GJ: The ALPB publishes the Lutheran Forum Letter, once edited by Richard Neuhaus, once LCMS, now a Roman Catholic priest. He was followed by another Lutheran pastor who is now a priest. Yes, they call themselves confessional Lutherans, just like WELS. OK, stop laughing now. The Holy Communion service discussed below was held at the ELCA convention in Chicago, but it was an alternative service for the hippest of the hip, the Lavender Mafia and its supporters.
Note this link:
http://www.goodsoil.org/pg.php?page=wednesday_leaflet
Holy Mother Synods LCMS-WELS-ELS say they are not in fellowship with ELCA, but their hymnal are modeled after and copy vast amounts of ELCA's LBW. The ELS Hymnal is the least obnoxious, but still copies ELCA. Why?
The hip liturgies of today are the standards of tomorrow, so read and beware.
:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
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ELCA Churchwide Assembly 2007 (Moderator: peter_speckhard)
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Richard Johnson
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Create in me a clean heart, O God.
That Goodsoil Eucharist
« on: August 09, 2007, 12:11:24 PM »
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That Goodsoil Eucharist.
I spoke to a couple of people who took it upon themselves to attend the Goodsoil Eucharist last night. There were perhaps 600 people present (most of whom, of course, are not voting members, though there were plenty of those, too, and they did spot at least bishops in addition to Presider Margaret Payne (those I heard mentioned were Peter Rogness and Murray Finck). Incidentally, I heard last night that Bp. Payne had shared with the Conference of Bishops a few months ago that she intended to do this. Some of them were not happy.)
The cover of the bulletin was “Anticipation of the Spirit’s Movement: A goodsoil Celebration of the Vigil of Pentecost.” They called it “waiting for the gift of the spirit to be poured out on flesh.” The service was “expansive in its use of language” (true enough) and “grounded in the historic liturgy of the Church” (less true).
The liturgy as it began was not so different from any ELW liturgy—plenty of inclusive language in prayers and hymns. The serious departure from “historic liturgy” came with the “creed”:
I believe in God, maker of an unfinished world, who calls us to participate in bringing about the fullness of Creation . . . who has not divided people into rich and poor, owners and slaves, nor pitted us against each other because of race, color, social class or sex. I believe in Jesus Christ who was ridiculed, tortured and executed for the sins of humankind. He has overthrown the rule of evil and injustice and continues to judge and redeem the hatred and arrogance of human beings. [Note nothing here about born or raised.] I believe in the Spirit of God whose flame comforts us with divine presence and causes our hearts to burn for righteousness and justice . . . I believe that God, through people, can bring peace and hope, justice and equality, the relief of suffering and pain, and the final triumph of love and grace. Wow.
The offering was to be tithed to the Chicago Night Ministry, another tithe to Greater Chicago Food Depository. The rest for the clergy defense fund and “activities at the 2009 ELCA Churchwide Assembly.”
The “Eucharistic Prayer” began: “God is with you. And also with you. Lift up your hearts. We lift them to the Holy One. Let us give thanks to the source of all things. It is right to give our thanks and praise.”
The real eye-popper was the “Lord’s Prayer”:
Eternal Spirit, Earth-Maker, Pain-bearer, Life-giver, source of all that is and that shall be, Father and Mother of us all. Loving God, in whom is heaven. The hallowing of your name echoes through the universe! The way of your justice be followed by the peoples of the earth! Your heavenly will be done by all created beings! Your commonwealth of peace and freedom sustain our hope and come on earth. With the bread we need for today, feed us. In the hurts we absorb from one another, forgive us. In times of temptation and test, spare us. From the grip of all that is evil, free us. For you reign in the glory of the power that is love, now and forever.
Well, as one of my contacts said (and with a good bit of emotion), “I felt like a stranger in a foreign land.” This person also said that when this prayer was read, a couple of them prayed the actual Lord’s Prayer. (“If it was good enough for Jesus . . .”)
One interesting comment I heard: “This is just enthusiasm, with a layer of post-modernism.” Sounded about right to me.
Another comment: “For a service billed as ‘inclusive,’ it was terrible ‘exclusive’; lots of comments and jokes that were really ‘in crowd’ comments that an outsider would not understand.” Another: “I felt like I was back in the ‘60’s; it was all ‘social justice.’”
