Wednesday, May 21, 2008

How Would I Change Seminary Training?



Home of the Wow-Wow-Tosa Doctrinal Inventions


Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Martin Luther College, WELS, Adds $7.5 Million Cha...":

Okay, imagine you're in charge of the seminary. How would you prepare pastors differently? What would you change?

***

GJ - I am straining to imagine it. Getting rid of the Wauwautosa delusions would be essential. The worst thing about the Wisconsin sect and the Little Sect on the Prairie is this - Synod Worship. If one must always bow to the synod's Talmudic glosses on everything, what is the point of studying the Scriptures and using the Book of Concord as a rabbit's foot?

If a senile professor invents something even more preposterous than the previous incarnation of UOJ, the synod must be follow lest the old geezer be found wrong.

As District Pope Nitz wrote in one of his threatening letters to me, "You are taking on the whole seminary faculty!"

I think the system has to unravel before something new replaces it.

If a pastor can be known as adulterous and get promoted for it, the synod has not changed. A lot of pastors need to resign, retire, or go to prison before substantial changes take place.

Someone with a Real Name Sent This



Baptists on Church Growth say, "Ew-w-w-w-w."

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Bailing Water Comments":

I didn't submit the first article but have read this one and seems to fit.

http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor152.htm

SOUTHERN BAPTISTS NOW IN DECLINE

By Paul Proctor

April 29, 2008

NewsWithViews.com

In a story from the Christian Post, Lillian Kwon reports that Southern Baptists are now a declining denomination, meaning they are no longer getting the Results and Relationships they covet.

The troubling article begins this way:

For the first time, Southern Baptists can say membership has reached a tipping point and the nation's largest Protestant denomination is now declining, says one long-time Southern Baptist.

"The decline that many of us have already believed is there is now becoming real," said Ed Stetzer, director for LifeWay Research, in an interview featured on MondayMorningInsight.com, a Web site for pastors and church leaders.

Baptisms in the Southern Baptist Convention fell for the third straight year in 2007 to the denomination's lowest level since 1987, dropping nearly 5.5 percent to 345,941, according to LifeWay Christian Resources' Annual Church Profile (ACP), which was released this week.

Total membership also declined by 0.24 percent to 16,266,920.

Later in the article, Kwon offered a quote from the head of LifeWay Christian Resources, the publishing arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, in response to the findings:

"This report is truly disheartening," said LifeWay president Thom S. Rainer, according to Baptist Press. "Total membership showed a slight decline. Baptisms have now declined for three consecutive years and for seven of the last eight years, and are at their lowest level since 1987. Indeed, the total baptisms are among the lowest reported since 1970. We are a denomination that, for the most part, has lost its evangelistic passion."
Well, Mr. Rainer, that’s not all we’ve lost.

A quick stroll through the trinkets, toys and knickknacks for sale at LifeWay Christian Stores, formerly the Baptist Book Store, speaks volumes about our passion, doesn’t it?

Besides being president and CEO of LifeWay Christian Resources, Thom Rainer is also the author of many books – one of which encourages churches to simplify and “unclutter their ministry” in order to “become more effective for the glory of God” – emphasizing “the importance of eliminating nonessential programs” to “focus on those ministries that really matter” – which is curious considering all the clutter and nonessentials being retailed by LifeWay.

Does he honestly think the Lord Jesus wouldn’t pull out a whip and start turning over tables if He walked into one of LifeWay’s ecclesiastical emporiums today? No, they’re not temples or houses of worship – but trivializing God’s Word by putting it on novelties, notions and assorted household items just so you can sell them to churchgoers is tacky. And does LifeWay really think there’s nothing wrong with using the Lord’s name in vain on their products and play pretties as long as it’s not in a curse word?

Is there nothing sacred anymore?

Where’s the awe, reverence, fear and trembling of our faith for the King of Kings and Lord of Lords – in the bottom of a LifeWay bag with a receipt?

How can we expect the unredeemed to take Jesus seriously, if we don’t?

Ronaldo Shoots the Moon


RonaldoMoon has left a new comment on your post "Liberals Are Jumping on Mark Jeske":

I find it to be absolutely hilarious that you think I'm a liberal.

