justification by faith being marked as "misleading."]
Your attacks on good men in the synod however is [the singular verb does not agree with the plural subject] ill founded. [This sentence is incomprehensible. You disagree with some of the men? ->] I don't disagree with some of your findings, but with many of the men that you attack as Church and Changers and Church Growth guys etc. not [Not] all of them are what you say they are. [<- This is another unwarranted claim.] I have spoken with them. I have worshiped at many of their churches. I would say as a pastor, I am do not [am do not?] appreciate empty songs, and fluffy blah sermons, and lovey dovey emotional experiences at church. If i [I] have read enough of your stuff you always paint with a broad brush regarding all of these men. [<-This is another accusation without any proof.] You are indeed wrong.
***
GJ - The Sausage Factory brags about their educational system, which is allegedly the envy of every denomination of the world. Third world chieftains and ox-cart owners send their sons to WELS so they can compete in the global economy.
---
fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":
You are so predictable greg! as i was writing in a flurry of thought and objection, i thought to myself "boy this is poorly written, but he's smart, he can decipher it and understand what i am talking about!"
but instead you did what you have done before, attack the grammar, punctuation, and then belittle the author's intelligence.
brilliant greg.
avoid debate, correct the grammar in comments made, belittle a pastor. just another day in your shoes eh?
---
fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":
my screen name is simply gleaned from one of my favorite hymns, Onward Christian Soldiers. Soldiers fight and also protect.
***
GJ - You fight without discipline and run without shame, fight4god. You have not made a single argument, only some vague accusations and even vaguer defenses. We are all dying to know who these pastors are who are NOT Church and Change. And why not leave your name and congregation, o great fighter?
---
rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":
This young lad needs to learn that you do not bring a knife to a gunfight.
---
AC V has left a new comment on your post "Mark Jeske Is the Unseen Presence in All This":
fight4God said:
"You claim that we believe everyone is saved by God before their coming to faith. That is simply false and not taught at Seminary and is not taught in Luther's Catechism."
You are correct that it is not taught in Luther's Catechism. But you might want to try to untangle this mess taught by Seminary professors and other Synod officials:
"God has declared all guilty sinners not guilty by his gracious, saving work in Christ Jesus." (Lines 172-173)
- Translation Evaluation Committee; Pastor John A. Braun (NPH), Professor Kenneth A Cherney Jr. (WLS) Professor Thomas P. Nass (MLC) Pastor Joel V. Petermann (District President, MLC President-elect); Professor Paul O. Wendland (WLS President)
http://www.wels.net/sites/wels/files/BORAM2011_supplemental_translationevaluationcommittee.pdf
"The astonishing reality is that God has forgiven the sins of the whole world, whether people believe it or not." - Forward in Christ, October 2011. Forrest Bivens, (WLS)
At best these men are muddled in their understanding and teaching of justification by faith alone. At worst, they are teaching a false gospel.
---
LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":
fight4God? God doesn't need anyone fighting for Him much less winning souls for Him. This is a fallacy.
The argument for forms of worship is not the issue. The motivation is the issue. Sad to say WELS has gone headlong now into CGM as evidenced by the Evangelism Day itinerary.
---
WELS church lady has left a new comment on your post "WELS Martin Luther College - What They Hid from th...":
Poor Stroh, Pastor GJ wasted all the yellow highlighter. I suppose the highlighter ran dry by the time Birkholz's name appeared. Yes, he was Michele Bachman's former pastor. Birkholz is close buddies with Mark Jeske. Birkholz is the adviser for Jeske's Grace In Action subversivness organization.
Bill Mier...I spoke to him in person last Sunday. He did a Kingdom Workers presentation for our adult members. I have high respect for those WELS members who involved with Builders For Christ. Builder's predates Kingdom Workers, yet Kingdom Workers controls Builders and other groups. These people are not fancy Church and Change types. They tend to be older adults who work for food and a place to stay.(some have RVs)
Oh, I happen to be a member of my church's evangelism committee. We REFUSE to use those gimmicks presented by Church And Change Evangelism workshops. Keeping the church clean and having the pastor speak with all new guests are common sense.
Long-story-short, Mark Jeske is a the top of all that is evil in the WELS. You may refer to my previous comments concerning Jeske.
In Christ,
Rebecca
---
AC V has left a new comment on your post "Mark Jeske Is the Unseen Presence in All This":
fight4God,
Take some time to read through the posts on this site re UOJ. Then/or compare and contrast what Bivens said...
