Multiculturalism explained — questions answered « Churchmouse Campanologist

Multiculturalism explained — questions answered « Churchmouse Campanologist:

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GJ - Selective diversity is already embedded in higher education.

Ichabod, The Glory Has Departed: WELS GA Personality. This Explains the Cover-Up the Felonies Attitude

Ichabod, The Glory Has Departed: WELS GA Personality:


I went through the whole system. Prep was definitely the worst. The "running" by seniors lasted the whole year and some (not all, not by a long shot) was very cruel and humiliating). There are some pastors and teachers who are two and three years than I am to whom I still can't talk because those memories won't go away. I vowed that I would not run freshmen the way I was run (ran?). The seniors said, "We all said that when we were Freshmen. Look at us now." For the most part, though, I kept that promise. The only exception was when I allowed myself to get into a group mentality when I was with a few of my classmates who did like running freshmen. NWC, on the other hand, had the tradition of initiating the freshmen during Homecoming week. Most who were involved with that did it all very tongue and cheek and it didn't carry over throughout the rest of the year. GA at Sem was rumored to be the worst of the bunch. I found that it was actually more of a spoof of initiation than an actual initiation ritual proper. It was sort of, "I got fooled by this when I was a Junior. Now it's your turn." So, there it is. The whole experience wasn't as innocent as some claim (high school was bad), nor as bad as others claim (college and Seminary was almost comical).
P.S. I take it you still haven't figured out the literary reference in my pen name.



'via Blog this'

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Ichabod, The Glory Has Departed: WELS GA Personali...":

Sexta is the ordinal form of Six in Latin:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sexta

When the college and seminary course was six years long (vicarage year was added during the Depression) and another year was added at some point, the classes were named in countdown mode: six, five, four, three, etc. Only in Prep did the classes retain those names, and at Martin Luther Prep in Watertown, they still do. Last time I was there was 2008 or so.

So the Sextas (freshmen) are just out of grade school and away from home, and besides doing their Latin and other homework, they have to clean a room and make the beds of juniors (quartas) and seniors (tertias), endure their harassment and threats, and receive pink bellies and grundies and be at the bottom of monkey piles. The sextas must also act as waitresses in the cafeteria for entire tables getting them juices and water and such for the entire school year, and some of them got hit for being a waitress for entire table of tertias or quartas three or four times a week, or more, as their food got cold. The quintas (sophomores) had no "powers."

I don't know if the "running" or "hazing" and physical abuse still goes on, but I have heard that still in 2005 or so seniors and juniors would put freshmen and sophomores in headlocks and otherwise illegally restrain freshmen, putting them in mental and physical duress.

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GJ - Prep is where the brain-washing and sadism begins. The behavior is often sub-human and encouraged by the graduates of that same system of hazing. Anyone who tells parents is tortured even more, so naturally everyone denies anything has happened.

Mutual blackmail threats also help.

A WELS teacher can murder his wife, lie about it, and get a busload of students plus the college president to back him up at his murder trial (guilty!). But question the infallibility of WELS and the ice curtain comes down faster than rotorless helicopter.

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Ichabod, The Glory Has Departed: WELS GA Personali...":

This is an important point, I think. The pastors I've met who are the most die-hard WELS members, not countenancing much criticism of the WELS, if any, are the very people who didn't go through Northwestern Prep, and thus missed an entire unpleasant year in Sexta, and they also profess to not remembering the Bone Cruncher at the Mequon seminary, or much about GA. However, one pastor who fits the above criterion does, however, remember that Northwestern College initiation was quite unpleasant, especially for being forced to lick a toilet plunger. I don't know if it is Stockholm Syndrome, or what.

The reason I bring this up is I reread an old post you linked to today or yesterday, and find that one of your ardent critics, Michael Schottey, professes to not remembering GA. Maybe if Schottey did remember GA, he wouldn't be such an ardent critic of Ichabod. Also, he'd be like many of us and would be leery of ever recommending someone attend a WELS prep school, and if they were going to go anyway, making sure to warn the person what might be in store for him or her.

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http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2009/10/wels-ga-personality.html

Michael Schottey has left a new comment on your post "WELS GA Personality":

After eight years in the prep/MLC system I don't remember GA. Perhaps I was brainwashed and can't remember it.

And perhaps all of my family and friends who have gone through the Seminary are just really good at lying to me.
 
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GJ - Anyone who criticizes GA is run into the ground. Schottey did not go to seminary, so he had no GA to remember.

During hazing (not GA hazing) one student was knocked unconscious. He remembered.

WorshipOutlet Receives $50,000 Thrivent Grant for Marketing Projects

WorshipOutlet Receives $50,000 Grant for Marketing Projects:

“We are Lutherans developing new and fresh expressions of worship for not only Lutherans but cross denominationally. Our goal is to connect the future to the past through fresh expressions of worship.

“Presently churches from five different denominations use our resources (Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian and Evangelical Non-Denominational). Our resources are the only compressive type available to churches online that we are aware of presently. We offer a complete package for a worship experience that is downloadable and customizable. These resources are easily usable for churches that are liturgical and for churches that are non-liturgical. Since we offer both traditional musical options and contemporary options all types of churches find them extremely helpful. One church in urban Detroit attributes the use of WorshipOutlet’s resources to one of the main reasons they are growing in an urban setting while the churches around them are closing.

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Questions on Sandusky Wrapped in 2005 Gricar Mystery - NYTimes.com

Questions on Sandusky Wrapped in 2005 Gricar Mystery - NYTimes.com:

One of the questions surrounding the sex-abuse case against Jerry Sandusky is why a former district attorney chose not to prosecute the then-Penn State assistant coach in 1998 after reports surfaced that he had inappropriate interactions with a boy.

Mothers of two of Jerry Sandusky's alleged victims lash out at Penn State officials' handling of scandal | PennLive.com

Mothers of two of Jerry Sandusky's alleged victims lash out at Penn State officials' handling of scandal | PennLive.com:

Ten years before he came forward, another child, now 24, had also spoken up. He wasn’t believed. Allegations he made against Sandusky about touching during a shared shower at Penn State in 1998 never resulted in charges.

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Thoughts on the Penn State Debacle - From Bruce Church. "Party in the MLC" - Still on YouTube and FB.

Jerry Sandusky, left, had an office in the athletic complex until last week.
Joe Paterno knew about the scandal in 1998.
Sandusky ran his camp for boys until 2010, at another Penn State campus, the Erie one.
The mothers of the victims were called liars by the university officials.

Sandusky's pedophia in the locker room was known 13 years ago.

How do the victims feel now?

bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "The Denomination as a Football Franchise":

Joe Paterno says he'll retire at the end of the season, his 62nd at Penn State. Athletic directors at Pann State tried to get him to retire back in 2004 and he refused. To me, the fact that he'd only consider retiring at the end of the season shows how he doesn't take his inaction seriously enough, though he could be prosecuted along with his bosses for not going to the police. It's this same lack of seriousness that led him to decide not to report the sexual molestation of a minor to police in the first place. If I were the prosecutor, I'd try to make Paterno wear prison stripes for a few years.