What makes you think I'm a liberal?
Is it my anti-U.N./world government stance? Is that liberal? Is it the fact that I am against amnesty for illegals and against the North American Union? Is that liberal, as well? It must be my desire to make our government stick to the constitution and abolish all of the unconstitutional laws passed by both "liberal" and "conservative"
lawmakers and Presidents. We must have our civil liberties. These used to be the conservative positions until recent years. Now we have turned from liberal/conservative to socialist/fascist. It doesn't matter which group is in control, though. They all serve the same masters, the international financiers who are building a one world government. If you are truly a Christian, you would know that this world government would be the government of the anti-christ. Now, I don't really go that far with it, but the thought crosses my mind occasionally.

Well, anyhow, it seems to me that if you want to do the work of God you need to be fighting the anti-christ's world government, right?

But when you judge me so quickly, it makes me wonder - do you think you are God? Or, perhaps you know well what you are doing...

More wisdom from the Moon:

If you are a Christian, this should disturb you. I’m not a Christian, and it sure does disturb me.

This is why I don’t like organized religion. Just read the Bible yourself. Don’t listen to idiots like this.


***

GJ - I just thought it was interesting that Jeske is annoying everyone but the money men.

Bailing Water Comments




Bailing Water

Anonymous said...
Wow, even WELS is wandering to Rick Warren (and his ilk...ever notice, ilk is never a good thing)

So how does WELS measure success?
Nickels and Noses or faithful preaching of the Gospel and administering the Sacrements? Since numbers aren't going up, do you leave the Gospel for a marketing plan??
Just askin'

May 21, 2008 7:37 AM


rlschultz said...
"Who promised that your congregations would grow?"

Very good question which needs to be asked in a situation like this or any other which relies upon "M&M's" - marketing and methods. Furthermore, where is numerical growth even made a requirement of the so-called Great Commission? So much of this type of approach demonstrates a lack of discernment.

The final, default argument for all of this nonsense is that they are just trying to save souls.

***

GJ - Somewhere on the Internet, a Baptist has said that the Church Growth ninnies are destroying the Baptist Church. True, I posted some remarks from one article. The one I wanted to find told about the decline in baptisms, the weakness in theology, the cheap marketing tactics.

If someone knows which article I mean, which may have been linked to me recently, I will post it.

It's Over Man!
Baptists Turn on Church Growth



C. Peter Wagner, Pentecostal Baptist, endorsed by conservative Lutheran leaders.


Dangers of the Church Growth Movement, by Ralph H. Elliott. Dr. Elliott is senior pastor of the North Shore Baptist Church in Chicago.

Pseudo-gospel

The dangers inherent in the church growth movement are many, and the crucial issue in assessing those dangers is whether we are talking about becoming Christians or about building institutional membership. The greatest danger in the movement may be that it obviously succeeds. If one tailors the church to identify with its culture and engages in the pseudo-gospel of "possibility thinking," promising to assuage guilt with the minimum of pain and connecting that promise with marketing techniques, there will be success. The question is whether the result will bear any similarity to the church.

A second danger is that the movement encourages sinful prejudices. A third is that it misses the major gospel note of reconciliation, forgetting that the key theme of the Christian gospel is the breaking down of the walls of partition between male and female, Jew and Greek and so on. The body of Christ should not be merely a reflection of the divisions that exist on earth predetermined by the exterior similarity of social class and cultural background.

The church growth theology is also dangerous in dooming the city to hopelessness. The strong emphasis on choosing target populations according to the criterion of success leads the church growth people to neglect the city with its economic mobility, its changing neighborhoods and racial mixture. The preference is for the suburbs and for each succeeding suburban ring which mobility and economics establish. One suburb gets old, so emphasis shifts to the next one because that’s where the best possibilities are. The biblical concern for the powerless is totally overlooked. The movement also sanctifies the unholy status quo. In regarding the church as "our kind," church growth sees no problem, for example, with apartheid churches in South Africa, regarding them as routine.

In warning against any ecumenical concerns, the movement also violates the unity of the church. Followers suggest that ecumenical concerns drain away energies and smooth the sharp edge of competitiveness that beats out the other person and leads to success.

In truth, the movement prostitutes the church. Wagner calls on Dean Kelley’s book Why Conservative Churches are Growing for theological support, yet the church growth thesis and Kelley’s are opposites. Kelley portrays the successful church as being against culture, whereas Wagner wants the church to identify the given culture as "my culture." This is surely a sell-out for the gospel which often calls us to leave father and mother and brother and sister.