"The astonishing reality is that God has forgiven the sins of the whole world, whether people believe it or not." - Forward in Christ, October 2011. Forrest Bivens
...with what Luther said:
"If I now seek the forgiveness of sins, I do not run to the cross, for I will not find it given there. Nor must I hold to the suffering of Christ as Dr. Karlstadt trifles, in knowledge or remembrance, for I will not find it there either. But I will find in the sacrament or the gospel the word which distributes, presents, offers, and gives to me that forgiveness which was won on the cross" ("Against the Heavenly Prophets" AE 40:214).
I'll stick with Luther. He wasn't an Enthusiast.
---
AC V has left a new comment on your post "Mark Jeske Is the Unseen Presence in All This":
fight4God said,
"No one is saying that everyone is saved whether they like it or not,..."
AZ/CA District President Jon Buchholz is:
In contrast to the “Jesus Saves” churches, we don’t preach a salvation that is incomplete and just waiting for the sinner to do something to complete the transaction. We proclaim boldly, “Jesus Saved,” past tense, finished, certain."
http://www.wlsessays.net/files/BuchholzJustification.pdf
---
fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":
still hung up on capitalization huh? too bad.
anyways, to DP Buckholz's paper:
I agree with what he wrote. thank you again for leading me again to a well written paper. Reread the first half of the paper and it is quite clear is isn't an advocate of everyone is going to heaven whether they like it or not. He said that salvation is not "waiting for the sinner to complete the transaction." What's wrong with that? Sounds like a Sola Fide, Sola Gratia statement to me. Sounds like a defense against the synergistic ways of the reformed church body to me. Does not sound like he is advocating all are saved but that Christ completed the work on Calvary. There is nothing more that you or I can do to complete the work. It is done.
DP said on pg. 7 part 1. "There is one justification; it is an objective, universal reality, completed by Christ at Calvary, and appropriated subjectively through faith." How do we read this and the rest of his paper and continue to think he is advocating all are saved and will go to heaven.
Can you not see what he said in the quotation? He is stressing how the work of Salvation is done, that's it. Christ's saving work is done. Nothing more to do. And this salvation is ours through faith.
DP Buckholz has made this clear more than several times in his paper.
***
GJ - Har. Har. You cannot spell the name of a DP correctly. I suggest that you go to a good school and learn the basics of English. You are the poster-child for the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Google search is your friend. Or just read the tag on his shirt in the graphic.
---
WELS church lady has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":
Thanks for the clarification KC. Yes, there are too many Mark's, Marcus's, and Holz's in the WELS.
In Christ,
Rebecca
15 comments:
This young lad needs to learn that you do not bring a knife to a gunfight.
fight4God? God doesn't need anyone fighting for Him much less winning souls for Him. This is a fallacy.
The argument for forms of worship is not the issue. The motivation is the issue. Sad to say WELS has gone headlong now into CGM as evidenced by the Evangelism Day itinerary.
my screen name is simply gleaned from one of my favorite hymns, Onward Christian Soldiers. Soldiers fight and also protect.
rlschultz: Fights happen with enemies. i didn't always equate this site and it's moderator as an enemy. i wouldn't call him a brother either, but surely not my enemy. in a weird way whether greg can see it or not, i am trying to uphold the truth and purity of scripture as he would claim to do as well.
in the future i won't bring a knife nor a gun nor any other tool but my Old and New Testament.
Yikes, I hope this is not one of my former students! Fight, why don't you come back after you've tightened up your grammar.
Remember, your moderator is a college professor. He will nail you everytime, as well he should. I always double check grammar and spelling when I post here. It's made me a more careful writer, I think.
Start using your shift key, so you look like you made it out of sixth grade, fight4god.
i didn't know poor punctuation got under your skin this much. i have to admit it doesn't bother me in the least. Then again, i teach 5-8 catechism class and their grammar and punctuation is often times texting 101.
i do find it a bit funny how Adolph reminds me that you should slam me for having poor grammar, as if to say this is always a scholarly run site.
half the time i come onto this site to read Christian News, Lutheran News and the like and your comments on half of the stories drip with sarcasm. the comments and language you use is divisive and puts people into a defensive mode immediately. considering Scripture speaks of winning a brother over, you methods are a bit odd and abrasive.
As per your previous request:
I will not reveal my identity nor the identity of my flock and my bothers who are faithfully serving the Lord.
The scrutiny, some of it warranted, other times unfounded, which you brought against other pastor's in the WELS is something that my dear friends and brothers don't have to deal with.
