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WELS Pastor Attacked (Not By Name) During Church and Change Sermon

Charis Spawned Church and Change (WELS)
From Bailing Water

Monday, October 22, 2007

The Church and Change group is not divisive – Dr. Mark Braun


In his closing sermon at the Church and Change conference Dr. Mark Braun jokes about Rev. Mark Bartling’s understanding of the Church and Change group.

Church and Change
(if this link doesn't work go the churchandchange site and follow the audio link to the sermon)

In his sermon, Dr. Braun says that he recognizes that over the last decade groups in the WELS have become polarized. He even says that “Birds of a feather flock together” (there you go again..oh those Magpies). He further says that these organized groups could be called an ecclesiastical version of political action groups.

Rev. Braun then quotes Rev. Mark Bartling’s article from the Christian News in which Rev. Bartling said “we now have an official group in the WELS entitled Church and Change. The name itself should tell you something is wrong here.”

Dr. Braun pauses in his sermon and the Church and Change congregation erupts in laughter (at the expense of a nameless WELS pastor)

Dr. Braun goes on with his sermon and says he would like to ask this (nameless) pastor (who we know as the Rev. Bartling), “what is wrong here? Is it that we can’t put church and change in the same sentence? or the same title? Is it that if it is the church it can not change and if there is change it better not be in the church!?”

I wonder why he didn’t ask Rev. Bartling these questions directly instead of in a Conference sermon…hmmm.

Dr. Braun’s sermon goes on to emphasis the changeless Gospel in a changing church. I would invite you to listen to this quote and the entire sermon in context and post your responses.


Comments on Bailing Water

RandomDan said...
Has Church and Change even made it into the late 90s? That audio file is huge. Do these people not know how to use mp3's?

October 22, 2007 6:14 PM


Anonymous said...
randomdan brings up a really interesting point. The Church and Changers see themselves as cutting-edge innovators within the WELS, but compared to the church and the world at large, they're really far, far behind the times. The audio file is an example of this. They think they're making their churches seem cutting edge and innovative, but when a visitor compares the WELS praise band to the megachurch praise band or the WELS PowerPoint to the PowerPoint they saw last week at work, the WELS church seems cheesy and behind the times. Let's be honest, praise bands and PowerPoint aren't the strong points of the Lutheran church. Why not focus on what are our strong points--the liturgy and Scriptural doctrine? Those are the things that we can do excellently. Those are the things that can set us apart from the Evangelical churches. And yet those are the very things that C&C seek to eliminate.

October 22, 2007 6:37 PM


Anonymous said...
Here's my reaction to the sermon:

It sounded more like a defense for the existence of C&C than a sermon proclaiming law and gospel.

There wasn't really any law. Instead of calling the congregation to repentance for the times when they have lost confidence in the power of the gospel, he sought to justify their opinion that we can make the gospel more effective.

There wasn't really any gospel. He talked a lot about the gospel, but never actually proclaimed the gospel itself. He spent more time talking about old TV characters than Christ.

The sermon was filled with little jabs at those silly, unenlightened WELS pastors and people who aren't a part of their special little group. The condescending laughter after each jab revealed exactly how C&C people view the rest of us poor WELS people. (The laughter of the Pietistic cell groups in Spener's day toward the rest of the Lutheran church probably sounded quite similar.)

In short, it was a propaganda piece, not a proclamation of law and gospel.

October 22, 2007 7:03 PM


Anonymous said...
I just wanted to agree with the person who mentioned that compared to "evangelical" Christianity...our "efforts" at praise bands and what not is pretty laughable.

Plus, they can't so any live streaming nor do they seem to be able to condense their audio files....so odd.

I hate when things get nasty--snarky and "tit for tat"...it's all very high schoolish. It is really saddening to hear it being utilized in a sermon...revolting.

Thanks for the link. I'm off to listen to the "sermon" (is that truly what it was?).

