Sunday, June 2, 2013

Haunting Communion Hymn by John Huss - Whose Statue Was a Rallying Point Against Communism in Czechoslovakia



"Jesus Christ, Our Blessed Savior"
by John Huss, 1373?-1415

1. Jesus Christ, our blessed Savior,
Turned away God's wrath forever;
By His bitter grief and woe
He saved us from the evil Foe.

2. As His pledge of love undying
He, this precious food supplying,
Gives His body with the bread
And with the wine the blood He shed.

3. Whoso to this Board repaireth
May take heed how He prepareth;
For if he does not believe,
Then death for life he shall recieve.

4. Praise the Father, who from heaven
Unto us such food hath given
And, to mend what we have done,
Gave into death His only Son.

5. Thou shalt hold with faith unshaken
That this food is to be taken
By the sick who are distrest,
By hearts that long for peace and rest.

6. Christ says: "Come, all ye that labor,
And receive My grace and favor;
They who feel no want nor ill
Need no physician's help nor skill.

7. "Useless were for thee My Passion,
If thy works thy weal could fashion.
This feast is not spread for thee
If thine own Savior thou wilt be."

8. If thy heart this truth professes
And thy mouth thy sin confesses,
His dear guest thou here shalt be,
And Christ Himself shall banquet thee.

Hymn #311
The Lutheran Hymnal
Text: Heb. 10:12
Author: John Huss, 1415, cento, asc.
Translated by: unknown
Titled: "Iesus Christus, nostra salus"
Tune: "Jesus Christus, unser Heiland"
1st Published in: Geistliche Lieder
Town: Wittenberg, 1535


Luther admitted to being a Hussite and faced the same fate -
being burned at the stake as a heretic.

Cacophony Defined - Round Rock Rocks - Patterson Moves In

Sunglasses can be unusually reflective,
revealing more than they conceal.


Doebler rocking with No Ordinary King from Christ the Rock. See the link.

Not far from DP Patterson..

Bend the Rules To Accommodate Apostasy.
Quotas Work. What Is Your Quota System?


ELCA Bishop Guy Erwin with a bust of
what's-his-name.
Quota jobs keep others out.


narrow-minded has left a new comment on your post "Legalistic for a Time, Then Anything Goes - ELCA a...":

"Someone on the ALPB Forum made this point about Guy Erwin - all the long-standing rules were broken to ordain him in a hurry (MDiv, CPE requirement, etc)"

I also find it ironic how rules are bent to accommodate apostasy.

One particular thing I noticed from Pr. Rydecki's excellent paper was that he specified Huber not being an outright Universalist at that time. However, allowing the slightest error to get its foot in the door will always lead to the worst possible conclusion, given enough time.

Tolerance of UOJ will eventually lead to Universalism, as it already has in ELCA/ECUSA. How long until the "conservatives" become outright Universalists.

"Selling" church will eventually lead to a Father's Day motorcycle giveaway (this actually happened here at a local church). Allowing a few praise songs from the rock band will eventually lead to popcorn and bagel worship. Occasionally substituting the Liturgy with a pep talk will lead to anthropocentric rah-rah sessions. Female ordination leads to homosexual ordination. Gospel Reductionism leads to Antinomianism.

***

GJ - In the 1960s, I left one of the proto-Church Growh churches, where the pastor "performed all the marriages," and spoke at the Kiwanis lunches (same speech), and indulged in similar gimmicks. He may have driven down the aisle on a motorcycle. I know he arrived at church in a fire truck, wearing his white chaplain's hat. Peter Pan (WELS) might want to try that. He is a fire department chaplain too. His favorite websty is Babtist.

That  Moline congregation is/was Disciples of Christ, belonging to a denomination that affiliated with the almost-Unitarian United Church of Christ (once Congregational, plus some other old mainline groups). The Disciples managed to drive off their Biblical ministers while retaining the radicals, who clearly ran the show.

I was so impressed with the Lutheran liturgical service at the congregation I joined on my own - LCA but  still Augustana Synod. I remember members saying, "We're Swedish but not like Sweden, if you know what I mean."

Now I am one of the hold-outs, using a traditional Lutheran hymnal and liturgical service. No feminist creed. No hymns about planning. No praise band.

And I see the so-called conservative Lutherans busy training their members to leave the shattered remains of Lutherdom for generic, market-oriented, life-coaching Protestantism.

