Why Is SP Schroeder Contacting Nathan Bickel - When WELS Has a GLTBQ Discussion Board on Facebook?

Here are the two posts related to the letter:

1. SP Schroeder to Pastor Nathan Bickel

2. Open Letter to SP Schroeder

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "SP Schroeder to Pastor Nathan Bickel":

Well said Rev. Bickel.

Intimidation is a hallmark of those who are not led by the Holy Ghost.

SP Schroeder remembers standing at the end of the hallway during the 2012 Emmaus conference while everyone was out to lunch, fiddling with his phone and staring at me while I stood behind my Justification by Faith table patiently waiting for the participants to return. Soon after their return they sent a pastor to tell me to stop talking to the attendees.

I find it interesting that the current WELS SP would urged you to call him so that if you would critically speak anymore in public, that you would have some "factual information." - all while denying you that same factual information by refusing to write a concise email with clear specifics about his concerns.

Very similar to DP hireling Pastor Jon Buchholz who in his 2005 UOJ Convention essay stated that heresy was departing from Scripture and then immediately admitting to departing from Scripture in his trifecta defense of the false gospel of UOJ which drives and energizes the rampant apostacy in the Lutheran [self sic] Synods.

Concordist and faithful servant to Scripture, Aegidius Hunnius, was hired specifically to renounce Calvanism and subsequent false teachings and who thoroughly, clearly and without reservation condemned Samuel Huber's UOJ which is exactly the same as the false gospel of UOJ that Schroeder and Buchholz violently force the laity to gorge upon by condemning and withholding Christ's pure Gospel and chief article of Christian doctrine - One Justification solely by Faith Alone.

(http://www.amazon.com/Theses-Opposed-Huberianism-Lutheran-Justification/dp/1475186541/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1343962176&sr=8-1&keywords=hunnius)

Certainly their condemnation is deserved and the result is for them to see the Synod they were given to lead crumble into abject apostasy as it continues to finance Thrivents abortion practices, the New Age Religion and all manner of occult doctrines.

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Pastor emeritus Nathan Bickel has left a new comment on your post "Why Is SP Schroeder Contacting Nathan Bickel When ...":

Brett Meyer -

Thank you for your personal witnessed account. I don't doubt in the least how there was an attempted intimidation as you seem to describe. I have no time or tolerance for that type of intimidation [either]. You well said:

>>>>>>>> I find it interesting that the current WELS SP would urged you to call him so that if you would critically speak anymore in public, that you would have some "factual information," - all while denying you that same factual information by refusing to write a concise email with clear specifics about his concerns. <<<<<<<<<<

That stated goal of "factual information," raised red flags with me. It smacked of the Edgar Allen Poe's "The Black Cat," over-kill overture. If someone is so intent to deliver me the [supposed] Gospel truth, then why wouldn't that somebody be willing to specifically point out where I supposedly have gotten it wrong? It was all obviously an attempted intimidation ploy. That's what church hierarchy does best when it desires to cruise right over the real issues and ignore them.

The reality is - and, I indicated it in my open letter; Rev. SP Schroeder has some big fish to fry. Those "big fish" are the rampant preaching, teaching and practice of the false doctrine of universal objective justification that is promulgated widespread in the Christian world - and, in his small corner of it, - WELS. To continue to deny that and allow the preaching of synod's pastors to molest the Scripture's teaching of the Atonement, making it out to be an end all, and scratching [out] the Holy Spirit's role in the process, of creating individual faith and cultivating that faith to the soul's end, - that, all, is deplorable. There is simply no excuse to deny what is going on. Ichabod has been pounding this UOJ issue. And, WELS leaders and SP Schroeder can't see it? Are their minds living in some distant alien planets?

Finally, it would be refreshing to witness more WELS members rise up and object to this universalism false teaching. It is a contaminating force. It needs to be met head-on. Thank the good Lord for Ichabod! May God have mercy as Lord only knows how many WELS members are negatively affected and are led to believe that their faith does not matter - but, only what mother synod proclaims through its universalism pastors!

Nathan M. Bickel

www.thechristianmessage.org

www.moralmatters.org 

Jack Schaap « Half a bridge. Continuing the Tainted Work of His Father-in-Law Jack Hyles

Jack Schaap « Half a bridge:

"Before I proceed let me note the following:

Schaap is Jack Hyles’s son-in-law; Hyles died in 2001 and was survived by sons who were or had been pastors.