October 22, 2007 7:52 PM


rlschultz said...
The WELS is always a day late and a dollar short in jumping on the latest fads. Yes, the sermon is a .wav file instead of the compressed, .mpg file. Most teenagers who are computer savvy know that .wav files are too big, even with broadband access. That was a really cheap shot by Dr. Braun against Rev. Bartling. Furthermore, if the tables were turned, Rev. Bartling would be getting flogged with the "8 & 18 switch" (8th commandment & Matthew Chapter 18) by not approaching the offender on an individual basis. Even though, neither admonition applies when the sin is public.

October 22, 2007 9:35 PM


A WELS Pastor said...
I don't know if Pastor Bartling is still in the active ministry or not. But he needs to pursue this through his DP and Synod President if need be.

October 22, 2007 9:51 PM


Anonymous said...
Never in my life have I ever heard one WELS pastor use another as the object of ridicule in a sermon to get some cheap laughs. That's what those of us in the WELS who are still confessional are to the C&Cers--a joke.

How disgusting.

October 22, 2007 10:06 PM

***

GJ - Bailing Water gets a lot of comments. This set did not include any from synod minders, who guard the image of Holy Mother WELS by attacking anyone who doubts the immaculate conception of the Wisconsin sect. For instance, one poster bullied Bailing Water about the truth of Church and Change removing their fraudulent link because of SP Schroder's insistence. Surely Bailing Water must be lying! But no, Bailing Water spoke to Schroeder about the problem. Isn't that the rule?

Being flogged in a sermon is not new to me. I have experienced it in the LCA and in WELS. My friend was at a WELS conference where I was denounced by name by a WELS VP. My friend said to him, "Too bad Greg wasn't here to defend himself." The WELS VP had to leave the ministry, for cause. And I liked the guy.

Kuske and Valleskey made a point of denouncing me for opposing Church Growth. The Church Growth pastors took their swipes, even when guests in my pulpit in the WELS. Satan's disciples are uncouth, but tolerated. Thus God smites people who tolerate falsehood, according to Luther.

Pastors and laity must get used to this approach by apostates. The dogs howl when they feel the pain, but they bite a lot, too. In the long run we will be dead and answering our Savior for what we taught.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastor Attacked (Not By Name) During Church a...":

And what about the swipes you take at people, twisting the truth about them, telling untruths and even outright lies? You criticize others, but yet you do the same thing, and even worse. Didn't Jesus say something about a sliver and a plank?

GJ - Oh yes, another string of unwarranted accusations from Rev. Mouse. I suppose he got another day pass from the high-security facility where they are treating him. (Just kidding, Mouse.) No other Lutheran blog has so much raw information, verbatim quotations with the sources, and quotations from interesting blogs. I do not see a micron of evidence for the charges made--anonymously--above. Rev. Mouse, aren't you supposed to go to me and tell me face-to-face about my many sins, to rescue me from Hell, as Paul Kelm tried to do?

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastor Attacked (Not By Name) During Church a...":

I have a better name for this group who feels they've discovered a better way to recruit new members. Instead of 'Church and Change', let's call it what it is.... A CHANGED CHURCH. Folks, it's the Word of God, pure and simple. You shouldn't have to fancy it up and package it into the catagory of entertainment. It is what it is. If these people want to change it, let them split off and start their own reformed Lutheran churches. But quit trying to change our liturgical and traditional worship services. The two do not mix. I refuse to buy a ticket for their show.

Holy Trinity Society Follows Thrivent in Uniting All Lutherans

I got this from reading LutherQuest (sic), I confess.

Holy Trinity Society

Taken from that link the following:

"Members of the Society are ordained ministers who hold public office in churches that are not in communion with one another. Yet we drafted and subscribed to a Rule that commits us to celebrating the Lord’s Supper together precisely because ministers of the Word and the Sacraments also need to be fed with the Word and the Sacrament."

The communion service at Concordia, Ft. Wayne, featured LCMS, ELCA, and supposedly one WELS pastor. ELCA women pastors participated, but WELS says there is nothing in the Bible against ordaining women (Brug, Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly).

