Friday, July 1, 2011

Visit Historic St. John's Lutheran Church in Milwaukee.
The Organ Recital Is July 24th



The organ is a Barckhoff-Wangerin, meaning Barckhoff built it in 1890 and W expanded it somewhat in 1919 at the 50th anniversary of the mixed choir. In 1996 members did extensive work with the valves and leathering. It has 39 ranks.
"It really shakes St. John's church. Which takes a lot considering how big the building is. 
From the highest pitches to the low rumbles of the pedal; 
every note on the organ sings through the glorious space like a wonderul human voice."








Time
Sunday, July 24 · 3:00pm - 4:00pm
Location
Historic St. John's Lutheran Church
804 W. Vliet St.
Milwaukee, WI
Created By
David Porth
More Info
David Porth will be giving a recital on the mighty 2/39 Barckhoff/Wangerin pipe organ of Historic St. John's Lutheran Church.

Before the recital why not consider attending a Divine Service at 10:00am in the church. Hear the wonderful message of Jesus Christ and what He has done for YOU!

All are invited to attend! Come and visit this beautiful landmark in Milwaukee! This church is considered to be one of the finest examples of German Lutheran church architecture in the United States.


A Festive Intrada -- Walter Pelz

Prelude in G Major -- J.S. Bach

Aria -- Paul Manz

Toccata in F Major -- Dietrich Buxtehude

Selections from Eight -- Charles Ore
I. Entrance
III. Diversion
IV. Procession
VI. Procession II

***INTERMISSION***
(10 minutes)

A Patriotic Suite -- Charles Callahan

Andante Tranquillo from Sonata 3 -- Felix Mendelssohn
Allegro Movement from Sonata 2

Improvisation on In Thee is Gladness -- Michael Burkhardt

Organ Recital at History St. John's Lutheran Church,
July 24th.
Attend the Worship Service at 10 AM


Time
Sunday, July 24 · 3:00pm - 4:00pm
Location
Historic St. John's Lutheran Church
804 W. Vliet St.
Milwaukee, WI
Created By
David Porth
More Info
David Porth will be giving a recital on the mighty 2/39 Barckhoff/Wangerin pipe organ of Historic St. John's Lutheran Church.

Before the recital why not consider attending a Divine Service at 10:00am in the church. Hear the wonderful message of Jesus Christ and what He has done for YOU!

All are invited to attend! Come and visit this beautiful landmark in Milwaukee! This church is considered to be one of the finest examples of German Lutheran church architecture in the United States.


A Festive Intrada -- Walter Pelz

Prelude in G Major -- J.S. Bach

Aria -- Paul Manz

Toccata in F Major -- Dietrich Buxtehude

Selections from Eight -- Charles Ore
I. Entrance
III. Diversion
IV. Procession
VI. Procession II

***INTERMISSION***
(10 minutes)

A Patriotic Suite -- Charles Callahan

Andante Tranquillo from Sonata 3 -- Felix Mendelssohn
Allegro Movement from Sonata 2

Improvisation on In Thee is Gladness -- Michael Burkhardt

---

rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "Organ Recital at History St. John's Lutheran Churc...":

I'm there! Before the Lord calls me home, I would like to ring the bells of old St John's. Our family attended a worship service there many years ago. The rope for the bell extends through a hole in the ceiling in an area that we now call the narthex. On another occasion, I was given a tour of St John's by one of the members. It is heart warming to know that the organ is still functional. Working on pipe organs is an extremely specialized skill.

Important PS for the WELS - ELCA Article



The link is to this article:

ELCA WELS Parallel

California wrote:
A sentence in the posting:" ELCA-WELS Parallel",  leaped out at me mentioning the year of 1977.  "The agenda was announced in 1977 in TELL to promote Church Growth Movement from Fuller Seminary." 

 It may have been announced, in 1977, but the groundwork had been systematically laid and tilled officially but quietly for ten years after significant resolutions were passed in convention in 1967.   It was in 1977 that my membership was terminated from a WELS congregation after some years of attempting to get both congregation leaders and synod leaders to understand what had been done and what was beginning to manifest itself in the mid 70's.   Congregations didn't understand the management by objectives process adopted in 1967, but some synod level officials did, whether they admitted it or not.  Systems management doesn't just appear and be skillfully implemented without guidance and nurturing.    I recognized at the time, that damage had been done, due to having discovered and been involved in exposing the same process of governance which was hijacking the governing institutions in civic government at all levels and especially education (school) governance.

Following are some observations from the open letter I sent to the congregation after the termination 1977.   My conscience is clear, for they couldn't say they had never heard.

From the Open Letter to Peace Lutheran Church, Santa Clara, CA    2/7/1977.

"Students of history always identify turning points resulting in long range changes in institutions.  Rarely recognized as pivotal at the time, it generally takes a period of time before the fruits of such events begin to manifest themselves to the general body of an institution.  If such a "turning point" were to be identified for the current "facilitation of change" in Synod, it would be the year of 1967.  Two resolutions adopted at the 1967 Synod Convention set the stage for fundamental, far reaching changes only recently coming apparent.

1)The resolution was adopted which provided the technical loophole which was used to justify the government grants to WELS church schools. 
It set the stage for the idea that government educators had something constructive to offer Christian education, for in addition to monetary considerations, programs and philosophies of these educators have been assimilated into Christian schools until the distinction between church and government schools is becoming less distinct by the year.

2)  The second action of that 1967 convention was the authorization of the restructuring of Synod organization from  a truly representative form of governance to one of Systems Analysis (Planning, Programming, Budgeting System).   The name itself defines the management system.   More than a budgeting system, PPBS also restructures the WAY DECISIONS ARE MADE.  Plans ARE PREDETERMINED BY AN ELITE PLANNING BODY.   All factors  involved are known only by that planning body.  Programming for acceptance of the pre-determined plans are implemented to create the need for the planned goal, or to obtain the necessary feedback to identify strong opposition, and if necessary adjust the plan so it  will be accepted by members at large who can be persuaded through various means to be receptive to the plan.  They in turn ultimately legitimatize the predetermined plans with a vote in congregation,district or synod.  This process is in motion now to discredit King James Version and condition for acceptance NIV.

The nature of PPBS is manipulative from the top.  There is no escaping the essence of the process.........
........................

As in every other church body including those calling themselves Lutheran, WELS will experience continued controversy.  There can be no true peace or unity once a church body is divided on what the very Word of God is!   If history repeats itself,and the pattern follows that which every other church embarking on similar paths has gone, WELS will become more and more subjective, larger and larger promotional synod-wide programs will multipy.........expect increased encouragement of emotional responses at all levels  of church life.  With more and more methodologically contrived situations designed to elicit subjective responses, will come less and less doctrinal emphasis........There are repeated expressions of concern by synod that fewer young men are expressing the intention to enter the ministry.  Only the Holy spirit generates the true desire to become a full time servant of the Word.   Could it be that God is "saying something to WELS"? ....................................  

