Ichabod, The Glory Has Departed

Why Do UOJ Zombies Continue To Fool Themselves?

2012-02-02T08:20:00.004-06:00

Tim Glende does not find this funny,
because it is not scatological and abusive.

Nothing is quite so puzzling as Lutherans constantly at war against faith, especially justification by faith.

The LCMS is no longer a UOJ shop, but WELS and the Little Sect on the Prairie have a dictatorial grip on the topic. Very few laity are bewitched by UOJ or even know about it. The Scriptures, liturgy, and hymns do not teach a magical absolution of the world, so trying to insert that language is a trial for the language-impaired. The New NIV will fix that, which is the #1 reason for WELS promoting it.

Here are some reasons why some remain UOJ zombies. I trace it to assumptions:

"Walther was never wrong about anything." Many synodical fans are reduced to making all the doctrinal opinions and historical facts fit this assumption. Walther taught UOJ, so anyone questioning that new doctrine is a heretic.
"Faith is bad. Faith is a work of man." This one comes from the Calvinists arguing with Arminians, who did teach that faith was a virtue. At least the Calvinists saw it that way. Therefore, the UOJ Stormtroopers are working from a Calvinist perspective.
"Atonement and justification are the same thing." This was a popular perspective in the 19th century, due to the nature of Lutheran-Reformed union churches and Pietism degenerating into rationalism. Double-justification means that first the entire world is absolved (even back to Adam, I suppose) for Part One, and individuals have to agree with that for Part Two. Because this is so anti-Biblical and Enthusiastic, not to mention rationalistic, Part Two simply drops out. Voila - mainline Protestantism today.
"Holy Mother Synod is infallible." No one will admit that Romanist takeaway, but this attitude is a synodical given, even in the tawdry cesspools of the CLC (sic). Swap man-boy rape videos with other perverts - the Synod President will announce your forgiveness to the world. Question UOJ - you will be given the Left Foot of Fellowship.

"That's Uncle Fritz you are talking about." Everyone has an Uncle Fritz in the synod. Because Walther put his stamp on everything, many were trained in his errors, since Ferdinand was the man to decode the Bible, the Book of Concord, and Luther. Questioning someone's uncle is regarded as worse than shooting Bambi's mother, so few will touch the topic in the open.
"You are next." The Stormtroopers love to beat people up in public while calling themselves confessional Lutherans. Few want to be singled out and some assume that people with no manners and no ethics must be orthodox.

Fired Mars Hill Church Elder Breaks Silence : MATTHEW PAUL TURNER ✪ Believing.Doubting.Writing.Parenting.Laughing.Thinking.Creating.Hoping.Living.

2012-02-02T07:06:00.003-06:00

Mark Driscoll is known as the cussing minister.

Fired Mars Hill Church Elder Breaks Silence : MATTHEW PAUL TURNER ✪ Believing.Doubting.Writing.Parenting.Laughing.Thinking.Creating.Hoping.Living.:

Tim Glende told his congregation they were going to a "pastor conference,"
but there was no WELS or ELS conference at the time
the trio went to Seattle and took this photo (minus Mark).

FIRED MARS HILL CHURCH ELDER BREAKS SILENCE

Posted by Matthew on Tuesday, January 31, 2012 · 42 Comments

Bent Meyer was fired by Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church in 2007. He spoke up on Sunday here. Bent’s backstory is offered here.

It’s not a long comment, but what he says is quite eye-opening and telling about the intentional narrow ministry mindedness of Mark.

I hope more people like Bent will speak up. Their stories are priceless to those who are suffering Mark’s consequences now.

I’ve heard from two Seattle journalists over the last couple days. Both said that former Mars Hill members are coming out of the wordwork to share their abuse stories.

It’s sad. And it keeps getting sadder.

I am one of the men fired the day of Mark’s rant about two elders he felt needed broken noses. Someone asked what has happened since that day.
I am happy to say, the next Sunday my wife and I attended another Church with far better expository teaching and a community that authentically and generously helps the marginalized.

I also finished my master program and have a private mental health practice serving the Seattle and Eastside area. This was a very good and satisfying result.

Regarding whether I spoke up or not. I have not been silenced by any direct or implied threats of retaliation. It is clear that the one who possess the air waves controls the content and spin of a story, so there was not much to be done.

I thought a lot about how I would response and just what my motives would be. I chose not to be lured into a public argument through the Seattle Times asking me for a blow by blow description of the events I have documented. I have a tendency to keep material for years and years.

I did prepare my narrative, including supporting documents, for members only to read who came to me for explanation. They had to agree never to disclose any of it to the media. These people have been honorable. As best I know, none have. By doing this I opened up myself to their scrutiny and possible rebuke. I have received nothing but kindness and support.

As to my motives, I want Mark’s best. In my opinion he is a very troubled man. He is caught in his own hell. The consequence, of course, is the influence he has on others, which is mixed.

He, Lief Moi, and Mike Gunn, together the founders of Mars Hill Church, sent out to focus on those that were young, upwardly mobile and future leaders. They wanted to position themselves to influence their faith decisions and their life choices. This is a lesson for many church leaders to learn from and choose for themselves.

The downside is Mark’s pathology shows up in ways that are impulsive, aggressive, irascible, shut off from effective relational influence, and most apparent not respectful and submissive to anyone, though he claims otherwise.

I have hoped and still hope for something short of him destroying himself that would bring about substantial change for this ever increasing population of worshiper. Some have fretted there will be a great loss of Christians with the demise of Mark and/or the Church. I don’t think so. The church that comprises all of us will survive. The chaff will be blown away, but the church will remain.

I would speak a caution to all of us. There is much to be learn for the Mars Hill phenomena. Don’t dismiss the hunger and openness to be influenced represented in those ages 18 through 30. Invent content that is useful and distribute it freely on the web. Always incorporate creatively some explanation of the gospel at the end of every teaching session with an invitation to do business with Jesus.

Even though Mark’s portrayal of masculinity is more like a comic book superhero and women needing to be protected and rescued is his focus, young men coming into manhood is richly important. Absent fathers is epidemic. Think about what it is that has caused them not to attach to their families. Mark comes at it from the standpoint of duty and responsibility, which is mechanical, missing other primary questions. Why do so many men not attach to their families? Why do they abandon family so easily? Mark uses shame and intimidation as the means of gaining compliance, which has the appearance of working, but is not transformational in the long run, or creates other issues of abusive relationships related to power and control. In many men, the tendency is understood in the short saying, “Monkey see monkey do.” Don’t over react, young men need to mature.

I feel like I need to give attention to the needs of women with equal if not more space since women are marginalized and silenced in so many ways. But, I will leave that for another time.

I hope this will satisfy the primary curiosity of those who wonder what has happened to me. I will say, the other elder fired at the same times is a good friend and is doing well.

Thankful that Bent shared.

I found this here.

ieatschwaemerei (http://ieatschwaemerei.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Investigating Universal Objective Justification":

This article will be interesting to you: http://matthewpaulturner.net/jesus-needs-new-pr/fired-mars-hill-church-elder-breaks-silence/

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VirtueOnline - News - Exclusives - Presiding Bishop and HOD President Face off over TEC Budget

2012-02-01T22:12:00.001-06:00

This an allegory for Jefferts-Schori's leadership.

VirtueOnline - News - Exclusives - Presiding Bishop and HOD President Face off over TEC Budget:

Presiding Bishop and HOD President Face off over TEC Budget
Litigation costs are forcing church's hand in how it will spend money now and in the future

By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
January 31, 2012

A power struggle and simmering rivalry which has been going on for a number of years between Presiding Bishop Jefferts Schori and House of Deputies president Bonnie Anderson erupted this past week when the Executive Council of The Episcopal Church met in Maryland where the two parties offered different visions of the mission of the church.

Executive Council received two different budget proposals from its Executive Committee with one setting the diocesan asking at the current level of 19 percent, and requiring cuts of almost $6 million from the $140 million 2010-2012 budget adopted by the General Convention. This is the position favored by PB Jefferts Schori.

The other lowers the diocesan asking to 15 percent and requires cuts of almost $21 million from the current budget. HOD President Anderson favors the 15 percent asking.

Both budgets were ultimately scuttled and a third budget was sent to Program, Budget & Finance.

"We have created something different and unique. There are increased funds for justice ministry in this budget that we will present to PB&F," Said Jefferts Schori at a press conference.

Anderson ripped the national church's current spending habits, "Let's reduce the amount that we ask dioceses to send to the Church Center. Let's study the best use of the building at 815 Second Avenue with an eye to freeing up for mission the $7.7 million dollars that is earmarked for facilities cost and debt repayment during the next triennium. Let's expect that dioceses and their networks know best how to build up God's church and support ministry where it is most effective. And as we change the budget, let's acknowledge that we also need to change our models of accountability and responsibility to be mutual and respectful of the entire people of God, not just those with ecclesial power."

VOL reporter Mary Ann Mueller confronted the Presiding Bishop with this charge at a press conference following to which Jefferts Schori retorted, "I believe that all members of The Episcopal Church have ecclesial power meant to be used in service of God's mission."

Bishop and Mrs. Robinson.
He divorced his wife.

Behind Anderson's charges are the horrendous millions of dollars being spent on lawsuits to reclaim churches that have fled TEC's grip. TEC mortgaged 815 2nd Ave., for $60 million to continue the lawsuits and now must earmark millions for repayments. The reason for all this goes back to the consecration of the libidinous homosexual Bishop of New Hampshire Gene Robinson whose behavior brought about the tear in the Episcopal Church resulting in the formation of the Anglican Church in North America. Sin has consequences and it is catching up with The Episcopal Church big time. Aspects of mission are being downgraded for payments that MUST be made. Banks offer no mercy.

Chief Operating Office Bishop Stacy Sauls commented, "This meeting, as you might imagine, is the source of no small amount of anxiety for the staff as we consider the budget... Managers and team leaders are engaged in conversations about how to take whatever budget comes from General Convention and dream, create, adapt, and act. But I do ask you to be sensitive to their legitimate needs in this time."

He also asked for "a serious discussion of far-reaching structural reform leaving nothing off the table and no question unasked."

INTERPRETATION: The money is not coming in to cover all the crazy stuff TEC wants to pass and sponsor which the world and most of the laity in the Episcopal Church ignore. Canon lawyer A. S. Haley noted those challenges calling them "significant and substantial."

Kirk Hadaway, the church official in charge of congregational research, and Matthew Price of the Church Pension Fund raised the alarm saying that 72% of Episcopal congregations were in financial stress as of 2010 (compared to 58% of other denominations for the same year) -- the highest level in the past decade, by far... The question is how long will it be before the other 28% succumb and find they can barely raise enough funds to keep the doors open and salaries paid.

In order to get her way, Jefferts Schori blindsided the HOD president by going directly to the House of Deputies through the House of Bishops with a video of her plans and her take on the budget.

This so incensed Anderson that she fired back a public letter in which she said that the Office of Communications email sent to all the bishops had mischaracterized her response to the video's release and asked the bishops to forward the video message to their diocese's deputies.

She noted angrily, "In my nearly 25 years as a deputy, I don't ever recall the Presiding Bishop speaking directly to the House of Deputies outside of a joint session or without giving the House due notice, while at General Convention. I don't ever recall a Presiding Bishop corresponding directly with deputies outside of the General Convention, without the knowledge of, or in collaboration with the President.

"I was surprised because I thought that the Presiding Bishop, her staff, and I had worked through some important issues of internal communications last fall. I had talked with both Bishop Sauls and the Presiding Bishop and asked that we proceed in a more collegial and cooperative manner. I thought we had agreed to do so.

"But while the General Convention Office was holding the video, it was released by the Office of Communications to the whole church just hours before the Presiding Bishop and I were scheduled to arrive in Baltimore where we could have resolved the situation in person.

"I told her that I am concerned about the use of church wide resources to lobby General Convention on only one side of a legislative issue.

"Despite this productive conversation, upon direction from the Presiding Bishop, the Office of Communications sent the second email, this time to bishops, that mischaracterized my request that the video be held, thus putting me in a difficult position and making it necessary to spell all of this out."

Canon lawyer and former Eau Claire bishop William Wantland told VOL that Jefferts Schori's actions were "sneaky but legal." There is no limitation on a Diocesan Bishop speaking to the Diocesan Deputies, he said.

In the end money, or the lack of it, will determine the course of action TEC will take. The two women, who both share a liberal theological worldview will find that whatever they decide, events will overtake them and determine the course of TEC's long spiral downward.

END

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Dwight Moody: the evangelist who nearly wasn’t « Churchmouse Campanologist

2012-02-01T20:54:00.001-06:00

Dwight Moody: the evangelist who nearly wasn’t « Churchmouse Campanologist:

"Moody’s visits to the UK made news in Sweden. Swedish pietists invited him to travel there but he never did. Nonetheless, the Swedish Mission Friends looked forward to reading his sermons and sang Sankey’s hymns. Swedes who emigrated to Chicago attended Moody’s church."

'via Blog this'

GJ - I highly recommend this series. Moody was very important. I grew up listening to WDLM radio from Chicago, a city with a large Swedish population.

Augustana began as a Pietistic mission, but became confessional, as the name suggests. I look forward to future installments.

All Time Favorite Post Is...Drumroll

2012-02-01T18:35:00.000-06:00

Tim Glende loved this photo so much that it remained his Facebook profile picture for a long time.
That is not his wife or daughter, but Katy Perry, the ex-wife of Russell Brand.
Tim wrote so many anonymous comments on this blog that I began
to call him A. Nony Mouse.
Tim began a blog with that name, but erased it.

The all-time favorite post, since June of 2010, is...

The Rev. A. Nony Mouse Hates These Sayings But Loves To Plagiarize Groeschel.

5,224 views so far. But nobody reads this blog.

What did the toxic but anonymous bully complain about in the latest fake blog eructation?

Quotations! He hates those collections of quotations.

He probably hates how appropriate they are, how the Word of God condemns his life, his false doctrine, his slaughter of the sheep.

One of Tim's Boys: Engaging, Articulate, Well-Informed, A Gentleman to The CORE

2012-02-01T18:21:00.000-06:00

Mequon graduates provide medical opinions,
before anyone asks for one.
Their wives help out, too.

Anonymous said...I was thinking about it the other day and following the UOJ debate over at that Steadfast Lutheran blog: Does anyone think Jackson might have an undiagnosed form of autism? Aspergers perhaps? My wife works with kids like that in special ed. program in south Milwaukee and he seems to display a lot of the characteristics. For one thing, he has a hard time interacting with people on an emotional level. His humor is stuff that only he thinks is funny. I often times go his page and look at all his odd photo-shop stuff and think "I don't get it. Is this supposed to be funny? I mean, I can't even figure out what he's trying to portray here." It would also explain his relationship with his parishners. He seems to have never figured out that they uniformly disliked him. Secondly, people with Aspergers typically can't understand written works on an intuitive level. They are really good at memorizing facts, but they don't see the big picture. Case-in-point: Jackson builds up great deposits of quotes in his posts, but he doesn't really understands how to interpret them. I mean, looking at his "scholarship," I get why he could get into Notre Dame but then took 15 years to graduate. He can memorize facts, but he has no comprehension of how they work together or even that different words have nuance and can mean different things in different contexts. He probably aced the GRE, but then couldn't comprehend most of the course material. He's told some stories about his relationship with Yoder that seem to hint at that. Anyways, just an idea. Aspergers in a person of his generation would probably not have been diagnosed so it sort of makes sense.

***

GJ - A typical WELS tactic is to start with falsehoods and spin tales from that. A little research would turn up my basic bio, which means I finished college, seminary, and a master's at Yale in 7 years, a PhD program at Notre Dame in 7 years. If you add an MA in education, 15 years would be the time involved in earning six degrees rather than one. That by itself would show the Glende pal (or Glende himself) to be an ignorant, hate-filled misanthrope. My diagnosis is - alcoholism, addiction to porn, and extreme laziness.

Northwestern Publishing House wants me to review their books, so WELS must think I can read and comprehend theological content. I wonder if the writer has ever been asked to review a book from a publisher. Has he ever written a book or essay? Has he ever signed his name to a comment?

Northwestern Publishing House also sells Catholic, Lutheran, Protestant. That meant studying the doctrine of Roman Catholicism, Lutheran orthodoxy, and Protestantism while providing a useful guide for all three. WELS sold cartons of the books years ago, and the book continues to sell. I am surprised that so many genius-level Mequon graduates never wrote anything like it. Glende's Uncle Brug recommended it to his classes, the last I heard.

At one point all the doctrinal books at NPH were written by non-WELS authors. How does one explain that fact to us supposed Asperger patients?

We have trouble relating to Lutheran pastors who copy Groeschel sermons verbatim, not comprehending that they have left the Lutheran Church by doing so.

The latest comment on Glende's anonymous blog simply means that the Time of Wrath/Church and Chicanery forces are feeling the hurt from being exposed. More people are questioning their honesty, morality, decency, and doctrine.

The Hochmuth scandal, which Glende wants to cover up with PR, is just the tip of septic tank in WELS. Ask an insider. I have.

Jack Kilcrease, Paul McCain, and Rolf Preus: Anti-Means of Grace Triple Threat

2012-02-01T14:58:00.001-06:00

Two years in the parish and he still calls
himself a pastor - just like Walther.

Comment Link: http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=4190#comment-279717
Author: Rev. Paul T. McCain
Comment:
I see that the Jackson disciples have been hard at work here spreading the Gospel according to Jackson.

People should know that Greg Jackson is a false teacher. He was, at one point, a Lutheran pastor, but he is no longer. He was expelled from several Lutheran church bodies. [GJ - Note his lies about working with Herman Otten. Same old liar - Paul McCain. He was already in legal trouble in the 1990s with Larry Darby for trashing Larry, one of the more generous donors to his alma mater, Concordia Seminary, Ft. Wayne.]

He now claims to have a "church" on the Internet, providing "worship services" and even communion, via streaming video on the Internet, from a spare bedroom in his house. Meyer and Cruz are two of his "members" ... things are so bad that Jackson even coaches these people to hold elements up to the computer screen while he "consecrates" them. [GJ - Another delusion from McCain. He was recently forced to apologize to Norman Teigen for the vicious lies published on his crypto-Roman blog. He also said the congregation was named after my dead daughter, another false assertion. Why was this charmer banned from the ALPB's online forum?]

The best advice anyone could give to people who may be tempted to engage in conversation with Jackson or his small group of fanatic disciples is simply this: Mark and avoid them. Jackson and his followers are wolves in sheep's clothing, deceived and deceiving others.

We should have nothing to do with them, other than to rebuke them sharply and warn others.

I believe that the BJS site is doing no good service in providing a platform for these deniers of the Biblical and Lutheran doctrine of justification.

---

Jack Kilcrease, Roman Catholic employee,
is Paul McCain's expert on UOJ.

Carl Vehse strikes me as having a similar attitude.
Vehse knew all about Bishop Stephan's adultery,
like the Walther brothers and the rest of the Saxon Pietists.
Syphillis was the deal-breaker.

Dr. Jack Kilcrease has left a new comment on your post "Investigating Universal Objective Justification":

You write:

"Jack Kilcrease--trained by ELCA, employed by Roman Catholics to teach religion to papists--gave away his profound ignorance of Lutheran theology by his repeated references to "the doctrine of Objective Justification." David Scaer and Paul McCain think he is the bomb. The Lutheran Reformers avoided such terminology as "the doctrine of..." There is only one doctrine, a unified truth - in harmony with the entire witness of the Sacred Scriptures. Writing about "doctrines" in the plural suggests a modular view of Christianity, where some units can be changed, others dropped, and still others added."

SD V states:
"These two doctrines, we believe and confess, should ever and ever be diligently inculcated in the Church of God even to the end of the world"

Interesting how they use the word "doctrine" to describe separate articles of the faith (law and gospel).

What about Ep Rule and Norm section?:

"To this direction, as above announced, all doctrines are to be conformed, and what is, contrary thereto is to be rejected and condemned, as opposed to the unanimous declaration of our faith."

Again, interesting how here the body of doctrine is call (sic) "doctrines." Very interesting indeed.

***

GJ - "To avoid" is not synonymous with "to never use." Poor Jack is so busy dazzling McCain and Scaer than he has lost his grip on the English language. Like the others, Kilcrease constantly makes a fool of himself by constantly going back to the absolution of the world, which is not taught in the Scriptures, never affirmed in the Book of Concord, and never taught with seriousness before Halle University's rancid Pietism began to take effect.

The double-justification language of OJ and SJ, lovingly stroked by the trio, is from the Calvinist Woods translation of the rationalist-Pietist Knapp's textbook. Walther later approved of the language and F. Pieper canonized it.

---

OJ trembled on Melanchthon's lips,
Rolf would have us believe.
No, this confesses exactly what Robert Preus wrote in
Justification and Rome.

LaughQuest has this gem from Rolf Preus:

As AC IV makes clear, the faith through which we are justified is the faith that believes that Christ suffered for us and that for his sake our sin is forgiven and righteousness and eternal life are given to us. To believe that for Christ's sake our sin is forgiven is to believe in objective justification.

“I haven’t seen a clear Scripture passage that states that God ever absolved the world of sin, or that the sins of the world have been remitted – although they have certainly all been paid for!”

Romans 4, 25 clearly teaches that God absolved the world of sin.

