Voting Fraud Is Common - In the Synods

Carl Mischke

WELS wanted to merge their little men's college, Northwestern in Watertown, into Dr. Martin Luther (teachers) College in New Ulm. They did the usual fake polling ahead of time, to boost the idea. When WELS dissenters gave me  the NWC faculty letter against merger, to be given to CN, I knew they had no guts to fight. The faculty remained in soft jobs because they were so docile.

The NWC alumni were "not allowed" to vote on the matter. Welcome to the Fourth Reich - it was clear where this merger was headed.

At the convention, the president of tiny NWC was not allowed to speak on the issue in the open discussion. Did any of the shepherds sheep object? No. 

So they voted and the merger lost by a narrow margin. The counters simply switched the results. Merger passed by a narrow margin. Vote fraud. Doubtless many knew it. No one ever questioned that fact, after I published the facts. 

MLC students are never subjected to Lutheran doctrine, and the hyped Evangelism Day speakers are now kept a closely guarded Church and Change secret. First) The list was publicized. Next) The secret list was intercepted by someone. Finally) No way the list will be ever be available or slipped to the wrong person.

Next came Gurgle, to follow Mischke as Synod President. Mischke was called a Berenstain Bear (behind his back). 

Gurgle was highly qualified to mishandle funds, and he was against the merger! He was the conservative salvation for the wacky Lefty Church Growth Calvinists like Kelm. 

As a DP, Gurgle took the MilCraft estate gift and soon the widow was suing WELS for losing all the promised benefits. WELS, for good cause, harshly criticized her for going to court and for winning the $1 million case. Paul Kuske said, "We have to be more careful about the gifts we accept." True - irrevocable charitable gift trusts dry up when widows lose the money from the synod mishandling the gift.

Gurgle was anti-merger until he was elected Synod President. Then he was for it 100%. That is one of those GA initiation lies. When Father Spencer called me in shock, I reminded him about the dangers of trusting men before the Gurgle election took place. Spencer moved on to endorse others equally duplicitous - Mirthless Mark Schroeder and Jon-boy Buchholz ("Have Gunn, Will Travel).

The districts separately had to vote on the convention's fraudulent vote - another chance to pull the wool over their ovine eyes. Gurgle solemnly promised, "If the cost goes over $8 million, we will pull the plug on merger."

WELS gets high on liars, lies, and being shocked at the latest lie. Those who question the lies are given the Stink-eye and the Left Foot of Fellowship, the Wisconsin sacraments.

Who told you? All he ever does is lie and exaggerate. We all agree on that.

The merger of colleges was a festival of lies, as expected. Two tracks would remain - one for teachers, one for future pastors. The D was removed and Martin Luther College became their fading "School of Ministry."

Merger cost perhaps $30 million - who knows. It is none of your business where your money goes. I understand the chapel fund evaporated, and the person who pointed out the problem was fired. Gurgle was offered a chance to enjoy government housing or tour the world. He took the free world tour.

The glorious reign of Mirthless Mark Schroeder began. As Father Spencer promised, he would restore the past and quench the WELS Skull and  Bones fraternity - called Church and Change. So many secrets, so many con-jobs. 

Schroeder frowned at Church and Changers a bit and made it a point to leverage Mark and Avoid Jeske, his crafts and assaults. 

From Tele-Tubbies to just plain tubbies.  Jeske's ELCA pro-abortion lady pastors teach LCMS and WELS about the ministry. It is over. Go home. WELS-ELS-LCMS merged with ELCA dogma (OJ) and practice (ahem) years ago. They pooled the Thrivent money and now share their insights from Fuller Seminary, Willow Creek, and their Father Below.

Will Matt Harrison, Paul McCain, Mark Schroeder, and Pope John the Malefactor Give Up Their Thrivent Loot and Deluxe ELCA Seminars for the Babies?

Those are not stars in his eyes, those are dollar signs.

