SpenerQuest Continues To Misinterpret Scripture, Luther, and the Book of Concord.They Love To Make Unwarranted Claims - Cannot Bear To Quote or Link Sources - Except Wikipedia

Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 336 Registered: 1-2002	Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 10:04 am:       The reason that ELDoNA takes a careful line with Walther and The Brief Statement is because they are made up of and have fellowship with congregations that used to be part of the LCMS. They put the complete "onus of error" on Franz Pieper, erstwhile chief theologian of the LCMS. In dealing with what they would do or not do with The Brief Statement they declare in Thesis 7: "While we may have had a 'received body of doctrine' beyond Scripture and the Confessions in a previous body of affiliation, the lack of ownership of the documents setting forth the same--and, thus, our inability to modify such non-binding documents where they have misspoken--prevents us from adopting the same as our own in such a way as to make them settlers of disputes. That is, the only way to adopt a non-binding document over which we do not have ownership (and, thus, cannot alter) is to adopt it as unalterable and binding ..." Even the Missouri Synod, which might be considered to "own" The Brief Statement, would never alter it. ELDoNA here is declaring its independence as a new denomination that can start afresh with writing and publishing their own doctrinal statements as they just have; however, they run the risk of not being a haven for confessional congregations and pastors, who want to maintain adherence to The Brief Statement. The Gregory Jackson connection comes in with their observation in their prefatory material: "While in practice we have often witnessed a minimizing of the Means of Grace in bodies that hold to this teaching, that is certainly not the intent of those who first promoted it, since such reception is done by means of faith that is created in the one receiving by the Holy Ghost’s use of the Gospel." Gregory Jackson accuses those who hold to the biblical teaching of Objective Justification of Enthusiasm in that he alleges that they in speaking of a justification of any kind irrespective of faith deny the scriptural doctrine of the Means of Grace. This, of course, is a "straw man" fallacy because in addition to confessing the biblical doctrine of Objective Justification we also confess the biblical doctrines of Subjective Justification through faith wrought by God through his Means of Grace. Jackson is also keen on using other logical fallacies such as "poisoning the well" and "post hoc propter hoc."
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4227 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 2:35 pm:       Can it be just last year that "Rev. Paul Rydecki Receives Sabre of Boldness 2012" from the Gottesdeinst editors?!?
George Mueller (Mueller) Senior Member Username: Mueller Post Number: 1050 Registered: 11-2012	Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 3:57 pm:       They should ask Rydecki to return it.
Joe Krohn (Jekster) Member Username: Jekster Post Number: 180 Registered: 4-2011	Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 4:13 pm:       All men are saved unless they are in rejection of this salvation. I like this analogy alot (I would change 'acceptance' to 'receipt' so as not to sound like the Reformed): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wils on "United States v. Wilson, 32 U.S. 150 (1833), was a trial in the United States in which the defendant, George Wilson, was convicted of robbing the US Mail in Pennsylvania. Due to his friends' influence, Wilson was pardoned by Andrew Jackson. Wilson, however, refused the pardon. The Supreme Court was thus asked to rule on the case. The decision was that if the prisoner does not accept the pardon, it is not in effect: "A pardon is a deed, to the validity of which delivery is essential, and delivery is not complete without acceptance. It may then be rejected by the person to whom it is tendered; and if it is rejected, we have discovered no power in this court to force it upon him." Therefore, Wilson was not released from prison early.[1]"
Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Intermediate Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 341 Registered: 1-2002	Posted on Tuesday, November 05, 2013 - 4:45 pm:       Great analogy, Joe! Luther would be proud.

Philosophical Language Is Not Faith Language

Philosophy got the Episcopalians
women priests, a woman as Presiding Bishop,
gay and lesbian bishops.
Ditto ELCA.

I consider Halle University and Kantian philosophy to be the turning points in theology. Both ushered in the modern era of evolution and rationalism.

Dr. Lito Cruz, who knows something about formal and informal logic, wrote with some authority about the inherent Calvinism in Universal Objective Justification.