And so it seemed, at least to my informants . . .
(Incidentally, the complaint about something being "passed out" illicitly was apparently about a card inviting people to several Goodsoil events.)
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Richard Johnson
Charles_Austin
ALPB Contribution Leader
Posts: 1553
Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2007, 12:17:21 PM »
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I heard part of the Goodsoil liturgy. (I was too worn out to stay for the whole thing.) I did spot four ELCA bishops in addition to Bishop Payne. I didn't care for some of the language, but I took some of the formulations to be considered "alternatives" and not replacements for the creed and the Our Father. Yes, it was in some sense an "in group" service, sort of like a congregational anniversary, or another worship for a special occasion of a special group. But there was word - scripture - and sacrament, and a type of community very evident among the participants.
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Charles Austin
Retired pastor, serving an interim, freelance writer
Javen
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Posts: 7
Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2007, 12:37:20 PM »
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That "eye-popping" Lord's Prayer is straight from the New Zealand Prayer Book (from the Anglican Church) that combines "the traditional prayers and forms of worship of the Anglican Church of New Zealand with the rich earth-based spirituality of the Maori and other Pacific Island cultures.... The richness and diversity of its forms, the simplicity of its language, and its concern for the hundreds of years of worship practices of the Anglican Church combine in a Prayer Book for the Twenty-first Century." I know you have to be a fruit loop (and wildly unorthodox) to like that kind of thing, but I've found it to be a wonderful worship resource.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/006060199X/churcofoursavios
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legaleagle
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Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2007, 12:57:52 PM »
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It is stuff like this that hinders Ecumenism with orthodox churches and will keep the ELCA and LCMS apart for many years to come. It is truly sad.
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Tom Shelley
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Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2007, 01:52:37 PM »
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Quote from: legaleagle on August 09, 2007, 12:57:52 PM
It is stuff like this that hinders Ecumenism with orthodox churches and will keep the ELCA and LCMS apart for many years to come. It is truly sad.
It is stuff like this that causes me to quote the phrase used by Mercersburg theologian John Williamson Nevin against the 19th century Lutheran proponents of the "new measures": "Why, then, do you call yourself Lutheran?"
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Charles_Austin
ALPB Contribution Leader
Posts: 1553
Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2007, 01:58:18 PM »
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Someone writes:
t is stuff like this that hinders Ecumenism with orthodox churches and will keep the ELCA and LCMS apart for many years to come. It is truly sad.
I comment:
But it is only "sad" if one thinks there is real possibility for full relations between the ELCA and the LC-MS. If one is looking elsewhere for further cooperation in mission, then it is not "sad."
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Charles Austin
Retired pastor, serving an interim, freelance writer
Pilgrim
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Posts: 35
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2007, 02:02:17 PM »
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Charles Austin comments:
But it is only "sad" if one thinks there is real possibility for full relations between the ELCA and the LC-MS. If one is looking elsewhere for further cooperation in mission, then it is not "sad."
Tim Christ reflects in response: No, it is indeed sad if one is not looking ALSO at the relationship of the two significant Lutheran bodies in the US at one and the same time, but rather is looking elsewhere, in effect, sending the message of having "given up" on our closest theological relation.
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Pr. Tim Christ
Pr. Jerry
ALPB Forum Member
Posts: 64
Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2007, 02:07:39 PM »
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Quote from: Richard Johnson on August 09, 2007, 12:11:24 PM
The real eye-popper was the “Lord’s Prayer”: Eternal Spirit, Earth-Maker, Pain-bearer, Life-giver, source of all that is and that shall be, Father and Mother of us all. Loving God, in whom is heaven. The hallowing of your name echoes through the universe! The way of your justice be followed by the peoples of the earth! Your heavenly will be done by all created beings! Your commonwealth of peace and freedom sustain our hope and come on earth. With the bread we need for today, feed us. In the hurts we absorb from one another, forgive us. In times of temptation and test, spare us. From the grip of all that is evil, free us. For you reign in the glory of the power that is love, now and forever.
