Church Growth Super-flop Still in the News - WELS Ate It Up. LCMS Too!

 Fired Mars Hill Church Elder Breaks Silence : MATTHEW PAUL TURNER ✪ Believing.Doubting.Writing.Parenting.Laughing.Thinking.Creating.Hoping.Living.:

Tim Glende told his congregation they were going to a "pastor conference,"
but there was no WELS or ELS conference at the time
the trio went to Seattle and took this photo (minus Mark).

Recent article about Mark Driscoll - 

The star of Church Growth - like many other flops.

FIRED MARS HILL CHURCH ELDER BREAKS SILENCE

Posted by Matthew on Tuesday, January 31, 2012 · 42 Comments 

Bent Meyer was fired by Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church in 2007. He spoke up on Sunday here. Bent’s backstory is offered here.

It’s not a long comment, but what he says is quite eye-opening and telling about the intentional narrow ministry mindedness of Mark.

I hope more people like Bent will speak up. Their stories are priceless to those who are suffering Mark’s consequences now.

I’ve heard from two Seattle journalists over the last couple days. Both said that former Mars Hill members are coming out of the wordwork to share their abuse stories.

It’s sad. And it keeps getting sadder.

I am one of the men fired the day of Mark’s rant about two elders he felt needed broken noses. Someone asked what has happened since that day.
I am happy to say, the next Sunday my wife and I attended another Church with far better expository teaching and a community that authentically and generously helps the marginalized.

I also finished my master program and have a private mental health practice serving the Seattle and Eastside area. This was a very good and satisfying result.

Regarding whether I spoke up or not. I have not been silenced by any direct or implied threats of retaliation. It is clear that the one who possess the air waves controls the content and spin of a story, so there was not much to be done.

I thought a lot about how I would response and just what my motives would be. I chose not to be lured into a public argument through the Seattle Times asking me for a blow by blow description of the events I have documented. I have a tendency to keep material for years and years.

I did prepare my narrative, including supporting documents, for members only to read who came to me for explanation. They had to agree never to disclose any of it to the media. These people have been honorable. As best I know, none have. By doing this I opened up myself to their scrutiny and possible rebuke. I have received nothing but kindness and support.

As to my motives, I want Mark’s best. In my opinion he is a very troubled man. He is caught in his own hell. The consequence, of course, is the influence he has on others, which is mixed.

He, Lief Moi, and Mike Gunn, together the founders of Mars Hill Church, sent out to focus on those that were young, upwardly mobile and future leaders. They wanted to position themselves to influence their faith decisions and their life choices. This is a lesson for many church leaders to learn from and choose for themselves.

The downside is Mark’s pathology shows up in ways that are impulsive, aggressive, irascible, shut off from effective relational influence, and most apparent not respectful and submissive to anyone, though he claims otherwise.

I have hoped and still hope for something short of him destroying himself that would bring about substantial change for this ever increasing population of worshiper. Some have fretted there will be a great loss of Christians with the demise of Mark and/or the Church. I don’t think so. The church that comprises all of us will survive. The chaff will be blown away, but the church will remain.

I would speak a caution to all of us. There is much to be learn for the Mars Hill phenomena. Don’t dismiss the hunger and openness to be influenced represented in those ages 18 through 30. Invent content that is useful and distribute it freely on the web. Always incorporate creatively some explanation of the gospel at the end of every teaching session with an invitation to do business with Jesus.

Even though Mark’s portrayal of masculinity is more like a comic book superhero and women needing to be protected and rescued is his focus, young men coming into manhood is richly important. Absent fathers is epidemic. Think about what it is that has caused them not to attach to their families. Mark comes at it from the standpoint of duty and responsibility, which is mechanical, missing other primary questions. Why do so many men not attach to their families? Why do they abandon family so easily? Mark uses shame and intimidation as the means of gaining compliance, which has the appearance of working, but is not transformational in the long run, or creates other issues of abusive relationships related to power and control. In many men, the tendency is understood in the short saying, “Monkey see monkey do.” Don’t over react, young men need to mature.

I feel like I need to give attention to the needs of women with equal if not more space since women are marginalized and silenced in so many ways. But, I will leave that for another time.

I hope this will satisfy the primary curiosity of those who wonder what has happened to me. I will say, the other elder fired at the same times is a good friend and is doing well.

Thankful that Bent shared.

I found this here.

 ieatschwaemerei (http://ieatschwaemerei.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Investigating Universal Objective Justification":

This article will be interesting to you: http://matthewpaulturner.net/jesus-needs-new-pr/fired-mars-hill-church-elder-breaks-silence/

Let Us Pause To Honor the WELS Framework of Fellowship

WELS pontificates - "They are outside the framework of church fellowship." But of course, WELS ardently worships at the same throne.