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "The Denomination as a Football Franchise":

Here's an example of whistle blower retaliation from today's news, something that denominations engage in aplenty:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/nov/9/grassley-ex-us-attorney-admits-leaking-fast-and-fu

Former U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke in Arizona, who resigned in the wake of a congressional probe into the Fast and Furious undercover investigation his office oversaw, has admitted leaking a sensitive document about a federal agent who blew the whistle on the gunrunning operation, according to Sen. Chuck Grassley, Iowa Republican.

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "The Denomination as a Football Franchise":

Artist who painted large mural of the Penn State notables, including from the legendary football team, paints over Sandusky's face at request of mother of one of his victims:

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/state_college_mural_artist_to.html

Video:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/45227641#45227641

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Defended by UOJ stalwarts Herman Otten and SP Mark Schroeder:

Party in the MLC - and also by this guy,

A frame-by-frame copy of Party in the Fire Island Pines, except for MLC's self-grope scene.

Excuse #1 - The MLC students did not know what they were doing.
Excuse #2 from SP Schroeder - The MLC students were deliberately mocking homosexual behavior.
The second excuse was endorsed by Herman Otten in Christian News, Page 1.
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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Thoughts on the Penn State Debacle - From Bruce Ch...":

If the MLC performers of the "Fire Island Pines" homoerotic video were ever disciplined, would WELS students rioted? They sure were indignant against Ichabod for reporting the facts. Here's why I ask:

Penn State students riot at firing of coach Joe Paterno and president over enabling the sexual abuse of many (dozens?) of minors:

As if Penn State alumni and donors didn’t have enough reason to hang their heads in shame tonight…:
http://michellemalkin.com/2011/11/10/pinheads-at-penn-state

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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "And I myself, in Rome, heard it said openly in the...":

Speaking of promoting pornography...The (W)ELS still defends the homoerotic Martin Luther College video, Party in the MLC, which was not a parody of Ms. Cyrus' song video but of the video created and published by the homosexuals who attend Fire Island Pines. This video didn't mock the homoerotic behavior of the FIP video but enhanced it. If anything, the video simply added to the homosexual desensitization of thousands of boys and girls.

por·nog·ra·phy   /pɔrˈnɒgrəfi/ Spelled[pawr-nog-ruh-fee] IPAnoun - obscene writings, drawings, photographs, or the like, especially those having little or no artistic merit.

By this definition (W)ELS also promotes and publishes pornography and actively defends it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kSdADOIG3Y
To show that this wasn't received as a mocking sodomy here are comments from the homosexuals regarding the (W)ELS MLC Party in the MLC video:
No. 11 · hephaestion
I don’t see the straight college kids as making fun of the gay video. I thought their video was very cute, and I think they just used the Fire Island video as an excuse to liberate themselves to act silly just as the Fire Island guys were being silly in their video. If the college boys had meant for their video to be anti-gay they would have made it anti-gay with really hideous flaming and an ugly tone to the video. What I see is a fun tone… more like “We like being silly, too.” Not “We hate you and want to dehumanize you.” I really don’t think these are anti-gay kids at ALL. Maybe someone should ask them. Posted: Oct 20, 2009 at 11:25 am · @Reply ·

No. 13 · hardmannyc · Member · 1071 comments
Yeah, they’re making fun of the Pines boys, but affectionately. And I think some of them are cute! Posted: Oct 20, 2009 at 6:32 pm · @Reply ·

No. 14 · Guest
Martin Luther College…not Midland. And these boys are certainly just having fun, no “anti-gay” sentiments here. It was a skit for homecoming. Just a bunch of kids trying to remake a YouTube classic who never thought it would get that many views. Posted: Oct 23, 2009 at 10:39 am · @Reply ·

No. 15 · Alex Taylor
Instead of worring (sic) about this video expressing “anti-gay” sentiments (which I personally don’t think it does), lets have some fun with this and get a friendly debate going…which guy is your favorite? cutest? ugliest? are they straight but still adorable? anyone want to give a critique? Posted: Oct 23, 2009 at 5:34 pm 

Sources Needed, Valued

Teach false doctrine, ordain women - you will drive a fancy boat.
Stick to the Confessions - you will get a free ride out of town, on a rail.
There is an extra charge for the tar and feathers.

A Macedonian cry from the wilderness of a Pietistic sect:

 By the way, you don’t have access, do you, to the primary sources with the Huber information? The Latin documents from the Wittenberg theologians, I mean? I suppose they’re buried in a library in Sweden somewhere. It would be nice to dig deeper.

Post a comment if you have a good link for these materials.

Suggested readings from NPH -

1.  The History of Pietism 
2. Timotheus Verinus.

I imagine there are great finds there. Acey 5 already found some from The History of Pietism. The topic is huge and nebulous.

Otto Heick, my professor, is out of print. I think his two, concise volumes are quite useful for anyone looking up figures, historical context, etc.

Google Books is a great source for out of print books that can be turned into text. Current books are often protected and less useful anyway. Do a Google search and look for the place (marked, very convenient) in the book. You now have the Harvard Library on your computer. Didja know it was built with money from a very wealthy lady who saw her bibliophile drown during the Titanic voyage? Now you do.

Other sects teach objective justification and use the same words. That can be found easily by searching on "objective justification."

Important also are the Olde Synodical Conference leaders who did NOT teach UOJ. One person found Gausewitz.

During the next slowdown I expect to put together some public Dropbox links. You do not need the free software to use public links. But you can do a lot with others if you have Dropbox software and they do too. Private Dropbox sharing is secure, fast, easy. And FREE.

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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Anonymous Coward Still an Anonymous Coward, Talkin...":

Theophilus Grossgebauer signals a return of Huberism in the mid 1600s.

Grossgebauer was a Lutheran pastor in Rostock, who in a critique of the state of the church in his day, says Private Confession is unnecessary because those who come to Private Confession....:

"If he is is repentant, then he already has forgiveness of his sins from God, and the Holy Spirit has given forgiveness to him through the Word of God. If he is unrepentant, then the absolution of the priest is of no help to him.” – Wachterstimme aus dem verwusteten Zion (1661)

Perhaps he learned it from his senior and superintendent in Rostock, Heinrich Muller (1631-1675), who said:

“Modern Christianity has four mute ecclesiastical idols which they follow: the baptismal font, the pulpit, the confessional, and the altar. They take comfort in their external Christianity, that they are baptized, hear God’s Word, go to confession, and receive the Lord’s Supper, but they deny the inner power of Christianity.” – The History of Pietism, Heinrich Schmid p. 6

These quotes are found in "The History of Pietism" by Heinrich Schmid pp.6-12.

The Denomination as a Football Franchise

The First VP of WELS attended Fuller Seminary
and has been echoing their false doctrine ever since.
WELS admires and plagiarizes the false prophets
portrayed as a cloud of witnesses...
to their Father Below.

The Penn State debacle is unraveling fast. Their defensive coach, Jerry Sandusky, used his football connections and his own charity to prey upon young boys. The scandal began in 1998.

