ELCA Questions Answered

Founded Upon the Rock, the Word of God,
by Norma Boeckler
From an ELCA pastor, who sent a very polite email, signed it, and gave the name of his congregation:

Also you are clear about who are the past greats in Lutheran theology. What I would like to know is this: Are there any living published Lutheran theologians whom you would endorse as completely orthodox in their teaching and consistent in their practice of fellowship? Similarly, what would you suggest a young man who has graduated from college and wished to study for the Lutheran ministry in the USA do? Is there any seminary that is safe to go to and if not does that mean it is impossible to study theology under the instruction of others and one must do it completely on one's own?

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GJ - My view of theological writers is summed up in a few words - the deader, the better. I am sure there are some, but I pay no attention to current writers. I agree with Walther - Not many but much. I would rather read Luther and Chemnitz over again than pick up a new book. Here is another good saying - The closer to Luther, the better the theologian. I find it interesting that there is so much blather about everyone except Luther and Chemnitz. Gerhard is a fine theologian, but he does not compare to those two major contributors to the Book of Concord.

Which seminary? They are all over-priced. I wonder where the clergy have been while the tuition was jacked up everywhere. Debt-ridden graduates cannot afford to buck the system. They have an expensive degree which is useless in the business world.

I used to like the two Concordias, but their product has gone Fuller/Roman/Eastern Orthodox. The so-called Confessional Lutherans from those seminaries are really Recessional Lutherans, leading their members to Pasadena, Rome, or Constantinople.

Bethany and the Sausage Factory teach Universalism via UOJ. Their graduates seldom, if ever, think about issues. The Bethany graduates who think are expelled from the Little Sect on the Prairie.

No, I would not waste a fortune on the Lutheran seminaries. The alternative to a formal education at a synodical school would be one of university divinity schools, like Yale, Harvard, Princeton, Duke. Sometimes a good deal on tuition is available. The faculty is going to be apostate for the most part. All my professors at Yale were conservative: Dahl, Malherbe, Wilson, Holmer. They were much more conservative than my LCA seminary and college professors, and they were also known as conservative at Yale. The dean vowed never to hire another Lutheran. Now those professors are retired or dead. Two Yale professors began each class with prayer, something that never happened in the LCA.

Self-study or study with an expert is possible. In colonial days a young man lived at a parsonage and studied with the minister. They called these arrangements the School of the Prophets. Often the young man spirited away the parson's daughter in the bargain. I am sure the parson and his wife wept and winked at the same time.

Perhaps the entire synodical enterprise must come unglued for it to be reborn. I know ELCA has spawned more break away congregations in population than the entire Little Sect on the Prairie.

Some say the mini-micros are a good argument against leaving: LCR, CLCs, ELDONA. I believe there is no excuse for financial or personal support for wrongful activities. No more giving to synodical slush funds is a good start. Better would be non-attendance at events. Imagine a gathering where only half showed up. The pall over the meeting would be, well, appalling.

Baby Steps - Or Alien Doctrine?

Ripley Concluded Something Was Wrong When She Felt Footprints

L P Cruz has left a new comment on your post "Chameleon Lutherans":

Dr. Greg,

I am just curious as to what you think of Society of Saint Paul? Is this baby steps to the Tiber do you think?

LPC

Oops I meant Society of Saint Polycarp I think by LCMS pastors here is the link

Society of Saint Polycarp

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GJ - Baby steps? This website is a perfect example of the Missouri Synod underground in favor of Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy. I will quote some of most febrile passages below in italics.

The Rule of the Society of St. Polycarp

Pastor Larry Beane-Dean For questions or comments: Contact Pastor Bean.