Quotas Work - Look at ELCA
ELCA began in 1987 with a quota system in place, and that included a quota for active homosexual and lesbians on all the controlling commissions and committees. Why not? WELS hero Richard Jungkuntz, who was passionate about UOJ, chaired the board of the first gay Lutheran seminary - Seminex.

The original rules for ordination meant that Guy Erwin could not become a pastor because he co-habited with another man. This did not keep him from ELCA parish positions, and his lobbying group overturned the rules in 2009.

His lobbying group (or groups) represent perhaps 2% of the population, so how could they dominate an entire denomination that still adhered to heterosexual marriage when it was formed? The quotas meant that a 2% faction could force its position on everyone until anyone questioning it would be automatically excluded from being on the same commission.

The new rubric is that someone cannot be silent on activism but must loudly agree with it or be condemned as a bigot.

The same radicalism has slowly overturned anything worthwhile in WELS and Missouri, using UOJ as their battle cry. I have traced its cancerous growth, accompanied by Church Growth, so I will not repeat the history lesson. Quotas work in WELS and Missouri too - not to mention the micro-mini factions like the Little Sect on the Prairie. Pope John the Malefactor is a UOJ Stormtrooper, and Jay Webber is his prophet.

Have you noticed how the lop-sided smile turns up on apostates?
It reveals an ambiguous attitude. Block one half of Bell's face.
That is the sad part of the personality.

Jeske's twisted smile speaks volumes.


The First Sunday after Trinity. The Rich Man and Lazarus.
Luke 16:19-31

"To Abrahm's bosom bear me home."
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2013/04/norma-boecklers-new-book-treasury-of.html

The First Sunday after Trinity, 2013


Pastor Gregory L. Jackson




The Hymn # 427     How Firm a Foundation                 2:18
The Confession of Sins
The Absolution
The Introit p. 16
The Gloria Patri
The Kyrie p. 17
The Gloria in Excelsis
The Salutation and Collect p. 19
The Epistle and Gradual       
The Gospel              
Glory be to Thee, O Lord!
Praise be to Thee, O Christ!
The Nicene Creed             p. 22
The Sermon Hymn #429            Lord, Thee I Love            2.54

 Faith and Love

The Communion Hymn # 311            Jesus Christ              2:79
The Preface p. 24
The Sanctus p. 26
The Lord's Prayer p. 27
The Words of Institution
The Agnus Dei p. 28
The Nunc Dimittis p. 29
The Benediction p. 31
The Hymn #347   Jesus Priceless Treasure                     2:77




KJV 1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us. 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

KJV Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

First Sunday After Trinity

Lord God, heavenly Father, we beseech Thee so to rule and govern our hearts by Thy Holy Spirit, that we may not, like the rich man, hear Thy word in vain, and become so devoted to things temporal as to forget things eternal; but that we readily and according to our ability minister to such as are in need, and not defile ourselves with surfeiting and pride; in trial and misfortune keep us from despair, and grant us to put our trust wholly in Thy fatherly help and grace, so that in faith and Christian patience we may overcome all things, through Thy Son, Jesus Christ, our Lord, who liveth and reigneth with Thee and the Holy Ghost, one true God, world without end. Amen.



Faith and Love

KJV Luke 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

This parable is one with significant details, each detail adding to the lesson taught by Jesus about faith and love.

The anti-hero of this story is the rich man. He is not condemned for being rich, but for how he lives and treats others. Marxists love to condemn wealth, as they did with the Tsar of Russia. He had an enormous income, but he was also required to support the entire Russian Ballet by himself, paying all costs. In contrast, the puritanical emperor, called Julian the Apostate, fired all his staff at once, throwing them into poverty.

The way this rich man lived was one of complete hedonism. He dressed in costly garments when such things cost a fortune and most people had one change of clothing. If you want to see how few clothes people had, even when they lived in large homes, look at the size of their closets. Some Civil War veterans wore their uniforms for years because they no other clothes. One LCMS leader was famous for wearing yellow leather pants until they were stolen from him so members never had to see them again.

The rich man also dined sumptuously every day. This detail – every day – is also important. He might have thrown feasts for everyone, as important people do. When they show very large homes on TV, the narrator is always anxious to say how these homes were used to have social/business meetings of several hundred people at once. I have seen articles that discuss whether a home was good for 50 to 100 people for a gathering, or up to 500.