I was talking to a member about all the honored greats of Church Growth who imploded, plus a few other scoundrels. WELS and Missouri share them - but the Little Sect on the Prairie is pure (yuk, yuk). Just ask the ELS.

Mark and Avoid Jeske is a regular Robert Schulller, liberal Calvinist, tireless self-promoter, anxious to include every confession of faith, except Justification by Faith.
He has his hands in Thrivent and the Seibert Foundation, The Core, Church and Church (now in stealth mode), and various other entities.

Starting at the top left - Craig Groeschel was being copied verbatim at the Glende-Ski Popcorn Cathedral of Love. The lawyer who proved this and objected to it was excommunicated. The DP supported Glende and Ski.

Top middle - Mark Driscoll - who said bodies would be piled up when he was done. Ski, Glende, and Bishop Katie went to absorb the magic.

Next row down, left - Donald McGavran, Disciples of Christ, founder of Church Growth, promoter of Planned Parenthood in writing.

Aging hippy with the moustache - Leonard Sweet - adored in WELS and the LCMS St. Louis Apostasiorium. Maybe he was really profound, but he sounded like one of those weed addicts who never stop talking.

The cheerful chubby is Ed Stetzer, who is currently very big at Wheaton College and Trinity Divinity in Deerfield. The Deerfield branch of Pietism was used so much by WELS staff that their Love Shack was mentioned twice in one annual report. Trinity Divinity has been disgraced by the behavior of Bill Hybels (below) and Ravi Zacharias. WELS gave pastors money to learn from His Holiness Hybels (but offered me a scholarship there).

The big white-haired portrait is C. Peter Wagner, aka Pete Wagner, also popular in WELS, though his Pentecostal ravings should have frightened most people away. He fell for the creepy guy who was "raising people from the dead" in Florida. He was the hot-shot promoter for McGavran, or as WELS might say, the Larry Olson for the Founder of Church Growth.

At the bottom is Andy Stanley, gay activist Babtist, son of the equally appalling Charles Stanley. Glende, Ski, Bishop Katie (and others) attended at least one Andie Stanley money-maker. Ski blogged about it - lavishing praise on Andy Stanley and worshiping with him. The blog was out in public for a long time. I copied parts of it, because I knew they would destroy the evidence and deny it. 

WELS pastors and staff, plus LCMS dolts of the same persuasion, can always be found with Enthusiasts. They are now so deluded that they continue on the same path, looking for more reasons their faithless Law speeches are driving people away or into their lupine jaws.

Let us not forget Archbishop Weakland, who was invited - with his priests - to offer public lectures at Wisconsin Lutheran College (WELS), a fact later denied by the college and WELS. The lectures were publicized (also denied by WELS). It was not a private luncheon, as WELS declared, which is even more bizarre than lectures. Weakland was also under fire for his relationship with a man and his misuse of church funds, but that was no problem for WELS.

Archbishop Rembert Weakland

One WELS Church Growth expert sold Cho books at a WELS gathering, and Cho was promoted at the Kelm conference I was forced to attend.

I do not remember if Hill's name was mentioned in awe - as so many phonies are in WELS - but he was a major influence for Robert Schuller, who received an award for supporting Hill's dogma. Pete Wagner talked crazy like this too. Luther warned that when the Means of Grace are set aside, many foul errors will rush in. 

 WELS has a special hatred for the Book of Concord. They are Quia Marias, pretending to love a confession they despise and corrupt. The ELS is the same but quieter.

Cross-dressing Andy Mueller, son of Wayne, is a big deal at Church and Change Your Gender, the WELS Church Growth cult that went invisible.

Calvinist Copycats Cleverly Cover Up for Each Other

The Lutheran Librarian sent me a link about Calvinists covering up plagiarism for each other.

https://thouarttheman.org/2019/10/29/plagiarizer-derek-w-h-thomas-offers-opening-prayer-in-u-s-house-of-representatives/

Start of quotation from the article linked above:

Derek W.H. White and Mark Driscoll have proven that plagiarism matters little in the American Evangelical subculture.

Fresh off a slap on the wrist from the Catawba Presbytery for what the nameless group of men classified as “unintentional plagiarism,” The distinguished Dr. Derek W.H. Thomas had the honor of offering the Opening Prayer in the U.S. House of Representatives yesterday.