7. As the Lutheran Symbols confess the Blessed Virgin Mary to be "the pure, holy, and ever-virgin Mother of God" (Theotokos, Gottes Mutter), as well as "that the blessed Mary prays for the Church" (Ap. XXI, 27; SA I, IV, Latin; FC SD VIII, 24), it is altogether fitting, proper, and consistent with the Faith of the Church Catholic to honor the Blessed Virgin in liturgical celebration. Members of the Society will seek to restore the traditional Marian feasts of the Church of the Augsburg Confession (i.e., the Feasts of the Purification, Annunciation, and Visitation) as a testimony of the grace of God through her, that we might imitate the Blessed Virgin in word and example, and in thanksgiving for the Incarnation of the Son of God through her humble submission to the will of God. Members of the Society will also promote the observance and celebration of saints' days and commemorations. This is wholly in keeping with the evangelical and catholic tradition of the Church of the Augsburg Confession, whose Symbolical Books acknowledge the saints as fitting exemplars of the catholic Faith worthy of imitation, as well as our heavenly intercessors (AC XXI, 1; Ap. XXI, 4-9).

8. As the Church of the Augsburg Confession understands herself as a part of the One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, particularly as she exists in the West, members of the Society will take seriously the commitment to the proper ecumenicity this demands. Members will pursue dialogue with:

- Fellow Lutheran Christians to foster and promote Lutheran unity.

- Our separated brethren in the Roman Church, with which the Lutherans at the Diet of the Augsburg in 1530 clearly sought reconciliation.

- The Eastern Orthodox Church, following the example of the exchange between the Lutheran theologians of the University of Tübingen and Ecumenical Patriarch Jeremiah II of Constantinople (1573-1581).

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GJ - In spite of the obligatory Lutheran orthodox sounding words not quoted, this page is far more than baby steps toward Rome and Constantinople. More like a double back-flip with a half gainer.

The Mariolatry cited above gives the scheme away. As Schmauck said, the more people veer away from the Confessions, the more they insist they are the true Lutherans. Chemnitz, the primary editor of the Book of Concord, said we should not give Mary more titles than the Scriptures reveal. This group would have Mary replace Jesus as the object of worship, which is the fetish of Rome and Eastern Orthodoxy.

Here's more:

On Theosis and the Mystical Union

Pastor William Weedon

I have made no bones about the fact that I think there is enormous congruity between what the East calls theosis and what the Lutherans of the 16th and 17th centuries termed mystical union. The loss of that whole mystical union way of thinking has been a sad loss, in my estimation, for the Lutheran Church, and it has disfigured us. The exclusive description of justification in forensic terms has been reduced to the imparting of information: God declares you righteous for Christ's sake. That's indeed the truth, but it is not all of the truth.

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GJ - Where did we hear about theosis before? Oh yes, the ELDONA/Augustana (sic) conference. And the term Church Catholic? That was a favorite of Richard J. Neuhaus before he poped.

Pastor William Weedon is quite active, but not alone. Rev. Fenton (who repudiated Lutheran doctrine and joined the EO) posts on Weedon's blog.

Here are team members of Weedon's blog on the Lutheran Confessions. Thanks to some HTML skills, I was able to copy their links so Ichabodians can see what floats their boats or lights their incense:

Blog Authors

• Rev. Paul Gregory Alms



• Rev. Dr. Albert Collver



• Rev. William M. Cwirla



• Rev. Ryan Fouts



• Rev. Paul T. McCain



• Rev. David Petersen



• Rev. Dr. Lawrence Rast



• Rev. Dr. Holger Sonntag



• Dr. Gene Edward Veith



• Rev. David Jay Webber



• Rev. William Weedon

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GJ - Few things shock me about Lutheran apostasy these days, but I was astounded that
McCain (LCMS) and Webber (ELS) would associate with a Romanist like Weedon on a site supposedly dedicated to the Lutheran Confessions.

These Recessional Lutherans have given me an idea. I will start Roman Catholic blogs with names that will draw people in from their Google searches: Scapular Devotions, Holy Mother Church, Quenching the Purgatory Fires, Boys Town, and Luther's Errors. The blogs will make people believe I am a Ultramontane Roman Catholic, but I will spice them up with material that will turn them into Lutherans. That is better by far than pretending to be a Lutheran while turning people into papists.

Anonymous asked: How are you determining that these men are "team members"? There is no reference along these lines on either of the sites you link from the post. Also, are each of these individuals writing for Weedon's blog, or merely linked by him? Since no one can control who links to their blog, it would be unfair to criticize the men on your list merely for being a link from Weedon's blog. Please be more precise.