The rich man fed himself very well – but no one else is mentioned.

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

Lazarus is sickly beggar in this story. He was placed at the gate, where everyone could see him, coming and going, so he might be given something to eat, something spare to keep him warm. He would have been glad enjoy some of the leftovers from the rich man’s table. The stray dogs, which were loathed by the people of the day (for being scroungers of food and likely diseased) licked his sores, as dogs will. In other words, Lazarus was so lowly that the lowliest animal took pity on him – but the rich man did not.

The rich man led an exemplary life, as Luther noted, because nothing is said about sinful behavior. He was not a Prodigal Son, not a thief or murderer. But he had no faith, which is proven by his complete lack of compassion for Lazarus at his gate. This same behavior is seen today by the clergy who gather the richest rewards for themselves when their own brother clergy are trying to decide between food and medicine when they get their pay.

The WELS and LCMS district presidents dine and live in great luxury on the offerings of members when taking their winter vacations. Church officials make sure they have the highest salaries and benefits. Luther noted the same in his day among the unbelieving church leaders.



Now all unbelieving people are like this rich hypocrite. Unbelief cannot do nor be different than this rich man is pictured and set forth by his life. And especially is this the character of the clergy-, as we see before our eyes, who never do a truly good work, but only seek a good time, never serving nor profiting any one; but reversing the order they want everybody to serve them. Like harpies they only claw everything into their own pockets; and like the old adage runs they “rob the poor of his purse.” They are not moved in the least by the poverty of others. And although some have not expensive food and raiment, yet they do not lack will power and the spirit of action; for they imitate the rich, the princes and the lords, and do many hypocritically good works by founding institutions and building churches, with which they conceal the great rogue, the wolf of unbelief; so that they become obdurate and hardened and are of no use to anybody.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

The state of each man in the story is portrayed by their end. Poor Lazarus is a believer who is carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man is tormented in eternity.

How do we know that Lazarus had faith? He accepted his life in humility, instead of sneaking into the rich man’s house to steal from it. I recall a minister in training describing how he stole from the business where he worked – they paid him poorly and they had plenty to spare. That is how Lazarus might have been.

How do we know the rich man did not have faith? If he had genuine faith in Christ, he would have showm mercy to the man that he and his servants saw constantly at his gate. Faith necessarily produces love at its first fruit, and that love cares for the neighbor and seeks to serve him.

Since this is a fictional story, this details are allegorical but easy to apply as the difference between faith and unbelief.

How has Lazarus shown love to others? He was so poor and weak that he could do nothing. Luther noted that Lazarus has been an inspiration to multitudes ever since  - something we can see in our own lives.

There are many like Lazarus around us. I see one on Facebook. He is a friend of my friends, who became friends because I know the father, who is a pastor. This modern Lazarus is a boy in a wheelchair. He has obvious physical problems and that will probably shorten his life. But in every photo he is beaming with happiness and love, and so is this married couple with him.

Many people are impoverished physically, so they invite help in various ways, often simply in providing company. This is a great experience to learn from such individuals. Those who help often say, “I gain a lot more than I ever give.”

The rich man wanted the relief in eternal life that he never gave Lazarus in that man’s short life:

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

Jesus often pointed out those who took comfort in their riches and power, little realizing how such were not the treasures of life. Today the false teachers gather around the rich to get great riches for the church by selling them forgiveness for their sins. The rich love the adoration and foolishly think that the absolution of unbelieving clergy will do them some good beyond the grave.

The fawning clergy pretend they are doing good, but they use this gain for themselves and to build fancy buildings so everyone can admire their good deeds. The SynCons went through this with the Schwan Foundation money on top of Thrivent grants, and still they are just as poor financially as they are spiritually.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

This is one of the classic passages about the efficacy of the Word. The rich man now wants Lazarus sent as an evangelist to teach his brothers the true meaning of life, to warn them and teach them about faith. Abraham, the Biblical symbol of justification by faith (Romans 4, Galatians, Genesis 15) says, “They have Moses and the prophets.”

The Christian Church does not teach that spirits come to earth to teach and protect. That is a Roman dogma designed to deceive the faithful. Besides, angels protect us and the Word teaches us.