According to Wikipedia, Dr. Thomas, Senior Pastor at First Presbyterian Church of Columbia, SC and a professor at Reformed Theological Seminary, has yet to make a public statement about his plagiarism. It appears likely he never will, choosing instead to let his good friend, Dr. Ligon Duncan speak for him.

Duncan, Chancellor of Reformed Theological Seminary, appears to be a man of poor discernment, first defending C.J. Mahaney and now Derek W.H. Thomas.

Quoting from Wikepedia: “Reformed Theological Seminary, which he [Thomas] works for as a professor, also cleared his name, saying, “an RTS committee reviewing the Acts incident had cleared Thomas of ‘any knowing and intentional plagiarism.’ He [Ligon Duncan] added that Thomas will continue to teach. ‘From the standpoint of RTS,’ Duncan wrote, ‘the case is now closed.'”

Of course, it is. Who would dare argue with the influential Chancellor?

End of quotation from the article linked above.

***

GJ - I wrote back that there are many cases like that in Lutherdom, especially among those who want the label only when convenient.

CPH editor Paul McCain copy and pasted material from other blogs and copiously copied from The Catholic Encyclopedia, forgetting the quotation marks and almost completely eliminating the sources. LutherQuest (sic) let McCain post his links for a long time, even after I proved how much plagiarism existed in those LQ links. 

No apology. No retraction. 

Likewise, though I repeatedly asked McCain's boss about an editor engaged in blatant plagiarism, it was not Kintz' business for some odd reason. The plagiarized blog disappeared.

No apology. No retraction.

Glende and Ski engaged in the same kind of plagiarism, but they were defended by the WELS DP at the time.
No apology. No retraction.

Discipline followed in the Glende/Ski situation. They excommunicated the lawyer who pointed out the truth and spoke to them about it. 

WELS Church and Changer John Parlow posted "his" sermons on the church website. They were clearly taken from other sources. He addressed the situation by stating - Copies of the sermon may be obtained from the church secretary. 

In one hilarious incident, WELS pastors Parlow/Limmer had the same reaction as the Willow Creek skirt chaser, verbatim. Maybe I can find it in my archives.

----- Original Message -----

From: jp (this is how John Parlow sends his messages)

Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 2:47 PM
Subject: Letter from Pastor Limmer (not sure how Limmer got added, but he was)

Dear St. Mark Family,
I have never been an early riser all my life. And so for someone like me to be tossing and turning two hours before sunrise, after a fourteen hour work day at St. Mark...well that is worth trying to figure out. Jet lag? Nope. I have been in the same time zone for weeks. Family trouble? Nope. My family still graciously puts up with all my quirks. Anxiety? The world has its share of troubles, and I like many of you, have felt the need to pray more fervently for so many who are suffering. But after reflecting on that for a little while, I knew that wasn't the root cause of my sleeplessness.

Being the seasoned spiritual leader that I am, I finally resorted to a formula that has been a secret embarrassment to me for decades: "When all else fails...turn to God and ask for help." When I quietly breathed a prayer for insight from above, the Spirit whispered, "It is old fashioned excitement, Bill. You felt it in years past when Holy Week services were filled with a sense of anticipation and wonder and you are feeling it again now. It is a good thing. In fact, why not revel in the fact that you have been doing something for fifteen years and you love it so much that you can't sleep come ‘game day’." Duh.

Last night I prayed for Scott as I knew he would be putting on the finishing touches for the three Maundy Thursday Services. And today I'm contemplating the final rehearsals for our Good Friday services, and felt a sharp pang of sadness that it is not being broadcast all over the world. It was that touching to me. I was completely convinced that any and all who experience it will be moved to tears as I was, and as irresistibly drawn to the Crucified One. The Tenebrae services are at 12:30, 3:30 and 6:30 tomorrow.

Earlier in the day John, a few others and I reviewed the Easter message. (Remember we are at West High, 966 Shawano Ave. at 7:30 and 9:30 a.m.) As the group left my office, I sat with John and we grieved over the fact that we would only be having eight Holy Week services! All John and I could talk about was the redemptive potential of the next four days. Who knows what God might do--in how many lives?!

