WELS Discussion Overwhelmingly Against NNIV. Translation Committee Isolated in Support of Mytho-Porno Atrocious NNIV

WELS Seminary President Wendland
Wendland's speech in the afternoon session in favor of the NNIV was identical to his presentation at the district convention. His most important quote? "I realize that we're living in a different age, with blogs, and people may be skeptical of a committee's work..." Some recognized the pointed reference to either Intrepids or Ichabod.


Seminary professor John Jeske was the Judas goat who led WELS into the NIV as its only translation. Anyone advocating the KJV was excommunicated as a pastor.

Son Tom Jeske was moderating the discussion tonight. Another son, Mark and Avoid Jeske, was probably busy dedicating a Buddhist temple, built by Thrivent, in some wealthy suburb.

Brett Meyer let me know the discussion was live, so I tuned in. The translation review committee spoke all evening in favor of the NNIV, but the audience was not buying the sales pitch. I did not hear any support from the floor for the NNIV until the end, when one pastoral supporter gave a disjointed speech in favor of the NNIV. I believe another man said that any decision would be a blessing.

Members of the Committee to Force the NNIV on WELS are:

1. Sausage Factory President Paul Wendland - eager to provide a smokescreen for any issue.
   
2. Doctrinal Pussycat Joel Peterman - looked like he wore his hunting or fishing outfit.
   
3. Miscommunication Officer John Braun - clearly scornful that anyone would disagree with him.
   
4. Professor of Human Sacrifice and World Missions Kenneth Cherney Jr.
   
5. Mary Lou College Professor Thomas Nass

Stop whining. You love these jokes on Ichabod. Everyone else has to be deadly serious.
Some of the defenses of the NNIV were:
1. There are no perfect translations.
2. The committee is against literal translations (but obviously in favor of Leftist paraphrases).
3. This generation must sacrifice to provide a translation for the next generation. (This was an argument for the Shrinkers' Christian Worship feminist hymnal.)
4. Anyone with a heart for outreach will support the NNIV.
5. God works His wonders through really horrible translations.
6. The Baptists are against the NNIV because it competes with their Holman.
7. The NNIV improves on the NIV in some passages. 8. McCain should not have criticized WELS for promoting the NNIV.

The audience was clearly opposed to the NNIV, for the following reasons:
1. The NNIV is divisive, so NPH will not sell many books with NNIV in them.
2. Christian bookstores are boycotting the NNIV at about a 50% rate. The owner of one told the pastor that she would not display the NNIV, only special order it if someone wanted one.
3. The addition of words was truly odious, such as adding "or sister" to references to "brother."
4. The plural pronoun is used to avoid offending the feminazis.
5. The OT prophecies are altered in favor of the scoffers.
6. There is no rush to decide now on a translation.
7. WELS could create its own version (extremely unlikely since they needed Dr. Moo to help them pick a translation). Moo chairs the ecumenical group producing the NNIV, so that was like asking Valleskey to "study" the issue of promoting the Church Growth Movement, something ol' Dave gave his life and flinty soul to do.


Silent or avoiding these issues:
1. The KJV is enjoying its 400th anniversary THIS YEAR, but was hardly mentioned at all.
2. The NIV used a lesbian advocate on its original commission.
3. The NNIV is porno, Genesis 4:1, takes a mythological view of Adam, and deletes verses of the New Testament.
4. WELS let the apostates rule in the previous decision and now thinks in terms of money for the NIV decision.
5. Ichabod - although blogs were mentioned.

Wikipedia

Douglas J. Moo (born March 15, 1950 ^[1]) is a New Testament scholar who, after teaching for more than twenty years at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Illinois, has served as Blanchard Professor of New Testament at the Wheaton College Graduate School since 2000. He received his Ph.D. at the University of St. Andrews, in St. Andrews, Scotland.
He has published several theological works and commentaries on the Bible; notable among them are An Introduction to the New Testament (with D.A. Carson and Leon Morris) and A Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans (part of the New International Commentary on the New Testament series). His current research interests are Romans, Pauline Theology (and Exegesis) and Environmental Theology. He is also on the translation committee that produced the TNIV translation of the Bible and is a strong advocate for this translation.


