How To Lose By Quitting

Never quit. Never surrender.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "ELCA's Warning to WELS - Do Not Wait 20 Years":

“One letter can have an enormous impact. It forces people to act.”

I beg to differ. The leadership is so used to doing nothing or whatever they want, and getting by with it, that they will do absolutely nothing. The leadership is most likely to turn on the writers to intimidate them or get them removed.

Basically, they are all as useless as DP Deadwood.

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GJ - Aha. Begin by not trying because it will bring on the cross. If you want to remove the cross, bub, you have already removed the Gospel. The two cannot be separated.

KJV Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

The comment above is actually the mirror of the Church Growth mantra. Lay down the cross and do only what the Old Adam wants.

Here is where the Boomers especially are sissy whiners. They do not want to pay the price for the Word. And it is not going to be to the point of shedding their blood, which we should all be happy to do for the Gospel.

Someone can be removed from the synod or the congregation, or pushed out by a campaign of hatred and vilification. Does that keep us from faith? Not at all. In fact, a pastor pushed out can simply begin a new congregation with the Word. Starting with nothing is not easy, but the challenge can be fun and life-giving to many.

Members are finding it difficult to attend a faithful Lutheran church, but that situation has been created by decades of indolence, sloth, and avoiding the cross.

Let's say DP Engelbrecht and the others do not answer the letter. Send another letter, certified, to all parties asking for an explanation. That will have an effect. And have others write letters and phone. The Chicaneries are actively blocking any action. They are organized to get their way. They put another Fuller graduate in the second highest office in WELS - voted in, by the way, just as Wayne Mueller was.

I learned to protect the health and well-being of my daughters, because they were disabled. I  put the spotlight on what was happening. My wife and I went to the Columbus newspaper. We went to the governor's office. We wrote letters and backed them up with visits to an attorney. We wrote more letters. We spoke to hospital boards and doctors. We confronted incompetent nurses. One time the hospital tried to give my wife a hard time about Erin's care. She phoned and I gave her one question to ask - "Do you want to deal with me or my husband?" That had an amazing, calming effect on the staff.

I knew when I wrote the first article on Church Growth in Christian News that the synod would retaliate. I got about 100 positive letters from that one little article, a bad sign for me. That was in 1988 probably. The Shrinkers have been viciously striking back ever since, but they have only hurt themselves. I get ugly anonymous comments every day--very encouraging--and read three blogs where Shrinkers display their ignorance, malice, and bovine humor.

Everyone holding back is simply storing up more wrath to fall upon the Lutheran Church. ELCA has seen it happen, almost overnight. The pot is ready to boil over in WELS, too.

In spite of what Bruce Becker teaches, with impunity, there are no barriers to the Word of God.

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rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "How To Lose By Quitting":

We should be encouraged by the Word of God which assures us that hardship and adversity purifies us. When we look at how Luther handled the cross, we should also be encouraged. Luther took advantage of an exile at the Wartburg to translate the Bible into German.
Bearing the cross is difficult, as our Old Adam will always make war against it. God's Word assures us that he is always with us. He will not forsake us.

When you have children with special needs, disabilities, or are terminally ill, the burden often can be very devastating. We would eventually fall apart if we relied upon our own strength.

I am in awe by the manner in which the Sovereign Lord eventually reveals the demise of false teachers. They revel in their Theology of Glory, their own efforts, their buildings, and their handling of those who would dare to expose them for what they are.

There once was a time in the WELS when false doctrine was opposed from the pulpits. The paradigm shift has been incremental, but noticeable. When laity would inquire of a pastor about some false doctrine, he would be quick to point out the error in the doctrine. The approach taken now is to glean some kernel of truth from the error.

I have had no problem keeping my distance from laity who are being flayed to the bone by false teachers. As a result of doctrinal indifference, many cannot comprehend the magnitude of the problem. I have gone to great lengths to explain to many members what the visible effects of false doctrine within their midst has produced. I have received little opposition.

It appears that false doctrine, and its implementation has produced docility within much of the laity. They no longer see themselves as part of the Church Militant. They cannot comprehend the fact that false teachers are in their own midst. From their point of view, the only threats are those outside of the church walls.

Fools Smarter Than Christ

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Slinging Mud Anonymously":

“I'm ashamed that what should be a proper stand against false teachers in our synod has turned into a witch hunt that's dragging even good solid pastors through the mud.”

I am not ashamed. What I am ashamed of are the fools who deemed themselves smarter than Christ and refused to keep a careful watch on things.

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GJ - When a Lutheran pastor worships with Babtists, he despises the Word of God, which plants faith in the hearts of babies. He rejects the words of Christ, who taught us to believe as a child. Andy Stanley does not believe that babies have faith - he does not trust the Savior of the world.

When a Lutheran pastor is ashamed to provide regular services of Holy Communion, because it will interrupt the entertainment and be a barrier to unchurched Harry, he is mocking the Scriptures, which teach us - Do this in remembrance of Me.

When a Lutheran pastor asks for training from Schwaermer, he is saying, "I believe in the Real Presence, but that is not divisive when I can learn so much about how to do church."

When a Lutheran pastor thinks he has to make the Word of God attractive, reasonable, or appealing, he is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, Who works only through the Word and never apart from the Word.

The WELS Chicaneries and their counterparts in the ELS, Missouri, ELCA, and the CLC (sic) are worse than the Sodomites who only destroyed themselves. They are soul-murderers, slandering the Scriptures by substituting their spittle for the Word of God.

Let Me Tell You About Who Creates the Atheists

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Slinging Mud Anonymously":

Looking around where do you find the paragons of virtue in religion. No wonder people are falling away as prophesized in the bible. What the bible left out is that so many lying, vile, dishonest, phony, insincere, vindictive, nasty pastors would disillusion members and give them untold reasons to leave.

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GJ - I used to joke that certain people turned pastors into atheists. I thought about the WELS pastors I knew who were now avowed atheists, plus one who probably is. All three were Shrinkers.

What did they have in common?

Everyone protected them, helped them, and gave them special advantages no one else had - especially when they messed up.

They were coddled, and that was bad for them. Nothing hardens the heart more than pronouncing absolution on someone who has no contrition and continues in his sin. Not only did other pastors lie and cover up for them, they did so knowingly.

God punished them for their false doctrine and notorious sin by letting them be coddled into atheism. Now they have the torture of knowing about God but rejecting Him. Two are advocates of atheism, pitiful examples of male leadership.

I know there are plenty of evil pastors. I have known more than my share of them. There were plenty of belly-servers during the Reformation, too.