2/7/1977 

---

LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Important PS for the WELS - ELCA Article":

1967 seems to be a pivotal year...it is the same year that the first printing of "This We Believe" came out. Its confession regarding redemption and justification are audacious when compared to the Brief Statement of 1932. UOJ is all a part of this PPBS initiative. WELS hangs their hat on J.P. Meyer concerning justification...the only book he wrote. Compare that to the volumes the reformers wrote and what resides in the BoC.

ELCA - WELS Parallel:
Goodsoil versus Church and Change.
Missouri and the Little Sect Have Factions Too

This is a group photo of GoodSoil supporters, wearing their rainbows.
I understand various bishops and leaders wore them at the 2009 convention.


The American Lutheran Publicity Bureau discussion group is talking about the upcoming ELCA convention and previous ones. In 2007, Brad Schmeling, a pastor kicked out of ELCA, for violating their rules, was the preacher at the alternative worship service at their convention. In 2009, the rules were reversed, and the same minister was welcomed back shortly afterward. Various pastors and congregations under fake-discipline were also welcomed back with special ceremonies designed by ELCA.

Nevertheless, GoodSoil is organized to have parallel services at the upcoming convention and engage the conventioneers in furthering GoodSoil goals. That will probably lead to openly gay bishops of both genders.

The result of their political achievements, enforced ruthlessly by ELCA bishops, is an unprecedented flight from ELCA. The two leading protest denominations are the LCMC and the NALC, both products of the traditional group within ELCA, named CORE. Those two groups alone have 1,000 congregations, many of them the largest ones in ELCA. The exits continue and the ELCA seminaries are in deep financial trouble.

In the mid 19th century, a similar division took place in the old General Synod, when approximately half of the congregations left and formed their own seminary in Philadelphia, where I was once interviewed for a job.

GoodSoil Clearly Runs ELCA
The GoodSoil agenda and Bishop Mark Hanson's agenda are the same. The ELCA bishops all work to enforce that agenda. Unlike the Episcopal Church, no active bishop has left ELCA, nor have any ELCA bishops taken entire districts out with them. ELCA leader Hanson is a hero among mainline denomination leaders.

Church and Change Runs WELS



  • The agenda was announced in 1977 in TELL - to promote the Church Growth Movement from Fuller Seminary. SP Naumann endorsed it. SP Miscke promoted it. SP Gurgle institutionalized it. SP Schroeder frowned at it while giving them everything they wanted.





  • TELL officially died in 1982, only to be resurrected by Valleskey pal Radlof as the Mission Counselor's Newsletter. They bragged, once again, about TELL's goal to promote Church Growth. With the mission counselor's program, WELS had Fuller-trained robots paid by offerings to promote Babtist-Pentecostal doctrine and the ruminations of "Lutheran" CG copycats.





  • In 1995, Church and Change began, using synod offering money, to promote the Church Growth Movement as outside protest group.





  • In 2011, Church and Change announced they were done, but their website and their board of directors remain in place. Their meeting last year, which Don Patterson attended, was called Regaining Momentum. Patterson has hired Church and Change's Cornerstone (Team Tetzel) to raise money for his latest dreams.




  • Various people made me aware of the facts and gave me the actual materials. Some have prospered by saying nothing while letting me do their work for them. The Changers have been howling in dismay over revelations, especially since this blog owns many Lutheran topics and images when people use Google.

    The yelling seemed to go up a notch when I began uniting sound and false doctrine with graphics.

    Church and Change owns WELS (synod staff, both colleges, seminary, FICL) and continues to bear fruit: schools closing, membership shrinking, false doctrine growing.

    "Don't gloat, Brett. We are still working with Missouri, WELS, and the ELS."

    Time of Grace Supporters Just Happen To Be
    Church and Change Leaders.
    Shop and Compare - See the Other Time of Grace Memorial Below




    AC V has left a new comment on your post "If Hottentots Are Already Justified, Why Attend Ch...":

    Pro-ToG Memorial:

    Unpublished Memorial (2011-07U)
    Subject: Time of Grace Ministry
    Floor Committee #21

    WHEREAS 1) Time of Grace was formed by a group of WELS laymen and clergy to utilize the
    medium of television to present law and gospel; and
    WHEREAS 2) Time of Grace is viewed weekly in many American markets and globally by satellite
    broadcast and over the Internet; and

    WHEREAS 3) WELS members in the armed services, including those in combats zones, together
    with WELS college students, the aged and infirmed, and other WELS members unable to attend their own church, through Time of Grace have daily or weekly access to sermons and devotions thus sustaining and strengthening their faith and trust in the living Lord; and
    WHEREAS 4) WELS parents, spouses, and loved ones of those who are physically unable to attend
    a WELS worship service are sincerely appreciative that Time of Grace devotions are available for their loved ones; and
    WHEREAS 5) In addition to the thousands of WELS members, there are tens of thousands of non-
    WELS viewers who hear pure scripture-based presentations of law and gospel; therefore be it
    Resolved, a) that the Synod in convention acknowledge, thank, and encourage Time of Grace to
    continue in its ministry for the edification of WELS members and the spreading of the pure gospel message to thousands of others; and be it finally
    Resolved, b) that the Synod in Convention encourage congregations to publicize and utilize Time
    of Grace broadcasts, internet site, and other materials as a supplement to their regular worship and study of God’s holy word, especially to their members who can’t attend their congregation’s worship services and Bible studies.

    Rev. Mark J. Cares
    Mr. Thomas C. Walters
    Rev. Harold J. Hagedorn
    Mr. Robert L. Timmermann
    Mr. Paul D. Rosenow
    Mr. Daniel L. Kunz
    Rev. Matthew J. Zimpelmann
    Mr. John W. Tappe
    Mr. Warren D. Ehlke
    Mr. Dennis E. Walters
    Mr. Mark A. Wrightsman
    Dr. Scott A. Gostchock
    Mr. Merle D. Blum
    Mr. Paul L. Kunz
    Rev. Howard O. Mohlke
    Mr. James W. Freer
    Rev. John P. Huebner
    Rev. James A. Aderman
    Rev. Matthew Doebler
    Mr. and Mrs. Carl E. Pagel
    Rev. John Parlow
    Rev. David C. Pagel
    Rev. Steven L. Witte
    Rev. Joel W. Schwartz
    Rev. Larry G. Zwieg
    Rev. James R. Sonnemann
    Mr. Roger J. Jeffery
    Mr. Jeffery P. Davis
    Rev. Ronald V. Ash
    Dr. and Mrs. Rick E. Klug
    Rev. Wayne I. Schulz
    Rev. Raymond Kimbrough
    Rev. and Mrs. James G. Witt III
    Rev. Keith C. Tullberg
    Rev. John M. Graf
    Mr. Thomas H. DeWitz
    Rev. Donald W. Patterson
    Dr. Donald A. Whitlock
    Mr. Gregory P. Naumann
    Rev. Mark A. Cordes
    Rev. Daniel J. Rautenberg
    Rev. Michael G. Geiger
    Rev. Robert J. Gurgel
    Rev. Frederick J. Guldberg
    Rev. Paul S. Soukup
    Rev. Bill F. Limmer
    Rev. Christian J. Winkel
    Peter Dorn
    Carl Lemke
    Rev. John Lawrenz

    ----

    AC V has left a new comment on your post "Time of Grace Supporters Just Happen To Be Church ...":

    ToG, the face of the WELS brand of Lutheranism: A gown-less, sacrament-less, Dr. Phil-like motivational speaker. "Click here to purchase now."

