Some Wonderment from Those Happy Clappy Growthers

McCained (Kelmed) from Wikipedia:

I don’t believe making disciples must equal making adherents to the Christian religion. It may be advisable in many (not all!) circumstances to help people become followers of Jesus and remain within their Buddhist, Hindu or Jewish contexts … rather than resolving the paradox via pronouncements on the eternal destiny of people more convinced by or loyal to other religions than ours, we simply move on … To help Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, and everyone else experience life to the full in the way of Jesus (while learning it better myself), I would gladly become one of them (whoever they are), to whatever degree I can, to embrace them, to join them, to enter into their world without judgment but with saving love as mine has been entered by the Lord (A Generous Orthodoxy, 260, 262, 264).

And....

"Even if we are convinced that all homosexual behavior is always sinful, we still want to treat gay and lesbian people with more dignity, gentleness, and respect than our colleagues do. If we think that there may actually be a legitimate context for some homosexual relationships, we know that the biblical arguments are nuanced and multilayered, and the pastoral ramifications are staggeringly complex. We aren't sure if or where lines are to be drawn, nor do we know how to enforce with fairness whatever lines are drawn."

And...

"Our interpretations reveal less about God or the Bible than they do about ourselves. They reveal what we want to defend, what we want to attack, what we want to ignore, what we're unwilling to question..." (A New Kind of Christian, 50)

Remember Rob Bell, the apostate "evangelist" who rejected Christian doctrine in Love Wins? McLaren defended Rob Bell - and why not? - McLaren teaches the same Universalism while denying he is a Universalist!

More of McLaren's ravings are quoted here.

Sound familiar WELS fans?

The Church Growth Movement, which was centered at Fuller Seminary (training ground for most LCMS, WELS, ELCA, and ELS leaders) has morphed or metastasized into Emergent Church/Becoming Missional.

ELCA pastors probably put up more fuss about Church Growth than the other Lutheran groups put together. They cross-referenced each other, too. They left ELCA in disgust and joined the Church of Rome, which also uses Church Growth methods. Justice! Neuhaus is a prime example of hating Church Growth, saying some good things against it (Ad Fontes Conference, attended by the Ichabods), and joining Rome.

But WELS and Missouri "conservatives" said nothing and did nothing while heavily promoting Church Growth and participating with ELCA in Church Growth projects like the Thrivent Church Membership Initiative.

By emasculating themselves, the "conservative" clergy and laity left the field wide open for the next stage of Church Growth - Emergent Church under such leaders as McLaren, Andy Stanley, and Mark Driscoll.


Emergent Church/Missional Characteristics

1. The parish avoids the denominational name and even the word "church" - as in The CORE, CrossWalk, CrossRoads.
2. The clergypersons (including women pastors) dress like they are going to change the oil in their jalopy, as if they dug the clothes out of the hamper or the rag bin.
3. No liturgy, sound hymns, or creeds in the service.
4. The sermon is replaced by a rant - cussing is really cool and edgy.
5. Music is loud, ecclesiatical rock.
6. Lighting is modeled after rock concert extravaganzas.
7. Doctrinal content is marketed as inclusive, but it is really covert Universalism, lacking the Law and making fun of faith (perfect for the UOJ Hive).
8. Cell groups are essential, mandated, but sound doctrine is a burden, an obstacle.
9. Pulpit views are consistently on the far Left on all social issues - in the name of love.

Andy Stanley and Ski - WELS The Core.
Ski, Tim Glende, and many other WELS disciples have attended Stanley worship conferences.
Gay activist Stanley has been a featured speaker at many Willow Creek conferences:
Missouri and WELS are deep into Willow Creek.
The Ichabods attended WC to observe and later to retch.
John Parlow is a WC disciple and Andy Stanley follower.

Ski posted his account of worship at the Drive conference for many years.
I copied most of it into this blog.
Here is what Stanley said about his gay outreach:
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/05/mentor-to-ski-glende-parlow-buske-and.html

Kelmed from Ichabod at this link:

http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2012/05/drive-08-pastors-conference-north-point.html

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW:

WHO WENT THAT YOU MIGHT KNOW?

Pastor Ski - St. Marcus - Milwaukee

Pastor John Parlow - St. Mark - Depere

Pastor Jim Buske - Lighthouse Youth Center - Milwaukee

HOW LONG WERE WE THERE?

