Cascione Gang Lies about Their Own History - Read Your Own Textbook - Zion on the Mississippi

The Great Walther is the prophet of UOJ,
but he learned it from his syphilitic bishop
and agreed with Bishop Stephan
that they they alone had the Means of Grace.

Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 320 Registered: 1-2002	Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 7:26 am:       I would second this, and I would also offer prayers for the people who are led astray from the truth as a result of this false doctrine. They have slipped too far to one side, which is a characteristic of heresy, i.e. a truth pressed too far in one direction. In turn, we who confess the biblical doctrine of objective justification must guard against Universalism, which is what the likes of Gregory Jackson accuse us of.
Pastor Cascione (Cardinal) Intermediate Member Username: Cardinal Post Number: 404 Registered: 11-2004	Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 12:37 pm:       I appreciate Rev. Boiclair’s comments. Rydecki, ELDONA, and “Gottesdienst’s” problem with Objective Justification is Sacerdotalism. Martin Stephan, is the theological mentor for these (Hauptgnadenmittel) [head grace mediator] wanna-bees, not Calvin. No one has forgiveness until the Bishop says they have it! Their shibboleth is they will not quote any verses that support the formation of the LCMS in 1847. The only publisher with the guts to speak out on the LCMS justification debacle is the most hated man in Lutheranism, the 80 year-old Herman Otten. [GJ - No, Luther is - as shown by this disgustingly ignorant chat forum.]
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4200 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 2:19 pm:       Their shibboleth is they will not quote any verses that support the formation of the LCMS in 1847. Hand them a copy of Die Stephan'sche Auswanderung nach Amerika and watch their hands start to burn.
Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 322 Registered: 1-2002	Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2013 - 4:04 pm:       I remember in the early years of this marvelous website, i.e. before 2001, that Gregory Jackson posted his own brand of this heresy, and all of us regardless of our differences on other issues unanimously opposed him. I want to commend Rev. Cascione for Reclaim News's clear refutation of this heresy in its latest posting. In the past I regret to say that I was largely influenced by Loehism, but it was this attack on the biblical doctrine of Objective Justification that opened my eyes to what Rev. Cascione has indicated above. All of us need to celebrate the EASTER ABSOLUTION that Walther proclaimed in his Gospel sermons. I would like to commend Rev. Cascione for three of his greatest accomplishments in the years of his ministry: 1) his advocacy of the return to the use of the ecumenical creeds in our worship (to counter what was known as "Creative Worship"), 2) his advocacy for the retaining of the name "Lutheran" by the churches of our Confession, and 3) his constant endeavor to maintain Walther's biblical Church polity: voter supremacy. Brother Cascione, thank you. You are a continuing blessing to your church.

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The Episcopalian Leaders Remind Me of the SynCon Leaders - They Hate the Conservatives and Kiss Up to Apostates

Are those three inter-connected fish supposed to be the Trinity?
ABC Welby.

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=18155#.UmkakXBtiSo

NAIROBI: FROM MY EAR TO YOURS

By David W. Virtue in Nairobi
www.virtueonline.org
October 21, 2013

The buzz here is that Archbishop Justin Welby is being regarded by many of the Primates as "Rowan reheated". Apparently, he turned up in Nairobi irritated and angry that he had to stop over to chat with these evangelical Anglicans while enroute to Iceland to meet with a group of Pro-gay Porvoo ecumenical churchmen. He clearly regards these GAFCON Anglicans as not being in step with his view that we can all get along because we all have different sins to wrestle with and we should not single out homosexuals for special opprobrium.

Of course, this belies the fact that it is the homosexual lobby that started this particular battle in the first place while his predecessor screwed the whole issue up so badly, he was forced to step down. While Welby says he opposes gay marriage, he sees a difference between that and civil partnerships and argues that the culture has gone for it; therefore the church needs to rethink its attitude towards homosexuality. We are not living in First Century times, he argues. But keeling over to the culture is precisely what the Early Church did not do. The church does not change or alter its doctrine to accommodate passing fashion.

One priest, who experienced the devastation the gay lobby did to his church, says the whole subject is just Gnosticism redressed in modern garb with a dash of compassion to make gays feel good about what they do.

Other challenges are that Welby just doesn't get the fact that this is spiritual warfare and that Global South leaders are not going to cave into him and his flawed position on sexuality.

ELCA's new gay bishop is on the right -
Guy Erwin was the professor of confessional Lutheranism before his enthronement.
Glasspool is in the middle.
Gene Robinson is on the left.
All three are famous for the same thing.

