Steadfast Enthusiasts Go Medieval on Lito Cruz, PhD: Rossow Beats Him Like a Rented Mule

Lito Cruz has won the Beaten Like a Rented Mule Award.
B. Teigen was a previous winner.

Lito Cruz, PhD:
Here is what Rossow said about me apparently because I questioned Prof. Gard and I checked his claims for falisfiability.

If your posts do not show up here anymore it is because I have finally grown tired of your sophomoric approach to these discussions.


I have let these discussions on SJ and OJ go only because the likes of Gilcrease (sic), A. Preus and Pierce have been giving us all a show of patience, love and most of all Scriptural and Confessional integrity.


I have learned something important from you and your other OJ deniers. As Kilcrease pointed out on the other string, the use of the terminiology (sic) of OJ and SJ are not necessary for salvation but the content and substance of the teaching are Scriptural and Orthodox. I never invested much time in the controversey (sic) years ago. What I have learned from you is that there is a subtle and important distinction between terms like “atonement” and “justification” but this distinction does not undo the basic truth that the sin of the world is accounted for in Jesus’ death on the cross. I thank you for pointing out that subtle distinction but your silly interrogation of Dr. Gard has crossed even the very liberal boundary that I keep for this site.

Pastor Tim Rossow

***

GJ - What a sour puss! Apart from the bad spelling and name-calling, Rossow shows an absurd grasp of reality, one that parallels the bizarro world of LaughQuest.

I doubt whether anyone could name a person more polite than Lito Cruz. I have been amazed that anyone would bother dealing so long with an UOJ shop like Steadfast (sic), where they keep a junkyard dog who moonlights at LaughQuest, carrying out the same duties. The UOJ Stormtroopers never mind that. But question one of their own, someone who might explode the Bob Preus OJ mythology? Where are my smelling salts!

I doubt whether Gard is being a cry-baby. At Notre Dame everyone was allowed to debate anyone else in the class about any particular topic. In my classes we had papal infallibility priests asking the others why they did not leave the Church of Rome, one charismatic Roman Catholic professor, and so forth. Since Gard went to Notre Dame, I doubt whether he is whining.

McCain shows his hand wherever he goes. Although he said in writing that he enjoyed my Photoshops, I doubt the claim. More importantly, he bristles at anyone stepping on their favorite dogma, which really allows anyone to do or say anything.

Sadly, the LCMS cannot deal with its own sordid past as the foundation for their problems today, doctrinal problems that spread into WELS, via the St. Louis trained men, like VD. The Missouri bullies lose by winning. More than one pastor and layman has read the posts and said, "So that's the way it is."

Luther, Melanchthon, Chemnitz, Andreae, Chytraeus, Gerhard, Leyser, and Robert Preus are now...
Objective Justification deniers!

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LPC has left a new comment on your post "Steadfast Enthusiasts Go Medieval on Lito Cruz, Ph...":

Correct Pr. Greg,

I doubt if Gard is complaining for he should be accustomed to this. He is a doctor, he should be at home with my stuff so I doubt if it Gard had something to do with this. To be questioned is just part of the day's work for a doctor.

Rossow stepping in shows he is afraid of something. He seems to be embarrassed by my question.


LPC


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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Steadfast Enthusiasts Go Medieval on Lito Cruz, Ph...":

"(UOJ) is Scriptural and Orthodox" - and yet the Lutheran Confessions are completely void of its teachings.

Luther must feel like a complete idiot right now, having forgot to make a full confession of the central article of Scripture.

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GJ - Brett, Luther would have, if he had known how mixed up we were going to be.

That is the Lutheran Deposit of Faith. It is handed down by an elite group, generation after generation, revealed to the masses only when necessary. That is why God sank one ship of the Saxon Society instead of Walther's, to reveal UOJ to the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of that teeming shore.

