Is Ed Stetzer Lying About the Church and Change Conference?

Stetzer used this painting of Luther on his blog.

A Little Love for the Lutherans?
Monday August 4, 2008 ~ 8 Comments
I like Lutherans.

In one of my first blog posts (about one year ago now), I wrote about my time speaking with their leadership at Concordia University. I talked about what I learned from one of their bishops and how they rebuked me.

I am excited about speaking to the Missouri Synod Lutherans North American Mission Executives in St. Louis in April 2009.

Also, I will be with another tribe of Lutherans in 2009. In this case, I will be with some Wisconsin Synod leaders at a meeting hosted in Milwaukee by a group called WELS Church and Change in November 2009.

(I am sure that someone will tell me the differences along the way, and it may include a famous episode of the T.V. show Cheers, where Woody and his fiancé discover they are from different Lutheran denomination.)

My favorite Cheers / Lutheran exchange:

Woody - "Ask her why she thinks the Book of Concord is not in line with the Scriptures!"
Kelly - "Because it's not."

Woody - "HERETIC !!!"


Good people, those Lutherans.

And, they (the Missouri Synod) have a plan for planting 2000 churches by 2017, the anniversary of something in Europe.

So, I received the email below and answered with some ideas from Planting Missional Churches. However, I think it would be helpful to hear from you on some of the job descriptions you would want for a core team. I will probably use them for an article as well, so be sure to put your name a church if you have any insights.

Here is the email. Please take a look and let's give a little blog help to some Lutherans who love Jesus and want to plant churches.



My name is Dick Evers, and I am part of The 72-Partners on the Road (formerly Harvesters for Christ) a ministry of LCMS World Mission.

It is our understanding that you have considerable expertise in church planting.
The 72 teams provide training to existing congregations to begin, enhance or revitalize their outreach activities. You can check out our website: www.lcms.org/The72. There are about 70 of us, located in various areas of the country.

Our ministry was recently asked by the LCMS to get involved with our congregations who want to sponsor a church plant. We are trying to establish a training program for The 72 teams who will work with the congregation and the church planters. As you will note from the attached "Areas of Training" information which discusses what we do, we believe we can be of real help to the church planting teams and the church planter.

We understand that the congregation is to provide a "core" group (40 members or more) and a launch team to work with the church planter. However, we are not exactly sure of the responsibilities of the core group and the launch team. We want to gear our training to help both groups be better prepared, as well as the church planter. We will be only acting in a "helping equip" role, not doing any supervising.

Can you give me any direction as to how we might find the basic "job descriptions" of the "core" group and the launch team? By knowing more about what the core group and launch team are supposed to do (or what additional help they could be to the church plant with more training), we can modify our existing modules, or create new ones, to help equip them.

Any information or direction you can provide us on how to find the "job descriptions" or any other comments you have that might be helpful to us would be greatly appreciated.

May God continue to bless your ministry,

Dick Evers
The 72-Partners on the Road

***

GJ - Church and Change fans have been trying to deny their 2009 conference is planned, even though it was discussed by the WELS COP and posted as a date on Stetzer's calendar. Thanks to my extensive research, we now have a date when the conference invite was firmed up - August 4, 2008.

Remember that when Church and Change denies the obvious again.

Of course, Missouri is lapping this up, too. As Luther said, when the Means of Grace are ignored, all kinds of foul errors rush in to take their place.

But Wait! There's More!

Board Reader

Thread profile page for " Just committed to speak for the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod in Fall of 2009. 08:02 PM July 26, 2008 from web " on http://twitter.com/edstetzer. This report page is a snippet summary view from a single thread " Just committed to speak for the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod in Fall of 2009. 08:02 PM July 26, 2008 from web ", located on the Message Board at http://twitter.com/edstetzer. This thread profile page shows the thread statistics for: Total Authors, Total Thread Posts, and Thread Activity, which are reported in a table below.

Ed Stetzer May Not Be The Man

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Joe Krohn--Laveen Veteran, Rock and Roll Church Me...":

I vehemently disagree with you, Joe.

Pastor Jackson has the courage to speak for many in WELS. He is merely exposing error - which we are commanded to do in Scripture.
Many of us have pastors that, unfortunately, for whatever reason, are afraid to speak out.

What, exactly, is it that makes your pastor and congregation WANT to be a member of WELS? Normally when people want to be a part of something they do not hide it but happily proclaim it.