This prayer comes from the "New Zealand Prayerbook" from the Anglican Church of New Zealand (I beg pardon if I got the official title wrong...). It is not sanctioned for the Episcopal Church USA, though I had to endure the entire "Evening Prayer" at a (L)utheran (A)nglican (R)oman (C)atholic retreat a couple of years ago in West Virginia. It is heretical in a number of ways: polytheistic, animistic, and modalistic to name a few...
I refused to say any of it.
Pax Christi;
Pr. Jerry Kliner, STS
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Pr. Jerry Kliner
Cross of Grace Lutheran Church, Hurricane, WV
"Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ." (St. Jerome, Translator)
Irl Gladfelter
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Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2007, 02:11:21 PM »
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Quote from: Javen on August 09, 2007, 12:37:20 PM
That "eye-popping" Lord's Prayer is straight from the New Zealand Prayer Book (from the Anglican Church) that combines "the traditional prayers and forms of worship of the Anglican Church of New Zealand with the rich earth-based spirituality of the Maori and other Pacific Island cultures....
"Earth-based spirituality" from liberal Anglicans . . . Of course . . . That makes perfect sense . . . (sigh)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2007, 02:13:13 PM by Irl Gladfelter » Logged
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Sc ott Yaki mow
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Kalimat Allah satuthbit ila al-Akhir (i.e., VDMA)
Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2007, 02:22:45 PM »
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Quote from: Javen on August 09, 2007, 12:37:20 PM
That "eye-popping" Lord's Prayer is straight from the New Zealand Prayer Book (from the Anglican Church) that combines "the traditional prayers and forms of worship of the Anglican Church of New Zealand with the rich earth-based spirituality of the Maori and other Pacific Island cultures...
Interesting mode of defense. It's OK because it corresponds to animistic beliefs?
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Dhikr Allah huwa akthar min ayy shay fiy khayyah
Charles_Austin
ALPB Contribution Leader
Posts: 1553
Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2007, 02:31:58 PM »
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Pilgrim comments:
sending the message of having "given up" on our closest theological relation.
I ponder:
One might ask whether the LC-MS is indeed our "closest theological relation." Think: approach to scripture and tradition, ordination for women, sacramental practices, type of theological education, ecumenical relations, church structure and polity, stances on social issues such as abortion, the death penalty and war, usw. And one could ask just how "close" we are to the LC-MS.
To say again: I favor full communion with the LC-MS, right now, and I wouldn't ask them to change any of their policies in order to be in full communion with them.
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Charles Austin
Retired pastor, serving an interim, freelance writer
Irl Gladfelter
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Posts: 1076
+ Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam +
Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2007, 02:40:51 PM »
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Quote from: Scott._.Yaki mow on August 09, 2007, 02:22:45 PM
Quote from: Javen on August 09, 2007, 12:37:20 PM
That "eye-popping" Lord's Prayer is straight from the New Zealand Prayer Book (from the Anglican Church) that combines "the traditional prayers and forms of worship of the Anglican Church of New Zealand with the rich earth-based spirituality of the Maori and other Pacific Island cultures...
Interesting mode of defense. It's OK because it corresponds to animistic beliefs?
I am tempted to point out that the U. S. Anglicans (TEC) has also in recent years had some who have experimented with "rich erth-based spirituality" - priests who were also Druids, neo-paganism with that "goddess liturgy" with offering of raisin cakes their women's ministries unit came up with a couple of years or so ago, so why should this be suprising. . .
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Vern
ALPB Forum Member
Posts: 73
Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2007, 02:48:12 PM »
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Now then, does anyone wish to ask Why We Need Word Alone?
Vern
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Richard Johnson
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Posts: 1532
Create in me a clean heart, O God.
Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2007, 02:50:08 PM »
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Quote from: Vern on August 09, 2007, 02:48:12 PM
Now then, does anyone wish to ask Why We Need Word Alone?
Vern
You don't need to be a Word Alone sympathizer to be grieved by that liturgy. Many of us who would in no way be described as Word Alone partisans (though often some of our best friends are) still believe it was really awful.
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Richard Johnson
Sc ott Yaki mow
ALPB Contribution Leader
Posts: 1193
Kalimat Allah satuthbit ila al-Akhir (i.e., VDMA)
Re: That Goodsoil Eucharist
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2007, 02:58:26 PM »
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Are people seeing the fact that this service was presided over by a sitting Bishop as being in any way a schismatic act or not?
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