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Paul McCain cannot handle the truth:


Pr. Rossow thanks for stepping in and calling a halt to the commentary being offered here by Lito Cruz, I urge similar action be taken against any and all coming on here advocating for Greg Jackson’s errors. I believe that these errors are very much a public skandalon/offense to the Body of Christ and of particular danger to the laity who will only ultimately, potentially, end up being confused and left to doubt the orthodox doctrine their pastors and others have taught them.

I also do not believe it is fair for a seminarian to have to shoulder the burden of this public false teaching and responding to it.

I would therefore respectfully urge BJS to consider banning those who are here, very intentionally, to try to spread the false doctrine of Jackson, errors that are attacks on the very heart of the Gospel.

And as for Cruz’ gracious response to you, this is by no means the case. Somebody sent me the link to Jackson’s blog site where Jackson and Cruz excoriated you and the BJS site.

Cruz said this about you: “Rossow stepping in shows he is afraid of something. He seems to be embarrassed by my question.”

So, such is the deception of this group of errorists, and they crave attention.

***

GJ - Paul, just keep selling Justification and Rome - and let the readers understand. They do not need Holy Mama Synod telling them what to think. If you would just accept a call to a congregation you might find out what people outside the Thrivent-ELCA-executive office suites are thinking.

Not Falsifiable Claims about UOJ and Robert Preus

LPC has left a new comment on your post "Preus Clan Still Tries to Rescue Universal Absolut...":

Pr. Greg,

The Herr Prof. Gard's claim suffers a shipwreck in my of course opinion.

He stated:


To state it once again: Dr. Robert Preus never changed his doctrinal position on Objective Justification

Such a claim is not falsifiable. It is pretty serious in my business, i.e. your testimony sir can not be admitted as evidence.

Apparently LC-MS theologians do not care if what they claim meets the standards for evidence.

I should not be shocked but I am.

LPC

***

GJ - Here is the definition of falsifiable from WordWeb, a cool free program - "Capable of being tested (verified or falsified) by experiment or observation."

In other words, no one can prove or disprove this claim. But what are we missing or avoiding? Yes, the book itself. What does Justification and Rome teach? California pointed out that the value of printed books is - they last and cannot be changed in a twinkle the way a web page can.

For example, I looked up the link where the LCMS banned McCain's horribly edited Book of Concord. The page existed before,  because I linked it and copied much of it. But I got - Error 404. Page Not Found.
Like the Church and Change material in WELS, or Ski's blog about the Drive Babtist Worship Conference, all someone has to do is remove the link or change the URL.

But Justification and Rome sits near my desk, next to my pile of Walther and Stephan resources. I remember when STD was a divinity degree, not something on a bishop's health record.

The datum is the book, which they will not argue. If Rolf really did help edit the book, why not share the actual draft he inherited? Why not debate the book rather than his self-serving memory?

Pixelated Gospel Now Available from Blog List

Oddly, Robert Preus' grandson used this pixelated graphic of Robert Preus.

This is the original photo of Robert Preus, easily available on Google Images.

One reader wanted the link to the perfervid UOJ discussion on Steadfast Enthusiasts, so I added the Andrew Preus, Seminary Student blog link to the list on the left. I learned from a recent post that the Canadian seminary teaches rock-solid UOJ, eh? Color me surprised.

At least they are posting both sides of the issue there, as this blog does. The trouble is, Steadfast thinks that Stephan-Walther Halle Pietism is Lutheran orthodoxy. Why did cell groups take over the Olde Synodical Conference? Because they came over on the ships with Walther and Stephan.

Luther Rocks: Growtivational

Luther Rocks: Growtivational:




'via Blog this'

All Hat - No Cattle: The Bedroom Blogger Strikes Again

Paul McCain - again:
Just a warning to those who may be reading this and might be misled by Mr. Jackson.