***

GJ - Romans 4 is a chapter on Abraham as the father of faith, climaxing with believers being justified by faith. World absolution is definitely not taught in Romans 4 or 5.

---

Author: Dr. Jack Kilcrease

http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=4190#comment-279752
Comment:
<a href="#comment-279742" rel="nofollow">@Jim Pierce #225 </a>

Apt analogy with the oneness penecostals. I've had the same experience.

I think everyone can see why I warned against engaging with the Jackson sect. Discussions and debates with them are highly fruitless since they simply endlessly accuse one of holding positions that they do not.

---

Comment Link: http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=4190#comment-279771
Author: Rev. Paul T. McCain
Comment:
Jack, you are entirely correct. Engagement is futile. There is such a thing as invincible ignorance and Jackson and his disciples are prime examples of it.

---

Gibbon - "They fought without discipline and ran without shame."

---

Dr. Jack Kilcrease has left a new comment on your post "Jack Kilcrease, Paul McCain, and Rolf Preus: Anti-...":

Actually, I believe it is you who has missed the point. I am aware the the term "avoid" need not mean "never." The point is that you haven't provided any evidence that the Reformers, Confessors, or the Lutheran scholastics "avoided" the use of doctrine as a pural or talk of individual doctrines. My use of the Formula of Concord was intentional: If it was their MO to "avoid" such a practice (as you assert), they would have tried not to use such terminology in central confessonal document. But of course they show no such aversion and very casually use the term "doctrine" for individual articles of the faith. Certainly they want to define doctrine as a coherence body (corpus doctrina), but that does not mean that they avoided talk of individual articles of the faith as doctrines.

Actually, if you've read Preus or Richard Muller's scholarship on the period of Reformed and Lutheran scholasticism, you would know that the loci-method actually tended to isolate individual doctrines within given treatises designated as "common places." As Preus and Muller note, the development of each doctine is self-contained. This would suggest that both Lutherans and Reformed folks often thought of and developed individual doctrines on their own, even if they thought the the given doctrine had a larger meaning within the corpus doctrina. Hence, the arrangment of these doctrines within larger systematic theologies of the period tends to be arbitrary. For this reason, I do not think you have much of a basis for making your claim.

Now, I know you probably won't publish this. But I thought that I would clarify my point any way.

I wish you all the best and that God may bless you in spite of your theological errors.

***

GJ - Jack, you need an account on LaughQuest. You would no longer feel like an outcast. Maybe McCain can recommend you - while denying that he did.

---

"Enjoy our nuanced blend of Evolution and creation,
Roman liturgy and Arminian content,
on sale now at CPH."

bruce-church (http://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Jack Kilcrease, Paul McCain, and Rolf Preus: Anti-...":

Now that UOJ and McCain's evolution pandering to kids has been outed, he says everyone ought to mark and avoid the Ichablog. It's rather like the mafia telling people not to talk to the FBI and cops so they can get back to their business as normal, taking in money from people who think they are orthodox Lutherans.

David R. Barnhart: Komen Drops Funding for Planned Parenthood

2012-02-01T14:18:00.001-06:00

David R. Barnhart: Komen Drops Funding for Planned Parenthood:

"Abiding Word Ministries has previously reported Susan G Komen's support for Planned Parenthood.
Therefore we are pleased to report that funding has stopped.

http://www.thechurchreport.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=siteContent.default&objectID=148289"

'via Blog this'

Investigating Universal Objective Justification

2012-02-01T10:49:00.003-06:00

Comment Link: http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=4190#comment-279655
Author: Joe Krohn

Comment:

In January of 2011, a WELS pastor preached that our sins were forgiven before we were born; before we heard the Word of God; before our Baptisms. He stated during discussions that before we do anything, God has forgiven us. We challenged this teaching. We received many of the same ruinations that are prevalent here in defense of UOJ. So you see this is a big problem. It will eventually go one of two ways. Either it will morph into full fledged universalism, or go back to the way Scripture and the Confessions speak of one Justification (the promise of forgiveness) that comes through faith, by Grace for Christ’s sake; as it has been since the fall of man in the garden.

The key to understanding justification is where the righteousness of Christ resides and how it is distributed. It is on Christ objectively FOR (not on) the world and becomes OURS (imputation) through faith by a hearing of the Word of God by the power of the Holy Spirit.

BTW…we were excommunicated for our confession and told we were in need of repentance. When we asked what commandment we broke, we were given no answer and told it was a fellowship issue. Excommunication is reserved for the unwillingness to repent for breaking the Law of God…the Ten Commandments.

***

GJ - The Unsteady Lutheran Enthusiasts ended up with a good discussion on their hands, because a wide variety defended the historical Christian faith instead of bowing to the UOJ bullies.

Jack Kilcrease--trained by ELCA, employed by Roman Catholics to teach religion to papists--gave away his profound ignorance of Lutheran theology by his repeated references to "the doctrine of Objective Justification." David Scaer and Paul McCain think he is the bomb.

The Lutheran Reformers avoided such terminology as "the doctrine of..." There is only one doctrine, a unified truth - in harmony with the entire witness of the Sacred Scriptures. Writing about "doctrines" in the plural suggests a modular view of Christianity, where some units can be changed, others dropped, and still others added.

That is exactly what happened in the aftermath of the Reformation. Calvinist influence merged the atonement with justification, first with Samuel Huber, who was rebuked and sent packing. Huber would be a Synod President today in the LCMS, WELS, or ELS.

The second wave of Calvinism came in the form of Spener's union efforts. The merging of atonement and justification came in the form of double justification, first taught by Georg Christian Knapp and later by F. Schleiermacher. Knapp, Schleiermacher, and Tholuck (Hoenecke's mentor)--all three at Halle--were pivotal figures in Protestant theology.

Ottomar Fuerbringer, Father of
Ludwig Fuerbringer, Father of
Fibby
Missouri Lutherans know how significant the Fuerbringer family was. Ottomar came over with the syphilitic bishop and married the widow of C. F. W. Walther's brother. Ludwig Fuerbringer was born of that union, became the senior pastor at Frankenmuth, after his father, and later professor and president of Concordia Seminary, St. Louis. Ludwig's son Fibby was the president of the seminary who turned the campus over to the liberals, leading to Tietjen and Seminex (the first gay Lutheran seminary, chaired by Jungkuntz, from WELS).

Ottomar Fuerbringer was trained as a pastor but could not get a call in Europe because he was a Pietist. The Lutheran Church in the German states was rationalistic, with little or no tolerance for "Pietists and mystics," the disparaging terms used for believers. "Old Lutheran" is a term used in America for those who rejected the extremes of revivalism - no liturgy, no creeds, transforming people's lives with the Law.

The "Old Lutherans" were not orthodox - they were cell group Pietists who kept the worship forms of the Lutheran Church while adopting the fantasy that the cell groups were the real church.

Pietism is unionism, which draws people away from Lutheran doctrine, so anyone in a cell group church is headed out of the Lutheran fold, even though the individual may remain a Lutheran in name only.

Doctrinal indifference and disparaging the Means of Grace will always lead to Unitarian-Universalism or to Pentecostalism. Many WELS pastors have gone charismatic (ironic, eh?) while others like Jungkuntz and Gerke have gone Unitarian-Universalist.

More Ugliness from the UOJ Squadron

2012-01-31T23:34:00.002-06:00

LutherQuest (sic)

Mike,
I don’t know Pastor Rydecki personally, but some of what I’ve read by him makes me sad. For instance, recently on Steadfast Lutherans he made the following comments in regard to OJ.
He wrote:

quote:
“The remission of sins is not proclaimed to the sinner as a past reality for all which must be appropriated individually. Instead, remission of sins is promised to the sinner on the basis of the satisfaction Christ made for sin. Christ with his perfect righteousness and satisfaction is the object of faith.”

And:

quote:
“I haven’t seen a clear Scripture passage that states that God ever absolved the world of sin, or that the sins of the world have been remitted – although they have certainly all been paid for!”

They might as well have given the award to Dr. Jackson. This is no different than what Jackson teaches.

In the first quote he denies that the sins of the entire world have been remitted [forgiven] objectively, and he says that it is the Atonement that is the object of faith.

In the second quote he says he knows of no Scripture passage stating that God has absolved the sins of the entire world.

First, the object of our faith is not something like; “Jesus died for me and if I believe that, God will credit it to me as righteousness”. It sounds very pious to say that; "Christ with his perfect righteousness and satisfaction is the object of faith”, but our faith is not merely in the Atonement. The object of our faith is God’s promise that He laid all of our sin upon Christ, damned Christ for them, and absolved Christ of them. The payment has not only been made, but has been accepted. The unmerciful servant was forgiven. This was not contingent upon his believing it. And, although he did not believe it, and was put in prison, the forgiveness was real.

Second, I know of no clearer passage of Scripture which states this than that which says; “Behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world”.

***

GJ - The post used an award given to another pastor as an excuse to make some nasty guilt-by-association remarks. Rev. Rydecki's statements, as quoted, agree with the Book of Concord and the Scriptures. Those are the two norms.

I always put (sic) after LutherQuest because they have no comprehension of Luther's doctrine, his Biblical exegesis, or the the Confessions.

The LQ errors were addressed by Luther and in the next generation by P. Leyser and the Wittenberg faculty ( against Samuel Huber).

"Behold the Lamb of God" is not the absolution of the entire world.

LQ is full of nastiness. It is a skunk patch, as one pastor described it. Paul McCain could not get away with his tactics on a serious website, so he posts on LQ now. The UOJ Stormtroopers attack one another too.

The award mentioned in the post has nothing to do with me. I never read their Gottesdienst periodical or blog or whatever else they have. I have never met Rydecki. As far as I can tell,. the award was for setting up a discussion blog, something LQ has failed to accomplish.

One prominent ELS member said, "I read LQ for laughs."

A Lutheran observer said, "Are they all crazy or just stupid. I cannot believe what they post."

---

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "More Ugliness from the UOJ Squadron":

Dave Schumacher wrote on Lutherquest: "First, the object of our faith is not something like; “Jesus died for me and if I believe that, God will credit it to me as righteousness”."

Christ declared in Romans 3:22, "Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:"

Jim Pierce and Jack Kilcrease made the same confessions attacking Christ in the BJS thread.

***

GJ - The value of those discussions is bringing out what they really believe and also what they reject with a passion. Buchholz claimed that no one taught Universalism in WELS, even though he sent me the link to his Universalistic convention essay, which ELS Stormtrooper Jay Webber commended.

John Shep ran Thoughts of Faith, ELS, and joined ELCA.
Jay Webber defended Roger Kovaciny being the bagman for Floyd Luther Stolzenburg's Masonic church.
UOJ is so flexible when it comes to the Ten Commandments.

Churchmouse Campanologist

2012-01-31T21:55:00.001-06:00

No wonder people are depressed.

Churchmouse Campanologist:

"Mainline Protestant denominations can also create problems with their interpretations of the Bible, depriving people of deriving much-needed comfort and reassurance from it. Some Catholic theologians are also guilty of this.

Unfortunately, pietist churches might not be helping, either. One of the comments on Johnson’s post reveals that some churchgoers blame the person suffering from depression as being unrepentant and too inactive in the life of the church. If only they would DO something, they would feel better."

'via Blog this'

Some Means of Grace Writers Are Trying To Steady the Steadfast Enthusiasts

2012-01-31T08:26:00.001-06:00

With all due respect, they don’t confuse me. They used to, but it was Robert Preus’ book “Justification and Rome” that was foundational in getting me to think and teach in terms that the Book of Concord uses to describe Justification.

Are you sure I’m really free not to use them? The terms “heresy” and “heretic” have flown around a little too loosely when this topic comes up.

Walther’s admonition is one to take to heart: “Bear this in mind, dear friends . . . it is your duty not only to believe as the Church believes, but also to speak in harmony with the Christian Church.” (Law and Gospel, 276-277) The vocabulary of the church I swore to uphold is the Book of Concord. So, thank you for the affirmation that I am free not to use the terms “Objective” and “Subjective” when teaching the doctrine of Justification! Not everyone feels that way.
Rev. James Schulz

---

If I may respond from the Anti-UOJer side of things.

We know the answer to those questions and the answer proves UOJ is a concept filled with fallacy.
In fact, when you ask “Can I be saved”? According to C F W Walther, your question is ill formed, you should not be even asking if you “can be saved”. Because YOU ARE ALREADY even before you believe whatever it is you want to believe.

Here is a quote from http://www.franzpieper.com/ quoting Walther.

C.F.W. Walther wrote in 1868: “…you often hear pastors preach, ‘You are saved if you believe.’ What they should be saying is, ‘You are saved so that you might believe.“

Jack says that UOJ is not Christianized Universalism.

Don’t you guys in the US have a saying, if anything walks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck it is a duck? See Mk 16:16.
LPC

---

The forgiveness exists *in Christ*, because it is Christ who earned that forgiveness by His perfect life and atoning death. That forgiveness becomes ours when we become one with Christ through Baptism/faith. What we believe in is Christ; what becomes ours is His merit.

Just because the forgiveness exists in *Christ*, it does not follow that I was forgiven (or righteous) before I was born (much less the world). The world stands condemned already because it has not believed on the name of God’s one and only Son. However, people are not condemned only for rejecting the Gospel (certainly this is a condemnable offense, but not the only offense). People are condemned because they are sinful. Otherwise, it places one in the peculiar position of explaining the eternal state of the millions and millions of people who never had an opportunity to hear the Holy Gospel.
Dan Baker

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To UOJers
We won’t go around in circles if you can provide Scriptural evidence for your UOJ theory.
I even grant to you that subjective Justification is not the issue here, because you have the fallacious advantage and the sophistic mechanism to agree with JBFAers when we speak about JBFA, so that is not the issue.

The issue and the foremost one is the declaration of the whole world as righteous ALREADY on account of the Jesus death (and to some on account of his resurrection, as per F. Pieper)
The issue is this…1932 Brief Statement Article 17.

Scripture teaches that God has already declared the whole world to be righteous in Christ, Rom. 5:19; 2 Cor. 5:18-21; Rom. 4:25

Does Romans 4:25 teach it? No, it is part of a larger context where faith is mentioned.
Does Romans 5:19 teach it? No, again see above.

Does 2 Cor 5:18-21 teach it? No, for firstly in 1 Cor 5:17, it speaks of those in Christ. Secondly, v.19 does not say that righteousness has been imputed, rather our sin has been imputed to Christ, v.19 speaks of the Atonement.

So the problem with UOJ is that it thinks when God imputed the sins of the world to Christ, right there it also meant the whole world has been declared righteous already., i.e. the righteousness of Christ was imputed to the World already.

Now, according to UOJ teaching, one must only have to believe this.

Even your precious idol C. F. W. Walther said this and I quote:
“For God has already forgiven you your sins 1800 years ago when He in Christ absolved all men by raising Him after He first had gone into bitter death for them. Only one thing remains on your part so that you also possess the gift. This one thing is—faith. And this brings me to the second part of today’s Easter message, in which I now would show you that every man who wants to be saved must accept by faith the general absolution, pronounced 1800 years ago, as an absolution spoken individually to him.”

C. F. W. Walther, The Word of His Grace, Sermon Selections, “Christ’s Resurrection—The World’s Absolution” Lake Mills: Graphic Publishing Company, 1978, p. 233. Mark 16:1-8.

So Walther teaches, Word of Faith, believe you have been absolved already and so you are. Believe you are not absolved then so you are not. You are what you believe.

Kenneth Hagin and his followers said something similar to this in regards to healing. Your healing already happened at the Cross, believe you are healed and so you will be, believe you are not healed and so you would not. If you do not get healed, your problem is your faith.

Jack [Kilcrease] specializes in missing the point. The issue is not your precious UOJ does not teach, our issue is WHAT IT DOES TEACH!
I hope you get it.
LPC

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@Daniel Baker #103
Yes Daniel,
UOJ has a mistaken, even a warped view of faith as taught by Jesus and the Apostles. They think that when one mentions faith, one is a synergist.

This was the blunder of Walther. Remember he struggled with his assurance of salvation when Bishop Stephan found him. Though Walther did not eliminate faith all together, because that would be too obvious a Scriptural teaching, what he did promote made faith superfluous.

Did Jesus or the Apostles shy away from using that word?

In fact, Jesus said strong things to people about faith. See Luke 7:50, Luke 18:42
LPC

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@Jim Pierce #101
Mr. Pierce,
I was a UOJ advocate in my early years in Lutheranism. I thought it was another way of saying the atonement not until I discovered that they were equating the atonement with justification.
In logic, this is called a category mistake, hence a fallacy.

You said But, it is certainly possible that I don’t understand what it means to say that Christ “paid for the sins of the world” and yet, all sins are not forgiven in Christ

The first procedure is to distinguish the Atonement from Justification, that is the first consideration. Just follow the procedure in high school maths, two names are not necessarily the same, i.e. an identity, unless you have evidence that they are so. Equality is to be proven not assumed.

In UOJ, they reverse the process, Equality is assumed and not proven.

The mistake of UOJers is to collapse Atonement with Justification, they assume this and they proceed to see what their assumption wishes to see.

Calvinism does this too, they collapse the Atonement with Justification but they go to the right side of that assumption, concluding that Atonement is Limited because they see Justification is limited, because they are one and the same thing. In UOJ it pulls the quality left ward, concluding that Justification is universal because Atonement is.

Thus UOJ is functional universalism despite the protestation of Jack Kilcrease that it is not.
UOJ makes one progress in its ambiguity and so it even makes one hate even the mention of faith, or pooh poohs faith, yet Jesus considered this something that He gets excited about, for after all, He is the author of faith.

Walther even said the preacher does not even have to mention faith at all in his preaching as if it is wrong if the preacher mentions it. Thus Walther went against the Apostles. For example, when the eunuch wanted to be baptized in Acts, what did Philip say? Did he say, great, lets do it. No. See Acts 8:36-38.
LPC

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http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=4190#comment-278343
Jack,

When Jackson speaks of Justification as communicating salvation, is he speaking Biblically or historically? He is speaking biblically. Which should take precedence in theological discussion, Scripture or philosophy?
Show us from Scripture that the Biblical writers equated Atonement with Justification. Is there any place in Scripture when Atonement is mentioned, God has declared the whole world already righteous, without faith, prior to faith or even prior to being born?

Few attempts were made from Waltherians like you to address challenge from Scripture citing Romans 4:25 but they miserably fail because no reputable exegete would sign his name and say that was the justification of the world, except perhaps from LC-M-ess.

The terminology and concept of UOJ whether originated, borrowed or stolen was foreign to Scripture and the Confessions. One thing for sure, it did not come from orthodox old Lutheran Concordians. In fact you have to cite 19th century of how the word justification is taken differently.

Your argument against this does not work in your favor but actually digs you in a hole because you are admitting it did not come from Scripture nor from the Concordian writers themselves.

UOJ was promoted by your fathers below – C F W Walther , originated by Samuel Huber and aided by the Halle Pietists.

C F W Walther was really like Calvin, he borrowed ideas and stamped them as if it was his own. He wanted to be peculiar and genius. This is the sad mark of Calvinism. Guess what Huber was a Reformed pastor turned Lutheran but he never got rid of his philosophical paradigm. Walther was the same, he was Pietistic and he never got rid of the separation of the Means of Grace with Justification.

In UOJ every one starts off as already forgiven since the Cross. You get unforgiven if you do not believe you are forgiven and you are forgiven if you believe you already are.

What is this but Word of Faith theology.

Mr. Pierce,

You often quote what St John the Baptist said about Jesus the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and so, no more sin.

Yet in John 5:34 this is what Jesus said…

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

In UOJ therefore, faith in justification IS justification.

Yet in Scripture, as said by Jesus, faith IN Him is Jusitfication.

This is a world of difference.

LPC

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Daniel Baker makes an important objection to the teaching of UOJ.

Dr. Kilcrease states, “When a preacher says things that are conditional, he is always speaking law-words. When a preacher says “if you believe, you will be forgiven.” Or “just believe” this is law, even if he’s talking about salvation. These words will not create faith because they are conditional law-statements.” And, “Other doctrinal formulations turn gospel-statements into law statements: “If you believe, then you are saved.”
This is contrary to Scripture where Christ declares in Acts 16:31, “And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.”

UOJ teaches that Christ is using the Law here but He is not. Christ is declaring the Gospel.

But according to UOJ Christ was declaring the Law when he declared in Romans 10:9, “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

This is not a teaching faithful to Scripture and the Confessions. Dr. Kilcrease and the doctrine of UOJ confess that Christ’s statements above are Law because they attribute faith as a work of man. Since faith is solely the gracious work of the Holy Ghost who only works through the Word purely taught the declarations are pure Gospel.

Brett Meyer

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@Dr. Jack Kilcrease #104
Dr. Kilcrease,

“A number of points need to be clarified for all of us. So let’s break it down. First, here’s rules of preaching: When a preacher says things that are conditional, he is always speaking law-words. When a preacher says “if you believe, you will be forgiven.” Or “just believe” this is law, even if he’s talking about salvation. These words will not create faith because they are conditional law-statements. The human mind under sin hears these words, it will then try to work itself into faith, convince itself that it has achieved it, and feel good at having done a good work. The only statements that create faith are gospel-statements which promise Christ and his benefits unconditionally. The point is using the terminology of objective justification is that they safe-guards the preacher being able to make unconditional gospel-statements. Other doctrinal formulations turn gospel-statements into law statements: ‘If you believe, then you are saved.’”