GENE ROBINSON VISITS LAMBETH PALACE

To make matters worse, in London on October 17, former New Hampshire gay Bishop Gene Robinson tweeted that he had breakfast with the new Archbishop of Canterbury at Lambeth Palace, and Morning Prayer in 13th Century chapel.

When VOL inquired of Lambeth Palace for further details, we were told that this was a "private meeting" and therefore the ABC had no comment.

What sort of a signal do you think that sends GAFCON primates like Nigerian archbishop Nicholas Okoh whose 18 million strong province is solidly biblical and solidly opposed to homosexuality? And please don't accuse him of homophobia. He and his fellow archbishops and bishops don't hatehomosexuals, they just don't approve of what they do in bed. It's all about hating the sin and loving the sinner.

It's this kind of thing that Welby does that sends these primates into apoplectic fits. On the one hand, Welby comes across as evangelistically driven. Then he cozies up to gays like Robinson to show how inclusive and full of diversity he is. It sends precisely the wrong message to the Communion. In the end, Welby will be the loser. He won't get the support of these GAFCON archbishops. He will permanently sour relations with them, forcing them once again to be no shows when he calls for a gathering of the Primates. He also hasn't signed the Jerusalem Declaration, another missed milestone as it calls for the recognition of the ACNA, something he is apparently not prepared to do despite photo ops here at the cathedral with Archbishop Robert Duncan.

Welby is continuing his shuttle diplomacy. He told us that he will have visited all 37 the provinces by next year. He has yet to visit TEC's Presiding Bishop, which will be a real doozy of an occasion and closely watched, especially as Archbishop Okoh also visits the US from time to time. Okoh won't go near Jefferts Schori, choosing instead to tend to his growing CANA flocks across the country, clearly not giving a damn about crossing borders or phoning KJS or dropping in for tea at 815 2nd Avenue. However, VOL has been told that he will be in Kansas next week. I wonder if he knows anything about trains. 

It was Welby, in his first sermon, who said that there was no moral equivalence between gay sex and crossing boundaries, but later modified his statement in a second sermon. 

According to the ABC, the structures that lead it are broken. In response to Welby's sermon, Anglican TV guru Kevin Kallsen commented, "Shame on those who are trying to fix the structures and are willing to put order ahead of faith."

One, the former, is clearly prohibited by scripture, the other, noted GAFCON chairman Archbishop Peter Jensen, has to do with the faith and order and faith trumps order any day.

As one scholarly former TEC priest now in ACNA said to me, "If I were given the opportunity to meet Welby, I would ask him if he recognized my priesthood as I had been deposed by Katharine Jefferts Schori and was now a priest in ACNA, a good solid Anglican and former seminary professor. I wonder if he would recognize my orders." We wonder indeed.

Bumped into Nara Duncan who told me her husband Bob Duncan, ACNA Archbishop, was in serious pain due to a tooth abscess. One side of his face was seriously swollen. Late last night we were told over dinner that he had received medical treatment here despite it being a national holiday. A news report that he had been medi-vaced back to the US was inaccurate.

There are now two very different DNA's in the Anglican Communion and they are irreconcilable. The future is yet to unfold. 

It is an interesting historical vignette that more than a dozen years ago, PB Frank Griswold flew to London to tell George Carey not to recognize the Anglican Mission in the Americas. In April of this year, just before Welby's installation as the next Archbishop of Canterbury, Fred Hiltz, Canadian Archbishop raced across the Atlantic and pled with Welby not to recognize the ACNA. Things don't change that much, it would seem.

The conservative wing of the Anglican Communion is still sizing Welby up, but this writer believes that the end will not be one he likes. It's hard not to like him, personally, but his views are a stumbling block to full unity. Taking a neutral stand on issues like sexuality is not in the theological DNA of the Africans who make up the bulk of this gathering which includes the messages, music...and it is nearly all African in content and style.

Stay tuned.

Virtue Online likes my Photoshop of
Presiding Bishop Jefferts-Schori.

Joel Lillo Presents a False Picture of UOJ - Typical of UOJ Enthusiasts. UOJ Advocates Deceive People about Their Dogma

Brett Meyer replied to WELS Fox Valley Pastor Joel Lillo on the Ecclesia Augustana blog -

http://ecclesiaaugustana.blogspot.com/2013/10/huberianism-in-brief.html#comment-form

Joel, you are not presenting the UOJ doctrine completely in your statement. Vague representations such as yours is one reason why many of the Lutheran Synod’s laity believe the false gospel of UOJ is the same as the central doctrine of Scripture, one Justification solely by faith in Christ alone.

