Wednesday, October 22, 2008

Follow the Money



Funding Church and Change? I don't see that happening. You have violated the 8th Commandment just by thinking that.


WELS District VP Patterson gets WELS grants to pay for his vicars, then trains them in Church and Change doctrine. They come back to Texas to take root, and to root for Sweet and Stetzer and Hunter and that troglodyte Werning.


Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Your Offering Money at Work - Supporting WELS Chur...":

I am demanding an audit of how Patterson spent the money he's received in the past. Is it being put to good use? I think not! I'd hesitate to give another dime to missions knowing it's going to fund field trips for what should be a responsible pastor to take young, impressionable minds to be twisted by Baptist theology. Are there no Lutherans that can offer their mission stories?

Can They Cancel the Church and Change Kelm Call?



Felines model the copy and paste ministry of Paul Kelm. The Church and Change gurus truly are copy cats. They run to Fuller and copy Fuller. They run to Willow Creek and copy WC. They run to the Baptists and copy them. Their best students turn Baptist and Pentecostal. Why? They are just copying their leaders.


Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Bruce Becker Has Declared War on SP Schroeder: Who...":

How is it possible for Becker to issue a divine call without SP knowledge or approval? Why must the rest of us pay for an extra guy when they gotten along without one for a couple years and money is tight as it is? Is there anything that can be done to cut Kelm's position before he gets there? And I'm still waiting for the answer to this $64,000 question ~ WHAT'S THERE TO CONSULT THE CONGREGATIONS ABOUT IN THE FIRST PLACE?!? Talk about your monumental waste of synod money....hmmmm.

***

GJ - A lot of people could make it impossible for this catastrophe to happen. Do not wait for the Little Sect on the Prairie to notice, or the District Popes to take action.

Blessed Baptismal Rite


"This Child We Dedicate To Thee"
by unknown author
Translated by Samuel Gilman, 1791-1858

1. This child we dedicate to Thee,
O God of grace and purity;
Shield it from sin and threatening wrong,
And let Thy love its life prolong.

2. Oh, may Thy Spirit gently draw
Its willing soul to keep Thy Law!
May virtue, piety, and truth
Dawn even with its dawning youth!

3. We, too, before Thy gracious sight
Once shared the blest baptismal rite
And would renew its solemn vow
With love and thanks and praises now.

4. Grant that with true and faithful heart
We still may act the Christian's part,
Cheered by each promise Thou hast given
And laboring for the prize in heaven.

Hymn #303
The Lutheran Hymnal
Text: Luke 18:17
Author: unknown
Translated by: Samuel Gilman, 1823
Composer: Lowell Mason, 1830
Tune: "Uxbridge"

Baptismal Regeneration


"He that Believes and is Baptized"
by Thomas Kingo, 1634-1703
Translated by George A.T. Rygh, 1860-1942

1. He that believes and is baptized
Shall see the Lord's salvation;
Baptized into the death of Christ,
He is a new creation.
Through Christ's redemption he shall stand
Among the glorious heavenly band
Of every tribe and nation.

2. With one accord, O God, we pray:
Grant us Thy Holy Spirit;
Look Thou on our infirmity
Through Jesus' blood and merit.
Grant us to grow in grace each day
That by this Sacrament we may
Eternal life inherit.

Hymn #301
The Lutheran Hymnal
Text: Mark 16: 16
Author: Thomas Kingo, 1689
Translated by: George A.T. Rygh, 1909
Titled: "Enhver som tror og bliver doebt"
Tune: "Es ist das Heil"
Melody: German, c. 1400

Infant Baptism


"Dearest Jesus, We Are Here"
by Benjamin Schmolck, 1672-1737
Translated by Catherine Winkworth, 1829-1878

1. Dearest Jesus, we are here,
Gladly Thy command obeying;
With this child we now draw near
In accord with Thine own saying
That to Thee it shall be given
As a child and heir of heaven.

2. Yea, Thy word is clear and plain,
And we would obey it duly:
"He who is not born again,
Heart and life renewing truly,
Born of water and the Spirit,
Can My kingdom not inherit."

3. Therefore hasten we to Thee,
In our arms this infant bearing;
Let us here Thy glory see
Let this child, Thy mercy sharing,
In Thine arms be shielded ever,
Thine on earth and Thine forever.