I became WELS as an adult. I would have felt deceived if I first learned I was really Lutheran after being a part of a church. That happened to me when I was checking out a "community church" and eventually learned it was really Baptist.

Do you show prospective members your constitution? It surely says you a member of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, right? With your adult confirmations do they not take a vow that they accept the LUTHERAN confessions?

When I did not have a church I would have been very hurt if I was lured to a fellowship or ministry or whatever you want to call it under the pretense of caring for my "perceived felt needs" and then had the gospel sprung on me once you felt I was comfortable. I would have fled as far and as fast as I could. I would never do that to a stranger of even someone I loved.

Your congragation and others are driving away the very people you once evangelized.
WELS is sick and has a cancer that is metasticizing and spreading like the tributaries of a river. WELS is a manmade institution. What a blessing that the Word of the Lord stands forever.

Obama To Start Internship - Satire from The Onion - Mentions UOP Online

Joe Krohn--Laveen Veteran, Rock and Roll Church Member--Converts with His Love

Weaned on a lemon, Joe's teeth are on edge.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Beyond Belief - Is Anyone Literate at Church and C...":

Greg,

I finally got to read your ‘brief’ bio. I should have read it before ever posting. It was a revelation.

I was correct in assuming that you harbor ill feelings toward WELS. I can’t say I blame you. Everyone who has ever been a serious worker in the church has their ‘war stories’. There was a good one in the Bible between Peter and Paul. The difference between them and you however is striking. How we deal with things in life is 1 percent what happens to us and 99 percent how we deal with it. That translates to ATTITUDE.

[GJ - Membership at Rock and Roll has endowed Joe Krohn with mystical, mind-reading powers. He even can discern motivation.]

This blog shows that you have a bad attitude about WELS. It shows that whatever happened, you have not moved on and shown forgiveness. You continue to spew hatred, slander, half truths and a toxicity that is un-Lutheran and un-Christian.

[GJ - Show us the way to a higher truth, a greater love, Joe.]

Whether you want to admit it or not, CTR and CrossWalk are Confessional Lutheran Churches. No where (sic) in the Bible does it say we have to have “Lutheran” in our name. We Baptize and we partake of Lord’s Supper the same way WELS always has and they are NOT ordinances like you are inferring about us. Our style of worship is a little different. There is no prescription in the Bible about style of worship. We still offer the forgiveness of sins; absolution; say the creeds and Lord’s Prayer every Sunday. How we choose to promote it is none of your business. You relinquished your right to complain about us when you quit WELS. (This is like not voting in an election and then complaining who got in to office.)

[GJ - This Fuddle-mentalist argument is not surprising from the Southern Babtist Central District of WELS. Published false doctrine can be publicly reproved and should be publicly admonished. Check the Large Catechism, 8th Commandment. WELS cannot claim to be Lutheran while promoting Church and Change Babtist conferences.]

How is it that you apply your dose of judgment on us because a few people attended a conference (for educational purposes) where there were speakers who were not of our faith and yet it was OK for you to attend and support (direct or indirect tuitions) a liberal ‘Lutheran’ college (for educational purposes); attend and support (direct or indirect tuitions) a divinity school that is part of a bigger school that is supported by global elitists and an agenda that answers to Rome (for educational purposes); attend and support (direct or indirect tuitions) Notre Dame; a Roman Catholic institution (for educational purposes); and now works for a non-denominational Christian institution that promotes the very doctrine that you accuse us of following. You say you are conservative, but somewhere along the line (maybe all the RC indoctrination) I think you got it mixed up with legalism. I would like to know how you ever got into a Lutheran parish in the first place with that kind of education.

[GJ - I would like to see the conferences and associations of Pastor Matt posted on his website. They used to be on his Church From Scratch website. And why does he hide his WELS education and ordination? Ashamed of the Sausage Factory?]

It is extreme attitudes such as yours that have stunted the growth of true Lutheranism.

[GJ - The Church Shrinkage Movement has had a negative effect on its own numbers, which are supposedly the measure of its worth. Spare us, Joe, from your true Lutheranism. As Schmauck said, the farther people get away from the Confessions, the more they claim they are the true Lutherans, as you just did.]

You sir, need to come down from your ivory tower and remove that Ponderosa Pine that grows up along The Rim that is stuck in your eye.

[GJ - I feel the warm glow of love from Rock and Roll Church, Joe. I only hope you are an usher, so your friendliness, wit, and compassion can make the Word effective. That is what your gurus in the Babtist church claim.]