WELS Adds To Its Sins 

Jim Becker Has a Suggestion 

WELS the Cutting Edge of Dumbing Down 

Ray Klatt on Translations 

WELS Church Lady on NNIV in Texas 

AC V on Grabbing St. Paul by the Shoulders and Teaching Him Justification without Faith 

Zorro on Pushing the NNIV Through...Fast

California Seconds Ray Klatt: The Main Issue - The Bible 

Southern Babtists Utterly Reject the NNIV 

Luther's Bible is the uncle of the KJV. 

Wikipedia Knows More than Mequon.

WELS editor Braun Unglued Over NNIV Objections.

The practicing lesbian on the NIV committee.

South Central District, WELS, against deciding in 2011.

The Process for Getting Rid of the KJV and Installing the NIV.

Even Paul McCain is against the NNIV. Shock!

Criminal Charges against Murdoch 

More about Bad Fathers and Bad Sons, Like Murdoch and Son 

The United Church of Christ and Feminazi Language 

WELS, McCain, and Otten Backing the Wrong Bible 

The Spirit of New Biblism - While Ignoring the 400th Anniversary of Luther's English Bible 

To Be Used at the WELS Convention - Lovin' It 

Tyndale enrolled at Wittenberg to study under Luther and Melanchthon. 

WELS Convention discussion against the NNIV. 

The English Luther Bible:

The July 18th issue of Christian News has an article about translations by WELS Pastor Mark Bartling.

He made an interesting point that will be ignored by all the Lutherans.

Bartling:

"William Tyndale (1490-1536) translated the New Testament into English from Greek. He also used Luther's German translation. In fact, Tyndale personally consulted Luther and enrolled at the University of Wittenberg in order to spend an academic year learning from Luther and his colleague Melanchthon. The first edition of Tyndale's English New Testament was published in 1526. Because it could not be pbulished in England, it was printed in Worms, Germany, a situation made possible because of Tyndale's close relationship with Luther.

In 1535 he published parts of the Old Testament translated from Hebrew. In 1536 Tyndale was captured and burned at the stake."

He noted that experts estimate that the King James Version of the Bible is 80% Tyndale.

Previously, all Lutheran hymnals in America used the KJV. Now every single sect uses a different translation.

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Facts about the CBT (Moo's Herd)

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Brett Meyer's Report on the Discussion

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "WELS Discussion Overwhelming Against NNIV. Transla...":

While watching the Convention discussion on the NNIV tonight I noticed that as each person detailed what they felt were unacceptable problems with the edition the Translation Committee members would remind everyone of the number of improvements that the translation contained over the '84 NIV. What exactly is accomplished by countering a translation problem with a fix to a problem in the previous edition? Most people commenting tonight gave direct examples where the NNIV translation changed the meaning of specific Scripture passages, God's Word.

Christ clearly states the issue is not a matter of offsetting the known problems.
Revelation 22:18-19, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

One man explained how he is seeing a slouching or tenting (a reference to Lot) to Gomorrah with the continued adoption of translations which are as bad or worse than the last. There's no argument there. The words and phrasing may be difficult to understand for those new to the KJV but at least they didn't pervert and outright change God's Word as in the NIV and NNIV. There were a few people who expressed the perverse opinion that it didn't matter how bad a translation the (W)ELS adopts, God will work His will through any translation to make disciples for Christ. Really? It was interesting that Neal Schroeder, the WELS president's brother, expressed the same opinion at the 2011 Emmaus Conference. During the Q&A session he posed the opinion that the Lutheran confession, that we need to ensure the Word is purely taught and Sacraments rightly distributed, is not true. He said he's coming to the opinion that God also works through the Word wrongly taught. Seems this idea is starting to catch on.