Thank you for the attempted clarification. However, when contrasted to the actual examples and preaching of the Apostles, I think it falls short. I would be interested in hearing your response to the citations and argument I asserted in my previous post. The “human minds” of the crowd St. Peter preached to in Acts 10 didn’t try to “work themselves” into faith; to the contrary, St. Peter said “believe in Christ and you will receive forgiveness,” and lo, while he was still speaking they received the Holy Spirit (and thus forgiveness)!
“Also, to clear the air, objective justification does not teach the following things:

1. That everyone is automatically saved. (pronouncing and receiving are different things. This is fairly obvious).
2. That God’s forgiveness is not mediated through the means of grace. (God’s declaration though already actualized as objective and universal in eternity, is mediated through the means of grace, and communicated to faith. It is not communicated apart from them- this is a key distinction).
3. That faith is unnecessary for the reception of Christ and his benefits. (Again, reception and communication are different than actualization).

So, if the conversation is going to go forward and not just go in circles, those who reject Objective justification need to stop asserting that some how we are claiming these things. We have repeated stated that we do not hold these things and neither, in light of our description of what OJ is can you really claim that these things are the implication of our claim.”

I do not recall asserting that Universal Justification advocates make any of these claims. Whether or not the doctrine of Objective Justification lends credibility to any of these three points is another matter entirely, but we can agree that the doctrine does not, as currently posited, advocate any of the three enumerated points.
Daniel Baker

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Hi, Jim! Please don’t take any of my words as a “charge” against you or anyone. This is a good and important discussion.

I haven’t seen a clear Scripture passage that states that God ever absolved the world of sin, or that the sins of the world have been remitted – although they have certainly all been paid for! I think it’s the modern failure to distinguish between the payment and the absolution (based on the payment) that has muddied the waters. And to speak of absolution apart from the Means of Grace is simply not known in the Scriptures. If we stick to the language of Scripture, we’ll be fine. “God so loved the world…” Great! “Christ bore the sins of the world.” Wonderful! “He is the propitiation for…the sins of the world.” Wonderful! “God pronounced absolution upon the world.” Where is that written?

The forensic nature of justification is, in fact, opposed to objective justification, as explained by Chemnitz. In order for God to justify any sinner (much less all sinners collectively!), he must see a “foreign righteousness” in them as the basis for his absolution (since they have no righteousness of their own). In other words, it is only by the imputation of the righteousness of Christ that the sinner is justified. Scripture clearly states that the righteousness of Christ is only imputed to faith.

I do appreciate the Marquart quotes, as I think very highly of him and so many things he has written and said. I don’t think he was entirely consistent with his own explanations, though, when it comes to objective justification. In one place, he defined the objective components of justification as “the grace of God, the merit of Christ and the promise of mercy for Christ’s sake.” Fine so far. But elsewhere, he adds this bit about the world’s absolution itself (apart from the means of grace) as part of the objective components of justification, with this absolution being a “perfected, past and present reality.” I think that’s going too far, and it’s not what Ap. IV explains, either.

Whenever our Confessions use the phrase (in English) “are forgiven,” it’s a present passive verb (in the Latin), not a perfect tense, not a past tense, not a stative verb (the same goes for Romans 3:24 in the Greek!). Why does God forgive sins? For the sake of Christ! When does God forgive sins? “…when they believe that they are received into favor and that their sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake” (AC:IV). Forgiveness is indeed a present-tense, forensic gift we receive from God.

And only in the following sense is it also a past reality. It is a past reality for those who have been baptized and brought to faith by the Gospel. This is what Paul says, for example, in Col. 2:11-14 (to which Ambrose is referring in his statement quoted in the Confessions), where he places our “being made alive” and our forgiveness at the time when we received the “circumcision done by Christ,” that is, in our Baptism. Baptism is such a glorious thing that it sends us back to the cross and to the tomb with Christ, and then, of course, out of the tomb as well. This is why the Apology so often equates justification with regeneration, and why Paul also places our justification in connection with our baptism in Titus 3 and Romans 6.

The fact is, we have all the objective truth necessary for our faith to rest securely in the plain reading of the Scriptures without adding all of our philosophical elaborations.

If we want a concise but thorough Lutheran definition of “justification,” I think this one from Chemnitz is the best I’ve ever seen, and I don’t think we can simply dismiss it as “merely referring to subjective justification.” This is how the 16th Century Lutherans understood justification in the “article of justification”:

The meaning of the word “justify” in this article is judicial, namely, that the sinner, accused by the Law of God, convicted, and subjected to the sentence of eternal damnation, fleeing in faith to the throne of grace, is absolved for Christ’s sake, reckoned and declared righteous, received into grace, and accepted to eternal life. (Chemnitz’ Examination of the Council of Trent, Vol. 1, p.474)
Paul Rydecki

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Team Jeske - they are the wolves.
They start their meetings, "Let us prey."

GoPack has left a new comment on your post "Some Means of Grace Writers Are Trying To Steady t...":

"Session Title: Wolves in Sheep’s Clothing-The Pathological Antagonists in our Midst

Presenter: John Johnson [one of the founders of Church and Chicanery]

This session is designed to help you recognize wolves, understand what drives their hunger, and learn how to keep them from forming a “pack” at your work or church. These wolves, sometimes known as “clergy killers,” have an underlying agenda to discredit and take down a leader. They always claim the best intentions, but build coalitions against the leader behind his back. Therefore, having authentic Christian brothers around you is even more critical today than ever before. Learn to protect yourself and your brothers. The Kingdom of God is at stake." http://www.menofhisword.org/?page_id=113

AKA watch out for anyone who doesn't agree with our approach to ministry!

Abraham - The Father of All Them That Believe

2012-01-31T06:39:00.000-06:00

KJV Romans 4:3 For what saith the Scripture? Abraham believed God,
and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the Scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised. 13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. 18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:

20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of
God.

King James Version

VirtueOnline - News - Exclusives - PHILADELPHIA: Fr. Moyer Denied Pathway to Papal-driven Ordinariate

2012-01-30T22:29:00.001-06:00

VirtueOnline - News - Exclusives - PHILADELPHIA: Fr. Moyer Denied Pathway to Papal-driven Ordinariate:

"Moyer's fortunes have been tied to those of TAC Australian Archbishop John Hepworth as Moyer was consecrated a bishop in the TAC in 2006 by Hepworth, a move that many Episcopalians and Anglicans seriously questioned and actively discouraged."

'via Blog this'

Two Discount Options on Lulu. Note the Deadlines

2012-01-30T21:39:00.002-06:00

Until February 3rd, 2012
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/martinchemnitzpress

Until January 31st, tomorrow.
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/martinchemnitzpress

This is where to order.

My 2012 project is to move all titles to Amazon and increase the e-book selection. I also have help from additional editors and contributors.

St. Paul Obliterates the UOJ Arguments

2012-01-30T20:04:00.001-06:00

Michelangelo's Conversion of St. Paul

St. Paul Comments on Justification by Faith

2012-01-30T20:00:00.001-06:00

Michelangelo - The Conversion of St. Paul.

Pietism in America today: the Emergents and the Purpose Driven Church « Churchmouse Campanologist

2012-01-30T17:59:00.001-06:00

Pietism in America today: the Emergents and the Purpose Driven Church « Churchmouse Campanologist: "A couple of weeks ago, news appeared in the blogosphere that the well-known Baptist pastor John Piper and the Roman Catholic Lectio Divina proponent Beth Moore appeared recently at the Passion 2012 Conference in Atlanta, Georgia. (H/T: Anna Wood)"

'via Blog this'

***

GJ - The Jeske group (Church and Change) is deliberately pursuing this fad, and no one will stand up to them. The reason? - C and C already controls the schools, the magazine, and the Synod President.

The Real Presence

2012-01-30T15:54:00.000-06:00

The Real Presence of Christ in Holy Communion is effected by the Holy Spirit at work in the Word.

All of God's work takes place exclusively through His Word, and the Holy Spirit never works apart from the Word.

Justification, the declaration of our forgiveness, takes place through the Word of the Gospel. This forgiveness is received in faith.

WELS Church Lady Defeats Jack Kilcrease with One Quotation

2012-01-30T14:41:00.004-06:00

WELS church lady has left a new comment on your post "The Purpose of Web Discussions - Censorship - Acco...":

Galatians Chapter 3:

8"And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, IN THEE SHALL ALL NATIONS BE BLESSED."

14"That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."

22"But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe." 23"But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed." 24"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith."

25"But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster." 26"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ."

In Christ,
Rebecca

***

GJ - I quoted from Robert Preus' final book and poor Jack Kilcrease used that as an excuse to make some more mocking comments. He did not deal with the content of the quotations because he could not.

I posted Rebecca's citation on Steadfast Enthusiasts. They cannot act like men, so they will have to be schooled by a woman.

I appreciate the discernment of the laity. The clergy have a burden in getting past the training they have had. Theories are proposed--which are bad enough--but worst of all is the pressure to conform when everyone is repeating the same fallacies.

UOJ was so foreign to me that I thought they were using "Objective Justification" as a synonym for the atonement. Laity alerted me to the facts and kept me working on the topic.

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LPC has left a new comment on your post "WELS Church Lady Defeats Jack Kilcrease with One Q...":

We do well to refer to that blog site as Steadfast Enthusiasts or Steadfast Universalists or Steadfast Waltherians.

LPC

Walther the Divider

2012-01-30T09:01:00.000-06:00

Walther divided Lutherans
and worked to create his own myth.

I keep reading early LCMS history. I have a pile of books I am sending to another researcher. The official LCMS books remind me of Mormon and Roman Catholic devotionals. Nevertheless, history has a way of leaving behind crucial details.

One detail is the incredible closeness of the pioneers and how they protected themselves from scandal and prison by keeping the secrets. C. F. W. Walther's brother married one Buenger sister and Ferdinand married another one. Walther's brother died and Ferdinand took his call in St. Louis. Ludwig Fuerbringer's father married the Walther widow, which made Ferdinand his uncle. The Buenger family was directly involved in the kidnapping of Walther's niece and nephew, which was illegal. The mother was kept in prison for a time, thanks to the Walther brothers. She is the mother of the Walther/Fuerbringer brides.

Walther left early to escape arrest warrants for the kidnapping. Mrs. Buenger was also involved in the Walther-led riot against Bishop Stephan. The Missouri devotionals lie about Stephan's adultery being discovered suddenly in a confession and acted up with great haste and bravery by Ferdinand. Zion on the Mississippi concedes that everyone knew Stephan was an adulterer in Europe. The bishop brought his mistress over, but not his wife and children (except his healthy son). The big riot was not caused by adultery exposed but by an outbreak of syphilis in the Saxon group.

Ludwig wrote two books about the origins of the LCMS, but skipped over the first years. He did reveal that the valuable chalice used at Uncle Ferdinand's congregation was a personal gift to Bishop Stephan. That means Walther gloried in using a stolen chalice for Holy Communion. Of course, Missouri denies this fact, but there it is in Fuerbringer's book.

On the basis of a four-year degree from Leipzig, Walther made himself the one and only theologian of Synodical Conference, the Field Marshal of the Lutheran Church of North America. Everyone had to agree with his rationalistic-Pietistic opinions. America was so far gone into the Olde Church Growth Movement (revivalism) that Walther seemed Lutheran to many, in comparison. Many good things were done by the Missouri Synod to advance Luther and Lutheran theology, but it was not as glorious as people pretend.

Walther kept Lutherans apart by denouncing everyone outside his franchise as false teachers. He broke up the Old Synodical Conference, driving away many different groups instead of allowing unifying discussions.

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LPC has left a new comment on your post "Walther the Divider":

Walther kept Lutherans apart by denouncing everyone outside his franchise as false teachers. He broke up the Old Synodical Conference, driving away many different groups instead of allowing unifying discussions

This is typical of a cultic person. He persecuted those who did not agree with him and bad mouthed them. People did not agree with him because he was wrong but rather than admitting and receiving the correction, he branded those who corrected him as false teachers. He had prided himself as the champion of pure doctrine. This is what a cultic person does.

You know how I have believed that he was responsible for the fragmentation of American Lutheranism.

He was given too much power by his people and he was a legend in his own mind.

LPC

***

GJ - Yes, Dr. Cruz. You can see the Walther template at work among the Unsteady Lutherans. An ELCA trained "Lutheran" writes from the Roman Catholic college where he teaches religion, and he declares, "Do not listen to Meyer and Jackson."

Walther was ruthless from the beginning. His unethical, bizarre behavior began with the kidnapping of his niece and nephew from his father's parsonage. He involved his future mother-in-law in the felonies, and she was put in prison. But Mrs. Buenger was not allowed to sail with the Saxons because that might have hurt their image. One can imagine their image. They were attacked in the press at home and in St. Louis.

Walther resigned his call when he left for America, but he still called himself the pastor of that parish when he pledged obedience to Bishop Stephan and again, when he forced Stephan out with a riot five months later. A man is not the pastor of that church when he has resigned his call. Walther was not a Waltherian.

Walther defrauded the bishop by stealing back the landed given to Stephan. That was another felony. He changed the title while secretly plotting to remove Stephan, using the Buenger family once again. Did he confront the bishop? No, he avoided the bishop, although the cover story was that he suddenly knew about the adultery from a confession offered up by two women. The defense of his action is even more perverted than violating the seal of the confessional. He did not violate any confidentiality because "everyone knew Stephan was an adulterer." I suppose leaving Europe with a mistress and without a wife was one clue. Perhaps Stephan's trial and house arrest in Dresden were additional clues. Living with his mistress at the spa, in the same room? Late night walks with young ladies? Cell group meetings in odd places? Groups in Dresden and in St. Louis?

Walther took over leadership of the Saxons at the Altenburg debate and by accepting his brother's congregational call after his co-felon died. Both happened at about the same time.

Walther's ruthlessness and dishonesty have been duplicated many times over by Synodical Conference leaders. Lying is considered good management. Bullying people and threatening pastors is considered good form, especially when overlooking the gross immorality of special pals and big donors.

The Purpose of Web Discussions - Censorship - According to Roman Catholic Employee Jack Kilcrease - Paul McCain's Peritus

2012-01-30T08:37:00.000-06:00

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

Steadfast Enthusiasts

Those of you who arguing with Jackson and Meyer, my suggestion would be that you simply ignore them. I’ve had this debate with them, and they have a pathological need to not understand the doctrine of objective justification. Jackson’s claim is that the word “justification” always means “to communicate salvation.” Historically, when Lutherans started to use this terminology in the 19th century, they used the term “justification” to mean both the declaration of forgiveness (objective justification) and the reception and communication of salvation through faith (subjective justification). The point of objective justification is that the Father has a reaction to the Son’s universal atonement- that is, he offers a universal word of forgiveness that is already actualized. The word of the gospel is already an actualized reality prior to my apprehension of it in faith. Hence, the preacher does not says “if you believe, then you will be forgiven” (this would be law), but “you are forgiven.” Of course, no one says that one does not need to receive this by faith- the point is that my faith does not make God justify me. Rather faith receives an already actualized reality.

As much as people explain this to Jackson and his followers, they refuse to accept that there are terminological distinctions at work here. They therefore insist that people who accept the orthodox doctrine objective justification are teaching universalism. This is because they claim that even though their opponents state otherwise, they must always be talking about the communication of salvation when they speak of justification (even when they directly tell them that they are not!). Jackson and Meyer believe that words always mean the same thing in every context. As everyone knows, this is obviously false. They then theorizes that when people do corrupt things in the Lutheran church bodies in America, it’s because they think they’re already forgiven (because everyone in the WELS, ELS, and LCMS are secret universalists) and therefore can do whatever they want. As I think we can all agree, this is a fairly problematic line of reasoning (to say the least). Nonetheless, they will never give it up because it is so central to their worldview. It gives them an easy explanatory model for voicing what they think is wrong with American Lutheranism.

Therefore, I would suggest no one respond to them, and they will leave pretty quickly. They’ve poisoned the discourse on a number of websites, and I hate for them to wreck this one.

***

GJ - McCain and Kilcrease would like to silence the justification-by-faith message. I do not keep track of Brett Meyer's publishing, but I seldom bother with other blogs or websites. Kilcrease seems to be imagining things. Lapdogs have a way of snarling at anyone who approaches the one who feeds them.

I appreciate the censorship efforts, Jack, because you transform required reading into forbidden reading. Nothing kills interest faster than "you have to read this." Nothing drives up interest faster than "avoid this site at all costs."

Most telling is the way every Stormtrooper avoids Robert Preus' repudiation of UOJ in Justification and Rome. That was where I suspected that the post-Concord theologians were arguing against an early UOJ opinion - and they were. P. Leyser (Book of Concord editor) and the Wittenberg faculty rejected Samuel Huber's everyone-is-forgiven falsehood. A researcher tells me there is another, earlier example as well.

All the heresies, according to Luther, are in three groups:

Attacking the divinity of Christ.
Attacking the humanity of Christ.
Attacking justification by faith.

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LPC has left a new comment on your post "The Purpose of Web Discussions - Censorship - Acco...":

Jack has the pathological need not to understand justification by faith alone.

So each time he turns, there is always a Scripture that bites him in the face.

Goodness, his exegetical skills are quite appalling.

Notice how he argues historically in a fallacious way. He said that this UOJ terminology was started in the 19th century. With out admitting it, he then by default gave an argument that it is a later innovation.

LPC

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LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "The Purpose of Web Discussions - Censorship - Acco...":

Did you catch Pastor Rydecki's comments late this afternoon? They were stellar...

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LPC has left a new comment on your post "The Purpose of Web Discussions - Censorship - Acco...":

Joe,

Absolutely. Pr. Paul's comments were precious, polite but uncompromising.

That discussion provided a lot of excitement today.

LPC

***

GJ - One must assume the constant repetition of UOJ talking points. However, if justification by faith and the Means of Grace are given some visibility, some will take notice.

Kilcrease reminds me of the Prinz Eugen. He appears to be charging into battle, but he is really blowing smoke and retreating.

The academic hirelings like to parade their philosophical discussions, but their chattering is never edifying and seldom Biblical. Given some philosophical training, any academic can spin a yarn around any passage. I have noticed that almost all laity speak the language of the Bible and the Confessions. The pastors who do have struggled with the issues and overcome the limitations of their training.

In the LCA we did not pay any attention to the Book of Concord. We all owned one but that was it. I began to study the Confessions as I left the LCA, but the Columbus pastors really threw me into the briar patch of Lutheran doctrine. That was my Harvard and Yale, learning how supposed Lutherans could embrace UOJ and Church Growth while calling themselves "confessional" and "conservative."

A synodical conference pastor has to overcome training that assumed all synodical writers were infallible, Holy Mother Synod indefectible. The Preus family cannot concede that Robert Preus continued to study the issues and repudiated UOJ in his final book. Their dancing around the facts is similar to Carson Kressley in Dancing with the Stars, flashy and funny at the same time.

VirtueOnline - News - Exclusives - Episcopal Blogger Spins Fleeing Episcopalians to Rome Via Ordinariate

2012-01-29T17:54:00.001-06:00

VirtueOnline - News - Exclusives - Episcopal Blogger Spins Fleeing Episcopalians to Rome Via Ordinariate:

The drift of Episcopalians to the Roman Catholic Church via the Ordinariate is worrying some liberal Episcopal bloggers and ordinary Episcopalians who see the move getting more cyber ink and publicity than the flight deserves.

"Thus far, 100 priests and fewer than 1,400 people in 22 church communities have expressed an interest in the ordinariate. Gather them all in Washington National Cathedral, and the place isn't half full. Only six of these 22 communities have more than 70 members, which suggests that their long-term viability may be an issue. And there is no evidence to suggest that these small congregations are the thin edge of an as yet invisible wedge," writes Jim Naughton of Episcopal Café blog.

He is partly right. Most Anglo-Catholics and those in the Continuing Movement are not fleeing en masse to Rome as a safe haven for their catholicism, preferring to remain in TEC (though that group is rapidly diminishing.) or Forward in Faith, the Anglo-Catholic wing of TEC that is still very much alive and well. Forward in Faith North America defines itself as "a fellowship of Bishops, Clergy, Laity, Parishes and Religious Orders, who embrace the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who uphold the Evangelical Faith and Catholic Order which is the inheritance of the Anglican Way, and who work, pray and give for the reform and renewal of the Church with 'no compromise of truth and no limitation of love' FiF/NA members include faithful Anglicans both within and outside ECUSA."

The prominence the ordinariate has achieved in the media has unsettled some Episcopalians. "As a denomination, we are still recovering from several years worth of news stories in which the departure of some three percent of our membership for a more theologically conservative body has been variously described as a 'schism' or an 'exodus,'" writes Naughton.

"This story has appeared in major newspapers across the country, often accompanied by commentary about the Vatican's bold move against the theologically liberal Episcopal Church. I am still trying to figure out what all of the fuss is about."

Naughton goes on to cite dubious figures that the departures both to Rome and the ACNA are but a small percentage of the whole.

He features the bogus figure of some 2, 248,000 members in The Episcopal Church when referencing those who have fled. The truth is most of those have long ago left TEC for other churches or going nowhere or who are dead and have never been taken off the rolls. The real and only figure is Average Sunday Attendance (ASA). That figure is now less than 700,000. These are the true Episcopalians paying parish, diocesan and TEC bills.

