Showing posts with label Murdoch. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Murdoch. Show all posts

Tuesday, June 16, 2015

Unholy Lizard Hands on the Bible - Comments about the New NIV,
Mandatory at WELS Northworst Publishing House



http://www.intrepidlutherans.com/2015/05/wels-makes-it-official-all-wels.html#comment-form



Mr. Douglas Lindee said...
...Continued from previous post

If interested, one source of Burgen's collected works that I can highly recommend is Volume One of the series, Unholy Hands on the Bible, which contains the following works of Burgon:

The Traditional Text of the New Testament
The Causes of Corruption of the Holy Gospels
The Last Twelve Verses of the Gospel of Mark
The Revision Revised
GOD Manifested in the Flesh
The Woman Taken in Adultery
The Secret Spanking of Westcott and Hort
Conflation and the "Neutral" Text

A comparison of Burgon to the likes of Metzger and Robertson (advocates of higher-criticism) can be instructive. For my part, although I am not nearly as widely read on the issue of textual criticism as others are, I have yet to hear or read any argument for retaining the higher-critical method, whether from Robertson, Metzger or anyone else, that is as powerful as Burgon's arguments for not doing so to begin with. I am deeply suspicious of modern writers who casually dismiss the danger of higher critical theories and their modern descendents, especially given that it has been rejected in practically every field except Biblical studies (literary and historical sciences, for example, generally reject it after empirical evidence has shown that it is unreliable). But my advice is for people to read the material firsthand, rather than accept reports about it from me or anyone else, and come to your own conclusions.

Continued in next post...
Mr. Douglas Lindee said...
...Continued from previous post

What does this have to do with the NKJV? Well, the NKJV is the ONLY modern version of the Bible published today that does NOT use the higher-critical "Critical Text." All other translations that I am aware of use the Greek found in the "Critical Text" as their basis. Instead, NKJV uses the "Majority Text," which does not give unnatural weight to those hokey Egyption copies. The Majority Text represents a different way of collating the thousands of Greek copies we have now -- essentially following the methods of traditional textual criticism by eliminating "families" and giving equal weight to all of the witnesses -- as an alternative to the Critical Text. They both use the same collection of cpoies, it's just that the bloated influence given to the Egyptian copies in the method of the Critical Text is totally eliminated in the Majority Text. Given equal weighting to all texts individuall, given the vast numbers of Byzantine copies compared to those from Egyption sources, and given the remarkable agreement of the Byzantine witnesses, the result is that the influence of the Egyption copies is dwarfed, and thus the Majority Text essentially reflects the contents of the Byzantine sources -- just like the "Textus Receptus" first collected by Erasmus (though his text was produced from only a handful of Byzantine Texts).

Continued in next post...
Mr. Douglas Lindee said...
...Continued from previous post

All of this may soon be a moot point, however, as the next edition of the Nestle-Aland "Critical Text" (28th Edition) will follow an altogether different method than one can learn from Metzger, Robertson, Aland or Burgon. It follows a relatively newly devised "Geneological-Coherence Method" -- something which I personally am only just becoming acquainted with. This new Method totally eliminates the idea of "text families," and of using them as a basis for assigning authority to certain readings, and instead compares every known variant according to a variety of criteria, in order to determine their relationship and ultimately find what would statistically be the "initial copy". And this is the critical aspect of this new Method. Beginning with the 28th Edition of the Nestle-Aland Critical Text, we will no long have, even in the original languages, anything that could be called "The Original" text, or even a representation of it. This new method is limited to producing what they call an "Initial Text" -- which may be representative of a text existing in the Third of Fourth Centuries. A second critical aspect of this new Method is the reality of continuous updates to the Greek text. It is never fixed, nor can it be regarded as even theoretically fixed, but as continuously moving and shifting, dependent on the discovery of new texts, or other historical or linguistic facts that may impact the criteria used to analyze the body of collected texts. Bible versions descending from this Method will likewise be subject to continuous updating -- and we've already been warned by the CBT (the NIV Committee on Bible Translation) of more frequent updates to the NIV (which reveals how monumentally stupid it is to standardize a hymnal project on the NIV family of translations, assuming the hymnal is going to be around for more than a few years...).

Due to the immense amount of data, computers will perform the analysis on the texts, while the whole project awaits the massive manpower necessary to enter the data. This eliminates the role of the individual pastor in selecting an authoritative reading during his study -- the computer says what it is, and there is no arguing with the computer... But it will take some time to complete -- around the year 2030, is what I recall. But already this new method has resulted in some fairly startling changes to the underlying Greek text, and it is expected to impact many of the references used as proof texts in our catechism, not only for Baptism (Mark 16), but also Headship, Church and Ministry, and others. No one really knows what the specific results will be, nor how broad their impact will be, which explains both the ambivalence of the TEC toward any specific translation, along with the rapidly changing practices of the WELS with respect to womens roles.

