Tuition and Fees Notes
General Note on Fees:
In the table above, various fees are not included in the fees column in order
to make comparisons between seminaries possible. For instance, tuition for
pre-sem courses such as summer Greek, refresher courses, extra summer courses.
Also, fees not charged every student each year at the seminary, e.g.,
application, transcript, graduation/diploma, late registration, health
insurance, and vehicle parking stickers.
Order of Notes: The order of the seminaries below follows the order of the chart—by most to least expensive over four years with room & board included:
Order of Notes: The order of the seminaries below follows the order of the chart—by most to least expensive over four years with room & board included:
#1: Concordia St.
Louis Missouri (LCMS)
P. 17-20: A person must take on
average 13.22 credit hours per quarter, and there are three quarters in a year.
With 18 credit hours for vicarage, it comes up to 137 credit hours.
p. 70 There now is a tuition cost
of $11,070 for vicarage, plus a vicarage fee of $579. Perhaps the vicarage and
the person's home congregation helps pay this vicarage cost?
p. 71 $25 and $35 fees are Student
Technology Fees.
p. 72 Room & Board charge
listed is the cheapest rate available (e.g., double-occupancy dorm room).
This is probably unrelated to the new vicarage tuition
charge, but see:
Convention Proceedings 2010, 64th
Regular Convention, LCMS, Houston, TX, July 10-17, 2010, Resolution: To
Increase Impact of Vicarage Program, p. 133.
Despite the high price, Concordia St. Louis' enrollment is
up this year (2011-12), probably due to many students going to pre-seminary and
seminary starting in 2007, simply because the economy is bad. The thinking goes
that now's the time to go to school when not so much money can be made. From email:
"The incoming class
(2011-2012) is comprised of 133 students, including all those newly enrolled in
residential and distance programs: 70 residential M.Div. students; four
certificate students; one deaconess student; 10 EIIT (Ethnic Immigrant
Institute of Theology) students; 19 SMP (Specific Ministry Pastor Program)
students; one DIT (Deaf Institute of Theology) deaconess student; and five CHS
(Center for Hispanic Studies) students and one CHS deaconess student. In
addition, Concordia Seminary’s Graduate School has 22 new students: five M.A.
(Master of Arts) students; eight Ph.D. (Doctor of Philosophy) students, and
nine S.T.M. (Master of Sacred Theology) students. The nineteen new SMP students received vicarage assignments during
the Opening Service as well."
President Harrison encourages people to identify young
adults to enter the ministry (video).
----------
----------
#2: Concordia Ft.
Wayne Indiana (LCMS)
Apparently no tuition is charged for vicarage, but the
Vicarage Fee/Internship Fee is $579.
-------
#3: Luth. Theo. Sem. at Philadelphia (ELCA)
-------
#3: Luth. Theo. Sem. at Philadelphia (ELCA)
p. 32: "The expected course
load for a full-time first professional student is generally ten course units
per year, taken at the rate of four to five units per full semester and between
one and two units during the January or Summer Terms."
p. 35: “Affiliation Fee is for
attending non-ELCA seminary and only affiliating with an ELCA seminary.”
-----------
#4: Trinity Luth. Sem., Columbus, Ohio (ELCA)
#4: Trinity Luth. Sem., Columbus, Ohio (ELCA)
“Trinity is the only ELCA seminary
that has no debt and deferred maintenance. This places our school in a strong
position for the future. As synod and church-wide support continue to
decrease...”
---------------
#5: Luther Seminary,
Minneapolis, MN (ELCA)
“Mandatory Annual Fee
Mandatory for all Luther Seminary
students registered for three or more semester courses, including interns.
Insurance premiums billed annually.
Health Insurance Cost-sharing Plan:
Not available for family coverage: $1,420”
Not available for family coverage: $1,420”
Note: Luther
Seminary in Minneapolis is the only seminary where I saw a cost-sharing plan,
though I might have easily missed it looking at the fees of other seminaries.
Health insurance through the seminary is a mandatory fee at all ELCA seminaries
for full-time students. Health
insurance is commonly available through most seminaries and can be added to the
student bill.
P. 80: "A normal course load
for the master of divinity degree is 10 courses per year"
P. 158: “Board & Housing”
----------
#6: Pacific Luth. Theo. Sem., Berkeley, California (ELCA)
#6: Pacific Luth. Theo. Sem., Berkeley, California (ELCA)
No meal plan is mentioned.