    WELS readers, get ready for your future pastors to come into your congregations in the same way. They already are.

    ---

    LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Time of Grace Supporters Just Happen To Be Church ...":

    "In addition to the thousands of WELS members, there are tens of thousands of non-
    WELS viewers who hear pure scripture-based presentations of law and gospel;"

    I watched recently...what verse in the Bible is pre-forgiven in again?

    ***

    GJ - Readers can look over the list above and count how many people deny being Church and Changers - like Don Patterson - yet turn up always supporting the Church and Change agenda.

    ---

     This is the link.

    Synod Convention Memorial - Time of Grace

    Memorial to the Synod in Convention Re: Time of Grace Ministry
    Whereas (1) Time of Grace Ministry has actively sought and obtained the status of a Recognized Service Organization (RSO) from the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS); and
    Whereas (2) Time of Grace is listed in the Yearbook of the LCMS as a Recognized Service Organization; and
    Whereas (3) Leaders and representatives from Time of Grace regularly appear at LCMS events and congregations to promote the ministry of Time of Grace; and
    Whereas (4) The administrative board of Time of Grace includes at least one member of the LCMS; and
    Whereas (5) The LCMS, according to its official bylaws and policies, considers its RSOs to be “valued partners of the LCMS,” views the services of its RSOs as “a profound extension of the LCMS’ mission and ministry,” and expects its RSOs to “respect and not act contrary to the doctrine and practice of the Synod” and to “foster the mission and ministry of the Synod and engage in program activity that is in harmony with the programs of the boards of the Synod;” and
    Whereas (6) An organization cannot truthfully and honestly carry out joint mission and ministry with two synods that are not in fellowship with one another, pretending to “walk together” with both; and
    Whereas (7) The practices of Time of Grace are examples of the very unionism over which the bond of church fellowship between the WELS and the LCMS was formally severed in 1961; and
    Whereas (8) The speaker and chief writer for Time of Grace is Pastor Mark Jeske, who with his congregation, St. Marcus Evangelical Lutheran Church of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, is a member of the WELS; and
    Whereas (9) Time of Grace maintains that it is not affiliated with any denomination or part of any denominational structure; and
    Whereas (10) Such an arrangement implies that it is possible to be a member of the WELS while leading a religious organization which will confess no denominational ties; and
    Whereas (11) Time of Grace has established a presence in most (if not all) of the Twelve Districts of the WELS; and
    Whereas (12) Time of Grace has pursued the introduction of its services and ministry into the world mission fields of the WELS; and
    Whereas (13) Scripture instructs us to present a clear confession of our doctrine and practice and to affiliate ourselves only with those church bodies whose doctrine and practice conform to the entirety of God’s Word (Romans 16:17; 1 Timothy 4:16); and
    Whereas (14) The Southeastern Wisconsin District presidium is charged with oversight of doctrine and practice of the pastors, teachers, congregations and other entities of our fellowship within its district; and
    Whereas (15) Time of Grace has not provided to the Southeastern Wisconsin District presidium documentation from the LCMS regarding the non-RSO status of Time of Grace; and
    Whereas (16) The Southeastern Wisconsin District presidium, in two years of dealing with Time of Grace, has been unable to convince Time of Grace of the need to withdraw its RSO status or change its unionistic practices; therefore be it
    RESOLVED (a) That the Synod in convention recognize Time of Grace’s relationship with the LCMS as unionistic, confessionally unclear, and therefore unscriptural; and be it finally RESOLVED (b) That the Synod in convention encourage the presidium of the Southeastern Wisconsin District to take immediate measures of loving Christian discipline toward Time of Grace and its leaders, calling on them to terminate their LCMS RSO status and to return to biblical practices and a clear confession regarding their walk together with the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. 
    Mr. Mark Bannan - Salem, Owosso, MI 
    Rev. Thomas J. Bernthal - Peace, Sahuarita, AZ 
    Rev. Theodore G. Bodjanac - Resurrection, Phoenix, AZ 
    Rev. John F. Boehringer - St. John's, Watertown, WI 
    Rev. Luke Boehringer - Gethsemane, Davenport, IA 
    Rev. Jon D. Buchholz - Emmanuel, Tempe, AZ 
    Rev. Johann Caauwe - Trinity, El Paso, TX 
    Rev. Michael T. Carr - St. Peter, Clovis, CA Prof. (em) 
    Daniel Deutschlander - St. Mark's, Watertown, WI
    Rev. Rodney E. Dietsche - Peace, Green Lake, WI
    Rev. Christopher S. Doerr - Grace, Waupun, WI
    Rev. Ross Else - Emmaus, Phoenix, AZ
    Rev. Paul C. Fetzer - St. John's, Clare, MI
    Rev. Thomas Fischer - Loving Shepherd, Milwaukee, WI
    Rev. Lester G. Fritz - Zion, Van Dyne, WI Michael Hefti - Faith, Radcliff, KY
    Rev. Roy W. Hefti - St. Paul's, Bangor, WI
    Rev. Stephen Hein - Christ, Prescott Valley, AZ
    Mr. Kenneth S. Jamka - Trinity, Sierra Vista, AZ
    Mr. Kurt W. Knurr - Trinity, Sierra Vista, AZ
    Rev. Ronald G. Koehler, III - Grace, Tucson, AZ
    Rev. John R. Koester - Trinity, Temple, TX
    Rev. Robert Koester - NPH, Milwaukee, WI
    Rev. Roger L. Kuerth - St. Luke, Watertown, WI
    Rev. Paul J. Lidtke - Bethlehem, Oshkosh, WI
    Mr. Harold I. Mears - Emmaus, Phoenix, AZ
    Mr. Kevin Needham - St. Paul's, Saginaw, MI
    Rev. David A. Nottling - St. John, Fox Lake, WI
    Rev. Mark D. Ochsankehl - Trinity, Winslow, AZ
    Rev. Aaron Odya - St. Peter's, Eldorado, WI
    Rev. David J. Salinas - St. John, Victorville, CA
    Rev. Paul Schaefer - St. Peter's, Plymouth, MI
    Rev. Neal Schroeder - Divine Peace, Renton, WA
    Rev. Paul Schulz - Grace, Safford, AZ
    Rev. David R. Seager - Loving Shepherd, Milwaukee, WI
    Rev. Gregory Sluke - Trinity, Redgranite, WI
    Rev. James Strand - St. Paul, Bloomer, WI
    Rev. Johnold J. Strey - St. Mark, Citrus Heights, CA
    Rev. Jeffrey W. Suhr - St. John, Appleton, WI
    Rev. Donald Swartz - Mt. Olive, Monroe, WI
    Rev. Benjamin Tomczak - St. Mark, Duncanville, TX
    Rev. Clayton G. Welch - Faith, River Falls, WI
    * Required


    If you are on Jeske's bus, you have job security.
    If you are not on his bus, you will soon be washing the tread marks from your face.

