Bailing Water Blog Incites Ad Jacksonem Fallacy

Who told you? Jackson?

Bailing Water calmly discusses Wisconsin sect news and issues. The responses are hilarious. Here are a few:

Anonymous said...
Seems to be more of the same (an Ichabod want-a-be)--Lutherans who seem to never be satisfied and in my opinion jettison the 8th commandment in this blog-sphere in the name of orthodoxy. Should spend more time sharing the gospel than bitch'in about people who don't the way you like.

Just shout'in

[GJ - The post above was incoherent enough to attract another illiterate - below.]

April 20, 2008 9:31 PM


Anonymous said...
Just Shout'in,

"Icabod [sic] want-a-be"? You've got to be kidding, really. Jackson slanders at will (please don't make me re-read his rants to illustrate this). These "Angry Lutherans" comment on public matters. Please illustrate where this group has jettisoned the 8th commandment as you opine. Even if a feather or two is ruffled, as a Wisconsin Synod letter writer to Logia once said, we should be more concerned about God's name than our own. This was in response to someone ripping on him (not Him). And how do you know that they spend more thim "bitch'in" (sic) than "sharing (sic) the gospel"?

R. Flanders

Anonymous said...
R. Flanders writes,

And how do you know that they spend more thim "bitch'in" (sic) than "sharing (sic) the gospel"?

or "time?"

R. Flanders

April 28, 2008 3:07 PM

Anonymous said...
So where did you get your information from? You're acting like Jackson at Ichabod. You just make the statement (or charges), without any proof. Who sponsored the event? When was it held? Who was invited? You've got to tell us more than this. Remember the Eighth Commandment?

April 28, 2008 7:22 AM

John said...
I received the information from a WELS pastor and "staff" minister who were in attendance last week in Orlando, FL at this church planting seminar.

April 28, 2008 11:45 AM

Anonymous said...
And then you have Greg Jackson over at Icabod [sic] who it seems is going Eastern Orthodox. Check out the icon he used on his most recent post. (That is enough proof according to his standards that he is sailing the Bosporus.)

Rick Warren Is All Wet,And WELS Slobbers All Over Him

Fuller-trained Rick Warren walks on water, according to WELS.

From Bailing Water:

Wednesday, April 30, 2008

The WELS Challenge

WELS pastors take up the challenge of growing the church. Several heavy hitting WELS pastors took to the road to find out the latest trends going on under the protestant tent. At least one of the pastors in attendance sits on the presidium of a synodical district.

I hope that in a future issue of Forward in Christ (one of those in attendance is a contributing author to FIC) or maybe in the presidential newsletter we will hear a recap of this event and how we can follow in the footsteps of such great leaders as Rick Warren.

http://www.exponentialconference.org/

Session #5b: with Rick Warren: The Challenge - You've heard the scriptures and been through the workshops. You've learned about the biblical principles of reproducing churches, vision, disciple making, community, missional movements. You've networked with people who share your passion for reaching people and showing them the way back to Jesus Christ. Now what? Rick Warren will help answer that question as he closes Exponential 2008 with a time of challenge and commitment.

WELS Pastors attend Exponential Conference in Orlando

Several WELS pastors from across the country gathered together last week at an ecumenical conference (but they didn't pray with 'em).

http://www.exponentialconference.org/
These WELS pastors sat at the feet of nationally known Church Growth gurus including Rick Warren and Ed Stetzer.

People like to shout out that we won't let Leonard Sweet preach to us at WLC. Since the growth leaders can't come to WELS colleges the cutting edge pastors visit these national seminars.

If you want further details about the wonderful ideas presented at this conference contact a pastor at the local WELS congregation in Maitland, FL, our your own local church planting WELS pastor.

Episcopal Bishop Sues Congregation

COLORADO SPRINGS: Church Property Dispute Unresolved. Trial Ordered
Church Will Continue to Stay in Hands of CANA Priest

News Analysis

By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
May 14, 2008

A judge of the El Paso County District Court of Colorado ruled that a property dispute between Grace Church & St. Stephen's and the Episcopal Bishop and Diocese of Colorado cannot be resolved by summary judgment and must go to trial court.

Judge Larry E. Schwartz ruled, however, that Grace Church and St. Stephen's legal argument for ownership of the property is valid as they have been a valid, non-profit corporation recognized by the State of Colorado since 1973.

When asked if the majority of the congregation that stayed with Grace Church could remain on the property, the Rev. Don Armstrong told VOL that it means precisely that. "We do stay in the building. A trial date is currently set for Feb 24, 2009. In the mean time, our congregation continues to flourish. God is adding to our numbers day by day. More people are worshipping each Sunday at Grace Church than all the other Episcopal Churches in Colorado Springs combined. Our new programs have been met with great enthusiasm and our congregation's spiritual health is the best I have ever seen it."

Armstrong said he was very pleased that Judge Schwartz is hearing this case. "He has a reputation for thoroughness and precision, which these circumstances require. We trust that whatever the outcome, it will have been well adjudicated. Defrockings, personal law suits, character assassinations, and false claims being used by Mrs. Katharine Jefferts Schori and her bishops is not only un-Christian, but un-American.

"Unlike the ecclesial court in Colorado that thought it could adjudicate civil matters in a religious court, Judge Schwartz is not going to try to adjudicate religious matters in a civil court. The decision here will be based on Neutral Principles of Law, and that part of this ruling we consider to be very wise and hopeful.

"Although our opponents have a complicated house of cards for an argument, our case is relatively straight forward and clear because it is the truth. We look forward to the final outcome, although that itself is over a year away."

Judge Schwartz's decision was in response to a hearing held on May 2, 2008, at the El Paso County Courthouse in which 18 members of Grace Church and St. Stephen's requested that personal lawsuits brought against them by the Episcopal Bishop of Colorado be dismissed.