Similar but not identical charges had been made against Hyles by Voyle Glover; his is the book Kiesling refers to in the linked article.

Hyles and his sons had been accused of adultery and of having third parties procure and support women for them. It was not clear to me when I last looked at the details that these charges could be substantiated; at one point there were links to them from the Wikipedia entry on Hyles, but that has since been cleaned up to reflect a more neutral editorial voice."

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Statement on Jack Schaap and the King James Bible Issue

Regular application of Buch's Bees ointment
will cure chapped hides
and allow the Emergent Church and the NNIV to  seem inspired.

Statement on Jack Schaap and the King James Bible Issue:


Click here for THE TRUTH on the King James Bible issue

~ The Changing Ministry of Jack Schaap ~ 

When a man messes with The Book, God messes with his mind.

In this video, Jack Schaap promotes and praises a rap and dancing "Emerging Church" during Pastors' School 2010: 

'via Blog this'

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GJ - If you look at the way the Shrinkers took over the Fundamentalist congregations, through craft and stealth and shameless lying, the parallels to the SynConference will be obvious. The tactics are the same because they were taught at the same Synagogue of Satan - Fuller Seminary.

Jack Schaap’s Fall and the Future of the IFB Movement :: Fundamentally Reformed

Jack Schaap’s Fall and the Future of the IFB Movement :: Fundamentally Reformed:

Jack Schaap’s Fall and the Future of the IFB Movement

Posted by Bob Hayton on

August 1st, 2012

Another Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) leader is dismissed amid a national scandal. First Baptist Church of Hammond Indiana, which boasts the world’s largest Sunday School and membership of 15,000, issued the following press release yesterday:

At this time, we deeply regret the need to announce that First Baptist Church has dismissed our pastor, Dr. Jack Schaap, due to a sin that has caused him to forfeit his right to be our pastor. First Baptist Church is in full cooperation with our local authorities in their investigation of this matter. Our church grieves over the need to take this action and the impact it will have on our people.

We ask that everyone pray for the families involved and pray that the situation will be handled in a Christ honoring manner. We look forward to the days ahead as we continue to service the needs of our surrounding community and the Chicago area.

For any media-related questions, please contact First Baptist Church spokesman, Eddie Wilson at (219) 945-6475.

What has come out in various media reports so far is that Schaap had an affair with a sixteen year old girl. The deacons of the church found out, and reported the matter to the authorities. While the church thinks nothing criminal has happened, the police are investigating a crime. The age of consent in Illinois is 18 and some of the dalliances allegedly happened in Illinois and Michigan. Additional details have been shared on Facebook and StuffFundiesLike.com, alleging that a picture of Schaap in a compromising situation with this girl was found on his cell phone which a deacon had found lying around somewhere. And this sonds correct since the church moved so swiftly in this case. In any case, the police have also brought in the FBI and the story is attracting a large media presence. More details will eventually emerge, I’m sure.

Some are saying “I told you so.” See the comments here on Sharper Iron. I do think we should pray for First Baptist and for Schaap’s wife, Cindy, especially. Schaap was known for his edgy statements about sex and intimacy and how this describes the union we have with Christ (see here and here). Maybe we should have expected that this day would come.

But the lessons to be learned from Schaap’s fall are wider than his own issues. Schaap was “king on the mountain” in his arena in fundamentalism. Even though he didn’t share the singular adulation that his father-in-law, Jack Hyles, did from a large segment of independent fundamental Baptists, he nevertheless controlled his church and ministry with a similar sense of bravado and hubris. And this is one of the biggest problems I have with many IFBs. Authoritarianism. Pastors living as “the Untouchables” among the peons of their church. The Holy “Man of Gawd” mentality, that we cannot “touch the Lord’s Annointed.” All of this sets up these men for big falls. At least when Schaap fell, he didn’t hand out “100% for Jack” buttons like his father-in-law did.

We have seen high profile scandals emerge lately from all across the IFB movement (and some have been keeping count). I suppose it is fair to point out that the Roman Catholics and even the Southern Baptists (as fundamentalist leader Bob Gray points out) have had their share of molestation cases. But as it is with the Catholics, in the IFB movement, there is a level of authoritarianism built into the very structure of the movement. And openness and accountability do not pervade the structures of the movement.