May 3rd - May 7th

WHERE WAS THE CONFERENCE?

North Point (Babtist) Church, Alpharetta, GA

FAVORITE PART OF THE CONFERENCE:

Final Main Session with Andy Stanley

FAVORITE BREAK OUT SESSION:

A Healthy Staff Culture

- Jeff Henderson

FAVORITE QUOTE FROM DRIVE ‘08

“Leaders don’t get people, they attract them”

- Andy Stanley

DRIVE ’08 JOURNAL

Whew!  Day 5, it has been a heck of a road trip.  Today was the last day.  As you can see it was jam packed.  Before I get into Day 5... Let me just say this, “We should have sat in traffic to go to the Brown Bridge Campus!”  Buske & I were bitter.  Remember that I had said John got frustrated sitting the parking lot for 30 minutes?  So we went to dinner & called it a night.  Well, on Day 5 they showed the video for what happened at Brown Bridge.  Sweet cookout, the food looked awesome, games and fellowship outside (without snow or cold, I might add) and then a surprise JEFF FOXWORTHY show.  Man, how are they gonna top that next year?

Anyway, Day 5.  It is kind of crazy, just when you think it can’t get any better, it does.  Well, sort of.  In the morning they had Q & As for different groups.  I went to one that was about linking adults into small group studies.  It was well done, but for me it is difficult because everyone is looking for concrete answers on how to solve their own personal small group issues.  Many of the questions didn’t apply for us at St. Marcus.  However, the leaders were great and had a ton of info.

My final breakout session was entitled Parental Guidance Required.  The leader was Clay Scroggins.  He kind of looked like Steve James (he’s a St. Marcus member, Steve that is) but he talked with a Texas drawl.  He was high energy.  Based on his presentation and his passion for kids, I imagine that he rocked it out with kids.  The gist of his session was that what happens in the home has a greater influence on the spiritual life of children than what happens at church.  Based on that it becomes imperative that parents & the church partner.  Here are the steps that North Point uses:

1. 1.Inform Parents - inform them about what is being taught to their children.
2. 2.Partner With Parents - invite parents to be in an environment with their children.
3. 3.Equip Parents - provide parents with the tools to assist in the spiritual development of their children.

Pretty good points and a really good session.  

After that session we broke for lunch.  John took off for the airport, so Buske and I were on our own.  That might sound a little scary, but it is true.

The final Main Session with Andy Stanley was just phenomenal.  We began with awesome worship.  Today though, they began with a Christian rapper, Toby Mac.  Our school kids would have loved it.  I’m not sure that they would have believed that it was church though.

When Andy began his session.  He started by saying that he was not going to follow his notes in the Drive ’08 Journal Book.  Instead he was going to do something that he called, “Recent Random Thoughts On Church Leadership.”  He shared 5 points and 5 takeaways.  I think that he was at his absolute best this afternoon.  Here are the 5 point & takeaways:

1. 1.To reach people no one else is reaching we must do things no one else is doing.

Takeaway - Become preoccupied with those you haven’t reached as opposed to those you keep.  This is easier said than done.

Wow, it seems so simple.  And yet so hard.

2. 2.The next generation product almost never comes from the previous generation.

Takeaway - Be a student not a critic.

What more can be said?  How do we approach things?  When things are different & involve change are we scared?  Do we criticize or do we look to learn and implement?

3. 3.What do I believe is impossible to do in my field?  But if it could be done it would fundamentally change my business.

Takeaway - Pay attention to the people who are breaking the rules.

Crazy sounding isn’t it?  We can fight technology and change, but in the end it will pass us and we will become archaic and irrelevant.  Not our Message, but the manner in which we present it.  Who would have ever thought texting would be as big as it is?  How about multi-site church?  Video church?  These are all things that have changed how we worship.

4. 4.If we got kicked out & the board brought in a new CEO what would they do?  Why shouldn’t we walk out the door & then come back in & do it ourselves?

Takeaway - Acknowledge what is NOT working & own up to why you are unwilling to change it.

Some thoughts on this - rarely does the church (in general) get concerned about change until they run out of money.  What if we asked some questions before it was too late?

