Tuesday, May 3, 2011

Another ELCA Congregation Gone

"Not the way we do things in North Dakota, son."



Hatton church votes to leave ELCA

St. John Lutheran Church, the congregation in Hatton, N.D., where native son, pioneer aviator and famed Arctic explorer Carl Ben Eielson was baptized and buried, voted Sunday to leave the nation’s largest Lutheran denomination and join another. By: Stephen J. Lee, Grand Forks Herald
St. John Lutheran Church, the congregation in Hatton, N.D., where native son, pioneer aviator and famed Arctic explorer Carl Ben Eielson was baptized and buried, voted Sunday to leave the nation’s largest Lutheran denomination and join another.
Steve Iverson, president of the 700-member congregation, said the vote Sunday — the second of the two required to leave — was 76 for leaving, 15 for staying, an 84 percent majority.
The 91 total voters is pretty close to the weekly attendance of 98, reported in the 2009 yearbook of the ELCA.
The congregation then immediately voted 80 to 10 — one member was in the basement and missed the vote — to join Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ, an organization formed a few years ago as an alternate to the ELCA.

Bethany Lutheran, a small rural congregation southeast of Hatton, which has been yoked in a parish with St. John, decided to remain in the ELCA and has linked up with two rural congregations, Little Forks, southwest of Hatton, and Goose River, west of Hatton, Iverson said.

Iverson said while the controversial vote in 2009 at the ELCA national assembly to allow gays and lesbians in lifelong, committed, monogamous relationships to serve as pastors was part of the reason for leaving.

That vote “has generated waves throughout the ELCA, but that’s not really the issue,” he said. “It’s just a symptom of what’s going on and it’s all part of what society is willing to accept versus what the Bible is willing to accept.”

“I do believe the majority of the congregation does believe that the ELCA is a very politically driving organization right now,” Iverson said.
St. John hasn’t had a permanent pastor for nearly two years and sort of delayed calling a new one, knowing it would probably vote to leave, Iverson said.

The congregation will rely on retired clergy in the area for pulpit supply while interviewing possible pastors, he said.

St. John posted a “potential” opening on a website with ties to the LCMC three weeks ago and already has received several applications, Iverson said.
Bishop Bill Rindy, head of the Eastern North Dakota Synod, attended Sunday’s meeting, about the third time he’s spoken to the congregation about its plans, Iverson said.
Fallout from the 2009 clergy decision has hurt the ELCA in the pocketbook. A church official reported in January that churchwide revenue for the past year was down $8 million, or 13 percent, from the previous 12-month period.
Many congregations have decreased or stopped giving to regional or national ELCA departments over disagreements with the gay and lesbian clergy vote, other issues, which coupled with the downturns in the economy the past three years have led to cutbacks at the national office in Chicago.

Hundreds of the 10,000 congregations in the ELCA have taken at least one vote on whether to leave the ELCA, officials have said. With about 4.4 million members, the ELCA is the nation’s largest Lutheran group and one of the largest Protestant churches in the United States.

At least three other congregations in the Eastern North Dakota Synod have completed two votes to leave, including Peace Lutheran in Devils Lake late last year, which will join the newly formed North American Lutheran Church, as will its pastor, the Rev. Rafe Allison, who left the ELCA roster.

St. John Lutheran gave about $30,000 per year to the ELCA in what are called “benevolences,” according to the ELCA yearbook.

The congregation got some national attention 81 years ago.

The funeral of Eielson, March 26, 1930, drew throngs estimated at 5,000 to 10,000 that filled the center of the city of 800, which is St. John Lutheran and its lot. Eielson was 32 when he died Nov. 29, 1929, piloting a plane in Alaska. He was buried in the St. John cemetery a half-mile north of Hatton.
Sunday’s vote is the start of a new thing for the congregation formed by Norwegian immigrants more than 120 years ago.

“The only bad part is there are 15 people who didn’t want to leave. I hope we will not lose any members. But overall, had we stayed in the ELCA, we would have lost a lot of members.”

Advantages of Sects - Satiety and Curiosity


"The sects have two great advantages among the masses. The one is curiosity, the other is satiety. These are the two great gateways through which the devil drives with a hay wagon." What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., ed., Ewald Plass, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959, III, p. 1268. 1 Corinthians 15.

Orthodox Lutherans Resist Sects



"I often say that there is no power or means to resist the sects except this one article of Christian righteousness. If we have lost it, we cannot resist any errors or sects."
What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., ed., Ewald Plass, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959, III, p. 1225. Galatians 2:20.

Grumpy Explains WELS Fellowship Rules.
Cancel the Free Conference



grumpy has left a new comment on your post "Lutherans Free Falling:In Denial about Work with E...":

Fellowship rules in the WELS:

Section 1: for the Laity
The Laity shall only have fellowship, spiritual and otherwise, with fellow WELSians. Attendance at lectures, entertainment venues, social gatherings not approved by the WELS is strictly forbidden.