Joel states, "and that justification becomes the sinner's own when God brings him to faith through the means of grace."

The doctrine of UOJ teaches that God has justified the unbelieving world, declared the unbelieving world sinless, guiltless, justified and righteous because God removed their sin and placed it on Christ to atone for.
UOJ teaches God's divine verdict of 'justified' is every unbelievers condition in His sight - even if they never have faith.

Scripture teaches that only those who by the grace of God believe in Christ alone are justified. Every unbeliever remains under God’s wrath and condemnation.

UOJ teaches that all people – both believers and unbelievers are at the same time under God’s wrath and condemnation over sin and also under God’s grace and are considered by Him to be forgiven all sin (justified), righteous in Christ and worthy of eternal life.

Scripture teaches that those who, by God’s gracious gift of faith, trust alone in Christ are justified and righteous – having been clothed in Christ’s righteousness by faith and are no longer under His wrath and condemnation. Scripture also teaches that the unbelieving world remain under his wrath and condemnation and will never be in His grace, justified or considered righteous in Christ while they reject the Holy Spirit’s faith in Christ alone.

UOJ's teaching is that faith does nothing but is simply an outstretched hand that receives the benefit of the justification already imputed upon the unbelieving world – that benefit is eternal salvation.

Scripture teaches that the faith of the Holy Spirit is Christ’s righteousness, worked graciously by the Holy Spirit solely through the Means of Grace, by which a person clings to Christ alone, is regenerated – dies to sin and is raised to live under God’s grace, becomes spiritually minded, is adopted as God’s child, receiving the inheritance that Christ has appropriated to all who believe in Him.

UOJ's teaching is that faith can only be created by a declaration that the unbeliever was forgiven all sins, declared righteous and worthy of eternal life when Christ paid for the worlds sins.

Scripture teaches that the Holy Spirit’s faith is created graciously through the Means of Grace working contrition over sin and faith in Christ alone in those He has called to believe.

UOJ teaches the object of faith is the declaration that the individual was forgiven all sin, declared righteous and worthy of eternal life before they ever believed – even if they never believe.

Scripture teaches the object of faith is Christ alone – and Him crucified.

UOJ’s teaching is that men are justified by grace alone. Period. UOJ’s teaching is that men are saved by faith in the prior forgiveness. Period.

Scripture teaches that mean are justified by faith alone so that it might be by grace alone. That men are justified by grace through faith.

UOJ teaches that the forgiveness of sins is not eternal salvation.

Scripture teaches that the forgiveness of sins is eternal salvation.

UOJ teaches that unbelief is not a sin that Christ died and paid for.

Scripture teaches that unbelief is a sin that Christ paid for and that those who God calls to believe through the Means of Grace are forgiven the sin of unbelief which they, along with the whole world, were born guilty of.

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GJ - 

Compare Luther to a quotation cited favorably by Paul McCain and Jack Cascione:

When will David Scaer apologize for this rant and retract it? Never - because this is the substance of UOJ.

Links to the individual ELDONA Justification by Faith Posts.

Worth a Featured Post - Michigan Lutheran - On SpenerQuest Blasphemy

Or - consider this verse.
The wrath of God does not abide on a justified person,
who is declared forgiven.

Of all the words about words in the above thread, there is one set that is remarkable.

From Franz Linden:  "They like to say that they do not teach that their faith is in their faith, but Rydecki betrayed his denial when asked what a person is to believe. He said, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved." If that is what a person is to believe to be justified, it is exactly the same thing as saying faith must believe in itself." 

How is it that a supposed Lutheran repeats the Lord's words and then denies they are to be believed?   To say belief in the Gospel is faith in faith is incomprehensible if it isn't blasphemy. 

New Logical Fallacy at SpenerQuest - Ad Jacksonem - Not As Clever as Cascione's Straw Dogs Fallacy

Cascione: Rydecki sets up a number of straw dogs (sic - straw men?) in his paper.  Yes, Huber was condemned in the 16the Century because he was a Universalist,
not because he taught Objective Justification.

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From a senior Michigan Lutheran:

Of all the words about words in the above thread, there is one set that is remarkable.

From Franz Linden:  "They like to say that they do not teach that their faith is in their faith, but Rydecki betrayed his denial when asked what a person is to believe. He said, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved." If that is what a person is to believe to be justified, it is exactly the same thing as saying faith must believe in itself." 