Mr. Jackson is a former Lutheran pastor who moved from Lutheran church to Lutheran church, being removed from at least two, as he managed to make himself persona non grata in LCA, LCMS, WELS and CLC circles. He has now tried, with increasing desperation and childish displays of pique, created an alleged “congregation” that consists of immediate family members and a very small circle of Internet congregants, even to the point of claiming to “distribute” the “Lord’s Supper” to them via an Internet connection and streaming worship services from a spare bedroom in his home.

He has a need to be regarded as some sort of expert on all things Lutheran. Suffice it to say, Mr. Jackson never understood Robert Preus, for he never, at any point, in spite of the many academic credentials he loves to mention, received a thorough orthodox and confessional Lutheran education.

So, please warned and aware of Mr. Jackson and his dangerous false teaching.

I have cautioned the BJS web master to be aware that Jackson and his followers will attempt to dominate every conversation on this site, always eager to try to promote and propagate their false teaching. They will, if left unchecked, attempt to turn attention to themselves and their agenda no matter what the topic of conversation here is.

Mr. Jackson has been banned from any number of other Lutheran discussion sites for this behavior.

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John Standley replied:

How about your behavior, Mr. McCain? You’re pretty unloving as well. If what Dr. Jackson says is sooooo wrong then all you have to do is cite the Word and understand that the Word will show the correct doctrine, whether it be your side or his side. Using personal attacks shows that you are worried that the Word won’t do what it’s supposed to do.

Do I agree with some of Jackson’s tactics? No. I see his humor and I laugh along with him. But it seems like you and others get really pissed and then try to defame him. At least Dr. Jackson, when he speaks against what a person says, uses cited quotes from that person.

Like I said before, when you submit yourself to the level of bad-talk instead of dealing with the words, you show yourself to be scared that your words won’t work — instead of trusting God’s Word to work where and when it pleases.

P.S. I appreciate your work on the new BoC.

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Lito Cruz, PhD:


McCain, You are just sour because Jackson had a more thorough education and unlike you he was not intellectually in-bred.

***

GJ - I do not know who John Standley is. I thought his response was perspicacious.

I am impressed by the number of people willing to challenge the wacky world absolution opinion so ardently promoted by McCain, Preus, Cascione, F. Pieper, J. P. Meyer, Walther, and Bishop Stephan the Syphilitic. The issue is not agreement with me, but with the Word of God.

Why is a parish-allergic book salesmen so offended that people wanted to participate in traditional Lutheran services? People all over the world watch our videos and read the sermons. They can judge for themselves.

Bethany Lutheran Church has shown the Olde Synodical Conference how to reach people across the world without spending millions of dollars - but that is the point. How can mission executives travel to Rio and the French Riviera if some bloke is broadcasting for free across the world?

We do not beg for Thrivent dollars or sell their insurance in exchange for church calendars, free napkins, and commissions disguised as grants. Therefore, we do not support the Salvation Army religion (as Thrivent does) or Habitat for Humanity.

There is a precedent for a tent-making ministry. Hint - it rhymes with McCain's first name.

McCain parades his slander as facts. Each choleric post has a different falsehood added, but that comes from the man who was not working with Otten, although Otten has files full of McCain materials.

Why did McCain suddenly apologize to Norman Teigen, privately and publicly? I have the letter Norman wrote to Concordia Publishing House. More significantly, why did McCain viciously attack Norman, inventing a spurious charge and suggesting Teigen should be excommunicated? I could see no connection between Norman's modest and humble comment and McCain's rage - when it first appeared.

I could dissect McCain's latest tantrum, but I would rather laugh at the responses to him. If that is his defense of UOJ, the false doctrine is finished, kaput, shovel-ready.

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "All Hat - No Cattle: The Bedroom Blogger Strikes A...":

McCain, "received a thorough orthodox and confessional Lutheran education."

Translation: "received a thorough Synodical indoctrination."

When clergy question the false gospel of UOJ in the Lutheran Synods it usually becomes a circus, like watching hobo's on a hotdog, as they form a posse to re-educate the one so bold as to question the undocumented doctrine.