Section 2: for Called Workers
Let it all hang out, baby. It's all gooooood.

Grumps,

WELS-ELS-LCMS budget decisions, fake evangelism, fellowship with ELCA, and doctrinal deviancies are all at odds with their posture.

Lutherans Free Falling:
In Denial about Work with ELCA, Salvation Army

WELS Mission Counselors' NEWSLETTER, April, 1992: authors are - James Woodworth, Disciples of Christ; "Net Results," March, 1991; Roger K. Guy, Disciples of Christ; Arnell P. C. Arn, American Baptist Church; Jane Easter Bahls, Presbyterian; C. Jeff Woods, freelance writer and minister; Lyle Schaller, United Methodist; Pastor Paul Calvin Kelm; Pastor Jim Mumm, WELS; Pastor Peter Panitzke, WELS; Pastor Randall Cutter and Mark Freier, WELS; First Congregational Church, Winchester, MA." Pastor Jim Radloff, editor, WELS Mission Counselors' NEWSLETTER, April, '92, 2929 Mayfair Road Milwaukee, WI, 53222.

"I often say that there is no power or means to resist the sects except this one article of Christian righteousness. If we have lost it, we cannot resist any errors or sects." What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., ed., Ewald Plass, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959, III, p. 1225. Galatians 2:20.


WELS SP Schroeder:
I have the privilege of being the presenter at this year's Emmaus Conference. The topic assigned to me is "Church Fellowship." This is a good opportunity to try to explain and clarify the WELS doctrine and practice of church fellowship, to remove misunderstandings and caricatures that others may have about our beliefs, and to provide a public witness to our doctrine and practice of church fellowship. The presidents of both LCMS and ELS will serve as "reactors" to the essay.

A free conference such as this should not be understood as formal "doctrinal discussions" between church bodies. It should not be seen as a step toward the re-establishment of fellowship between WELS and LCMS. Rather, it is an opportunity to us to present biblical truth and to identify areas where Lutherans agree and disagree.

***

GJ - The posturing never ends. All three sects have their leadership trained at Fuller Seminary (Willow Creek, Trinity in Deerfield, etc) and agree in their support of Church Growth, which has now degenerated into Emergent Church.

Exhibits A, B, and C are:

A - St. John, Ellisville and all the copycats. LCMS
B - St. Peter Cares in Freedom, Wisconsin and The CORE, which are one congregation. WELS.
C - Abiding Shepherd, Cottage Grove. ELS.

All three sects work with ELCA through Thrivent, but ELCA controls the agenda. Therefore, all three recognize the ordination of women, women in authority over men, abortion for any reason whatsoever, and gay ordination and marriage.

Mark Hanson will be the invisible presence at Emmaus.

"Brett, you brought how many copies of Luther versus the UOJ Pietists?"

Doctrinal Sloth in WELS



One Eponymous Archon (https://me.yahoo.com/oneeponymousarchon) has left a new comment on your post "Here Is a Good Quotation for the Intrepids To Igno...":

Dr. Jackson,

It would seem that perhaps one man's earnestness and zeal is another man's disinterest and sloth. Matter of fact, there is not nearly enough preaching against sloth - especially doctrinal sloth - in the WELS these days. Just my opinion. I'm only -

One Eponymous Archon

"I am so thankful I am in WELS, because we are never wrong about doctrine.
That gives me extra time to sleep."

Here Is a Good Quotation for the Intrepids To Ignore While Saying They Are "Confessional."
Ditto, Missouri, ELS, and the Micro-Mini Sects



"On the other hand, the Enthusiasts should be rebuked with great earnestness and zeal, and should in no way be tolerated in the Church of God, who imagine [dream] that God, without any Means, without the hearing of the divine Word, and without the use of the holy Sacraments, draws men to Himself, and enlightens, justifies, and saves them."
Formula of Concord, Epitome, Article II, Free Will, 80, Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 911. Tappert, p. 536. Heiser, p. 249.

Luther - On the Lost Sheep


"Thus too, if our confidence is to begin, and we become strengthened and comforted, we must well learn the voice of our Shepherd, and let all other voices go, who only lead us astray, and chase and drive us hither and thither. We must hear and grasp only that article which presents Christ to us in the most friendly and comforting manner possible. So that we can say with all confidence:

My Lord Jesus Christ is truly the only Shepherd, and I, alas, the lost sheep, which has strayed into the wilderness, and I am anxious and fearful, and would gladly be good, and have a gracious God and peace of conscience, but here I am told that He is as anxious for me as I am for Him."
Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., ed., John Nicholas Lenker, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983, IV, p. 86. Third Sunday after Trinity, Second Sermon Luke. 15:1-10.