How is it that a supposed Lutheran repeats the Lord's words and then denies they are to be believed?   To say belief in the Gospel is faith in faith is incomprehensible if it isn't blasphemy. 

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Tim Rake (Qaliph) Senior Member Username: Qaliph Post Number: 2558 Registered: 12-2004	Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 3:47 pm:       Rydecki may indeed reject OJ, but seeing how Reclaim News doesn't reject yellow journalism, I simply can't trust the source...
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4194 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2013 - 5:10 pm:       "Rydecki may indeed reject OJ, but seeing how Reclaim News doesn't reject yellow journalism, I simply can't trust the source..."  First, the Reclaim News article provides a link directly to Rydecki's paper on his own website, from which one can easily locate the quotes (and their context) discussed in the Reclaim News article. Second, the Reclaim News article provides the Scripture references used in its discussion of Rydecki's quotes. Third, the Reclaim News article provides references at the bottom for the statements from the Book of Concord or from Luther's writings. Fourth, the unsubstantiated accusation that Reclaim News doesn't reject yellow journalism, even it were true, does not demonstrate that the arguments presented against Rydecki's paper are false or untrustworthy.
Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 315 Registered: 1-2002	Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 11:28 am:       As I am sure you are all aware the scope of this heresy takes in the curious cult of Gregory Jackson, who cottons to vicious lampooning and libeling the Wisconsin Synod. I wonder if Heiser and Rydecki have for a long time been collaborators in that Heiser is impressed with Rydecki's expertise in the classical languages. I have studied the Rydecki translation of Aegidius Hunnius's Theses against Huberianism, and debated with him on his Intrepid Lutherans site, which is totally Rydecki's bailiwick. I am encouraged by the ACLC's staunch defense of the truth, and I am deeply grieved that ELDoNA has finally come out as heterodox in the worst way.
Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 316 Registered: 1-2002	Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 11:35 am:       Here is my debate with Rydecki of last February right around Ash Wednesday. As a result of this I have been barred from posting on that site, which I guess I am not entitled to do since I am not a WELS but an LCMS pastor. http://www.intrepidlutherans.com/2013/02/luthers-t ranslation-of-2-corinthians-519.html I imagine that they will remove it if it is made over too much, but "c'est la guerre." It is too bad that Robert Preus is not alive to do battle with these Calvinists.
Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 317 Registered: 1-2002	Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 12:01 pm:       Correction: de facto Calvinists. It is curious that they like the verdict of Justification not to be pronounced by God at the Resurrection of our Lord but in the "confessional" by the confessor. This is their enhanced view of confession and holy absolution, which gives the clergy greater spiritual authority.
Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 318 Registered: 1-2002	Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 6:28 pm:       I have read through all of the postings on this thread, and I believe that George Mueller already assessed this serious problem well with his initial post. The Rev. Stephanski post was helpful to show us the tragedy as it unfolded. What this boils down to is WHAT DO THE SCRIPTURES SAY? The Confessions do not analyze the doctrine of justification from this specific angle, but Jackson, Rydecki, and their disciples interpret sola fide to be an "exclusive particle" that not only excludes our works from justification but also any consideration of justification apart from faith, even when it is all God's doing. Romans 4:25, Romans 5, 2 Cor. 5:18-21 clearly teach the doctrine of objective justification. The problem with the Rydeckian doctrine is that in locating justification only in our receiving faith locates it in a place other than outside ourselves (extra nos), which is the main aspect of the righteousness/justification of Christ. It is Christ who IS our justification (1 Cor. 1:30) because it says He is our "dikaiosune." While this is usually translated "He is our ... righteousness" in line with Jer. 23:6. You should not (sic) that Jackson accuses us of Enthusiasm because we speak of a justification that comes BEFORE the means of grace; however, if it is God doing such forgiving/justifying (2 Cor. 5:18-20), then it has not gone that far where it is APPLIED AND RECEIVED by saving faith created by the Holy Spirit through the means of grace.