    Thursday, June 30, 2011

    Jon Techlin Wrote On Light From Light



    Jon Techlin
     
    I think Mr. Palmer’s point is brilliant. Using the passive voice is an act of cowardice. If those who made this decision were proud of their actions, they would state with the active voice, “I, Pastor Glende/We, the church council … have decided/have voted to … ”

    Instead they intentionally use passive verbage in order to distance themselves from the decision they made, as if this decision came into being on its own, without a creator, through the Big Bang. Using the passive voice in explaining one’s actions betrays a reluctance to take responsibility for them.
    This reminds me of a situation where I witnessed an adult questioning a guilty child over a broken dish. The adult asked, “What happened?” The child responded, “It broke.”

    Indeed. No one broke it. It just broke.

    No one kicked my brother out of the church. He was just kicked out.

    If Hottentots Are Already Justified, Why Attend Church?



    AC V has left a new comment on your post "Heidenreich and the LutherQueasies":

    This is practical theology in the light of justification by faith alone. People ask, "If I'm fully and freely forgiven of all my sins by Christ on the cross, then why should I come to church?" UOJ answers, "Because you need to be reminded of UOJ, show your appreciation for UOJ, and encourage others in UOJ." The Scriptures and the Confessions say, "You need to come to church because you daily sin much and the means of grace will give you the actual forgiveness of sins."

    I've come to believe and confess that a major reason why fewer (W)ELS & LCMS people are attending worship services is because of UOJ. It's the reason Private Confession and Absolution fell into disuse. It's the reason Communion is offered infrequently. It's the reason sermons are Power Point pep talks. Why cherish and encourage the regular use of the means of grace when it's only a reminder of the forgiveness of sins and not the actual, real-time forgiveness of sins?


    ---

    Scott E. Jungen has left a new comment on your post "If Hottentots Are Already Justified, Why Attend Ch...":

    "...pure scripture-based presentations of law and gospel". Are these people watching the same ToG that I have watched? All I've seen is Pastor Jeske walking around in a suit giving Dr. Phil-like prescriptions to lead a better life on earth.

    Scott E. Jungen

    Back from the Dead, Carl Vehse Defends the Felononious Founders of the Missouri Synod

    "Carl Vehse" is a regular writer for LutherQuest.
    I would not pick a felon's name as a nom de plume.


    Carl Vehse said...
    Why are you providing a link to such a erroneous website? Even the title of the website's thread, "Pietism's Saxon Migration Began with Kidnapping Three People, Violating the Confessional, Leading a Riot, And Robbery" is inaccurate. Only two people were kidnapped and not as the thread describes; there was no violating of the confessional, primarily because the pastor was not really a pastor; there was no riot; and any robbery was primarily done by Martin Stephan. The website thread bases its history on a equally, if not more, inaccurate book written by Philip Stephan, a descendent of deposed Missouri Saxon Bishop Martin Stephan.


    A key document often referenced throughout Philip Stephan’s book, especially on controversial claims with no other substantiating historical documentation is Frederick William (Wilhelm Friedrich) Koepchen’s unpublished manuscript, “Martin Stephan and the Saxon Emigration of 1838.” Rev. Koepchen was a pastor at St. Luke’s Church in New York City in the early 20th century, when he began preparing a manuscript for the centennial anniversary of the 1838 Saxon Emigration.


    When Rev. Koepchen died, either in 1935 (per Stephan, p. 5) or in 1936 (per Concordia Historical Institute), his collaborator and editor who ended up completing the manuscript was none other than... Rev. Theodore M. Stephan, the grandson of the deposed Martin Stephan. Rev. Theodore Stephan also wrote in 1929 another unpublished manuscript used repeatedly as a reference in Philip Stephan’s book. Thus Philip Stephan’s book of revisionist history is critically dependent on claims made in unpublished manuscripts, which were finally edited and completed by Theodore Stephan, the grandson of Martin Stephan, based in part on documents contributed by a number of Stephan ancestors.


    The most reliable historical book on the events of the Missouri Saxon Emigration is Walter O. Forster's Zion on the Mississippi (Concordia Publishing House, St. Louis, 1953), along with voluminous references to original sources. Forster's book is a revised and expanded version of his Ph.D. Thesis in History at Washington University-St. Louis.


    Finally, in what may be "only for the brave" some additional discussion regarding the kidnapping of Walther's niece and nephew, Maria and Theodor Schubert, can be read in the Review, Part III of August R. Suelflow's Servant of the Word: The Life and Ministry of C.F.W. Walther (CPH, St. Louis, 2000). Some additional information about the Schubert children was obtained a number of years ago. According to the records of Concordia Lutheran Church in Frohna, Missouri, Maria Schubert was born on May 10, 1823, and died on July 19, 1840, at the age of 17, a year and a half after the Olbers arrived at New Orleans. The cause of death was listed as "gallstone fever". Theodor Schubert was one of the first eleven students in the Dresden, Missouri, school started on December 9, 1839, by Carl Walther, Johann Burnger, Ottomar Fuerbringer, and Theodor Brohm. According to Carl S. Meyer (Log Cabin to Luther Tower, CPH, St. Louis, 1965, p. 6) Theodor Schubert had died prior to September 12, 1841, when the remaining students signed a birthday poem for Brohm. No information on Theodor Schubert's death is in church records of Concordia or Trinity (Altenburg), but it is known that some deaths during that difficult time were not recorded.

    LPC said...
    I link for the intetest of balanced reporting and let the reader decide. I find your reaction funny. For you erroneous reporting is more evil than kidnapping 2 children which you admit Walther did.
    Brett Meyer said...
    Including the kidnapping and subsequent robbery and abandonment of Stephan I count three (3). Heinous!
    Carl Vehse said...
    "For you, erroneous reporting is more evil than kidnapping 2 children which you admit Walther did." I pointed out erroneous reporting. I said nothing that would suggest I consider such faulty reporting more evil than kidnapping. What evidence do you have to support your accusation?

    ***

    GJ - The attorney Carl Vehse was responsible for hiding the children Walther kidnapped from his own father's parsonage, with the help of his brother, who was also a pastor and a Stephan follower.