Author	Message
Rev. Robert Fischer (Fischer) Intermediate Member Username: Fischer Post Number: 334 Registered: 12-2004	Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 4:23 pm:       LCMS issues statement about Thrivent Choice Dollars® The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod (LCMS) is deeply concerned by the news that Thrivent Financial has recognized Planned Parenthood of Minnesota, North Dakota and South Dakota as a potential recipient of funding through its Thrivent Choice Dollars grant program. The LCMS always has been, and will continue to be, clear and faithful in its proclamation of the sanctity of all human life from conception until natural death. We are currently in conversation with Thrivent Financial and pray for a God-pleasing resolution to this matter so that the pro-life witness of individual Lutherans and the LCMS will not be compromised. Maggie Karner, Director LCMS Life and Health Ministries Rev. Dr. Matthew C. Harrison, President The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod http://blogs.lcms.org/2013/lcms-issues-statement-a bout-thrivent-choice-dollars
Robert C. Baker (Robert_c_baker) Intermediate Member Username: Robert_c_baker Post Number: 402 Registered: 2-2012	Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 6:27 pm:       The IC is right in responding to this issue, especially given that it has incited a furor among some members of the LCMS. What happens with this will be nil, however. The LCMS benefits financially from the its relationship with Thrivent, and so any "conversation" that ensues will accomplish only two things: 1) Express the Synod's displeasure to Thrivent, which will be ignored by that organization; and 2) Appease the Administration's base of supporters. Again, nothing will come of this. Recall that although the Synod in 2010 mandated the removal of RSO's violating the Synod's doctrine and practice regarding homosexual adoption, the Harrison Administration, after over 3 years, still has not dealt with Lutheran Children and Family Services of Illinois, which has stated publicly, and on several occasions, that it will abide by Illinois state law by adopting children into homosexual contexts. Further, witness the multiple "conversations" (letters) going back and forth between the Administration and the Boy Scouts of America. The result was that the Synod caved, and now supports allowing self-identified gay scouts to be members in congregational troops. Witness further the 2013 Convention, in which the Adminstration orchestrated substituting a Michigan District resolution supporting a biblical understanding of marriage, for one specially crafted in the bowels of the IC, in which now the Synod will develop an RSO to minister to people with "same-sex attraction," which is euphemistic evangelispeak for gay. No, everything that is done is done to maintain the status quo, and to preserve the ever-smaller LCMS business empire, now in the hands of neo-Lutheran liturgiologists bent, quite literally, on world domination. It's all about relationships.TM
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4304 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 6:28 pm:       From "Synod issues statement on Thrivent, Planned Parenthood": "We are currently in conversation with Thrivent Financial and pray for a God-pleasing resolution to this matter so that the pro-life witness of individual Lutherans and the LCMS will not be compromised.” At this writing, Thrivent’s leaders, she [Karner] said, “are currently working on a solution that will consider all of the feedback that they have received from the LCMS and individual, concerned, pro-life Lutherans.” Hmmmmm... These statements sound suspiciously like previous statements here and here asking for patience while the LCMS meets with BSA and evaluates a response... before the LCMS completely caved to BSA and agreed to allow openly homosexual Scouts into LCMS church-sponsored troops. And these statements also sound suspiciously like previous statements here and here asking for patience while LCMS officials meet with and get an apology from a Newtown pastor for his participation in a syncretic prayer service... before the LCMS caved and apologized for even trying to stand up to such syncretism and unionism. So, don't hold your breath for a "Hier stehe, ich kann nicht anders" moment coming from the Purple Palace.
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4305 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Friday, December 20, 2013 - 11:43 am:       Excerpted from a LifeNews article, "Thrivent Would Facilitate Donations from Lutherans to Planned Parenthood" by Michael Schuermann: Thrivent is playing a dangerous game. They have created a charitable giving program that lacks any sort of rules limiting eligible organizations to those that are consistent with the word of God. At any time, Thrivent Choice dollars could easily end up in the hands of Planned Parenthood. It seems that Thrivent could change this quickly. The Terms & Conditions for organizationsparticipating in the Thrivent Choice program clearly state that “Thrivent Financial adopts Terms and Conditions as well as other Program Rules for Thrivent Choice at its sole discretion. Thrivent Financial may change, limit, modify, cancel or revoke Thrivent Choice and/or Terms and Conditions and/or other Program Rules at any time and for any reason, with or without notice…” In other words, Thrivent can make a rule eliminating the eligibility of organizations like Planned Parenthood. Likewise, the member’s direction to Thrivent to give Thrivent Choice dollars to a specific organization is only a direction – in other words, similar to advice. According to the Terms & Conditions for members, “Thrivent Financial retains total discretion as to whether or how all Choice Dollars are distributed. Any “direction” that I provide to Thrivent to designate recipients of Choice Dollars is a request and recommendation from me suggesting a recipient of Choice Dollars funding which Thrivent is under no legal obligation to approve or follow. The use of the term “direct,” “direction,” “choose,” “choice” or other terms in these Terms and Conditions or in any communications regarding Thrivent Choice, does not provide me with any authority to make any decision regarding the use of any funds.” So Thrivant's "Choice Dollars" program, which now includes murder-by-abortion providers, is exactly that - Thrivant's Choice. It remains to be seen whether, for the Harrison administration, there will be "a God-pleasing resolution to this matter so that the pro-life witness of individual Lutherans and the LCMS will not be compromised."