***

GJ - Repeat-after-me is the standard fare at seminaries. During the Seminex days, the so-called student rebels were simply following what their professors told them to think.

The MDiv's devotion to their professor's lecture notes is touching indeed, but contrary to their ordination vows, based on the Word of God and the Confessions.

ELCA Bishop Duane Pederson Wages Battle with Grace Eau Claire, Announces His Divorce - St. Paul religion & politics | Examiner.com

D-I-V-O-R-C-E.

ELCA Bishop Duane Pederson Wages Battle with Grace Eau Claire, Announces Divorce - St. Paul religion & politics | Examiner.com:


Duane C. Pederson was pastor of First Lutheran Church in Eau Claire for over a decade before becoming the Bishop of the Northwest Synod of Wisconsin in the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America.  When disgruntled members of Grace Eau Claire decided to start their own mission congregation, or Synodically Authorized Worshipping Community, First Lutheran just down the street was a natural place to hold their first services.

Grace Lutheran Church took a vote to disaffiliate from the ELCA, which narrowly failed, but also voted to affiliate with Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ in a measure to maintain congregational harmony and unity among a majority of members who have found the anti-Biblical theological drift of the ELCA a violation of their own bound conscience.

After the vote, Pederson wrote in an email to a large number of undisclosed recipients, “This past week, I initiated contact with a number of folks who have provided leadership to those who oppose disaffiliation, and others who have not given leadership but who have been dismayed and troubled by what has transpired at Grace.   Nearly all indicate that it is time to depart Grace for the sake of their own faith and personal well-being.”


Pederson and his Synod worked in 2011 to establish “Amazing Grace Lutheran Church,” LLC.   In his invitation to their first worship service, the Bishop wrote,

“Many may wish to worship at a new Synodically Authorized Worshiping Community (SAWC) whose first worship service will be held Sunday after Easter, May 1, 4 pm, at First Lutheran in Eau Claire, and each Sunday thereafter.  Initially, my staff and I will lead the services.  In the near future, the time will likely change to a Sunday morning time.  Those who assemble will determine, with my support, what their life together will become – perhaps it will be a group who assembles for worship for a few months while the future is determined before disbursing to other congregations; perhaps it will become a community with some longevity if there is enough interest and participation; perhaps the community could become a satellite of an existing congregation; perhaps the community could become the beginning of a new congregation.  With the start of this SAWC, there are no preconceived notions as to what it will become, if anything.

It is my hope that many people will assemble on May 1 to begin envisioning a new future.  It is time to “shake the dust off our feet” and move on”

Many saw the Bishop’s creation of a new mission church as the ELCA’s new model for dealing with congregations leaving the ELCA, mirrored after the many successful missions founded by Christians leaving the denomination.

Over time, Amazing Grace Lutheran Church, LLC hasn’t amounted to much of anything, and neither Bishop Pederson nor the former disgruntled members of Grace Lutheran have “moved on.”  Pastor Miller, who served First Lutheran, concerned about the burden of resources and his own congregation becoming embroiled in the dysfunction of denominational politics, agreed to allow Bishop Pederson’s “Synodically Authorized Worshiping Community” to meet at his congregation through the end of January.  Sources maintain that when Pastor Miller indicated his intention to hold fast to the February 1st deadline, he was removed as pastor of the congregation this past January.  Amazing Grace Lutheran Church, LLC now continues to meet in the First Lutheran Church building.

What ensued, in full cooperation with the Bishop’s office, the Synod Council, and the Synod Council consultation committee, is a full-court-press legal battle in the courts of Wisconsin.  Amazing Grace Lutheran Church, LLC and its members have filed lawsuits against Grace Eau Claire to take control of the property and assets.

Local observers not affiliated with either church are acutely aware of the conflict.  “That little group is tearing up two congregations right now, even First Lutheran is in total disarray,” said one man about "Amazing Grace."