To add to Pastor Jackson's list:

One man admitted his opinion that God made a sexist remark when He said "sons" when the context indicated He was including women. (Nobody corrected him.)
In defense of adopting the NNIV, John Braun said with pride that Dr. Moo even approved of the (W)ELS Translation Committees work! (that's a good thing?)
Another layman acknowledged that there were problems with the NNIV but translations will continue to evolve and change. (Just as Christ intended - His Word would evolve and change)
The disjointed pro-NNIV commenter stated that it took way to long to read the KJV but liked how he could read through a whole book of the Bible real fast with the NIV. (Apparently speed is essential)

WLS President Wendland was working the mike, smoothly setting up alternatives to the NNIV adoption so that moments later he could crush the idea as any viable option. John Braun was also active in promoting the NNIV and using the monetary impact to NPH of a delayed adoption by the (W)ELS to further his agenda. Of them all he was the most irritated at the opposition voiced from the floor of the convention. His ties with NPH and the money involved may be enough for the (W)ELS to adopt this heinous Bible translation. Then again, sometimes people get exactly what they asked for.

WELS Favorite Church Also Adopted Early Feminazi Bible Translation. This Is the Next Step

Willow Creek Succumbs To Political Correctness And Splits With Exodus International

Is Willow Creek Community Church more interested in being liked by the world than loving their brothers and sisters in Christ? This may explain their recent split with Exodus International, a group that ministers to homosexuals. From the Christian Post:

Willow Creek Community Church is no longer an affiliate of Exodus International, ending a relationship that spanned across several decades.

Willow Creek spokespersons say they just wanted to rethink the South Barrington megachurch’s affiliations, but Christianity Today reports that Exodus President Alan Chambers believes the church split from his organization to avoid public criticism.
“The choice to end our partnership is definitely something that shines a light on a disappointing trend within parts of the Christian community,” Chambers told the publication, “which is that there are Christians who believe like one another who aren’t willing to stand with one another, simply because they’re afraid of the backlash people will direct their way if they are seen with somebody who might not be politically correct.”

Exodus International is the world’s largest ministry specifically addressing the issue of homosexuality. The organization holds that “Christ offers a healing alternative to those with homosexual tendencies.”

Chambers also said that he sympathizes with organizations that have to deal with political, social, and financial backlash, but says that is just a part of carrying an unpopular Christian message.

“Biblical truth is unpopular, and when you’re supporting unpopular truth, you are unpopular too,” he said.

Reports of the church’s separation from the organization are coming out about two years after the decision was actually made back in 2009. Word of the change surfaced just last month, but prior to that, Willow Creek and Exodus partnered together to reach those in the Chicago-area beginning in the late 1980s.

Exodus previously provided “equipping events” to the church, preparing leaders to minister to those dealing with “unwanted same-sex attractions.” The organization also referred people to Willow Creek’s “A Safe Place” and “Someone I Love” ministries.

Susan DeLay, a spokesperson for the church, emailed The Christian Post about the split, saying, “There really isn’t a story.”

She also sent a statement from Scott Vaudrey, the church’s director of pastoral care and leader of its elder response team, who said, “It is true that Willow Creek discontinued its formal relationship with Exodus. In making this move, we were not making a social or political statement. We were simply in a season of reviewing and clarifying some of our affiliations with outside organizations.”

Only Beggars - Banned in Watertown

http://www.livestream.com/welslive/ -- Shared using Google Toolbar 

Hi Pastor GJ, check out the convention comments in the right margin. Onlybeggars says that Zondervan=Rupert Murdoch, so now onlybeggars has been banned by welslive from future comments.

http://www.livestream.com/welslive/ -- Shared using Google Toolbar there is an Icha-trepid conversation going on. Doug Lindee aka Freddy Finklestein is our hero. I left two comments.

Wendland's Advice Unheeded: 600,000 Page-Reads Since June, 2010,Over 3,000 Page-Reads Already Today.

