Daniel Gorman on WELS

The DP got rid of St. John in Milwaukee.
WELS followed the same pattern with the Protest'ants,
expelling them arbitrarily.

 Daniel Gorman said...

The allegations are more credible because this is not first time the AzCa District has suspended a sitting pastor and asked his congregation to rescind his call without ever publicly revealing the reason for his suspension. Six years ago, the Arizona-California District of WELS suspended Pastor Berg and rescinded fellowship with his church. The nominal cause of Pastor Berg's suspension was finally revealed publicly in December 2010 in the blog "Intrepid Lutherans":

"Daniel,

I am very familiar with Father Berg's case. I was a good friend of his while he was in WELS, and still consider myself such today.

If ever there was a case that needed to be overturned, his was it, in my opinion. I encouraged him to appeal, but he decided not to.

A couple of corrections to your points, however:

- While it is true that the "trial" was held in "secret" so to speak, others besides Fr. Berg and the officials were present, at least as I understand it. Still, I felt strongly at the time, and still do, that the entire matter should have been conducted at an open conference, held for this purpose only.

- There was a reason given. Fr. Berg was found not to be in agreement with the WELS on the doctrine of Church & Ministry. However, I do not believe this was or is the case, nor to I believe this was the real reason for his suspension from the WELS. There was much more involved, most of it - interestingly enough for we who run Intrepid Lutherans, revolving around the "Motley Magpie."

- The "judgment" was officially made by the AZ-CA District Presidium, albeit strongly encouraged by then DP Janke. All three men bear responsibility for this action, as does the entire District and the synod as well.

This is but one of the many "warts" on the WELS nose, of which there are many in every church body. It would probably not be possible to go back and deal with them all, but some, such as this one, should perhaps be looked at again at some point in the near future. Again, in my opinion.

Pastor Spencer"

Question: Is the WELS Circuit Pastor Spencer referenced in the lawyers' letter the same Pastor Spencer who lamented WELS's handling of the Berg affair?

The letters paint a very damning picture of an AzCa District that lords it over its holy churches. Are the two letters bogus or factually inaccurate? If so, why hasn't the AzCa District posted a rebuttal on its public website?

Did the AzCa District suspend a sitting WELS pastor and ask his churches to rescind their holy call to him because he failed to grow his churches? Did a circuit of the AzCa District hire a lawyer to threaten churches with the loss of their tax exemption? These are questions that the AzCa District must answer publicly!

July 28, 2012 1:35 PM

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Daniel Gorman said...

The breaking of church fellowship is never a private affair. It is of vital interest to all Christians. I have requested that WELS give a public accounting of the Poetter suspension and that WELS publicly address the issues raised by the two letters posted on Rev. Jackson's blog.

WELS never publicly released the reason for Pastor Berg's suspension even though a public accounting was requested on WELS Q&A. Whatever information is conveyed by WELS in a private e-mail may not be publicly disclosed without WELS's permission. I told WELS I wanted a public response or none at all. If WELS does provide a public response, I will post a link.

July 28, 2012 9:36 PM

SP Schroeder to Pastor Nathan Bickel

Ichabod - Am I the Loose Canon? Or Is WELS the unrepentant Loose [Universalism] Canon? [I think so]

This (past) week I've received two emails from WELS president Rev. Mark Schroeder. I gain the impression that he is taking exception to my public remarks here on Ichabod.  But, how could that be since [I understand] WELS has apparently cursed Ichabod and spreads that same anathema to whomever WELS pastor or member should access your website! Perhaps, though, President Schroeder arbitrarily and capriciously, in universalism fashion, absolved himself from such a bureaucratic pronouncement ban.

The SP Schroeder First Email:

The first email was of a vague and general nature. Basically, it stated that I should go to the horse's mouth if I have “concerns” or “criticisms" of the WELS presidential leadership and the synod's doctrinal stance. Also, he seemed to be speaking for my congregation's pastor, [who has basically shunned me] - saying that if I had any "questions" or “concerns” of “his preaching” or “other actions” that I should speak in private with him. And, Rev. Mark Schroeder ended the email with him urging me to phone him.

My Email Response:

I then responded with the following email follow-up:

Rev. President Mark Schroeder,

I found your recent email to me [yesterday - found, below] to be of a general nature. Could you spell out that which (apparently) concerns you? Please be specific.

Sincerely,

Nathan M. Bickel - emeritus pastor

SP Schroeder's 2nd Email Reply [Response] to my sole email:

So, I received in my email box the synodical president's reply. And, that too, was of a general nature. This time again, he urged me to phone him. He still was unspecific and vague, but, he did mention that I have "voiced criticisms and concerns" about him, ["synodical 'leaders'"]. Also, that I had "voiced criticisms and concerns" about "synodical matters (including doctrine)." He then urged me to call him so that if I would critically speak anymore in public, that I would have some "factual information." [Aka - the official synodical party line] He then concocted an analogy of a church member directly speaking to his pastor of any concerns and applied that to himself and me, as a synodical member.