KJV Psalm 118:9 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

We are warned many times in the Scriptures not to believe because of man, but to trust in the infallible and unchanging Word. No man's evil is enough to separate us from the love of God in Christ. No one is good enough or kind enough to convert us - only the Word can do that. I do think a special curse will be on those pastors who abused their office and exploited their members. They may be CG gurus now, but they will pay the price for their concupiscence.

KJV 1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Slick Brenner used to say that WELS was headed for the day of judgment. Now the very things no one imagined have taken place. The same is true of Missouri and ELCA.

The Reformed Take on the Emerging Church

Here is the link.

Slinging Mud Anonymously

Notice "Dr." Steve Witte and in other places "Dr." Larry Olson.
Witte went to Gordon Conwell for a DMin. He was a Chicanery founder.
Olson went to Fuller for a DMin.
Chicaneries advocate false doctrine.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "New NPH Stuff from Church and Changer Mark Paustia...":

As a WELS pastor, I have heard Professor Paustian speak and present papers and answer questions on a couple of occasions. I have heard him preach several times. I have read his books.

Believe me, I absolutely detest Church and Change and what they have done to my synod. But Mark Paustian is of a completely "different spirit" than the Church and Change scoundrels. He is a solidly Lutheran and Confessional pastor.

I'm ashamed that what should be a proper stand against false teachers in our synod has turned into a witch hunt that's dragging even good solid pastors through the mud.

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GJ - Some readers are looking for a little more courage and clarity in the statements of the WELS leaders. If Martin Luther College's staff is so confessional, why are they are not running screaming out the doors when there is another Chicanery conference there, in the name of evangelism or missions?

I respect Paustian for replying and Mike Shottey for his response. It is a bit amusing to having someone yell "witch hunt" anonymousely. Show some fortitude. Are you a man or a mouse?

I will look up the anti-Ichabod blogs (three and counting) to see if there is a parallel comment about "dragging even good solide pastors through the mud." I doubt it.

This strikes me as another GA post, with someone pretending to detest the Chicaneries while being anti-anti-Church Growth.

I remember Joel Gerlach pulling that with a letter to Otten. He knew that WELS had problems, a list "as long as my arm," but Otten was violating the Eighth Commandment by publishing my articles. Gerlach also said he went to Fuller Seminary. He was glad he saw their false doctrine, but he was also the guy who promoted "making disciples" and "disciples making disciples making disciples making disciples."

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Slinging Mud Anonymously":

The anti-anti-CG comment "dragging even good solid pastors through the mud" reminds me of a comment by Ann Coulter. She said that you can tell what the liberals are up to by what they accuse conservatives of.

Anti-anti-CG could be abbreviated anti2-CG for anti- squared.


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GJ - True enough. The WELS CG defense is - "I am terribly hurt by all your hateful, snide, caustic, legalistic, slander. I do not know why you get such pleasure out of tearing people down and dragging them through the mud. It makes me terribly sad."

They are shocked and saddened by an open debate on doctrine, but they are not shocked and saddened by their professors attending Fuller Seminary, or the seminary president going to Fuller and lying about it. Or their Asia Board guy graduating from Gordon Conwell. Or Parlow with his Denver DMin. Or Kelm with his St. Louis DMin. Or Rich Krause's union DMin. Not one of them can manage a real academic master's degree, but they all want to be known as "Dr"!

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Slinging Mud Anonymously":

Do you think it's possible that people post anonymously because on several occasions you've googled people's names to find a creative way to slander them rather than responding to what they said in their post, GJ? Don't mistake someone protecting his reputation for cowardice.


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GJ - There is another anonymous accusation, without any factual support - typical of the Chicaneries. I know many laity and pastors who do not share their names because of the vile, dishonest behavior of the Shrinker crowd. They go after faithful laity, too. No one is allowed to dissent from their Reformed doctrine, their unionism, their apostasy.

I hear from people all the time. They are the source of my material. I quote it extensively and the Chicaneries sob like addicts who dropped their last packet down the grating.

Several people do use their real names, whether they agree with me or not. I respect that. There should be more open debate. But I am happy to keep it anonymous if people will discuss doctrine rather than what they imagine is wrong with me. That topic has been explored at length.

I know all about Chicanery concern for reputations - theirs. They tell each other's lies. The funniest is the Fuller alumni group telling everyone else who did NOT go to Fuller - and they know otherwise. Every Chicanery is a "Confessional Lutheran" and "sound, orthodox." Why have they devoted an organization to destroying Lutheran doctrine and practice? And they did it by skimming offering money from WELS - pretty low, even for Chicaneries.

A confessional Lutheran seminary president would not devote his entire career to the Church Growth Movement. Nor would he lie about going to Fuller Seminary. 

For amusement I look up the anonymous websites trying to cope with the influence of my little effort. As Bugs Bunny says, "It is to laugh." Too bad they cannot put their names on their work. Perhaps they are concerned that people would be revolted by their behavior.

ELCA's Warning to WELS - Do Not Wait 20 Years

Staff Ministry, Unionism, Enthusiasm, Party in the Fire Island Pines

An ELCA theologian, who was around 20+ years ago:

David Yeago: In the Aftermath

IN THE AFTERMATH

Reflections Following the 2009 ELCA Churchwide Assembly

HOW DO WE LIVE NOW?

I’m writing for those who share with me the conviction that the actions taken by the Assembly on human sexuality constitute a theological, ethical, ecclesiological, and ecumenical disaster of immense proportions. I’m not going to make the case for viewing those actions in that way; that has been done repeatedly and very capably by others in the debates that preceded the Assembly. I am writing for those who are already convinced, whom I will call traditionalists.

Michael Root is not exactly Mr. Orthodox Lutheran.

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GJ - In 1987, when ELCA was formally merged, the pattern was already set. Everyone knew how radical, anti-Confessional, and gay ELCA would be. Quotas were mandated, and they always favor the extreme fringe of the Left.

Hardly anyone said anything. Many clergy were lobbying for positions. As I recall, Root was finishing or finished with a PhD at Yale. Many other names are familiar as I read the protests. Bishop Kenneth Sauer was promoting the merger too.

They all waited 22 years to proclaim a disaster, when they voted for the original blueprint and funded the monster. Lawyers conducted the merger meetings. And the sheep went to the slaughter.

Now WELS members and clergy want someone to fix 32 years of entrenched Enthusiasm, which goes by the name of Evangelism, Missions, Church Growth, Church and Change. The SP cannot do it alone.

Here is a simple formula to get things changed for the better:

• Write a letter documenting errors in doctrine and practice.
• Be precise and factual, using dates and documents whenever possible.
• Edit the letter to emphasize the issue itself.
• Send the letter to the Circuit Pastor, District President, Synod President, and the ELS Synod President.
• Copies may also be sent to the doctrinal board or other concerned people.