4. Gracious Head, Thy member own;
Shepherd, take Thy lamb and feed it;
Prince of Peace, make here Thy throne;
Way of Life, to heaven lead it;
Precious Vine, let nothing sever
From Thy side this branch forever.

5. Now into Thy heart we pour
Prayers that from our hearts proceeded.
Our petitions heavenward soar;
May our warm desires be heeded!
Write the name we now have given,
Write it in the book of heaven.

Hymn #300
The Lutheran Hymnal
Text: Mark 10:13-16
Author: Benjamin Schmolck, 1704, cento
Translated by: Catherine Winkworth, 1863, alt.
Titled: "Liebster Jesu, wir sind hier"
Composer: Johann R. Ahle, 1664
Tune: "Liebster Jesu"

What I Learned at Drive 08 - by Ski



"This is a way cool way to look at baptism. Deutschlander never taught us this!"


Pastor Ski and other WELS pastors (John Parlow, Jim Buske, and others) went to Drive08, a conference organized by a Baptist Church in Atlanta, deceptively called Northpoint Community Church.


WELS observer: "Have you noticed that, at the top of Ski's blog he calls it [Drive 08] a 'pastors conference'?"


This is what Northpoint Community Church believes about baptism:

What We Believe About Baptism

Who Should Be Baptized
Christians believe that the blood of Jesus Christ, shed on the cross, provides the sole basis for the forgiveness of sin. Therefore, salvation occurs only when a person places his or her faith in the death and resurrection of Christ as the sufficient payment for his or her sin.

If you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, then you are ready to be baptized. Just like a bride and groom show others their love for one another by wearing wedding bands, your baptism is your opportunity to show others that you have accepted Christ and are now walking with Him.

If you have any questions about how to begin a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, please contact baptism@northpoint.org.

What Baptism Symbolizes
Baptism is a way of showing others that you have entered into a relationship with Jesus Christ. It symbolizes what took place in your heart at the time of salvation:
* Accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
* Shared in His death and resurrection, illustrated by going under the water (dead to your old life), then rising again (new life).
* Were symbolically washed clean, and sins were forgiven by His death on the cross.

Because Jesus instructed us to be baptized, baptism is an act of obedience. While it is not necessary for salvation, it demonstrates submission to God. We immerse at North Point Community Church because we believe Scripture shows that Jesus modeled that for us as the way to publicly acknowledge our faith in Him. Infant Christening

Some denominations choose to christen infants. While we recognize the right of other churches to practice infant christening, we understand Scripture to teach that only professing believers qualify for baptism. Baptism does not make you a believer, rather it shows that you already believe.

The baptism process at North Point has been designed to be both simple and meaningful. From the registration form to the baptism meeting, each step has been carefully planned with you in mind:
1. Listen to the baptism message. You may request a CD at the email address below or listen to the message online.
2. Complete the Adult Baptism Registration Form. Once we receive your registration form, we will contact you to schedule your videotaping and baptism.
3. Read about making your video. We want you to be as comfortable and prepared for the video as possible.
4. Attend a meeting and film your testimony. After we receive your registration form, we'll contact you to schedule you for an informational meeting where you'll also have your testimony videotaped.
5. Get baptized! Baptisms take place during one of the Sunday services and include a showing of your prerecorded video.

For questions, please contact Beth Carson at baptism@northpoint.org.

Baptism Message
If you think baptism is the next step for you, take thirty minutes and listen to Andy's talk, "What About Baptism?" In the message, he answers the questions we are most often asked about baptism.
LISTEN TO MESSAGE - Windows Media
LISTEN TO MESSAGE - Real
WATCH ONLINE - Flash Video

What Does Fellowship Mean for the Little Sect on the Prairie?



Pope John is on the far left. Pastor Paul Schneider is on the far right. Paul's congregation in Midland is en-Dowed.


Norman Teigen said...
Greg Jackson went after Pres. Moldstad today and said that Moldstad has not disowned Church and Change. Can anyone help me here? Does the ELS have any kind of investment in Church and Change that we ELSers should know about? I know that one or two might have attended a C&C meeting or two but I am not aware of any links to C&C and the ELS. Please inform me of anything on this subject of which I am ignorant. [As I told GJ, my ignorance is vast and my understanding is thin.]