And the problem with Calvinism is placing human reason above the Word of God. Luther saw that in Zwingli (who preceded Calvin); Chemnitz dealt directly with Calvinism (Lord's Supper).

Luther always subordinated human reason to the Word, which is so clear in his explanation of the First Commandment in the Large Catechism.

In his explanation of the First Table of the Ten Commandments, Luther teaches the efficacy of the Word and the need for complete trust in that Word. We only know the true nature of God only through His revelation in the Scriptures.

But Calvin thought of the Word of God as a dead letter that needed human reason to make it come alive. This is what eventually divorced philosophy from theology, so much that virtually all philosophy professors are atheists. Nothing is true unless it can be proven apart from God, and they do not know what truth is.

Luther was wary of philosophical arguments, even though he could run circles around his opponents, using their vocabulary and studies against them. That was his method, to take away the weapons of his opponents and defeat the false teachers with their own argumentation.

Roman Catholic priests, nuns, and theologians are steeped in philosophy. Modern theologians see Kant as the pivotal figure for theology and philosophy.

Every time a UOJ advocate writes, I see a philosophical argument that all the modern theologians would be proud of - since they think the same way.

 Examples of the Philosophy of UOJ:

• If Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world, the entire world has been declared free of sin.
• If Jesus rose for our justification, everyone was justified when He rose from the dead.
• Grace cannot be grace if anyone adds a contingency like faith, so faith is a work and destroys the concept of God's graciousness.
• When Jesus took on our sinfulness, every single person took on His righteousness.

No one can penetrate the density of their logic, because their philosophical assumptions preclude any other conclusions than the ones that logically follow. But they have argued in circles, since Walther must be right and their sects must be infallible. They simply cannot face the fallibility of Walther, Valleskey, Olson, Kelm, or their sects.

Hidden in the turmoil of their soul-sickness is this clergy fear, "If I admit to justification by faith, everything about my synod is false, corrupt, and deceptive. And worst of all - I am out of a job, an easy and secure life."

Laity also fear shunning and FB unfriending.

Each denomination reaches the point where no one dares
to question the ordination of women.

Washington Post Catches Up with Ichabod. No Lutheran Admits to Learning about the Tatt Preacher from Reading Here

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/bolz-webers-liberal-foulmouthed-articulation-of-christianity-speaks-to-fed-up-believers/2013/11/03/7139dc24-3cd3-11e3-a94f-b58017bfee6c_story.html

Bolz-Weber’s liberal, foulmouthed articulation of Christianity speaks to fed-up believers

View Photo Gallery — A budding star of progressive Christianity: Nadia Bolz-Weber, a tattooed Lutheran minister, represents a new, muscular form of progressive Christianity.

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By Michelle Boorstein, Published: November 3 E-mail the writer

AUSTIN — Nadia Bolz-Weber bounds into the University United Methodist Church sanctuary like a superhero from Planet Alternative Christian. Her 6-foot-1 frame is plastered with tattoos, her arms are sculpted by competitive weightlifting and, to show it all off, this pastor is wearing a tight tank top and jeans.

Looking out at the hundreds of people crowded into the pews to hear her present the gospel of Jesus Christ, she sees: Dockers and blazers. Sensible shoes. Grandmothers and soccer moms. Nary a facial piercing.

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To Bolz-Weber’s bafflement, this is now her congregation: mainstream America.

These are the people who put her memoir near the top of the New York Times bestseller list the week it came out in September. They are the ones who follow her every tweet and Facebook post by the thousands, and who have made the Lutheran minister a budding star for the liberal Christian set.

And who, as Bolz-Weber has described it in her frequently profane dialect, “are [mess]ing up my weird.”

A quick tour through her 44 years doesn’t seem likely to wind up here. It includes teen rebellion against her family’s fundamentalist Christianity, a nose dive into drug and alcohol addiction, a lifestyle of sleeping around and a stint doing stand-up in a grungy Denver comedy club. She is part of society’s outsiders, she writes in her memoir, its “underside dwellers . . . cynics, alcoholics and queers.”