Finally, church growth theories neglect the biblical dimensions of truly meaningful growth, such as those discussed by Jitsuo Morikawa in his little book of sermons, Biblical Dimensions of Church Growth. In it the author examines the call to grow as individuals and as a faith community -- adhering to qualitative, not merely quantitative, standards.

Martin Luther College, WELS,
Adds $7.5 Million Chapel
To Its Shrinking Campus




Ex Cathedra
Saturday morning, 137 graduates, including two master's graduates and thirty-seven graduates headed to Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary in Mequon, received their hard-earned diplomas.

The language is ambiguous, but it seems that 37 or even 39 graduates are headed to the Sausage Factory for GA, the secret hazing ritual known only to the Wisconsin sect. Yes, innocent ones, GA still goes on. The lies about GA being abandoned or sanitized are part of the Wisconsin ministerial mindset. Tiefel loves GA. "GA, ergo sum."

Let us round off the numbers to 40 for the incoming class, assuming no legs are broken, no teeth knocked out during GA. An incoming class of 40 can yield as few as 20 graduating seniors. Even if no one is arrested during the vicarage year, no one has a military wedding, only 30 are going to graduate.

The Little Nashotah House on the Prairie is only graduating four (4) seniors per year - average for the last five years. Even when supplemented by an expelled grad from Concordia Ft. Wayne, the yield is small.

The Little Sect on the Prairie and its Big Brother WELS have embraced apostasy together, driven out Lutheran pastors, and tip-toed toward school bankruptcy. The Episcoal Church in the US is an example for those who want to follow the latest trends.

MLC had shared its worship area with the auditorium. For some reason, Concordia in St. Louis and MLC were both able to have worship services for many decades before someone noticed the chapel-deficit issue. "We have a chapel-defict!" The "Oh Noes!" and "OMGs!" rose to a crescendo until foundation grants eased their pain.

Martin Luther -- remember him from last week's lesson? -- said in the Middle Ages that they did not need another church building, that people should help the poor instead. I am thinking that the church leaders should ease the pain of confiscatory tuition bills before they build another monument to their egos.

"But we can't!" they claim. "That money is Corban. Mark 7:11. We must use it only for a chapel." That never bothered WELS before when dipping into all their designated funds.

Episcopalians Lead the Way
In Closing Schools



Feminist PB and Bishop Gather Triumphant Feminist Priests


Bankruptcy of Liberalism as Episcopal Seminaries Face Closure

News Analysis

By David W. Virtue
www.virtueonline.org
5/20/2008

Three Episcopal Seminaries, bastions of liberalism, face closure with struggling costs, second career middle-aged priests on fixed incomes, bad theology and programs that reflect the current spiritual zeitgeist of The Episcopal Church.

The first seminary to nose dive was Bexley Hall Seminary in Columbus, Ohio, which announced they would close their satellite campus in Rochester, N.Y., because of declining enrollment and accreditation concerns.

The seminary describes itself as "a seminary in the liberal Anglo-Catholic tradition of Anglicanism." That, in itself, should tell you why it failed. There is no future for that brand of Anglicanism. The Episcopal Church is almost uniformly liberal and revisionist with a small handful of legitimate Anglo-Catholics and Evangelicals, but almost nothing is left of liberal Anglo-Catholicism or, as it is now known, Affirming Catholicism held up by former Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold and Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury.

More recently, officials at Seabury-Western Theological Seminary in Evanston, Ill., announced plans to eliminate the residential Master of Divinity program and to discontinue faculty contracts in 2009. Their mission statement "to develop empowered and empowering leaders for Christ's Church and God's mission in the world with a particular focus on congregational vitality" has clearly failed to make an impact. The Trustees of Seabury-Western Theological Seminary declared that the Episcopal Seminary "is in (a state of) financial crisis that threatens survival of the institution" and gave notice to all faculty members that their employment would end June 30, 2009.

[GJ: Seabury-Western is located on the beautiful campus of Northwestern University, one of the elite schools in the Midwest. The seminary tution page says: "Admissions & Financial Aid Important Notice: As of February 20, 2008, the Board of Trustees has suspended recruitment for all programs for the coming academic year, 2008-2009. Courses of study are continuing for current students in Spring 2008. Summer 2008 Doctor of Ministry residencies will take place as scheduled."]