Quote from the LA Times: "If they would have done something about it in 1998, and then again in 2002 -- there was two chances, they dropped the ball and I think they should all be held accountable," said the mother of a boy referred to as Victim Six in a grand jury report released Saturday.

A mother said: She added: "I’m infuriated that people would not report something like that .... I still can’t believe it. I’m appalled. I’m shocked. I’m stunned .... They could have prevented this from happening."

The mother said university officials "tried to make my son and the other boy out to be liars."

Denomination officials use the same tactics as the Penn State University executives.

• Never address the real issue, especially when it involves criminal activity.
• Make up an excuse that changes the crime into a misunderstanding.
• Call the victims liars, insane, greedy for money.
• Fire anyone who dares to address the issue.

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The Penn State Alma Mater

by Fred Lewis Pattee

For the glory of old State,
For her founders strong and great,
For the future that we wait,
Raise the song, raise the song.

Sing our love and loyalty,
Sing our hopes that, bright and free,
Rest, O Mother dear, with thee,
All with thee, all with thee.

(Softly)

When we stood at childhood's gate,
Shapeless in the hands of fate,
Thou didst mold us, dear old State,
Dear old State, dear old State.

(Louder)

May no act of ours bring shame
To one heart that loves thy name,
May our lives but swell thy fame,
Dear old State, dear old State.

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Links:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/932252-jerry-sandusky-scandal-ncaa-needs-to-make-example-of-penn-state-with-sanctions http://bleacherreport.com/articles/932164-jerry-sandusky-scandal-what-penn-state-must-do-to-atone-for-sins

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "The Denomination as a Football Franchise":

The spontaneous student pep rally for Penn State's Joe Paterno outside his home, who ought to be doing a perp walk to jail right now, reminds me of the MLC students who took a bus to Arizona to support Al Just during the court hearings over his murdering his wife. It also reminds me of the automatic, unthinking MLC and WLC student support for the makers of a homoerotic video being shown at a pep rally, or whatever it was, at MLC. Then SP Schroeder even lied to Otten in defense of the students. That's like sinking the Titanic (WELS) in order to save a row boat (the morals-challenged students). When will the interests of the WELS and the Kingdom outweigh the interests of nepotism in the WELS? Probably never:

http://www.freep.com/article/20111109/SPORTS08/111109020/Penn-State-students-cheer-Paterno

Police estimated there were about 300 people outside Paterno's home. Officers asked students to leave after Paterno addressed the crowd a second time.

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GJ - College students are not very discerning. They will support someone who appears to be the underdog at the moment. Would they share office space with a known child rapist? Paterno did until last week.

When someone thinks his job is threatened, excuses abound.

Anonymous Coward Still an Anonymous Coward, Talking Down to Joe Krohn. Plus QW Is a Huberist

Quiet WELsian said...
"I didn't misinterpret WELS position on UOJ. I refuted it. Nowhere does it say in the Bible that before we do anything we are forgiven. Which includes being born (as Holy Word and WELS teaches officially) or hearing the Word of God."

Joe- The WELS or any other orthodox Lutheran organizations that accepts UOJ doesn't teach that God communicates forgiveness to people before they believe. This where you're getting everything messed up. It's probably moot to go through this again, considering you've made yourself invincibly ignorant on the subject. But here we go....

There's a difference between saying that God says a thing and that thing it is received. [GJ - The previous sentence makes no sense at all.] If Jesus tells the Church to go out and proclaim the gospel to every living creature, it presupposes that God has pronounced his universal word of grace. If he didn't pronounced  (sic) the word of absolution over the whole world, then why would the Church proclaim the gospel universally ("I absolve you in the name of Jesus") in it's (sic) public preaching? This word is received by faith. So, saying that God has pronounced his word of justification over the whole world is qualified by the fact that 1.) it is mediated through word and sacrament. 2.) that that forgiveness is only communicated to believers through faith. 3.) It hardens and condemns those who reject it.

This is all really simple. I chalk up your rejection of all this to two factors:

1.) Human being (sic) like simple explanatory models. You think things stink in the WELS. The church-growth clap-trap sucks. A lot the pastors and DPs don't do their jobs, etc. Ok. So Jackson comes to you and gives you a simple explanatory model "It's all the fault of UOJ!!" And you think "wow, that's it." Basically I would suggest this is the basis of most of Jackson's appeal. He plays on legitimate concerns, while giving a simple explanatory model. Why things suck in the WELS is more complex and actually probably is more of a function of sinful human nature being sinful human nature. It has very little to do with any make-believe problems with the doctrine of justification.

2.) You're assuming that the word "justification" is being used in the same way in different contexts. So, you assume that justification means to communicate forgiveness and salvation when used in relationship to universal justification. That would be universalism. Do you seriously know anyone in the WELS who literally believes everyone is going to heaven? Come on. This is not the case. Rather, it simply means a not guilty verdict pronounced by God. When we talk about subjective justification though the term is being used with regard to the communication of forgiveness. Theological terms are elastic in many ways and must be understood contextually.
[GJ - Through the Looking Glass - "When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less." 
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." 
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all."]

"You should really take your masks off. You make WELS look even more cultish even though I try to give you the benefit of the doubt."

I'll take off my mask, when all of the other Jackson cultists do.

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GJ - The fake blog is anonymous, and every single writer (perhaps the only one) is anonymous. But this one attaches conditions to revealing his name while attacking Joe Krohn by name.

Mary Lou College and The Sausage Factory tell students not to read Ichabod. If a WELS member posts anything, the WELSian authorities quickly react against that person, to silence him. But they never show the same amount of spine about the gay video, Emergent Church, plagiarizing Groeschel and many cancer nodes.

The anonymous coward is obviously seething with hatred that one of their own Church and Changers has seen the light. I do not think that talking down to Joe is a good way to draw him back into the fold.

Clearly the Shrinkers are boiling over with rage that their UOJ has been assaulted from many quarters. I hasten to remind readers that the key insights (Knapp and Huber) came from WELS laymen, not from me.

The anonymous coward is full of sorrow because the Word of God is efficacious. He should address his rage to the Holy Spirit. All I can do is point people to the sources and clarify some historical issues.

Paul Wendland is right.
We need the New NIV.

Here Is a Good, Fair Review by David Scaer of the Stephan Book

http://www.ctsfw.net/media/pdfs/stephantheologicalobserver.pdf

Volume 724 October 2008

Theological Observer - Martin Stephan:The Other Side of the Story or At Least Part of It

For over a half a century, Walter 0.Foerster's Zion on the Mississippi (CPH, 1953) introduced seminary students to the circumstances of the 1839 Lutheran Saxon immigration which led in 1847 to the founding of The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS), whose chief architect was C. F. W. Walther. The formidable leader in the emigration was the now less-known Martin Stephan, pastor of St. John's in Dresden, who gathered confessional-minded Lutherans for the voyage to America. Chosen as bishop on January 14,1839, as the four ships waited to dislodge their Lutheran passengers in New Orleans on January 29, his episcopacy was short lived. His relations with Louise Guenther, which came to light in her confession on May 5 to Pastor G. H. Loeber, led to his expulsion from the Peny County colony on May 30 and his being escorted across the Mississippi to Illinois, where he died on January 26, 1846. Like the English Pilgrims two hundred years before, these Lutherans had found it increasingly more difficult to practice their faith in a land whose king was Roman Catholic and whose Lutheran pastors were enamored with the Lutheran-Reformed dktente in neighboring Prussia. Though two centuries separate the two migrations, their stories are strikingly similar: flight from oppressive government intrusion, chartering a ship, making a compact (charter) with regulations before landing, the prominence of clerical leadership, and the eventual disbanding of the colony.