Naughton claims that some 228,000 former Roman Catholics are now in the Episcopal Church. What he doesn't say is that those who left TEC for Rome did so out of spiritual conviction, whereas those fleeing Rome did so more because they divorced and remarried but could not receive Holy Communion and could not get annulments. Many view The Episcopal Church as Catholic Lite.

"According to the 2004 U. S. Congregational Life Survey, 11.7 percent of Episcopalians were formerly Roman Catholic," writes Naughton. But that is out of 700,000 not 2.2 million.

One conservative blogger, Christopher Johnson noted that Episcopalians were fleeing to Rome decades before the Ordinariate was a gleam in the papal eye. "See if the American Catholic church has any figures about the number of ex-Episcopalians in its ranks," he writes.

Naughton admits that the Episcopal Church has shrunk some in the last seven years, and now has about two million members. Membership yes, actively Episcopalian no. Most of those are not remotely active and most no longer attend an Episcopal Church. The figure is less than 700,000. Naughton's own diocese is in free fall both in membership and money with the new bishop busy suing PNC bank to get its hands on the Soper Fund to keep the diocese afloat.

The 1500 he cites leaving TEC for Rome, and other mainstream denominations might be miniscule, but it doesn't include the thousands of ordinary Episcopalians who have quietly left TEC for Rome over the years, like my attorney and his wife who do not show up on any statistics. The Ordinariate is only months old after all.

He also omitted the fact that four, yes four bishops have left TEC and gone to Rome (with one returning) indicating that the theological Tsunami is deeper than he is prepared to admit.

Then of course there are the 100,000 plus who have left TEC to form the Anglican Church in North America (ACNA) through such intermediary groups as the Diocese of Pittsburgh, CANA ET AL.

"There is no reason to fear the Ordinariate. Its creation is among the most overhyped religion stories of recent years. Some people swim the Tiber. Some swim the Thames. Media coverage suggests that reporters pay little attention until the Vatican tells them it's a big story," writes Naughton.

Again this is a half-truth. TEC has little to fear from these small groups departing. The bigger picture is the flight of TEC's parishes and parishioners to the AMIA and ACNA that continue to grow almost weekly. ACNA is working toward 1,000 new parishes and more than 100,000 new souls, most, for the moment, are ex-Episcopalians with or without their properties.

When the flight of all those in dioceses like Quincy, Pittsburgh, Ft. Worth and San Joaquin is added up the departures will be significant. They will leave behind skeleton Episcopal dioceses stripped of everything except empty buildings they cannot sell which they now have to maintain and pay taxes on. The Diocese of Pittsburgh has lost two-thirds of its entire membership. What sort of future does that diocese have in the Rust Belt? The rump diocese of Quincy cannot possibly last and will be forced to juncture in the coming year.

The newly anointed Bishop Eric Menees of the Diocese of San Joaquin is on the spiritual warpath for new souls and a revived diocese with increased evangelical fervor. The maintenance attitude of dwindling TEC dioceses shows little interest in evangelism preferring the bromides of inclusion and diversity to sustain them.

Naughton says that the 100 priests who have applied to join the Ordinariate is not evidence that the Catholic Church is winning priests from the Episcopal tradition. According to the Church Pension Group, 432 living Episcopal priests have been received from the Roman Catholic Church.

Be that as it may, a former Roman Catholic priest, now a TEC Bishop in the Diocese of Long Island, Lawrence C. Provenzano is showing absolutely no ability to grow his diocese. He has bought into TEC's liberal agenda and says he will let priests in Brooklyn, Queens and on Long Island officiate at same-sex weddings. That is the kiss of death spiritually and ecclesiastically for his diocese. It will only distance himself and his diocese from the Roman Catholic mainstream on Long Island. Even the Bishop of Albany, Bill Love, an ex-Roman Catholic, who is thoroughly orthodox, is finding it difficult to bring new converts into TEC in the bleak Adirondack region. It is tough pickin's all the way round, and he IS busy promoting ALPHA and Bible reading in his diocese.

The truth is the net effect of Bishop Gene Robinson's consecration in 2003 has caused shock waves around the US and across the Anglican Communion tearing the fabric of the Communion and no amount of spin can or will change that. The consecration more recently of an openly non-celibate lesbian in Mary Glasspool only tossed gasoline on an already raging fire.

The bottom line is that the Ordinariate is one small but increasing demonstration of a widening crack in the fabric of TEC that is only expanding with time. Nothing it seems can stop it.

END

'via Blog this'

Fox Valley Jimmy Flips His Wig, Reveals His Excellent WELS Training

2012-01-29T15:52:00.002-06:00

WELS clergy are so fierce...when they can hide their identities.
They have mouse hearts and mouse parts.

Fox Valley Jimmy said anonymously on the anonymous blog... [GJ - Graded, D-]

Anonymous- Bear in mind that the book of Mormon is also free. The WELSleadership doesn't want to talk with you [avoid using you, which is conversational slang] about UOJ because it's a moronicdebate. No one who uses the phrase "objective justification" believes inuniversalism- because they're [Keep pronouns consistent] not using the word"justification" in the same way as when one talks about justificationby faith. Anyone who says otherwise is a dullard. Yes, that would includeJackson. His diatribes against UOJ is [are - subject/verb agreement] just a way of getting back at the variouschurches that got ride [This is not the correct usage of this word. Please consult adictionary for the word's definition and to find the right word for thiscontext.] of him because he was a deeply annoying person to have as apastor. This was the case: 1. Because he has a pathological need to informeveryone about how smart he is (this is fairly transparent for people who haveread even one post on his blog). 2. He divides congregations by creating atwo-tired [This is a repeated error. Please check the rest of your paper forsimilar errors.] membership. There's [there are?] his people who hang on his every word and then there's everyone else.It's like the ancient Gnostics with their distinction between true "Gnostics"and "Pististics." [new term – diabetic test?] You can observe this on his blog as well- there's the inner circlethat says everything he says is brilliant and then there's [Agreement of subject and verbproblem, plural subject, singular verb] theenemies, people who apply basic logic and a basic theological knowledge thattranscends [This is a repeated error. Please check the rest of your paper forsimilar errors.] Lenski and otherhundred-year old texts books on the Lutheran Confessions, to his moronic [overuse of moron, moronic] theological proposals, bad historical scholarship (most of which is tied upwith the brain-dead task of accumulating quotations from various sourceswithout actually analyzing them), half truths, libel, and gossip. Notice thatto stay in his good graces you can't contradict a single thing he says. Lookthrough the posts- you'll never find Meyer or the rest of them saying"Well, I disagree with you on this one point because..." [Read the 16,000+ comments again. You are wrong.] If you begin to say somethinglike that, you have to repent eventually or you become an enemy. There's anumber of examples of this I've observed down through the years. He's anincredibly insecure person and he can't stand even a small amount ofcontradiction.

***

GJ - I can tell when people are waking up to the toxic waste in Fox Valley. The anonymous blog kicks into action again, anonymously.

In fact, a layman in Milwaukee has told me that the laity are waking up to the poor leadership in WELS. They appreciated all the information about Church and Change, the stealth organization funded by WELS and organized in Fox Valley.

This is probably the only Lutheran blog with almost all comments allowed. One was quite telling, so obscene that the author apologized anonymously. (I did not publish it.) I get some spam. I also copy the rants from other locations because they are entertaining and revealing.

The truly pathetic comments stopped arriving on my blog when the writers realized I was tracking the area where they came from. They only want to write when they can hide their locations and identities. They are fierce mice who hide in their smelly lairs when the lights go on.

---

Strangely, Tim actually published this:

Anonymous said...

In the Confessions and Scripture it's pretty obvious that justification is always in a subjective sense. Justification is a declaring act. At best UOJ is false on paper but in practice some don't literally think that people in hell are saints. At worse it is a slippery slope to universalism because "where there is forgiveness of sins there is also life and salvation." I think it was Luther or someone in the Confessions who said that.

I agree with how 2138 on the linked blog (I think it was Meyer or Bruce or someone who linked it in a recent comment on Ichabod) talks about justification.

UOJ is confusing and seemingly contradictory. It shouldn't require this much pastoral care and teaching to teach the distinctions between OJ and SJ. JBFA is waaaaay more simple and is still orthodox. Forgiveness won and forgiveness distributed. It's as simple as that. No need for: forgiveness distributed (objective: because the declaration of forgiven is always subjective no matter how it's put) and forgiveness distributed again (subjective). "But if someone is unrepentant! Then God takes it back!" It's just asinine to me.

In the Spirit: Our Redeemer WELS still without leader

2012-01-29T11:55:00.001-06:00

In the Spirit: Our Redeemer still without leader:

In the spring of 2010, the pastor of Our Redeemer Lutheran Church in Madison left the ministry to take a private-sector job in the funeral-planning business.

Parishioners thought it might take a few months to replace him.

Some 575 days later, the congregation is still trying to fill the vacancy. It has issued 13 calls for pastors and received 13 rejections.

Read more: http://host.madison.com/wsj/lifestyles/faith-and-values/religion/in-the-spirit-our-redeemer-still-without-leader/article_7396fdbe-490d-11e1-9fb1-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz1ks4XCSp3

'via Blog this'

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bruce-church (http://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "In the Spirit: Our Redeemer WELS still without lea...":

WELS Answer Man said that exactly how the congregations housed the pastor was a "local matter." Now, however, that the housing market is down, no one wants to take a call and move and thus take a loss upon selling his house. So the entire call system is in gridlock due in large part to the synod's shortsightedness in not advising against selling parsonages and giving pastors allowances to buy their own houses.

By the way, our previous pastor wanted the congregation to sell the parsonage and give him an allowance for buying his own house, but thank goodness our congregation didn't even consider it for a second. That was just one bit of bad advice he gave, because he had his ear to the ground channeled whatever was the latest fad at the synod).

Of course what this means is our pastor can leave more easily and it will be harder to get another pastor, but trouble like that is par of the course in the WELS. At least our congregation isn't contributing to the problem:

WELS Answer Man on Selling the Parsonage:
http://arkiv.lbk.cc/faq/site.pl@1518cutopic_topicid69cuitem_itemid10259.htm

This is a matter to be discussed and resolved on the local level. There is no right or wrong, nor is there really a better or worse approach to meeting the housing needs of all called workers in all situations. Both have potential advantages and potential disadvantages for the called workers and for the congregation.

The Displaced Parsonage
Why more pastors are choosing housing allowances rather than parsonages, posted 11/01/1999

http://www.christianitytoday.com/cbg/1999/novdec/9y6069.html

http://www.divinitylutheran.org/history/

1990 The parsonage is sold and Pastor Henke and his family purchase their own home.

***

GJ - The easiest move is parsonage-to-parsonage. The most difficult is from a home "owned" but mortgaged, needing to get a new mortgage and buy another home. Add the difficulty of selling or renting the previous home and getting a new job for wifey, since that is now assumed.

Steadfast Lutherans Unsteady on Justification by Faith. Another Preus Stormtrooper Launched

2012-01-29T07:40:00.000-06:00

Rev. James Schulz responded to an ambiguous Andrew Preus UOJ post:

If we are going to call ourselves Confessional Lutherans, then it seems to me we ought to speak as the Confessions do about Justification. The Confessions do not use the terms “Objective” or “Subjective” when talking about Justification. Even Walther called the terms “the language of philosophers.” The terms confuse the doctrine of the atonement with the doctrine of justification.

When read in context, the Confessions – and the Scriptures! – always link the concept of “by faith” to the doctrine of justification. The Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord speaks clearly as to what is necessary for a correct definition of Justification: “…justification, in and to which belong and are necessary only the grace of God, the merit of Christ, and faith, which receives this in the promise of the Gospel, whereby the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us, whence we receive and have forgiveness of sins, reconciliation with God, sonship, and heirship of eternal life” (“The Righteousness of Faith” III:25).

***

GJ -

Andrew, a member of the Lutheran Duggar family, responded by citing "Kittle." He must have meant Kittel, a giant collection of prolix opinions about individual words in the Bible. Why cite a little Kittle, when a little Norwegian would do as well. I suggest that Andrew Preus read his grandfather's book, Justfication and Rome, where UOJ is sent into the dustbin of Pietism. The Preus clan does not like to acknowledge the clear quotations of Robert Preus against Huberism, which emerged later as UOJ.

My current read on the 19th century European situation is that Protestantism was divided between the rationalists (who dominated the state churches) and the unionistic Pietists, who merged the atonement and justification. An "Old Lutheran" in that context was someone who believed in the articles of faith, as viewed by Pietism, especially Halle University's Georg Christian Knapp. I have read many examples of 19th century writers who assumed that the atonement equaled world absolution.

---

James Aall wrote to Schulz:
With all do respect, I disagree. I do not believe the two terms pit justification against itself or justification against atonement. I believe that it explains that justification is for all. One must never doubt that Christ loves him. One must also understand that justification is received by faith and by faith alone. I do believe that Christ justified the entire world on the cross. If, however, one does not want to use the terms “objective” and “subjective” and instead atonement and justification by grace, I don’t think that is a problem. I’m not sure that there is actually a disagreement though. Do you believe that a confessional Lutheran pastor in good standing in the LCMS can teach the distinction between objective and subjective justification?

***

GJ -

Aall allowed for atonement and justification by grace. Isn't that interesting? Justification by faith is now a toxic phrase among UOJ Stormtroopers, just as Merry Christmas is among the modernists. In effect, Aall is saying that the entire world is forgiven (Brief Statement, 1932; Knapp, 1831), but to avoid justification by faith, uses justification by grace to repeat the universal absolution assumption. That is how justification by faith drops out of the thinking of these Stormtroopers, obliterating the Gospel in the name of the Gospel.

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Schulz wrote:

Re: “… Christ justified the entire world on the cross.”
Could you back that statement up with a quote from Scripture or the Confessions in context? In my reading of Scripture and the Confessions, I find that “by faith” is not very far away when the doctrine of justification is being discussed.

Whenever “objective justification” is qualified by “subjective justification” it by definition becomes “Justification by faith” effectively canceling out “objective justification.” The terms are just so foreign to the way the Scriptures, the Confessions, Luther, and Chemnitz speak. Why not just stick with the term: “Justification by faith alone?”

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Aal, shocked:

Wait! You are actually denying that Christ justified the entire world on the cross?! I didn’t know you were actually denying objective justification! “that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.” 2 Cor. 5:19. Christ first justified the entire world and we preach that justification so that it is received by faith (Rom 10:17). “Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for ALL men.” Rom 5:18. So to answer your previous question, if you can be a confessional Lutheran pastor in good standing in this synod and deny objective justification, the answer is no.

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Schulz:

I think you are saying I deny the Atonement, which is not the same thing as Justification, and which I do not deny.

Reconciliation is not the exact thing as Justification. Luther hints at this when translating 2 Corinthians 5;19, he inserts an “and,” which Paul did not have. “And did not impute their trespasses unto them.” So Luther understands a consequence of reconciliation is to be expressed.

Now we’re getting to the crux of the issue. We condemn someone who believes the Atonement, but not the term “Objective Justification.” Could that be because the terms cause the confusion?

***

GJ - The UOJ strikeforce will continue to pounce on the Lutherans, but readers can see that their broken weapons are being handed back to them.

Transfiguration Sunday - 2012. Matthew 17:1ff

2012-01-29T01:21:00.000-06:00

By Norma Boeckler

Transfiguration Sunday, 2012

Pastor Gregory L. Jackson

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/bethany-lutheran-worship

Bethany LutheranWorship, 10 AM Central Time

The Hymn #495               From Greenland’s Icy Mountains            3:23
The Confession of Sins
The Absolution
The Introit p. 16
The Gloria Patri
The Kyrie p. 17
The Gloria in Excelsis
The Salutation and Collect p. 19
The Epistle and Gradual             2Peter 1:16-21
The Gospel           Matthew 17:1-9
Glory be to Thee, O Lord!
Praise be to Thee, O Christ!
The Nicene Creed p. 22
The Sermon Hymn #135            Tis Good             3:81

Transfigured– God Incarnate

The Hymn #307 Draw Nigh 3:72

The Preface p.24
The Sanctus p. 26
The Lord's Prayer p. 27
The Words of Institution
The Agnus Dei p. 28
The Nunc Dimittis p. 29
The Benediction p. 31
The Hymn #283 God’s Word 3:90

KJV2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we madeknown unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnessesof his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, whenthere came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my belovedSon, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven weheard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sureword of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light thatshineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in yourhearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of anyprivate interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will ofman: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

KJVMatthew 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John hisbrother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And wastransfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raimentwas white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Eliastalking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is goodfor us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one forthee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 5 While he yet spake, behold, abright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, whichsaid, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 Andwhen the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were soreafraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. 9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell thevision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Sixth Sunday After Epiphany

O merciful and everlasting God, heavenly Father: We thankThee that Thou hast revealed unto us the glory of Thy Son, and let the light ofThy gospel shine upon us: We pray Thee, guide us by this light that we may walkdiligently as Christians in all good works, ever be strengthened by Thy grace,and conduct our lives in all godliness; through the same, Thy beloved Son,Jesus Christ our Lord, who liveth and reigneth with Thee and the Holy Ghost,one true God, world without end. Amen.

Transfigured– God Incarnate

The Transfiguration is universally known among Christians.More than any other event, this one showed the chosen disciples that Jesus wasGod in the flesh, God Incarnate, far beyond a teacher, or rabbi, amiracle-worker, or a prophet.

Peter already confessed, “You are the Christ, the Son of theliving God.” This event portrayed what that confession meant. And it happenedsoon after.

Matthew 17:1 And after sixdays Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up intoan high mountain apart,

Three disciples witnessed the Transfiguration. That becameimportant later when they told the others about the Transfiguration. It was notjust one or two who saw it, but three.

The resurrection was witnessed by all the apostles, and thiswas a fore-runner to that victory over sin, death, and the devil. The ministryof Jesus consisted of teaching and building up their faith.

It is sad to see faith disparaged by the “Lutheran”ministers who cling to the recent past, ignoring the Word of God and the Confessions.

The purpose of the Bible is to create faith. The Word alonecreates that faith in God, specifically trust in the love and mercy shown to usin Jesus. Trust is slowly built and deepened, but easily dampened by ouremotions, our fears.

2 And was transfigured before them: and his face didshine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Jesus changed completelybefore His three disciples. His face was as brilliant as the sun, and His robeswere shining brightly. That was one indication of His divinity.

This was not a slight changein appearance, but a complete change in form. With ultra-violet we can makesomething white glow in a supernatural way. Some rocks will glow in variouscolors when bathed in black light. But that is superficial compared to what thetext says. This was letting the divinity of Christ shine through, to give thedisciples a way to comprehend what was before them.

This glory came from theFather, for the Son always did what the Father commanded. It was not needed by Jesusbut desired for the disciples. It is another instance of showing us how thedivine nature of Christ was revealed at times but often not known and not fullyappreciated.

We are tempted to say, “Howcould they not know from one example alone?” And yet we have all the examples,the complete story, from the beginning of time until the resurrection andascension. And still we doubt and fret.

Either we doubt the divinepower to help us or we doubt the personal interest of God in us. We have soulscreated by Him. We are baptized, owned, and redeemed by Him. Each believer hasa name, and He knows us by name.

We should consider the ironyof God the Father taking the time to show three disciples, citizens of a minorcolony in the Roman Empire, the true nature of His Son. And yet He did and thisis the Gospel. The Transfiguration goes together with the Confession of Peter,the cross, and the resurrection.

It was the power behind theapostolic preaching and teaching, as Peter wrote.

2 Peter 1:16 For we have notfollowed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power andcoming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such avoice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I amwell pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we werewith him in the holy mount.

What is more important thaneye-witnesses and ear-witnesses?

The Apostle John expressedmuch of the same in his first letter.

KJV 1 John 1:1 That whichwas from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes,which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, andshew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifestedunto us;)

3 And, behold, thereappeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

Just as God revealed HisSon’s divine glory, so He revealed Moses and Elijah speaking with Jesus.

This reminds us of – “BeforeAbraham was, I AM.” Jesus is the eternal Son of God, now in flesh, active inthe Old Testament – God speaking in the burning bush, the miraculous plant withtwo natures, burning and yet not consumed. As you recall the Angel of the Lordcalled Himself God.

Moses and Elijah were themost prominent in Old Testament – Moses as the giver of the Law of God, Elijahas the prophet taken into heaven. For Jesus to speak with them meant that thedisciples were witnessing something impossible without God’s intervention. Itgave them a view of eternity itself and God’s unlimited power.

4 Then answered Peter, andsaid unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us makehere three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

Lenski:

Peter felt as though he and his fellow-disciples were verynear to heaven. Though they were filled with deep awe they felt themselves inthe presence of heavenly glory, with Jesus being glorified so unspeakably indivine majesty (2 Pet. 1:16), and two dwellers of heaven also appearing inglory (Luke 9:31). Peter’s one desire is to prolong this experience; hence hisfoolish suggestion that, if it please Jesus, he will erect three booths, onefor each of the three glorious persons. The foolishness lies in the idea thatbeings who are in such an exalted state would need shelter for the night likemen in the ordinary state of human existence. He says nothing of a shelter forthe disciples; perhaps he felt so humble that he and the other two discipleswould lie out in the open.