I just make this stuff up! Here is the verbatim information about the blog:

Blog Name Team Members
Concordia | The Lutheran Confessions orthodoxy hunter; Paul T. McCain; David Jay Webber; Paul Gregory Alms; ABC3+; Rev. Ryan Fouts; Petersen; Holger Sonntag; wm cwirla; GEVeith

Orthodoxy Hunter is not linked on the main page or listed, but McCain says she is a new friend who designed his new Google blog.

Dixie Byzantine Edits Ichabod Caption

Dixie's Caption - "Lutherans - Mother Beckons"


A Lutheran becoming Orthodox is like…

…a Lutheran going to Fuller Seminary or Willow Creek? I don’t quite understand the simile Lutheran pastor and blogger, Dr. Gregory Jackson, attempts to form, short of, perhaps, the act of not being Lutheran?

Anyway…I thought his caption under the picture of the Hagia Sophia was funny. If we drop a few letters though…

Seriously, I get around. I know there are Lutheran pastors/congregations that attempt the Willow Creek worshiptainment strategy. And some try to meld into the American Evangelical landscape without a Lutheran distinction. And some even embrace various things normally associated with Eastern Orthodoxy (icons, Orthodox prayers, etc.). What passes for Lutheranism in America these days is a mixed bag. But a wise Lutheran once told me: ‘One doesn’t become Orthodox because of dissatisfaction with the former church. One becomes Orthodox when one sees Orthodoxy as the True Church.’

No one goes down the Willow Creek path because they see that as the “True Church”. Similarly, no one travels the Fuller Seminary path for the same reason. But when one travels East…the stakes are decidedly higher and the prize decidedly different.

***

GJ - My caption, as you may recall, was - Lutherans, The Mother Ship Beckons.

My point has always been - Have an honest confession of faith. I find the Recessional Lutherans, who are dishonestly leading people away from the Lutheran Confessions, the worst kind of cowards.

I am not surprised that people do not find any satisfaction in the Lutheran Church of today. In general, the clergy have either sold out to Fuller/Willow Creek (the vast majority) or to Rome/Constantinople. If these ministers no longer favor the Book of Concord, they should say so and quit annoying the minority who see the work of Luther, Melanchthon, and Chemnitz as the high-point of Christian theology. There were other great theologians afterwards, but none reached the supremacy of those three gifted and brilliant teachers of the Gospel.

Lest the Theme of This Blog Be Lost

"Hi there, folks. I am Pastor Bob. I will be your inspirational leader today. We have an exciting 50 minutes for you again. Cousin Brunhilda will sing You Light Up My Life. I promise the back-up tapes will work better this time, Hilda. My Life Partner, Pastor Pat, will give a dialogue talk with me: Success Through Goal Setting Dreams. Pastor Pat has learned a lot through those Twelve Step Programs. Later, our Liturgical Dancers will amaze you with their movements. So put your hands together and welcome Cousin Brunhilda now."

And she named the child Ichabod, saying, The glory is departed from Israel. 1 Samuel 4:21 (KJV)

"The doctrine of the means of grace is a peculiar glory of Lutheran theology. To this central teaching it owes its sanity and strong appeal, its freedom from sectarian tendencies and morbid fanaticism, its coherence and practicalness, and its adaptation to men of every race and every degree of culture. The Lutheran Confessions bring out with great clearness the thought of the Reformers upon this subject." "Grace, Means of," The Concordia Cyclopedia, L. Fuerbringer, Th. Engelder, P. E. Kretzmann, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1927, p. 299.

"Must Lutheranism be shorn of its glory to adapt it to our times or our land? No!"
Charles P. Krauth, The Conservative Reformation and Its Theology, Philadelphia: The United Lutheran Publication House, 1871, p. 208.

The Ark of the Covenant was captured in this famous passage from 1 Samuel, so the following selection of essays about Lutheran doctrine will be called Ichabod. The glory has departed from the Lutheran Church. In fact, the Lutheran Church no longer exists in America in any institutional form. The enemy has not stolen the Ark of the Covenant - the Means of Grace. Instead the apostate Lutheran leaders have thrown a tarp over their Ark in order to glory in their Fuller Seminary and Willow Creek classes, their Purpose-Driven (TM) mission visions, their contemporary Pentecostal music, their pit bands, and their self-glorifying pep talks disguised as sermons.