If you want to know more, here is a provocative paper written by a Concordia Seminary Professor on the subject:Text and Authority: Theological and Hermeneutical Reflections on a Plastic Text. To be fair, I think that the author later said his paper was intended for consumption by a select group of his peers, not by the general public, and that he would have written it differently had he known that it would see broader distribution. It's been passed around. Alot. Some of his points and positions were written to deliberately "stir discussion" among his peers (who are all academics) -- but that makes them all the more worthy of discussion.

Continued in next post...
Mr. Douglas Lindee said...
...Continued from previous post

In the best construction, your WELS pastors aren't saying anything at all, because they are ignorant. If this is not the case, then there must be something far more sinister going on. If they are not merely ignorant and disinterested, then they are deliberately not telling the truth by choosing to say nothing at all. Perhaps they think they are protecting you. Perhaps there is some other benefit to hiding the truth. The reality is, very serious changes are afoot in Christianity -- especially when it can be said of these changes, "Who knows what the Bible is going to say in fifteen years? We'll just have to wait and see."

Maybe this was more than you wanted to know... I for one will stick with what I've learned, and pray that someone much more intelligent and capable than I am is both equipped and willing to fight this war. Whoever it is, he is likely to have very few allies.

Mr. Douglas Lindee said...
So work to stop it now - boycott any product that uses the NIV2011 - lead.

Yes, the vacuum of leadership on this issue is simply mind boggling. When we first came to WELS in 1999, one of our immediate annoyances was their use of the NIV. We had already rejected it based on a number of factors, including its use of the "Critical Text" instead of the "Majority Text" as the source of the NT translation, the use of the Greek "Septuagint" instead of the Hebrew "Masoretic Text" as the source of the OT translation, in addition to the post-Modern ideology of "Dynamic Equivalence" as a basis for the entire translation. Even without these considerations, on their face, there are simply many more and better reasons to use translations from the King James family, including far better and more precise English and continuity with the Church usage over the centuries.

When we questioned him on WELS "rejection of the Historical Critical Method" while at the same time embracing the Critical Text (which comes from the same methodology), our pastor immediately quipped "Oh! King James Only types, eh?" and dismissed all of our concerns with the list of clichés he'd been fed at seminary and throughout his ~30-year career -- all of which we had heard before, as they are repeated ad nauseum all over the internet, and are taken up in various places with thoughtful responses of theologians and exegetes who share these concerns. When we pressed him further on certain points, he said that we'd have to take it up with the professors at the seminary, "They can answer your questions, they know what they are doing." When they don't know, their fallback is the seminary -- that's where everything they do know came from anyway.

The only leadership that will emerge on this issue, is the leadership that has already been appointed -- the TEC, for one, and other liberalizing voices from the seminary and colleges that support this new direction. I'd be surprised --pleasantly surprised -- if it happened any differently.

My Opinion.
Anonymous said...
Since the original topic of this post was the new hymnal, I think it is noteworthy to recognize what happened with the transition from The Lutheran Hymnal to Christian Worship in one particular instance. In some churches, fewer and fewer as time goes on, it is still a practice to confess the Athanasian Creed on Trinity Sunday. The Athanasian Creed, as printed in Christian Worship, begins by saying:

"Whoever wishes to be saved must, above all else, hold to the true Christian faith."

The Lutheran Hymnal, with a more historical text, uses the word "will" in place of "wishes". It says:

"Whoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic [i.e. universal, Christian] faith."

Now maybe this is a small thing, but for me, the word "wishes" implies that somehow man plays a role, while the word "will" implies to me that our salvation comes from outside of us.

I was particularly sensitive to this wording, because some of the objective justification persuasion will be heard saying:

"Everyone has been saved."

In my opinion, the word "saved" in the Athanasian Creed is harmonious with it's use in Scripture. The use of the word "saved" by some who define objective justification seems to be harmonious with neither.

What does that have to do with the new hymnal? Simply this. Considering how the words of the Athanasian Creed were changed from The Lutheran Hymnal to Christian Worship, what can we expect to see in the Athanasian Creed in the new hymnal, if it still is found in the newest version? With the 2011 NIV now bringing the concept of gender neutrality directly into worship, what's to keep new versions of the Confessions consistent with the truths they originally confessed?

