Church and Change, Members of the Bored

Portrait of the hero as lazy dog.

Pastor Ron Ash Chairman

Jeff Davis Vice Chairman

Sarah Owens Secretary

Barry Spencer

Caleb Cordes

Pastor Bruce Becker

Pastor John Huebner

James Skorzewski

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GJ - These people are bored of Lutheran doctrine. They find Christ-centered worship, based on the Means of Grace, boring. They evangelize by making fun of liturgical worship as boring.

They have invited Babtist Ed Stetzer to harangue WELS on Becoming Missional.

When Ed Stetzer discussed the Book of Concord on his tedious blog, he made fun of it. He was patronizing in his comments. Birds of a feather do flock together.

What does this genius do all year, besides traveling and talking, and writing about his traveling and talking? Nothing.

A faithful Lutheran pastor in the tiniest Lutheran congregation is more productive than all the Stetzers put together. The faithful pastors sows the Seed of the Word with abandon. He does not bully God into giving him visible results to brag about in his next book. He is busy enough with studying the Word and the Confessions so that he has no time to tell every other denomination about the art--or is it the scam?--of Becoming Missional.

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By Their Fruits Ye Shall Know Them (Rock and Roll Member JK)

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Church and Change, Members of the Bored":

"A faithful Lutheran pastor in the tiniest Lutheran congregation is more productive than all the Stetzers put together. The faithful pastors sows the Seed of the Word with abandon. He does not bully God into giving him visible results to brag about in his next book. He is busy enough with studying the Word and the Confessions so that he has no time to tell every other denomination about the art--or is it the scam?--of Becoming Missional."........


...or he cruises the internet all day long and publishes a blog full of propaganda filled with the viciousness and venom of a Pharisee hissing like the vipers Jesus so aptly named them.

JK

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GJ - I must have been too subtle. I suggested that the faithful pastor of the smallest WELS church would be far better speaking at Church and Change than that Babtist Ed Stetzer. What wisdom does a Babtist without a congregation have to offer Lutheran pastors with congregations?

From what I can see, Rock and Roll needs more training in how to PhotoShop another church's logo.

Heroes at Two Locations, Maybe More

Heroes at Wesleyan

Heroes at a church called Bridge.

Graphic from Del Sol Baptist, a series that begin in June, 2007.


This is the image at Doebler's Rock and Roll, a bad PhotoShop of the Wesleyan one above.

St. Mark, Depere. Bad PhotoShop erasing of Hebrews 11 from the Babtist Del Sol Church. Take another workshop from Adobe, please.

From St. Mark, Depere
Heroes! We're all drawn to them. Many of us like to watch them in surround sound and Hi-Def! We admire their decisiveness and their ability to think clearly in the face of adversity. In our own lives, we will experience defining moments when we're called upon to act heroically! How can we make sure that we're up to the task? Let's see what God has to say in this new sermon series entitled "Heroes."

2066 Lawrence Drive, De Pere, WI 54115 920-336-2485

Dorky Dad wrote this about Andy Stanley

Since attending North Point, I'd never heard a questionable sermon from Andy or one that made me wonder where he was coming from until August when he delivered the 4-part "Heroes" series. In a nutshell, Andy made the case that a hero is defined as someone who has 1) clarity -and- 2) an irresistable urge to act. My immediate thoughts in hearing this definition were, "where is this in scripture" and "whose clarity?" In my humble opinion, he gave weak answers to both questions, but I hoped that perhaps in a followup sermon he would comprehensively address both.

Here is the book described at Amazon:

Stanley, pastor of the North Point Community Church ("median age of 30") and author of Like A Rock, has made a ministry out of giving advice to people slightly younger than himself, and in this tepid leadership sermon he distills his wisdom into five core principles. Competence, Courage, Clarity, Coaching and Character, he says, are the keys to influencing future leaders. Stanley's advice-focus on what you do best and delegate the rest, seek out the counsel of coaches, don't let success blind you to what's right and wrong-is very sound, if not much of a departure from any other brand of leadership advice. His precepts are often illustrated with Bible stories about leaders like David (courage), Joshua (clarity) and King Rehoboam (paying heed to elders).