During my seminary days (1955-1960), I came to know Phil Stephan, who spoke of his forefather, the ill-fated Bishop Martin Stephan. When I saw that the author of In Pursuit of Religious Freedom: Bihup Martin Stephnn's Journey ([Lanham, MD: Rowman & Littlefield, 2GU8], 327 pages, hardcover) was a certain Philip G. Stephan, I had to assume this was my classmate. Here he tells the other side of the story, which he and other family members have long desired to tell Fascinatingly fold, the book is well documented. Its thirty-three chapters are clustered under eight parts, followed by six appendices containing community regulations, Stephan's investiture as bishop, and 0.H. Walther's hymns written for the sea voyage from Bremen across the Atlantic. Parts one through four tell of the origins of the Saxon Emigration Society and those of Martin Stephan's family in Bohemia, his ministry at St. John's in Dresden, his legal problems over his religious and personal activities, his wife and family, and his departure for America. Part five tells of the group's internal problems, which were exacerbated by a hostile press in St. Louis. Stephan's deposition as bishop is told in part six. Part seven relates his last years in Illinois (1839-1846), his vindication in the courts, and his four-month pastorate in Red Bud, Illinois. In part eight, the author reflects on his forefather's place in history.

A certain bias can be expected in a book written by a descendant of its subject, but in this case it is a useful antidote in coming to terms with a man who, in spite of his infractions, tilled the ground from which the LCMS sprang. Even those who became his critics admired his preaching and his counseling skills, which drew admrers from all over Germany. He and his wife Julia, a woman of high social rank, had twelve children, four of whom died. Three daughters were born deaf and were later institutionalized [GJ - symptoms of congenital syphilis]. Family problems were exacerbated by legal charges, among which was organizing a sect. These proved to be unfounded. Before Stephan left Germany he was placed under house arrest for one year and could not minister to his congregation. He suffered from eczema [GJ - more likely syphilis], especially on his feet, a disease often caused by anxiety, and sought relief at the baths in Radeberg, a village twenty miles away from Dresden. There he gathered a group of followers, Louise Guenther among them. In her twenties and about thirty years younger than Stephan, she emigrated with him, was in charge of acquisitions for the society, and served as his housekeeper in his last years. This relationship has arguably prevented putting his detractors under the same scrutiny they applied to him and allowed others to attribute to him views he did not hold. For example, Stephan was not a chiliast, as Paul Burgdorf claimed (54).

The most intriguing, and perhaps tragic, part of Stephan's life is told in part six, "Deposing a Bishop." Shortly after arriving in this country, Stephan encountered bad press in St. Louis about his handling of the Emigration Society's property. When Pastor Georg Loeber shared Louise Guenthef's confession with Pastors Keyl, Buerger, and C. F. W. Walther, they were embarrassed by their published defense of their bishop (May 4, 1839), which they retracted on May 27. Assisting them in their intent to remove Stephan were the attorneys Vehse and Marbach (182). Louise Guenther was unaware that her private confession had become the reason for deposing Stephan as bishop. Though all this had become public knowledge, only on May 28 was Stephan confronted by a deposition signed by the pastors demanding his resignation. These pastors served as his accusers and his judges in requiring him to leave the community. At first Stephan refused what he considered an illegally constituted tribunal, but, in seeing a mob armed with whips outside his cabin, he acquiesced and was deprived of his possessions. He was bodily searched and was given only a shovel and pick to make a living and clothing which did not ward off the cold of winter (190, 237-238). His being forcibly taken to Illinois could legitimately be seen as kidnapping (247). Stephan's last years (1839-1846)were lived in pathetic misery. Once he returned to the colony for medicine, food, and clothing, but was refused. Loeber went to Kaskaskia to give him communion under the condition that he sign a confession. He refused (229). Four months before his death he became the pastor of Trinity Lutheran Church in Red Bud, Illinois, where he lies buried.

In the minds of his accusers and in common synod folklore, Stephan deserved all the misfortune he experienced, but this hardly exonerates those who administered it. First, a confession made privately to a pastor is privileged information. It is one thing to ask the advice of other clergy and another thing to make it public, as Loeber and others did. On July 7, the same pastor told the congregation that two or three other women had come forward with the same claims. One of them wrote a letter withdrawing her allegations. Though current LCMS guidelines disallow making confessions public, the disposal of Stephan might be a warning for some to withhold potentially disastrous sins from their pastor (200-201). What was then considered a sacrament is looked on with suspicion now. Another unresolved issue is the society's forcing Stephan to surrender his personal belongings and property. Stephan's son, also Martin (V), returned to Germany where he studied architecture. After his mother's death, he returned to St. Louis and graduated from the seminary (1853).Walther's attitude to him as a student, and then as a pastor, was hardly positive. On one occasion the younger Mamn was publicly called a "Judas." The book recounts how the seminary president persuaded him to relinquish all claims to the family property (269). This harassment continued into his ministry. He used his architectural skills acquired in Germany to design buildings for the seminary and several churches. The amazing legacy of the Stephan family is that, in spite of both proven and unproven allegations against their forefather, four generations served as pastors in the synod.

While the synod's crucial events 170 years ago may seem remote, those who choose to ignore them, as they are presented from another perspective, are depriving of themselves of coming face to face with an account of how we came to be as a synod. Things may not be as golden as we thought. The Lutheran Saxon experiment in Missouri was, in a way, an attempt to set up the kingdom of God on earth (hence the title Zion on the Mississippi).Quakers were doing the same thing in New Harmony, Indiana, as were the Mormons, first in Nauvoo, Illinois, and eventually in Salt Lake City. This is the dilemma of any church which sees itself as the true, visible church on earth. It may be that there is a little bit of chiliasm in our history, but then reality sets in. These Lutheran immigrants exchanged one set of problems in Germany for another set in America. Some of the problems faced in Germany in the first half of the nineteenth century reared their heads in the latter half of the twentieth century in America and, ironically, in St. Louis where the forefathers had come to find r&fuge from them. If there is a parable here, it is that we can never run away from problems without exchanging them for others, or maybe the same ones.