    The attorney Marbach also helped in this felony, so both attorneys were felons for obstructing justice.

    The writer has offered the additional material that both children died young in America, which would have been heart-breaking for the family back in Europe.

    Zion on the Mississippi is a good book. All the historical documents have to be weighed. The eye-witness accounts are valuable, even when they are not entirely accurate or they engage in outright distortions. People try their best and still get facts wrong. The official archives of the LCA had A. D. Mattson dying in the wrong city and state. How could the official archives be wrong?

    Those things happen all the time. History is quite messy and much of it lies buried forever.

    Stephan was a known adulterer in his old parish, who should have been removed, following the Scriptures, in Europe, but that would have been difficult, with the Walther brothers fleeing the police and the attorneys lying and hiding the children.

    One can remove a pastor or bishop without threatening his life, robbing him of all his goods & all his gold coins, and kidnapping him. Many people realize that the Missouri Synod (St. Louis and Perry County) began with a series of crimes. Lying about the past does not solve any problems in the present.

    If UOJ is true because Walther taught it, then people should re-evaluate whether they want to follow a pastor who committed multiple felonies, which gave him:
    1. His niece and nephew in America, contrary to the court, where they died;
    2. Control of the sect;
    3. Acres of free land (which Stephan bought with his own money), plus 40 acres they took back from him;
    4. Two valuable chalices;
    5. Many personal effects;
    6. And a big pile of gold.
    The material above was kelmed from Dr. Cruz's Extra Nos.

    Church Does Not Have To Be Boring...Or Lutheran...Anymore



    bruce-church (http://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Trifecta Imperfecta: What Thrivent Hath Put Togeth...":

    LCMS youth go to synodical gathering where contemporary worship is put on, and now don't want to attend their boring church back home:

    http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=15229

    This comment came in on an ancient (March 6th, 2010) post of ours, LCMS Youth Gathering Praise Music Now Comes with a Theological Disclaimer. The commenter was someone who attended the conference as a chaperone. To gain context for the comment, you should read some of the other comments on the original post. Tracy makes some excellent points about the gathering, but what’s interesting to me is that two of the youth who attended NYG no longer attend church because they have seen how church “can be done” and are bored at their home church now.

    Some Wondered about Mt. Olivet
    In Minneapolis Leaving ELCA -
    Less Likely Now

    ELCA bishop quits to lead Mount Olivet

    • Article by: ROSE FRENCH , Star Tribune
    • Updated: June 27, 2011 - 8:35 PM
    The Rev. Craig Johnson steps down from largest synod to lead the largest congregation in place of the late Rev. Paul Youngdahl.



    Evangelical Lutheran Church in America Minneapolis Area Synod Bishop Craig Johnson
    Photo: Jeffrey Thompson, Star Tribune
    Cart

    The Rev. Craig Johnson, bishop of the Minneapolis Area Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, is resigning to take over as interim senior pastor at Mount Olivet Lutheran Church.
    Johnson, who leads the largest ELCA synod in the country, will now be chief religious leader of the largest ELCA congregation in the country following the death of Mount Olivet's senior pastor, the Rev. Paul Youngdahl, last week.

    "My primary role will be to build a foundation for helping the members and staff heal from this trauma and move the congregation forward in its mission," Johnson said Monday.

    Johnson, 64, will step down as bishop of the Minneapolis Area Synod on July 31 and take over at Mount Olivet in Minneapolis on Aug. 1.

    Elected bishop in 2001, Johnson was re-elected June 1, 2007. Bishops serve six-year terms and are limited to two terms in the Minneapolis Area Synod. Johnson's second term was scheduled to end in two years.

    John Kapanke, Mount Olivet's vice president, said Johnson is a "known commodity" at Mount Olivet, where he was an associate pastor from 1977 to 1991. He said the church is happy Johnson decided to accept the job leading the congregation of nearly 13,500.

    "He's well-respected not just in the Minneapolis Area Synod but throughout the ELCA," Kapanke said. "He was just a logical choice. There's no question in my mind he's the ideal person for this position. We're all grieving over the loss of our senior pastor. God in his wisdom has really sent us a wonderful person to serve that senior pastor role. He's a humble man and wonderful pastor."

    Youngdahl, 73, died unexpectedly June 20 after suffering a thoracic aneurysm. He led the church for nearly four decades, taking over from his father, Reuben Youngdahl, who arrived at the church in the late 1930s and was senior pastor until 1968. The father-and-son preachers are largely credited with building Mount Olivet into one of the largest megachurches in the country.

    The Minneapolis Area Synod has about 214,000 baptized members and 162 congregations in seven metro counties. Minnesota has more ELCA members than any other state, with close to 800,000 baptized members. Nationwide, the ELCA has nearly 4.5 million members.

    Finding a permanent replacement for Johnson could take up to a year or more. An interim synod bishop will likely be appointed in the near future and could serve between six months and a year, ELCA officials say. The synod will hold a special election to find a replacement for Johnson.

    John Brooks, a spokesman for the ELCA, said it's not uncommon for bishops like Johnson to leave their posts and return to leading congregations. Johnson, in fact, seems happy to do so.

    "Rarely do pastors receive an opportunity to give back to a congregation later in life that has so profoundly shaped their ministry," Johnson said. "Rarely are we able to honor the legacy of a friend, mentor and colleague."

    ***

    GJ - How convenient - to keep Mt. Olivet from bolting. The interim has the advantage of a previous long association with the congregation.

    So far, the largest congregations in ELCA have been the ones to leave first. They are more independent in spirit.

    Mt. Olivet, with 900 staff, has more employees than most congregations have members.

    Wednesday, June 29, 2011

    Bored Makes Sister-in-Law Read LutherQueasy



    bored has left a new comment on your post "Heidenreich and the LutherQueasies":

    I introduced my sister-in-law to Lutherquest this morning. She called me back twenty minutes later and said " huh... I dunno, seems more like Loser-quest to me".

    The lady hath a fine tuned wit.

    Trifecta Imperfecta:
    What Thrivent Hath Put Together (with ELCA),
    Let Not Man Put Asunder.
    Walther's Dream of Lutheran Union, via UOJ, Achieved



    MetroLutheran

    An independent, liberal pan-Lutheran newspaper serving the Greater Twin Cities area

    Featured Stories, National Lutheran News

    Is there a conservative Lutheran coalition on the horizon?

    Leaders within three U.S. Lutheran church bodies are contemplating a resurrection. They were once part of a century-old partnership called The Synodical Conference (SC). It once included a number of Lutheran synods now merged into the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, but all of them ended their SC connections decades ago.


    When the SC started winding down in the early 1960s, there were three members — the relatively small Evangelical Lutheran Synod (ELS), headquartered in Mankato, Minnesota; the middle-sized Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS), centered in Milwaukee; and the large (by U.S. Lutheran standards) Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod (LCMS), based in St. Louis.