KJV Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. 3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying, 4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? 5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. 7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Forgetting Luther and Christian Doctrine

A child-like faith has been replaced with a dishonest philosophy (UOJ) from another era,
one identical in content to ELCA's quasi-Universalism.



Bruce Church has left a new comment on your post "Bruce Church Answers ELCA Pastor (LCMS Backslider)...":

Just as looking further into the seminary credit hour/cost question paints a bit worse picture of the situation than one had before he started looking, so looking into UOJ has proved to be the same way, or so I told.

There was supposed to be a paper written about the history of UOJ before 1872 (in Europe) for the upcoming free conference, but two Latin translators backed out and a third one is taking his time, and the researcher has been tied up with other things, I'm told.

The big thing that's been holding it up though is that it is not a matter of tweaking or adding to the currently accepted history of Lutheranism to explain where UOJ came from, and the other doctrinal conflicts of the late 1800s. The Synodical Conference really is a wild branch that's been grafted into the Lutheran olive tree, so while we all know the history of the olive tree, it's the wild branch's history that's the mystery.

You can't go from rejecting as unconvincing the received wisdom of where UOJ came from (e.g., Preus's paper), and start from the proposition "we think it came out of pietism," and then arrive at a scholarly paper on where it truly came from overnight. That takes a lot of research that's not quite done yet, but the true origin has been pinned down, so I'm told. Can't wait to see it!

Anyway, I can't imagine all three synods will be left standing after this paper does finally comes out, and someone might as well start drafting amalgamation plans for the LCMS seminaries now--you know, just in case:

Free Conference:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/04/make-some-books-available-at-emmaus-syn.html

***

GJ - First, I see widespread neglect of Luther and complete apathy about what he taught. This ennui is consistent with the pronounced anti-confessionalism of all denominations and even the the Church of Rome, citadel of the Antichrist.

Secondly, the Syn Conference already has a record of denying its own history. WELS featured the Gausewitz catechism for many decades, which taught justification by faith and never mentioned UOJ. They replaced Gausewitz with Kuske's blatant UOJ Enthusiasm.

CPH still sells its 1943 catechism, which has no mention of UOJ, uses the KJV, and teaches justification by faith. Nevertheless, the Missouri Synod and its brain-washed MDivs react with alarm whenever justification by faith is taught. Somehow all three fragments have refused to see Church Growth doctrine for decades, yet they catch the scent of justification by faith from five miles away and start baying like German Shepherds.

"Bad money drives out good money."

Hold Fast To God's Word


"Perhaps you look about and think: What, could so many people be wrong all at once? Beware, and do not let their number trouble you; hold fast to God's Word; He cannot deceive you, though all mankind be false, as indeed the Scriptures say, Psalm 116:11: 'All men are liars.'" Sermons of Martin Luther, 8 vols., ed., John Nicholas Lenker, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1983, I, p. 416. Epiphany Matthew 2:1-12. Psalm 116:11.

Bruce Church Answers ELCA Pastor (LCMS Backslider) Bruce Foster



Bruce Church has left a new comment on your post "Bloated Hours, Bloated Costs at Lutheran Seminarie...":

May 3rd, 2011:

Rev. Bruce Foster has emailed Dr. Jackson that Bruce Church has got it wrong about the duration of the M. Div. degree at the LCMS seminaries. Foster said that ATS is quoting semester hours while LCMS seminaries run on a quarter hour system. Once one converts from metric to standard, so to speak, Rev. Foster alleges that what LCMS seminary requirements are not much more arduous than the ATS minimum requirement for an accredited M Div degree.

First, I should say that even if all that were true, and none of it is, why prescind the data about the overall M Div degree cost? That would not be affected by any credit hour conversion error. An M Div at the LCMS seminaries is the 9th and 11th most pricey M Div in all of N America, and far more pricey than other Lutheran seminaries.

Second, the LCMS M Div program is a marathon four-year program, yet enough students find it so strenuous that they go five years, or take courses during two or three summers. One can Google and see that most M Div programs are designed as two- or three-year programs, and the person gets a certification (e.g., CPE). If a program takes four or five years, the person graduates with two degrees, aka joint-, dual-, or double-degrees, and a certification.

The truth is that the ATS minimum requirement for a M Div is two years of academic work totaling 48 semester hours, which converts to 72 quarter hours (links below), since one semester hour equals about 1.5 quarter hours. A credit is synonymous with hour, BTW.

Ft. Wayne's requirement of 137 quarter hours equal 91.33 semester hours, and St. Louis' required 139 quarter hours equal 92.67 semester hours. So no matter how it is sliced and diced, LCMS seminaries require nearly twice what the ATS requires for an accredited M Div degree.