 One letter can have an enormous impact. It forces people to act. If nothing is done, a follow-up letter is in order, asking, "What precisely is being done?"

In 1992, Valleskey endorsed Church Growth unionism six ways from Sunday, and WELS was silent, except to promote him to Sausage Factory President. The few who objected were forced out, and their friends went silent.

Larry Olson (DMin, Fuller), the Harmless Heretic, was put in charge of Staff Ministers at Martin Luther College. So what could go wrong there?

Brug endorsed women pastors in 1994 or so, and no one said anything. Not long ago, WELS women staff ministers were consecrating Holy Communion and distributing it to shut-ins, obviously with the approval of various leaders. The spineless doctrinal board imposed a "moratorium". A what? Meanwhile, the WELS Latte Church has a woman pastor "administering the Means of Grace," covertly now.

ELCA did the same thing. After years of covertly ordaining homosexuals, ELCA imposed some restrictions, which amounted to a modified limited moratorium. The Lavender Mafia worked together with the feminists and overturned that last little obstacle.

ELCA bishops, pastors, and members are fleeing the synod they created and allowed to fester for 22 years.

ELCA Synods (Districts) Merge While Dissolving from Fleeing Members

Meet your new bishop.

ALPB

The Pacifica Synod of Southeran California, which includes Orange County and San Diego, as well as parts of Imperial and Riverside County, has begun talking s with the Southwest California Synod, which is metro LA and suburbs, about possibly merging the two synods.

As I reported before, giving is down 40% in Pacifica, and every congregation above 300 in average weekly attendance is either leaving the ELCA or redirected (sic) giving, save one congregation, one in Yorba Linda where the Bishop is a member.

I wouldn't put this out on a forum if I was not sure of the sources, which are several, including several at high levels.

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GJ - Look at this link, but be warned first. The HerChurch site is beyond belief.

Concordia Ft. Wayne Church Growth and WELS TELL: Same Year, 1977

Old Lutheran, covert agent.

"In an initial burst of enthusiasm reflecting Preus's concern for missions, the Fort Wayne faculty had petitioned the 1977 convention of the Missouri Synod to have each of its subdivisions or districts "make a thorough study of the Church Growth materials." What is more, the districts were to be urged to "organize, equip, and place into action all of the Church Growth principles as needed in the evangelization of our nation and the world under the norms of the Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions." By the time of the 1986 synodical convention, however, the same faculty, while appreciating the "valuable lessons of common sense" to be learned from Church Growth, asked that "the Synod warn against the Arminian and charismatic nature of the church-growth movement."
Kurt E. Marquart, "Robert D. Preus," Handbook of Evangelical Theologians, ed., Walter A. Elwell, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1995, pp. 353-65. Reprinted in CN, 6-26-95, p. 21.

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GJ - The WELS Church Growth publication began in 1977, the same year the Concordia Seminary, Ft. Wayne faculty urged CG principles upon the LCMS. The Shrinkers were working across synod lines from the beginning - and still are.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Concordia Ft. Wayne Church Growth and WELS TELL: S...":

That's about the time when each WELS sermons because not just law/gospel, but law/gospel/evangelism, or more like law/evangelism. I noticed the switch right away. Needless to say, our pastor was fast tracked to go from the parish to a synodical school. Now I know why.

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GJ - When Gurgle was still Synodical President, before he went on the lam, his editorials in each issue of FIC were about the need for each member to recruit more members. They struck me as entirely Reformed, all Law, and really tedious. Perhaps he had some good editorials. I missed them if he did.

"And I'm Free...Free-Falling"

Free Falling

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Time To Tell the Truth at St. Peter, Freedom, Wisc...":

St. Peter FREEDOM, WI.

Free to do whatever you like. Living up to the name of the town I guess.

Free to do whatever. Maybe they should rename it to St. Peter Antinomian, WI. 

Elvis Presley Is 75 Today

Born January 8, 1935,

Special Narcotics Agent Elvis posed with President Nixon.
Vivit.

New NPH Stuff from Church and Changer Mark Paustian

This is Mark Paustian, currently teaching up at MLC. I applied to join the Church & Change forum merely because I learned that some materials I had put out many years ago, a long list of sermons series I had preached as an outreach exploratory missionary, were posted somewhere on the website.
(That's a whole 'nother story; in my freedom, I've changed my views on sermon series and am no longer completely comfortable being seen as an advocate of that homiletical method. I digress.)

Anyway, I confess to being one who has watched "Church & Change" with a little skepticism and concern. There's no need to react to that statement, since I'll admit it's largely based on perception. In fact, I teach communications at MLC (also Hebrew) and I both know the destructive power of
perception and am an energetic proponent of ethical dialogue. So, I say from the heart, more power to you!


My whole point is that, from what I've learned so far about Leonard Sweet, the people involved in "church and change" may be shooting themselves in the foot, unnecessarily polarizing the people of the WELS. That would sadden me. I can only think there are many, many people who are like me, hoping to hear good things come out of "church and change" to dispel our skepticism, chiefly by providing new models of energetic Lutheranism that manage to penetrate this pathetically lost culture. I was in church planting and home mission work for over 12 years, and I do understand the pain and passion
that clearly makes the people in "church and change," and all of you, tick.

I fear Leonard Sweet will become the issue. To put it crassly, he's a PR nightmare:-)

[GJ - And not a doctrinal nightmare? How Church and Changish to say that.]

He threatens to be the thing people will point to as telling evidence of what "church and change" is all about, how well rooted and grounded this rising organization is in appropriate theological exploration and expression, even how Lutheran you really want to be. And I'm afraid people will falsely read the minds and hearts of the organizers, as if they only turn to a man of Sweet's theology after concluding the answers they need most are not contained in their own,as if mining the depths of God's heart in his Word has plainly not worked.so we turn with eager ears to a brilliant unregenerate mind. I'm not saying that's a fair assessment. I'm positive it's NOT a fair assessment. And I'm not saying Sweet's talk won't be fascinating, or even helpful to gospel ministry in some way the speaker himself doesn't have the heart to intend. (At the same time, if you've ever been broken, truly broken, the only indispensable word was absolution.and to listen too long to a speaker who doesn't know of such things finally does little but break your heart. I know how pious and simplistic that sounds.) Anyway, what I am saying is that Sweet will polarize, damage the credibility of your movement and create needless controversy. I have a hard time believing this speaker is worth it, from what little I know about him. I could be wrong. Someone in our camp is obviously impressed with him for reasons I'm just not privy to. That's an honest confession of ignorance, not a thinly veiled jab.