Over the years, I’ve covered several of the scandals here: ABC News 20/20 report on Chuck Phelps and CNN’s report on Fairhaven and Hephzibah House, are the newest and most high profile cases. But when an evangelist that I knew during my time in a IFB college (Rodney Stewart) fell, I had some specific thoughts about why pastor’s fall. Those thoughts are worth reading again. We all do need to take care lest we ourselves fall.

But to conclude this post, if the IFB movement is to have any future worth mentioning, they are going to have to move toward an elder-rule, accountability-focused leadership style. May Jack Schaap’s fall encourage more IFB churches to change. And I hope that for the first time in nearly 50 years, First Baptist of Hammond doesn’t host a national pastor’s school. Instead may they seek God’s Word for counsel and meditate on how they can protect their church from this kind of scandal and all the harm it does to everyone in the congregation.

CLARIFICATION: I mean “mutual-leadership by a plurality of elders rather than only a “elder-rule” leadership. I believe elders can operate effectively in a congregational style church (such as was the norm with historic Baptists in America), and that there can even be a “first among equals”. My main point is that too many IFB churches have an “untouchable” pastor who is “the Lord’s Anointed”, and he stands above the fray and above any kind of meaningful accountability.

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Emotional Abuse and Your Faith: Jack Schaap's domino effect, and a note of support for survivors

Emotional Abuse and Your Faith: Jack Schaap's domino effect, and a note of support for survivors:

The fighting has already started!

The fighting over the age of the girl has already started.  The age of this young adult should only matter to the justice system, and should not have any bearing to those lifes Jack Schaap’s touched.   I’m sure some will use the excuse of her legal age presently to downplay the fact even at age 18?  You are still messing with a child.  They would still call her a child after all if this had not happened.  Its no different now.

Some news stories thus far have stated that this act of adultery and/or sexual abuse started when she was 16 or 17 years of age.  The FBI has stepped into it due to the fact he may have crossed state lines with her.  Some IBF boards are stating that Jack Schaap’s secretary drove her there.   It seems that doesn’t make a hill of beans difference at this point.  They fired the secretary as well.  We may never really know what happened completely.

Personally, from my viewpoint?  The real sicko’s are the ones that have already started to blame the girl in question.  When you are that young you don’t know much about the world yet, and especially within the faith bubble.  You have not figured out how to handle the contradicting messages of how men are the authorities, and how you can escape with a ‘no’ while keeping face within your faith community.  Its hard for adults after all even in less serious circumstances!  

Most young adults – experienced in the world or not – have a hard time grappling with circumstances such as these.    Its sad that some would rather live in denial of this known fact when they were dealing with this type of sin, and they feel its time to circle the wagons against the world.  It shows the foundation is not very solid.  Adults are to guide young people for a reason, and when they ignore those reasons when it gets too tough?  When its easier to blame the youth?  Its sad that they choose childish ways, and not be the mature adults they say they are.

In a way…  Their maturity level isn’t much different from the child’s is it?  Their age is the only difference when it comes to being able to throw that blame somewhere else so they don’t have to deal with it.  Its called blame shifting.  I think they are just scared, and obviously unfit. 

I’m sure Jack Schaap’s wife and family are reeling about now.  This ton of bricks just came down on their world, and I’m sure they felt they were immune from it.  They had Jack preaching against this type of evil, and placed himself in the position of the ‘go to man’ if you have any questions, issues, or struggle with it.  His wife already had plenty of hurt from the past when her own father had his own scandal, and how she has another one up closer and more personal.  

Personal feelings aside for Jack Schaap?  I have prayed for all of them.  I will admit at first it was only his family, and his church family.  God kept nudging me all day yesterday, and I finally just agreed with him!  (giggles) Funny how that happens?!  I finally prayed for everyone as I know God would wish me too.

Huge Concern about David Gibbs Request

I have a huge concern over the meeting last night at their church.  David Gibbs is the lawyer the church asked to come and speak.  He basically is asking if other victims are present he wants them to come to him at this time.  Some have mentioned they are getting phone calls from the church reminding them of this request.  He is the church’s lawyer and not their counselor.  Red Flags started to fly when I read his quotes from the newspapers.

The police are the first ones that need to be notified, and not David Gibbs.  His first loyalty due to his profession would be to his client – the church.  He was brought there to protect the church.  He isn’t there to protect the victims.  That is not his first priority.  I have a link at the end of the post that explains more of why he isn’t a good ‘go to’ person, and its from the viewpoint of a legal eagle not associated with this scandal. 