“Each Wednesday, a community lunch
in the PLTS refectory offers the opportunity for our community to share a meal
together.”
“There is a common kitchen and
dining area on the basement level of Beasom equipped with a gas range and oven,
pots, pans, baking equipment, dishes and utensils, and assigned refrigerator,
freezer, and shelf space for each resident. “
------------
#7: Lutheran Theological Southern Seminary, Columbia, S.C. (ELCA)
#7: Lutheran Theological Southern Seminary, Columbia, S.C. (ELCA)
ELCA's
Southern Seminary, Lenoir-Rhyne University to Merge, March 30, 2011:
“Lutheran Theological Southern Seminary will become the
university’s [Lenoir-Rhyne University,
Hickory, N.C.] school of theology.”
Note: The merger allows Lenoir-Rhyne U to offer first-year
seminary courses before students move on to seminary, which is similar to what
the LCMS's Concordia U's want to do:
“The Lutheran Theological Southern
Seminary in Columbia, S.C., entered into a collaborative partnership with
Lenoir-Rhyne University, making this the first combination of a Lutheran
seminary with a university....“My goal is that we would be the primary seminary
in the United States,” Miller said.”I hope we can continue to offer excellent
education"....The two institutions plan to combine administrative and
financial operations. L-R currently manages the financial component of the
seminary, but wants to merge its recruiting, registration, fundraising,
advancement and academic programs with LTSS....Powell said he hopes to offer
first-year seminary courses at L-R that will provide students with the
fundamentals to continue their education at Lutheran Theological Southern
Seminary. He also hopes with the completion of the merger that L-R can offer
graduate programs at LTSS.”
Note: 7 weeks of lunch for summer Greek is $112, so 36 weeks
for the 9 months of the regular school year work out to $576 (my guesstimate):
p. 10: My Note: Assuming ELCA member
tuition rate
p. 11: Single Room (single
occupancy) $2,970
p. 12: My Note: Only lunch is
offered in the refectory.
-------------
#8: Luth. Theo. Sem. at Gettysburg, PA (ELCA)
#8: Luth. Theo. Sem. at Gettysburg, PA (ELCA)
“Tuition $13,050 (Fees included in
tuition).
*Based on 30 credits per academic year.
Internship Tuition: 1,000 (est)”
*Based on 30 credits per academic year.
Internship Tuition: 1,000 (est)”
Budget:
“Food & Household Supplies -
$3,500”
No meal plan cost is listed:
http://www.ltsg.edu/Students/files/Student-Handbook-2011-2012
p. 121: "All dormitory students must buy the lunch meal plan at the dining hall."
p. 121: "All dormitory students must buy the lunch meal plan at the dining hall."
Gettysburg
Seminary Self-Study Executive Summary, DRAFT 6/2/2010
“In the last decade, LTSG has been
a model among the ELCA in preparing and living within a balanced budget. As a
result of this care, Gettysburg Seminary comes to 2010 with a decade of
balanced budgets. By many measures, Gettysburg is first or second among ELCA
seminaries in terms of its financial strength....Today, the higher cost of
delivering quality degree programs with fewer residential students
necessitating more individualized courses of study, and the fact that this
school can no longer increase tuition, room and board at the level of the past
decade is bothersome. As ATS and MSCHE are well aware, there is a severe crisis
in seminary education in this country and Canada, and even a crisis with the
M.Div. degree itself, which remains by far the degree most often sought at our
school.”
“Lutheran Theological Seminary at
Gettysburg, Pa., adopted a budget for 2009-2010...Tuition increased by 5
percent.”
p. 54 “Beginning with the 2011-12
academic year, fees are included in tuition.
Internship Tuition: $ 1,000 per
year
p. 55 Room & Board: Dormitory
rooms are furnished and dormitory students must purchase the meal plan.”
----------
#9: Wartburg Theo. Sem., Dubuque, IA (ELCA)
#9: Wartburg Theo. Sem., Dubuque, IA (ELCA)
I couldn't find any estimate of meal plan, even for lunches.
“Tuition for a Master of Divinity
degree is payable at the current rate each year for three years. Shortening the
time spent earning the degree does not reduce the cost.”
Residence Hall Units: ranges from
165-235 Sq Ft: $275
Housing:
“You may purchase meals in the
kitchen, or you may purchase food and cook for yourself. If you take your meals
in the school refectory, you must plan ahead for weekends and vacation periods
when the food service is closed. Be sure to save some money to cover food
during weekend and holiday times.”