So much of your dialogue in this chat room heartens me and causes me to reconsider my poorly substantiated concerns about "church and change." In the deepest place, we are the same in Christ, and we all want essentially the same thing for our dear, dear WELS, though our visions may differ greatly. Having Sweet as a keynote speaker (please tell me I'm wrong about that) tugs hard in the opposite direction. (By the way, I was captivated and edified by a speech by Edward Veiths, author of "Loving God With All Your Mind" at a WELS college symposium not too long ago. He's not WELS, but he is a brilliant, regenerate, theologically conservative, Christ-centered thinker who has much to say about communicating Christ even in a secular postmodern academic setting. I'd endorse him for a setting like the one we have in mind in a heartbeat. I'm not framing this in terms of fellowship.)

Now, what if we were looking for a keynote speaker and asked, "Who in our midst do we think has the very strongest grasp of the intended meaning of God's own Word to the WELS by virtue of their scholarship in the original languages of Scripture?" What if we said, "Isn't that who we want to set the tone for our event.someone who can speak to us from the very heart and mind of God!?" And what if we let come to mind the names of, for example, my colleagues at MLC, scholars like Joel Frederick (Greek) and Tom Nass (Hebrew).now that would be change.

Sorry this was so long. If it turns out I've only managed to offend, this will be the last you'll ever hear from me, I promise.

Mark Paustian

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For what it's worth,
Vicar John Stelljes [Pilgrimage to Exponential and Brother Stetzer]


The theme of this year's Church and Change conference is "Changeless Gospel, Changing World". It's being held Wed - Fri, Nov. 9 - 11 in Madison, WI. Sixteen workshops will offer insights on WELS innovative ministries that are proclaiming the changeless Gospel in a changing world...from Professor Mark Paustian's narrative witnessing to Pastor Jeff Gunn's very blessed mission start to Campus Pastor Tom Trapp's interview with atheists and agnostics and much, much more! Dr. Leonard Sweet, an outstanding presenter, will speak on our changing culture. This will give us information which will help us design Gospel ministries to reach our changing world. Phil Boileau is composing an original theme song for the conference. In addition, we plan to have a room full of vendors and sources of materials we hope you will find useful in your ministry. On top of that, we plan to have two evenings of Christian entertainment by WELS artists, including comedy. There will be a lot of Christian music throughout. Here is the next workshop and presenter:

God's goal for me is maturity - "attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:13) presented by Pastor Randy Hunter. The gospel builds maturity; love demonstrates maturity. Jesus gave us a new commandment: love one another. Love demonstrates discipleship and maturity. But what happens when people of the Christian community don't even know each other much less those outside the church? Loving one another, demonstrating maturity, gets harder. This workshop will lead participants to better understand maturity, identify obstacles to Jesus' new command, determine causes of the obstacles in your church and your life, and search for solutions.


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Prepared to Answer:
Telling the Greatest Story Ever Told

by Mark A. Paustian

Are you afraid to be asked about your Christian beliefs because you don't feel prepared? This set consists of Prepared to Answer (221 pages, 12N2021) and More Prepared to Answer (254 pages, 12N2022). These two books provide a helpful model for sharing the Christian faith by supplying Scripture-based responses to common objections to Christianity. Author Mark Paustian provides a unique approach to answer the questions people have. Since every situation suggests a story, he uses divinely inspired narratives (well-loved gospel stories) to "plant a seed." The power in the words and deeds of Christ show us the evil in ourselves, smash our complacency, and reveal our desperate need for his grace.

Some topics in these books include abortion, why bad things happen, Jesus as myth, feminism, and religion as viewed by science. You can order these books separately or as a set. For specific information about each book, see the product descriptions for the individual titles. Paper cover.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "New NPH Stuff from Church and Changer Mark Paustia...":

I would assume that you have never heard Mark Paustian speak in person, or bothered to read either of the "Prepared to Answer" books. If you had, you would know far better than your accusations reveal.

Mark Paustian is not challenging the efficacy of the Word. He is not suggesting that the Word and Sacraments are not the means of grace. He is suggesting that different people need a different approach ("different strokes for different folks", I believe the phrase goes).

Paustian's comments concerning Sweet are right on the money.

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GJ - I have to assume the words reprinted above were not read with discernment or comprehension. There is a cute little dance, both for and against Church and Change, coming from someone who spoke at their conference - a sure sign of approval.

His "right on the money" comments include:

And I'm not saying Sweet's talk won't be fascinating, or even helpful to gospel ministry in some way the speaker himself doesn't have the heart to intend.

How exactly would Sweet the Space Cadet, the New Ager, the Methodist Leftist fascinate and help any Lutheran?

GA works - say one thing and then the opposite. Let the audience pick a version to believe.

Dom Perignon has done the same thing with Church and Change. He has some issues with it, but he gave a Bible study of sorts there, and he attended the 2007 conference. When VP Patterson drops his plans to go hunting and flies up to Milwaukee for a Church and Change conference, his heart is with the Chicaneries.

Another factoid - Paustian started the church near Love's Park that made it pack up and move (or plan to). They out Church Growthed Larry Olson's CG congregation.

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raklatt has left a new comment on your post "New NPH Stuff from Church and Changer Mark Paustia...":

I have read Paustian’s "Prepared to Answer" and found he asks many more questions than he answers. The style of his book is like the style of his post, as though he is afraid to stir the pot as well as Luther did against Zwingli and Muenzer.

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GJ - KJV James 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

The strange thing is - WELS pastors think their anonymous snarkiness is convincing, when it is just the opposite.


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Someone very experienced in party politics and WELS politics made this comment:

For a professor teaching classes in "communications", Mark Paustian's convoluted litany re: Leonard Sweet and Church and Change, appears to be cognizant dissonance. But there's a name for it in political jargon. It's called "plausible deniability" for when the roof begins to cave in from dissent after the fact.



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GJ - Veterans call it GA training.



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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "New NPH Stuff from Church and Changer Mark Paustia...":

Notice how Prof Paustian is still so tactful with the CG crowd, careful not impugn their motives. However, when it comes to the anti-CG crowd, then he's free to impugn and malign. If he's not full-blown CG, that shows which way he leans.

Paustian also uses the Clinton defense when it comes to Rockford--denying the charges, nitpicking at the factual basis of the case, and impugning the integrity of the witnesses, saying he sinned and is in need of God's mercy. For instance, he says that the mileage between the churches is wrong. That old post he refers to can be found on Ichabod by searching on Mark Paustian. Related posts can be found searching on Larry Olson or "Larry Olsen's old church". A Google Maps search reveals that the distance between Loves Park and New Life is 5.7 miles, whereas the old post says it is 5 miles. That's pretty close, so half the case is holding up to scrutiny quite well.