The rich man’s plea is that something spectacular will convert his brothers, an interesting foreshadowing of the resurrection. But Abraham teaches, “If they do not pay attention to Moses and the prophets, they will not pay attention to someone rising from the dead.”

So it is today. This parable teaches us to regard harsh, cruel, and deceitful church leaders as unbelievers, because they lack the primary fruit of faith, which is love.  A man who is so vindictive that he will ruin a man’s family to get even – that leader has no faith and cannot love anyone except himself.

When people become angry at the thought of faith in Christ, when they are furious about the Scriptures being quoted – those people have demon-faith, as described by James. “They believe, but their hides bristle.”

SERMON NOTES
The First Sunday after Trinity
             
"But Christ was given for this purpose, namely, that for His sake there might be bestowed on us the remission of sins, and the Holy Ghost to bring forth in us new and eternal life, and eternal righteousness [to manifest Christ in our hearts, as it is written John 16:15: He shall take of the things of Mine, and show them unto you. Likewise, He works also other gifts, love, thanksgiving, charity, patience, etc.]. Wherefore the Law cannot be truly kept unless the Holy Ghost is received through faith...Then we learn to know how flesh, in security and indifference, does not fear God, and is not fully certain that we are regarded by God, but imagines that men are born and die by chance. Then we experience that we do not believe that God forgives and hears us. But when, on hearing the Gospel and the remission of sins, we are consoled by faith, we receive the Holy Ghost, so that now we are able to think aright.
            Augsburg Confession, Article III, #11, Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 159.

"Therefore, do not speak to me of love or friendship when anything is to be detracted from the Word or the faith; for we are told that not love but the Word brings eternal life, God's grace, and all heavenly treasures."
            What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., ed., Ewald Plass, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959, III, p. 1411f. Ephesians 6:10‑17. 

"In matters concerning faith we must be invincible, unbending, and very stubborn; indeed, if possible, harder than adamant. But in matters concerning love we should be softer and more pliant than any reed and leaf and should gladly accommodate ourselves to everything."
            What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959, I, p. 412f. Galatians 2:8.

"Doctrine is our only light. It alone enlightens and directs us and shows us the way to heaven. If it is shaken in one quarter (in une parte), it will necessarily be shaken in its entirety (in totum). Where that happens, love cannot help us at all."
            What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., Concordia Publishing House, 1959, I, p. 414. Galatians 5:10.

"The Christian doctrine of Purgatory was not finally worked out until the sixteenth century by the Council of Trent. Rejected by Protestants, it was an exclusively Catholic doctrine. After Trent, Bellarmine and Suarez, who were responsible for Purgatory, put forth several Biblical references in support of the newly approved doctrine." [references: 2 Macc. 12:41-46; Mt. 12:31-32; Lk. 16:19-26; 1 Cor. 3:11-15; the Corinthians passage played a crucial role in the development of Purgatory, p. 43]
Jacques Le Goff, The Birth of Purgatory, trans. Arthur Goldhammar, Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1984, p. 41f. 

"All believers are like poor Lazarus; and every believer is a true Lazarus , for he is of the same faith, mind and will, as Lazarus. And whoever will not be a Lazarus, will surely have his portion with the rich glutton in the flames of hell. For we all must like Lazarus trust in God, surrender ourselves to Him to work in us according to His own good pleasure, and be ready to serve all men."
 Sermons of Martin Luther, IV, p. 24.   

http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2013/04/norma-boecklers-new-book-treasury-of.html



We Still Believe - Original Text - Miraculously Preserved by a WELS Blog



From The Shepherd's Voice by Michael Shotey

In an age of anxiety, we still believe that peace comes from Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

In an age of confusion, we still believe that the Bible is the Word of God, inerrant and infallible.

In an age of doubt, we still believe that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.

In an age of guilt, we still believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross to remove the power of sin, death, and Satan from our lives.

In an age of fear, we still believe that Christ rose bodily from the dead to win for us eternal life.

In an age of self-centeredness, we still believe that God acts through the Sacraments of Baptism and Holy Communion.

In an age of constant change, we still believe in the unchanging Holy Trinity: the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

"If you hold to my teaching, then you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
John 8:31-32

---

Schottey's comments -

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 2007

Mission Statement (only not so CG)

This is a sample from a brochure of a church pamphlet. It was originally composed at Mequon during a evangelism conference. It comes from Rev. Gregory Jackson of Bethany Lutheran Church an independent Lutheran congregation. I have not always agreed with everything he has said, but this is the most confessional statement I have found to be used in such a way.'