Should In Pursuif of Religious Freedom have a rightly deserved second printing, a few changes might be in order. In reference to a church government supervised by a bishop, "episcopal" should be substituted for "Episcopal" (e.g., 267, which refers to a denomination. German verbs appearing in an English language manuscript should be lower case (enoeckt), not upper case (29). Nouns are reversed: not beichfvater but Beichbater (65), preferably in italics. Followers of Pietism at the University of Leipzig are calied "Disciples of Christ" (67) but should be "disciples of Christ." The third ship carrying the Saxon immigrants amved on January 12, 1839, not 1838 (129). Since its passengers lefi on November 12, 1838, they would have anived in New Orleans before they left Bremen. Loeber's Rogate Sermon, which stirred the conscience of Louise Guenther, was preached on May 5, 1839, not March 5 (179). "Sacrament of holy absolution" should be either all lower or upper caw, not both (266). "Emigration Society," yes, but the author does not address why they used the title "Society" (e.g., 8-9).

Its author has not yet responded to my letter sent in care of his publisher to confirm that we were once seminary classmates. If the heroic element of Bishop Stephan's story is that his family continued to give pastors to the LCMS for over a century after he was deposed, the tragic element is that the one descendant who wrote a book to show the other side of the story is no longer a pastor of the synod of which his great-great-grandfather was really the patriarch. Other classmates took the same path. That is a tragedy, too. Some have left the church. This is still even a worse tragedy, all of which is the subject for some other historian to recount. [GJ - The Stephan family was quite gracious, staying with the sect that robbed them of a fortune and elevated Walther to divine, infallible status.] David P. Scaer

Anti-NNIV WELS Meeting in New Ulm

After getting a parking ticket at Martin Luther College,
one pastor suddenly realized what the problem was.

The Issues in WELS group, once scattered like Silly Putty hit with a hammer, has gathered together again to fight against the NNIV.

They are meeting in New Ulm at this time. I did not get an invite but only heard about it on the Net. I could identify the source, but he or she would never be heard from again.

I doubt whether they are using the Martin Luther College campus. Still, I had this great photo of their parking lot sign.

The support of the NNIV and ESV during the 400th anniversary of the KJV is ample testimony to the degradation and perversion of the teaching faculties of Lutherdom. There may be a Lutheran holdover here and there, but readers can be sure that anyone suspected of Confessional fidelity has a job in peril.

Ben Wink - On Joe Krohn and Martin Luther College

Ben Wink has left a new comment on your post "Joe Krohn Responds Again to the Nameless Cowards o...":

Going back over the letters and emails that were posted, I must believe that Quiet WELSian (may not be real name) had to have been reading the wrong letters. I see a lay member asking questions, wanting clarifications in an effort to learn and grow in faith. Isn't that a part of making disciples? I see too much emphasis on just spreading the Word, but not enough emphasis on teaching the Word, explaining it, examining it. I see a church refusing to go over major doctrinal areas with a member. And this was just the beginning of the snowball going down the mountain.

I don't care if you are a pastor, a district president, a synod president, if a member has a question regarding essential Christian foundations, you take the time to answer them. The responses from Joe betray that he is a student of Lutheran doctrine, his quotes alone are evidence of that. The responses from the church consist of saying there will be no discussion, repent and shut up or else, with not even token Scripture passages included.

On a separate note regarding something I saw in the FIC for the WELS 2011 Worship Conference. Over 850 attendees. WOW! And 150 students in the youth choirs! YOWZA! I can now see that the new MLC chapel could never have held that many people. Of course, if you go to the MLC website it states:

"What are the general requirements for this chapel?
■
Seating capacity: 1000 for worshipers, an additional 100 for choir, and overflow seating for 200; flexible seating preferred"

Hmmm...so that chapel can fit 1200 derrieres and over 850 showed up. Gosh that's quite the discrepancy and apparently no one read the PR on the website. Then again I can remember that math was not emphasized when I went to MLC, so why should that change anytime soon?

On a related note, they must have sent out a pamphlet explaining all the various reasons why they had to use an ELCA chapel after reading Ichabod. I overheard a pastor that was headed to the conference reciting almost point for point as to why MLC wasn't suitable: no A/C, not big enough, cafeteria issues, yadda yadda, blah blah, etc. Almost verbatim from what was brought up on Ichabod.

Boy the party line comes out in full force. Sad. Of course now it is quite a bit after the fact so who would really care, right?

http://www.wels.net/worship/about-national-worship-conference

http://www.mlc-wels.edu/home/administration/board/chapelfaq/?searchterm=chapel seating 

***

GJ - Joe can answer this better than I can, but I saw Joe asking questions and being immediately kicked out and trashed, with his wife Lisa. They would not meet with them except to tell off Joe and Lisa while they listened in silence. Ex-SP Gurgle would not even answer an email question.

My experience was this - the WELS pastors could do the repeat-after-me stuff, but they went into panic when I asked probing questions. In fact, I was told that I unraveled people by going to them directly, knocking them off their memorized answers. In spite of what they urge, the leaders do NOT want anyone to go to them and ask questions.

The issue in the Big Four is total control, not doctrinal fidelity. That is why God is letting them crash and burn, poisoning themselves with their own false doctrine.

---

LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Ben Wink - On Joe Krohn and Martin Luther College":

Actually it was DP Glaeske that would not answer an email question.

Pr. Gurgel did meet with us graciously on two occasions in our home. Although we could not come to a consensus on terminology, he did not believe our confession was anything damning to our faith and left us feeling (his feeling) that we were probably saying the same things. I believe I did knock him off his memorized answers a couple of times.

Ben Wink is correct in his objective observations.

I asked on more than one occasion to meet with the elders to discuss justification. If anything, they begged us to meet re: fellowship. Why I do not know since we were already excommunicated. We did know what that meant already. But then they turned around and told the voting assembly that they extended invitations to meet about doctrine and that we refused. That led the voters to believe it was about justification when it wasn't.

***

GJ - For precise details, check with Joe Krohn's blog. WELS does not rise above repeating the same old talking points, which contradict each other. The leaders are deathly afraid that the laity will study the Book of Concord, read the KJV, and take appropriate action. They would rather have people pay, pray, and obey. That is why WLC felt comfortable inviting featuring a Roman Catholic archbishop as a speaker (not to mention a few of his priests). They have the same attitude toward infallible leaders and an indefectible church body. Not only that - WELS and the Church of Rome are identical in starting worship conferences with a cash bar for their alcoholics. "Bottoms up!" - as they say without blushing.

---

1580 has left a new comment on your post "Ben Wink - On Joe Krohn and Martin Luther College":

"I don't care if you are a pastor, a district president, a synod president, if a member has a question regarding essential Christian foundations, you take the time to answer them."

I completely agree with you. When I was in high school I sent an e-mail to the Dean of Students at Luther Prep, asking him about UOJ. Knowing this guy, he checks his e-mail constantly -- but failed to ever respond to my e-mail. Sad.

About the MLC Chapel: Sure enough when WELS has one good thing, a solid reverent chapel, they screw it up and put a $40,000 dollar projector in there. During the sermonette the other night it was used to give visuals like we were 5 years old. It was distracting to say the least. On top of that, during the rest of the service it read "Give me an undivided heart." It's ironic that it said that but the reality of the situation was that it gave me a divided heart because I kept looking at the screen instead of the massive cross hanging from the ceiling. I find the screen a stumbling block to my faith and concentration on the Word.