The distance between New Life and the Belvidere church is 8.8 miles, not the 5 miles as stated in the old post. Whoever wrote that in to Dr. Jackson probably meant the west edge of Belvidere is 5 miles from New Life. What Paustian is not telling the reader is that the WELS church is on the extreme south side of Belvidere, and that involves stop-and-go city traffic for Belvidere residents, whereas getting to New Life involves mostly highway driving on Hwy 20. So the difference between driving to the Belvidere church and driving to New Life is only a matter of a few minutes for many Belvidere residents! That's not enough to discourage anyone from Belvidere with an itch for the CG style, or for a larger church, from attending New Life.

Since everything around Belvidere is mostly corn and soy fields, and most farms are corporate-owned so large farm families are increasingly rare, so the Belvidere church can only draw people from Belvidere itself. It must have EVERY WELS member in Belvidere join it just to stay afloat. Thus, to introduce this easy alternative church option for WELS members in Belvidere jeopardizes the Belvidere church, as well as being detrimental to the Loves Park WELS church. As proof, look at Hope's church sign on their web page. It reminds one of a tombstone!:

http://www.hopebelvidere.org./index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16&Itemid=19

One would think that if there were a territorial conflict with one WELS church, much less two, that would be enough to locate to the south of Rockford where the new church was envisioned to go in the first place! However, if the CG crowd envisioned creating a WELS fast-growing mega-church, like they envisioned but failed to create in Columbus, Ohio, then New Life would be located exactly where it is today, overlapping the areas staked out previously by other WELS churches.

Then Prof Paulstian stakes his case on his reputation and the motives in his heart. However, only God can see into his heart, but we can only look at the deeds and recorded statements. Here is the evidence we can see:

1) He tries to distance himself from the CG crowd, but the fact is the church he left behind in Rockford is decidedly CG, and probably was when he was there. Just look at their websty.

2) No one can find an impolite word written by Paustian about the CG crowd, but only incrimination toward the anti-CG crowd.

3) He admits that he set up New Life in conjunction with the pastor at the too nearby Loves Park church, judiciously not giving his name! Why's that? I'm sure that at the time that pastor was none other than Rev. Larry Olson, who received a D.Min at Fuller Seminary, and is a big WELS CG guru.

4) Then Rev Larry Olson received a call to be the Waldo Werning Professor of Church Growth at Martin Luther College. Sometime later Rev. Paustian followed him to MLC and received a professorship in communications, which class is probably geared toward giving the students the tools they need to run CG-style churches.

5) Etc. (search Ichabod for more).


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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "New NPH Stuff from Church and Changer Mark Paustia...":

The real reason Paustian wants to make clear that this was the last time he'd read this blog is not for the sake of Ichabod readers, but because in the CG circles he wants to hang around with, or rub elbows with, reading Christian News and the Ichablog is a BIG taboo--even to respond to critics. Paustian wrote:
"Was I clear enough that I resolve never to access this blog again?"

***

GJ - He solicited Facebook connections, so I friended him. Mark sent a couple of dancing-around semi-hostile emails, and UNFRIENDED me a few minutes later.

The Only WELS Commandment

 

Questions? Read the entire WELS catechism, above.

Willow Creek-Presbyterian Bible Study at St. Peter, Freedom (WELS)

John Ortberg, Willow Creek, Presbyterian

Neighboring St. Mark, Depere (WELS)

was a member of the Willow Creek Association,

but no more - Ichabod effect?

Rap fans - ask someone in detox to help you click on the link.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Freedom from St. Peter, Freedom":

http://www.stpetercares.com/home/2440/2440/docs/Church%20Newsletter%20-%20December%202009.doc?sec_id=2440



St. Peter WELS, Church and School, Freedom, Wisconsin
December, 2009 Newsletter, page 2:

BIBLE CLASSES –
The following Bible classes are being held in various places and are open to anyone that would like to attend. Please call the person listed by the study with any questions.

“If You Want to Walk on Water, You’ve Got to Get Out of the Boat” Bible Study held every other Tuesday

http://www.johnortberg.com/bio.php

At a Glance:

John Ortberg, is passionate about "spiritual formation," which is how people become more like Jesus. His teaching brings Scripture alive and invariably includes practical applications and warm humor. John is the author of many books, including "If You Want to Walk on Water, You've Got to Get Out of the Boat" and "The Life You've Always Wanted: Spiritual Growth for Ordinary People", and his latest book, "Faith & Doubt". He has also contributed to many other books and periodicals.

Present:

•Pastor, Menlo Park Presbyterian Church Menlo Park, California, 2003 to present

Previous:

•Teaching Pastor, Willow Creek Community Church, South Barrington, Illinois, 1994-2003
•Senior Pastor, Horizons Community Church, Diamond Bar, California, 1990-1994
•Senior Pastor, Simi Valley Community Church, Simi Valley, California, 1985-1990

Ordained:
•Baptist General Conference, 1986
Education:
•BS, Wheaton College in Psychology
•Master of Divinity and Doctor of Philosophy in Clinical Psychology from Fuller Seminary
•Post graduate studies at the University of Aberdeen, Scotland.
•John has served as an adjunct faculty member in homiletics at Fuller where he is also a member of the Board of Trustees.

Personal:

John was born in Rockford, Illinois. His wife Nancy is also a seminary graduate and also served as a teaching pastor at Willow Creek Community Church. They have been married for over 20 years and have enjoyed watching their own family grow. They are parents of three children, Laura, Mallory and Johnny. They also have a dog and a cat, though they are ambivalent about the cat.

