Ben Wink has left a new comment on your post "Joe Krohn Responds Again to the Nameless Cowards o...":
Going back over the letters and emails that were posted, I must believe that Quiet WELSian (may not be real name) had to have been reading the wrong letters. I see a lay member asking questions, wanting clarifications in an effort to learn and grow in faith. Isn't that a part of making disciples? I see too much emphasis on just spreading the Word, but not enough emphasis on teaching the Word, explaining it, examining it. I see a church refusing to go over major doctrinal areas with a member. And this was just the beginning of the snowball going down the mountain.
I don't care if you are a pastor, a district president, a synod president, if a member has a question regarding essential Christian foundations, you take the time to answer them. The responses from Joe betray that he is a student of Lutheran doctrine, his quotes alone are evidence of that. The responses from the church consist of saying there will be no discussion, repent and shut up or else, with not even token Scripture passages included.
On a separate note regarding something I saw in the FIC for the WELS 2011 Worship Conference. Over 850 attendees. WOW! And 150 students in the youth choirs! YOWZA! I can now see that the new MLC chapel could never have held that many people. Of course, if you go to the MLC website it states:
"What are the general requirements for this chapel?
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Seating capacity: 1000 for worshipers, an additional 100 for choir, and overflow seating for 200; flexible seating preferred"
Hmmm...so that chapel can fit 1200 derrieres and over 850 showed up. Gosh that's quite the discrepancy and apparently no one read the PR on the website. Then again I can remember that math was not emphasized when I went to MLC, so why should that change anytime soon?
On a related note, they must have sent out a pamphlet explaining all the various reasons why they had to use an ELCA chapel after reading Ichabod. I overheard a pastor that was headed to the conference reciting almost point for point as to why MLC wasn't suitable: no A/C, not big enough, cafeteria issues, yadda yadda, blah blah, etc. Almost verbatim from what was brought up on Ichabod.
Boy the party line comes out in full force. Sad. Of course now it is quite a bit after the fact so who would really care, right?
http://www.wels.net/worship/about-national-worship-conference
http://www.mlc-wels.edu/home/administration/board/chapelfaq/?searchterm=chapel seating
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GJ - Joe can answer this better than I can, but I saw Joe asking questions and being immediately kicked out and trashed, with his wife Lisa. They would not meet with them except to tell off Joe and Lisa while they listened in silence. Ex-SP Gurgle would not even answer an email question.
My experience was this - the WELS pastors could do the repeat-after-me stuff, but they went into panic when I asked probing questions. In fact, I was told that I unraveled people by going to them directly, knocking them off their memorized answers. In spite of what they urge, the leaders do NOT want anyone to go to them and ask questions.
The issue in the Big Four is total control, not doctrinal fidelity. That is why God is letting them crash and burn, poisoning themselves with their own false doctrine.
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LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Ben Wink - On Joe Krohn and Martin Luther College":
Actually it was DP Glaeske that would not answer an email question.
Pr. Gurgel did meet with us graciously on two occasions in our home. Although we could not come to a consensus on terminology, he did not believe our confession was anything damning to our faith and left us feeling (his feeling) that we were probably saying the same things. I believe I did knock him off his memorized answers a couple of times.
Ben Wink is correct in his objective observations.
I asked on more than one occasion to meet with the elders to discuss justification. If anything, they begged us to meet re: fellowship. Why I do not know since we were already excommunicated. We did know what that meant already. But then they turned around and told the voting assembly that they extended invitations to meet about doctrine and that we refused. That led the voters to believe it was about justification when it wasn't.
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GJ - For precise details, check with Joe Krohn's blog. WELS does not rise above repeating the same old talking points, which contradict each other. The leaders are deathly afraid that the laity will study the Book of Concord, read the KJV, and take appropriate action. They would rather have people pay, pray, and obey. That is why WLC felt comfortable inviting featuring a Roman Catholic archbishop as a speaker (not to mention a few of his priests). They have the same attitude toward infallible leaders and an indefectible church body. Not only that - WELS and the Church of Rome are identical in starting worship conferences with a cash bar for their alcoholics. "Bottoms up!" - as they say without blushing.
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1580 has left a new comment on your post "Ben Wink - On Joe Krohn and Martin Luther College":
"I don't care if you are a pastor, a district president, a synod president, if a member has a question regarding essential Christian foundations, you take the time to answer them."
I completely agree with you. When I was in high school I sent an e-mail to the Dean of Students at Luther Prep, asking him about UOJ. Knowing this guy, he checks his e-mail constantly -- but failed to ever respond to my e-mail. Sad.
About the MLC Chapel: Sure enough when WELS has one good thing, a solid reverent chapel, they screw it up and put a $40,000 dollar projector in there. During the sermonette the other night it was used to give visuals like we were 5 years old. It was distracting to say the least. On top of that, during the rest of the service it read "Give me an undivided heart." It's ironic that it said that but the reality of the situation was that it gave me a divided heart because I kept looking at the screen instead of the massive cross hanging from the ceiling. I find the screen a stumbling block to my faith and concentration on the Word.
P.S. I hear they're waiting on another "gift" to put in another screen.