I am not saying that everything is rosy in the WELS, but I would not be so bold or blind to say that WELS is going down like a sinking ship. Does church and change over reach at times? Yes. Do they hear from their concerned brothers? They hear from me. And I know many of my classmates when I talk with them, do the very same thing.
If we didn't have problems I would be worried. We are humans Greg, God has given us his precious Word, yet we still find ways to muck it up. Satan still is prowling around, my sinful nature would like to find a gimmic that could put butts in the pews, but that's not what God has told me to do. Preach the Word. The Spirit works through the Word and through the Spirit's work in the Gospel, despite my unintelligent writing style, or any other deficiency you may see in me, the Word of the Lord grows.
fight4God...Dr. Jackson has stuck to orthodox Lutheran doctrine while pointing out the problems with CGM and how it goes against the very Word of God. So who is being divisive?
Sloppy grammar and a lack of interest in communicating clearly and concisely is a symptom of apathy. And that apathy is consistent with sloppy doctrine.
fight4God,
What kind of excuse for poor grammar is teaching 5-8 Catechism class? I used to teach lower elementary grades, but that does not mean I write like them.
If I am not mistaken, this is a polemic site. I believe a guy named Luther used polemics too. So be prepared when you come here.
I also believe that's the way you treated each other at WLS, isn't it? Therefore, you should be used to it.
I'm glad I gave you a laugh, but please use that shift key!
I take it that the gentleman commenter is from an American Anglo-Saxon ancestry. If so, then even grammatical errors are not confined to second hand English users.
LPC
Lito, the Changers pick on you because you miss on some American idioms, but they do not know their own language well enough to use it. And they are too lazy to capitalize when necessary, but add capitals which do not belong.
Their cavalier attitude toward the Queen's language is similar to their attitude toward Christian doctrine. The first is self-damning. The second is damning.
still hung up on capitalization huh? too bad.
anyways, to DP Buckholz's paper:
I agree with what he wrote. thank you again for leading me again to a well written paper. Reread the first half of the paper and it is quite clear is isn't an advocate of everyone is going to heaven whether they like it or not. He said that salvation is not "waiting for the sinner to complete the transaction." What's wrong with that? Sounds like a Sola Fide, Sola Gratia statement to me. Sounds like a defense against the synergistic ways of the reformed church body to me. Does not sound like he is advocating all are saved but that Christ completed the work on Calvary. There is nothing more that you or I can do to complete the work. It is done.
DP said on pg. 7 part 1. "There is one justification; it is an objective, universal reality, completed by Christ at Calvary, and appropriated subjectively through faith." How do we read this and the rest of his paper and continue to think he is advocating all are saved and will go to heaven.
Can you not see what he said in the quotation? He is stressing how the work of Salvation is done, that's it. Christ's saving work is done. Nothing more to do. And this salvation is ours through faith.
DP Buckholz has made this clear more than several times in his paper.
Commenting on this site makes me feel as if I were commenting to Pharisees. So I write poorly and communicate poorly therefore the logical conclusion is that I have poor attitude toward's doctrine? WHAT?!? So what you are saying Greg is that since I struggle with proper English, I therefore struggle with proper Doctrine.
That is quite mean Greg. I pity any individual you may counsel who is less gifted than you, or a brother who has deficiencies comes to you. What comfort can you give them. There is no empathy or understanding.
It must be hard being you since according to your words which you write, everyone needs to measure up to you. Sad. Dreadfully sad. How can you even call yourself a servant. When you write against me there is not a single bit of humility there.
1 Timothy 1:15. Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of whom I am the worst.
Believe it Greg. You are, just as I am the very ugliest of sinners and Christ died for the both of us. Yet you are so focused on my typing. My grammar. My unintelligible, incomprehensible writing.
You lost a blog reader. And whatever respect I had for you. I remember in Seminary reading about you and your disgust over the brothers making fun of each other. I felt sorry for you. I don't anymore. My brothers love me. We support each other in the ministry.
Luther Rocks says you support Lutheran Orthodoxy, well that may be, but you don't support those who preach it like me and hundreds of others in the WELS.
God's Blessings to you Greg. Farewell.
A first Generation Pastor, proudly serving his flock. Faithfully administering the Means of Grace. Diligently studying the Word.
Church Lady -
"Yes, he was Michele Bachman's former pastor. "
You're confusing Mark Birkholz with Marcus Birkholz.
Post a Comment