Ichabod - You just published my comment about how it is a one way street with WELS synodical bureaucratic officials and their lock-in-step pastors. Here, is the link for anyone to read:

“Some People Appreciate the News:”

http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/07/some-peole-appreciate-news.html

I’m convinced that WELS bureaucracy and bow down pastors feel free to disseminate their false doctrine and encourage it in public. But, woe to any peon of synod [membership] who publicly mentions what is being preached and taught by them in public. To synod officials and to certain synod pastors, it is a one-way street. They want their cake; and they want to eat it too. They want the liberty of publicly teaching, preaching, and promulgating their universal objective justification anti-Scriptural; anti-Confessions; and anti-Lutheran false doctrine. But, woe to anyone who stands in their way calling them to account. That person is then anathema and is to be taken in private and slapped up by their secretive closed door work-over.

No - Ichabod, I am not foolish enough to be taken to the WELS bureaucratic shed and forced to whip myself, each time by shouting at myself: "Bad! Nathan!” “Bad! Nathan!” I will not allow anyone from WELS to scold or hound me - especially when those with whom I highlighted, have not admitted and repented of the errors of their universalism false teaching ways!

Rather, than deal with what I've called attention [to] on Ichabod, I gain the impression that WELS (as represented by its synodical president) isn't repentant of its doctrinal error. No, - instead I will be chosen to be a (smoke-screen) boogeyman for them to exploit and stereotype as a loose canon, - all the while WELS leadership, its publications and (certain) pastors continue spreading false teaching contrary to Scripture; the Book of Concord and Luther; - all contrary to the clear teaching of Holy Writ which concisely states that a human soul is justified by God's grace through faith! [Ephesians 2:8-9] Instead, sadly, they make Christ’s Atonement to be everything and scratch [out] the Holy Spirit’s beginning to end work in the human soul’s regenerating process. [John 3:1-21 in context] Then, as a fall-out result, the false teaching brings into the church all sorts of negative and destructive implications:

"UOJ Questions Answered: Enthusiasm Breeds Enthusiasm: Church Growth and Pentecostal:"

http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/07/uoj-questions-answered-enthusiasm.html

Finally -

Just to make it easier for the web reader; - they [you] may access some of my published articles here on Ichabod by typing in my name in the search box. Here, following, is an example where I offer 3 specific occasions at my Bethel Lutheran Bay County, Michigan WELS congregation, the false teaching of universal objective justification. I could provide some other examples, but why make this article any longer?

"Pastor Nathan Bickel on UOJ in WELS. Aaron Frey Still Preaching in WELS. How Far Will He Go?”

http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/07/pastor-nathan-bickel-on-uoj-in-wels.html

Also:

"Pastor Nathan Bickel on UOJ:"

http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/07/pastor-nathan-bickel-on-uoj.html

In conclusion, there are many articles and comments here on Ichabod [other than my own] which are rich in value. Thanks, again, Ichabod and those commenting for trumpeting the error of UOJ - universal objective justification!

Nathan M. Bickel – emeritus pastor

www.thechristianmessage.org

www.moralmatters.org

P.S. --  A note to those who may feel intimidated by a pastor, teacher or bureaucratic church official over your voiced concern of false teaching:

Never allow someone to defraud [cheat] you of your opinion when you have in good conscience voiced that concern, based upon the teaching of Scripture. And, beware of those who “say” they subscribe to Scripture and the church’s confessions. Listen closely to what they preach and teach; and watch what they practice and promulgate.

More Hilarity From Team Glende. He Should Stick to Groeschel and Stanley

Naughty or nice?
The CORE's new entertainment center.
DJ not included.

Gregory L. Jackson in his blog, The Glory Has Departed, continues to spread his error regarding justification.

Followers of Jackson seem to forget that Greg came from the LCA, now a part of the ELCA which accepts gay clergy. He received his theological education at Yale (a liberal, Bible-denying school) and Notre Dame (the famous Roman Catholic Jesuit school). Jackson really cannot boast about his theological education, because he wasn't trained as a confessional Lutheran. [GJ - No kidding. I spent a semester at The Sausage Factory - almost ruined me.]

Jackson continues to regurgitate the errors of R.C.H. Lenski and the old Ohio Synod (a predecessor church body of the ELCA). If Jackson's followers swallow everything this false prophet publishes on the web, they will eventually put their trust in themselves and their own faith for salvation, and not Christ and his vicarious satisfaction.