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John Ortberg
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

John Ortberg, Jr. (born May 5, 1957, Rockford, Illinois) is an evangelical Christian author, speaker, and senior pastor of Menlo Park Presbyterian Church^[1] in Menlo Park, California, an evangelical church with over 4,000 members. Ortberg has published many books including the 2008 ECPA Christian Book Award winner When the Game is Over, It All Goes Back in the Box,^[2] and the 2002 Christianity Today Book Award winner If You Want to Walk on Water, You've Got to Get Out of the Boat.^[3] Another of his publications, The Life You've Always Wanted, has sold more than 500,000 copies as of 2008.^[4]

Background

Ortberg earned his undergraduate degree from Wheaton College, and his M.Div. and Ph.D. in clinical psychology from Fuller Theological Seminary. He has also studied at the University of Aberdeen, Scotland. From 1985 to 1990 he served as senior pastor at Simi Valley Community Church, and then from 1990 to 1994 at Horizons Community Church. He then moved from California to Illinois to serve as a teaching pastor at Willow Creek Community Church until 2003, when he assumed his current role at Menlo Park Presbyterian Church.^[5]

Teachings

A central theme of his teaching and books is spiritual formation, the transforming of human character through authentic experiences with God. Ortberg argues that the desire for comfort and security often stands in the way of an authentic relationship with God — when people place too high a value on being secure and comfortable they may be reluctant to make the sacrifices God asks of them.^[6]
Ortberg has warned against the societal pressures which tell people that bigger is always better, saying "I think for all of us, whatever your ministry or job, bigness will never satisfy the call."^[7] In his books he has described his own desire for importance and success, and how achieving them did not ultimately bring him happines.^[8] "Your cravings," according to Orberg, "if you could get to the bottom of them, are for the eternal."^[9]

Speaking

Ortberg has been a featured speaker at many events, including

• Promise Keepers 2006 Conferences^[10]
• Westmont College (2007 commencement speaker)^[11]
• 2008 Global Leadership Summit^[12]

Bibliography

• Grace: An Invitation to a Way of Life. (Zondervan, September 2000) (with Laurie Pederson and Judson Poling) ISBN 9780310220749
• If You Want To Walk on Water, You've Got to Get Out of the Boat. Zondervan, 2001 ISBN 9780310228639
• Love Beyond Reason. Zondervan, 2001 ISBN 9780310234494
• The Life You've Always Wanted. Zondervan, 2002 ISBN 9780310246954
• Everybody's Normal Till You Get To Know Them. Zondervan, 2003 ISBN 9780310228646
• Living the God Life: Finding God's Extraordinary Love in Your Ordinary Life. Inspirio, 2004, ISBN 9780310801955
• God Is Closer Than You Think: If God is Always with Us, why is He So Hard to Find? Zondervan, 2005 ISBN 9780310253495
• Now What? God's Guide to Life for Graduates: God's Guide to Life for Graduates. Zondervan, 2005 ISBN 9780310802822
• When the Game Is Over, It All Goes Back in the Box. Zondervan, 2007 ISBN 9780310253501

See also

• Menlo Park Presbyterian Church
• Willow Creek Community Church

References

1. ^ "Pastors and Ministers". Menlo Park Presbyterian Church. http://www.mppc.org/about-mppc/leadership-team. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
2. ^ "2008 Christian Book Awards Winners - Christian Life category". http://www.ecpa.org/christianbookawards/cba2008.php. Retrieved 2009-10-20. 
3. ^ "The Dick Staub Interview: John Ortberg's Freak Show". Christianity Today. May 1, 2003. http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/mayweb-only/21.0b.html?start=1. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
4. ^ "Gold / Platinum / Diamond Book Awards Winners". http://www.ecpa.org/gold_past.php. Retrieved 2009-10-20. 
5. ^ "JohnOrtberg.com: John's Bio". http://www.johnortberg.com/bio.php. Retrieved 2009-10-20. 
6. ^ Duduit, Michael. "Preaching Through Their Defenses: An Interview with John Ortberg". Preaching. http://www.preaching.com/resources/features/11581043/page4/ortberg/. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
7. ^ "Good Drive, Bad Drive". Ministry Mentor. November, 2005. http://www.ministrymentor.com/archives/details.asp?issue=11/1/2005. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
8. ^ Creel, Colin (2005). Perspectives: A Spiritual Life Guide for Twentysomethings. Relevant Media Group. pp. 137–138. ISBN 9780976035787. 
9. ^ Trueheart, Charles (August, 1996). "Welcome to the Next Church". The Atlantic: pp. 37–58. http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/96aug/nxtchrch/nxtchrch.htm. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
10. ^ Lee, Courtney (March 8, 2006). "Promise Keepers Announces Keynote Speaker for 2006 Conferences". Christian Today. http://www.christiantoday.com/article/promise.keepers.announces.keynote.speaker.for.2006.conferences./5586.htm. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
11. ^ Doane, Guillaume (May 3, 2007). "Westmont Graduation to Honor Students, Mark Departure of Outgoing President". Montecito Journal. http://www.montecitojournal.net/archive/13/18/991/. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 
12. ^ "GLS Speakers". The Global Leadership Summit India. http://www.glsindia.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=37. Retrieved January 9, 2009. 

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+Diet O. Worms has left a new comment on your post "Willow Creek-Presbyterian Bible Study at St. Peter...":

Congratulations to the Freedom From St. Peter congregation. They must have already successfully and throughly discipled [ahem] all their members and neighbors using all the books of the Bible, the Confessions, and the good commentaries, and so now they have no choice but to use this garbage.

Who pays the DPs?

***

GJ - WELS members pay the DPs through various synod subsidies. Those trips to Milwaukee and Willow Creek are not free.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Willow Creek-Presbyterian Bible Study at St. Peter...":

Your wrong about church discipline not being applied at St. Peter's and the CORE. All members who complained about the pastors were disciplined, and when applicable, bounced out of church, plus CORE--not sure you can call CORE a church.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Willow Creek-Presbyterian Bible Study at St. Peter...":

Which of the seven churches of Revelation does CORE remind you of most? I think Pergamum, or maybe
Thyatira:

Pergamum
Rev 02:14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality.

Thyatira
Rev 02:20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.

ELCA Bishop Explains Why They Are the Best, Most Loving, Most Compassionate

He says the Eighth Commandment has been broken in defense of another commandment. But ELCA violates the First Table all the time.

Notice the manipulative use of photos to guilt people into giving money. ELCA's waste of money would shame Church and Change into doing more subversion and skimming. Really.

Estimate on ELCA Exits - From ALPB Forum

LCA Presiding Bishop Crumley posed with Mrs. Ichabod, many years ago.

ALPB

I would George, but it is plainly ugly, and bishop behavior is not always exemplary. So in our case, there is a delicate walk with, yet not influencing the walk. It is a decision the ELCA congregations have to make on their own. So I am not going to post names and such in a forum like this.

I will say that in the ministries I'm in, it is clear that on average with my samples there are about 3-4 congregations per synod, on the way out right away. There is probably on average 1 large congregation taking a "we are big enough to stay and create meaningful resistance." One note: these large congregations continue to have task forces evaluating an exit. Others are similarly engaged. I am not reporting their names beyond posting news articles or fait acompli, because they are already experiencing enough trial and anguish with the process without speculating here. So you have seen one report in California and one news report link in Colorado from me, no more.