The school has also eliminated nine staff positions. The final date of employment for most of these positions was this week - a week after graduation and the school's 150th anniversary celebrations. Money, or the lack of it, was blamed, but if you have no ringing endorsement of what it is that "empowers leaders" in proclaiming the Good News, then failure is inevitable. Ironically, not more than 15 miles up the road at Deerfield IL, is Trinity Evangelical Divinity School for Ministry, a thriving interdenominational Evangelical seminary. 40 miles west is Wheaton College, a leading Evangelical Liberal Arts College where 50% of its student body claim Anglicanism as their churchmanship!

In April, the Episcopal Divinity School (EDS) in Cambridge, Mass, said it was selling seven buildings to nearby Lesley University for $33.5 million as a part of a partnership agreement to stabilize the seminary's finances.

EDS President and Dean, Steven Charleston told Episcopal News Service that it would help to anchor EDS into a foundation that will secure the financial future of the school as well as opening EDS up to continue its innovative work in theological education for the church.

[GJ - EDS is located near the Harvard University campus, allowing it to share programs and professors with Harvard, ideal for students or professors who covet Harvard but cannot get in the front door. "Central to EDS's educational programs and community life is our emphasis on antiracist and multicultural learning. The curriculum also values adult learners and acknowledges the variety in students' ages, races, cultures, life experiences, motivations, preparation, and possibilities for ministry." One major area of study is "Feminist Liberation Theologies (FLT) furnishes students with critical tools to examine and confront interlocking forms of oppression, such as sexism, racism, classism, and heterosexism, in today's world. FLT begins its theological endeavors with the experiences of marginalized peoples and their struggles for liberation, especially women and their communities. In every aspect of the students' educational and ministerial formation, FLT invites them to reflect theologically on these struggles, analyze the systemic and cultural sources of conflict that give rise to them, and create new opportunities for social transformation and change. FLT integrates rigorous academic work, praxis, thoughtful reflection, and collaboration between students and faculty to provide students with the leadership necessary to pursue their work in today?s society and church."]

It is those two words "innovative work" that marks it out for death. The seminary was once described by Methodist theologian Thomas Oden, in his book "Requiem" (1995), "as an institution that has now become self-designated as an openly homosexual-welcoming seminary. It will not evoke the response of the laity and they will be repulsed by moral and spiritual consequences of that seminary. Even with McGovernized representation, the old line church constituency is smarter than to allow its institutions to be permanently commandeered by an orientation and ideology so alien as proto-Marxian lesbianism and all-orifice any-gender promiscuity."

Charleston himself once opined that Jesus' command to "go therefore and make disciples of all nations" does not give Christians the authority to tell other people how to believe and how to pray, how to dress and how to speak, how to act and how to think. "That is authority Jesus never gave to us, because he knew that we could not handle it," he says. With theology like that, it is no wonder there is no Great Commission proclaimed and the seminary is dying. It should come as no surprise that overall enrollment is down by 25%! Charleston says he has no job after June 1.

The question is how long will it be before six of the remaining eight liberal Episcopal seminaries will announce cut backs and closures?

Two Episcopal seminaries, both orthodox in faith and morals, are not in decline and are in fact flourishing.

Nashotah House in Wisconsin, is thriving, so is Trinity School for Ministry based in Ambridge, PA.

Nashotah House is Anglo-Catholic in orientation and has doubled its enrollment to 108. It also has a new Doctor of Ministry program. Durham Bishop N. T. Wright says of the institution, "I have a sense that maybe Nashotah House, like the Irish in the Dark Ages, is called to hang onto certain things which other bits of the tradition have thrown away against the time when the rest of the church realizes it needs them again."

[GJ - Nashotah House is where ELS Seminary President Gaylin Schmeling earned an STM. My conservative Episcopalian friend at Notre Dame, Charlie Caldwell, was called to teach there to help turn around the feminist gay lib school. Apparently that worked.]

Trinity School for Ministry is also on the rise. Although its graduate ordinands are scorned, despised and rejected by liberal Episcopal dioceses, it is training many of the sons of Global South Anglican bishops and archbishops. TESM has seen its residential Master of Divinity program grow by more than 30 percent since the late 1990s, and today has about 40 students per class. It recently received a $1 million donation for students coming from the Global South (Nigeria and the Middle East) who want a thorough Evangelical Anglican education not easily available elsewhere.