Which is where — strangely enough — the match with her fans makes sense. The type of social liberals who typically fill the pews of mainline churches sometimes feel like outsiders among fellow liberals in their lives if they are truly believing Christians; if they are people who really experience Jesus and his resurrection, even if they can’t explain it scientifically; if they are people who want to hear words from the Apostles in church, not Thich Nhat Hanh or Barack Obama.

In her body and her theology, Bolz-Weber represents a new, muscular form of liberal Christianity, one that merges the passion and life-changing fervor of evangelicalism with the commitment to inclusiveness and social justice of mainline Protestantism. She’s a tatted-up, foul-mouthed champion to people sick of being belittled as not Christian enough for the right or too Jesus-y for the left.

“You show us all your dirty laundry! It’s all out there!” the Rev. John Elford of the University United Methodist Church booms, as if he is introducing a rock star, leading the cheering crowd into an impassioned round of hymn-singing.

Bolz-Weber springs onstage to do a reading from her book, but first she addresses the language that’s about to be unleashed on the pulpit: “I don’t think church leaders should pretend to be something they’re not.”

The crowd erupts into applause.

Bolz-Weber pulls out a few kitschy items that she raffles off to raise money for a local charity. She waves a gift certificate for a free tattoo. Then she speaks to her new reality:

“You ladies over 70 dig deep, because you know you want it!”

God without answers

Bolz-Weber’s appeal is unquestionably part packaging: dramatic back story, cool appearance, super-entertaining delivery. She launched a successful church for disaffected young people and has headlined youth gatherings tens of thousands strong. For a part of American religion that’s been in a long, slow institutional decline, this gives her major credibility.

More at the NYTimes website.

***

GJ - I have been covering this ELCA pastor for several years, simply because Ski is the Elijah for Bolz-Weber. Whatever you see in WELS is just a step behind ELCA and the Unitarian Universalists.

I predict she will be another flash in the pan, like Rev. "Love Wins."

Rob Bell got himself kicked out of his own congregation
for going Unitarian with his Love Wins book.
UOJ is essentially doctrine-neutral.

Classic Ichabod:

Tuesday, January 24, 2012

DID NADIA BOLZ-WEBER JUST CALL JESUS “A SCHMUCK”? : Apprising Ministries.
Emergent Church - What Missouri and WELS
And the Little Sect Love

ELCA Pastor - Emergent Church Speaker.

DID NADIA BOLZ-WEBER JUST CALL JESUS “A SCHMUCK”? : Apprising Ministries:

Apprising Ministries has long been maintaining thatMainstream Evangelicalism Is Now On The Rapid Slide To Apostasy because of its ongoing embrace of the egregiously ecumenical Emerging Church aka Emergent Church—morphing into Emergence Christianity—(EC). Along this line I have reminded you a few times now about the upcoming Emerging Church conference Christianity 21 (C 21) October 9-11. 

It’s important to keep in mind that C 21 is being put on by a most dubious duo of the EC, theologian Tony Jones and his quasi-universalist pastor Doug Pagitt. As AM previously pointed out Jo-Pa have informed us that “all 21 of these Voices,” women who’ll be revealing “the way the Christianity will be changing in coming days” are also going to “be in a pulpit somewhere in the Twin Cities that Sunday morning.”

One character among alleged “innovative” and “most important voices for the future of Christianity” who’ll “speak into our future” in order to “shape the future of our faith” at C 21 will be “queer inclusive” ELCA “pastor,” and former “professional f**k-up,” Nadia Bolz-Weber. I was actually thinking of not even publishing this article until I received the following email from a “hasty Bob” this morning:

Thanks for getting the word out about Nadia Bolz-Weber. I had never realized how much of an affront she is to those who disagree with her. Its interesting that she is such a great preacher and excellent expositor of the Word, which I’m sure you pride yourself upon being. “Pride goeth…

But thanks anyway for your contribution to the emerging church.