1. a.What’s in decline?
2. b.Where are we manufacturing energy? In other words pretending something is important.  An example would be if I continued to say that Bible Study was important, but never attended.  I’m blowing hot air, “manufacturing energy.”  I don’t believe that anyone wants to stand behind that or get involved in something like that.
3. c.Finally, when are we going to unearth all underlying assumptions?  Sometimes, what we assume, is not the reality.  Are we willing to dig to find out the truth or are we happy with assuming? 
5. 5.When your memories exceed your dreams the end is near.

Takeaway - Don’t let success or momentum overshadow your vision.  Keep the out front.

How quickly can we be satisfied?  How often do we look at things and say, “Well, it’s not great but it is better than such and such church.” Scary, but we sometimes fool ourselves into thinking like this.  Some questions to ponder:

1. a.What the burden on your heart? (sic, yo)
2. b.What breaks your heart?

That was it.  After that Andy just ended and prayed for all the people there & for there ministries.  As you can see from the pictures above, Buske & I got to get a picture with Andy, pretty cool.  He is way down to earth.  His wife Sandra was there also and she is just great.  We actually got to talk to her a little more than Andy.  You also notice John with the North Point member who played Bender in one of their sermon series called “Twisted”.  The series was all about how Satan twists God’s Word.  Finally, there is a photo of Buske & Todd Fields.  I’m a little bitter about that one, but you’ll need to ask me why.

Thanks to everyone who read this while I was gone.  Be looking for some cool stuff that we will be implementing at St. Marcus, especially in Sunday Night.  Thanks also for all the patience.  Writing this thing mostly between 1 AM & 2 AM means that there are probably a ton spelling and grammar mistakes.  I can’t wait to see you guys on Sunday.  Check out the Picture Page for some added photos from Drive ’08.

I’m out!

The CORE, which is only an evening service,
has not grown at all in three years or more.
But Ski is gone, so there is hope.

---

Jeske connects all the dots.
He is all about Change
and all about Jeske.

WELS, Ski, and Glende's Favorite Mega-Pastor Joel Osteen

 

 The Rev. Mrs. Joel Osteen escaped in anger after leaving her trial. 

Andy Stanley to host conference for Christian parents of LGBT-identified kids

Scheduled speakers include Evangelical pastor who resigned after board discovered son's attraction to minors.

By Ian M. Giatti, Christian Post Reporter

Ski, Glende and other WELS pastors/staff (8 total) went to Osteen's church years ago to soak up what WELS seemed to be lacking. One of my friends was offered free tuition at Fuller to learn about evangelism for the sect. He refused. 

Isn't that Joel Osteen with Ski?

Wayne Mueller was lying about "no Church Growth in WELS" while The Love Shack was sponsoring leaders, world missionaries, and pastors to attend Fuller. Lawrence Otto Olson, D.Min. Fuller, tried to establish his innocence in the pages of Christian News.

The LCMS is just as guilty, and ELCA goes to the same pathetic citadels of Enthusiasm.

Intrepids Man Up - With Church Lady!

"Fat, dumb, and full of trepidation is no way to go through life, son."


WELS church lady has left a new comment on your post "WELS Grace in Action - Typical WELS CoP Inaction":

I am outraged!(to say the LEAST)Grace In Action. Who's grace? Grace be to Jeske and pals, that's who. GIA has been around for a couple of years, but now they have become larger and have a real website. Let's look at some of the characters on the site. Jeff Gunn and Elton Stroh! It appears our friends are up to some Leadership type of training. Leadership, like Leadership Network.(leadnet.org)

I thought that the seminary was for training leaders. Oh yeh, I forgot, the seminary does not offer a course on how to get rich. While the Intrepids have been taking orders from the Webber Synod and soaking up Kokomo, the Changers were busy building their earthly empire.(aka storing riches on earth) These teachers have made it very clear that they care nothing about the Lutheran Confessions. Stroh has a new para-synod ministry listed on the GIA site. I would encourage these and all pastors not to attend the December event. A better alternative would be to stay home and read "The Shephered Under Christ."(NPH)

I'm tellin' you that Jeske ain't popular. If you think that it is only WELS folk on the blog that are upset with Jeske, your wrong! I have sat in pastors offices and sent/received emails. You have to pray for these people. Sulking will not help, and I will take this to the Intrepids. The blog was doing a very fine job until the Kokomo travel agents came on board.

In Christ,
from WELS church lady

Will Tim Glende's Fake-O-Bod Denounce Katy Perry's Hindu Wedding?

My prophetic Photoshop showed WELS Pastor Tim Glende in India with apostate Katy Perry - a former Gospel singer.