Interesting too, is the fact that interdenominational evangelical Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary in South Hamilton, Massachusetts, offers a Master of Divinity degree in Anglican/Episcopal studies with a marked historical and biblical bent that is rapidly growing even as EDS slowly withers and dies. You can read more about their program here: www.gordonconwell.edu:7777/hamilton/registration/pdf/handbook/degrees.pdf - Similar pages

Regent College, Vancouver, on the campus of the University of British Columbia also has an Anglican Studies Center offering a program in world Anglicanism. It partners with Wycliffe Hall, a permanent private hall of Oxford University to offer a unique initiative in theological education. These schools offer programs, which enable prospective ordinands the opportunity to experience Anglicanism in two different cultural contexts: Vancouver and Oxford. It is ironic that this program is being offered in the Anglican heart of darkness that is the revisionist Diocese of New Westminster and its Bishop Michael Ingham.

If anything has been learned from the consecration of openly homoerotic Episcopal Bishop Gene Robinson, it is that liberal seminaries are slowly declining while orthodox seminaries thrive, a fact overlooked by those who preach the loudest for an inclusive and diverse church.

The Episcopal method of training clergy "is a very expensive way to do theological education," said Daniel Aleshire, executive director of the Pittsburgh-based Association of Theological Schools. "There is significant financial stress in the Episcopal seminary system," he told the Religious News Service, but that doesn't explain the loss of interest in the Episcopal Church, its aging congregations and increasingly aging seminarians. Those who leave seminary with debt face average annual student loan payments of more than $12,000 -- with an average starting salary of just $45,500, reports RNS. If vocation, calling and ministry are reduced to money, it is no wonder that these institutions are dying. Jesus sent his disciples out with little more than the clothes on their backs. Retiring Episcopal priests and bishops can expect to receive pensions that rival and exceed most anything the secular world has to offer.

Trinity's dean of students, Tina Lockett told RNS that "But by and large, people are picking their seminary based on the quality of the academics, the theology of the faculty and the theological position of the seminary. They'll work out the money as a secondary issue."

Money or the lack of it doesn't explain it all away. The problem lies in the message, or lack of same, being promulgated in the seminaries. Evangelical seminaries are thriving. TESM is but one example. Centrist and liberal seminaries, with no clearly defined message but pluralism and accommodationist to the culture, are withering and dying. Who wants to hear, absorb and regurgitate the thoughts of EDS feminist-lesbo-womanist "theologian" Carter Heyward? Who honestly thinks it will fill churches. Better to build a columbarium and they will come. "Central to EDS' educational programs and community life is our emphasis on antiracist and multicultural learning," says Heyward.

If that is the case and it is not the proclamation of the Good News, then a local university or college could just as easily provide such learning, and probably much better. Ironically, if racism is a problem in TEC, it has come more from the liberal side of the pews than the orthodox. The attitude and utterances of liberal Episcopal bishops towards African bishops over the years is decidedly racist. One recalls the statement of inhibited Pennsylvania Bishop Charles E. Bennison who likened the growth of the church in Africa to Hitler's Nazi Party!

After all, if a priest can't tell the difference between The Great Commission and Millennium Development Goals, then they shouldn't be leading an Episcopal parish; better to join the UN or the Kiwanis Club or any of the multitudinous agencies that press good works.

As go the seminaries, so go the churches. Aging and withering congregations can no longer support newly minted liberal Via Media type priests. That day is over. The Episcopal Church is losing a thousand or more persons a week. Those numbers will only increase in the coming months. The children of those fleeing Episcopalians will never darken the doors of TEC's liberal seminaries. That day, too, is done.

END

CCM Peacocks in WELS




Inquiring minds said...
Please explain your comment that the COP seems to be on a "confessional witchhunt" lately. It might be helpful to give specific examples. Is this a witchhunt hunting confessional people, or a witchhunt by confessinal people? Your phrase could be understood either way. Again, specific factual examples would seem to be in place.

May 16, 2008 6:01 AM


John said...
Ok..here's the deal. Look at who is the COP representative on this ad-hoc committee. He certainly seems to be a good 'ole boy. In fact, Vi continually scolds his own district pastors that they better not take pots shots from the weeds.

His very own district has several congregations being led by pastors that are glossy eyed over Church growth methods and in fact look more Methodist than Lutheran.
Yet no church discipline is carried out on these pastors. He looks the other way. However, when a confessionally liturgical pastor or pastors stand up and point out the reformed flaws in the synod they are driven down and out.