Mr. Gibbs is the same lawyer that stood by Chuck Phelps during the Tina Anderson trial.  He was there to protect the church then as well.  He wasn’t there to protect Ernie Willis or Tina Anderson.  He wanted to be there in case of trouble for Pastor Phelps, or for Trinity Baptist.

No doubt the church has some legal concerns.  That is why he is there.  I would not recommend victims go to him, because he is legally obligated to be representing his client first and foremost.  That is how the profession works.

'via Blog this'

Jack Schaap Confesses To Sexual Relationship With Teen After Firing From Megachurch. Room for Him in WELS

Jack Schaap would be promoted as a Church Growth expert in WELS,
and the officials would arrange another divine call for him,
while denying their involvement.

Jack Schaap Confesses To Sexual Relationship With Teen After Firing From Megachurch:


FOLLOW: Video, First Baptist Church Of Hammond, Chicago Mega Church, Chicago Megachurch, Hammond Megachurch, Jack Schaap, Jack Schaap Fired, Mega Church Pastor Fired, Pastor Fired For Sin, Pastor Fired For Sinning, Pastor Jack Schaap, Chicago News

Former First Baptist Church of Hammond Pastor Jack Schaap.
The former pastor of First Baptist Church of Hammond has confessed to having sex with a member of the church when she was 16, board members told the congregation Wednesday night.

The Board of Deacons addressed the church Wednesday to explain their sudden decision to fire pastor Jack Schaap, who had led the church for the past 11 years. The church plans to fully cooperate with an FBI investigation into allegations that multiple sexual encounters involving the same girl took place across state lines.

"Stick with us," the board asked of the 15,000 member congregation, according to the WGN.

Schaap's affair was outed accidentally, a former church member told CBS Chicago.

“Jack Schaap had left his cell phone on the pulpit and a deacon had seen it on the pulpit and had picked it up to bring it back to him,” Trisha Kee, who maintains a Facebook group for ex-congregants, told the station. “From what we understand, the deacon then saw a text come through from a teenage girl in the church, and it was a picture of Jack Schaap and this girl making out.”

Lake County Sheriff John Buncich says that his department began a criminal investigation into the church and its Hyles-Anderson College Tuesday after talking with senior church representatives, according to the Chicago Tribune.

Eddie Wilson, director of public relations for the church, told the Chicago Sun-Times that adultery is grounds for dismissal in the church's bylaws. He told the newspaper that Schaap and his wife are "trying to reconcile their marriage," and said that the church will now "begin the process of calling a new pastor."


Schaap and his wife Cindy, the daughter of a beloved former pastor, have been married for more than 30 years and have two children. Schaap has made a career writing advice books about dating.

The First Baptist Church of Hammond faced a similar scandal in 1991 when a deacon was convicted of molesting a 7-year-old girl in her Sunday school class.


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German Dietrich Small Catechism. Why Not Search the Documents for UOJ?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5009355/German_Small_Catechsim_Johann_Conrad_Dietrich.pdf

John Conrad Dietrich - Martin Luther's Small Catechism in German.

Here is another link to the Dietrich Catechism in German.

This is the Internet Archive - Dietrich.

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This is where to find the English Dietrich.

http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/07/thanks-to-two-readers-dietrich.html

English version of John Conrad Dietrich - Martin Luther's Small Catechism in English

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Two readers have made this possible. I downloaded the file and uploaded it to Dropbox. Anyone can access the PDF files via the public Dropbox link. They do not need the software.

Man texts, "I need to quit texting," before driving off cliff - WLBT.com - Jackson, MS

Man texts, "I need to quit texting," before driving off cliff - WLBT.com - Jackson, MS:


HUNTSVILLE, AL (WAFF) -
A college student from Texas believes he is lucky to be alive after a terrible crash. He was texting and driving when his truck flew off of a cliff.

Chance Bothe's truck plunged off of a bridge and into a ravine. One of the last things he typed indicated what almost happened to him.

He wrote, "I need to quit texting, because I could die in a car accident."

After the crash, Chance had a broken neck, a crushed face, a fractured skull, and traumatic brain injuries. Doctors had to bring him back to life three times . Now, 6 months later, he's finally able to talk about what happened.