On the domestic front, Bishop Pederson announced in a letter to all his congregations that he and his Wife Sylvia are moving on and have begun the legal process of divorce.  “That letter came from this office on official synod letterhead,” confirmed a synod spokesman.

Writing of the divorce, Pederson says,

“Arriving at this point has been many years in the making.  While we do not intend to discuss the details and reasons for ending our marriage, we are now taking a step that is very public.  It is enough for you to know that we are not involved with other people, we have sought and are seeking appropriate support, and the demands of the office of bishop are not a contributing factor.  We are appreciative of Presiding Bishop Mark Hanson’s counsel and care.”

Though divorce among Lutheran clergy is not unheard of - 38% of Lutheran pastors’ marriages end in divorce mostly as a result of burnout in ministry - many clergy are asked to leave their positions and not accept another call for a period of time following their divorce. Bishop Pederson has indicated he intends to continue as Bishop of the Northwest Synod, breaking with a long-standing tradition of repentance and time away from the ministry while the pastor sorts out his life.  In fact, in the ELCA, pastors are strongly advised, often even forced, to take a leave of absence when they decide to divorce- a position affirmed in the denomination's statement on human sexuality: "Gift and Trust".

Psychologist Donald Siposnek PhD., an expert in child custody disputes, says that the process of divorce leaves individuals feeling powerless, causing them to exercise power in other areas of their lives in dysfunctional ways.  For pastors and Bishops, who are called to shepherd God’s flock as the Heavenly Father would Shepherd his flock, divorce usually has the effect of severely impairing a pastor’s ability, at least in the short term, to minister in healthy ways as he struggles to regain a sense of power and control in his own life.  

Essentially, Grace Lutheran Church is seen by some as the child in a bitter custody dispute subjected to the spiritual and emotional trauma of becoming a vehicle by which their Bishop regains a sense of control and equilibrium of power over his own life.  Some have suggested that Bishop Pederson’s change in position from letting Grace Eau Claire leave the ELCA peacefully and orderly to a position of enabling and encouraging- or at the very least refusing to publicly denounce and discourage- a protracted legal battle coincides with the culmination of the announcement of his divorce.  Many point to the fact that there are over 20 congregations across the United States “dually affiliated” in which their Bishops are not playing a role to encourage and enable bitter and pro-tracted legal disputes.  Those congregations are all in synods where their bishops have a publicly healthy family life.  “Pastors might exercise control in unhealthy ways over congregations to make up for the loss of control they have experienced in their own lives as they go through divorce.”

Christian Psychologists who counsel pastors and bishops through divorce warn clergy of the ways in which divorce can impact churches and synods, recognizing that as imperfect people even clergy fall into the trap of playing out their own conflicted personal lives upon the lives of those they have been entrusted to minister to and support.

Christian Divorce Services advises clergy,“If Satan can’t rip people away from Christ through your divorce, he will use it to rip apart your church.”

Sometimes the only way to restore peace, harmony, and spiritual health is for the pastor or bishop to step down out of a sense of divine grace and love for the ministry and his flock.  This takes great humility and a greater sense of commitment to your vows of ordination than to constitutional or canon law.

It is unlikely that Bishop Pederson will leave his post anytime soon as a member of a constitutionally driven rather than Biblically driven denomination, though his resignation as Bishop may be the most prudent and faithful choice he can make.  As he remains bishop, psychologists would offer that the Eau Claire congregations under his care could continue to be in bitter conflict, despair, and disarray perhaps for years to come as the Bishop overcomes his own personal sense of loss, powerlessness, conflict, and despair.  Individual members and even entire churches would be faced with one of two choices: stay on for the bumpy ride, or find someplace else- even some other denomination- to go to.  The reality, though, is that many Christians walk away and never return to any Church.