Lenski, R. C. H.: TheInterpretation of St. Matthew's Gospel. Minneapolis, MN. : AugsburgPublishing House, 1961, S. 657.

I have always connected the tabernacles or shelters withJewish religious observance. In one of the festivals, outdoor shelters are setup. While impulsive Peter is offering a suggestion that shows his piety, it isstrangely out of place for such an event. Mark, associated with Peter, wrotethat the apostle did not know what to say. And who would?

5 While he yet spake,behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud,which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

God the Father spoke to thedisciples, and the message is especially significant. When Jesus was baptized,the Father said – “In whom I am well pleased.”

But hear He said, “Listen toHim.” Peter referred to both occasions in his letter. One is indicated by thewords spoken, the other by the expression – the holy mount.

How do we know the Fathersent the Son? – the initial believers asked as they were being taught. Peter,James, and John answered, “Because we heard the Father’s voice from heavensaying “This is My beloved Son.”

And so we are constantlyreminded of the Trinity: the Father/Son relationship revealed by the HolySpirit.

6 And when the disciplesheard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.

I recall a church member whowas angered by the concept of fearing God. I suggested thinking of it asrespecting the unlimited power of God. There are consequences to going againstGod.

That is where I concludethat most church leaders today are unbelievers. They imagine they can do andsay anything they want, without consequences. They are not God-fearing. Theyhave forgotten the Small Catechism in rejecting the Word of God itself.

Children are like that. Theywill play around farm animals as if horses do not kick and cows do not trample.Their lack of fear is foolishness. People, in their greed, attack large powerlines, to steal the copper, because they have no respect for the amps ofelectrical power about to surge through their fragile bodies.

The moment I toy with theWord of God, to distort it or prove it wrong, I am doing the same thing as themen tearing out live power lines. There will be consequences.

On the positive side, thepower of God’s Word is so great that it can and does achieve His willconstantly. The Word of the Gospel will settle in wherever it lands, and workfaith or blindness, love of Christ or anger against the Christian faith.

I really try to avoid controversyabout religion on Facebook, in my normal conversations with people. I link Ichabodbut seldom go beyond that. However, atheists always have their fists up for afight against religion. I had two atheists in class once and they went silentwhen I said “Merry Christmas” to them. AsI mentioned recently, “Merry Christmas” made one of my classmates furious.

The power of the Gospelmeans that pronouncing us forgiven in Christ through faith gives us absolutecertainty. To a believer, that is comfort and peace. To an unbeliever, it is anirritation and a source for bickering about the Word. How can that be?

All the miraculous events ofthe Bible coalesce in showing us how such things can be true. The Holy Spiritteaches us to realize that God’s love and power make forgiveness a reality.

We have only one book in theworld where God speaks directly to us. It is His Word and He guides us as weread and study it. Augustine looked down upon the Bible as too plain, comparedto the classical literature he knew so well. One day he heard a child's voicesay "Take and read," because of a game. He picked up the Scripturesand was converted by the Holy Spirit at work in the Word. He did not debateinspiration, inerrancy, efficacy, because he knew and experienced it.

Crucial Differences

2012-01-28T21:53:00.003-06:00

Anonymous said...to Tim GlendeThe WELS wouldn't dare give me free books (shipping included) and be readily available to discuss Justification with me from an honest view of the Scriptures and Confessions.I've tried to discuss UOJ with WELS pastors before. In one case he never responded to my email (what great pastoral care for an honestly concerned layman). In other cases they just used out of context Scripture passages and S. Becker quotes.Trust me, I've had to do the research on my own to see who was right. From one side all I heard is that Greg Jackson is a heretic who is the Devil himself and on the other I hear that the entire world has been justified when Christ died and/or rose from the dead (which is a teaching that is contrary to what I've been taught Rom. 16:17).I've come to the conclusion that UOJ is a false teaching.

***

GJ - Glende actually let a comment go through that was not from his UOJ buddies.

Unlike the UOJ fanatics, I quote verbatim the opponents and give historical background for their false doctrine. Thus everyone can see both sides and read the words with their eyes. I do not have to filter the information for them. That is how Bishop James Heiser saw the falsehood of UOJ, by reading their favorite quotations, patiently gathered by the Megatron research team.

We are giving away 50 copies of Luther versus the UOJ Pietists: Justification by Faith, because people are contributing toward the cost of printing. I am happy to give away Lutheran books. We have done that in every place we lived and shipped them various places as well.

The UOJ proponents act as if their peculiar opinions are the pure Gospel, but those are the same "Lutherans" who chase after every denomination and fad for the way to be successful. If they really believed in their precious UOJ, they would not be sitting at the feet of McGavran, C. Peter Wagner, Driscoll, Sweet, Stetzer, Andy Stanley, and a host of others.

Tim Glende is hotter than Georgia asphalt for UOJ, but he had to be trained by Stanley (Stealth Babtist), Driscoll (Emergent), and others while plagiarizing Craig Groeschel's sermons and lying about it. That is one of many contradictions coming from that bunch. The more they follow their abusive sect, the less they want to read Luther, Chemnitz, or Melanchthon. They are the real Lutherans, they claim, but they openly despise the Book of Concord.

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Crucial Differences":

If they really believed in their precious UOJ, they would not be sitting at the feet of McGavran, C. Peter Wagner, Driscoll, Sweet, Stetzer, Andy Stanley, and a host of others.

I think it's because they really do believe in the false gospel of Universal Objective Justification that they have become the lickspittle of the worlds false teachers. UOJ is a new and different way to become righteous before God and thereby reject the Holy Spirit's faith, blaspheming Him when they call His faith and empty and withered beggars hand. Laying their whole trust in righteousness and the forgiveness of sins before and without faith they are simply chaff being sifted by the wind and every change in doctrine.

It would be better if they would go off and devour each other but they slither around trying to devour the worlds men, women and children too. Hochmuthians.

***

GJ - I will concede that reading, Brett. UOJ means they do not believe anything, so everything is justified. It is universal justification, after all. But do not question them. They save the wrath of God for that sin.

But they telling people they are the real, spiffy, best, brightest Lutherans. Their act is quite different. What's the word for that? Hypocrisy.

WELS Church and Change - Still Operating

2012-01-28T19:01:00.002-06:00

Lutherans pay me to explain this to them,
and they love it.

rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "WELS Church and Change Basics. Milwaukee Members A...":

The C and C apostates always push the envelope. Then, when they are called out on the carpet for their misdeeds, they act clueless. They knew what Leonard Sweet stood for, but they invited him anyway. At my former congregation, I plunged a dagger into the heart when I confronted the congregation president about the connection that Jeff Davis has with C and C. This was after I informed him that they had invited Ed Stetzer to speak at a C and C conference.

Jeff Davis, Cornerstone,
Church and Change board.

The president claimed that when he talked to Mr. Davis about it, he was told that Stetzer was "dis-invited" due to the controversy that was created. So, Stetzer was invited to speak. But, the C and C'ers claimed afterward that he never was invited. So, with this level of dishonesty, why would you pay Cornerstone big bucks to show you how to fleece the members of your congregation? The president also defended Stetzer by stating that old Ed had actually written a paper that was critical of the Emergent Church movement. My humble opinion would be that Stetzer more closely resembles a "Crypto Emergent" and the C and C guys use tactics very close to the Crypto Calvinists.

Ed Stetzer, on the right, is a typical, angry, Emergent Church promoter.

WELS - "We love Stetzer. He has a Fuller drive-by degree
and he cannot spell either."

***

GJ - I kept the Stetzer invitation in the news. Finally the Conference of Pussycats told Church and Change to withdraw the invitation - something that never happened with Leonard Sweet or Martin Marty. The radicals depend on things blowing over. They hate seeing the story pursued.

The first step was denying that Church and Change invited Stetzer, so I reproduced the link and the wording of Stetzer's Tweet and blog. In both places he bragged about being hired by Church and Change and a Missouri Synod group. Stetzer had both events on his web calendar as well. That invitation happened after Kudu Don Patterson took a group of WELS workers to Exponential in Orlando, Florida. Stetzer was a featured speaker there. I am sure that was a co-inky-dink that the invitation happened AFTER the Exponential Conference.

That is the fun thing about narcissists on the Net - they leave footprints everywhere. Stetzer even made fun of conservative Lutherans while boasting about being hired by them.

After the invitation was withdrawn (which meant paying a kill fee), the Changers said it was a lie that Stetzer was ever invited. I get contacts from WELS pastors who have heard I was lying about something. So I sent him the link to the Twitter and blog.

The ending of WELS Church and Change this time is just as much of a lie as it was under Gurgle, who claimed the same thing. At that time an innocent told me that Gurgle ordered it shut down. I said, "Then why are they registering people for their next C and C conference on the WELS.net website?" Response - "They are?" I provided the link. Like I said, narcissists on the Net leave their footprints everywhere.

Under SP Schroeder, Church and Change says they are shut down, but they leave their website and documents available for those who know. Mark Schroeder promotes and protects the Church and Changers, who have changed the color of their fleece but not their agenda.

KJV Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

WELS Church and Change.
Time of Grace.
Men of His Word.
Grace in Action.
WELS Prayer Network.
Jars of Clay.
Cornerstone.
Youth Conference.
Etc. Etc. Etc.

Aardvark Alley: + Matthias Loy +

2012-01-28T18:11:00.001-06:00

Aardvark Alley: + Matthias Loy +:

+ Matthias Loy +

26 January AD 1915; transferred to 28 January*

Matthias Loy (1828-1915) was born on 17 March to Matthias and Christina Loy, a pair of German immigrants. The family lived in near-poverty in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, near Harrisburg. He was the fourth of seven children. Matthias, Senior was a lapsed Catholic who apparently held only nominal religious beliefs for most of his life. Christina came from pietistic Lutheran stock in Württemberg. She did what she could to give the family some semblance of a Christian education and made sure that all but the eldest child were baptized as infants. Even her first-born son eventually was confirmed into the Lutheran Church.

When Matthias was six years old, the family moved to Hogestown, Pennsylvania. He lived with his family until he was fourteen. They then apprenticed him to Baab and Hummel Printers of Harrisburg. During the next six years, he worked for them while attending school. Mr. Hummel brought Matthias to the attention of Harrisburg minister C. W. Schäffer. Pastor Schäffer urged Matthias to consider a pastoral vocation. To this end, he studied studied Greek and Latin under the Harrisburg Academy's principal. This led to enrollment as a full student at the Academy. He hoped to enter the Gettysburg Theological Seminary, perhaps the epicenter of Lutheran liberalism in America.

Illness led Loy's doctor to encourage the young man to move farther west. Matthias found an employment opportunity with the United Brethren Publishing House in Circleville, Ohio. There he would become printer for the Brethren's semimonthly German paper. Loy came to Circleville in 1847 and quickly met the Lutheran pastor. This good soul suggested that Matthias waste no more time getting on with his pastoral education and suggested that he enroll at the Theological Seminary in Columbus. The Evangelical Lutheran Synod of Ohio was much more conservative and confessional than the Lutherans he had left behind in Pennsylvania.

With the promise of financial aid through the Lutheran pastor, Loy sought and received release from his printer's contract and left for Columbus. Of Matthias's time there, C. George Fry writes, "It was at this institution that he received the only two years of formal higher education deemed necessary to be a pastor. In 1849, after a two year 'cram course' that included academy, college, and seminary, Loy was graduated and installed as a minister in Delaware, Ohio."

According to Fry, these two men, along with Charles Porterfield Krauth, "must be seen as a common effort to preserve traditional Lutheran theology from the corrosive effects of 'the acids of modernity' in the last half of the nineteenth century. These three titans — Walther in the West, Krauth in the East, and Loy in the middle — could be compared to three anchors holding fast the ship of Lutheran Confessionalism during the ferocious storms of the Modernist-Fundamentalist Controversy."

In 1860, the Joint Synod of Ohio elected Loy President. Four years later, he was appointed editor of the Lutheran Standard. After sixteen years in the ministry, Capital University, Columbus, Ohio called Loy as professor of theology. He resigned as president of the Ohio Synod in 1878 he resigned as President of the Ohio Synod. Around this time he also returned the call to become English-language professor of theology at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis. Wilhelm Friedrich Lehmann, Loy's successor as synodical president, died in 1880 and Loy returned to that office, succeeding him also as President of Capital University. He started the Columbus Theological Magazine in 1881. Loy retired as professor emeritus in 1902 and died on 26 January 1915.

Loy was finally surrounded by orthodox Lutheran theology and he made the most of his time at the seminary. As a student, he began reading Der Lutheraner, edited by C. F. W. Walther. This led to a long relationship with Dr. Walther, a friendship that grew so great that even their eventual disagreements over predestination and the fracturing of the Synodical Conference couldn't destroy.

Loy was instrumental in the formation of theSynodical Conference. However, at the Ohio Synod meeting at Wheeling in 1881, the synod withdrew from the Conference. This came about over sharp differences in understanding Predestination. Many Ohio Synod pastors taught that God predestined people according to His foreknowledge of whether they would come to faith while the Missouri Synod condemned this as false doctrine.

During his life, Loy wrote several books. Of special note is his seminal work The Augsburg Confession: An Introduction to Its Study and an Exposition of Its Contents.

He also wrote at least twenty hymns, including An Awe-full Mystery Is Here, The Law of God Is Good and Wise, The Gospel Shows the Father's Grace, and Jesus, Thou Art Mine Forever. His hymn translations included All Mankind Fell in Adam's Fall, The Bridegroom Soon Will Call Us, Let Me Be Thine Forever, and Thy Table I Approach.

*Since his death date (26 January) and birth date (17 March) both conflict with long-standing festivals on the sanctorial calendar (Titus and Pádraig respectively) and since 27 January belongs to John Chrysostom, I moved Loy's commemoration the first open date, 28 January.

'via Blog this'

***

GJ - The Delaware congregation in Ohio was just north of us in Columbus. I knew the retired minister of that congregation, a fine man, who studied under Lenski.

Regurgitated WELS Church and Change - E12

2012-01-28T11:24:00.000-06:00

Rambach was an early proponent of UOJ.

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Under the Radar a Bit, But Not Completely Stealth....":

In my opinion, E12 is a the (W)ELS COP's gateway drug into full blown New Age Emergent CGM use. It will be immediately addicting as it scratches the "I don't want to be a barrier to the Word" itch. An itch planted by the unfaithful in the Synod.

"The bottom line is if you don’t have worship or outreach leaders, that’s ok. Provide names of potential leaders, and E12 will begin to train them."

Q: Will you be promoting any specific “style” of worship? Traditional? Contemporary?A: There will be many options within the liturgical framework for congregations to choose. For example, congregations may choose to use the version of Psalm 118 found on page 108 in Christian Worship: A Lutheran Hymnal, with organ and brass accompaniment. However, other versions of Psalm 118 will be suggested as well, to be sung to piano, guitar, etc.https://connect.wels.net/AOM/ps/ccc/General%20Documents/E12/e12%20-%20Frequently%20Asked%20Questions.pdf

"Rev. Jonathan Hein, CCC chairman and pastor at Beautiful Savior, Summerville, S.C., says that while the program contains worship and outreach components, other major goals are to provide leadership training as well as to model a planning process that will help congregations conduct future outreach events. “Our goal is not only to give samples of what you can do but then also to help congregations do it again in the future,” he says."

"Programs like E12 fit in well with the CCC’s mission: to provide short-term assessment and advice to congregations seeking to find ways to improve their ministry. “People are going to see a lot of things like E12 from the CCC—real practical, nuts-and-bolts information that will immediately make an impact in your congregation,” says Hein.

Formed in 2010 by the Conference of Presidents, the CCC is one of seven commissions in the Congregation and Ministry Support Group. It currently has no director but is run by a group of six pastors."ELS is participating also.http://www.evangelicallutheransynod.org/synod-office/news/news/jan12

For a list of Who's Who in the (W)ELS Institute for Worship and Outreach:http://worshipandoutreach.org/category/institute-role/member

Note how their About page answers the question, "Is the Divine Service meant to feed Christ's sheep with His Word and Sacraments or is it an Evangelism tool for reaching the lost and gaining new members?"

"The Institute for Worship and Outreach is a group of WELS pastors who have become convinced, on the basis of study and ministry experiences, that worship forms and outreach methods can and must intersect confessionally and evangelically in efforts to proclaim the gospel of Jesus. With this perspective, they have come together to assist and encourage pastors as they strive for excellence in public worship and mission outreach.”

“2.While personal, educational, social, and service-oriented outreach efforts can and do attract people to our churches and its message, it remains a truism that most seekers will measure our churches and receive first contact with our proclamation of the gospel in public worship.”

3.Many people in our neighborhoods and communities are searching for the truth about life with God and are more interested in our message than in the customs that surround it. Many others, however, approach our church looking to fulfill personal needs that the gospel may not address. Every pastor struggles to minister to these people on their terms so that the Spirit may have an opportunity through the means of grace to touch their hearts and lead them to desire more of the message of Jesus.”

4.Since public worship invariably includes music and the arts, pastors without experience or skill in these areas feel the challenges more acutely, and not every pastor is able to rely on skilled church musicians to assist in this ministry. The worship inadequacies he may sense as he serves his own members are exacerbated when worship becomes a critical component in an outreach strategy.

6. The Spirit grows the Church through the means of grace, but every pastor searches for ways and means to invite and attract people to his church so the gospel might be heard and the sacraments administered.

OversightThe Institute is to be considered an arm of the Conference of Presidents and receives funding with the advice and consent of that body.http://worshipandoutreach.org/about

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Regurgitated WELS Church and Change - E12":

W. E. L. S. spells ENTHUSIASM

You can do this!
January 21, 2012
Congregations conduct surveys in preparation for Schools of Worship Enrichment (SoWE). Three items from these surveys regularly receive the lowest scores - no matter the type of congregation, no matter how rich their musical resources.

•My congregation’s singing is strong and enthusiastic.
•We use enough musical variety for the psalms, hymns, and liturgical songs.
•Our congregation seems to carry out its part of the liturgy (order of service) with enthusiasm.
Read the Rest »

Rev. Bryan Gerlach
Bryan Gerlach serves as the Director of the WELS Commission on Worship.

http://worshipandoutreach.org

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Regurgitated WELS Church and Change - E12":

Missionaries Who Need Music in Minutes
December 20, 2011
A local Atlanta newscast regularly boasts that it will provide “all the headlines and tomorrow’s forecast in the first five minutes.” I don’t know if you need your news freeze-dried and shrink-wrapped like that, but I do still hear that busy missionaries don’t really have the time to spend seven hours or more a week working with sequencers, sound modules and MIDI files in an effort to have some decent music for the weekend worship service.

Read the Rest »

Rev. Michael Schultz
Michael Schultz serves as pastor of Sola Fide Lutheran Church and School in Lawrenceville, GA. In addition to his congregational duties, Schultz has worked for the synod on Christian Worship: Supplement.

http://worshipandoutreach.org

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Regurgitated WELS Church and Change - E12":

Brett, you make a good point. The WELS Commission on Worship is just like the "contemporary worship" advocates when it emphasizes "excellence" in liturgical worship. By doing so, the CoW gives the impression that how the liturgy is performed is more important than what the liturgy delivers, namely, the forgiveness of sins.

All in all, I guess I'd rather have "excellent" liturgy than "excellent" Praise Band worship, which is questionable as to whether it actually delivers the forgiveness of sins.

***

GJ - "Excellence" is a favorite Huebner word, which he applies lovingly to his own work. As a Fuller alumnus he knows how to cast Shrinker-speak into words that appeal to everyone at once. "Error loves amibiguities."

The only appropriate word is "faithful." Pastors are not supposed to be found excited, enthusiastic, entertaining, appealing, or successful. They are to be found "faithful ministers of the mysteries of God."

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Regurgitated WELS Church and Change - E12":

The constant chatter about striving for excellence goes hand in hand with their loss of faith in the efficacy of the Word. A sure sign like a digit turning black in the cold winter. The irony is that they wind up serving putrid garbage instead of the pure Word which is the only excellence given by God through the Means of Grace for life here and Life eternally.

May they choke on the putrid refuse they force upon others.

***

GJ - Yes indeed. First VP Huebner mocks the efficacy of the Word and writes about excellence in worship.
He was another advocate for Floyd Luther Stolzenburg in Columbus. Those Huebners have a thing for murder and adultery.

Under the Radar a Bit, But Not Completely Stealth.WELS Program

2012-01-27T21:47:00.000-06:00

E12 is another gimmick, not exactly secret.

Get this! A friend of mine was put on this email list by pure chance. He belongs to a conservative WELS church which is fighting against the systemic rot within the WELS. Notice that the WELS only sends some information to some people. (I highlighted the text to which I'm referring.) Am I too cynical to suggest that whoever sends these emails is selectively sending the more Enthusiastic transmissions to the more Enthusiastic churches??? NO! I am being realistic. The WELS continues to play Stalin-type games with their information--a key reason why the overwhelmingly conservative-leaning laity are continually losing ground in the fight against pentacostal-baptistalicious-happy-clappy-hipster-dufus-good-times-rock 'n roll Theology.

But do not worry. The power of the Spirit in the Word is greater than the machinations of the WELsian idiots who are Enthusiastic. The Truth will continue on. The real challenge for the Orthodox WELS congregations lies in the necessity to leave the WELS should it become too goofy. It is rapidly becoming too goofy.