Friends, don't miss anything these next few days. Don't miss private promptings from God regarding what He wants you to reflect on this Holy Week. Don't miss a single opportunity to ask additional friends and family to come with you to the services. Don't miss the teaching moments with young children that this season affords. Miss a little sleep...but don't miss anything else. Deal?
Bill

[Milwaukee -- Cardinal Stritch Coll
(F) Rev Bill F Limmer
The Point of Grace, Milwaukee WI
414-963-2047
pastorbill@thepointofgrace.net
Wisconsin Lutheran Student Center Worship Facility]



---

But two and one-half hours earlier, this message had already arrived from Bill Hybels, Willow Creek Community Church:


----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Hybels
To: enews@arrow.willowcreek.org
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 12:08 PM
Subject: Sleepless in Barrington (from Bill Hybels)

Dear Enews Family,

I have been an early riser all my life. It goes back to growing up in a family that owned a fresh produce business. But for someone like me to be tossing and turning two hours before sunrise, after a sixteen hour work day at Willow...well that is worth trying to figure out. Jet lag? Nope. I have been in the same time zone for weeks. Family trouble? Nope. We recently returned from one of the most enjoyable vacations we have ever had. Anxiety? The world has its share of troubles, and I like many of you, have felt the need to pray more fervently for so many who are suffering. But after reflecting on that for a little while, I knew that wasn't the root cause of my sleeplessness.

Being the seasoned spiritual leader that I am, I finally resorted to a formula that has been a secret embarrassment to me for decades: "When all else fails...turn to God and ask for help." When I quietly breathed a prayer for insight from above, the Spirit whispered, "It is old fashioned excitement, Bill. You felt it in years past when Good Friday and Easter services were filled with a sense of anticipation and wonder and you are feeling it again now. It is a good thing. In fact, why not revel in the fact that you have been doing something for thirty years and you love it so much that you can't sleep come ‘game day’." Duh.

Last night I sat through the final rehearsals for our Good Friday services, and felt a sharp pang of sadness that it is not being broadcast all over the world. It was that touching to me. I was completely convinced that any and all who experience it will be moved to tears as I was, and as irresistibly drawn to the Crucified One. The first service starts tonight at 7:00 p.m. (And then we get to do it three more times on Friday--at 4:00, 6:00, and 8:00 p.m.!)

Earlier in the day God had graciously given my Easter message to me, after which the team and I reviewed the Easter program one final time. As the group left my office, I sat alone for just a moment and grieved over the fact that we would only be able to do it seven times! At the end of my workday Greg Ferguson and I did our typical run, but at a ridiculously fast pace, because all we could talk about was the redemptive potential of the next four days. Who knows what God might do--in how many lives?!

So, that's why I'm pecking at my laptop well before the guys with broken exhaust systems deliver the newspapers . . .raw spiritual amperage. And at my age...it is a good thing.

Friends, don't miss anything these next few days. Don't miss private promptings from God regarding what He wants you to reflect on this Holy Week. Don't miss a single opportunity to ask additional friends and family to come with you to the services. Don't miss the teaching moments with young children that this season affords. Miss a little sleep...but don't miss anything else. Deal?

Bill

-------------------------------
To find out about this weekend's service or what's happening around Willow Creek Community Church, visit http://www.willowcreek.org.
To unsubscribe from E-news, send a blank message to enews@willowcreek.org with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.
If you have questions about Willow Creek, you can e-mail info@willowcreek.org or call (847)765-5000. Thank you.

---

2009 Links

The Rebels Guide To Plagiarism - How To Get Promoted from Round Rock to Asian Prof

Church and Change Conference in Appleton

2010 Links

Parlow Plagiarism

Hilarious Kelm Graphic - From Anonymous - Not That One, Another Anonymous

More Fox Valley Plagiarism - From Intrepid Lutherans

Bethany Appleton Caught Plagiarizing Swindoll

Apology Erased from Bethany Websty


2011 Links

Why Did Pastor Christenson Leave St. Peter in Freedom after a Few Months?

Deep Sixing the Plagiarism Issue - Intrepids


2012 Links

Plagiarism from Paul McCain, MDiv



2013 Links



Intrepids - Steve Spencer - Afraid 

2008 Links

St. Mark DePere - removes evidence of plagiarism from their websty

GJ - St. Mark is the home of Church and Change, a political lobby funded by your offering money, WELS members. 

Creepy Plagiarism - Church and Changers Copy Each Other and Their False Teaching Idols

Church and Change Misbegotten Ideas - Including Ski from St. Marcus and Cross-Dressing Pastor Adam Mueller

Church and Change Board Member Ski Evacuates to Appleton

Another Coven of Changers Offering Their Toxins - Ski Again

You Must Read This - Parlow and Timmer Plagiarize Hybels Words and Emotions

Too Funny - Rick Warren Sends Taped Sermon to Mars Hill Closing

Glende, Ski, and Bishop Katie pretended to go to a WELS pastoral conference
when they traveled to Seattle to study under Mark Driscoll, Mars Hill.
The Jeske Mob loves anti-Lutheran ministry education.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2025336265_marshilllastday1xml.html

Sadness, hope as Mars Hill Church holds final services

Once-booming church officially ends Thursday, with remaining locations dissolving or becoming individual religious entities.