Vernon
Dr. Joseph Jewell said...
Mr. Lindee,

That series of comments/posts was both scholarly and thoroughly educational (the two do not always overlap). Thank you for the work you put into helping all of us stay abreast of these issues.

"Maybe this was more than you wanted to know..."

No, I don't think so at all. It may even be worth its own post.

Thursday, September 5, 2013

AFP: Australian tycoon to sue Murdoch, NNIV Publisher, claims wife 'Chinese spy'

Lizard-hands Rupert Murdoch owns your precious NNIV, WELS.
The Babtists will not even sell it in their stores,
but WELS is hotter than George asphalt for this parody of God's Word.


AFP: Australian tycoon to sue Murdoch NNIV Publisher, claims wife 'Chinese spy':

Australian tycoon to sue Murdoch, claims wife 'Chinese spy'
(AFP) – 13 hours ago  
SYDNEY — Flamboyant Australian billionaire Clive Palmer on Thursday said he plans to sue Rupert Murdoch over unflattering allegations and claimed the media mogul's estranged wife is a Chinese spy.
Palmer, best known for building a replica of the Titanic and who is running for election in Australia on Saturday, seethed over a comment piece questioning his wealth and whether he was indeed a university professor and a mining magnate, as he claims.
Murdoch's flagship The Australian ran the story on its front page under the headline "Why we need to worry about the real Mr Palmer", alleging he was "a man with a history of peddling fantasies that often morph into a unique version of 'reality'".
According to the latest polls, the Palmer United Party is on track to win a Senate seat in his home state of Queensland and the daily said it would allow him to "exert his unsubtle influence in Canberra".
"Contrary to the flim-flam and spin, Clive Frederick Palmer is not a professor, not an adviser to the G20, not a mining magnate, not a legal guru and not an advocate for freedom of speech. He's probably not a billionaire," the newspaper said.
The broadsheet is backing conservative opposition leader Tony Abbott to win the election and said it had spent months examining Palmer's track record.
Palmer, who says he has made his money in mining and is also a real estate developer and tourism resort operator, was a long-time supporter of Abbott's Liberal-National coalition. He tore up his membership last year after a bitter, public dispute and set up his own party.
He accused Australian-born Murdoch, now a US citizen, of telling his reporters what to write and said he needed to be brought to account.
"Murdoch will be sued by me today and will be brought to Australia to answer these questions in the Supreme Court," he told the Seven Network.
"It's time this fellow was brought to account, this foreigner who tries to dictate what we do."

'via Blog this'

Friday, October 26, 2012

Hilarious WELS NNIV Comments.
Should Be Called the Hooters Report, From People Hooting with Laughter


The Southern Babtists do not want the NNIV in their bobble stores.
They can't like this bobble.
Mainline apostates love the NNIV.

They will keep studying that thing until everyone approves it. They had the young guys, worried about future calls, review the NNIV anonymously. How quaint.

The five weakest passages in this section of the NIV11
D 1) Ro 3:27 “Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.”


With the 2011 edition the NIV no longer uses “principle” as its translation of νόμος in this verse. The reader instead is allowed to appreciate how Paul is playing on that word νόμος. Due to our usual understanding of “law,” however, one wonders how many readers will discern the point the apostle is making. In addition, rendering νόμος πίστεως as “the law that requires faith” implies that believing the Gospel is the one deed that God demands.
“All you have to do is believe” is not a Scriptural doctrine, however.

---

Ninevah to replace the HIV translation.
Apostates rejoice.
Schroeder helpless.

Romans 3:24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
By repeating
“all” from the previous clause, the NIV11 makes universal / objective justification more clear in this context than the ESV which does not restate the subject for the second verb and the HCSB which opts for “They are justified….” Here the NIV11 has the simplest exegetical-doctrinal solution.

---

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "Hilarious WELS NNIV Comments. Should Be Called the...":

The UOJist's perversion of Romans 3:24 is consistent with their continued persecution of Christ and His Church.

Solafide recently brought attention to this twisting of God's Word in this post :
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/10/sola-fide-has-been-bad-not-allow-to.html

A simple look at the context of verses which the UOJists rip their proof texts from is enough for a third grader to label them heretics and enemies of the cross of Christ.

Romans 3:
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


Only a pagan can get UOJ (justification: the forgiveness of sins without faith) out of those passages.

WELS NNIV Promotion Continues.
Brett Meyer Answers



WELS Communication Services is sending this broadcast to you on behalf of the Translation Evaluation Committee—

Oct. 25, 2012

Dear Brothers in Christ,

The Translation Evaluation Committee has completed compiling the raw data from an extensive side-by-side review of three Bible translations—the English Standard Version (ESV), the Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB), and the New International Version 2011 (NIV11). The study involved a wide variety of WELS pastors to review and evaluate the different translations for potential use in WELS publications. The review process was distributed in April 2012 to 102 reviewers, and the results are now available on the WELS Web site.