---------------
#10 Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago (ELCA)
#10 Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago (ELCA)
Like most ELCA seminaries, their website mentions a refectory,
but there's no information about meal plans. Everyone is on their own,
apparently:
“During the internship year, a
student does not pay tuition, therefore, no financial aid is awarded”
--------------
#11: Bethany Lutheran Seminary, Mankato, MN (ELS)
#11: Bethany Lutheran Seminary, Mankato, MN (ELS)
P. 18 Tuition and Fees.
Note: Not ATS accredited.
-----------
-----------
#12: Lutheran
Theological Seminary, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan (ELCA)
“Small Room $7,490 per academic
year (all meals included)”
“BTh/MDiv/MTS/Certificate Programs
Credit: $650 per course
Upgraded MDiv course: $750”
Upgraded MDiv course: $750”
Note: Most Canadian seminaries are associated with
universities. Also, one runs into "upgrading" of courses and even of degrees,
for example, from B.Th to M.Div. The B. Th. Is the equivalent of MDiv in the Anglosphere
(Australia, New Zealand, etc). Sometimes additional coursework or reading is
necessary for the upgrade:
“...holders of the B.Th. degree
from St. Andrew’s College may apply to the Academic Committee to have their
B.Th. upgraded to an M.Div. A new diploma will be issued upon surrender of the
B.Th. diploma and payment of a processing fee.”
“Any Continuing Education course
which is to be used for academic credit will need to be upgraded by further
work to meet the standards of full academic courses.”
2. an accumulated average of not
less than 65% over the three or four years of study in residency.
REQUIRED CURRICULUM: 21 COURSES + 9
Electives
So that works out to 10 courses per year for three years
(for our tuition and fees calculation purposes).
-------------
#13: Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Mequon, WI (WELS)
-------------
#13: Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Mequon, WI (WELS)
Note: Not ATS accredited.
------------
#14: Concordia Lutheran Theological Seminary, St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada (LCC)
------------
#14: Concordia Lutheran Theological Seminary, St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada (LCC)
“p. 52: $735 per three credit hours
(graduate),
p. 52: Inasmuch as Concordia is
subsidized by Lutheran Church–Canada for the primary purpose of training
pastors for LCC, an educational fee surcharge of 10% will be applied to
students from partner churches, and 25% to all others.
p. 52: The seminary
administration’s need-based disbursal of Concordia’s financial aid funds will endeavour,
as appropriate and where possible, to supply 80% of tuition expenses.
p. 53: Student Activity Fee: $1.75
per registered semester hour ($63 for 36 credits)
p. 18: Transfer Students
To qualify for the M.Div. or M.T.S.
degree, students who transfer from an accredited seminary or theological school
recognized by Brock must complete at least their final 36 credit hours at
Concordia.
p. 21: M.Div. Degree Requirements:
Successful completion of 111 semester hours (93 required)
p. 23: 36 credit hours per year for
years 1, 2 and 4, and vicarage counts as 6 credit hours during the 3rd year.”
--------------
#15: Waterloo Lutheran Seminary, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada (ELCC)
#15: Waterloo Lutheran Seminary, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada (ELCC)
MDiv Program at a Glance:
• Number of courses: 30 courses
plus placements for Contextual Stream students
• Format: full-time or part-time
studies
• Tuition: approximately $18,000
for program
“Completion of the program includes
three years of course work, as well as a one year internship normally in the
fourth year of study.
MDiv contextual option requires 31
half-credit courses“
Note: Tuition is $2,386 per term, but every Canadian student
receives a scholarship (bursary) of $518, so the real tuition rate is $1,868
per term. I think the vicarage is 3 terms because they want the student
interning a full year. Otherwise, the school year is 9 months or two terms
(Fall and Winter). There is a vicarage fee of $501, but the placement church
usually picks that up.
“Full-Time Tuition $2,386.00 per
term
MDiv Internship: $167.00 per term
for 3 terms
Bursary* $518.00 per term
International Students: $5,175.00
per term
Normally the placement covers the
cost of the Internship tuition. Bursaries are not available to students on MDiv
Internships.
Internship tuition: $167.00 per
term for 3 terms”
My note: Room and Board for two
terms: single dormitory: $4,263.00
-----------
#16: Concordia Luth.