Eau Claire, a small town where virtually everybody knows everybody else, will experience the effects of this bitter Church fight, vis-a-vis the Bishop’s divorce, for years to come.



'via Blog this'

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "ELCA Bishop Duane Pederson Wages Battle with Grace...":

What's ironic is the two large ELCA churches were just one block apart from each other. When I was a kid I attended a service or two at one or the other of these ELCA churches, but I can't remember which one. I only remember how the inside looked, and their websites don't have panoramic views of the interior:

http://g.co/maps/56s6g

Grace Lutheran (now LCMC):
http://www.grace-church.org/

First Lutheran:
http://first-lutheran.org/about/

Frantic Floggers of UOJ Miss the Point.No Authority Trumps the Word of God or the Confessions

I find Paul appealing,
but McCain appalling.

KJV Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The first student post at Steadfast Enthusiasts gathered over 500 comments and is still moving along. Therefore, Andrew Preus posted a second, similar post, which is also gathering comments. Meanwhile, LaughQuest has turned a Sabre of Boldness award into another defense of Universal Objective Justification, forgiveness without the Word of God, an opinion called "pure and wholesome" by Andrew's father, Rolf.

Some are chiming in to say Robert Preus never rejected UOJ, although his book proves otherwise. To show I am wrong, Andrew cited a Geneva-trained theologian not mentioned in Justification and Rome. "My dead aunt Gertrude agrees with me, so that proves I am right." That is the line of thinking displayed as the UOJ train begins to derail.

The Kokomo Statements (three from J. P. Meyer's book, Ministers of Christ) are either used by the pernicious justification-by-faith Lutherans to abuse UOJ or they are the official teaching of the Wisconsin Sect. They are wonderful but criticized by Jon Buchholz, the desert DP. My head spins trying to follow the authorities whirling around. But that is the trouble with Enthusiasm, when the Holy Spirit is divorced from the Word. All the opinions have that in common, but harmony is impossible. Either God declared the entire world forgiven the moment Christ died - or - He did so the moment Christ rose from the dead. In both cases He neglected to give us a single passage saying this was true. So the UOJ Stormtroopers cannot even get the most important date in world history straight. That does not bode well for the longevity of their fad.

But all the UOJ fussing avoids the central point, revealed by St. Paul, a major theme of the Reformation - No other Gospel. The Lutheran Reformers cited Galatians 1:8 frequently and refused to compromise on justification by faith. If they could bring Robert Preus back from the dead, or an angel, or the Apostle Paul, and all agreed against the Gospel, the Gospel would remain true.

The state churches of Germany were rationalistic in the 19th century, so those authorities were in complete agreement with the universities. All agreed - Christianity was at best as a moralistic, society-transforming philosophy. That was their emergent church, so believers could not be ordained in most cases. The power of church and state did not repudiate the truth of the Scriptures. That did not change one iota of the Word of God.

Synods Do Not Establish Doctrine

Michigan Lutheran Seminary, WELS: Habemus Papam!

Rev. Joel Petermann has accepted the call to serve as president of Michigan Lutheran Seminary (MLS), Saginaw, Mich. MLS is one of four three two WELS preparatory high schools operated by the synod. The MLS president has many responsibilities, including leading the school in its mission to train students for the public ministry of the gospel and to encourage them to attend Martin Luther College, New Ulm, Minn., upon graduation.

Petermann currently serves as pastor at St. Paul, Amherst, N.H., and president of the North Atlantic District. He will continue in those roles on a limited basis as he gradually transitions into his new position. After the North Atlantic District elects a new president this summer, Petermann will complete the transition and assume the role of school president full time.

A 1986 graduate of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Mequon, Wis., Petermann has experience as a preparatory school and college instructor, a home missionary, and a parish pastor. Although Petermann will miss many aspects of parish ministry, he is looking forward to “encouraging young people to consider the glorious and joyous ministry of the gospel of Jesus.”