In May of 2007, Grace Church and St. Stephen's voted to affiliate with the Convocation of Anglicans in North America (CANA) in a congregational election. Of the 370 votes cast, an overwhelming 342, or 93%, voted for Grace Church and St. Stephen's, one of the oldest Episcopal Churches in Colorado, to leave the Episcopal Church over its departure from traditional Christian beliefs and practice.

Since that time, the Episcopal Bishop, Rob O'Neill, and the Diocese of Colorado have sued the corporation of Grace Church and St. Stephen's, 18 individual members and lay-leaders of the congregation, and an affiliated elementary school, St. Stephen's Classical School, for the 17 million dollar historic landmark church building in downtown Colorado Springs.

UOP To Start Canadian University

The University of Phoenix has started a Canadian university.

The Ontario branch will issue diplomas that read, "You have earned a bachelor's degree, eh?"

PS - For those who do not know - Ontario natives end most of their sentences with a long "a-a-a-a-ay?" For reasons yet to be explained, it is spelled "eh."

Minneapolis Bridge Almost Completed

The People's Republic of Minnesota has almost completed
the new I-35 bridge in Minneapolis.

Bridge construction superintendent Norm Teigen said recently, "One more coat of paint on the house and we'll be finished."

Norm liked this update!

Famous Lutheran Church Musician Dies at 89

+ Lutheran Kantor on Jaraslov Vajda - 1919-2008 +

The Concordia Publishing House website reports that Dr. Jaraslov Vajda died on May 10, 2008. I first encountered his hymns with the now familiar “Go, My Children, With My Blessing”.

Some of us recently sang or read his Ascension hymn “Up Through Endless Ranks of Angels” (LSB 491) . The doxological verse to this hymn is a fitting closing to a long and productive service to God and the church.

Alleluia, alleluia! Oh to breathe the Spirit’s grace!
Alleluia, alleluia! Oh, to see the Father’s face!
Alleluia, alleluia! Oh, to feel the Sons’ embrace

Candadian Lutherans Lead the Way To Perdition

Lionel Ketola

By Hilary White

NEWMARKET, Ontario, May 7, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The Christian doctrine pertaining to sexual morality held by the Evangelical Lutheran Church In Canada (ELCIC) is “discriminatory” and “unjust”, according to Holy Cross Lutheran church in Newmarket, Ontario. The small church congregation is issuing a direct challenge to the ELCIC and is breaking with the doctrines of the Christian religion by announcing it will ordain to the ministry an active homosexual who is “married” to another man.

Lionel Ketola, will be ordained to the Lutheran ministry on May 16th. Their ceremony, Holy Cross admits, is an act in defiance of the policy of the ELCIC that says those who are “self-declared and practicing homosexuals” may not serve as ordained ministers.

The willingness of Holy Cross to ordain Ketola can be seen as a direct challenge to the ELCIC, which refused to accept him as a candidate in 1988 because of his refusal to give up his sexually active lifestyle. In a grant application to cover the cost of Ketola’s internship, the Holy Cross council wrote that they saw their efforts as a corrective “witness to the ELCIC as well as to the communities in which we serve”.

The church has affiliated itself with a group, Lutherans Concerned In Canada, that is pursuing the goals of the homosexual movement’s agenda within the Lutheran Church.

The ELCIC responded in a letter, saying that the action of Holy Cross “marks a serious breach” of the church’s obligations to abide by the ELCIC constitution.

Bishop Michael J. Prysewrote to the Holy Cross Council “with a heavy heart,” but made no direct objection on moral grounds to the church’s determination to endorse homosexuality. He wrote, “With you, I am committed to work toward ending practices that preclude the full participation of all God’s people in the life of the church, regardless of sexual orientation”.

Prysesaid, however, that the process should go more slowly and with greater consultation, objecting only that the action may “do irreparable damage to the already fragile connecting fabric of our church”.

In 2006 Holy Cross announced that the “openly queer-identified” Ketola would be allowed to serve a year long internship as vicar. The church secured financial assistance to fund the internship from a group called Extraordinary Lutheran Ministries (ELM) that promotes the ordination to the Lutheran ministry of persons “of all sexual
orientations and gender identities in Lutheran life and ministry”.

Ketolais supported by the Extraordinary Candidacy Project (ECP), a homosexual activist organization which certifies the credentials of openly lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender candidates for ordained ministry in Lutheran Churches. Holy Cross calls the ECP “a hopeful alternative for openly queer people who wish to serve in public ministry and refuse to comply with the ELCIC’s unjust policy” that requires that pastors conform to traditional Christian sexual morality.

Holy Cross proudly announced that “Lionel and his husband Steve Loweth, a 42-year-old music publisher, were married on New Years Eve 2003. Steve is active in leadership in a downtown Toronto congregation of the Anglican Church of Canada.”

The willingness of Holy Cross to embrace the homosexual doctrine will not surprise some who have watched as the ELCIC has “progressed” into greater liberalism.

In a letter dated May 1st, Astrid Neumann, a member of Mount Olive Lutheran Church in Surrey, British Columbia, wrote that she was leaving the congregation and that the church’s slide away from the traditional doctrines of Christianity was “the most horrific experience of my life, bar none”.

Neumann wrote of the Lutheran church’s questioning of core Christian beliefs. “I can’t fathom that there are debates about whether or not Mary was a virgin when she conceived Jesus, if Jesus is or isn’t the only way to the Father, that hell may or may not exist, that everyone will go to heaven regardless of their beliefs or unbelief, etc., and many other debates about what I mistakenly thought were core beliefs”.

“Everything has become iffy. We are left with the end result that the Bible can’t be trusted, there is no Truth, and everything is relative.”

***

More than you want to know about this development.