Sem., Edmonton, Alberta, Canada (LCC)
Note: I added the field education fee in as a vicarage fee
(though field education isn't vicarage) since I don't think other seminaries
charge for field education. Also, I suppose the field education fee is a
one-time fee, and I want to keep the cost comparison chart meaningful:
Tuition per credit hour: $220.00
Library fee (full-time students):
$30.00/semester
Student activity fee (full-time
students): $30.00/semester
Vicarage fee (6 hours x tuition
rate per hour): $1320.00
Parish Ministry Immersion lab fee:
$150.00
Note: A person would have to take 31.33 credit hours per
year to come up with 94 credit hours in three academic years. Vicarage year is
credited as 6 credit hours:
“The Master of Divinity program is
a four-year full-time course of study
The Master of Divinity degree
requires satisfactory mastery* of 100 credit hours”
I only came up with $21,999 for tuition for 4 yrs including
vicarage tuition. Even with fees it only came up to $22,508. Perhaps they
lowered the price from 24,000?:
“Tuition alone for the four years
(including vicarage) exceeds $24,000.”
“But the seminaries’ pursuits are
more necessary now than ever: now more than 60 of the 320-or-so LCC churches
have pastoral vacancies — that’s one in six; what’s more, 50 LCC pastors were
eligible to retire during one recent three-year period, and some of them have
retired; the situation is not getting better.”
--------------
Other information of Interest:
Other information of Interest:
ELCA
NEWS SERVICE: Lilly Endowment Awards ELCA $1 Million to Address Seminarian
Debt Concerns, January 5, 2010
“The ELCA has about 2,500
seminarians in its eight seminaries, and supervises the work of another 115
seminarians in other seminaries who are preparing for ordained ELCA
ministry....The ELCA Fund for Leaders in Mission is a seminary scholarship program
created by the ELCA. Since 2000 it has distributed more than $4.6 million in
scholarship support for 516 students enrolled at ELCA seminaries....In general
"more seminarians have debt, and their debts are larger," said Donald
L. Huber, project coordinator. Such
debts have negative implications for seminaries and for the church as seminary
graduates seek to pay loans or default on them, which is already happening, he
said....Debts carried by new pastors and professional lay leaders are a
significant concern, said the Rev. Paul N. Hanson, director, Fund for Leaders,
ELCA Development Services. "I
believe that the research will show that this debt is having an adverse effect
on ministry in congregations....The project goal is to reduce the number of students
who graduate with debt and to lower the size of that debt, Huber said. Project leaders plan to develop an overall
strategy for fundraising for students, he added.”
End of Notes
This and associated documents can be found here:
---
bruce-church (http://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "LCMS Seminary Cost Scandal: Fabulous Costs To Supp...":
A couple interesting seminary cost comparison links:
Dallas Theological Seminary has an interactive database that allows one to compare various seminaries by cost and other factors:
http://www.dts.edu/resources/seminarycomparison/
Luther Seminary in Minneapolis compares the cost of living on campus vs. off campus here:
http://www.luthersem.edu/finaid/tuition_costs.aspx
Salaries and Tuition - ELCA and LCMS Compared
---
bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "LCMS Seminary Cost Scandal: Fabulous Costs To Supp...":
related posts:
Graduate of Bethany Lutheran College taking on growing student loan debt load:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/03/student-take-on-growing-debt-loads.html
---
Report on college loan delinquency rate raises alarms - latimes.com
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/03/report-on-college-loan-delinquency-rate.html
26 comments:
Wow! A hundred thousand dollar education. What a way for the LCMS seminaries to go into 2012 when the federal govt stops subsidizing student loans! That will cost many seminary students another $10 grand in interest, I'd guesstimate.
So even though Ft. Wayne is listed as costing only $96,000 (plus miscellaneous fees), the true cost (TCO) of the MDiv will be well over $100k, especially when one considers how much the person could have made if he had gone into the workforce directly after college. Truly, the Ft. Wayne student is as much a Hundred Thousand Dollar Man as the St. Louis student is.
For more about how student loans at graduate schools will no longer be subsidized by the federal govt starting in 2012, see:
Judgment Day Approaches for the LCMS Seminaries:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/08/judgment-day-approaches-for-lcms.html
If you don't think the numbers don't add up, that's because the graphic is an excerpt of the complete spreadsheet, so some columns are missing. The complete spreadsheet and graph at the links provided at the bottom of the post.