So a, take it for what it is, estimate is 3.5 *65 = 230ish on the way out. 100 large churches readying for protest or exit. at least that many 230+100=330-500 engaged at the council level on assessing the question. Numbers of members? = 90,000 in small churches, 100,000 in large ones = 200,000 in a 1000 congregations with national presence. Some synods like NE Iowa and SC seem to be trying to make a inside protest response, with more or less Bishop support. (in three days many will meet with former Bishop Crumley for worship and conversation) I see at least 1000 separating in one way or another soon. Your mileage may vary, The question is not really on those numbers, but whether such an exodus will create a cascading implosion. If not, I'm sure ELCA will feel quite comfortable with 9000 congregations and 4 Million members, and a slow trickle of bleeding out. If there is an implosion, Lutheranism in America will be in a total restructure, and that would effect me, and probably is something I should know about, even if its "none of my business."

But we apparently won't hear about it officially until 2012? when the official publication gets printed? You know those AF presses still have to have the type set by hand. Grin. By then Missouri will have posted monthly data on the hundreds coming in and going out in her membership, some of those being ex-ELCA congregations that ELCA hasn't reported from their secret data yet Smiley Let's pray for some repentance, rethinking, and more order than that. The implosion is not the best scenario.

***

GJ - I read the necrology to my wife yesterday. We discussed the fact that she knows every single one of those theological leaders. We went to conferences together, with her costs paid by me.

I read these stats to her this morning, and she said, "Where were these people 22 years ago?"

I said, "Someone had to be first. Besides, if we had stayed for the benefits, everyone would be in rehab today. There is a price to be paid."

I wrote an entire book about this, which was published in a special edition of Christian News. The ELS, Missouri, and WELS were too busy snuggling with their new partner in ministry, ELCA, to rock the boat. Too much Thrivent money was going to joint religious projects. As one of the "conservative" WELS DPs explained, "We can't give up that money."

The homosexual vote at the last ELCA convention is the final, last straw for many congregations. The last straw was forcing Lutheran congregations to have an Episcopal bishop present for any confirmations to be valid. The cobbled-together merger was ready to come apart, then, when this latest vote passed to hurrah and rainbow-colored stoles. I hear the parade of activists was especially revolting to some.

If Missouri, WELS, and the ELS want to help, they can expel the Roman Catholic and Fuller influences among them and return to the Book of Concord. Many ELCA members are so poorly trained that they are more like newborn kittens, blind and helpless. The "conservative" Lutheran clergy will need to upgrade their training too, after 30 years of aping Fuller.
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Quote from: Chuck Sampson on Yesterday at 07:21:53 PM

... an article by one Leah Shaeffer which contended that the Virgin Mary was actually raped by a Roman soldier. When our Church Council wrote to Bp. Chilstrom asking him to disavow this blasphemy he wrote back to say "Charles, I cannot be the keeper of a thousand doors."

I think she's currently serving a congregation in Ohio if that helps affirm your decision. I remember her from when we were both in DC. Ironically, I think her doctorate was from Catholic U.

The CORE - Prisoner of Culture

Ski's Caption in Facebook - "The Knux and Me"

The Emerging Church leaders, who are just another version of Church Growth, teach that the church must use pop culture to reach people. Given that wrong assumption, anything goes.

Google "The Knux" for their lyrics, such as "Bang Bang."

Wikipedia on The Knux.

The Knux on My Space.

The Knux official website.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The CORE - Prisoner of Culture":

BANG BANG

When the gun goes bang bang bang, who's gonna know who's the one? No, nobody knows.
When the gun goes bang bang bang, who's gonna know who's the one? No, nobody knows.

Takin' it back to 94, when niggas was dealin' the finest soul,
Crack the hit then ****** it up, and baby gangstas was full of they cluck.
Pluck the feathers up off the duck, you stuck like chuck if carried the banter
Pistol player knuckled up, then better to telling the children to scatter
Everyone knows don't **** with them ho's drinking with keisha from out they yo
Full of that clearly pop a silly when niggas first heard the choppers city
And I was a dancin' b-boy who resorted to slinging them heat boys
And jackin' them cars, mackin' them broads, sadistic ****, then flipped the script.
I don't wan' sound like a hypocrite, but momma raised me for greatness,
but we broke as **** and hope is stuck and New Orleans defines the cage hits
The animal house like getting out like takin' food from a animals mouth,
roar roar like the dungeon dragon, takin' it back to the cannibals house

When the gun goes bang bang bang, who's gonna know who's the one? No, no nobody knows.
When the gun goes bang bang bang, who's gonna know who's the one? No, no nobody knows.

I'm from a place you couldn't imagine, beautiful women some Creole with ***
Them niggas are hazards, we bitchin' they crabbin', and changin lanes like benjamin massing
From 10 to 12 they thinkin' it's cool, something awful when they aint in the mood.
Don't get 'em bent, **** that innocence, cause in a sense they film as you.
Where they mommas at, where they mommas at? Nobody knows, nobody cares.
To claim your hard, come go through the ward,come **** with them,when nobody dares
Your job, yes, ya ho-jocker, put that pop on you like Redenbacher
The things they say, the slang they use, catching kung fu while they bangin' the tools.

When the gun goes bang bang bang, who's gonna know the one? No, nobody knows.
When the gun goes bang bang bang, who's gonna know the one? No, nobody knows.

Even when it's cold outside 'round here. It's a 100 degrees, I keep the heat around here.
It's when you least expect it, people creep up from the rear,
it's racking my brain cannot contain my fear.
'Cause even when it's cold outside 'round here. It's a 100 degrees, I keep the heat around here.
It's when you least expect it, people creep up from the rear,
it's racking my brain cannot contain my fear.

Approved by DP Doug Engelbrecht

***

GJ - I starred out the worst words but left in the n-words because that is what they want. Let me know if I missed anything. I went over the words six times. Doubtless a translation to English would reveal more foulness.

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "The CORE - Prisoner of Culture":

Ski is a disgrace. What is he trying to prove with these pics? That he knows "people"? That he is "cool"? I'm sorry but in my humble opinion Ski is just the village idiot. How or why would he be seen in photos with these people, let alone post them proudly? I highly doubt he took the time to share the Gospel with these folks before or after the photo shoot. I believe most people in seeing these photos would be appalled. So that being said, what can be done about it? Does he also post pictures of himself along with wife and family on his Facebook page? Have synod officials been alerted to this odd behavior of one of their own pastors?

***

GJ - I imagine most of the WELS officials are aware of Ski's Facebook albums. On his main page he has a photo with one of the rap groups. They are all the same to me, so I cannot remember which one it is. He does have some pictures of his wife and family. I know quite a few people on Facebook now. Their main page photos are always:
1. The individual, serious or humorous.
2. A family or a child's picture.
3. A family pet photo.