October 22, 2008 1:19 PM

Anonymous said...
Norm,
By the fact that ELS is in fellowship with WELS puts ELS in connection with Church and Change. It would be good if some objection was made in ELS like they did about women communing women in WELS. It would be like WELS being connected to Thoughts of Faith by the fact that WELS is in fellowship with ELS.

October 22, 2008 2:06 PM

***

GJ - The Preus brothers brought a motion to the floor of the ELS convention, about breaking fellowship with the LCMS over doctrinal issues.

For decades the ELS has worked in harmony with WELS to promote the Church Growth Movement. The ELS finally had a good paper on Church Growth in their Little Journal on the Prairie, but soon after one of their professors endorsed Valleskey's spoiling the Egyptians argument, which was copied from Larry Crab, of Fuller fame.

The Little Sect has always borrowed Church Growth gurus from WELS for presentations. The ELS is known for its pockets of Church Growthism, just as the CLC (sic) is known for theirs.

Norm is a kindly, gracious man. I love his blog. I did not "go after" Pope John the Malefactor. I simply addressed the issue. I did not have Pope John removed from his position. I did not rob Pope John of a living under false pretenses. I did not have Pope John shunned by all his brothers. I did not even slander Pope John. I slandered the real Pope by making the comparison. The Holy Father in Rome never got away with giving as many ministers the Left Foot of Fellowship as Pope John the Malefactor did. So, B-16, I apologize.

Speaking of Fellowship - Read This
When it was thought that Wayne Mueller had a chance of becoming the WELS Synod President, current Bethany Seminary President Gaylin Schmeling said on the floor of the ELS convention, "If they elect Wayne Mueller, we will have to break fellowship with WELS." ELS SP George Orvick frowned when this was said.

So I would call this blog pretty dag-gone mild compared to ELS conventional threats.

Bruce Becker Has Declared War on SP Schroeder: Who Will Win?



Mark Schroeder was elected Synod President as a protest against the Wayne Mueller-Gurgel regime.


Church and Change board member Bruce Becker was appointed in the previous regime and is now the truculent Administrator of Parish Services.


Let me explain what has happened since the election of SP Schroeder.

WELS was broke and using money dishonestly from its designated funds to keep things going. Gurgel fired the treasurer for telling them it was wrong to do so. Then Gurgel blamed the treasurer for the problem. And they made up another story, just as fanciful. Gurgel was urged to leave office before the forensic accountants arrived.

The Love Shack was and is packed with Church Growth (Church and Change) leaders appointed in the old regime. SP Schroeder inherited a blooming mess, a synod on its last legs. The districts responded to his leadership by boosting offerings at a phenomenal rate. From all reports, pastors and laity enjoy and respect Schroeder's leadership.

SP Schroeder urged the boards not to call anyone new to any position, due to the financial crisis, which was real and still hangs over their heads. Moreover, he urged them not to try to call a lightning rod who would be divisive.

The Board for Parish Services (Bruce Becker) said repeatedly that they would do whatever they wanted. I believe SP Schroeder made about five requests and then told them he was no longer meeting with DPS on purpose, because they would not listen.

To show their defiance, Bruce Becker and the DPS called Paul Kelm, the most notorious lighting rod, to an expensive position not needed and not even used for the last two years. Does WELS really need one more Church Growth/Church and Change/Becoming Missional guru running around promoting Deformed doctrine?

So the Kelm call was a Purpose-Driven pot of poo flung in the face of the entire synod - "You can pay for our Reformed agenda to be promoted. So there."

The Church and Change wing, which is much more connected and extensive than imagined before, will work to put in their man for First VP, the position Mueller vacated in a huff. They will look for someone who can fool people into thinking he is conservative. Up until now, Patterson would have been ideal. His vicars have the right DNA. He is a district VP, which means in WELS that he is the next District Pope. He has an editorial position with FIC. He has other synodical brownie points. Someone like Patterson will walk into the next convention with a block of votes and a bevvy of subtle kudos from his wiley supporters.

If a Church and Change VP is elected, write off WELS for good. Everything possible will be done to neutralize Schroeder's leadership from that time on. And I would not be surprised to see someone take on Schroeder for the SP office itself. If someone has a block of votes for SP on the first ballot, that is the Manchurian candidate to deliver WELS to Fuller, Willow Creek, and the scrofulous bosom of ELCA.

Another bad event would be a refusal to accept the changes suggested by the study committee. I hate reading boring stuff like that, but I get the impression that they want to tame Parish Services, which has existed and grown in parallel with Church and Change.