Well, we’ll ignore his little digs since there are undoubtedly people who think Pastrix Bolz-Weber—who really has no business whatsoever heading a church claiming Jesus Christ—is an “excellent expositor of the Word.” And as such, it now seems best in the Lord to further expose this pretending pastor. And if you’re tempted to think this is much ado about nothing then consider this from Bolz-Weber:

Wittenburg yesterday then spoke at a Lutheran seminary last night… (Online source) I’m loving GErmany. Spoke at a Lutheran Sem this AM (Online source)

So, as I said in Emergence Christianity Pastrix Nadia Bolz-Weber Expounds On Psalm 45 she was the one who alerted us to a podcast she’s just done with an Isaac Everett. Everett himself is also an EC pastor of sorts such as Bolz-Weber claims to be and in the introduction for his podcast Everett informs us:

Nadia Bolz-Weber, the Sarcastic Lutheran, discusses Psalm 45, the nerdiest love song in the Bible. Nadia is the pastor of the House for All Sinners and Saints in Denver and the author of Salvation on the Small Screen: 24 Hours of Christian Television. (Online source)

Pastrix Bolz-Weber calling Psalm 45 “the nerdiest Psalm ever” is precisely the focus of this particular piece. During the short “exposition” of Psalm 45 by this EC “Voice” Bolz-Weber will tell us that this Psalm talks about “like the chicks in your court, are like, totally hot,” and “it makes me think the person he’s writing about is actually kind of a schmuck and he doesn’t like him.” But Psalm 45 is a Messianic Psalm, it’s ultimately about the Christ—Jesus of Nazareth. 

Now what kind of a pastor actually sent by Jesus would dare to refer to a Messianic Psalm, inspired by God Himself, as the nerdiest Psalm ever; and especially one who makes the claim that she’s a Lutheran pastor. We already know from Luther’s Works, Vol 10 Lectures On The Psalms I, that Martin Luther held the position Psalm 45 was about Jesus; and now lets’s also consider the following from the great Bible commentator Matthew Henry:

This psalm is an illustrious prophecy of Messiah the Prince: it is all over gospel, and points at him only, as a bridegroom espousing the church to himself and as a king ruling in it and ruling for it. It is probable that our Saviour has reference to this psalm when he compares the kingdom of heaven, more than once, to a nuptial solemnity, the solemnity of a royal nuptial, Mt. 22:2; 25:1.

We have no reason to think it has any reference to Solomon’s marriage with Pharaoh’s daughter; if I thought that it had reference to any other than the mystical marriage between Christ and his church, I would rather apply it to some of David’s marriages, because he was a man of war, such a one as the bridegroom here is described to be, which Solomon was not. But I take it to be purely and only meant of Jesus Christ; of him speaks the prophet this, of him and of no other man; and to him (v. 6, 7) it is applied in the New Testament (Heb. 1:8), nor can it be understood of any other. (Online source)

Or how about this from Dr. Willem A. VanGemeren from the middle of the road evangelical Expositor’s Bible Commentary series: 

The psalm is a royal psalm and functioned as a wedding song at the occasion of the wedding of a royal couple. Because of the theological significance of the wedding and the function of the Davidic king within God’s order of life in Israel and Judah, the wedding song takes on typological significance. Applicable to any descendant of David, it extols the privileged position of his people and sets forth God’s expectations of his appointed vassal on earth (cf. Pss 2; 110).

In a special way the psalm also applies to our Lord, who rules as the Son of David (cf. Heb 1:8). However, the expositor must first listen to the psalm in the context of Israel and restrain himself from reading only the relationship of Christ and the church into this text. In this manner he can appreciate more the blessedness of the rule of the One born of a woman into the lineage of David: Jesus our Messiah. (Psalm 45, CR Rom)

It’s pretty clear for those with ears to hear that the inspired Psalmist, while likely intending to write simply of the royal wedding of someone in the Davidic line, was then guided by God the Holy Spirit (see—2 Peter 1:20-21) to also write concerning the Messiah Himself i.e. Christ Jesus. So with this proper Bibliology in mind I will point you to the clip below by Christian apologist Chris Rosebrough from his Fighting For The Faith program on his Pirate Christian Radio network where he further elucidates the proper Biblical context of Psalm 45. 