P.S. I hear they're waiting on another "gift" to put in another screen.

Intrepid Lutherans: A Little Touch of Marty In the Night

Intrepid Lutherans: A Little Touch of Marty In the Night:



(My apologies to the immortal Bard. I hope to make this a regular feature on IL, and that you find it interesting and edifying, and that it might generate fruitful discussion.)

From the Large Catechism of Dr. Martin Luther, comments on the Third Commandment, beginning at paragraph 87, from the online edition of the Book of Concord:

87] Accordingly, when asked, What is meant by the commandment: Thou shalt sanctify the holy day? answer: To sanctify the holy day is the same as to keep it holy. But what is meant by keeping it holy? Nothing else than to be occupied in holy words, works, and life. For the day needs no sanctification for itself; for in itself it has been created holy [from the beginning of the creation it was
sanctified by its Creator]. But God desires it to be holy to you. Therefore it becomes holy or unholy on your account, according as you are occupied on the same with things that are holy or unholy. 88]

How, then, does such sanctification take place? Not in this manner, that [with folded hands] we sit behind the stove and do no rough [external] work, or deck ourselves with a wreath and put on our best clothes, but (as has been said) that we occupy ourselves with God's Word, and exercise ourselves therein. 89]

And, indeed we Christians ought always to keep such a holy day, and be occupied with nothing but holy things, i.e., daily be engaged upon God's Word, and carry it in our hearts and upon our lips. But (as has been said) since we do not at all times have leisure, we must devote several hours a week for the sake of the young, or at least a day for the sake of the entire multitude, to being concerned about this alone, and especially urge the Ten Commandments, the Creed, and the Lord's Prayer, and thus direct our whole life and being according to God's Word. 90]

At whatever time, then, this is being observed and practised, there a true holy day is being kept; otherwise it shall not be called a Christians' holy day. For, indeed, non-Christians can also cease from work and be idle, just as the entire swarm of our ecclesiastics, who stand daily in the churches, singing, and ringing bells but keeping no holy day holy, because they neither preach nor
practise God's Word, but teach and live contrary to it. 91]

For the Word of God is the sanctuary above all sanctuaries, yea, the only one which we Christians know and have. For though we had the bones of all the saints or all holy and consecrated garments upon a heap, still that would help us nothing; for all that is a dead thing which can sanctify nobody. But God's Word is the treasure which sanctifies everything, and by which even all the saints
themselves were sanctified. At whatever hour, then, God's Word is taught, preached, heard, read or meditated upon, there the person, day, and work are sanctified thereby, not because of the external work, but because of the Word, which makes saints of us all. 92]

Therefore I constantly say that all our life and work must be ordered according to God's Word, if it is to be God-pleasing or holy. Where this is done, this commandment is in force and being fulfilled. 93]

On the contrary, any observance or work that is practised without God's Word is unholy before God, no matter how brilliantly it may shine, even though it be covered with relics, such as the fictitious spiritual orders, which know nothing of God's Word and seek holiness in their own works. 94]

Note, therefore, that the force and power of this commandment lies not in the resting, but in the sanctifying, so that to this day belongs a special holy exercise. For other works and occupations are not properly called holy exercises, unless the man himself be first holy. But here a work is to be done
by which man is himself made holy, which is done (as we have heard) alone through God's Word. For this, then, fixed places, times, persons, and the entire external order of worship have been created and appointed, so that it may be publicly in operation. 95]

Since, therefore, so much depends upon God's Word that without it no holy day can be sanctified, we must know that God insists upon a strict observance of this commandment, and will punish all who despise His Word and are not willing to hear and learn it, especially at the time appointed for the purpose. 96]

Therefore not only those sin against this commandment who grossly misuse and desecrate the holy day, as those who on account of their greed or frivolity neglect to hear God's Word or lie in taverns and are dead drunk like swine; but also that other crowd, who listen to God's Word as to any other trifle, and only from custom come to preaching, and go away again, and at the end of the year know as little of it as at the beginning. 97]

For hitherto the opinion prevailed that you had properly hallowed Sunday when you had heard a mass or the Gospel read; but no one cared for God's Word, as also no one taught it. Now, while we have God's Word, we nevertheless do not correct the abuse; we suffer ourselves to be preached to and admonished, but we listen without seriousness and care. 98]

Know, therefore, that you must be concerned not only about hearing, but also about learning and retaining it in memory, and do not think that it is optional with you or of no great importance, but that it is God's commandment, who will require of you how you have heard, learned, and honored His Word. 99]

Likewise those fastidious spirits are to be reproved who, when they have heard a sermon or two, find it tedious and dull, thinking that they know all that well enough, and need no more instruction. For just that is the sin which has been hitherto reckoned among mortal sins, and is called torpor or satiety, a malignant, dangerous plague with which the devil bewitches and deceives the hearts of many, that he may surprise us and secretly withdraw God's Word from us. 100]

For let me tell you this, even though you know it perfectly and be already master in all things, still you are daily in the dominion of the devil, who ceases neither day nor night to steal unawares upon you, to kindle in your heart unbelief and wicked thoughts against the foregoing and all the commandments. Therefore you must always have God's Word in your heart, upon your lips, and in your ears. But where the heart is idle, and the Word does not sound, he breaks in and has done the damage before we are aware. 101] On the other hand, such is the efficacy of the Word, whenever it is seriously contemplated, heard, and used, that it is bound never to be without fruit, but always awakens new understanding, pleasure, and devoutness, and produces a pure heart and pure thoughts. For these words are not inoperative or dead, but creative, living words. 102]  And even though no other interest or necessity impel us, yet this ought to urge every one thereunto, because thereby the devil is put to Right and driven away, and, besides, this commandment is fulfilled, and [this exercise in the Word] is more pleasing to God than any work of hypocrisy, however brilliant.


Now, dear Readers, considering what Father Martin says here about the importance of focusing the worship service on Christ, His holy Word, and His Sacraments, and the fact that many erroneously labeled "contemporary" church services have so little Scripture in them - perhaps one reading at most, and that often quite short - and the Sacrament seldom to be seen, what might be said about such modern erstwhile worship gatherings? Comments anyone?


Pastor Spencer


'via Blog this'

Joe Krohn Responds Again to the Nameless Cowards of Fox Valley

Their Daddy Warbucks give them courage.

"Why dost thou disquiet me and bring me up?"

If I didn't know better, I would say Quiet WELSian is a member of Holy Word. You seem to have the same issues that Matt Wordell had.

I didn't misinterpret WELS position on UOJ. I refuted it. Nowhere does it say in the Bible that before we do anything we are forgiven. Which includes being born (as Holy Word and WELS teaches officially) or hearing the Word of God. I used solid scripture to back my position and they used Schaller, Buchholz and WELS 'This We Believe".

I keep getting accused of listening to Jackson and Meyer. I probably don't have half the brain that you do. I'm sorry.