Franz Linden (Franz_mann) Senior Member Username: Franz_mann Post Number: 1767 Registered: 12-2004

Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 6:53 pm:       A significant part of the problem of the deniers of universal objective justification, as the thread Rev. Bosclair links in his post above testifies, is that they do not know what to do with justified unbelievers. It's the same problem the Reformed have. It's not so much a question of how God can justify the ungodly, but more a question of how can God condemn those whom He has justified? The answer Holy Scripture gives to that question is too simplistic in their estimation. They, therefore, must jump through all kinds of hoops and do theological backflips in an attempt to make God's Word say something other than what it says. The irony of it all is that they end up making God much smaller than He truly is. In their mind, God simply cannot condemn forgiven sinners, so they fashion God into an impotent Savior who can only justify those who believe. They like to say that they do not teach that their faith is in their faith, but Rydecki betrayed his denial when asked what a person is to believe. He said, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved." If that is what a person is to believe to be justified, it is exactly the same thing as saying faith must believe in itself. The faith of Mark 16:16 isn't in itself, though. It's in the God-man Savior who takes away the sin of the world. Rydecki's heresy isn't anything new; it's just an old hat packaged in a new box to give it the appearance of not being Reformed doctrine. Yet, for all his arguments about justification, redemption, forgiveness not being synonyms, he is nothing more than a Calvinist trying to dress in Luther's garb. Franz

Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 319 Registered: 1-2002

Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2013 - 9:16 pm:       Thank you, Franz, for your insight into this! There is also Reformed exegesis afoot when they exegete Romans 4:25. "Who was delivered for our offenses, and raised again for our justification." Who is meant by the genitive pronoun first person plural? They claim on the basis of context that the "our" refers to believers not to all of humanity. That understanding pushed to its logical conclusion leads to LIMITED ATONEMENT: Christ only died for believers (the elect) not unbelievers. If you look at the thread from Intrepid Lutherans, Rydecki is raising the possibility that Luther thought of God's action of reconciling the world as present not past. The Greek clearly shows the imperfect form of eimi/esthai ("to be"). In one edition of Luther's German Bible you have the present tense of "reconcile" rather than the past tense. This involves the absence of an "h" and an "e" in the editions that read this as present tense: versönet (present) as opposed to versöhnete. Rydecki wants Luther to have this verse say that God reconciles the world in Christ rather than God reconciled the world in Christ. He is grabbing at straws to set Luther and the orthodox Lutheran theologians against the biblical doctrine of objective justification. He does historical gymnastics in his paper about the "Throne of Grace" by giving the dates of the "Age of Orthodoxy" from 1515-1637 taking in Luther--even BEFORE HIS REFORMATORY DISCOVERY IN 1518! He ends with the death of Gerhard. This is clearly contrived: history according to Paul Rydecki. The Age of Orthodoxy, historically considered, is 1580-1713 (terminus a quo: the date of the publishing of the BOC; terminus ad quem: the death of David Hollaz). Rydecki has to be a revisionist of history. What is so tragic is that one gets the impression that Rydecki goes "cap in hand" to the ELDoNA "synod and colloquium" to present a paper, and it turns out to be ELDoNA's paper, their official paper. One would think that Heiser and ELDoNA would accept Rydecki's paper as HIS confession. This argues for Heiser and ELDoNA commissioning Rydecki to write a paper FOR THEM. Rydecki is the wunderkind, who translates the "fathers." They may say that they are faithful to the Scriptures, but what is patently clear: they only read the Scriptures through the lenses of THEIR conception of the doctrine of the orthodox Lutheran "fathers."

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GJ - Jack Kilcrease, another illiterate UOJ Enthusiast, taught me a new verb - to goat. Apparently I have goated SpenerQuest into attacking me by name. Their incoherent fury is matched only by their spelling and argumentation skills.

But not (LQ for note) this difference - I quote the opponents verbatim, because their theology is even worse than their writing. My best material has always come from the false teachers. WELS used to howl in fury that I quoted and cited their Church Growth heroes, from Paul Kelm to David Valleskey to Floyd Stolzenburg.

Tim Glende and the Fox Valley wolfpack did their best (which is not very good) to slander me into silence. They neglected one little fact - nothing energizes me more than a personal attack, since it proves they have nothing cogent to offer.

I hate to disappoint such a large audience - about 5,000 page-views a day lately - but I do not have a cult. Brett Meyer joined our congregation because he already saw through UOJ. I was the only one writing against it on the Net at that time. Various people participate in our tiny congregation, simply because we appreciate traditional worship with The Lutheran Hymnal.

We follow the historical readings, sing Lutheran and classical hymns, and study the Scriptures and Book of Concord. We have read through Luther's commentaries on Galatians (commended by the Book of Concord) and Romans.

I am constantly amused that people are afraid of a little blog that "no one reads." Perhaps I have missed someone actually quoting me in their rants and answering in sane, sober language, with a proper citation. Instead, there is a big effort to keep anyone from even mentioning this blog.

Nevertheless, Ichabod owns many categories on Google, as people tell me - after searching Lutheran graphics and topics. Someone must be clicking on the links.

Links to the individual ELDONA Justification by Faith Posts.