Of course, also visit the mega seminary fraud post at:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/05/lutheran-seminary-fraud-students-are.html
The Hundred Thousand Dollar Man is take on the Six Million Dollar Man, no doubt. Just as the Six Million Dollar Man had a nickname, the Bionic Man, so Missouri's men are nicknamed Icon Man and Trend Man, I see. The wording of the Missouri cartoon is very familiar to 1970s TV viewers, too:
The Six Million Dollar Man:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Six_Million_Dollar_Man
In the opening sequence, a narrator (series producer Harve Bennett) identifies the protagonist, "Steve Austin, astronaut. A man barely alive." Richard Anderson, in character as Oscar Goldman, then intones off-camera, "Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability to build the world's first bionic man. Steve Austin will be that man. Better than he was before. Better...stronger...faster." During the first season, beginning withThe Six Million Dollar Man: "Population Zero," Anderson, as Goldman, intoned more simply, “We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him better than he was. Better...stronger...faster.”
A couple interesting seminary cost comparison links:
Dallas Theological Seminary has an interactive database that allows one to compare various seminaries by cost and other factors:
http://www.dts.edu/resources/seminarycomparison/
Luther Seminary in Minneapolis compares the cost of living on campus vs. off campus here:
http://www.luthersem.edu/finaid/tuition_costs.aspx
One-fourteenth of the national debt derives from student loan debt:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/08/the-debt-crisis-at-american-colleges/243777/
As this semester begins, college loans are nearing the $1 trillion mark, more than what all households owe on their credit cards. Fully two-thirds of our undergraduates have gone into debt, many from middle class families, who in the past paid for much of college from savings. The College Board likes to say that the average debt is "only" $27,650. What the Board doesn't say is that when personal circumstances go wrong, as can happen in a recession, interest, late payment penalties, and other charges can bring the tab up to $100,000. Those going on to graduate school, as upwards of half will, can end up facing twice that.
IS IT A BUBBLE?
If you want to get a name as an economic seer, try this one. The next subprime crisis will come from defaults on student debts, starting with for-profit colleges and rising to the Ivy League. The parallels with housing are striking. In both, the written warnings aren't understood, especially on penalties and interest rates. And in both, it's assumed that what's being bought will rise in value, in one case the real estate, in the other the salaries which will accrue with a degree. One bubble has burst; the second is already losing air.
I looked at Concordia St. Louis's catalog, and they were charging a lot for vicarage already in 2009-10, if not before.
Here's is the comparison between the charges for the 2009-10 school, and the 2010-11 school year. In that one year both LCMS seminaries raised their 4-year costs to the student by over $6,000!
Concordia Sem Missouri
2009 Tuition 22,408 Fees 0 Total 22,408
Vicarage Tuition 10,170, Fee 579 Total 4-Yrs $77,973
2011 Tuition 24,354 Fees 35 Total 24,389
Vicarage Tuition 11,070, Fee 579 Total 4-Yrs 84,262
Conclusion: $6,289 4-year total increase
Concordia Sem Ft. Wayne
2009 Tuition 21,150 Fees 492 Total 21,642
Vicarage Tuition 0 Fee 579 Total 4-Yrs $65,505
2011 Tuition 23,400 Fees 456 Total 23,856
Vicarage Tuition 0 Fee $579 Total 4-Yrs 72,147*
Conclusion: $6,642 4-year total increase
See:
Concordia Seminary 2009-10 Academic Catalog, p. 63 Tuition & Fees:
http://liveweb.archive.org/http://www.csl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/AcademicCatalog2009-2010.4.pdf
Concordia Seminary 2010-11 Academic Catalog, p. 70 Tuition & Fees:
http://www.csl.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/2011-2012academiccatalog.pdf
concordia Ft. Wayne 2009-2010 (p. 101) + 2010-11 Catalogs:
http://www.ctsfw.edu/Page.aspx?pid=832
Seminary Costs Compared - Missouri Leads With Most Expensive, Sep 17, 2010
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2010/09/seminary-costs-compared-missouri-leads.html
The recession and high values of housing led to greater college enrollment, i.e., people lost their jobs and sold their houses to attend pre-sem and seminary. Now, however, with a second dip recession threatening and housing values set to decrease further as banks put more foreclosed houses on the market, potential students won't get any money back out of their houses to pay for pre-sem and seminary:
http://lifeinc.today.com/_news/2011/09/19/7844200-want-to-go-to-college-kid-check-the-home-value?preview=true
The big question is what this finding might mean now that the housing boom has gone bust. Lovenheim said it’s too early to tell what effect the housing bust has had on college enrollment.