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GJ - The Church and Change mob is falling down in love with Andy Stanley. One of their bored members (bored with Lutheran doctrine) Ski went to the Drive08 conference to hear Babtist Andy Stanley. There are many sermon series named Heroes to borrow, and we know Parkow/Kelm love to borrow sermons verbatim from non-Lutherans and publish them as their own. A PhotoShopped graphic does not prove anything by itself, but smoke from their burning desire to be non-Lutheran has been spotted before.

Here is the primary problem with the sermon series I have spotted so far. Stanley turns examples from the Bible into his heroic efforts to build a mega-church, so it is really a business lecture. The typical Reformed series on people from the Bible focus on figures of the Bible rather than Christ. The Bible is not a book of moral tales about heroes. The Word of God is exclusively about Christ as The Hero, as Luther wrote more than once.

My suggestion - steal brazenly from Luther. "The closer to Luther, the better the theologian."

PS - Want an exercise in total boredom? Find a video of an Andy Stanley service. I saw a scruffy looking guy in a long-sleeved t-shirt (Superman emblem) talking about something, some young adults acting out something, etc. Andy is channeling Willow Crick. They know their market, "This book. It's all about us."

Austin to Rock and Roll - "We Need Some Damage Control on Your Website!"

Rock and Roll Firewall Engaged. Evidence Gone. Next Question?

I was checking my links when suddenly, Rock and Roll's URL did not work. I noticed that Austin was reading the blog today, at about the same time.

I have no idea if Patterson told Doebler to cover up again, but for now the link to Rock and Roll does not work.

When I reported on Church From Scratch drooling over all the big churches of the Enthusiasts - and non-Christians like Xenos - the CFS website became an autoforwarding link to Rock and Roll.

That is why I copy verbatim from websites and give the links.

Church and Change Summary

Church from Scratch, aka Doebler's Rock and Roll

I needed something to help me fall asleep last night, so I went over the material published on Church and Change.

Church and Change began at WELS' Wisconsin Lutheran College, a school where the homosexual Roman Catholic Archbishop R. Weakland gave a highly publicized speech. The school also invited Martin Marty to speak and kept the engagement, even though the lagomorphs of the Michigan District objected.

Who's Who in Church and Change?

I noticed these concentrations from looking over all the names:

1. Bruce Becker, Perish Services of WELS. This is perhaps the only parachruch organization which overlaps the synod office at the same time.
   
2. Mark Jeske: Many are directly connected with Mark Jeske, Time of Grace, and St. Markus. Some are currently with Jeske's stealth operation. Ski (who adored at Babtist Andy Stanley but shunned Dan Deutschlander) is one of the recent graduates.
   
3. John Parlow: Another frequent flier is Parlow at St. Mark's, Green Bay and Depere. Kelm and Parlow go together like Islam and jihad.
   
4. District VP Patterson. His circle is a combination of family reunion and parish associates: Babtist Ed Stetzer diciples - Matt Doebler, John Stelljes; former vicars Mark Tiefel, Caleb Schoeneck, Andy Mueller et al. Holy Word gets synod money for free vicars - Field Reports: Mission Enhancement. Holy Word – Austin, Texas. Pastor Don Patterson. Holy Word’s Hispanic Ministry Coordinator (Staff Minister) is an example of Mission Enhancement. The idea is to enhance a congregation’s current mission work by adding staff or resources. Holy Word will be resubmitting their request to the DMB on January 16, 2009.
   
5. Grant-writing. Church and Change teaches their diciples how to write grant proposals, to grab offering money from the synod. And who gets to vote on these proposals? Church and Change board members from The Love Shack (Bruce Becker) and the interlocking buddies via District VP Patterson (synod council, Board of Home Missions, Kingdom Workers).

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GJ - I feel compelled to spell disciple as diciple when discussing the ignorant pulpit-sniffers who pursue Ed Stetzer. Since Stetzer cannot spell discipleship, they would feel more comfortable as diciples.