Among other things, as Rosebrough deconstructs the foolishness of Bolz-Weber and Everett from that aforementioned podcast, he brings out a key point in that God would inspire the writer of the Book of Hebrews to quote from Psalm 45 and apply it to Jesus the Christ:

Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness; you have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions. (Psalm 45:6-7, ESV)

But of the Son he says, ”Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” (Hebrews 1:8-9, ESV)

Rosebrough happens to be dead-on-target when he says:

It is unmistakeable (sic) that, here in Psalm 45, we’re got this amazing—amazing—prophecy regarding Jesus Christ Himself. And so, in this royal wedding Psalm, there is embedded in it, a clear allusion to Jesus Christ; and I would even say the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. The coming future eschatological event when Jesus Christ, and the Bride of Christ—which is His Church—are joined together.

Which now brings me to my original question: Did Nadia Bolz-Weber just call Jesus Christ a schmuck? Answer: Yes, she did. And here’s the bigger question: Why doesn’t this seem to bother anyone? Well, as I told Bolz-Weber and her EC ilk before; here’s a newsflash: She’s the one foolish enough to attempt to pass herself off as a gay-affirming woman who’s supposedly a Lutheran pastor doing “Emerging Church ala Luther,” and then allows herself to be touted by two well-respected Emergent Church leaders as one of the “most important voices for the future of Christianity.”

And so she’d best be prepared for those like myself whom God has raised up and given forums where we can — reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith (Titus 1:13, NASB).

---

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2487631/Tattooed-female-weightlifter-Nadia-Bolz-Weber-hit-Lutheran-minister.html

'I swear like a truck driver': Tattooed female weightlifter who boozed and took drugs becomes rising star of the Lutheran church  

• Nadia Bolz-Weber's sermons may include the odd swear word
• The 44-year-old is covered in tattoos and admits taking drugs 
• Now she is preaching at a church in Denver and pulling in the crowds

By TARA BRADY

PUBLISHED: 05:12 EST, 5 November 2013 | UPDATED: 11:17 EST, 5 November 2013

 
 
 

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comments

She's 6ft 1in tall, a former stand-up comic and now a competitive weightlifter but when she isn't down the gym working out, tattoo-covered Nadia Bolz-Weber is a Lutheran pastor. 

'I swear like a truck driver', she said. 

'I refuse to pretend I'm somebody I'm not', she told abc. 

SCROLL DOWN FOR VIDEO

New approach: Nadia Bolz-Weber is a rising star in the Lutheran church who has a growing congregation

Reverend Bolz-Weber, who has experimented with Wicca, is now the pastor of All Sinners and Saints - a Lutheran church in Denver, Colorado. 

While normal church events might end with the congregation blessing themselves on the way out, this church prefers to have a dance party featuring a chocolate fountain in the baptismal font. 

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But despite her alternative approach, her quirky sermons which are littered with profanities has worked. 

Her congregation is growing and hundreds of people now peer out from the among the pews to listen to her preach. 

'We are all about Jesus. But to have humor and lightness and irreverence is our version of piety,' 
she told Spirituality and Health. 

Nadia Bolz-Weber was once a drug and alcohol addict but turned to the church and hasn't looked back

The married mother-of-two has now written a spiritual memoir about her journey called Pastrix: The Cranky Faith of a Sinner and Saint. 

The book is near the top of the New York Times bestseller list after it was released in September. 

And she doesn't hold back. 

From a teenage rebellion against her fundamentalist Christianity, drug and alcohol addiction and doing stand-up in a comedy club in Denver, she describes herself as one of society's outsiders.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2487631/Tattooed-female-weightlifter-Nadia-Bolz-Weber-hit-Lutheran-minister.html#ixzz2jnOyuUS4
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