bored has left a new comment on your post "Calling Doug Lindee. Calling Father Rydecki. You'v...":
Thank you Brett,
Have you read Romans 10:17 in the NNIV? "17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."
"About Christ" in exchange for the previous translation "of Christ"? I don't know Greek, maybe "about" is a proper translation. But the change in meaning sure seems to support what I think about the NNIV translators. They don't believe in a word-by-word verbal inspiration, but a conceptual inspiration. God gave us a Scripture that, ya know, changes with the spirit of the ages. Because "the word of Christ" is sooooo unintelligible in today's English.
If the Greek word in question can be translated either as "about" or "of", fine. Or maybe it's unclear how the word should be translated. But in my perspective (as a total language novice, dare I say idiot) I would expect that a translator would refer to the Gospel of John (which I understand to be very simple Greek) for cues. " ...and the word was God..." is a definition of God that could indicate to the translator the proper way to translate other passages referring to God and his relation to the Word. "Of" supports the belief in the Efficacy of the Word. "About" does not.
I'm probably embarrassing myself here when I'm talking about translation of ancient languages, but it seems like the NNIV translators saw an opportunity to dilute the meaning of Scripture...and hit a homerun.
Please expound and expand on this, Dr. Jackson
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GJ - There are two main Means of Grace chapters in the Bible - Isaiah 55 and Romans 10. The NNIV traducers are like their earlier counterparts, oblivious to the efficacy of the Word in the Means of Grace. I definitely include the LCMS and WELS participants in this farce. McCain is a born-again NIV critic, but I never heard a peep out of him in the many years he has been at CPH. At least, he did not say anything against the CPH NIV line until he had a new Bible to sell - the ESV.
Non-Lutherans and anti-Lutherans cannot grasp the efficacy of the Word because they divorce the Holy Spirit from the Visible Word (the Sacraments) and the invisible Word of teaching and preaching.
NNIV's Romans 10:17 is bad English, even by their low standards.
This is the Jackson Literal Translation:
Therefore faith by hearing, but hearing from the utterance of God.
Jackson Living Translation:
Therefore faith comes from preaching (the Word heard in preaching, based on Luther, Gal 3:2 and 3:5), and preaching from the utterance of God.
LUO Galatians 3:2 Das will ich allein von euch lernen: Habt ihr den Geist empfangen durch des Gesetzes
Werke oder durch die Predigt vom Glauben (preaching of faith, akoe) ?
See Luke 9:45 for people reacting to the utterance of Jesus, the previous verse. The KJV calls it "that saying."
Luke 20:26 is another example of Jesus' divine utterance.
Acts 11:17 is another utterance, translated as Word of the Lord.
Lenski says of rema - utterance -
In the very first place it was ῥῆμα, “utterance,” that fell from Christ’s lips; but it is not like mere human utterances which are soon dissipated and gone, it is living and acts as the medium for producing this ἀκοή that is made to resound in men’s ears, this glad news heard far and wide. In v. 8 Paul said that “we are preaching the utterance of the faith.” He retains the same word “utterance” but now adds the fact that it is Christ’s own, and that the apostles are preaching it as the one mighty medium for the message they make men hear. The article is absent because the quality is stressed; it is “utterance” spoken by the lips.
Lenski, R. C. H.: The Interpretation of St. Paul's Espistle to the Romans. Columbus, Ohio : Lutheran Book Concern, 1936, S. 668.
[Lenski is weak on UOJ.]
Romans 10:17 is therefore one of the most powerful verses in the Bible. Faith comes from hearing the preached Word of God. Some place too much emphasis on the act of hearing, but this is saying in a very condensed way that the act of preaching-hearing generates faith since the Holy Spirit always works through the Word.
So, in one verse, Paul says preaching is the instrument of faith, and that rests on the solemn utterances of Christ, the Son of God.
Luther exemplified this verse in trusting all the beneficial aspects of the Gospel--and the cross--to preaching. He did not entertain, give advice about time management, or help people find more friends.
The answer is to use the English version of Luther's Bible - the King James.
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LPC has left a new comment on your post "Calling Doug Lindee. Calling Father Rydecki. You'v...":
Bored,
You have the right not to stand with them. If these people will only move because there are people behind them, then what is this but another political posturing.
Politicians are like that, they look at what the survey says and they position themselves where the crowd is heading, now is this becoming of ministers?
These people are too far from Ichabodians. Ichabodians have stood and have been maligned and been called names because of their anti-UOJ stance. Ichabodians have stood where they are not because there are so many people in that position, but because it is right and it is Biblical and Confessional.
LPC
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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Calling Doug Lindee. Calling Father Rydecki. You'v...":
Just look at the personal confession of the men and women who translated the NNIV: http://www.niv-cbt.org/translators/
Not one of them has an official confession that does not pervert the Word of God. Not one of them hold a quia subscription to the BOC. And yet this is the translation the (W)ELS has chosen.
I laughed at a restraint sign that now seems to fit the convention discussion on the NNIV to a T. It said, "No senior citizen discounts. You've had twice as long to get the money." Likewise the apostate manipulation board, (W)ELS TEC, had 18 months to review and make a recommendation. Many of the laity had only a few months and they were able to determine that, in the NNIV, God's Word had been subjected to the dull blade of an enemy of Christ in order to produce such a rancid translation. Yet the TEC could only dismiss the errors of the NNIV, magnify any improvements over the equally deficient NIV '84 and attempt to manipulate, through the New Age Hegelian Consensus process, the decisions of the delegates. Instead of complimenting the TEC on the time they wasted on the NNIV there should have been a public lashing for their apostasy, incompetence and trickery. Uuugh! Wendland is the president of the (W)ELS seminary no less!
LPC has left a new comment on your post "Calling Doug Lindee. Calling Father Rydecki. You'v...":
Yes Brett,
I have the books of this man in my shelves. Moo had Lutheran ancestry but who really could not get a clue what Lutheranism taught and he never bothered checking.
These are generic evangelicals. They are both Arminian and Calvinist backgrounds but guess what unites them; they are united in the believe that the HS is not in the Sacraments.
In effect, no means of grace.
NIV is not a translation it is a paraphrase and I can say the same will be for NNIV. NIV is responsible for dumbing down Christians, requiring that the level of terminology be adopted for Year 8.
I know of old people who never finished high school, yet they are more educated than the present generation. Why? Because they were not dumbed down.
LPC