WELS should heed the advice of Henry Eyster Jacobs,
not the hypocritical warnings of Wendland, Mequon beehive manager.

I was going to post early about the WELS convention being another Methodist gathering, feasting on its old memories, comatose about doctrine, grabbing for signs of hope.

I went to a Methodist gathering 25 years ago because they invited me by mail. Nevertheless, they were surprised to have a visitor and not exactly welcoming. I had lunch with two of the conservatives (Pentecostal types). I thought this exchange was illuminating.

"Did you see the new District Superintendent's column on prayer?" (A DS is a district president - with even less spine.)

"Yes I did."

"That was encouraging. She might work out well."

I was going to post that conversation and use my Dephic Oracle graphic afterwards, when parsons found signs of hope in a given event or election.

WELS started with UOJ. The Kokomo Statements are a "caricature of WELS on justification", a caricature taken almost verbatim from Meyer's Ministers of Christ, which WELS just reprinted this year.

John Braun's Brain Lies A-Moldering in the Grave

Zwingli says the Holy Spirit needs no vehicle, like an oxcart, but UOJ Stormtroopers need a vehicle.
A luxury car is their first choice.

John Braun is stumbling through an address right now. Ineptitude makes everyone say, "I could read a script better than that." Sorrow and pity make them forget that he is delivering more poison.

Once again, he delivered the UOJ message, with some slides, so no one misses the point.

Braun tried to say no one else teaches UOJ, but the Big Four all teach forgiveness without faith, universal absolution, universal salvation. ELCA is no different from WELS in that regard. That is why they work together so well. Ditto the Little Sect on the Prairie (more UOJ) and Missouri (with statues and shrines for the UOJ Kidnapper, Walther).

But I am not yet done. I have read from the Holy of Holies, the WELS Essay Files. (Pause for everyone say, "I am so thankful for being in WELS.') But I have also read hundreds of modern theology books, guided by students of Barth and Tillich.

The mainline churches--the ones behind the Gay Communist National Council of Churches (New RSV, too) and also behind the Stalinist World Council of Churches and Geneva world federations--they all teach UOJ too.

My researchers used to ask, "Where did UOJ go after Knapp taught it at Halle University?" The answer is - "It went mainline."

Sorry, Braun, but grace is not defined as forgiveness without faith. That is the definition of Universalism. First of all, Braun knows nothing about theology or obfuscates without shame. Secondly, he cannot teach the Gospel of the Bible. Instead, he parades the apostasy of all mainline groups as the distinct and precious doctrine of WELS alone.

Church and Change will clap him on the back with a hearty "Attaboy."

SP Schroeder will encourage him, because Mark is in the same mode of thinking, sorry to say. Schroeder's pal Jenswold had the congregation reciting UOJ with him during the sermon.

Buchholz is supposed to be the only reforming DP. He is also a UOJ fanatic, so how can he even address the errors of Change and Change? Naturally, he has not done anything more than posture.

Here is the Gospel in a Few Simple Steps.

WELS cannot teach this Gospel because the Pietists cannot accept the efficacy of the Word alone in the Means of Grace.

NNIV Vote Today - Watch Diaprax at Work

The KJV is 80% Tyndale, and Tyndale enrolled at Wittenberg to study under Luther and Melanchthon.
Tyndale modeled his translation after Luther's.

Convention gawkers will have a chance to see Diaprax at work today. Church Mouse offered some valuable insights about Diaprax, and California added her own experiences from seeing it in WELS many decades ago. She knew the Valleskey, Kelm, Stadler bunch when they were young and foolish.

Diaprax is a process to get people to vote for and go along with whatever the manipulators wanted in the first place.

This is how it will work today. There are only two choices with the NNIV. One is to approve it. The Wisconsin Sect structure, filled with useful idiots, is already behind it 100%, heavily promoting it through the media and the Net (gasp! - does Wendland know?).