LCMS SP Kieschnick communes with ELCA, too. The seminary president will get a severe post card and a case of beer for this slip.

When the Insurance Companies Stopped Ratting Out the Synods

Mrs. Ichabod and I used to do joint research at Lutheran libraries. Two convenient sources for union activities between WELS and ELCA were the insurance magazines. AAL bragged about what they funded, and Lutheran Brotherhood bragged about what they did. AAL did not want to plan three separate events, apparently, so they got their money's worth with the four-letter synods (ELCA-WELS-LCMS) working together.

One can only guess how much insurance money was funneled into Fuller Seminary trips and tuition, seminars at Willow Creek, and other such nonsense. Listen to the ELCA-WELS-LCMS leaders now - they all sound the same.

I routinely reported these activities, mostly in Christian News. I spoke to people, wrote to people, xeroxed people. One effect was that our principal sources dried up. Even today I look over the Thrivent (AAL/LB) magazine for news of joint programs.

I supposed I could get news from ELCA annual reports, but they are more interested in themselves. Everything is now out in the open anyway.

Just in case anyone thinks the Little Sect on the Prairie is innocent - the ELS has always defended false doctrine in WELS. Coffee hour crabbing is allowed, especially since it makes the clergy feel superior to WELS, but nothing can be said in public. The ELS pursues the main points of spin-doctoring:
1. It did not happen.
2. Who told you?
3. Attack the source, especially when the source is reliable.
4. Administering the Left Foot of Fellowship.

Pretty in Pink: Pauk Kelm, WLC, Church Growth

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Paul Kelm's Topics and Readings at WLC":

My wife took this class from Kelm. She said he wore pink pants to class and gave you a bad grade if you even suggested that Church Growth methodologies indicated a lack of confidence in the Holy Spirit.

GJ - But Kelm is tough on doctrinal discipline. Here is a letter he wrote me about WELS being involved in religious radio production with ELCA:

Your September 21 article in Christian News perpetuates a lie, slanders leaders of your church and risks spiritual offense to weak brothers and sisters. You describe a conference on leadership in which fellowship lines were clearly drawn and at which testimony to the truths which separate Lutherans was publicly given as 'a joint ministry conference with a liberal agenda.' Then you add, 'Months later, the three groups [ELCA, LCMS, WELS] joyfully announced a joint religious radio show, Joy, also funded by Lutheran insurance money. WELS participated in 'Joy' from the beginning and continues to be a part of the project.'
Pastor Paul Kelm (WELS), Letter to Gregory L. Jackson, 9-23-92.

The mistaken announcement by a reporter from another Lutheran body was clearly repudiated in the March 15, 1992 issues of The Northwestern Lutheran. Yet you boldly state that the WELS continues to be a part of this project, in which it never participated. Dr. Jackson, I ask you to repent of your slanderous lie and retract it publicly. Galatians 6:1-2 leads me to ask this of you, for the sake of your spiritual life. Titus 3:10 urges me to ask this of you for the sake of the church. cc: District President Robert Mueller, Vice President Paul Kuske, Vice President Gerald Schroer, Rev. David Grundmeier, Rev. Gary Baumler.
Pastor Paul Kelm (WELS), Letter to Gregory L. Jackson, 9-23-92.

GJ - Yes, The Northwestern Lutheran helped deceive WELS about the Joy Radio Show, but I did what WELS leaders always urge. I phoned the man in charge, an ELCA pastor. He was astonished that WELS was calling him a liar for the PR announcement. His secretary even gasped, "Barber (WELS) was at all the meetings." The WELS spin was that they were so full of talent that ELCA needed them as consultants only. It was not a joint-ministry with ELCA-WELS-LCMS, as ELCA correctly stated. Snowbird was joint leadership, with a photo of Miscke with the ELCA bishop and Bohlmann. The Church Membership Initiative was joint evangelism among ELCA-WELS-LCMS. Now all this work is bearing fruit, the weed seeds of false doctrine. Now, thanks to Church and Change, Leonard Sweet, Reggie McNeal, and others, Kelm's decisive leadership in promoting false doctrine has been proven prophetic (in a sense). Comatose WELS pastors and laity are now starting to say, "Huh?"