Your Offering Money at Work -
Supporting WELS Church and Change, Baptist Pulpit Sniffing VP



District VP Patterson: "Hey suckers. Pay for my vicars with your offering money, so I can train them in Church and Change and take them to hear Baptists teach us how to do mission work."


Synod mission money supports the C&C movement: (the missions in Texas our pure and simple C&C)

Patterson continues to beg for more synod mission money: (Mission enhancement)

http://www.welssc.org/Reports/2008/2008-10%20DMB%20Report.pdf

Field Reports: Mission Enhancement

2) Holy Word – Austin, Texas. Pastor Don Patterson. Holy Word’s Hispanic Ministry Coordinator (Staff Minister) is an example of Mission Enhancement. The idea is to enhance a congregation’s current mission work by adding staff or resources. Holy Word will be resubmitting their request to the DMB on January 16, 2009.


Maybe rather than using his congregations money to see Ed Stetzer Patterson should have his church pay for their own staffing needs.

How Al Sorum Began Teaching at WLS, aka The Sausage Factory


Step One: WLS President Wendland joined Al Sorum's congregation.



Step Two: Al Sorum, Heresiarch of Church Growth, got a job teaching false doctrine at The Sausage Factory, Mequon.



Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "My Predictions for WELS":

FYI
The current president of the Sausage Factory is also as growthy as they come. When he came to Mequon he chose to join -- out of all the WELS churches in Southeastern Wisconsin -- Garden Homes, pastored by none other than overt growth guru E.A. Sorum. Not long after, Sorum was called to case sausages under Wendland at the factory. Coincidence?

Also, it's well known that Valleskey picked Wendland to be his replacement as Factory Foreman.

Administrative Officers
Prof. Paul O. Wendland
President

Prof. Forrest L. Bivens (Bragged about going to Fuller, now has position Valleskey held before V. became WLS president)
Vice President, Financial Aid Officer

Prof. John M. Brenner (Certainly not as tough on doctrine as his father, Slick)
Dean of Students, Recruitment Officer

Prof. Paul E. Zell
Academic Dean

Prof. Richard L. Gurgel
Secretary

Prof. John D. Schuetze
Registrar

Prof. John P. Hartwig
Library Director

Prof. John F. Brug (Women's ordination? No problem. Church Growth - no problem.)
Managing Editor, Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly

Prof. James P. Tiefel (Mr. Ecumenism)
Dean of Chapel, Director of Student Field Services

Prof. E. Allen Sorum (Proof that cream does not rise to the top)
Director of Pastoral Studies Institute

Bailing Water Comments - Worth Reading



Church and Change removed the traditionalists.


Bailing Water blog

Anonymous said...
I give up.. We now have WELS pastors jetting across country soaking up reformed methods. We have C&C inviting speakers from these conferences. We are dropping the name Lutheran. And you, Tim, and others say keep on rolling.

Maybe it is time to leave this synod!

October 22, 2008 8:12 AM


Anonymous said...
Thank-you, Anonymous of 8:12 AM.
I am watching for awhile yet and hope that President Schroeder will lead and take a stand against all this that is happening. I cannot figure out why the C&C group even wants to be part of WELS.
My conscience is bothering me too much to continue being a part of the WELS while C&C is operating within WELS. I am unable to commune at the altars of some WELS' congregations due to my conscience.
If WELS wants to continue the direction C&C is taking then I need to leave. If Ed Stetzer does give the keynote address at the C&C Conference in November, 2009 then I will definitely leave. For me it would be a sure sign of the WELS' praesidium giving approval to this direction. I cannot be a part of that. This is really getting very painful to watch.

October 22, 2008 8:59 AM


Anonymous said...
"I am watching for awhile yet and hope that President Schroeder will lead and take a stand against all this that is happening."

All what you fear comes out of the Seminary. This is where this stuff is taught and tolerated. There is no Christological or sacramental focus given the students and so when they get out they have to try to come up with something to grow the church.

Been there, know that.

October 22, 2008 9:52 AM


Anonymous said...
When did that change at the Seminary? What would be the appropriate way to approach this before I leave WELS? Why is there no Christological or sacramental focus anymore? Aren't there enough members and pastors to get us back on the right track even if it means that we separate?
Synod is supposed to mean "Walking Together" but WELS has pastors and congregations and members walking in all different directions. I was taught in adult instructions that WELS was uniform in doctrine and practice. It definitely is NOT. It seems that more and more congregations are looking at the things of man instead of the things of God. I have started my letter of resignation but hope it does not get to the point that I need to submit it. I'm not sure I can commune anymore because it would be publicly showing that I am in agreement with all of WELS.