Not one of my professors taught this.
Glende, Ski, Parlow, Bishop Katy and other WELS workers
eagerly worshiped with Stanley, a closeted Babtist.

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW:

WHO WENT THAT YOU MIGHT KNOW?

Pastor Ski - St. Marcus - Milwaukee

Pastor John Parlow - St. Mark - Depere

Pastor Jim Buske - Lighthouse Youth Center - Milwaukee

HOW LONG WERE WE THERE?

May 3rd - May 7th

WHERE WAS THE CONFERENCE?

North Point Church, Alpharetta, GA

What is Drive ’08?  That’s a great question.  Drive is a two day conference for church leaders.  During these two days church leaders from the three North Point campuses will share what they have learned over the last twelve years about creating and maintaining awesome ministry environments.  The entire conference has been designed around questions from churches all over the world.  

Over the two days Andy Stanley (Lead Pastor at North Point) will address the attendees in three main sessions.  There will be five break-out sessions that will revolve around questions asked by the attendees.  These sessions allow those in attendance to get pretty specific on certain areas of ministry as well as get great feedback.  

I invite you to check out my blog while I’m gone.  I’ll try to  update the blog daily and share what I’ve learned.  Please feel free to share your comments.

I’ll see you all when I get back!

The final Main Session with Andy Stanley was just phenomenal.  We began with awesome worship.   

Is that Andy Stanley, the closeted Babtist, with Ski, the closeted Lutheran?
They worshiped together, so they are in fellowship.

***

GJ - Where can I start with the boatload of ignorance on Glende's blog?

• Glende grew up in an old ALC congregation - open communion, Masonic Lodge, Church Growth, and a known adulterer serving as a Church Growth expert.
• I left the LCA and was never a part of ELCA. In fact, I published against the merger when WELS was busy working with the LCA and ALC. WELS still is a partner with ELCA.
• WELS has homosexual and bi-sexual pastors. Ask SP Schroeder. He is "helpless" to do anything about it. Write a letter.
• Glende cannot grasp what academic studies are, so why bother informing him?
• Notre Dame never has been Jesuit. Quoting Bugs Bunny, "What a maroon!"
• Glende is one with WELS in denying justification by faith. The Luther quotes enrage him because he hates the Word of God. 

UOJ Is Bad for Everyone - Except the False Teachers Who Live From It

Like his pal Valleskey, Bivens teach Church Growth and UOJ.
Both admitted going to Fuller Seminary; both denied going to Fuller Seminary  -
a notoriously liberal training school.

AC V has left a new comment on your post "UOJ Questions Answered: Enthusiasm Breeds Enthusia...":

If you want a PRACTICAL application of the dangers of UOJ, read this the following article, "Making Peace with a Monster" and look for this:

"Some people may say the Colorado shooting victims need to learn how to forgive the gunman to move on.

Franscell doesn't buy that. The survivors who fared the best, he found, didn't grant pardons.

'They don't absolve their would-be killers and they haven't stopped crying, even decades later,' he says."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/26/us/mass-murder-survivors/index.html?hpt=hp_c1

Granting a "pardon" to one who has sinned and is not repentant does not help the sinner either.

But that's not what UOJ WELS teaches. Compare and contrast these passages from Scripture and the Confessions with what Seminary professor Forrest Bivens wrote in the April issue of the WELS Forward in Christ:

Scripture:

If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld. - John 20:23

For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret... - 2 Corinthians 7:10

Confessions:

And Is. 28:21: The Lord shall be wrath that He may do His work, His strange work, and bring to pass His act, His strange act. He calls it the strange work of the Lord when He terrifies, because to quicken and console is God's own work. [Other works, as, to terrify and to kill, are not God's own works, for God only quickens.] But He terrifies, he says, for this reason, namely, that there may be a place for consolation and quickening, because hearts that are secure and do not feel the wrath of God loathe consolation. In this manner Scripture is accustomed to join these two, the terrors and the consolation, in order to teach that in repentance there are these chief members, contrition, and faith that consoles and justifies. Neither do we see how the nature of repentance can be presented more clearly and simply. [We know with certainty that God thus works in His Christians, in the Church.)

For the two chief works of God in men are these, to terrify, and to justify and quicken those who have been terrified. Into these two works all Scripture has been distributed. The one part is the Law, which shows, reproves, and condemns sins. The other part is the Gospel, i.e., the promise of grace bestowed in Christ... - Defense of the Augsburg Confession, XII:51-53, Of Repentance.

Now, what does WELS teach? Answer, Forrest Bivens, April Forward in Christ:

Especially to those who have wronged us yet have given no evidence of contrition before God or reliance on Jesus as their sin-bearer, we may say: 'I fully and freely forgive you, sinner to sinner.... You have my forgiveness, given cheerfully in love.' Our responsibility is to forgive others fully, unconditionally." (p.9)

***

GJ - Has anyone seen a more vindictive and unforgiving bunch than the UOJ Stormtroopers? The three characters above were glad to kick out a long-time faithful member for asking questions.