***

Read and Weep Department

"TELL has served the church faithfully for 15 years. Three editors have served; Ronald Roth (1977-84), Paul Kelm (1985-88), and the undersigned since 1989...The lead article in the first issue of TELL was titled 'Church Growth - Worthwhile for WELS.'...The author of this article in April 1988 issue of TELL concludes, 'It's obvious by now that I believe we in WELS can profit greatly from the writings of the church-growth leaders.' ... TELL as a separate publication ends with this issue. Nevertheless, the focus of The Evangelism Life Line will continue for years to come as an integral part of the new Board for Parish Services journal - PARISH LEADERSHIP.
Rev. Robert Hartman TELL (WELS Evangelism) Summer, 1992.

"The Network of WELS Small Group Leaders. 1. Information on active/interested small group leaders. 2. The Resource Sharing Network led by Divine Savior in Indianapolis, Indiana [Pastor Dan Kelm]." WELS Campus Pastors, Small Group Training Conference, Jan. 7-9, 1991, Madison. p. 19. Finding the Receptive: People in Transition, by James Witt - "The Bible illustrates the people-in-transition receptivity principle very well. Converts such as Naaman, a leper; Ruth, a widow; the woman at the well, a five-time divorcee; the thief on the cross, a convict near death; were all people who in a period of transition were receptive to hearing the Gospel. The Receptivity-Rating Scale shown at left... Paul Kelm, editor, The Evangelism Handbook, WELS Evangelism Appendix III,

"MOTIVATING AND ORGANIZING THE CONGREGATION AROUND THE GREAT COMMISSION" [This is the Donald Abdon view of relating all church structures to evangelism, as noted in Valleskey's PT notes.]
Paul Kelm, editor, The Evangelism Handbook, WELS Evangelism

"Don't let the world paint us into a corner of antiquarianism on subjects like a six-day creation or verbal inspiration."
Rev. Paul Kelm, "How to Make Sound Doctrine Sound Good to Mission Prospects," p. 13.


"Thesis Seven: Sound Apologetics Can Make Sound Doctrine Sound Good...Logic never converted anyone; but Christianity is logically defensible, once one makes reason ministerial to God and His Word...Read C.S. Lewis, Francis Schaeffer and Josh McDowell for practical apologetic tools. In fact, lend your copy to the prospect whose intelligence and education have become his curse. Once you've read Josh McDowell's 'Lord, Liar, or Lunatic' argument for the deity of Christ, you'll find yourself using it."
Paul Kelm


Rev. Paul Kelm, "How to Make Sound Doctrine Sound Good to Mission Prospects," p. 14. "PLANNING, long-range or short-range, should be S-M-A-R-T ..specific...measurable...accepted...realistic...timed...." Paul Kelm, editor, The Evangelism Handbook, WELS Evangelism p. 3.

"A last word on sound doctrine is in place. Sound doctrine must be distinguished from tradition, praxis and preference. The liturgy, translation of the Bible, vestments and organizational policies of the church are not equatable with sound doctrine."
Rev. Paul Kelm, "How to Make Sound Doctrine Sound Good to Mission Prospects," p. 3.

"Doctrines in controversy and applications to those doctrines are a disciple's meat. They are swallowed only after patient doses of discipling milk. The art of mission work is to preserve that sequence despite a prospect's desire to chew what he can't swallow."
Rev. Paul Kelm, "How to Make Sound Doctrine Sound Good to Mission Prospects," p. 3.

"Non-Christians usually become good prospects for personal reasons or as I like to say: 'They come for sociological reasons and stay for theological reasons.'" [Note: this is the felt needs approach of Fuller, also endorsed by Pastor Forrest Bivens, now a professor at Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary: "I went to Fuller Seminary and I happen to believe we can use sociological methods to bring people to church so we can apply the Means of Grace." Midland circuit get together, attended by Pastor - now DP - John Seifert.]
Rev. Paul Kelm, "How to Make Sound Doctrine Sound Good to Mission Prospects," p. 4.