Cont'd...
Rev. Foster also upheld the worth of a LCMS M Div against Dr. Jackson's estimation of it. Dr. Jackson is comparing the degree based on several standards, among them: academic value in the divinity world, value among Lutherans generally, and value in the business world. Since 95% of Lutherans are non-Waltherian, any Waltherian degree would be suspect to most Lutheran church bodies. I suspect a M Div isn't even worth one year in business school.

The academic value of the LCMS M Div is not that much greater than a degree from many seminaries that cost a third less, or require a year less study, and perhaps a shorter internship if that's required at all.

Most seminaries require far fewer credit hours, and are much less expensive. One outlier is Concordia Seminary in St. Catharines which is the least expensive accredited Lutheran seminary but requires more quarter hours than the rest: 111 semester hours (166.5 quarter hours). However, it must not be much harder than the LCMS seminaries since it has the same four-year program with the third year being vicarage.

ATS: Addressing issues of degree duration
http://www.ats.edu/accrediting/usefulinfo/pages/suggestionsforwritersofreports.aspx
excerpt: Thus, a two-year master’s program would consist of at least 48 semester hours.

Semester Hours Vs. Quarter Hours
http://www.ehow.com/about_5372585_semester-hours-vs-quarter-hours.html

Semester Hour to Quarter Hour Conversion Tables:
http://www.auburn.edu/semesters/conversion.html

Program Requirements - M. Div.
Successful completion of 111 semester hours
http://www.brocku.ca/concordiaseminary/academics.php

***

GJ - ELCA Pastor Bruce Foster wrote this:

Dear Dr. Jackson

I have never read Atlas Shrugged although I have read enough about the book in other contexts that I could probably write a pretty good book report on it (I have read Ayn Rand's philosophical works... no thank you. Her atheism is the least of her problems). I certainly know all the slogans from the book including the dramatic question, "Who is John Gault?" (sic - Galt)

I mention all this simply as an introduction to my question  "Who is Bruce Church?"  You label him "The Rev. Bruce Church" but I have not been able to find him under WELS or LCMS lists of pastors. I assume he is not an ELCA pastor. There is a Bruce Church listed as a pastor in North Carolina but his church is a "Community Church,"  the kind that you regularly condemn so I assume that's not him.

Of course, a perfectly good response to my question would be, "Why do you care?" That answer is this. The Rev. Church has posted a number of times condemnations of LCMS for their bloated requirements for an MDiv. He compares the 72 hours required by the ATS and the 137 hours of St. Louis and Fort Wayne. He goes on to impute all kinds of evil motives to this bloating. What confuses me, however, is this. ATS is quoting semester hours. St. Louis is on a quarter system. 72 semester hours converts into 108 quarter hours. Furthermore St Louis gives 18 hours credit for vicarage. The net difference then between ATS minimum requirement and St Louis is 11 quarter hours over three years or one course extra a year. And please note that ATS numbers and St. Louis numbers without that extra course work out to be 12 credit hours a term/semester, hardly a big stretch. 

These requirements at St. Louis have been in effect for at least 41 years since they were the requirements when I was there. As a matter of fact back then the problem was that students were taking too many credits and finishing early. I found many interesting courses and always took 15 credits per term. 

If you would be so kind as to give me Bruce Church's email address I would be happy to explore this issue with him directly. As it stands now, however, he is well hidden on the internet and I have not been able to find him. 

Bruce Foster

PS - As for your comments about how useless an MDiv from St. Louis is, please contact James Voelz or Andrew Bartelt , two friends of mine who are senior members of the faculty. Somehow they got each a Ph.D. from Cambridge University (Voelz, advisor, GWH Lampe editor of the Patristic Greek Lexicon) and the University of Michigan( Bartelt, advisor David Noel Freedman editor Anchor Bible Series) with nothing more than a St. Louis MDiv before. 

Foster likes to see his own words in print, at least in a place where more than his family members and creditors read them.

He has offered two examples of men who were employable once they got real degrees - Voelz and Bartelt. In the academic world and professional world, an MDiv is worthless. So is a DMin, which can also be bought from the two LCMS seminaries.

A top divinity school (independent of denominational politics) can give an MDiv with credibility simply because the school's mission is not to generate the adoration of Holy Mother Synod. At independent schools the student can voice their own opinions without worrying about being ash-canned for one wrong comment, stuck with a pile of debt and no job prospects from it.

One year, when plagiarist John Johnson was president of Our Lady of Sorrows, St. Louis, two students had some contact with Pastor Herman Otten. Both of them were pushed out of the call process, with no appeal or make-up allowed. The men were not hair-on-fire radicals, just people who wanted to see both sides of an issue.

Bruce Church has made a good case for calling the LCMS system fraudulent and deceptive, a debt bubble ready to pop.

In St. Louis, how do you get rid of a recent Concordia graduate on your doorstep? Answer - give him a tip and take the pizza.

Many Lutheran schools will close or merge (a nice way to close) in the next few years.

Ba-zing.