There are other factors at play now, too. A weak economy can drive more people to college because they don’t see any job prospects without a degree. Financial aid also became more readily available during the recession.
“If you are just taking all else equal, the loss in housing wealth should reduce college-going behavior among middle-class families,” he said. “However, all else has not been held equal.”
He noted that many families are struggling not just with falling home values but also with stock market losses and high unemployment. That, too, could impact whether parents feel they can afford to send their kids to college.
“Families are just less well off now than they were five years ago, and particularly a lot of middle-class families,” he said. “(Going to college) is going to be harder and require more debt.”
St. Catherines is ATS accredited:
http://www.ats.edu/MemberSchools/Pages/SchoolDetail.aspx?ID=345
Denomination: Lutheran Church-Canada
Fall 2010 Data:
Enrollment: 21 (17.3 FTE)
Faculty Full-Time: 3
Faculty Part-Time: 8
Approved Degrees: MDiv, MTS
Comprehensive distance education program: no
Year of initial accreditation: 2011
I do not know how much value should be associated with being accredited. The Lutheran sects accept anyone with an MDiv as long as he is not a boat-rocker. They will even reject potential seminary students - just for exhibiting such attributes.
They learned that trick from ELCA, which will not allow someone to study if he or she questions Leftist orthodoxy.
PS - Besides that, an MDiv from a synodical school has no academic merit anywhere. It may not keep someone from graduate study at a real school, but it carries no weight of its own.
A DMin from any school is a joke, but not as funny as the DMins who call themselves "Doctor" on their parish website.
A report comparing the cost of Lutheran seminaries with other ATS accredited seminaries using 2011-12 school year data won't be available until January 2012, which ATS says is their usual reporting speed.
Seminaries ranked by cost for the 2011-12 school year:
Missouri Seminaries Are Leaders - In Charging Too Much:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2010/09/seminary-costs-compared-missouri-leads.html
Two more related posts:
Hardened Hearts in Lutherdom:
Making Students Support the Creaky Synod, Sept 25, 2011
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/09/hardened-hearts-in-lutherdom-making.html
Catholics and Greek Orthodox Give Better Education Deals, Sept 25, 2011:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/09/catholics-and-greek-orthodox-give.html
related post:
SP Harrison Explains How To Handle
LCMS Student Loan Debt. Paul McCain a High Caliber Assistant, October 31, 2011:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/10/sp-harrison-explains-how-to-handle-lcms.html
LCMS Seminaries - Where the Money Is.
Ultra High Tuition and Salaries:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/12/lcms-seminaries-where-money-is-ultra.html
SMP vs. M.Div., and Ft. Wayne vs. St. Louis:
http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=16670
....There was a critical exchange at the Ft. Wayne Symposia yesterday afternoon...a pastor went to the microphone and asked President Rast to “prophecy.” What do you see for the future of the Specific Ministry Pastor (SMP) program?” President Rast did not hesitate but boldly asserted two things. First, this is a question for the LCMS to answer for herself. Secondly, President Rast proclaimed that Concordia Theological Seminary – Fort Wayne will do all that it can to convince the LCMS that its pastoral formation ought to be done in the traditional resident manner. This is a good thing for the LCMS and we are pleased that President Rast has taken this stance since the SMP program produces men who may be personally committed to the Lord’s Ministry but can never stack up theologically since they receive only half the training of the traditional approach and nearly none of that on campus.
Even though Rast supported the traditional residential approach there is nothing traditional about the new pastoral formation curriculum that he, Dr. Scaer, and the other faculty members have developed over the last few years. It is another blessing for the LCMS....It also places them into small study and mentoring groups led by professors and focusing on the translation of the Bible. This is a fitting way to do “small groups” at the seminary, as opposed to the trendy, pop-culture small group program at St. Louis. According to Rast, it can also bring to a close the last generation’s seemingly endless and foolish multiplication of felt-need seminary classes in counseling, administration, stewardship and evangelism....
Dr. Jackson was sent an email by a LCMS pastor saying that the "cariacatures of recent Ft. Wayne and St. Louis graduates" are "grossly inaccurate" and "not helpful in starting an honest conversation" about the seminaries.