"They just need to understand, don't do it. Don't do it. It's not worth losing your life," he said. "I went to my grandmother's funeral not long ago, and I kept thinking, it kept jumping into my head, I'm surprised that's not me up in that casket. I came very close to that, to being gone forever."

Chance's father said, if he had a child just learning to drive, he would disable texting and Internet on their phone.

As of August 1st, drivers in Alabama will face a $25 fine the first time they are caught texting behind the wheel.




'via Blog this'

WELS Really Is a Private, Incestuous Club

Upper left, back row: Ski and Tim Glende were at some MLS event, perhaps senior day.

Daniel Gorman said...

If WELS was (sic, contrary to fact, no he's right - it's a private incestuous club) a private club, it could admit and expel members arbitrarily, in secret, in accordance with its own set of man-made rules. But WELS is a holy church. It is bound by the rules of conduct set forth in holy scripture (Matt. 18:15-18) and the Lutheran Confessions (Large Catechism; Ten Commandments; 279, 280).

"In essence the various groupings in Jesus' name for the proclamation of His Gospel all lie on the same plane. They are all Church in one and the same sense, namely in this sense that on the basis of the marks of the Church the Lord lets us apprehend the presence of the una sancta (the Holy Christian Church) in each such grouping of people, and thus enables us to acknowledge them as gatherings of believers possessing the ministry of the keys with the right of exercising this ministry in accordance with the considerations of love and order." WELS Theses on Church and Ministry.

Insights from Tim Glende's Plagiarism Study Group explain the need to copy Groeschel:


Anonymous said...

"Daniel Gorman" is a fake name, and behind it lurks a guy who is, well, how to say it, "Off his rocker" is perhaps a more technical way of putting it. (sic, run on sentence)

He rants routinely on LutherQuest in a manner than (sic) only but (sic) be regarded as nothing less than delusional.

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GJ - Let's leave that phrase alone, just to admire it - "in a manner than only but be regarded as..."

No wonder he had trouble with Greek and doctrine.

How exactly does a nameless blogger accuse someone else of being anonymous? That is so WELS.

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 Daniel Gorman said...

Anonymous, 8/2 11:15 am: "Daniel, so are you telling me that you believe when Jesus said in Mt 18 "tell it to the church" that he meant "everyone included in the Holy Christian Church," in which case we would need to make everything public for every Christian on the planet. If you are not claiming that, why would you be included in "church" as it relates to a local congregation and the district presidium?"

Because "there is upon earth a little holy group and congregation of pure saints, under one head, even Christ, called together by the Holy Ghost in one faith, one mind, and understanding, with manifold gifts, yet agreeing in love, without sects or schisms. I am also a part and member of the same, a sharer and joint owner of all the goods it possesses..." Large Catechism, Of the Creed.

I am a part and a member, a sharer, and a joint owner in every baptism and every excommunication that the holy church of the AzCa District performs. I have every right to know that its baptisms and excommunications are performed according to Christ's command.

Anonymous, 8/2 11:15 am: "Or do you believe that because the WELS is also a church that every local congregation must bring every excommunication before the entire Synod?"

No, as the WELS Theses on Church and Ministry states, "In essence the various groupings in Jesus' name for the proclamation of His Gospel all lie on the same plane. They are all Church in one and the same sense, namely in this sense that on the basis of the marks of the Church the Lord lets us apprehend the presence of the una sancta (the Holy Christian Church) in each such grouping of people, and thus enables us to acknowledge them as gatherings of believers possessing the ministry of the keys with the right of exercising this ministry in accordance with the considerations of love and order."

The local church, the district church, and the synod church all lie on the same plane. They all have the right of excommunication and they all have a responsibility to conduct each excommunication in accordance with scripture and the Lutheran Confessions.

August 2, 2012 4:49 PM

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Pastor emeritus Nathan Bickel has left a new comment on your post "WELS Really Is a Private, Incestuous Club":

Ichabod -

Sometimes what you post on your website leaves (to be desired) more questions than answers.

Could you explain the first picture of your posting? This pic without captioned information makes one wonder, - as the old adage does express, that "a picture is worth a thousand words."

Who are those young men in [apparent] celebratory suits? What are they apparently celebrating? Why are the two (seated) all over each other, hugging so?

And, it almost appears that the two young men right beside the two seated, are posing as best men. Could this really be so? Is there a picture of a cake you are not posting?