    After nearly a decade of voicing their misgivings about LCMS’ commitment to Lutheran confessionalism, the two smaller members of SC decided their larger partner was no longer fit to be a member of the group. That left LCMS on the outside, with ELS and WELS remaining.


    The Rev. Mark Schroeder, president of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, was featured presenter at the Emmaus Conference, a gathering of UOJ Lutherans held in Tacoma, Washington.
    “True confessionalists” insist on adherence to the unaltered version of the Augsburg Confession.
    The issue that created the standoff, and the glue that previously held the SC together, was a commitment to a faithful adherance to the Lutheran confessions. The idea was (and still is) that the charter document of the Lutheran Reformation, the Augsburg Confession, is foundational for faithful Lutheranism. The Augsburg Confession, first presented in Augsburg, Germany, in 1530, was later revised by its chief author, Philip Melanchthon, so “true confessionalists” insist on adherance to the unaltered (original) version.

    Underlying this confessional Lutheran posture is something even more fundamental. Confessional Lutherans are convinced that the Christian Scriptures, in all their details, are universally accurate and reliable. Expressions like “literally true,” “infallible,” and “inerrant” are sometimes used to describe the Bible’s content.

    Differences define the moment

    By 1960 the leaders of ELS and WELS increasingly believed that the LCMS was no longer committed to this understanding of the Bible and its content. They were vindicated in this belief, they thought, when the LCMS declared pulpit and altar fellowship with The American Lutheran Church (The ALC) a decade later. (The ALC, like the LCA, which merged to form the ELCA, had by then moved away from language of “biblical literalism” and “infallibility.”)

    What led the LCMS toward an apparent less rigorous biblical understanding? To be accurate, some within the LCMS never moved away from their very conservative stance. (They would have been candidates for continued membership in the SC, if individuals had been eligible to belong). Many observers of the U.S. Lutheran Church scene in the 1960s and 1970s believed that some of the LCMS theologians began traveling to Europe for advanced theological studies and bringing their discoveries and insights back to the U.S. In time, some of these ideas “infiltrated” (to use a term favored by the conservatives) the teaching program at Concordia Seminary, the flagship LCMS seminary in St. Louis.

    Led by a firebrand LCMS pastor in rural Missouri, accusations were lodged and the seminary president was branded a false teacher. When he resigned, most of the faculty went with him. Most of these scholars migrated to teaching positions in schools operated by the ALC or the LCA (finding themselves, eventually, in the ELCA).

    A time to re-examine common beliefs

    Now, 40 years after this showdown, with the “cleansing” that drove out what is now commonly referred to as “the moderates” (conservatives called them “liberals” or “radicals”), LCMS leaders may be ready to seriously consider a resurrected Synodical Conference with the ELS and the WELS.

    Evidence of this readiness is a “free conference” of conservative Lutheran theologians held in Tacoma, Washington, in May. The fourth annual “Emmaus Conference” was sponsored and hosted by WELS pastors in the Puget Sound area. The lineup of presenters was remarkable. A major paper (almost 50 pages!) on Lutheran fellowship was delivered by the Rev. Mark Schroeder, president of WELS. Two responses were offered, one each by the Rev. John Molstad, president of ELS and the Rev. Matthew Harrison, president of LCMS. The general tone of the meeting was one of collegiality. The three speakers were clearly in essential agreement with one another.

    In advance of the Tacoma meeting, the Rev. Anthony Bertram, an LCMS pastor, wrote on his Internet blog, “I think it is great that the presidents from the three main confessional Lutheran churches in America are going to be together in one place. When was the last time this happened in public?”
    It may be the first time it has happened in a long time, but it won’t be the last. Next year’s Emmaus Conference will feature the same three speakers. Molstad will be the presenter, with the other two presidents responding.

    Is the Synodical Conference making a comeback? Stay tuned.

    A brief timeline of the Synodical Conference

    1872
    The Evangelical Lutheran Synodical Conference of North America (SC) was organized, including the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS), the Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod (LCMS), and the Norwegian Synod, to work together on evangelism.
    1877
    The SC gathered in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and developed a program of evangelical outreach to African Americans and American Indians.
    1908
    The Slovak Synod joined the SC.
    1917
    The Evangelical Lutheran Synod (ELS) joined the SC after it broke away from the Norwegian Synod.
    1919
    The SC established the Lutheran Deaconess Association.
    1955
    The ELS withdrew from the SC after severing its relationship with the LCMS over doctrinal issues.
    1960
    About 70 pastors and congregations withdrew from the WELS and formed the Church of the Lutheran Confession (CLC) because the WELS continued in relationship with the LCMS.
    1961
    The WELS officially acknowledged doctrinal differences with the LCMS, breaking fellowship with that group.
    1967
    The SC was dissolved.
    2008
    Ichabod, The Glory Has Departed, Published

    CFW Walther, Pietist and Head Case.
    Brittle Tyrant in the Making


    P. Stephan's In Pursuit of Religious Freedom has good insights about the founder of the Missouri Synod.

    The Stephan congregation and associated pastors were Pietists. Stephan himself went to Halle University, where Knapp was the famous lecturer and creator of the double-justification scheme, as translated by Woods. Stephan's education was interrupted and he continued at Leipzig.

    Stephan's congregation was connected to Zinzendorf through the land given to it by the famous count. Mission societies were typically Pietistic, so American Lutheran groups were tied to that ideology. In fact, Muhlenberg was sent to America (from Halle) to counter Zinzendorf's trip there. Z used an assumed name.

    So let's drop the notion that Walther came to America to rescue his adopted land from Pietism. He came over as a Pietist, with Pietists, led by a Halle-trained Pietist. He was mildly critical of Pietism later, but he never laid a hand on Spener, the founder of Pietism.

    Few realize today how sacrosanct Spener's name was at that time. Perhaps many Lutherans saw the Halle circle as an antidote to rationalism, but rationalism took over quickly at their citadel. Tholuck (Hoenecke's mentor) was the last of the old breed, and he was pretty rationalistic himself.

    When Stephan met Walther, CFW was "more dead than alive." He was starving himself to atone for his sins. Today that would be considered a major mental problem, especially in a man. Unfortunately, many young women suffer from anorexia nervosa, due to their perfectionism. For example, it is a common problem among Notre Dame undergraduate women, who must be extremely competitive to be accepted there.

    I have dealt with many medical conditions in doing underwriting, but I only had one man with anorexia nervosa.

    Stephan was a dedicated Pietist, but he was known for providing pastoral counseling to individuals. Walther said he owed his life to Stephan, and their mutual accounts agree on that score.

    Martin Stephan Forum:
    In Germany, Martin Stephan Sr. knew Walther, then a student who was starving himself to death in a form of ascetic pietism. Stephan reassured Walther that to obtain salvation, he did not need to resort to this practice, and saved this young man's life (by Walther's own admission). Walther received counsel more than once thereafter from Dr. Stephan in Germany.