The position of MLS president has been vacant since September 2010, but Rev. George Ferch, chairman of MLS’s Governing Board, reports that the vacancy has been capably filled by Dr. William Zeiger, vice president of MLS.

Paul McCain - The Fruit of UOJ

Paul McCain graduated from a Roman Catholic high school,
but never really left.
The crypto-papists in the LCMS love him for that.

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Pope Paul the Unlearned Denounces Himself":

Read Paul McCain's rants on the BJS Justification thread. His opening salvo was a spit filled personal attack. He continually goaded myself and Lito Cruz to talk about the distribution of Holy Communion at Bethany Lutheran Church. I answered his question with a series of my own questions trying to narrow down his main concern. His response was another hate filled attack at Pastor Jackson.

Was all of that a fruit of faith?...not a chance. Some people who do not have the Holy Spirit's faith in Christ do not go out with a wimper, they go out snarling like a rabid chipmunk.

UOJ is evil. It is a false gospel spawned in the heart of reason by men, who rejected the Holy Spirit's gracious and reassuring faith in Christ alone, created to establish their full absolution and righteousness without faith. OJ and SJ were simply terms used to limit the omnipotent declarations of God and change the righteousness of Christ in the Holy Spirit's faith into a beggar's withered hand.

Preus Clan Still Tries to Rescue Universal Absolution. Another Epic Fail

This photo is much better than the pixelated monstrosity posted in Steadfast Enthusiasts.

Young Andrew Preus is still in seminary, at St. Catharines, eh?

But he wants to rescue Robert Preus from the accusation that his grandfather taught justification by faith in his final book, repudiating the UOJ that animates the Olde Synodical Conference, as it did Halle University and Stephan Huber.

Not so! - young Andrew insists. Perhaps he will write his MDiv thesis on The Errors of Ichabod.

But Andrew wants to argue from the lecture notes of the 1980s, which only proves my point. I would love to have the actual lecture notes, plus the original draft of Justification and Rome. Nevertheless, the book is a repudiation of UOJ, even after being mauled and abused by Dan and Rolf. I can only deal with the actual data--the published book--not the smokescreen interpretation of the perfervid clan. The 1980s notes do not prove the book argues UOJ.

The sad fact remains - the clan cannot see the plain meaning of the book, just as they cannot comprehend the clear words of the Scripture - not even in the Romans 4:24-25 transition to Romans 5:1-2.

What makes their claims valid? They say, "We are related, so we know. We have the Deposit of Faith." My grandfather was an inventor, but that does not make me one. He was a mechanical genius, but I break things while repairing them. The DNA argument only works among the Synodical Conference types, who regard in-breeding as a plus.

I will get into the recent history of this conflict. Jack and Robert Preus used a vicious attack against Walter Maier Junior to displace him as the next president of the seminary (Springfield moving to Ft. Wayne). The excuse was that Maier taught justification by faith instead of UOJ.

Jack launched a national campaign, and it worked. Maier was sprayed with skunk aroma, and that stuck. In fact, I have been accused of being a "Maier disciple," although I never appeal to his work. That made any Ft. Wayne backing away from UOJ awkward, because it would have meant that the Preus-Scaer-Marquart team was wrong.

They could argue from Walther-Pieper-Stoeckhardt, but they could not base their opinions on the Book of Concord, Luther, or the Scriptures. I have studied plenty of UOJ literature. They admit in their own publications, as the amusing Jack Kilcrease has, that UOJ or OJ or General Justification are new terms never found in the Confessions or Holy Writ. They have even conceded that the Biblical word justification always means justification by faith. Always!

Now there is a replay of the same conflict. Ft. Wayne's David Scaer is still an ardent UOJ advocate, but Ft. Wayne's Pless clearly teaches otherwise.

The pixelated photo of Robert Preus is like the  picture of justification offered by Andrew:
distorted.