(Don't transmit my name or moniker in any way: My employer prohibits me from participating in WEB 2.0. My job has nothing to do with theology but regardless they don't want me posting anywhere...)

----- Forwarded Message -----

Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2012 10:38 PM
Subject: Fw: E12 Program-- For Ichabod- note how not everyone gets everything they are sending- I told them I would be the graphics guy- ha!

﻿ 
----- Original Message ----- 

Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 4:58 PM
Subject: E12 Program

Use this area to offer a short teaser of your email's content. Text here will show in the preview area of some email clients. 
Is this email not displaying correctly?
View it in your browser. 
Welcome to E12

Grace and peace to you, my Christian friends.

If you are receiving this, then you have been registered to participate in E12, a worship-outreach-leadership program that focuses on Easter Sunday 2012.
E12 is offered by the WELS Commission for Congregational Counseling (CCC).  The stated purpose of the CCC is “to assist WELS congregations to assess and evaluate ministry, review biblical teachings and principles that impact ministry, develop plans to adjust and expand ministry in appropriate ways, and carry out their plans over a period of time.”   The E12 program is designed to do just that.  

…assist WELS congregations to assess and evaluate ministry…– E12 will help congregations look at the way they are approaching two key areas of ministry: worship and outreach.  These two important tasks are different, yet are united in that both proclaim the promise of God’s grace in Christ Jesus.    
…review biblical teachings and principles that impact ministry...  – The E12 program will include articles and studies drawn from both God’s Word and the Lutheran Confessions for both personal and group study. 
… develop plans to adjust and expand ministry in appropriate ways… – E12 will provide a variety of resources and ideas which can be used to enhance your worship and outreach efforts.  E12 will also provide leadership training in these areas in order to better equip the saints for Kingdom work.   
… carry out their plans over a period of time… - E12 will run for four months providing ongoing encouragement and resources, with the focal point being Easter Sunday 2012.   It will also provide modules to help churches to plan and duplicate their E12 efforts on their own in future years.     
At the time of this writing, there are individuals from close to 500 congregations receiving E12 materials.  There are over 2600 registered e-mail recipients: pastors, teachers, lay-leaders, etc.   If you know of an individual or congregation that would like to register for E12, they may still do so by sending an e-mail to welseaster12@gmail.comor by going to www.easter12.com.  

Please note, in the coming weeks, not everyone will receive every e-mailing.   So do not be alarmed if someone says they received something, but you did not.  Materials for worship planners will go only to them, outreach materials to outreach personnel, etc.  Pastors and church presidents will be copied on everything.  Thus, E12 is meant to illustrate how various areas of ministry can cooperate and coordinate with each other, all in service of the Gospel.   People with varied gifts and different responsibilities will be working toward one common goal – to proclaim the risen Lord boldly.    Every member of the congregation will have something to do (at the very least, pray) in these efforts.  We make these efforts, not because Christ needs them.  We make them, because Christ privileges and empowers us to do so.  It is an honor to be fellow workers with Christ and with one another in this great mission.

It is also an honor to serve you, Christian friends.   We on the CCC pray that through this program, Christ would bless you in all your Easter efforts.    

Copyright © 2012 Commission for Congregational Counseling, All rights reserved.
Thank you for registering to participate in the E12 program 
Our mailing address is:
Commission for Congregational Counseling
Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
2929 N Mayfair Road
Milwaukee, WI, WI53222

Add us to your address book

---

AC V has left a new comment on your post "Under the Radar a Bit, But Not Completely Stealth....":

WAY too formulaic and Church Growth Method speak, i.e. "Do this = get that." If "Do this = get that" does not work for you, YOU are the problem.

Tim Glende Has Run Out of Material

2012-01-27T21:01:00.002-06:00

Ski and Glende fed their muzzles at the Mark Driscoll worship conference.
They also studied under Babtist Andy Stanley and the yahoos at
Granger Community Church, where they ran into a former member of Jeske's congregation.

Glende's bi-monthly copycat blog:
Groveling for Money
How do you spell hypocrisy? We spell it G-r-e-g J-a-c-k-s-o-n. Dr. Gregory L. Jackson on his blog Ichabod the Glory Has Departed now has a PayPal contribution button. This is from the man who criticizes incessantly the requests for funds from legitimate ministries. For someone who attacks others for asking for funds, it's laughable, if not absurd, for this fake pastor and his fake church to be asking for handouts via the web.

***

GJ - Glende's style is remarkably like Paul McCain's, but all the UOJ fanatics write the same way, blundering from one self-inflicted wound to another.

Lito Cruz, PhD, asked me to set up PayPal because it is difficult, slow, and expensive to send money from one country to another. Sometimes people send me money to buy a group of books. With PayPal, the sending is easy and fast. Mail is already much slower under Obama, and it will surely get even slower in the future.

We are very tiny and inconsequential. "No one reads Ichabod," but the phoney blogger takes note of many different posts. The rotten apples of Appleton are constantly reading this blog. Note the Fox Valley light glowing on the map and the real-time counts on Feedjit.

WELS Director of Communications, Joel Hochmuth - instantly forgiven by WELS.

Glende defended SP Schroeder's snow-job on the Joel Hochmuth arrest, but deception is the basic Church and Change modus operandi. WELS finally made the national news - for having its Director of Communications arrested and charged with the distribution of man-boy rape photos and videos. WELS assured the admitted felon that he was forgiven, and Hochmuth pleaded not-guilty (UOJ plea).

Glende and Ski have quite the scheme going in Fox Valley. They are spending enormous sums of money to have an evening Emergent Church service in the same building as another Emergent Church service. Their only purpose is to skim members from local WELS congregations and to plagiarize Craig Groeschel's clownish sermons. They are "passionate about sharing Jesus" so they excommunicate anyone who questions their lies and plagiarism.

How much money have they spent? Do they report the source for all that loot and a line item budget for how it is spent?

Soon they will need a bail bondsman rather than a PayPal.

Ichabod readers and Jeske fans alike need to see the hate-filled venom from the Church and Changers, the UOJ "everyone-is-forgiven" tribe.

---

LPC has left a new comment on your post "Tim Glende Has Run Out of Material":

There is a universe of difference for the minister asking for money and scaring people that if they do not give, God's work will go under and that God will take them, ala Oral Roberts.

In Dr. Greg's case, it is the people who like to give without him soliciting.

The warped logic of UOJers leaves me most times speechless.

LPC

---

Febreeze has left a new comment on your post "Tim Glende Has Run Out of Material":

I posted this on their website and I'm posting it here because I'm not sure if it will be published:

"The WELS wouldn't dare give me free books (shipping included) and be readily available to discuss Justification with me from an honest view of the Scriptures and Confessions.

I've tried to discuss UOJ with WELS pastors before. In one case he never responded to my email (what great pastoral care for an honestly concerned layman). In other cases they just used out of context Scripture passages and S. Becker quotes.

Trust me, I've had to do the research on my own to see who was right. From one side all I heard is that Greg Jackson is a heretic who is the Devil himself and on the other I hear that the entire world has been justified when Christ died and/or rose from the dead (which is a teaching that is contrary to what I've been taught Rom. 16:17).

I've come to the conclusion that UOJ is a false teaching."

---

Tim Glende grew up in this Masonic congregation.

Synodical Conference Road Signs

2012-01-27T20:22:00.002-06:00

This may look like satire,
but it is a true picture of the Synodical Conference today.

WELS Church and Change Basics. Milwaukee Members Are Waking Up to Reality

2012-01-27T19:32:00.001-06:00

District VP Don Patterson denied he was Church and Change,
but he went to this conference and gave a presentation at another.
When Changer John Lawrenz wrote on the C and C list-serve,
Patterson cooed, "Pure gold."

Here is the PDF for the 2009 conference. Don't worry. If they remove it, I saved it and can reproduce it as a Word document, PNGs, or both. It is safe to say that most of the speakers are Church and Change Fellow Travelers. A few may be useful idiots. You will hear people deny their connections. If so, why have they worked so hard with these heretics?

Notice the URL for the brochure -

http://www.churchandchange.org/home/2384/2384/file/C&C%20program_color.pdf

As of today, the website is still active and working, but the links are hidden from view. But WELS innocents have been told there is no Church and Change. The appearance is - everything is gone. The reality is just the opposite.

Lookee here - the 2007 Church and Change conference is also preserved. Here is the URL:

http://www.churchandchange.org/home/2384/2384/files/CanCprogram.Web.pdf

I saved that one too.

Ski and Glende excommunicated a member for asking questions about all this. Here he is again.

Leonard Sweet is a New Age Methodist,
but WELS and Missouri devour his Dreck.

Oh! Oh! Here is a question about Leonard Sweet speaking in 2005. I have copied this far down on the page, because someone may de-rez this on the Net.

WELS Church and Change, Purpose

Church and Change is a growing group of WELS Christians who desire to think and work like the Apostle Paul who said, "I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some." The Church and Change group is interested in practicing and promoting innovation in ministry methods throughout the WELS especially at the "grass roots" level.

Some in WELS live and breathe music. Some history. Some church libraries, or mission festivals, or prison ministry, or limiting abortion. Good! God uses all effort by his people to his glory. Church and Change is group of committed WELS Christians who live and breathe innovation in ministry across all spectrums. Church and Change folk are committed to Lutheran Theology as explained in the Lutheran Confessions. However, they are thinking about, working with, and pioneering different ways to reach more people, more often, with the gospel so the Holy Spirit can do His thing. [GJ - Just one question. What moron wrote this paragraph?]

Innovation in methodology is yesterday's news in the WELS. Pastors, teachers, synod administrators, worker training leaders, home and world missionaries, worship leaders, computer buffs, and countless local laymen and laywomen, have been tweaking (and/or radically changing) ministry methods for years. In every WELS generation God has raised up men and women, for reasons known only to Him, who are interested in pushing the envelope of "gospel delivery systems." And this, long before concepts like "English" or "radio ministry" or "Parish Assistance," or "paradigm" or "long distance learning" entered WELS thinking or culture.

The goal of Church and Change is to provide a gathering point, a "home room" for WELS innovators. Perhaps this is the same need felt by the WELS Church Librarians which led them to gather for support, encouragement, and well -- good old fashioned fellowship - one of the greatest assets in the WELS. Do WELS administrators and WELS laypeople know about each other's efforts at innovation? The purpose of Church and Change includes inviting WELS innovators to communicate with one another, and work together where possible to avoid duplication of effort which wastes God's resources.

The world is changing rapidly. Who are the innovators of today who will help us "make the leap from German to English" in this generation? Hopefully, Church and Change can encourage the process of helping WELS ministries keep pace with our rapidly changing culture in America, and around the shrinking globe.

If you are currently serving as an innovator in your WELS ministry, please join us. Encourage us. Pray for us. Let us know what you are learning these days. We will happily do the same for you.

The Secret History of Church and Change: No Names Given

In 1995, a group of about 10-12 men [GJ - who?] gathered at Wisconsin Lutheran College to discuss current methods of sharing Jesus which were commonly being used in the WELS at that time. Many at the first meeting felt that those methods of sharing Jesus were not “keeping up with” the rate of change in society. The message of the Bible was not, therefore, penetrating society very well. [GJ - Cuz the Word cannot do it without Schwaermer help.]

John Parlow, Willow Creek Ministerium member,
attended Drive 08's Babtist Worship conference,
with Ski, Glende, Jim Buske - 8 WELS workers in all.

"Dr?" Steve Witte - Gordon Conwell quickie degree, so
he could be president of the Asian porta-seminary.

In 1998 two men [GJ - who?] who had attended the first meeting planned a Church and Change conference in Green Bay, Wisconsin. The next year there was a second conference in Green Bay. About 20 people attended each year. [GJ - Witte and Parlow, doubtless, the rotten apples in Appleton]

In May 2001, WELS Parish Services applied for and received a Forward in Christ grant to conduct a three-year pilot program to address the issues surfaced by the previous two Church and Change conferences. The three-year pilot program was designed to be a grassroots gathering of individuals who were pioneering new innovative methods of sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ with a changing culture. [GJ - You suckers paid to get Church and Change going, so they could network for synod, Thrivent, and foundation grants.]

Three annual conferences were planned and held beginning in 2001. At the first conference, approximately 50 WELS members attended. The attendance grew to 150 in the second year and 180 in the third year. By the third year, the attendees included more than just individuals who were actively pioneering new and innovative methods for sharing Jesus. Many in attendance wanted to learn about how to better share the gospel with the changing culture in which they served. In addition to the three annual conferences a variety of other workshops and gatherings were held dealing with specific ministry issues such as leadership, worship, and women’s ministry.

At the final conference of the three-year pilot, held in November 2003, the conference participants enthusiastically encouraged the organizers to continue Church and Change. A steering committee was subsequently formed from among the participants to address the future direction of Church and Change.

From November 2003 until the present the steering committee has met and drafted a proposal that addresses the future of Church and Change.

---

Ron Ash, Katy Perry, and Tim Glende
are transforming the world with their new methods.

Church and Change Board of Directors - Ski bailed out officially, but was on the board earlier. Bruce Becker was on the board but left officially when this blog uncovered his dual role as head of WELS Parish Services/Church and Change board member. Chairman Ron Ash just happened to be followed at St. Peter's Freedom by Changers Glende and Ski.

Pastor Ron Ash	Chairman
Jeff Davis	Vice Chairman
Barry Spencer	Treasurer
Sarah Owens	Secretary
Pastor John Huebner
Brian Arthur Lampe

Jeff Davis will help talk your congregation into a ruinous building program,
which he will help fund with law-motivated guilt giving.
Asking about his huge fees will getcha excommunicated at Holy Word, Austin Texas.

GJ - Note how Jeske-centric this board is, with three staff members from St. Marcus - 1. Ski (formerly, taking Bishop Katie, also at St. Marcus, up to Appleton with him), 2. Barry Spencer, and 3. Brian Arthur Lampe, who is a self-appointed pastor with his own ministry business.

The board is also Appleton-based, with Ron Ash (formerly at St. Peter, Freedom) as chairman, Witte and Parlow as founders.

Tracing members and moolah is a good way to see where the power and influence are. At Willowcreek's Liberal College, three members of the board are from a non-WELS congregation - CrossWalk, Luveen, Arizona (Jeff Gunn, Church and Changer). When I published that fact, WLC changed it list of board members to hide parish affiliation. I never heard of a college having three members from the same church running the place.

DP Buchholz will someday discipline Jeff Gunn and kick CrossWalk out of WELS before it actually joins WELS. It part of a 30-year plan. Right now they are on double secret probation.

---

Bailing Water has plenty of information about what has been going on.

---

Paul Calvin Kelm refused to answer his own fellow clergy
when they objected to the Leonard Sweet conference.
Likewise, Ski and Glende block email from anyone who fails to genuflect to them.
"Write a letter," SP Schroeder says.

WELS Q and A

CSC: WELS Topical Q&A: The Church and Its Ministry: Music/Worship: Church and Change conference

Most Recently Posted Ask a Question
Q:	I recently was sent this copy and I am wondering if this is a WELS sponsered event. I found it a little strange to say the least, especially in some of the noted items such as "Insightful interviews with former WELS members" and the keynote speaker being Leonard Sweet. I know I received a brochure for the WELS Worhip Conference in MN this summer, so I'm wondering what this is, and what is the "Church and Change Steering Committee?" Is there a link on the synod website for the listserv this brochure speaks of?Here is the copy: 2005 Church and Change Conference November 9-11 Madison, Wisconsin The 2005 Church and Change Conference will challenge, inspire, and encourage you as a Christian and as a leader of Christians. But then, when several hundred creative WELS pacesetters gather around God's Word and share their ideas, that's what we expect would happen. We are excited to announce that world-class Christian researcher and communicator Dr. Leonard Sweet will be the keynote speaker for this year's conference. He will address the general session all day on Thursday, November 10. More information about Dr. Sweet can be found at http://www.leonardsweet.com/biocv.html In addition to Dr. Sweet, we are putting together 15-18 workshops that will cover subjects such as: * New approaches to children's and youth ministry. * Starting a contemporary worship service. * New and effective approaches to apologetics (defending what we believe). * Insightful interviews with former WELS members. * Women's ministries. * Small groups. * Preaching in today's world. * And much more... The conference steering committee is interested in hearing about workshop topics you feel are beneficial for this year's conference. Please share your suggestions with Barry Spencer at spebar@tds.net. New to this year's conference will be a Church and Change Exhibit Hall. This room will feature the latest in ministry resources! This conference is for innovative Christian leaders like yourself. Please keep it in your prayers! Mark your calendar now! Invite your friends. And stay tuned to our Church and Change listserv for information updates in the coming weeks and months.

A:	The Church and Change conference is put on by leaders of a number of WELS congregations, but it is not sponsored by WELS. Church and Change people have, however, reported to our Conference of Presidents in regard to their activities and WELS does send one of its administrators to attend the conference. The Conference of Presidents has in the past urged discretion on the part of all WELS affiliated organizations who use speakers from outside our doctrinal fellowship. We do not have a web link to connect you to information on the speaker. --- Bailing Water discussion on Church and Change, plagiarism.

Fiftieth Anniversary

2012-01-27T06:13:00.003-06:00

Why Are Lutherans Pounding the Law?

2012-01-27T00:36:00.002-06:00

The Martin Luther College "sermon" brought a flurry of responses, but I also saw a Facebook notice about a church sign. "Do all you can and leave the rest to God." That was LCMS, St. Peter in St. Louis.

The quick answer is, "Flogging people with the Law is the easiest approach. It requires little thought."

Those who know neither Luther nor the Concordists are ignorant of the Gospel. They are like the legendary blind men who encountered an elephant and perceived a wall, a rope, a snake, and a tree trunk - based on feeling it. Naturally, they argued fiercely about their findings.

I noticed from an official write-up that Ft. Wayne had more discoveries about justification by faith. By all means, introduce new variants to add confusion to the poorly educated. Debate. Write papers. Stand up and say, "I found your presentation helpful."

Here is a simple solution.

Use the Men in Black light and erase all memory of seminary notes and lectures, current books, and patriarchs of the ancient sect (which may reach back 170 years).
Yea, even Lenski, for a time. One thing leads to another. Next you will want other crutches.
Work through the early parts of the Augsburg Confession.
Read all of the Large Catechism, which is not that long.
Study the Formula of Concord, one little part at a time.
Read out loud one Luther sermon per week.
Avoid all meetings, especially synodical hot air contests.
Visit members and prospects each day.
Take one day off per week with no parish work, just to be with the family.

That should break the endless loop of grabbing for fads, motivational talks, gimmicks, and other time-wasters.

I have come to the conclusion that the Olde Synodical seminaries should be closed or turned into combined five-year angel factories. Face the demographics. Many schools are going to close in the near future and student debt is already a catastrophe. Boomers wrecked what benefited them, so they should admit their self-centeredness and fix the problem.

One Lutheran told me today they pay $18,000 a year for medical insurance, more for disability and pension, plus a salary, plus a car allowance. That is in a church with 60 attending, one pastor. Does anyone think that budget can be maintained? Add school loans, false teaching leaders, and it is an expensive disaster.

ELCA has been working with the Olde Synodical Conference using fads and business models. They deserve the fate that awaits those with no faith. However, with the Gospel, with faith, they would receive the benefits promised - and the cross.

Pope Paul the Unlearned Edited and Promoted Evolution Books for Concordia Publishing House

2012-01-26T21:18:00.001-06:00

Rev. Paul McCain and CPH have been publishing blatantly evolutionistbooks--for children no less--at least since 2007. Dr. Rev. Paul L. Maierhad a children's bible story trilogy published by CPH, and two of those books at least teach theistic evolution. Maier's creation and flood books agree with the idea that all the fossil layers were laid down before creation, and so the only proof of the flood, which came later, is the rainbow--not all the sedimentary layers. Maier also says thatthe Bible teaches the Big Bang. The epilogues to Maier's two booksin question are typed below. Ken Ham has blogged about Maier's Floodbook, but he doesn't know yet about the evolutionism in Maier's creation book (he will shortly, though):

Beware of What Is Not Said, Jan 16, 2012, by Ken Ham:
http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2012/01/16/beware-of-what-is-not-said/

Church Mouse also blogged on how Paul McCain was asked in 2009 whether one can believe in evolution and be a LCMS member or not, and McCain referred the questioner to his local LCMS pastor. The implication is that if you pastor-shop enough, like some people doctor-shop, you can believe in evolution and be a member of the LCMS,and in good standing, too:

Can a belief in evolution exclude you from church?by Church Mouse, September 21, 2009
http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/can-a-belief-in-evolution-can-exclude-you-from-church/

Snippet: I hope that I have not offended any members of the LCMS, Pastor McCain in particular, with this post. That was not the intention. I simply wonder if an LCMS member has the option to believe in evolution.

The Real Story of the Creation (CPH, 2007)
http://www.amazon.com/Real-Story-Creation-Paul-Maier/dp/0758612656

E P I L O G U E

Science often tells the story of our beginnings a bit differently. In its "Big Bang" theory, a tiny cosmic egg the size of a marble explodedinto the universe in one trillionth of a second. That's harder to believethan the Bible, yet it amounts to the same thing: God's instant creation.Science tells us that matter and energy are the two great building blocksof nature. So does the Bible. Science requires light before vegetation.So does the Bible. The various stages of a developing nature involvingcreatures in the sea and sky before mammals on land runs parallel inboth the Bible and science.