    Unethical Bully and Tyrant
    Someone asked me where I got stories about Walther having screaming fits when people opposed him, once he was established as head of the Missouri Synod. These anecdotes are an oral tradition, passed along by Missouri clergy. No one in the LCMS is going to document these stories, because that would be worse than questioning UOJ. Very few outside of Missouri care to deal with the sect's hagiography. Do you, readers, care about Liguori, the Roman Catholic saint (dig that picture in Wiki!), or John Vianney, whose property Missouri bought for the Purple Palace?

    One story is that he could no longer travel to the Springfield seminary, because of tensions between him and the faculty.

    If those stories are dismissed, we still have Walther kidnapping of two minors, fleeing warrants for his arrest, violating the seal of the confessional, refusing to deal with the bishop while organizing a mob, robbery, and another case of forcible kidnap.

    Further evidence of his brittle, dictatorial personality come from his need to dominate and control the other Lutheran groups, such as taking over seminary education and the ludicrous "state synod" idea.

    Circular Reasoning
    Syn Conference fans work from the assumption that anything Walther did and taught was correct, because Walther was perfect in every possible way. No other denomination is so obsessed with the adoration of one man and his opinions.

    Walther selecting and training F. Pieper extended this grasp to the next generation or so. This also applied to Stoeckhardt, whose bizarre manipulation of Romans had to be right, because he agreed with Walther. Forget Luther and everyone else, including the Apostle Paul.

    The Brief Confession of 1932, the last effort of F. Pieper, enshrined the Walther mythology for all time. World absolution had to be true because it came from F. Pieper, who studied under Walther. Thus one particular statement trumps everything from the Word of God and the Confessions.

    According to Walther/UOJ adherents, Romans 4:25 must teach universal absolution of Hindus and Hottentots because Walther-Pieper-Stoeckhardt said so. The plain meaning of Romans 4 and its transition to Romans 5 is simply set aside.

    ---

    Joe Krohn has seen the problem with self-contradictory UOJ here:

    Tuesday, June 28, 2011


    This or That?

    From the WELS website:

    "IV. JUSTIFICATION BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH

    1. We believe that God has justified all sinners, that is, he has declared them righteous for the sake of Christ. This is the central message of Scripture upon which the very existence of the church depends. It is a message relevant to people of all times and places, of all races and social levels, for "the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men" (Romans 5:18). All need forgiveness of sins before God, and Scripture proclaims that all have been justified, for "the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men" (Romans 5:18).

    2. We believe that individuals receive this free gift of forgiveness not on the basis of their own works, but only through faith (Ephesians 2:8,9). Justifying faith is trust in Christ and his redemptive work. This faith justifies not because of any power it has in itself, but only because of the salvation prepared by God in Christ, which it embraces (Romans 3:28; 4:5). On the other hand, although Jesus died for all, Scripture says that "whoever does not believe will be condemned" (Mark 16:16). Unbelievers forfeit the forgiveness won for them by Christ (John 8:24)."

    Point one says that all men of all time need forgiveness and that all men of all time have it since they are righteous and justified before God by Christ's death and resurrection...even before they were born or had a chance to receive faith in a Savior.

    Point two con volutes point one by saying one receives this free gift by faith...even though they have forgiveness before they do anything at all prior to birth even...BUT, Jesus died for all (This is an atonement statement...even though point one proclaims a universal absolution which is NOT atonement, expiation or propitiation) and even though all men were forgiven, now they are unforgiven by their rejection...even though we are talking about a divine decree by God.  God becomes an indian forgiver...sorry to go non-p.c. there...so which is it?

    This concerning the remission of sins from the Augsburg Confession:

    "Now, repentance consists properly of these 3] two parts: One is contrition, that is, 4] terrors smiting the conscience through the knowledge of sin; the other is faith, which is born of 5] the Gospel, or of absolution, and believes that for Christ's sake, sins are forgiven, comforts 6] the conscience, and delivers it from terrors. Then good works are bound to follow, which are the fruits of repentance."

    And this from The Smalcald Articles:

    "1] This office [of the Law] the New Testament retains and urges, as St. Paul, Rom. 1:18 does, saying: The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men. Again, Rom 3:19: All the world is guilty before God. No man is righteous before Him. And Christ says, John 16:8: The Holy Ghost will reprove the world of sin.

    2] This, then, is the thunderbolt of God by which He strikes in a heap [hurls to the ground] both manifest sinners and false saints [hypocrites], and suffers no one to be in the right [declares no one righteous], but drives them all together to terror and despair. This is the hammer, as Jeremiah 23:29 says: Is not My Word like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? This is not activa contritio or manufactured repentance, but passiva contritio [torture of conscience], true sorrow of heart, suffering and sensation of death.

    3] This, then, is what it means to begin true repentance; and here man must hear such a sentence as this: You are all of no account, whether you be manifest sinners or saints [in your own opinion]; you all must become different and do otherwise than you now are and are doing [no matter what sort of people you are], whether you are as great, wise, powerful, and holy as you may. Here no one is [righteous, holy], godly, etc.
    4] But to this office the New Testament immediately adds the consolatory promise of grace through the Gospel, which must be believed, as Christ declares, Mark 1:15: Repent and believe the Gospel, i.e., become different and do otherwise, and believe My promise. And John, preceding Him, is called a preacher of repentance, however, for the remission of sins, i.e., John was to accuse all, and convict them of being sinners, that they might know what they were before God, and might acknowledge that they were lost men, and might thus be prepared for the Lord, to receive grace, and to expect and accept from Him the remission of sins. Thus also Christ Himself says, Luke 24:47: 6] Repentance and remission of sins must be preached in My name among all nations.

    7] But whenever the Law alone, without the Gospel being added exercises this its office there is [nothing else than] death and hell, and man must despair, like Saul and Judas; as St. Paul, Rom. 7:10, says: Through sin the Law killeth. 8] On the other hand, the Gospel brings consolation and remission not only in one way, but through the word and Sacraments, and the like, as we shall hear afterward in order that [thus] there is with the Lord plenteous redemption, as Ps. 130:7 says against the dreadful captivity of sin."

    Fraternal Benefit Insurance Bonus Money Goes To ELCA, the Salvation Army, and Habitat for Humanity



    Jimmy James has left a new comment on your post "LutherQueasies, As Seen by Bored":

    Hello Brett:

    Glad to answer your question. I do seminars about the dangers of churches being united in fellowship with Thrivent.

    My reference invokes the following information directly from the Thrivent website:

    https://www.thrivent.com/aboutus/

    click the term "fraternal benefit society" in blue and read that Thrivent compares itself to a lodge.

    Fraternal Benefit Society

    A not-for-profit organization that provides insurance to its members and operates for social, intellectual, educational, charitable, benevolent, moral, fraternal, patriotic or religious purposes for the benefit of its members and the public. These organizations operate under the lodge system, which means a member of the society is a member of a local chapter of the society. Fraternal benefit societies have representative governments, and members share a religious, ethnic, vocational or other common bond.