His Website is http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/

I would caution you of going there if you believe "The Holy Christian Church" refers only to the WELS. The Rev. Jackson searches for the truth at all costs, his tone is polemical but I've found his material refreshing and enlightening. (If not always agreeable)

***

GJ - Michael sent in a number of good comments at the time, and he always signed his name. I mentioned him lately when he wrote the best post on the Notre Dame player's invisible girlfriend. He is well known and appreciated as a sports writer.

The statement above was aimed at mainline members disgusted with doctrinal apostasy.

If you want to see how I do a lot of my research work, copy one sentence from We Still Believe and paste it in Google's web search. The bolded words will show up in those websites that have copied all or most of the statement. I have found it in WELS, CLC (sic), independent Lutheran, and Episcopalian congregations.

The original post in Christian News was titled - Steal This Brochure - and many did. They are welcome to it. I give away everything I do with the thought that some will pay to have it printed.


Legalistic for a Time, Then Anything Goes - ELCA and WELS the Same

ELCA Bishop Guy Erwin and partner Rob Flynn.



The ELCA ordination of Guy Erwin has taken an immediate lead in page-views for the day (#1) and week (#3), so I am simply adding verbatim information to that post. I have found that four or five news stories provide more perspective than one or two.

Watch WELS get all holier-than-thou about this, without mentioning their district president and vicar who went to state prison for misconduct with minor girls, their pastor and teacher who murdered their wives, their Director of Communications who got WELS headquarters raided by the FBI. Likewise, Missouri will get all macho and forget their convicted sex criminal who was put into their insta-pastor program and given a call where he could molest another church member. With age comes forgetfulness, but these lessons will be remembered with advantages...

Someone on the ALPB Forum made this point about Guy Erwin - all the long-standing rules were broken to ordain him in a hurry (MDiv, CPE requirement, etc) - but he was approved by the ELCA bishops unanimously. However, the same ELCA bishops condemn/eject a pastor or congregation or both for violating a newly invented rule, being affiliated with the LCMC or NALC, the odious dual-rostered crime. One of these is covered in Romans 1 (and other Scriptures) - the other is not.

WELS and Missouri do the same thing. Their Pharisaical inventions are absolute law while the Scriptures are adiaphora.

In all these cases, the influence of Pietistic UOJ is expressed. UOJ teaches that everyone is forgiven and saved. When the true Gospel is missing, salvation by law is taught - in every pagan religion and every false form of Christianity.

The UOJ fanatics grasp justification by faith enough to hate it and teach against it at all times. If someone is properly and carefully taught UOJ, Law and Gospel are both obliterated - as the Unitarian-Universalists wish. ELCA is displaying that approach for everyone to admire and emulate. They are legalistic enough to take their own congregations to court to steal their property, but they are Antinomian about normal societal standards, such as marriage, family, and protection of the unborn.

The WELS district presidents - The Twelve Apostates - are degenerate, false teachers by their own admission. They even have an elegantly printed book called This We Believe where their blasphemies are recorded in detail. Do not confuse it with We Still Believe, which Engelbrecht has copied on his parish websty.

The Twelve Apostates overlook or approve every kind of evil, but when they spot justification by faith, their response is a lusty - "Burn it with fire! Anathema sit! Anathema sit! Anathema sit!"

Historians of dogma will note my ironic reference. When the Council of Trent responded to the Lutheran teaching of justification by faith, they stomped their bishops' crooks and shouted - Anathema sit! Anathema sit! Anathema sit! - Let him be damned to Hell!

Chemnitz recorded that moment with amusement and sadness in his Examination of the Council of Trent, which is boring and irrelevant for WELS leaders.


More Exhaust from Andy Stanley - Like Barth's Distinctions

Stanley inspires the Fox Valley WELS
and the activists. ELCA would be proud.

Andy Stanley’s Poison Pill for the Doctrine of Scripture

We do not hold to the Dalmatian theory of inspiration—that Scripture is inspired in spots


Stanley says that his belief in Adam and Eve is not “because the Bible says so,” but because Jesus says so. The first and most obvious problem with this formulation is the fact that our only knowledge of what Jesus says comes to us from the Bible. There can be no bifurcation between “what the Bible says” and “what Jesus says.” The former gives us the latter.