If Schroeder has shown any leadership on the issue, I missed it. Another Al Barry, he will continue to pose as a conservative while enabling and rewarding the apostates.

The second choice--the only alternative--is to delay the decision another two years. That comes from Team Patterson, so it smells like skunk cabbage on a humid day. If the convention votes to delay, WELS will have two years to pound everyone into submission. More likely, they will have no trouble passing it the second time around. With Diaprax, people are allowed to howl and moan in a safe situation, without voting. Given a second chance, they go along with the decision.

The third choice will not come up - to repudiate the NNIV now and decide on a KJV edition. That should strike people as ironic, because the Babtists hate the NNIV so much that they voted not to allow sales in their own bookstores. They hate the NNIV and love the KJV, which is really Luther's Bible in English.

The non-Lutherans have kept Luther's Bible in English alive. There are many choices, from the old update of the KJV (around 1800) to the New KJV, Modern KJV, KJV II, and KJV 21st Century. All this talk about a "Lutheran" Bible is silly because a Luther Bible already exists.

The New KJV has a bit of a Babtist tint, because they are behind it. As far as I know, the KJV 21 is the most faithful because only a few words are changed. "Our conversation is in heaven" really means "Our citizenship is in heaven." English has changed, but not so much that:

1. Adam is a myth - NNIV.
   
2. Genesis 4:1 is soft-core porn.
   

Beck was going to be a Lutheran Bible. And there is an Anderson Bible, if memory serves. Then Beck had to be revised and revised all over again. The so-called conservative Lutherans are so busy selling their non-Lutheran Bibles that they should call themselves Babel for confusing the tongues.

What used to be part of our language is now split up into so many versions that people carry around multiple translation editions, which also sell well.

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bored said...

well, yeah. Baptists. Sorry to say, but I'm more apt to invest time in a group of people who are genuinely and culturally mistaken than people (WELS) who purposefully alter Scripture to fit their agenda. Baptist theology may not be any less wrong, but I think the Holy Spirit hardens the hearts of those who purposefully amend and alter the Truth. That is to say, I'd rather talk to Baptists (who read a True Scripture) about Orthodoxy than trying to converse with a WELSian whose Scripture changes with the wind.

The Baptists have a *load* of false doctrine in their Confession, but they still seem to be driven by a preEnlightenment train of thought--a mindset that approaches God with humility

The WELS, on the other hand, is quite postmodern in its doctrine of Justification. They claim all are justified when Christ arose but not really justified at all until a person has faith. UOJ exists, I'm beginning to think, so that pastors can say anything to anyone, diapraxing heathens into faith. So we should not be surprised when the WELS votes to ratify the NIV 2011, which also typifies the postmodern approach toward language.

Out of all the errorists in the WELS, I think half, with a total lack of humility, think of God as a trick miniature pony who can be directed according to the machinations of The Church. The other half of WELS' errorists are like the "artist" who befouls a canvas, then writes a poem about the glory of his own human ingenuity--reveling in himself, not as a means to an end, but as an end itself.

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "NNIV Vote Today - Watch Diaprax at Work":

"...who befouls a canvas..."

um, yeah.

Anyhoo, can't go along with you on the Babtists bein' better than WELS. At least the official confessions of WELS holds to the efficacy of the Means of Grace. In WELS practice maybe not so much, but at least we've got a touchstone on paper to get our bearings.

Lutherdom's Most Wanted Links

C. F. W. Walther kidnapped his niece and nephew from the parsonage of his father, hid them from the police, and left for America early, to escape police warrants for his arrest. The children followed in a later boat, hidden for a time by his lawyers and his future mother-in-law. They died in America.



The sordid truth behind the Walther myth.

Walther Only Kidnapped Two! Children.

Walther, Pietist and Head Case.

Walther Family Felons.

Walther the Mob Leader and Robber.

The Criminal Foundation of the Synodical Conference. 

Walther Sainthood Project.