But what of the Intrepid Lutherans? Rydecki and Spencer et al; they must be misinterpreting too, huh? Oh oh... :)

Joe

PS...You should really take your masks off. You make WELS look even more cultish even though I try to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Let the Counting Begin. How Many Times Can Tiefel Quote Moo?Mequon a New Moo U.? I found 13 Moo's.

"I can hit a C over G in my Spanks.
I can hit a light-pole in my car."

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "The Foxes and Vixens of Appleton Pretty Much Talk ...":

(W)ELS gives birth to a two-headed calf. Another essay meant to prop up the dead cat UOJ and the other grotesque protuberance the NNIV.

http://scdwels.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/2011-10-tiefel-paper.pdf

Tiefel, "In NIV11, I do not see a Reformed coup. I see an unsurpassed group of scholars doing what they can to produce an inclusive translation in the hopes that a large majority of readers, including those whom we have not yet met, might use it in learning and discussing doctrine in modern English."

PS:
How many times can one (W)ELSian approvingly quote Douglas Moo in an essay on Justification?

***

GJ - Let's get a count of Moo quotations.

The original nickname of the first Wisconsin Lutheran College was Moo U.

Now Mequon can safely be called Moo U. as the faculty rush around trying to justify their porno-mytho NNIV. They will get what they want, because SP Mark Schroeder has already capitulated as a synodical leaders. Besides, he loves UOJ and the NNIV proves what WELS and all the mainline apostate denominations believer - everyone is born forgiven, absolved, saved.

Dr. Lio Cruz Pretty Much Flattens Appleton Thugs. Can Sausage Factory Grads Read with Comprehension?

Dr. Lito Cruz earned a PhD in math,
but he also studied theology and Greek.

LPC said...

Quiet WELsian,

Dr. Jackson is correct, you lot do not know how to read. Though I am not a native English speaker and I awkwardly write, I can be forgiven for this.

However, you could have done better in reading the question I have posed.

 There are two questions. "What do you teach is the basis of predestination?

The proper response should begin by saying ... The basis of predestination is _____________.

 I did not ask how predestination happens, rather what is the basis of it, why it happens, not how. 

The second is Does God predestine people according to his decree?"

I am waiting for a simple yes or no, or if you will, repose the question and give reasons why the question is not a proper question to ask.

Did I get it? Nope.

 Also I am in touch with the Real Brett Meyer, and the Brett Meyer who commented in this thread is a fake

So sad, this is a fake Ichabod and the commenters are fake too.

There is no shame in your crowd and there is no limit on the tactics you will employ.

LPC

***

Shepherds need not apply.

GJ - In German, shameless is considered the worst possible verdict on anyone. The word fits the Northern Anything Goes District of WELS, especially Fox Valley, where the plagiarism of false teachers is accepted, praised, and rewarded.

I was teaching computer science class in Glendale when the students began laughing at a Viet Namese man (new arrival) who was actively participating in class in English. I said, "I would like to move all of you to Viet Nam, expect you to read the textbook in Vietnamese, and answer Vietnamese questions in that language. What a laugh that would be."

Lito uses some idioms that show his first language is not English. But does he blast people anonymously saying "pretty much" every few sentences? The Fox Valley vulpines should not call attention to their limitation in language, whether in reading or writing.

Lito is a cogent writer who has struggled with false doctrine from a variety of sources. The people who have been bounced around by various doctrinal claims are often more discerning than those who lay claim to being born Lutheran (a concept so dumb that Nicodemus did not think to ask about it in John 3).

I cannot even imagine trying for a doctorate in math. I have noticed that people with analytical training in math and science are especially good at examining arguments. Our best friend at Yale earned an MD and PhD at Yale Medical School, then worked at Harvard Medical. He could destroy bad argumentation with a few, amused questions. When LI was very young, he heard his godfather discussing a topic. LI said, "You are a pretty bright fellow." Bruce stopped and smiled warmly.

I hear from many laity. They have a better grasp of Christian doctrine than most clergy. They read the Word with humility and ask questions. They do not grab St. Paul by the shoulders and say, "This is what you should have written! I know what you really mean."

I pity Tim Glende and his crowd. Tim grew up in a fake church, St. Paul in German Village. The congregation pretended to be WELS to grab members, but had open communion, communion of Masonic members, boy scouts (gasp!), women voters, and women teaching men. The pastor never even brought up joining WELS. It was too cool to be fake WELS, having the best of both worlds. WELS listed them as a member congregation, too. Lying is fun and productive.

Tim Glende's congregation encouraged Floyd Luther Stolzenburg to pretend he was still a pastor, even though he was kicked out of the LCMS for adultery and sued by the husband of one mistress. One LCMS colleague said, "He betrayed his wife, his children, his congregation, and his conservative friends." A co-pastor said, "Floyd destroyed everything I had."

Floyd could not get a job in the school system or at any church. I wonder why. WELS arranged for him to be a fake pastor, a Church Growth Consultant, with a grant from one of their members, George Skestos. George went to church with his wife at St. Paul, with his future wife to Prince of Peace. When Floyd was done wrecking things, WELS endorsed him for a job at his current church, so he could be a pastor again. WELS enjoys feeding sheep to wolves - it's what they do for fun.

Poor Tim Glende went to Michigan Lutheran Seminary, where John Lawrenz pretended to be a Lutheran. Unknown to many at the time, John was a leader in Church and Change. Lawrenz earned a PhD at a Jewish school. Why doesn't Tim denounce John on his fake blog? I know - because John is a Changer, a beloved member of the wolfpack.

Glende went to Northwestern College, closed by the Changers, and then to The Sausage Factory, where the professors pretend to be Lutheran but only care about:

• Universal Objective Justification,
• Church Growth plagiarism.

Poor Tim Glende cannot preach from the Scriptures, so he plagiarizes Groeschel, with the support of his DP, a fake leader.

The fakery is unending. St. Peter pretends that The CORE is another congregation, but it has never been a separate parish. The CORE is simply an evening service downtown, to gather all the Shrinkers and area youth together. Ski and Glende coordinate their Groeschel plagiarism. Ski is listed on the staff of St. Peter, Freedom. Everyone winks and chuckles at their fakery and sheep-stealing from area WELS churches.

When Glende was writing anonymous, nasty comments on this blog, I called him Anonymouse. He began his fake Ichabod blog and the even nastier Anonymouse blog. Poor Tim Glende cannot create anything, so he copies. Like Patterson, he ducked direct communication once I identified where the comments were coming from.

Poor Tim Glende is headed for a bad ending, I am afraid. His home congregation mis-trained him and turned the Ten Commandments upside-down. The process continued throughout his parochial education, where he was trained against the Confessions while brain-washing him about the infallibility of WELS. Getting away with bullying is not success. Being supported in plagiarizing false doctrine is not reason for boasting.

Those who teach universal justification and universal absolution are always anxious to justify themselves - albeit anonymousely.