October 22, 2008 11:27 AM

Episcopal Bishop Shows How Apostasy Works - Warning to Lutherans




NORRISTOWN, PA: The Trial of Charles E. Bennison - Day Two

By David W. Virtue

www.virtueonline.org

10/21/2008

Charles E. Bennison, the deposed Bishop of Pennsylvania took the stand in the second day of his trial today and adopted what has became famously known as the (Alberto) Gonzales Defense.

On innumerable occasions, while being grilled by Fr. David E. Moyer's attorney John H. Lewis, Jr., Bennison replied, "I don't recall," "I don't remember," or "I don't know."

In 2002, Bennison inhibited and later deposed Fr. Moyer, rector of the Church of the Good Shepherd, Rosemont, PA using the Episcopal Church Canon Law [Title IV, Canon 10, Sec. 1], barring Fr. Moyer from serving his congregation and exercising his ordained ministry.

Fr. Moyer accepted the inhibition and stood down from his ecclesiastical duties for the six-month period.

The bishop cited "abandonment of Communion" as grounds for his action, a charge Fr. Moyer consistently denied. Under cross examination, the Anglo-Catholic priest turned the tables on Bennison saying it was Moyer, not the bishop who was upholding the faith, saying the bishop could not defend Jesus as "the way, the truth and the life," the deity of Christ or traditional views of the sacredness of marriage between a man and a woman.

Judge Joseph E. Smyth incredulously asked, "I can't believe that a bishop of the Christian church believes that Jesus could only be 'a way'." Moyer responded saying that he felt angry and betrayed by Bennison. The inhibition and later deposition cost him dearly in friends, suffered personal rebuffs, was left alone and was snubbed, and was financially strapped as he had been a priest for over 25 years.

As a result of the deposition, Moyer suffered a number of physical ailments, including severe back aches. At times he was reduced to tears by Bennison's actions.

Under relentless examination by Lewis, Bennison admitted that he had visited the Church of the Good Shepherd some 10 times from 1997 to 2004. Moyer and the vast majority of the congregation graciously accepted Bennison each time.

Lewis: Did you worship in the congregation?
Bennison: I worshipped and met with the vestry.
Lewis: Were you given communion?
Bennison: Yes.
Lewis: After you attended a church service did you talk with congregation? Were you ever offered the opportunity to address the congregation?
Bennison: I don't recall.
Lewis: Did you ever offer an opportunity to Fr. Moyer for Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold to make an official visitation?
Bennison: I did not.
Lewis: Did you have a Public Relations program designed to get Fr. Moyer?
Bennison: I did not. I did it for the entire diocese.
Lewis: What was the strategy of the PR program?
Bennison: Because of the worldwide publicity we needed to inform members of the Anglican Church globally what we were doing to effect reconciliation.
Lewis: Did you edit a background paper against Fr Moyer?
Bennison: I did participate in the authoring of the paper. Lewis: Did you edit it?
Bennison: I don't recall.
Lewis: There was a background paper on the discipline of Moyer. Was it revised and edited by you? Were these your views?
Bennison: It is not one particular view. The conversation sought wisdom from the most prudent people we could find.
Lewis: There was a disclaimer...you signed off on it. Is this your signature?
Bennison: I suppose so.
Lewis: Did you have a conversation with Moyer about the Parsons Plan for visitation by a traditionalist bishop for traditional parishes instead of yourself?
Bennison: I said I would have no problem with the Parsons Plan.
Later, when he took the stand, Fr. Moyer said Bennison reneged on the Parson's Plan that he promised the eight traditionalist priests at the time he ran for bishop. He was elected with the help of these priests. Moyer said he felt betrayed when Bennison halted the plan.
Asked by Lewis if he was photographed joking with the Rev. Bill Wood, president of the Standing Committee at the signing of the deposition, Bennison replied that he had no recollection of any humor.
Lewis: What witticism or joke did you tell? Bennison: It was one of the bleakest days of my episcopacy, an incredibly dark day.
Lewis: You held two meetings (there were four) around the diocese following the deposition of Moyer.
Bennison: I can't recall.
Lewis: In October 2002? Bennison: I don't recall. I did not make any statement. Lewis: Did you have to depose Moyer since the Presiding Bishop had asked you not to? Did you ever think to give him a trial? Bennison: We initiated a process...to delay in order to avoid a trial. Lewis: Did you think of giving Moyer a trial rather than deposing him under Canon 10?
Bennison: Canon 10 seemed less draconian and would give him more time to respond. I did not want to put ourselves into a polarized situation. I did not want to go there.