I think that the conversation that Dr. Jackson wants to have is not exactly the conversation that this LCMS pastor would want to have. About whether the caricatures are accurate or not, read this:
The "Bad Seminary" Double Standard, by Pastor Hans Fiene, Feb 12, 2012:
http://thehighmidlife.blogspot.com/2010/02/bad-seminary-double-standard.html
Snippet: For whatever reason, we can always see right through the sheep's clothing fashioned by pope-ish hands. The wool that covers those on the other side, however, manages to do a much better job of fooling us. And herein lies the self-perpetuating circle of the Fort Wayne/St. Louis double standard. Confess Roman or Eastern doctrine and you must leave. Immediately. Confess Reformed or Evangelical doctrine and you can stay put until the Second Coming. And as long as this is the case, Fort Wayne will always look worse than her Show-Me-State counterpart because it's only the ones forced to exit who end up leaving a dust trail behind them for everyone else to see and lament.
But just because we can't see a track of footprints leading to Geneva doesn't mean that there isn't a whole mess of Lutheran pastors wearing Calvin's shoes. And, truth be told, I have more respect (though equal parts pity) for the guy who leaves because he can't, in good conscience, stand by his ordination vows anymore than I do for the guy who had no problem lying when he made them and continues to have no problem lying every time he gets near a Lutheran altar, font or pulpit.
To create a more accurate caricature of the recent Ft. Wayne grad, it sounds as though one would have to photoshop a smoking cigar into his mouth. Get a load of this:
http://stand-firm.blogspot.com/2012/01/well-always-have-paris-fort-wayne-2012_24.html
Snippet: I mostly kept my mouth shut, not because of my layman status, but out of fear that my teeth would be discolored from all that cigar smoke. At times I was wishing I had a pair of night vision goggles to maintain visual contact with everyone in the group. I wonder if the cigar epidemic has anything to do with a certain synodical president? Probably not.
Related posts:
DP Benke Noticed the Tuition Comparison, 24 Jan 2012:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/01/dp-benke-noticed-tuition-comparison.html
Seminary Student Loan Debt Issue on ALPB Forum, 24 Jan 2012:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/01/seminary-student-loan-debt-issue-on.html
Discussion of continuance of the SMP program/Outrageous Student Loan /Credit Card Debt levels (see especially DP Benke's and SWBohler's (LCMS Rev. S. W. Bohler) comments:
http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?topic=4272
or as one page printable:
http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=4272.0
SMP Program is “Mega-Death” for Lutheran Congregations
January 25th, 2012Post by Martin Noland
http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=10358
The Underground Railroad: LCMS Student Loan: Debt Slaves Escape to Canada, Jan 26, 2012
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/01/underground-railroad-lcms-student-loan.html
Comic: President Harrison is coming to the rescue of the indigent seminary students with his brand new alms vortex:
Comic: Dual Purpose - Thrivent Grant?
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/02/dual-purpose-thrivent-grant.html
eHow calls an MDiv a useless degree:
Useless Degree - By Itself - Just As I Said, Feb 8, 2012:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/02/useless-degree-by-itself-just-as-i-said.html
http://www.ehow.com/info_7972910_useless-college-degrees.html
snippet: Theology/Religious Studies This is probably the least career-driven of all the majors on our list. Each major, though listed as “useless” has a definitive job that goes along with it. But theology does not. This field garners you a median starting salary of $34,700 per year.
Article written by Concordia Seminary St. Louis student on the spiraling upward tuition and fees cost, and ideas on what to do about it. Also, there's a photoshop:
Walther Became a Pastor After a Four-Year Rationalistic Degree from Leipzig and Cell Group Revelations.
Now It Takes Eight Years:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/02/walther-became-pastor-after-four-year.html
related posts:
Graduate of Bethany Lutheran College taking on growing student loan debt load:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/03/student-take-on-growing-debt-loads.html
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Report on college loan delinquency rate raises alarms - latimes.com
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/03/report-on-college-loan-delinquency-rate.html
SP Harrison alludes to The Six Million Dollar Man show in his talk with Northern Illinois District in March 2012. The cartoon above does the same, of course. Also, the day before, Harrison had talked to the St. Louis seminary faculty:
http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=17612
Harrison taught the delegates with Scripture and wowed them with his warmth, charm, humor and self-deprecation. Part of the warmth and sincerity came from his many references to contemporary culture. For instance, at one point he said “We have the technology” (a reference to the seventies show “The Six Million Dollar Man”) and then quickly added, – “Actually I should say we have the theology.”
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