Perry has married her British potty-mouth boyfriend in India - of all places!

She began her career as a Gospel singer, but insisted on a Christian friend performing the rites in a Hindu ceremony. Where is the angry post about unionism and syncretism, Tim? You were once so close to Katy. How can you let this pass without a comment?

Where have you gone, Ski and Tim Glende
A synod turns its longing eyes to you (Woo, woo, woo)
What's that you say, Ski and Tim Glende
Kissin' Kate has left and gone away
(Hey, hey, hey...hey, hey, hey).

SIECUS Could Not Have Done It Better Than The SORE - Here Is Why

Paid fly-by.
SEEK US would be a good motto for this operation.


A keen observer of WELS and the cultural climate wrote:

I do have some observations re: the sex ed youtube. Outrageous as it is on the surface, obviously WELS hasn't a clue about Behavioral Psychology and the effect of "role playing" on those who assume the identity (role) of others and this time the role of the Devil. Behaviorists know that once ideas are verbalized by language a threshold becomes crossed by the person who might not otherwise verbalize or express what the character played says. It involves an element of giving ones self over to the characterizing of the character portrayed in order to be convincing. It is a dangerous thing to do especially with a subject having to do with a titillating subject for the purpose of "educating"?

The young man portraying the Devil is either a very well trained professional actor or he was enjoying playing the part of the Devil. Behaviorists know that repeated verbalization of words, phrases, and ideas once considered objectionable, become easier and easier to accommodate
and assimilate as acceptable and eventually "normal". They know that "role playing" works to break down barriers including moral barriers of society. That is why it is used so much in corporate, education, etc.(and yes churches) to create conformity and "group think".

The danger for the soul of an actor who plays the Devil exists not only for himself, but for the hearers who become accustomed to the language. In the case of the WELS youtube....SEICUS couldn't have done it any better. There can be a place for theater or drama, but many years ago Missouri Synod had provisional membership for people who were actors or involved in theater, for the very reason of the dangers to the soul when putting one's own "self" aside in order to assume the persona of a character played. Such display as this latest from WELS is soul destroying in more than one way.

When some of us who were opposing the Human Potential exercises being imposed on classrooms in public schools years ago, one exercise to make profanity and profane ideas acceptable and common place, was for the teacher (facilitator) to encourage students to shout out every "forbidden" word and phrase they could think of.

The teacher (facilitator) would write the words and phrases on the blackboard, then everyone in attendance was instructed to repeat all the words and phrases until saying the words and phrases was no longer uncomfortable. Dramatization such as demonstrated in the sex ed youtube will be just as effective to break down any Biblical moral restraints remaining in WELS..

My name appears on articles, letters to the editor etc., on a regular basis with unpopular and politically incorrect ideas, and if slings and arrows come, unless it is for a "fact" correction, I consider such as having succeeded in touching a nerve. When one is identified with one's own words, and when one's writing is proven to be correct, it is easier to say, "I told you so".

Mary Thompson

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samuelthrace has left a new comment on your post "SIECUS Could Not Have Done It Better Than The SORE...":

I can't recall a bigger load of psychological claptrap in my life! So does this mean that no one should play Macbeth on stage for fear of becoming a murderous pretender to the Scottish throne?

***

GJ - OpenID - no profile. That is curious because WELS uses a role playing model to mold their sausages at The Sausage Factory. This secret initiation rite, called GA, is still being held in secret for the chosen few. The heart of GA is indeed role playing. The upperclassmen play one side or the other. The Softs or Pietists pretend to help the incoming students. The Hards aggressively persecute the students. The big climax is when the newcomers run through the doors, frightened of the Hards pursuing them. A big beer party awaits on the other side. Deception is theme, and WELS clergy forever play that game. Of course, GA is a big secret. No one can tell anyone. If someone begins GA knowing about the deception, he really gets it.

Role-playing is used to make the students fit in. Various other methods make sure all the students graduate just the same - like sausages; hence the ELS nickname for Mequon - The Sausage Factory.

I would hesitate to say no other clergy are two-faced, but WELS pastors do their sect proud in their double-talk. If the WELS pastor is taking a sympathetic approach with a layman, he is just as likely to switch sides when it really matters.