Synods Do Not Establish Doctrine


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Rev. James Schulz:

I don’t think that Robert Preus denied Objective Justification as much as he didn’t see the need to use the term in “Justification and Rome.” If the Objective/Subjective Justification categorization is so obvious, so convincing, such pure, unadulterated gospel, such a crystal clear explanation of how a person is saved, then why didn’t Robert Preus present it that way in “Justification and Rome”? Why didn’t the Concordists present it that way? Why is it always assumed, but never categorized in such manner as it has since the 1980s:
The Doctrine of Justification
1. Objective Justification
2. Subjective Justification


I remain unconvinced that we need to emphasize the terms “Objective” and “Subjective” Justification because they effectively fight off the false doctrine of synergism. I remain unconvinced that the authors and editors of the Book of Concord were fighting Justification by works and so emphasized “Subjective Justification” instead of “Objective Justification.”


So, convince me.


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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Preus Clan Still Tries to Rescue Universal Absolut...":

Andrew Preus continues the same tactic as prior UOJers. Whenever confronted with the facts, they downplay UOJ to make it sound as Lutheran as possible, and not a product of Reformed Decretal theology. UOJers ought to be made to defend, not the aspects of UOJ that might sound most Lutheran, but the aspect of UOJ that sounds most Reformed, i.e., that the Father DECREED that the entire world was justified on the day of resurrection.

Sebastian Schmidt, by the way, studied in Geneva for his doctorate, and Strasburg U. where he taught was getting into Reformed territory, if it wasn't in Reformed territory. 


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LPC has left a new comment on your post "Preus Clan Still Tries to Rescue Universal Absolut...":

I see that an LC-MS prof chimed in saying he was in constant conversation w Robert Preus till his death and Preus never backed away from UOJ. He expects us to take his word for it right?

At any rate Preus stands or fall in the relation to the Word and what he wrote in Justification and Rome. He did a lousy job teaching UOJ there.

LPC

***

GJ - I do not accept testimonials from seances when we have the book available. I have bought three and given two away. Someone on Steadfast pointed out that Message A does not always come through to students, who heard Message B, if they are listening at all. Chemnitz said he wished he would have listened more to Luther when he had the chance.

Pope Paul the Unlearned Denounces Himself

Steadfast Enthusiasts


His Holiness spoke from his blogging throne in the guest bedroom:


"The ironic thing is that in spite of all Jackson’s alleged scholarship, he actually never received a solid Lutheran theological education, and that shows in all his weird rants and ravings. A shame he has gathered a tiny little band of Internet followers around him. Deceiving and being deceived."


McCain, as a young MDiv, asked me to review Kurt Marquart's book on the Church - in Christian News. When the review appeared, he wrote back with great happiness that the book was selling like hotcakes as a result.


McCain was quite willing to review my Liberalism: Its Cause and Cure - for Christian News. He was quite positive about it. I could also quote from his letters when he was campaign manager for Al Barry and Secret-Agent-Man at Christian News.


I do not know what made him become so rancid at such an early age - not to mention what caused his appalling loss of memory.


I also studied at his alma mater, taking classes with Klemet Preus and David Scaer. I attended lectures by Robert Preus and Kurt Marquart. Marquart and another professor (at St. Louis) wrote positive reviews of Catholic, Lutheran, Protestant.


Most people know that, but McCain's grasp of basic facts is slipping. He constantly reads this blog, as do others who need edification but only find reason to be even more bitter and hateful. I do not understand it.


McCain is not qualified to teach in higher education. He knows that, but has never done the work required to make him a qualified scholar. A PhD is recognition of proven scholarship, not an allegation of scholarship.  


McCain has never really served a parish, since his first and only parish job was just a cover, so he could get DP Al Barry elected in place of Ralph Bohlmann. Since then he has successfully dodged a congregational call. That makes him a "pastor," a shepherd without a flock, and an expert in theology? He is the only editor I know who had a Book of Concord recalled by his own denomination - for gross defects.