By Alexa Vaughn

Seattle Times staff reporter

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Mark Driscoll

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My sadness is for the people who placed their faith in a man instead of in God. Mark Driscoll is no man of God, and... (December 28, 2014) MORE

"I have never heard anything preached at Mars Hill that is contrary to the Word of God" No wonder you're so easily... (December 28, 2014) MORE

Very sad ending to a church that helped so many. All my best to the eleven independent churches that have now been... (December 28, 2014) MORE

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Erik and Heidi Barnett knew the Mars Hill Church organization was holding its last day of services when they arrived at its Ballard location Sunday.

They knew why the last services had arrived: Aseries of controversies swirling around its charismatic co-founder and leader, Mark Driscoll, prompted the disbandment of the 18-year-old evangelical organization that had once spread to five states and served at least 13,000 Sunday worshippers.

As of Thursday, New Year’s Day, all its remaining churches will either dissolve or splinter off into individual religious entities.

But it still took the Barnetts by surprise when not even half the chairs at the 9 a.m. service were filled.

“It used to be packed; if you came even a little late, it was standing-room only,” said Heidi, 39.

The couple, who have recently been attending a Mars Hill church in Shoreline, were returning to the first Mars Hill site they worshipped at to say goodbye to an institution they say forever changed their lives for the better and brought them closer than ever to Jesus Christ.

After Driscoll converted the former Ballard hardware store into an urban church in 2003, Mars Hill and Driscoll’s preaching became so popular that several other locations opened over the next decade in Washington, Arizona, Oregon, California and New Mexico.

“I know for many of us, this is a bittersweet day,” Pastor Matthias Haeusel said to a crowd of about 200 before playing a 45-minute video-sermon that nationally known author and Pastor Rick Warren recorded for the organization’s last day of services.

The Mars Hill name has been plagued with bad headlines over the last year as Driscoll became increasingly associated with offensive remarks and contentious church politics. Church leaders accused him of lying, bullying members, threatening opponents and mismanaging church funds. Driscoll resigned from the megachurch in October.

But Haeusel said that as the Ballard church prepares for a new identity on Thursday — the Cross & Crown Church — he can feel a lifting of the mood of the approximately 600 people who still worship at its three Sunday services.

“There is still a level of sadness, some bewilderment,” Haeusel said. “Right now, though, it’s feeling like those emotions are beginning to crest into some excitement for what’s next.”

Timothy Malcham, 22, of Belltown, said he’s one of many looking forward to leaving behind controversies that distracted from the Ballard congregation’s services.

“It’ll be nice to be able to invite people to church again without all the baggage of Mars Hill getting in the way,” said Malcham. “This place has always been about Jesus and about people. It’s easy for me to get behind the people and staff at this church, and I’m confident they’ll make it healthier.”

Haeusel said the leadership structure of the Cross & Crown Church has not been completely hashed out. He said the Evangelical Christian Credit Union the church banks with wants to see fewer paid members on the church’s board before a new leadership structure is approved.

The Mars Hill Church signs on the building should be taken down by Jan. 9, Haeusel said, but changes within the church will evolve more gradually. Its service times and overall interior will not change.

Warren’s sermon, which was played at each of the remaining Mars Hill church locations, encouraged worshippers to see that distasteful moments in life will still come together as part of a beautiful — and maybe delicious — divine plan.

A self-professed “purpose-driven eater” who loves cooking with his wife, Warren compared God’s divine plan to baking a cake made with salt, flour, eggs and sugar.

“Eaten individually, every one of those items is pretty distasteful ... even if you eat sugar by itself, it’s just not that good,” Warren said. “But if you stir it all in, all things work together.”

Alexa Vaughn: 206-464-2515 or avaughn@seattletimes.com. On Twitter @AlexaVaughn.

***

GJ - Ski, Glende, and Bishop Katie traveled across the US together, attending various Evangelical cult churches to learn how to be successful. Katie resigned from The CORE suddenly (no reasons given). Ski resigned from The CORE and the ministry, only to be rescued by DP Don Patterson. Glende is building a new St. Timothy's across the road from St. Peter's in Freedom, Wisconsin.

Lest we forget, the man who started this, Robert Schuller, lost his church campus, his retirement, and his congregation, after decades of telling ministers (for a big fee) how to be successful.

Mark and Avoid Jeske caught the vision long ago.
Glende and Ski are both graduates of the Wizards' Academy,
aka St. Marcus in Milwaukee.