---

Rev. Fr. Spencer has left a new comment on your post "SIECUS Could Not Have Done It Better Than The SORE...":

The current cesspit of the WELS is the Core in the city of Green Bay. Lest someone think this too harsh or unbrotherly, remember that a sewer is simply "a collection system that transports only the liquid portion of wastewater through small-diameter pipes laid at contour," while a cesspit or cesspool is "a pit, conservancy tank, or covered cistern, which can be used for sewage or refuse." [Thanks Wikipedia!] Thus, the Fox River may be termed the sewer of the WELS, transporting religious excrement, theological waste, and spiritual fecal matter downhill toward the Core located in Green Bay, which then becomes the collection point for such waste. An apt description of the situation, no? I think yes. But that's just my own personal opinion.

The Gadfly

Kelming Luther Will Lead To a Sermon Being Kelmed

Today's sermon reflected Luther's on the same text.

b.r. has left a new comment on your post "The Thirteenth Sunday after Trinity":

Fake Ichabod comments that your sermons contain only law. Apparently they have read them with their eyes closed.

Many are ashamed of the pastors/leaders in the WELS for their mean-spirited attacks.

You, on the other hand, with your spirited writing are pretty much right on, and many WELS members agree.

As for your sermon this week, it was one of the best explanations of the Good Samaritan I have heard and seen. I plan on Kelming it and using it in my classroom. The Lord is truly using you to begin our reform. Thank you!

A WELS teacher.

***

GJ - I appreciate the kind comments about the sermon. If you look up Luther's on the same text, you will see that I kelmed his exegesis. I did not have the sermon open at the time, but I remembered Luther's treatment as being so compelling that I had to follow his basics. As someone else has said, if the Shrinkers are so keen on copying - why not copy Luther? The old Lenker series is in the public domain.

Fake Ichabod is from Appleton and is most likely Tim Glende. He manufactures a few comments from a small collection of friends. Pastor Lillo knows who it is because the fraud said he would apologize to Lillo when I suggested the blogger could be Lillo.

The fake is always furious when I deal with Glende/Ski false doctrine. He defends UOJ ineptly and claims the unionist Valleskey is a confessional Lutheran.

The fake blogger has never posted a sermon or anything edifying. As "Anonymouse," his favorite name for posting comments to this blog, he posted photos that reveal a warped and twisted mind. Not content to attack me anonymously, he added the names of active WELS and ex-WELS members. He ordered those same people he insulted by name to stop listening to him.

What do we know about the fake blogger? Let's do a psychological profile.
1. He is from Appleton. He lit up the Appleton light on Feedjit when sending a comment. Once I had fun with that fact, he stopped sending comments to this blog. The same thing happened with the person from Garland, Texas, the hometown of Patterson. The comments stopped when I identified their origin.
2. The faker is a coward, because he continues to post anonymously, just as he commented anonymously. The more he says, the more he gives himself away.
3. He is a bully. He and his little band of knot-heads clearly need to gang up together and boss people around. I saw the same behavior in Columbus, Ohio, where Glende failed to grow up. Like many WELS pastors, he continues to act like a freshman football player, posing with celebrity ho's starlets and posting those photos to his Facebook home page. Most pastors would pose with their wives. Not Glende and Ski. They want everyone to see them looking like calves led to the slaughter. Proverbs 7:22.
4. He is a copycat, like all the Church and Money Changers. He has copied the name of this blog to trick people into reading his disturbed posts, yet he calls himself "The Real Ichabod." But he advocates using a blocking software to keep my posts from registering on Google searches.
5. My study at Yale and Notre Dame before I joined WELS seems to drive the fake blogger wild, but his Uncle Brug studied at Yale.
6. I actually joined WELS, but Tim Glende was a non-member of WELS most of his way through school. His home congregation of St. Paul in German Village sponsored Floyd Luther Stolzenburg to spread Church Growth all over Columbus and the Michigan District. Tim's congregation practiced open communion, women's suffrage, Masonic Lodge membership, and even had their own Scout troop. Nitz and Schumann had a woman leading a Bible study, etc. The fake blogger seems to have a tender conscience due to his checkered past.
7. There is no mistaking the ugliness of the fake blog. It is all too familiar as the WELS management system, a style of abuse people will no longer accept. Thank you, Tim, for making public what most people would not believe about a small, closely related sect. Let us see your magnificent sermons, Tim. Let us see one edifying essay about the Book of Concord, the Confessions, sound Lutheran doctrine.