In fact, science gives us even more amazing detail about the immensity of the universe and our planet Earth, which can suport life only because of a bewildering number of factors that had to be just right or life could never have happened--showing adivine design and intelligence behind it all. [GJ - The Bible needs science to prop it up and fill in the blanks.]

This, then, in the magnificent story of how we all came to be.None of it was accidental. All of it is the Creator's great plan. Only Godcould have accomplished all this!

------------------

The Real Story of the Flood (CPH, 2008)
http://www.amazon.com/Real-Story-Flood-Paul-Maier/dp/0758612672/

E P I L O G U E

“Wait a minute,” you might be thinking. “This is certainly an interestingstory, but is it history? Did it really happen? Did all of those animals really crowd onto one ship? Wouldn’t dinosaurs crush Noah’s ark if they tried to board it?”

The answer to these questions is… Yes. But Mr. and Mrs. Tyrannosaurus Rex missed the boat. They were not around at the time. Nor were theirbrontosaurus, triceratops, or stegosaurus relatives. All the gigantic citizens of Jurassic Park lived and died long before the flood. Indeed, they roamed the earth during that early era described in the first half of Genesis, chapter one.

It is history. In fact, many ancient civilizations have flood epics thatparallel the biblical version. Among the Babylonians, the flood story was calledthe Gilgamesh Epic. In ancient Egypt, the annual flooding of the Nile River reminded people of a much greater deluge. In ancient Greece, it was not anark but Mount Parnassus that enabled a couple at its summit to survive theGreek version of the flood. And in the Americas, the Mayans told theirchildren of a great flood.

Will anyone ever find ruins of the ark? That remains to be seen, butwhether the ark is ever found, you can be sure that the flood did happen!You have proof of it every time you see a rainbow.

------------------

Book Review: The Real Story of the Exodus by Paul L. Maier
http://biblegeekgonewild.com/2010/08/10/book-review-the-real-story-of-the-exodus-by-paul-l-maier/

------------------

Rev. Paul T. McCainPublisher & Executive Director of Editorial, CPH
http://www.cph.org/t-about-contact.aspx

http://www.baynews9.com/article/news/2010/july/127813/Evolution-display-shows-man-pointing-gun-at-another-(i-poll)

http://theredneckhillbillies.com/blog/redneck-evolution/

Scroll down a little:

http://www.religiousintelligence.org/churchnewspaper/eos/the-evolution-sceptics/

***

Pope Paul the Unlearned favors rationalism over the Word of God,
Knapp/Walther rather than Luther.

GJ - The neos in Missouri, who want to call themselves "Confessional," are really compromisers. If they did a little studying they would find that the same fad took over the Evangelicals in the 19th century. Fearing they would be seen as backwards, the Evangelicals created an amalgamation of Creation and Evolution, a little of each. Evolution always won in time. Rationalism is ashamed of the divine efficacy of the Word.

My favorite example is the LCA pastor who decided to join the conservatives, but he had trouble with the Word creating in six 24-hour days. I asked him, "You believe in the Incarnation but have trouble with that?" Later he got in touch with his inner rationalist and became a United Church of Christ pastor.

The Big Bang theory, the fad of this era, has serious problems, as non-believers acknowledge. But that is not my point. As soon as one tries to merge Creation with that theory, the Word takes second place and becomes displaced.

I heard it growing up. "The days of Creation are billions of years."

"What about fossils?" Answer - "God put them there to test our faith."

McCain is especially obnoxious when defending the Pietist UOJ theory, which also depends on the non-efficacy of the Word, the non-operation of the Holy Spirit (exclusively) through the Means of Grace. His dithering with Creation is consistent with his denial of justification by faith.

KJV 2 Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.

Denial of the Creation and the Flood is a rejection of the efficacy of the Word. No wonder the rationalistic Pietists cannot grasp how the efficacious Word of the Gospel declares us righteous, which is received in faith.

We had Creation speakers at Shepherd of Peace in Columbus, inviting high school students from all over the area to hear them. Many "proofs" of evolution are evidence of Creation and the Flood. One is the example of the fossils. When a pet dies and is buried in the yard, it does not become a fossil. It is completely recycled by God's natural recyclers (as detailed in The Wormhaven Gardening Book). The fossil record shows that vast numbers of plants and animals were pressed together and changed through vast changes, enormous pressure, volcanic action, and other cataclysmic factors. See Rehwinkel's The Flood.

The Word of God teaches me about Creation and the Flood, so the evidence does not come as a surprise. It is a mistake to say, "Aha, this finding proves the Bible really is true." We know that already. All the learning in the world is not as powerful as the Word of God. The Scriptures judge all books. No book judges Holy Writ. Luther said that and it remains true.

Luther saw the beauty of the little pink hands of the mouse.

Luther had a statement in his Genesis Commentary that I liked. He speculated about mice coming from the rotting process in ships, as some thought at the time. But he added, "But it does not matter." He added that they were really cute, delicate creatures, with tiny their pink hands. Luther was not stuck with the science of his day. He said that, nevertheless, God created them.

I have always been a student of science and technology, although my chemistry and physics teachers thought their fields would make far more progress if I abandoned the physical sciences. Real science is in perfect harmony with the Bible, but an alien philosophy can easily distort the data. Evolution is really a philosophy, a complete and self-proving way of organizing all the data, giving it meaning for unbelievers. Therefore, an amalgamation can never work, except to make Evolution acceptable to gullible, half-educated bloggers.

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Pope Paul the Unlearned Edited and Promoted Evolut...":

ChurchMouse comments on this McCain-Maier-evolution post:

http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/early-pietism-count-von-zinzendorf-and-the-spread-of-moravian-teachings/#comments

2 commentsComments feed for this article
January 27, 2012 at 6:58 am
Bruce Church

Church Mouse blog entry mentioned in this post:

http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/01/pope-paul-unlearned-edited-and-promoted.html

Reply
January 27, 2012 at 7:29 am
churchmouse

Thanks for this, Bruce — much appreciated!

Search Engine Optimization - Mrs. Ichabod Would Like the Benefits

2012-01-26T12:06:00.000-06:00

Mrs. Ichabod has started a blog for her jewelry classes and retail business:

Creations by Chris Jackson.

It is also linked in the left column. The more people click on the link, the higher it will be in Google searches. Doing this is called Search Engine Optimization.

Chris also has a Facebook page, called Creations by Chris Jackson. If you use Facebook, "liking" it will help promote the page, which will post all the blog links.

Facebook Page - Creations by Chris Jackson.

The Bella Vista Antiques Mall and Flea Market is where she displays her jewelry. We stopped there with Norma Boeckler to fix up the chapel for Bethany Lutheran Church.

I am the backroom techie helping out with this.

Now for the news.

Chris got a class going at Northwest Arkansas Community College. The quota for starting the class was four students. She lined up nine students for the first offering, including one woman who stopped by to look and stayed.

She had the ladies making earrings on their own in two hours. They loved it.

.---

I just saw the Creations by Chris Jackson link on Ichabod. That’s going to be a lot of fun. How often are you hosting classes at the college? My grandfather on my Mom’s side of the family was Spanish and I remember as a little boy that he always wore lots of silver and turquoise jewelry. It was a nice memory. The jewelry was always warn smooth where his skin would rub against it. I hope you enjoy the classes.

In Christ,

Brett

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churchmousec (http://churchmousec.wordpress.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Churchmouse Campanologist":

Many thanks, Dr Jackson!

Part two on Count von Zinzendorf follows shortly -- later this evening. More to follow on pietism in other Christian denominations next week, God willing.

Admittedly, there is much more to cover in the Thirty Years' War, but my posts were intended just to give a brief view of pietism.

I shall bookmark Mrs Jackson's blog and feature it on my blogroll. It is well-timed in our age of austerity. Please pass on my very best wishes and I pray for all God's blessings towards her success in helping others.

Churchmouse

Churchmouse Campanologist

2012-01-26T11:43:00.001-06:00

Churchmouse Campanologist:

However, to understand where Jan (‘John’) Hus and the Moravians derived their influence, it helps to find out more about the history of Moravia and its influences from geography as well as kingdoms and other strands of Christianity. As most Protestants know, Hus was part of the run-up to Luther’s Reformation.

Background

Moravia comprises more or less the eastern part of today’s Czech Republic. It derives its name from the Morava River, the principal waterway of the region. One of the Morava’s lowland regions is known as the Marchland, march meaning ‘border’ in German and not ‘marsh’, as we might think. Wikipedia explains a fact pertinent to parts of this post (highlights mine):

'via Blog this'

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GJ - This post is especially worth reading because of the connection with Lutherans. Bishop Martin Stephan was loyal to Bohemian Pietism, which is what the Saxon Migration brought to Perry County and St. Louis, Missouri - not Lutheran orthodoxy, but cell group Pietism.

Martin Luther College Evangelism Day "Sermon" 2011

2012-01-26T07:08:00.003-06:00

"That's a sermon?"

This transcript was delivered stealthily by Witness:

"I've just discovered this lovely transcript. It's the sermon that accompanied KOINE's Evangelism Day 2011 evening rock concert in the Chapel of the Golden Calf. It's a word-for-word transcript -- fragments and all -- with a few explanatory notes I put *inside asterisks*".

This is the worst sermon I have ever weathered. This Blödsinn does not belong near Lutherans.

*The devotionbegins with a short and amusing bluefish.tv video. In summary: A trail hiker istrapped and needs help desperately. A passing fellow hiker manufactures lameexcuses concerning why he will not help.*

Brothers and Sisters, I hate to put you in a really difficult spotright now, but is that you and I? Is that us, when we make an excuse like thatsometimes? And maybe not as dramatic as that was. And that's a hard accusationfor me to make. Especially here in this chapel. At this college where you'rebeing trained as pastors, teachers, and staff ministers. And yet, do yourealize that the devil is working double-time on this place? He's everywhere,but he's working harder on you. Because the last thing he wants is you to beout there, sharing Jesus.

Evangelism day. You know, what an amazing day we had today. You had theopportunity to come in here, listen to presenters talk about missions infar-away countries, hear about mission opportunities right here at home. Maybeit was little kids. Maybe it was inner-city. Maybe it was people with specialneeds. Maybe you're thinking about a job, found a job opportunity for thesummer, or mission trip.

And yet, despite all the good things we had today, I know that some ofyou were encouraged and looked forward to this, but I also know that some ofyou maybe didn't take it that seriously last night. Maybe you thought, “it's agood day to get out of class,” and you stayed up later, didn't think you had topay much attention today. Wherever you were at this morning, wherever you wereat in your life, you had an opportunity to be encouraged today and to learnabout new opportunities. And yet the devil was working harder in you today thanever. It's very easy for us to imagine that situation that we're in and haveconfidence and say, “I would never do something like that guy, I'd havethe answers.” And when it happens, we panic. We panic, and we come up withexcuses.

We come up with all the things that we can do, and many of them... are just plain sin.

*A whiteboard on a tripod stands in the chancel. He begins illustratingthe yellow highlighted words on thewhiteboard*

You know, what else gets in the way of us sharing Jesus? I'm going towait to share Jesus, because I need to studymore first. I'm going to study more first, and then I'm going to shareJesus, because then I'll know more.

I'll wait. I'll wait until myvicar year. Then I'll go out and share Jesus. I'll wait until I actually havemy call.

Maybe it's not the right place?You have an opportunity to share Jesus and it just doesn't look like the rightplace to do it.

How about courage? Maybe youhaven't been in the word lately and now you're lacking courage?

I think one that we all like to do sometimes is say “someone else will do it. That's not my job.I'll let somebody else do that. They'll have plenty of time to hear it.”

And maybe, I don't have to tell them, because they already know? I'll just assume they know whoJesus is. We make that judgment by looking at them.

Sometimes, our excuse is that they probably wouldn't understand. It'd take to long, and theyprobably wouldn't understand.

How about bothering? I might bebothering them. A few weeks ago, in a grocery store with my two daughters,one's four and one's two years old, in the grocery cart and they're singing atthe top of their lungs “Jesus Loves Me, This I Know.” And shame on me, thefirst thing I thought was, “how can I get them to be quiet? Somebody might beoffended in the grocery store.” And what I should have been thinking was, “whocares? What an awesome faith!” What an awesome, childlike faith! And anopportunity to witness and share Jesus.

We have a lot of bad things up here that get in our way, and where dowe go? Our reading tonight from Isaiah, written so long ago, and yet applies sowell for you right now.

And now the LORD says ---

he who formed me in the womb to be his servant

to bring Jacob back to him

and gather Israel to himself,

for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD

and my God has been my strength ---

he says:

“It is too small a thing for you to be my servant

to restore the tribes of Jacob

and bring back those of Israel I have kept.

I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,

that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth.”

(Isaiah 49:5-6)

Friends, this is where it's at. We have a God that is standing next tous and tells us that he's giving us strength, and he's giving us thatopportunity and that command. To be that light to all people. And we don't haveto do it ourself. And all these things that are in our way...

*Shatters the whiteboard using a cane, revealing a vibrantillustration of a cross*

They're gone. They're gone because of what happened right there (pointingto cross). Evangelism day might be over, but this is your time. Today is yourday to share Jesus' love. Right now, not when you feel you're ready. Not whenyou have someone backing you up. Your time is right now.

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Martin Luther College Evangelism Day "Sermon" 2011...":

I highly recommend going to your local (W)ELS church website and read through the posted sermons. The Law driven sermon above is actually quite common.

"The gifts we give are seldom as well thought-out as these gifts were. The gifts we give are seldom as precious or treasured as much as these gifts were. We can’t help but imagine the wise men bow down in this little house in Bethlehem, a chair and a bench scrape on the floor as the family makes room for the wise men crowding in the little kitchen—Mary and the baby probably by a little hearth, the firelight glinting on the latches of the treasures as they open them up to show Joseph and Mary what they want the baby to have—and what is it we bow down before the Lord with? Do we hesitantly open a wallet? Do we scramble on Sunday morning to find the envelopes for church? Do we grudgingly look at our calendars before we offer our time? Do we hesitate before we commit to or even consider a task for the church? Or do we sometimes hold back our service because we think, “Someone else has more time,” or “I’m not going to waste my time doing that because no one else will come.”
"But what the Lord asks of us is that we serve, and that we give—"

"(F) To the Magi and even through the Magi, Jesus was revealed as the Savior of the World. He came as a gift to us; the wise men brought their gifts to him, and how can we do less than offer up our whole lives as gifts to him, who came into the world to take away our sins? He gave us the peace of God…"

http://splnewulm.org/weeklysermons/?p=801

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Martin Luther College Evangelism Day "Sermon" 2011...":

"After recognizing that, what other “missions” do you now have that God has placed before you? You have probably not been called to mentor kings, but God has a purpose and mission for your personal life.
What is it?
• To be a godly mother?
• To work hard as a productive employee in the company?
• To be a teacher?
• To be a student?
• To be a father, the spiritual leader in your home?
• To be a counselor for a troubled friend?
• To be a leader in your church, by specific office or as a supportive member?
• To plan to witness to that person that you know will probably not be hearing about Christ from others around them?
• Or, for some of you young people here today, could God be calling you to consider serving him as a pastor or teacher with your life?

As you think about all that, what is your attitude toward your mission?
• Are you tired of your station in life?
• Are you unhappy with it?
• Do you feel like complaining about it?
• Do you neglect the duties before you that God has placed there?
• Are you stubborn?
• Or young people who might be able to consider whether God could use you publicly for his kingdom, would you say “No” for no good reason?
Is there a temptation for us to say to God, “Listen, Lord, for your servant is speaking”?

If so, it is a day to repent of selfish thoughts and marvel that in Christ our Savior we have forgiveness. It is a day to recommit ourselves to whatever mission God personally has put before us in our lives and strive to fulfill it with the strength that he provides in an attitude that is humble, trusting, and ready. It is a day to say along with Samuel, “Speak, Lord, for your servant is listening.”

Speaking is a miracle, isn’t it? And the fact that God would speak to us is a greater miracle, isn’t it? Yet today we close with a prayer that God would work a miracle in us to… Listen. God is still calling today. He is calling:
1. By a miracle
2. For a mission
May he move us to hear and heed his call. And believing in his forgiveness and grace, may we be led to say, “Here I am, Lord.” Amen.”

http://www.htlc-wa.org/home/140004986/140004986/140047070/Microsoft%20Word%20-%20011512%20Sermon.pdf

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Gorath has left a new comment on your post "Martin Luther College Evangelism Day "Sermon" 2011...":

Not an ounce of gospel in that sermon, is there? There's no mention of savior, salvation (not in his interpretation of Isaiah 49), mercy, grace, peace, forgiveness, atonement, or sacrifice.

This guy demands sharing Jesus' love, while he has not shared it anywhere in his own sermon! Classic pietist "you're not good enough" rubbish.

***

GJ - If they do not believe that the Gospel comes to us solely through the Means of Grace, they are going to pound us with the Law. As the allegory Pilgrim's Progress states, "I am the Law. I have no mercy."

It is worth noting that the author of Pilgrim's Progress, Bunyan, read Luther's Galatians Commentary more than any other book except the Bible.

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Martin Luther College Evangelism Day "Sermon" 2011...":

And this from yesterday's Meditations (1.19.12). Text: 2 Thess. 2:16,17; Theme: "We are encouraged"; Author: Andreas Karlstadt?

When hardships and heartaches put you back on your heels and cause you to wonder if God really loves you because you can't feel it at the time, God points to the cross so you see the full extent of his love....

When a guilty conscience nags at you and tells you that you aren't good enough to get into heaven, God points to the cross so you see the completed payment for all your sins. Your sins are forgiven. Your guilt is gone. Heaven is waiting....

When your life seems to be on a treadmill and you don't seem to be making any progress or making any difference in the world, God reminds you that your life still has meaning and purpose and that your labor in the Lord is not in vain...

And on it goes. Not a word about the means of grace, just talk about "God reminds you." "Karlstadt" keeps pointing back to the cross for forgiveness and encouragement.

Here's what Luther said, "If I now seek the forgiveness of sins, I do not run to the cross, for I will not find it given there. Nor must I hold to the suffering of Christ as Dr. Karlstadt trifles, in knowledge or remembrance, for I will not find it there either. But I will find in the sacrament or the gospel the word which distributes, presents, offers, and gives to me that forgiveness which was won on the cross" ("Against the Heavenly Prophets" AE 40:214).

The Underground Railroad: LCMS Student Loan Debt Slaves Escape to Canada

2012-01-26T06:35:00.000-06:00

Follow The Drinking Gourd

When the sun comes back,
and the first Quail calls,
Follow the drinking gourd,
For the old man is waiting
for to carry you to freedom
If you follow the drinking gourd.

Chorus:
Follow the drinking gourd,
Follow the drinking gourd,
For the old man is waiting
for to carry you to freedom
If you follow the drinking gourd.

The riverbank will make a very good road,
The dead trees show you the way.
Left foot, peg foot traveling on,
Following the drinking gourd.

Lyrics www.allthelyrics.com/lyrics/unknown/
The river ends between two hills,
Follow the drinking gourd,
There's another river on the other side,
Follow the drinking gourd.

When the great big river meets the little river,
Follow the drinking gourd.
For the old man is waiting
for to carry you to freedom
If you follow the drinking gourd.

http://www.followthedrinkinggourd.org/What_The_Lyrics_Mean.htm

Gurgle's Call Being Over December 11th - Explained Here for the First Time

2012-01-26T00:00:00.001-06:00

LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Church projects more challenging after the boom ti...":

Gurgel was done at HW effective December 11, 2011. They called a Valleskey, who has returned the call, and now have extended a new call.

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LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Gurgle's Call Being Over December 11th - Explained...":

It's 'Holy Word Christian Academy' now...LOL.

Attendance was up around 90 again last week (22nd) at north while south is down. There must be some arm twisting going on. I also see by their website that they are looking at a $425,000 piece of property for north's permanent location. Seven digit debt is just around the corner. Cornerstone offered to come back and do another drive in a couple years...how does that go...fool me once?

Steadfast Lutherans » SMP Program is “Mega-Death” for Lutheran Congregations

2012-01-25T19:58:00.001-06:00

Sweet was the featured speaker at Concordia, St. Louis,
and he bedazzles the leaders of WELS with his spacey Zen statements.

Steadfast Lutherans » SMP Program is “Mega-Death” for Lutheran Congregations:

SMP Program is “Mega-Death” for Lutheran Congregations

January 25th, 2012Post by Martin Noland

Because of comments and additional information received by email, the post has been completely revised. I did the best research I could on the basis of published sources, but it looks like the published sources are not what is actually happening.

'via Blog this'

***

GJ - C. F. W. Walther's training consisted of a four-year degree at Leipzig (rationalistic). Yet he is the greatest theologian who ever lived, with all his opinions trumping Luther and the Book of Concord.

The answer seems to be a much shorter and more focused training period, perhaps a five-year degree, plus the elimination of the costly vicarage year, which was invented and imposed on students.

Another odd, modern concept is the wife financing her husband's schooling when the LCMS has abandoned its own seminaries. Mission funds are for the pay and perks of the synod staff, who live and work like princes.

Coming soon is a collapse of the traditional seminary system in the synods. ELCA's beehives are obviously in crisis: Berkeley, Chicago, Southern, Wartburg (the obvious ones). The two LCMS seminaries are bloated brick-piles serving the interests of the faculties.