Sincerely Yours,
Joe [Krohn, former CrossWalk Laveen member, current Rock and Roll Church member]

Hate going to church? Rock and Roll understands.

***

Anonymous Supports Joe the Rocker
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Joe Krohn--Laveen Veteran, Rock and Roll Church Me...":

How telling that the Reverend Jackson (in my best Rush Limbaugh voice) failed to even come close to answering Joe's question about his affiliations. The Reverend Jackson (in my best Rush Limbaugh voice) refused to deny those affiliations because then he would be proven a hypocrite, as he himself says that an official denial proves that whatever is being denied is true. So the Reverend Jackson (in my best Rush Limbaugh voice) decided it best to gloss over the issue. And you say the WELS/LCMS/ELCA/ELS cover things up?

[GJ - It's all there in the bio, which is frequently read. For some reason, people who cannot spell or use good English are deeply offended by degrees from accredited schools.]

How telling that the Reverend Jackson (in my best Rush Limbaugh voice) failed to directly respond to the points Joe made. Instead, the Reverend Jackson (in my best Rush Limbaugh voice) continued his baseless bashing of Joe, Christ the Rock, Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, and WELS. The Reverend Jackson (in my best Rush Limbaugh voice) is no different than a politician who evades a question or point of debate because he knows he's wrong, but is too proud to admit it.

I nominate Joe to be considered the "Joe 'the' Plumber" of this putrid blog.

***

GJ - I wonder if Joe is seconding Joe. It's hard to tell without a name. Lutherans without a confession often post without a name. I found out Joe's last name only by accident. What scares them?

At least they have Lutheran materials to read here, something entirely lacking at Church and Change, Rock and Roll Church, and their synod-within-a-synod.

UOJ Fanatics Divided on LutherQuest (sic)

Jack Cardinal Cascione, Cascione Synod


LutherQuest (sic) is enjoying a dust-up over the implications of Universal Objective Justification--forgiveness without faith, without the Word, without the Means of Grace.

Jack Cascione, who calls himself Cardinal, is fighting the denizens of his own creation. I cannot be sure what the key issues are, because the participant are all fairly confused.

The basic UOJ claim is:

Scripture teaches that God has already declared the whole world to be righteous in Christ, Rom. 5:19; 2 Cor. 5:18-21; Rom. 4:25; that therefore not for the sake of their good works, but without the works of the Law, by grace, for Christ's sake, He justifies, that is, accounts as righteous, all those who believe, accept, and rely on, the fact that for Christ's sake their sins are forgiven.

This declaration of righeousness without the Means of Grace is, by definition in the Book of Concord, Enthusiasm and false doctrine. The error is derived from Walther, F. Pieper, and Pietism. Both men came from Pietism and never recovered fully from it.

In the 19th century, supposedly conservative Lutherans quoted Pietists all the time. Walther never criticized Spener by name, either because he honored Spener or because Spener's name was above reproach at that time.

UOJ became more ridiculous over time, but its origins go back to 1850 or so, no earlier. Luther and his followers did not teach UOJ. UOJ is not in the Bible, Luther, the Book of Concord, Chemnitz, Gerhard, or Calov.

The old Synodical Conference (LCMS, WELS, ELS) was weak on the efficacy of the Word, so that one doctrinal error influenced many other areas, such as their strange teaching of Receptionism.

The old Synodical Conference was also comfortable with Reformed theologians known to be conservative. The reason may be their origin in Europe when the Union Church was taking over completely. Yes, I realize the Missourians and Buffalosians were escaping the Union Church, but they took a lot of it with them. Otten and his friend Bischoff are examples of men who quote the Reformed without blushing.

LutherQuest (sic)
Erich Heidenreich, a dentist, made his debut on LQ questioning UOJ. He had many thoughtful posts. He then disappeared and came back retracting everything. He became a UOJ Enthusiast.

Rolf Preus took both sides of the issue, agreeing with justification by faith at one point. He also repented.

Jay Webber has appeared during the discussion to quote Pieper. That is like quoting Al Gore as an authority on man-made global warning.

Luther is never quoted on LutherQuest (sic). That is why I use (sic) after its name each time.

Cascione seems to be bending toward justification by faith, because the others are insisting that everyone in the world enjoys objective imputed righteousness.

UOJ is the doctrinal position of Church and Change. A cursory reading of Valleskey and Bivens will reveal that both Fuller students are ardent UOJ advocates and Church Shrinkers.

Obama Summarized