Babtist Northpoint (Drive08 Conference) looks just like Rock and Roll Church. All the Rock and Roll churches look the same - the stage of a rock concert. How tacky and meretricious can pastors be?

Enthusiasm at Work at Rock and Roll

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Doctrinal Roadblocks to UOJ from the Formula of Co...":

Christ died so that all men could be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. By Grace, through faith we are saved. If that Grace or Righteousness or whatever you want to call it does not exist before our conversion takes place, then where does it come from? It has to be there in the first place so that it is there to believe. We can't believe in something that is not there. It has nothing to do with piety. This kind of thinking skews into such heresy as predestination and once saved always saved and this is not the case.

Look at the thief on the cross with Jesus. He never partook of the means of grace and yet he went to heaven that day. It was Grace by faith alone that saved the thief that day which was given to him by God through Christ's death. Christ died for ALL!!!

JK
[probably Joe Krohn, member of Doebler's Rock and Roll Church, former member of Gunn's stealth church, CrossWalk Laveen, two beehives for Enthusiasts who "hate going to church."]

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GJ - JK would teach everyone on the Internet about the Bible, climb into heaven and convert the angels, if he could. However, I understand angels love going to church. Read Hebrews.

The thief was saved without the Means of Grace? There you have it, Ichabodians, a man who knows nothing and volunteers to join the teaching office of the Church.

The Word, visible and invisible, is the instrument (means) of God's grace. The visible Word consists of Holy Baptism and Holy Communion. The invisible Word consists of preaching and teaching the Word. Christ comes to us through the Word. His grace comes to us through the Word. The separation of the Holy Spirit from the Word is called Enthusiasm in the Book of Concord. Enthusiasm is repeatedly condemned in the Confessions as the foundation of all error.

Jesus spoke the Word to the thief, who displayed godly sorrow for his sins and faith in the Savior. Faith is necessary for salvation. Baptism is not absolutely necessary, but we should not despise it, as the Enthusiasts do. For example, Rock and Roll hides Holy Communion by having it celebrated before the service: stealth communion at a stealth congregation of the increasingly stealthy Wisconsin sect.

KJV Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh
better things than that of Abel.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Enthusiasm at Work at Rock and Roll":

Please stop with the melodramatics. I'm not trying to convert the internet or angels. I'm having enough trouble with you as it is. :)

We were in agreement until you started talking about some kind of separation of the Holy Spirit from the Word, if that were possible. You got that from what I said? Where? How?

You should answer my questions before twisting my words and assuming to know something with your condescension on which you are grossly mis-informed. (CTR) How convenient it is for you on your blog to sidestep the issue and questions put to you by expounding on trivial points that have no bearing on the big picture of the discussion. Shame on you.

Now, please answer the question.

DOES (sic) GRACE AND JUSTIFICATION EXIST BEFORE A PERSON BELIEVES?

A simple yes or no will suffice if that is possible.

JK

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GJ - Please study your Book of Concord, Joe Krohn, Rock and Roll theologian. Afterwards, read the blog sections on UOJ. No one is justified apart from faith. Atonement, reconciliation, propitiation, redemption (two different Greek words) - all express the truth that Christ died for the sins of the world.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Enthusiasm at Work at Rock and Roll":

Hold the phone, Joan!!!!

Baptism is not absolutely necessary for salvation? Did I read that correctly? (buzz, buzz...wrong answer)

I surmise that even the thief had a Baptism of the Spirit. Does this not preclude all faith? Is this not necessary?????

Be careful now....God is watching...

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GJ - I am not sure if this is Joe Krohn or not. If it is, he is really mixed up. If not, this is where the Church and Change diciples are going. Many of them are already there.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Enthusiasm at Work at Rock and Roll":

I should have known. I don't think there is a yes or no in your vocabulary. They are dangerous words, no?

I don't trust a book written by men(errant) to tell me what the Bible(inerrant) says or a blog section for that matter.

Jesus many times talks about the 'Water of Life' (His Word) as a washing agent. See Eph. 5:25-27.

Unless we are washed by water (Word) and Spirit we can not enter into eternal life.

Happy Reformation Day!

So where am I going?

JK

The Late B. Obama