The Foxes and Vixens of Appleton Pretty Much Talk Down To Joe Krohn. Why Is WELS Shrinking So Fast? Pretty Much This Is Why

Quiet WELsian said...
Joe-

Though I'm sorry for your plight, I'm afraid I'm not hugely sympathetic to your complaints about how you were treated on this blog. I remember reading the post and all the guy said to you is that he didn't consider it your fault for getting excommunicated because you obviously weren't taught the doctrine of justification correctly. You really shouldn't have put those letters between you and your church up on your blog. They didn't make you seem sympathetic at all. Rather, what it looked it is this: your pastor and the DP got that you pretty much were misinterpreting the WELS' position on objective justification.

Why didn't Kudu Don Patterson excommunicate Chad White for
attending Exponential in Orlando?
Because Patterson took him and other WELS staffers.
It was a package deal.

They basically begged you to come in and talk to them so that the correct understanding of the position of the Synod could be explain to you. You got up on your high-horse and arrogantly refused to do so. Bear in mind, I find it highly unlikely that they actually believe you to be a heretic in the substance of the faith. Rather, they excommunicated you for the same reason that the authors of the Formula of Concord rejected Flacius' way of talking about original sin: Certain ways of speaking about the faith tend to lead other people astray by giving them false impressions about different doctrines.

They couldn't have you going around their church and saying that the WELS was heretical because of UOJ (which you oddly seem to believe is universalism based on Jackson's false teaching) and therefore confusing the other members into some sort of Pietistic clap-trap about their faith causing God's verdict of justification. I realize in your mind that you're some sort of great persecuted heroic figure who has stood up for the faith. But I, and pretty much everyone else I know who reads your blog sees it differently. Rather, like Flacius you're guy who wouldn't listen to others when they tried to explain to you that you were using terminology that hurts the proper understanding of the faith. I guess what I would say to you is this: maybe you should start listening to some other voices than those of Jackson and Brett Meyer.

***

GJ - "Methinks the lady doth protest too much." Fox Valley, where they excommunicate for asking questions, has to show solidarity with Kudu Don Patterson, who excommunicates (with the blessing of ex-SP Gurgle) for asking questions.

See what The Latin Professor wrote about WELS. Although the clergy were spiteful, vindictive liars in both cases, they did their members a favor by revealing their slavering fangs and raking claws. They are passionate about sharing Jesus Groeschel.

Mammonize it: LCMS at the White House

Mammonize it: LCMS at the White House:

'via Blog this'

Transforming Church Network promised to transform the synod and it did.

The Chicago Way is ---“Pay to Play”. Adjust the particulars (of conscience/faith) and sell out the folks for Money.

Funds are denied to those that will not adjust for the right social contract.

The LCMS NID adoption agency, recipient of taxpayer funds, placed children in same sex homes, (9-15-2011)---- that item conveniently disappeared into the memory hole.

Fox Valley Jimmie Anonymously Defends Anonymous Attacks

Fox Valley Jimmy

Fox Valley Jimmy said... Jackson writes on his blog:

"This is a bit too obvious to mention - these sob-sisters have always posted anonymously, yet they attack people by name."

Huh?

So, it's cool to attack people anonymously on your blog (i.e, half the people who comment on your posts), but elsewhere it's immoral? Just like it's bad for people to get non-synodical degrees, except when you get one? Or how it's bad to slander people, except when half the stuff on your blog is a lie. Ok, I get it.

I look forward to the self-righteous and hypocritical response over at the Ichabode!

***

GJ - I look forward to the page-read figures when the foxes and vixens of Appleton are busy writing.

Strangers to the WELS cult need to realize that the clergy think they have a right to engage in ad hominem attacks whenever their false doctrine is questioned. The readers who post on this blog like to address the issues of false doctrine, the purpose for this little Internet effort.

No one reads Ichabod, Appletonians agree. There were 2,000 page-reads today. I write all my own comments, they claim - which I means I took time to write 15,000 comments in the last few years, many of them coming (as if by magic) from Garland, Texas (hometown, Don Patterson, a co-inky-dink) and Appleton (the rotten CORE of WELS).

The Latin Professor Comments on WELS - Yes, He Is a WELS Pastor

This pusillanimous little church body doesn’t do much at all, and what she does, she doesn’t do very well, but a couple of things she does extremely well –


a.) brainwash her teachers and pastors into thinking that she is as perfect and clean as the wind-driven snows of northern Wisconsin, and


b.) punish severely and thoroughly anyone and everyone, sooner or later, who either refuses to be brainwashed thusly, or breaks free of the WELSian mind-control, or, even worse, breaks free and then, horror of horrors, encourages others to attempt to do so!

The Appleton Fakes Reveal Their Paucity of Common Sense, Reading Comprehension, and Logic.

When Appletonians pontificate,
even the babies face palm.

Jackson is now doing his typical thing of distracting from the real issue and claiming that I was justifying impersonation on this blog when I said that the fake-Brett Meyer quote was not slander. That is not true. IMPERSONATION IS WRONG. Let me be clear about that. My point was only that it was not slander. Slander is telling lies about someone in an attempt to make them look bad. My point was merely that whoever pretended to be Brett Meyer was not engaging in slander because they were not telling lies about his positions on things. Rather they were making him look bad by telling people what he normally says. Jackson as usual is simply changing the subject in order to distract from the real issue. Also, why does he have a picture of J.I. Packer? What does the LCMS' acceptance of the ESV have to do with any of this?

***

GJ - Some people think that Joel Lillo is in on this. The Appleton gang are all peas in a pod, so it does not matter. WELS funded Church and Change because the leaders of Church and Change were synod officers. Oh, it is so much fun to spend other people's money.

Fox Valley was developed as an all Church and Change doctrinal slum. Steve Witte served two different congregations in the same area. How often does that happen? Ethical leaders avoid that, but ethical leaders are in short supply in these last days of an insane, old world.

The members and pastors sat on their hands, letting a brush fire turn into a forest fire. Now they are watching it burn down while their cluck their tongues.

Above is one of those self-absolving excuses that energize WELS. Impersonating someone is not just wrong - it is a crime. For some reason, that crime keeps happening with the same group of thugs. The post excuses the crime, even though the whole idea was to create a bad impression using the disguise of another person.

The pastors involved pretend not to know who is doing what, but that is typical GA double-talk. They were born forgiven, so that allows them to do whatever they want. No wonder the only doctrine they defend is their toxic UOJ opinion. Nothing gets a WELSian frothier than justification by faith. It is almost like transporting the Pharisees to the 21st century.

This is a bit too obvious to mention - these sob-sisters have always posted anonymously, yet they attack people by name. That is the template for the WELS Shrinkers. They hide behind their "WELS Grapevine" and drop stinkbombs on their fellow pastors - by name. They always use personal attacks. John Lawrenz did not like the Harold Sauer paper, so he said to me, "His parish is dead!" Meanwhile, Lawrenz was denouncing Sauer for "naming names." Of course, Sauer was naming the false teachers in WELS, the Church and Chicanery brotherhood. Sauer's paper was quite kindly, just as he was.

The WELS Grapevine said Corky criticized their precious Church Growth and amalgamation because he was "brain-damaged." The former seminary president, Schuetze, opposed closing NWC because "he was senile."