Recessional Lutherans

Recessional Lutherans, like Father Neuhaus,
lead them out, reverently.

I remember when Rev. Richard J. Neuhaus used to call himself and his friends Confessional Lutherans. Clearly he was preparing for some years to become a Roman Catholic priest. His friend Robert Wilken (head of graduate studies, theology, when I was at Notre Dame) also joined the Church of Rome.

Now we have those Synodical Conference leaders who want to moonwalk toward Pasadena or Constantinople, while posturing about their Confessional Lutheran standards. They are like the choir and pastor leaving the church first, during the recessional. They cannot be Confessional Lutherans, so they must be Recessional Lutherans.

I began writing against the Church Growth Movement about 20 years ago. My first little article stirred up more letters than I ever received on a single topic. Many laity were suspicious of Church Growth. They were glad I identified some of the obnoxious odors coming from Satan's Lair, aka Fuller Theological Seminary.

Recently someone I know quite well told me about WELS Campus Ministry in Madison, Wisconsin. The pastor took his staff down to Willow Creek for training. Now they are spending millions on the building, starting cell groups, and bragging about their results. Willow Creek recently confessed that all their methods were wrong. I was not alone in suspecting that WC wanted to open up a new round of training for all the clergy they mistrained before. This time around they will apologize abjectly while fleecing the wolves again, many of them using denominational funds, or Trivent dividends.

Going Under
The tabloids use a term: going under. It means that circulation will increase if they go under the standards of the other papers. More salacious gossip. More skin showing. Congregations do the same thing. The whole WC/CGM approach is to go under the standards of all other denominations. Make the music slicker. Turn the Sunday worship service into a recruiting seminar. Spike the sermon and make it a pep talk.

ALC and LCA congregations used to go under the standards of LCMS and WELS by setting up shop nearby. They would promote open communion and lax standards all around. Who can complain about that? Sometimes a Missouri congregation strict on the lodge would find itself emptied by a new ALC congregation apparently conservative on every issue except that one.

The Recessional Lutherans are going under the standards of the Book of Concord with both gambits, whether they are slouching toward Pasadena or Constantinople. Fuller is low-church whoopie Enthusiasm; Eastern Orthodoxy is very high church, smells and bells Enthusiasm. The Book of Concord defines Enthusiasm as separating the work of the Holy Spirit from the Word.

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Comments posted earlier:


Wreck said...
As a confessional Lutheran, I am disturbed at the trends of ELS and WELS.

I'm LCMS, but very confessional. I've been giving moving over to the WELS quite a bit of thought lately. It has to be better than the LCMS. OUr own congregation has embraced PLI, CGM, worship folder, etc. I cannot remember the last time my congregation used hymnals

I'm tired of the fighting. Some say it's a losing battle. Someone HAS to stay confessional. They have to.

I fear female ordination and female elders are not far away in the LCMS. ELCA is gone. They are Lutheran in name only. They might as well be United Church of Christ or Episcopalian.

November 30, 2007 1:42 PM
Anonymous said...
"As I suspected, Lutherans do not become Eastern Orthodoxy without some prompting. Some of the prompting comes from the outside or from the inner turmoil a Lutheran feels in a non-Lutheran Lutheran synod. Professors are encouraging the move to Eastern Orthodoxy as well."

Bingo.

When I visited a relatives WELS church with the whole Seeker Senseless model, I told him that if it were between that kind of worship and going to a Catholic church, I would pick the Catholic church. He rebuked me saying something like "I would definitely tell you that you would be making a big mistake knowing what the Catholic church teaches."

He was right to rebuke me, but such desperate times call for desperate cries. (and conversations) Why would I, a Cofessional Lutheran, want to do something so senseless? Keep pushing us and you'll push us all right out the door!

I wonder if the WC folks teach the buisness principal of "LEAD, FOLLOW OR GET OUT OF THE WAY."
It may be working.

Rarrr.

November 30, 2007 3:02 PM