May 16, 2008 9:16 AM

John said...
Just shout'in,

The most recent WELS contemporary worship service I attended was more like an ole fashion Methodist revival than a confessional Lutheran church service. So that is what I mean by reigning in the liberal Methodist practices happening in the WELS. So I will flesh this out. First of all, this church doesn't have Lutheran in its name. The Sunday service began with a greeting by the robeless and tieless reverend who isn't addressed as pastor at all. Then he asked us to turn and greet our neighbor. Than the praise band leader took over and led the audience in a few pop songs. The first one being "Here I am to worship" and another couple of diddies about our great God (I think the melody was taken from a U2 song). The reverend than lead a Bible study type sermon that lasted about 30 minutes. The offering happened next, followed by some prayers. A contemporary version of Amazing grace was sung next. Then the blessing (hurray). One more pop song and the Methodist revival was done. I kid you not. Oh yea, there of course was a powerpoint with the lyrics and a small little kiddie church going on across the hallway since the kiddos can't read or see the powerpoint cause of the swaying adults (I kid you not). I thought the mrs in front of me was doing the electric slide. The service was held on a Sunday during the lenten season. But this church doesn't hold Wednesday evening lenten services (ie Methodist?).

So I hope that paints a better picture for you.

May 18, 2008 10:38 PM

Let Us Prey



"I will be on that famous Lutherans list. I will be on that famous Lutherans list. I will be on that famous Lutherans list! Stay tuned for the Paul Kelm Synod. Eeeeyah. "



Anonymous said...
A small clip from a WELS church bulletin in an area about 20 miles from St Mark Depere..... Is this the direction WELS wants to go???

"Some people from our church have approached our pastors about starting a daughter congregation in the Appleton area. These WELS people would fund the entire project for a certain number of years. It will not be financed by our congregation. This daughter congregation would have its own pastor and a part-time music director. The main feature of this church would be: 1) contemporary worship only; 2) small group ministry; 3) lay-driven; 4) Appleton area focused; 5) and will reach out to the unchurched. This congregation will be directed by a separate executive committee. It will have a different name than St. Peter and will worship in facilities outside our campus and not at FVL.
We will have two open hearings to discuss the concept of a
daughter congregation between the services on June 8 & 15, 2008, in church.
We will vote on this proposal at our June 23, 2008 voters’ meeting."

May 19, 2008 4:55 PM


Anonymous said...
Thanks for the laugh!

The 40+ WELS congregations in the Appleton area really need help getting the word out????

May 20, 2008 1:22 PM


miket said...
Anonymous (5/19 - 4:55 pm):

Your comment refers to a church growthy outreach proposal and asks whether this is the direction the WELS wants to go. Obviously, it is the direction that at least some in one congregation want to go. I trust that you are not ascribing the thinking of these few to the whole synod. I think most of the people in WELS would have concerns about starting the kind of mission described in that bulletin note.

The history of the WELS is full of cases of liberal pastors leading their congregations in directions not consistent with God's Word. Some of those pastors came to see the error of their ways; most are no longer WELS.

Seeing a bulletin note like this does not alarm me. What would alarm me is false doctrine that goes undisciplined. Do you know of anything along those lines that needs to be addressed?

May 20, 2008 1:35 PM


Anonymous said...
"The main feature of this church would be: 1) contemporary worship only; 2) small group ministry; 3) lay-driven; 4) Appleton area focused; 5) and will reach out to the unchurched."

Am I missing something? What is not consistent with God's Word in those four? The only false doctrine that needs to be addressed in this vain is elevating personal preferences to the level of Scripture and addressing those who are not in agreement with your opinions "false teachers'. That's called legalism and that is a sin -- period. That is also an issue that also needs to be addressed in the WELS.

I live in the Fox Valley, the number of people we are reaching in our 40+ congregations, the number sitting in His house regularly, and the number of adult confirmations are in most cases, not rising. The synod stats, which I have a copy of, indicates a need to at least look at different ways to gain an audience so that God's means can be shared.

Just shout'in

May 20, 2008 7:59 PM

Liberals Are Jumping on Mark Jeske



Son of Jester: His Lopsided Smile


Liberals disown their own liberal preacher, Mark Jeske.

OK, I know I just said “don’t listen to this idiot”, but I meant “don’t believe anything this snake says”. I want you to listen to him, so you can see what’s going on here. Notice that he says that you should be obedient because you don’t want to “make the name of God look bad”. Seriously!?!? Since when is “God” worried about “looking bad” in the eyes of man?

Daily Kos Commentary.

Ichabod agrees with Jeske about one thing: we are both ashamed he is a Lutheran.