"Thesis One: Sound Doctrine Sounds Good When Good People Sound it. Normally, people respond to other people before they respond to doctrine."
Rev. Paul Kelm, "How to Make Sound Doctrine Sound Good to Mission Prospects," p. 7.

WELS Mission Counselors' NEWSLETTER, April, 1992: authors are - James Woodworth, Disciples of Christ; "Net Results," March, 1991; Roger K. Guy, Disciples of Christ; Arnell P. C. Arn, American Baptist Church; Jane Easter Bahls, Presbyterian; C. Jeff Woods, freelance writer and minister; Lyle Schaller, United Methodist; Pastor Paul Kelm; Pastor Jim Mumm, WELS; Pastor Peter Panitzke, WELS; Pastor Randall Cutter and Mark Freier, WELS; First Congretional Church, Winchester, MA."
Pastor Jim Radloff, editor, WELS Mission Counselors' NEWSLETTER, April, '92, 2929 Mayfair Road Milwaukee, WI 53222

"Small churches need not be small thinkers, but small-thinking churches will always remain small. Churches and people seldom go/grow beyond their expectations."
Rev. Paul Kelm, "How to Make Sound Doctrine Sound Good to Mission Prospects," See Waldo Werning and Robert Schuller for the same thought. Did the Apostles know this? p. 6.

"Small thinking churches typically budget to remain small."
Rev. Paul Kelm, "How to Make Sound Doctrine Sound Good to Mission Prospects," See Waldo Werning and Robert Schuller for the same thought. Did the Apostles know this? p. 7.

"Evangelism upside-down is starting with the subjective issues of perceived reality and working back to God's objective truths of ultimate reality - sin and grace. It's offering the attendant blessings of salvation as the 'hook' to gain an audience for God's plan of salvation." [felt needs used to sell the Gospel]
Paul Kelm The Evangelism Life Line (WELS), Fall, 1985 p. 4.

"Upside-down evangelism may begin with different diagnostic questions. What do you want out of life? lets the other person pick the path for witness. How do you feel about where our society is heading? uncovers fears and needs without becoming too personal. What makes people happy (or unhappy) do you think? allows someone to express preceived [sic] needs in the third person."
Paul Kelm The Evangelism Life Line (WELS), Fall, 1985 p. 5.

"Upside-down evangelism doesn't begin with personal sin and guilt, but rather with the consequences of sin. Societal consequences (for which each day's newspaper provides evidence) are the 'perceived need' door to understanding the alienation of life and people from God."
Paul Kelm The Evangelism Life Line (WELS), Fall, 1985 p. 5.

"It's just easier for many people to work backwards from the subjective to the objective in their thinking. In fact, upside-down evangelism may start with gospel and work back to law, stating the solution as a prelude to the problem and clarifying both at the cross." [This is Moravian Pietism, as shown by Walther's Law and Gospel.]
Paul Kelm The Evangelism Life Line (WELS), Fall, 1985 p. 5.

"Upside-down evangelism follows the path of least resistance to the God of gracious acceptance."
Paul Kelm The Evangelism Life Line (WELS), Fall, 1985 p. 5.

"Lifestyle evangelism is the merger of visual and verbal witness, by the people Jesus intended, in the way that He modeled. It's the primary element in a church's strategy to win the lost." [Other endorsements from Rev. Burton Bundy, Church of the Lutheran Brethren, and Dr. Erwin Kolb, LCMS] Rev. Paul Kelm, Evangelism, WELS
Your Invitation! Kent Hunter, (D.Min., Fuller; S.T.D., LSTC) Church Growth Center, Corunna, Indiana 46730 Phone 219-281-2452 Invitation for Heart to Heart Workshop,