WELS and the ELS think nothing about threatening to expel congregations for disagreeing with them.

Some People Appreciate the News

Historic St. John Lutheran Church, Milwaukee.
The mother church of WELS was kicked out out of the synod
by a vindictive Church Growth DP.

Daryl Meyer said...

Well, the other Ichabod might be a kook, but I wouldn't have found out about yesterday's concert had it not been posted on his blog. I still have goose bumps from singing the bass line to TLH 467 with all 2325 pipes blasting. What a wonderful service!

Lutheran history - and Milwaukee history.

If I had real estate like this available, I would make it the flagship,
not the leper.

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Pastor emeritus Nathan Bickel has left a new comment on your post "Glende Rouses Himself about a Supposed Dispute, Wh...":

Ichabod -

You said under the one [altar] pic:

"Historic St. John Lutheran Church, Milwaukee. The mother church of WELS was kicked out out of the synod by a vindictive Church Growth DP."

When I read your captioned words under the pic, I thought of the following:

I think that church bureaucracy does not consider itself vindictive for any of its words and / or actions towards member churches and WELS members. But, I think that when any of its bureaucracy and kowtowing pastors are cited as promulgating public teaching and preaching contrary to the Scriptures and the Lutheran Confessions, - those individuals, (doing the citing) providing specific examples, are deemed (by church bureaucracy), [as] unloving and intolerant for the public rebuke.

It is further my perception that the church bureaucracy and those who dutifully follow in line, consider themselves as the pure and holy ones and that all who may disagree, (with them) are considered, the erring and unloving. So, then, the modus operandi is to call those who disagree, aside; lean on them and attempt to intimidate them with church bureaucracy’s version of the 8th Commandment and meaning thereof. And, all in the process, it is easily overlooked that unscriptural public preaching and teaching, often merits public notice and rebuke.

Furthermore, to address the old argument that is often offered: "Why don't you personally go and talk to that individual who you assert is errantly preaching and teaching?" So, - how does one effectively communicate such, when errant teaching and preaching has continued for some time and when the one preaching and teaching cannot be reached [is not hearing and / or has written one off]? How long does one wait and be patient, while he witnesses the proliferation of public errant [unscriptural] preaching and teaching within one’s particular Christian congregation?

Finally, there are no easy answers. And it is a simplistic solution to say that one is to privately speak with an individual or individuals who will then likely tell him, that he is either half baked; has inaccurate information; or that he is without theological understanding; while they, in the same breath, will tell that person that they subscribe to the same Scripture and Confessions [while at the same time] they ignore that subscription with their continued errant practice of teaching and preaching.

Frankly, I would hope and pray that more Lutheran church members, - (and, also, those of other Christian denominations) would feel freer to publicly rebuke those who preach and teach contrary to Scripture. Those who continue to errantly do so should not be politely afforded the darkness covering of anonymity and behind the scenes conversations, (with those citing them) while they continue to publicly teach and preach the errant Word.

Nathan M. Bickel - Bay City, MI

www.thechristianmessage.org

www.moralmatters.org 

Glende Rouses Himself about a Supposed Dispute, Which He Has Publicized

Glende's anonymous blog called attention to the Arizona situation, where two congregations are being kicked out of the synod for standing by their pastor - and daring to disagree with the officials.

I posted a "supposed" letter about a "supposed" dispute, so why the fuss? 

People use Ichabod to publish the news. If the documents are fake or Photoshopped, the named writers (unlike the cowering blog writer) can disavow them. No one has.

Here is the original post.

DP John Seifert kicked Prince of Peace out of WELS because they supported their ecumenical pastor. I said at the time that they should have replied, "We are no more ecumenical than WELS."

One WELS pastor conceded that if standards were upheld for all the pastors, half of them would be gone. That would be scary for the entire Fox Valley circuit, where plagiarism is common and defended by the DP.

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Daniel Gorman said...

The suspension of St. Paul's pastor from the WELS is a matter of public record. However, contrary to LC, Ten Commandments, 279-286, the Az-Ca District of WELS has not revealed the evidence against Pr. Poetter and the reason for the breach in fellowship.

The two letters published by Rev. Jackson are of vital interest to all Christians. The Chairman of St. Paul addresses his letter "To All Concerned Individuals". Shouldn't we all be concerned when a powerful WELS district lords it over a small church in Arizona (AC, XXVIII, 76)?

***

GJ - The law firm's letter is revealing.

Luther's Great Commentary on Galatians - New Graphics