The trial will continue tomorrow.

***

GJ - This trial is a mirror of how Lutheran district presidents work. Pope John the Malefactor (Little Sect on the Prairie) did the same things with a number of pastors and congregations. His basic threat was - If you disagree with me, I will toss the congregation out of the synod, so get rid of your pastor now. Some caved in to the dictator. Others left the ELS. Did cardinals elect Pope John the Malefactor? No. Did pastors only? No. The whole ELS convention, as tiny as it is, elected him and asked for more.

Has Pope John the Malefactor objected to Church and Change? There is no record of it happening. If it does, Ichabod will report the miracle, which will be bigger than Fatima and Lourdes rolled together.

---

Norman Teigen has left a new comment on your post "Episcopal Bishop Shows How Apostasy Works - Warnin...":

GJ: 'Church and Change' is a WELS problem. How are you linking President Moldstad to C&C? What is there about this situation that I might be ignorant of. [My ignorance is vast, my understanding is small]

Norman Teigen
ELS layman
(Disclaimer: I am a member of the ELS but I do not speak for the ELS.

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Episcopal Bishop Shows How Apostasy Works - Warnin...":

I agree 100 per cent with GJ. ELS is in doctrinal fellowship with WELS and the silence of the ELS on Church and Change and the shenanigans within WELS' "unLutheran" congregations points to agreement. Norm, where is the speaking out against this kind of stuff in the ELS? Doctrinal fellowship connects the ELS to all of WELS. You cannot pick and choose what to agree on and what not to agree on.
WHY, oh WHY, did Issues in WELS disband?? It implies all is well within WELS.

***

GJ - The ELS is in fellowship with WELS. That is why WELS (under Wayne Mueller) forced the Little Sect to adopt their strange ministry theses. So does this work both ways? The silence of the lambs in the ELS tells me they have no problems with Church and Change.

---

rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "Episcopal Bishop Shows How Apostasy Works - Warnin...":

Wasn't there a similar type of scenario with Pastor Kevin Hastings of St. John's? Kevin Hastings is confessional and was objecting to the rampant enthusiasm in the Metro North conference (Milwaukee). My guess is that they were laying low to hang this one that they had deemed was the troubler of Israel. The vandalism incident at gracechurch was the rope that he was hung with. When I asked one of my co-workers who was WELS-connected if he could give me some of the dirty details of the defenestration of Hastings, the answer that I got was both telling and compelling. "Talk to the DP" was the reply that was supposed to satisfy my curiosity. Now I see said the blind man. Go get the official story from the DP. That smelled awfully fishy. This forced the hand of the small membership of St. John's to decide whether to stay in the Holy Mother Synod (and have to depend upon the DP and the tainted calling process) or go on their own by retaining Pastor Hastings. Depending upon Holy Mother Synod to find a replacement for Pastor Hastings would have been a crap shoot at best. This historic congregation, once the home of Johannes Bading, was out of place compared to nearby gracechurch and Time of Grace St. Marcus, home of Ski. I could only speculate that beautiful old St. John's would have faced a quicker demise in the hands of the synod masters.

***

GJ - I know Pastor Hastings and I have been in that church. Tagging Grace Church was pretty juvenile, but the real crime was disagreeing with Holy Mother Synod. Has anyone else noticed that the churches closest to the Vatican (any denomination) are the worst, the most apostate?

In contrast, WELS organized a bus trip to defend teacher Al Just, who murdered his wife. The father of the pastor of Grace, DMLC President Huebner, defended the murdered on the stand. Call me legalistic, but I think murder and adultery are worse than tagging. Just married his children's baby-sitter, while biding his time in the hoosegow, but they divorced.

I could list a wide variety of official coverups, including the Tabor murder.

District Presidents



My VP is a Church and Changer? A Baptist pulpit-sniffer? Have you gone to him about this? You are worse than...