Andy Stanley’s comments on Adam and Eve have been making the rounds since they appeared on HereIBlog.com yesterday. In short, Stanley affirms the historicity of Adam and Eve, but not because Genesis says so. Rather, he bases his belief on what Jesus says about Adam and Eve. You can listen to the entire discussion above, but here are the relevant excerpts:
The foundation of our faith is not the Scripture. The foundation of our faith is not the infallibility of the Bible. The foundation of our faith is something that happened in history. And the issue is always – Who is Jesus? That’s always the issue. The Scripture is simply a collection of ancient documents that tells us that story…
Here’s why I believe this actually happened. Not because the Bible says so, but because of the Gospels – Jesus talks about Adam and Eve. And it appears to me that he believed they were actually historical figures. And if he believed they were historical, I believe they were historical because anybody that can predict their own death and resurrection and pull it off – I just believe anything they say. 
[GJ - Karl Barth distinguished between the Bible being the Word of God and the Bible containing the Word of God, emphasizing the second phrase. Like Barth, Stanley used his own opinion as the final authority.]
Let me say first of all that I am genuinely grateful that Stanley affirms the historicity of Adam and Eve. In this day and age, that position is under siege, and I don’t want to minimize the importance of Stanley’s affirmation in this regard.
Nevertheless, there’s a poison pill in his remarks for the doctrine of scripture. The view of scripture that Stanley evinces undermines what evangelicals hold to be the verbal plenary inspiration of scripture.
While it is true that Christ’s accomplishment in the cross and resurrection is the basis of our salvation, it is misleading to say that the “foundation of our faith is not the Scripture.” Our only access to what Christ accomplished for us in history is through Scripture! The message of salvation comes to us in the Bible, apart from which there is no salvation. This is why the apostle Paul can speak of the apostles’ message as the “foundation” of the church (Eph. 2:20). Without their testimony which has been inscripturated for us in the Bible, there is no salvation.
Stanley says that his belief in Adam and Eve is not “because the Bible says so,” but because Jesus says so. The first and most obvious problem with this formulation is the fact that our only knowledge of what Jesus says comes to us from the Bible. There can be no bifurcation between “what the Bible says” and “what Jesus says.” The former gives us the latter.
But it’s also important to see that Jesus’ allusions to Adam and Eve derive from his belief in the authority of the Old Testament. As he assumes the historicity of Adam and Eve, he is at once affirming the total truthfulness and trustworthiness of his Bible—the Old Testament. When asked about the lawfulness of divorce, Jesus responds with “Have you not read…?” (Matt. 19:4). Then he quotes from Moses’ accounts of Adam and Eve as the basis for his belief in the permanence of marriage (Gen. 1:27; 2:24). Elsewhere, Jesus says that anyone who annuls Moses’ testimony will be called “least in the Kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 5:19). In short, if you were to ask Jesus how he knows Adam and Eve existed, he would say “because the Bible says so.” In this way, Stanley’s view of scripture falls short of Jesus’ view of scripture.
Stanley’s view also falls short of the Bible’s own testimony about itself. We could point to a number of passages in this regard, but perhaps the most conspicuous is 2 Timothy 3:16-17:
All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
In this text, “scripture” refers specifically to the Old Testament, and Paul says that all of it has been breathed-out by God himself. We do not hold to the Dalmatian theory of inspiration—that scripture is inspired in spots. Rather, we hold to its plenary inspiration—which means that every word of the Old Testament is just as reliable and authoritative as any word in the New. And we dare not play one against the other. It is, after all, the Spirit of Christ himself who inspired the Old Testament word (1 Pet. 1:10-11).
There is much more that could be said on what an evangelical doctrine of scripture ought to look like. If you want to read further, then I recommend that you take a look at Timothy Ward’s book. You will find that what I have written here is nothing new. Nevertheless, it seems that too many people are forgetting the basics and that we must reiterate these things over and over again. In an “evangelical” context in which pastors even have trouble remembering, the need is all the greater.
Denny Burk is Associate Professor of New Testament and Dean of Boyce College, the undergraduate arm of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminar. He blogs on matters concerning politics, theology and culture. This article is used with his permission.