    Now go to "K of C" and note that they consider themselves to be a fraternal benefit society....

    http://www.kofc.org/un/en/insurance/index.html

    Since our founding in 1882, the primary mission of the Knights of Columbus has been to protect families from the financial ruin caused by the death of the breadwinner.

    In the beginning, Venerable Father Michael J. McGivney and his fellow Knights “passed the hat” to benefit widows and orphans.

    From that humble start, the Order has grown to include top-rated life insurance, long-term care insurance and retirement products.

    ***

    GJ - There are three main categories of life insurance companies - stock (for profit), mutual (which are very much like stock companies), and lodge or mutual benefit companies.

    Thrivent and the Knights of Columbus are in the same category - mutual benefit insurance. The government gives them tax breaks in return for them offering benefits to members. They become members by virtue of buying a product.

    Old Jake Preus (father of Bob and JAO, also governor of Minnesota) was involved in founding Lutheran Brotherhood, which was the ALC/LCA side of Lutheran insurance.

    Lutheran Brotherhood and AAL (which was more Missouri and WELS) merged a few years back. They used to compete in giving money to the same synodical events. Now they manage to funnel a lot of money outside of the Lutheran Church.

    The most troubling aspect of Thrivent is the way they turn the Lutheran groups into their marketing tools. They hand out money however they want in return for membership lists, thank you notes in bulletins, and their logo on a lot of cheap items, displayed at church events. They encourage members and pastors to buy their products because some money will be returned to the congregation or synod. That makes as much sense as using a Discover Card for the cash-back feature.

    I have noticed several Lutheran journalists questioning this, until they received their own grants. Lutheran Forum was the first one. Christian News was the second one.

    Heidenreich and the LutherQueasies



    Daniel Baker has left a new comment on your post "LutherQueasies, As Seen by Bored":

    I spent the last couple of hours perusing through the following thread on LutherQuest entitled "Objective Justification, How important is it?"

    http://www.lutherquest.org/discus40/messages/16213/15681.html?1099523290

    The thread began on November 3rd, 2004, and petered off on February 18th, 2005. I started in around the December 14th mark, just in time to see a rousing debate begin between Dr. Erich Heidenreich (whose work I am familiar with in a totally unrelated blog, "Lutherans and Procreation"), Pr. Rolf Preus, and a plethora of others (this may be the same thread that Brett Meyer was trying to link to elsewhere; I am uncertain).

    I found it particularly enthralling to observe the arguments go around and around, especially when it came to the attacks lodged against Heidenreich and the contentions he raised, both of which I related to completely. As far as attacks are concerned, Pr. Preus went so far as to fallaciously assert that Heidenreich was a "disciple" of Dr. Jackson, when the former asserted he'd never heard of the latter before being wrongly associated with him!

    In any case, I'm sure this is all water under the bridge by now, so there is no need to post this on the main page or anything. I just thought I would muse and share my discovery, as well as the link for anyone else who needs a semi-entertaining way to kill (literally) a few hours. It is worth reading, however, to see a thorough defense of Confessional justification theology at the expense of OJ/SJ marauders.

    Daniel Baker has left a new comment on your post "LutherQueasies, As Seen by Bored":

    Ha! No sooner did I submit my previous comment than did I discover the following recantation (quoted by Brett Meyer here on Ichabod, of all places) of the long thread I just spent so much time reading:

    "http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2009/05/luther-versus-universal-objective.html" (in the comments)

    Sigh.

    ***

    GJ - The man's last name caught my eye. He is related to a Missouri Synod pastor I met in Sturgis. The dentist and I corresponded a little, because I was glad someone else was challenging LQ Enthusiasm.

    He provided many good challenges to their fantasies, all from his own analytical thinking. Rolf attacked him, naturally.

    As I recall, there was a pause, then Heidenreich surrendered to them. That is where I got the Stormtrooper theme from - the way the UOJ clergy treat the laity.

    Rolf will never admit that his father quoted Calov, below, favorably, and added a Quenstedt citation to his repudiation of UOJ.


    If anyone questions their precious UOJ, he is accused of being my disciple, and I am accused of being Larry Darby's disciple and WAM.s's disciple, too. Rolf is full of accusations, forgetting that he agreed with the justification by faith chapter I sent to him while I was working on Thy Strong Word. Rolf himself has wavered many times, but his Stormtrooper buddies have re-educated him and brought him back to Enthusiasm.

    Out of the Frying Pan, Into the Friar



    ALPB
    It was the ELM candidates, clergy "coming out" and synodical bishops not discipling congregations and/or pastors that led to the state of the ELCA.  Traditionalists would not have needed to call for a vote had the policy of the ELCA actually been respected and upheld.  But you already know that to be true...

    As for me, I have "voted to leave."  I am no longer a pastor of the ELCA (nor am I a pastor of any other group) since I was recently received into the Catholic Church.  God bless those who stay to fight the good fight in the ELCA.  I wish good luck to them.  But for me--the whole Lutheran "experiment" is doomed to fail.   Gladly, the Church goes on.

    Blessings to all,

    Joe Copeck

    Irony Defined




    Irony (from the Ancient Greek εἰρωνεία eirōneía, meaning dissimulation or feigned ignorance)   Liddell & Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, v. sub εἰρωνεία-- is a rhetorical device, literary technique, or situation in which there is a sharp incongruity or discordance that goes beyond the simple and evident intention of words or actions. Wikipedia

    Examples of irony:
    1. Someone who spends two years in a parish doing political work and the rest of his life telling men how to be parish pastors, avoiding those chores himself;
    2. Pastors who satisfy themselves with an easy MDiv while acting as Professors-of-All- Subjects-in-the-Humanities;
    3. Lutherans who have never been outside of Holy Mother Synod yet have deep insights about what is wrong with everyone else's affiliation;
    4. Clergy who pose as pro-life while taking money from Floyd Luther Stolzenburg;
    5. Lutheran buildings that are erected in honor of an adulterer and named after him;
    6. Ministers who plagiarize Enthusiasts and cry "Foul!" when someone quotes a Lutheran.
    7. Synod Presidents who know nothing when asked about the facts and know everything when running down someone's character, citing the Eighth Commandment for cover.
    8. District Presidents.
    9. Clergy who secretly attend Fuller, Willow Creek, Mars Hill, Exponential and other festering cesspools while shunning faithful Lutherans and driving them out.
    10. Synod bureaucrats who always demand agreement or an abject apology and say in exasperation, "It's not us versus them. We are the synod."
    11. Lutheran church leaders who gather all their wisdom at the feet of Babtists, unless the Babtists shun the NNIV in favor of the KJV. Then them Babtists are ignorant, red-necked buffoons.
    12. Tyrannical Waltherians. No, wait. That is utterly consistent.

    PS - Lidell's daughter was the Alice in Alice in Wonderland.