View the reports

Your Brother in Christ,

Lee Hitter
Director of Communications

----

Intrepid Links:

ISSUES WITH NIV 2011

"Church and Continuity" Conference Review: Rev. Koester on Gender Neutral Translating
Jun 5, 2012
NIV Translation Posts Compiled
Jan 6, 2012
ELS doctrine committee recommends against NIV 2011
Dec 7, 2011
The LORD (no longer) Our Righteousness in NIV 2011
Nov 30, 2011
"Relevance," and Mockery of the Holy Martyrs
Nov 30, 2011
The Gender Gutting of the Bible in NIV 2011
Nov 28, 2011
On "Emasculated Bibles" and being "Objective"
Nov 15, 2011
The Case of the Disappearing "Testament:" Modern Bible Translations and Covenantal Theology
Oct 15, 2011
Thoughts on Gender-Neutral Language in the NIV 2011
Sep 15, 2011
Post-Modernism, Pop-culture, Transcendence, and the Church Militant
Sep 13, 2011
"The saints" are no more
Aug 15, 2011
The NIV 2011 and the Importance of Translation Ideology
Aug 02, 2011
The NNIV, the WELS Translation Evaluation Committee, and the Perspicuity of the Scriptures
July 28, 2011
NIV 2011: A brotherly debate
July 27, 2011
NNIV - the new standard for WELS?
July 15, 2011
Anti-Semitic Sensitivity in the New NIV
December 15, 2010
NIV 2011 comparison with NIV 1984 and TNIV
(links to slowley.com)

DP Diaprax says:

"We welcome your opinions and comments so we know which guys to expel in the coming months."

---

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "WELS NNIV Promotion Continues":

Pastor Jackson, you should post the Numerical Data that is included in the WELS reports.

The NNIV is clearly the only choice WELS can go with according to the three "carefully" selected review groups.

(W)ELS laity who have studied the NNIV translation and see how blasphemous Moo's Methodist, Baptist, Jewish, Catholic, Pentecostal translation is, and vomited in reaction, should brace themselves for a lifetime of that wretched excrement being force fed them by their "Leadership". Leadership which identifies the Church of the Antichrist to be Christian. And big surprise because it's the same leadership which has anathematized One Justification solely By Faith Alone in favor of their new gospel (UOJ) of God's divine verdict of forgiveness and righteousness without faith worked by the Holy Ghost graciously through the Means of Grace.

UOJ is faithless forgiveness. God's grace and the righteousness of Christ for the forgiveness of sins but not salvation. UOJ blasphemes Christ, the Holy Spirit and God the Father. May the Lord reward them according to their words and works. And may the Lord continue to strengthen and preserve his Church on earth through the continued preaching of Christ's pure doctrine as clearly taught in Scripture and faithfully explained in the Christian Book of Concord.

***

GJ - The numerical data is just part of the process. They will tell everyone how popular the NNIV is with the newly brainwashed pastors, and people will tire of the discussion and go along with it.

---

Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "WELS NNIV Promotion Continues. Brett Meyer Answers...":

Per the Summary of the Numerical Ratings:

Question
Which translation was ranked best regarding acceptability?

Best or tied for best - 82% of all reviewers ranked the NNIV the best. 26% ranked HCSB the best. 10% ranked ESV the best (BM - McCaininites will be furious!)

Of the MLS and MLC professors, Synod admins, District Presidents and publishing house editors in group #1 there were 91% which ranked the NNIV the best with the HCSB coming in second with 15%.

Of the WELS pastors who bowed low to the Synod during its Jan 2012 translation workshop in group #2 there were 74% which ranked the NNIV as the best translation.

Of the green and recently brainwashed MLS graduates 82% ranked the NNIV as the best translation.

***

GJ - Tolja. I recall the original vote yielded about 16% wanting the NNIV.

Keep voting until they agree. Then announce it as the overwhelming favorite.

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solafide (http://solafide.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "WELS NNIV Promotion Continues. Brett Meyer Answers...":

"GJ - Tolja. I recall the original vote yielded about 16% wanting the NNIV.

Keep voting until they agree. Then announce it as the overwhelming favorite."


I'd give anything to be at Synod Convention (@ MLC) next summer. I guarantee you that there will be a massive push to approve the NIV2011 since "We can't wait anymore!!!!" and "We need to stop holding NPH and others hostage to these endless discussions on translations."