"When planning the service, Rev. Dan Kelm and the worship committee decided immediately that there wouldn't be any organ music and that the usual Lutheran liturgy wouldn't be used."
Carol Elrod, "Pastor Hopes Seeks Will Find Way to Special Church Service," Indianapolis Star, May 12, 1990 printed in CN

"The role model for this carefully choreographed and rehearsed service, referred to by Rev. Dan Kelm as a 'seeker service,' is Willow Creek Community Church in Barrington, Ill., near Chicago, an independent congregation formed 14 years ago...Rev. Kelm said he viewed a videotape of a service at the Chicago-area church before planning the first seeker service for Divine Savior, which is affiliated with the Milwaukee-based Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod."
Carol Elrod, "Pastor Hopes Seeks Will Find Way to Special Church Service," Indianapolis Star, May 12, 1990 Reprinted in CN

"Our synod now has a fulltime executive secretary for evangelism. He's the Rev. Paul Kelm; and we need him. We need him to be our evangelism advocate."
Rev. Ron Roth, The Evangelism Life Line (WELS), Winter, 1985 p. 2.

"Church growth theory suggests the need for seven fellowship groups for every 100 members."
Pastor Paul E. Kelm, The Evangelism Life Line (WELS), Winter, 1985, p. 4.

Spencer (WELS) Excited about Church and Change

SP Schroeder is no longer "excited about Church and Change," which was falsely reported on the Church and Change website. However, the official WELS website still has a 2004 article, by Church Growth maven James Aderman, gushing about the conference.

Spencer Excited about C and C

“I can’t believe there are so many exciting things going on in WELS,” says Barry Spencer, a lay leader at Immanuel, Medford, Wis.

Spencer found out about these exciting things from Church and Change, a three-day conference in November when 180 WELS members—men and women, called workers and laity—came to share ministry ideas, encourage each other, and celebrate God’s grace through Word and sacrament. It was funded by a grant from WELS’ 150th anniversary thankoffering.

This was the fourth and final conference that was hosted in connection with the Board for Parish Services for WELS members who are carrying on innovative ministries. Its purpose? To encourage and enable WELS congregations and individuals to better serve their Savior.

Cheryl Nelson from St. John, Minneapolis, Minn., appreciated that encouragement. “Church and Change has given me ideas and tools to take back to my congregation,” she says.

Church and Change is more than a once-a-year conference. It’s a clearinghouse for workable ministry models. Its Web site, ChurchAndChange.org, lists descriptions of hundreds of innovative approaches to ministry along with contacts for more information. Ideas on the Web site range from renting storefronts for conducting teen ministry to having members act out sketches before the sermon to prepare people for the answers that God’s Word provides to offering a “ladies’ power hour” that combines Bible study with aerobics.

Idea sharing also happens year round on the organization’s e-mail listserve.

James Aderman


***

WELS Kingdom Workers Invited People to Attend Church and Change

YOU ARE INVITED

to attend the Church and Change Conference in Milwaukee, Wis., October 15-17, 2007. WELS members will conduct workshops focusing on five ministry areas: adult discipleship, women’s ministries, children and youth, outreach evangelism, and worship. All WELS members are encouraged to attend.Those who attend will gain a greater appreciation of the grace of God, and receive information about gospel ministries for use in their congregations. The goal of our conference is in keeping with a resolution passed at the WELS convention, which states: “be it resolved that we commit ourselves to expand mission efforts at home and throughout the world, using both traditional and innovative means of gospel outreach, as God provides the resources.”For more information about Church & Change and the conference, visit www.churchandchange.org.

WELS Kingdom Workers
414-771-6848 or 1-800-466-9357

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Spencer (WELS) Excited about Church and Change":

I wonder which of the Board of Apostates decided it would be good to tell everyone the convention made them do it...or the pres. is excited about it.

Misinformation. Deception. Twisting words. False teachers, anyone?

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Spencer (WELS) Excited about Church and Change":

Well, its official. I'll never consider helping or supporting WELS Kingdom Workers ever again.