Posing with Katy Perry on the main page (WELS Pastor Tim Glende) is a exception. So is posing with celebrities du jour (WELS Pastor Ski).

Photo albums on Facebook illustrate what people want to feature. Ski's are almost all music or sports celebrities. He did the same with his Drive blog, which is still active. He posed with Andy Stanley, the Babtist leader of Drive 08.

The question is - who is in charge? The District President, Doug Engelbrecht, has been supporting this. The CORE got going and kept going with his approval.

John Parlow's congregation is no longer listed as a member of the Willow Creek denomination. A lot of Missouri and ELCA churches are. Trapp's Wisconsin Lutheran Chapel once was.

The bigger question is not what the official membership is (and WC does charge big bucks for that) but what the doctrine taught is.

The Anything Goes District of WELS is clearly in the unionistic, Willow Creek-Fuller camp. Fox Valley seems to be the worst area of WELS.

Lil Mike - Rapper WELS Shares with the Roman Catholic Church, Etc

About LIL MIKE | New Mixtape January 2010
Lil Mike was born in Texas, and raised in Clearwater, Florida for 18 years. He now lives in Wisconsin where he attends college. He is a 22 year old Christian rapper/minister who lives to share the Gospel through the use of Hip Hop. The Lord called him to this service in January 2009. Here is a little bit of his story:

"One evening, I was parked in a Walgreens parking lot, waiting for my friend to get off work, while listening to a secular rap CD. Lyrically, the artist used profanities and lies while promoting sex and violence. I knew I should not have been listening to it and, for some reason, I could not stop thinking about how many lives are influenced by this garbage. Sadly, there are many people who base their entire lives on the messages conveyed in secular hip hop. At the thought of this, I felt an overwhelming feeling of guilt come over me, but at the same time I felt very inspired. It was in that moment, the Lord pressed upon my heart to use rap music for His Glory. As of January 2009, I had never written anything lyrically, nor had i ever tried to rap. BUT I have always been a listener to rap music and I know how powerful of an influence hip hop can have. So I let the Lord lead me."

When Lil Mike was 14 years old, he was heavy into drugs and, one day, overdosed on pills and almost lost his life. After that experience, he quit all of the drugs he was doing. As a result, from age 14 to 20, he experienced severe anxiety and depression. He had panic attacks very bad for many years. All he could do was "cling to God, in hope, and pray every day that He would take this away". Lil Mike made a promise to the Lord that if He was to take this anxiety away from him, he would give Christ his life in its entirety. Miraculously, at age 20, the Lord completely took away all of his anxiety. When asked about the healing he experienced, Lil Mike said "It was nothing short of a miracle because my anxiety was crippling and affected every area of my life. So, here I am, living out my promise to the Lord - trying my best to glorify God with Holy Hip Hop."

Upcoming Shows ( view all )

Jan 10 2010 7:30P St. Pius X Confirmation Appleton, Wisconsin
Feb 3 2010 7:00P St. Pius X Youth Group Appleton, Wisconsin
Mar 27 2010 12:00P Wisconsin Catholic Youth Rally Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Dec 31 2010 12:00A Contact Lil Mike To Do A Show ANYWHERE, Wisconsin


http://www.myspace.com/lilmikegohard

Gotocore.com click downloads for the list of church bands.

Here's a YouTube clip of church rappers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O041fu6zYSw&feature=player_embedded#

WELS Pastors Glende and Ski Reach Out To Pop-Tarts Katy Perry and MariQueen

WELS Pastor Tim Glende posed with Katy Perry
and posted this photo on his main Facebook page.
His Facebook pages are now hidden - Ichabod effect.
The former Gospel singer is famous for singing
"Ur So Gay" and "I Kissed a Girl and I'm Glad." 

WELS Pastor Ski posed with MariQueen, who posed for Playboy.
He also posed with Katy Perry, above.
His photos are still wide open on Facebook.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Read a Typical Response to the Glende/Ski Pop-Tart...":

So let me get this straight....because these guys posed for pictures with celebrities that have done things that we may not agree with ( namely SIN...which we are ALL guilty of) that means that they are doing something wrong? How do we know that they weren't ministering to these people as they had the opportunity to meet with them? Did Jesus himself not minister to a prostitute? And what did the Pharisees say and assume about that?.....exactly the same things that all of you supposed Christian people are saying and assuming about these 2 men in the ministry. Instead of breaking the 8th commandment daily on this blog, why don't you go and talk to these guys and find out for yourself how doctrinely (sic) sound they are instead of buying in to a bunch of assumptions and rumors.

***

GJ - Does this remind anyone else of the posts defending the Martin Luther College gay video?

Most men post pictures of their wives, not pin-ups, on the main Facebook page. Glende cannot help it. He grew up in Columbus, in a non-WELS CG parish that listened in awe to Floyd Luther Stolzenburg, Shrinker Extraordinaire.

Pastors have contacted these apostates and talked to them, getting nowhere. Ski is proud of recycling Groeschel and enjoys the support of the Doctrinal Pussycat Engelbrecht. Some did the same with Paul Calvin Kelm, and they got nowhere, too.

Everyone knows that Ski gets his sense of self-esteem from his many celebrity photos. He uses them for pastoral counseling, in fact. "This is me and..." This is a new version of Carl Rogers' Client-Centered Counseling - Ski's Celebrity-Centered Counseling.

Some people, within and without WELS, think these tart poses are a disgrace to the public ministry. These women are not known for joining the Wisconsin Synod after hearing the Gospel. Instead, Glende and Ski are trying to bask in the scrofulous glow of the young ladies' fame. Katy Perry abandoned Gospel singing to garner fame in homosexual-themed songs. How inspirational, to cuddle with her on one's Facebook home page! Look at me - I met Katy Perry.

KJV 2 Corinthians 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:

KJV 1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Of course, drinking buddies are going to lob their Eighth Commandment stink bombs. That used to work, when people could not look up information for themselves. Face it, Shrinkers. I am not pushing information out to WELS - they are sending it through me. They find it on their own and want it shared - pronto.

Calling me names only riles the good citizens of WELS, Missouri, and the ELS. They say to themselves and me, "So this is what we have for spiritual leaders? Men who hide their names, warble "Slander!", and name-call with abandon?" Keep it up, O Shrinker clan. The names bounce off me, encourage me, and motivate the doctrinal opposition even more.


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rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastors Glende and Ski Reach Out To Pop-Tarts...":

Luther thanked God for his adversaries. He sharpened his knives on them. I guess that you could say that Shrinkers do serve a purpose - they are Doctrinal Whetstones.