Here is the cussing minister, Driscoll,
with the senior editor of the ESV, J. I. Packer, a Calvinist.
But Issues, Etc chuckles that "justification by faith" is Calvinist.

Anonymous Name-Caller Quits Ichabod

2012-01-25T19:51:00.001-06:00

fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

Commenting on this site makes me feel as if I were commenting to Pharisees. So I write poorly and communicate poorly therefore the logical conclusion is that I have poor attitude toward's doctrine? WHAT?!? So what you are saying Greg is that since I struggle with proper English, I therefore struggle with proper Doctrine.

That is quite mean Greg. I pity any individual you may counsel who is less gifted than you, or a brother who has deficiencies comes to you. What comfort can you give them. There is no empathy or understanding.

It must be hard being you since according to your words which you write, everyone needs to measure up to you. Sad. Dreadfully sad. How can you even call yourself a servant. When you write against me there is not a single bit of humility there.

1 Timothy 1:15. Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. Of whom I am the worst.

Believe it Greg. You are, just as I am the very ugliest of sinners and Christ died for the both of us. Yet you are so focused on my typing. My grammar. My unintelligible, incomprehensible writing.

You lost a blog reader. And whatever respect I had for you. I remember in Seminary reading about you and your disgust over the brothers making fun of each other. I felt sorry for you. I don't anymore. My brothers love me. We support each other in the ministry.

Luther Rocks says you support Lutheran Orthodoxy, well that may be, but you don't support those who preach it like me and hundreds of others in the WELS.

God's Blessings to you Greg. Farewell.

A first Generation Pastor, proudly serving his flock. Faithfully administering the Means of Grace. Diligently studying the Word.

***

GJ - This melancholy post should remind everyone how the "everyone is forgiven, everyone is saved" people are so anxious to condemn, anonymously.

The WELS pastors act as if they are ferocious, but when asked about their doctrine and practice, they melt like Jello left on a south-facing window sill.

The Wisconsin Sect wants its workers to be passive robots who repeat what they are told.

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Anonymous Name-Caller Quits Ichabod":

About the WELS speller.

The JW's used to say until recently that JW's ought not pursue a college degree, since that was too worldly (translation: they lose too many members in college). Now, however, they say that a college degree is like a high school degree, so college is allowed, but they say JW's ought not pursue grad school since that's too worldly.

The WELS had a simpler solution to that problem: just don't teach grammar and spelling properly, and they'll never make it to graduate school. That's partly why there's a dearth of doctors in the WELS. Also, they don't teach foreign languages well.

Unfortunately in this world, people use little tricks to separate the smart people from the dumb people, tricks they think are quick and reliable. Spelling and grammar are one, and another is the trick of having someone repeat back a list or a phone number or something, since supposedly if your short-term memory is bad, it doesn't matter whether your long-term memory is bad or good since your rate of learning is impeded by your short-term memory.

Another trick is how good a talker you are, and whether you have brain freeze. When Perry stumbled during a debate, it was all over for his candidacy since people make their judgment on such slight things. Someone objected to this test once saying that if it were true, radio show hosts were smarter than Einstein.

***

GJ - One WELS teacher said that they were forced to pass along the Wisconsin royalty, the children of officials, no matter how horrible they were in academics.

There is a certain pride in being stupid too. It is a way of getting out of any discussions. "I am stupid, but fat." Or - "I don't remember that." Or - "He was appointed by the Holy Spirit, so who am I to argue with God's decision."

Supposedly the Protest'ant split made WELSians suspicious of anyone with intellect, since that group was considered intellectual.

Whatever the reasons, the current attitude of passive obedience is certain to drive away any members or pastors who can think above the repeat-after-me level. Some will be beaten like rented mules and driven away, but others will simply stop showing up. For instance, one alumnus of Wisco will no longer go back because "It's not my school anymore."

Synods and Individuals Do Not Establish Doctrine. They Cannot Vote on Doctrine

2012-01-25T18:40:00.000-06:00

Gregory the Theologian.
His name day is today, a fact ignored by the sinuflecting McCain.

Someone set off alarm bells in writing me about when UOJ was "established doctrine" because a synodical convention voted on it.

That is as logical as saying abortion is moral because the Supreme Court made it legal. They also legalized sodomy, in a rare reversal, so what does that say about right and wrong in the halls of justice?

The only true, certain doctrine is revealed by the Holy Spirit in the Scriptures. The issue is not agreement with me or with a particular synod, but harmony with the Word of God.

The Book of Concord is not the same as the Word of God, because it is a confession of faith, a response to the Word of God. However, the Lutheran Symbols--as they are sometimes called--are unique in being the standard (a ruled norm) for all Lutherans. Some groups or nations stop with the Augsburg Confession, but that is a minor issue, since the Concordists and Luther himself were "theologians of the Augsburg Confession."

A multi-nation, multi-generational confession is quite powerful in its effect, as we can see in the Apostles, Nicene, and Athanasian Creeds. When people add or distort words to meet their political needs, as WELS did with two creeds, the corruption is obvious, making the original thought shine more brightly. The drunks who approved "fully human" are the professors who graduates that cannot write complete sentences. But that does not change Christian doctrine, which is taught by God, not by self-centered dimwits.

Before someone can start chattering about doctrine, he has to examine whether his opinions can be proven with the Word of God, in harmony with the Confessions. The Book of Concord keeps us from making the same mistakes of the past, repeating the old heresies dressed up in a different set of clothes. Huberism came back as Halle double-justification, which was born-again as Waltherism.

Honoring the Confessions is saying, "I realize many giants of Biblical and patristic learning studied and discussed these issues for years. I honor their learning before I open my mouth to speak." For instance, we know that the fantasy of universal absolution was rebuked by Luther in the Book of Concord and by an editor of the Book of Concord. Anyone who wants to go against Luther and Leyser must show himself more skillful in his exegetical knowledge, with some evidence about how those experts in justification got it so wrong.

Repeating the talking points of a tiny, shrinking Midwestern sect is not the same as teaching sound doctrine. Those who cling to synodical positions are repeating the Roman Catholic error of circular reasoning. "This is true because Holy Mother Synod said it is true. You are a heretic because Holy Mother Synod said you are a heretic."

Church projects more challenging after the boom times

2012-01-25T15:23:00.001-06:00

Church projects more challenging after the boom times:

Around the mid-1990s, a building boom took off for churches in Bismarck and Mandan. At least 40 took on remodeling or additions to their facilities. Though some were modest, close to half of those projects topped the $1 million mark. A few reached the $3 million-$4 million territory.

That boom was part of a national trend of church-building, said the Rev. Tim Johnson, who has been interim senior pastor at Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Bismarck since February 2010.

However, around 2008, as the economy soured, churches around the country still wanting to build found that lenders had grown more cautious. And in some cases, churches that had undertaken large building projects found themselves struggling under the debt load.

Good Shepherd broke ground for a second campus, called Horizon, along North Washington Street north of 43rd Avenue in 2005, anticipating that the galloping growth in new subdivisions in north Bismarck would call for a second facility. At that time, Good Shepherd, across from the YMCA at Washington Street and Divide Avenue, was bursting at the seams, struggling with parking and adding worship times to accommodate its numbers.

A new north campus seemed like a logical solution.

In hindsight, it turned out to be a financial overreach, Johnson said.

"It was a good idea, a good dream, but the growth didn't come as expected," he said. The financial burden of carrying the $2.7 million building became undoable.

Read more
http://bismarcktribune.com/news/local/church-projects-more-challenging-after-the-boom-times/article_7c712584-43ba-11e1-afd2-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz1kVY2fslX

'via Blog this'

***

We're in your synod, wasting your offering dollars,
kneeling before false teachers,
because we love Jesus so much.

GJ - WELS waited for the bottom of the real estate market and bought a new headquarters building, PU Towers, and ended up with an unsold Love Shack. Savvy money management, that.

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Church projects more challenging after the boom ti...":

That reminds me. I wonder how Holy Word's church plant is proceeding in Austin, Texas--the branch of Holy Word that is only a couple of miles from Doebler's Rock n Roll church in Round Rock, Texas:

http://www.holyword.net/site/cpage.asp?cpage_id=140015469&sec_id=140005270

---

Nearby, Doebler had real, live bunnies to pet for Easter,
and an egg hunt.
Top that!

LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Church projects more challenging after the boom ti...":

They have had to apply paddles on more than one occasion as I fear the north campus is in cardiac arrest. Attendance was 89 on the 15th of January, but before that only in the 40's. They went so far as to eliminate the 8 am service at the south campus (sounds so metro..I know) during December to jump start attendance at north.

You know, most people just want to gather at the feet of Jesus and hear the Word and then share it with those in their circles when the opportunity presents itself. They are not all into being something that the Lord may not have intended them for.

***

GJ - I am trying to figure out WELS stewardship, with that expert CEO (ex-SP) Gurgle helping out at Holy Word. After I made fun of all the spelling mistakes in Gurgle's ecstatic emails, I stopped getting them from my source.

Do you think HE is fight4god? No, God called Gurgle's entire family into the ministry, and fight4god is the only one in his.

Holy Word decided to expand into the same suburb as a new WELS mission, which is still trying to get on its feet. To do this, Kudu Don Patterson had to raise a lot of money. So he gave the WELS-LCMS fundraising business $40,000 of offering money to raise the dough. Questioning that fat fee meant excommunication.

But Holy Word is so needy that they must have a free vicar each year, courtesy of WELS offering money.

Seven Marks of the Church « The First Premise

2012-01-25T14:55:00.001-06:00

Seven Marks of the Church « The First Premise:

In Part III of “On Councils and the Church,” Luther identifies “seven marks of the church,” of which the One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church can be recognized:

'via Blog this'Read more here.

The Professor Speaks

2012-01-25T14:54:00.001-06:00

Adolph Hoenecke has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

Yikes, I hope this is not one of my former students! Fight4god, why don't you come back after you've tightened up your grammar.

Remember, your moderator is a college professor. He will nail you everytime, as well he should. I always double check grammar and spelling when I post here. It's made me a more careful writer, I think.

Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymous WELS Martin Luther College Graduate

2012-01-25T11:09:00.002-06:00

fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Mark Jeske Is the Unseen Presence in All This":

[Sentence fragment ->] Through hatred and false claims. This is the way of current blogging. [Unsupported accusation. ->] Use a general comment which has absolutely no foundation. I have gone through MLC, [semi-colon needed, not a comma] I have worshiped there every day and night [Really?]. I have listened to law and gospel every day, but yet [but yet is a new form of English] you claim that most kids there don't experience Lutheran Worship [worship]. Are you there? Do you speak with those who preach there every day and night? do [Do] you listen to chapel pod casts? [No one is allowed to unbend the knee before Holy Mother WELS: infallible, indefectible, immaculate, ineluctable.]

Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura are preached. they [They] are taught, they dominate our education. [So why is a D.Min. from Fuller Seminary teaching "evangelism?"]

It really sounds to me that you are making a law concerning worship, that you have the Lutheran Rule and everyone else is to follow.

But when it comes to Lutheran Worship [worship], there is freedom within the man made Liturgies [man-made liturgies- feel the contempt in "man-made"] that we follow. If Koine plays and more people [more people what? puke? clap? turn Babtist?] so be it, we have churches for the sick. The chapel doesn't schedule people to fill church but they schedule groups to enrich worship.

If I get Camp Phillip's praise band to enrich my worship service and more people come to that service, i [I] am only convinced more that my people are sinners and i [I] am the worst. What do you expect? that we will all be holy and blameless here on earth and we do all things for the right reasons? Do individuals tune into your webcast for the right reasons every sunday? [Sunday] i [I] would be confident in saying no. [How do you know, fight4god? Have you spoken with me or any listeners?]

I chuckle at your vile and distaste [vile is an adjective, but used here as a noun in parallel with distaste] for the WELS. You hope that the synod falls and is punished by God. [fight4god, you claim to be a mind and motive reader.] You claim that we believe everyone is saved by God before their coming to faith. [No, you claim that. DP Buchholz declared that in a convention paper.] That is simply false and not taught at Seminary and is not taught in Luther's Catechism. [I have documented many instances and given the citations. You simply deny the obvious. The Mequon website actually shows quotations about justification by faith being marked as "misleading."]

Your attacks on good men in the synod however is [the singular verb does not agree with the plural subject] ill founded. [This sentence is incomprehensible. You disagree with some of the men? ->] I don't disagree with some of your findings, but with many of the men that you attack as Church and Changers and Church Growth guys etc. not [Not] all of them are what you say they are. [<- This is another unwarranted claim.] I have spoken with them. I have worshiped at many of their churches. I would say as a pastor, I am do not [am do not?] appreciate empty songs, and fluffy blah sermons, and lovey dovey emotional experiences at church. If i [I] have read enough of your stuff you always paint with a broad brush regarding all of these men. [<-This is another accusation without any proof.] You are indeed wrong.

***

GJ - The Sausage Factory brags about their educational system, which is allegedly the envy of every denomination of the world. Third world chieftains and ox-cart owners send their sons to WELS so they can compete in the global economy.

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fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

You are so predictable greg! as i was writing in a flurry of thought and objection, i thought to myself "boy this is poorly written, but he's smart, he can decipher it and understand what i am talking about!"

but instead you did what you have done before, attack the grammar, punctuation, and then belittle the author's intelligence.

brilliant greg.

avoid debate, correct the grammar in comments made, belittle a pastor. just another day in your shoes eh?

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fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

my screen name is simply gleaned from one of my favorite hymns, Onward Christian Soldiers. Soldiers fight and also protect.

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GJ - You fight without discipline and run without shame, fight4god. You have not made a single argument, only some vague accusations and even vaguer defenses. We are all dying to know who these pastors are who are NOT Church and Change. And why not leave your name and congregation, o great fighter?

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rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

This young lad needs to learn that you do not bring a knife to a gunfight.

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Mark Jeske Is the Unseen Presence in All This":

fight4God said:

"You claim that we believe everyone is saved by God before their coming to faith. That is simply false and not taught at Seminary and is not taught in Luther's Catechism."

You are correct that it is not taught in Luther's Catechism. But you might want to try to untangle this mess taught by Seminary professors and other Synod officials:

"God has declared all guilty sinners not guilty by his gracious, saving work in Christ Jesus." (Lines 172-173)

- Translation Evaluation Committee; Pastor John A. Braun (NPH), Professor Kenneth A Cherney Jr. (WLS) Professor Thomas P. Nass (MLC) Pastor Joel V. Petermann (District President, MLC President-elect); Professor Paul O. Wendland (WLS President)

http://www.wels.net/sites/wels/files/BORAM2011_supplemental_translationevaluationcommittee.pdf

"The astonishing reality is that God has forgiven the sins of the whole world, whether people believe it or not." - Forward in Christ, October 2011. Forrest Bivens, (WLS)

At best these men are muddled in their understanding and teaching of justification by faith alone. At worst, they are teaching a false gospel.

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LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

fight4God? God doesn't need anyone fighting for Him much less winning souls for Him. This is a fallacy.

The argument for forms of worship is not the issue. The motivation is the issue. Sad to say WELS has gone headlong now into CGM as evidenced by the Evangelism Day itinerary.

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WELS church lady has left a new comment on your post "WELS Martin Luther College - What They Hid from th...":

Poor Stroh, Pastor GJ wasted all the yellow highlighter. I suppose the highlighter ran dry by the time Birkholz's name appeared. Yes, he was Michele Bachman's former pastor. Birkholz is close buddies with Mark Jeske. Birkholz is the adviser for Jeske's Grace In Action subversivness organization.

Bill Mier...I spoke to him in person last Sunday. He did a Kingdom Workers presentation for our adult members. I have high respect for those WELS members who involved with Builders For Christ. Builder's predates Kingdom Workers, yet Kingdom Workers controls Builders and other groups. These people are not fancy Church and Change types. They tend to be older adults who work for food and a place to stay.(some have RVs)

Oh, I happen to be a member of my church's evangelism committee. We REFUSE to use those gimmicks presented by Church And Change Evangelism workshops. Keeping the church clean and having the pastor speak with all new guests are common sense.

Long-story-short, Mark Jeske is a the top of all that is evil in the WELS. You may refer to my previous comments concerning Jeske.

In Christ,
Rebecca

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Mark Jeske Is the Unseen Presence in All This":

fight4God,

Take some time to read through the posts on this site re UOJ. Then/or compare and contrast what Bivens said...

"The astonishing reality is that God has forgiven the sins of the whole world, whether people believe it or not." - Forward in Christ, October 2011. Forrest Bivens

...with what Luther said:

"If I now seek the forgiveness of sins, I do not run to the cross, for I will not find it given there. Nor must I hold to the suffering of Christ as Dr. Karlstadt trifles, in knowledge or remembrance, for I will not find it there either. But I will find in the sacrament or the gospel the word which distributes, presents, offers, and gives to me that forgiveness which was won on the cross" ("Against the Heavenly Prophets" AE 40:214).

I'll stick with Luther. He wasn't an Enthusiast.

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Mark Jeske Is the Unseen Presence in All This":

fight4God said,

"No one is saying that everyone is saved whether they like it or not,..."

AZ/CA District President Jon Buchholz is:

In contrast to the “Jesus Saves” churches, we don’t preach a salvation that is incomplete and just waiting for the sinner to do something to complete the transaction. We proclaim boldly, “Jesus Saved,” past tense, finished, certain."

http://www.wlsessays.net/files/BuchholzJustification.pdf

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fight4God has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

still hung up on capitalization huh? too bad.

anyways, to DP Buckholz's paper:

I agree with what he wrote. thank you again for leading me again to a well written paper. Reread the first half of the paper and it is quite clear is isn't an advocate of everyone is going to heaven whether they like it or not. He said that salvation is not "waiting for the sinner to complete the transaction." What's wrong with that? Sounds like a Sola Fide, Sola Gratia statement to me. Sounds like a defense against the synergistic ways of the reformed church body to me. Does not sound like he is advocating all are saved but that Christ completed the work on Calvary. There is nothing more that you or I can do to complete the work. It is done.

DP said on pg. 7 part 1. "There is one justification; it is an objective, universal reality, completed by Christ at Calvary, and appropriated subjectively through faith." How do we read this and the rest of his paper and continue to think he is advocating all are saved and will go to heaven.

Can you not see what he said in the quotation? He is stressing how the work of Salvation is done, that's it. Christ's saving work is done. Nothing more to do. And this salvation is ours through faith.

DP Buckholz has made this clear more than several times in his paper.

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GJ - Har. Har. You cannot spell the name of a DP correctly. I suggest that you go to a good school and learn the basics of English. You are the poster-child for the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Google search is your friend. Or just read the tag on his shirt in the graphic.

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WELS church lady has left a new comment on your post "Here Is My Chance To Grade a Paper from an Anonymo...":

Thanks for the clarification KC. Yes, there are too many Mark's, Marcus's, and Holz's in the WELS.

In Christ,

Rebecca

Son of Oral Roberts Arrested on DUI Charge - US - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com. Filled with the Holy Spirits. Edit a Hymnal?

2012-01-25T07:02:00.001-06:00

Son of Oral Roberts Arrested on DUI Charge - US - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com:

Richard Roberts, the son of the late evangelist Oral Roberts, was arrested Tuesday for allegedly driving under the influence of alcohol.

An Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper stopped the 63-year-old just past midnight driving 93 miles per hour in his Mercedes-Benz.

According to the arrest report, Roberts failed a breathalyzer and field sobriety test.

The officer "detected the strong odor of an alcoholic beverage about Roberts' breath and person," the report said.

Roberts served as president of Oral Roberts University for 15 years before stepping down in 2007.

He currently hosts a nightly television show called, "The Place for Miracles: Your Hour of Healing."

"Our prayers go out to Richard and Lindsay Roberts and their entire family as they face this life challenge," ORU officials said in a statement. "May God's grace help them as they work towards healing."

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Mark Jeske Is the Unseen Presence in All This

2012-01-24T22:52:00.000-06:00

FC Ep V has left a new comment on your post "WELS Martin Luther College - What They Hid from th...":

I get uncomfortable when worship and outreach are mentioned in the same context. The amount of Church and Changers listed is pure evidence of CGM not going away on the Synodical level -- especially when they use praise band type music in their chapel services (not to mention the addition of the new screen), especially on evangelism day.

I still recount when Koine came to play (lead worship) at evening chapel services. On a normal night the chapel would be pretty thin. But when Koine came the place was PACKED, I mean PACKED! If it's "all about the Word and not the music" like the Pietist WELSians claim, then why isn't the chapel packed during a "traditional" evening chapel?

"Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions...For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly [appetite - NIV1984], and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple." (Romans 16:17-19 NKJV)

Their "own appetite" is our desire to change things to our preferences -- including our worship forms that seem attractive (rapping worship, rock worship, oldies worship, etc.). It's attractive *because* it's worldly! But I submit that because it's worldly it suppresses the Gospel and hides the Gospel. Is that really what we want to be doing?

Doctrine and practice (worship) are linked despite how much the Pietist, WELS Lutherans whine that it isn't.

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GJ - Have real sermons and liturgical worship been tried and found wanting - or not tried at all?

I doubt whether most kiddies have experienced Lutheran worship in WELS, and they are not going to with the current academic and synodical leadership.

What does the college promote at every opportunity? NW Prep was doing the same thing under Mark Schroeder - CCM.