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4306 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Friday, December 20, 2013 - 2:14 pm:       From a December 20, 2013, Thrivent bulletin, "Members, Thrivent Take Action on Thrivent Choice® Issue": Thrivent Financial is a membership organization of Christians with more than two million members in more than 1,300 local chapters nationwide. While our membership holds diverse points of view on faith and social issues, we share a common purpose to be wise with money and live generously. We listen to concerns from all of our members, and we are listening now. As a grassroots organization, we are committed to honoring the desire of our members and local chapters to choose and support the non-profit organizations that are meaningful to them. We recognize that the eligibility of a Planned Parenthood affiliate, approved by one of our local chapters, has been controversial. After input, discussion and a review of the concerns from Thrivent members, the leadership of this local chapter voted Thursday to remove it from the Thrivent Choice program effective immediately. Given the deeply held views on this issue across our membership, we also are taking action to address the concerns of our membership. These steps include temporarily suspending all pro-choice and pro-life organizations from the Thrivent Choice program, placing a temporary hold on the addition and removal of nonprofit organizations from the program, and conducting a comprehensive program review. The Thrivent Choice program is highly valued by our members. More than 270,000 members have used it to direct some $47 million – 91% of it to Christian congregations, schools, camps/outdoor ministries, and social ministries. We will seek input from our members, chapter leaders and others in the communities we serve with the goal of designing and delivering a program that continues to support the priorities of our members and our common purpose. Thrivent members, if you would like to share your feedback, you may reach the Thrivent Choice® team using the Contact Form on this page. You may also write to: Thrivent Choice Program 4321 N Ballard Road Appleton, WI 54919  WHAT? Suspension of pro-murder-by-abortion organizations from the Thrivent Choice program is only temporary?! And Thrivent is also suspending Pro-life organizations?!? Maybe we better check to see if the Hitler Youth or NABLA groups are still on the Thrivent Choice program.
Rex Grissom (Rex) Advanced Member Username: Rex Post Number: 609 Registered: 12-2004	Posted on Friday, December 20, 2013 - 4:47 pm:       I guess that's what membership in a self described "Faith based organization" whose largest contingent comes from a synod that denies the resurrection and puts gay women in the pulpit, gets you. I concur with the prediction that Thrivent will "study" and Missouri will fold it's hands for a little sleep. Aaaaagain. Rex "Sorry guys, rabid sectarianism takes up a lot of my time."
Rev. Robert Fischer (Fischer) Intermediate Member Username: Fischer Post Number: 335 Registered: 12-2004	Posted on Friday, December 20, 2013 - 5:07 pm:       This is Synod's latest update on the Thrivent situation: LCMS Responds to Thrivent's Choice Dollars® Statement With the recent Thrivent announcement to reconsider their Choice Dollars® Program, the LCMS is encouraged to learn that Thrivent is beginning to recognize the serious concern its members have when their choice dollars are stewarded toward organizations such as Planned Parenthood that directly support the abortion industry and the killing of unborn children. "We are very happy that Thrivent was willing to reconsider this issue. However, the LCMS and every one of its entities and congregations are both pro-life and nonprofit, so we certainly hope that Thrivent will continue to support such pro-life, nonprofit organizations," said the Rev. Dr. Matthew C. Harrison, president of The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod. LCMS members are urged to express their concerns directly to Thrivent Financial during this time of re-evaluation of the Choice Dollars® Program.
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4307 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Friday, December 20, 2013 - 6:32 pm:       The December 20, 2013, LCMS announcement can be seen at "Thrivent removes Planned Parenthood from ‘Choice’ program." Also there is a link to a list of suspended organizations, showing 53 organizations suspended. The Hitler Youth group and NAMBLA are not listed as suspended, so one will have to check to see if these organizations are on the Thrivent Choice list of those politically correct organizations that survived the cut.
R.D. (Ryan11676) Intermediate Member Username: Ryan11676 Post Number: 378 Registered: 2-2006	Posted on Friday, December 20, 2013 - 8:13 pm:       Why doesnt lcms start it's own such organization? Call it Aid Association for Lutherans or something. Rex nailed it above. I'll go further. It's time to start yankin our portfolios from thrivent.
LaMarr Blecker (Carpedecum) Intermediate Member Username: Carpedecum Post Number: 468 Registered: 6-2005	Posted on Friday, December 20, 2013 - 8:22 pm:       LCMS statement = weasel words in view of Matt. 6:19-20, 24
Tim Schenks (Tschenks) Advanced Member Username: Tschenks Post Number: 860 Registered: 3-2006	Posted on Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 1:07 am:       Thrivent already refused to match funds for Lutherans for Life a few years ago.
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4308 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 11:53 am:       Given the ELCA Membership Trend and the LCMS Membership Trend it should not be surprising to see Thrivent working to attract and increase its market share of non-Lutheran customers, even at the expense of losing or even offending some of its original base.
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4309 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 9:35 pm:       The Thrivent announcement, "Members, Thrivent Take Action on Thrivent Choice® Issue" states that it is "temporarily suspending all pro-choice and pro-life organizations from the Thrivent Choice program, placing a temporary hold on the addition and removal of nonprofit organizations from the program, and conducting a comprehensive program review." 1. The use of "temporarily suspending" indicates that the murder-by-abortion organizations possibly may be put back on the Thrivent Choice program following a "comprehensive program review." 2. By temporarily suspending non-profit pro-life organizations from its Choice program, Thrivent has treated and effectively equated these pro-life organizations with murder-by-abortion organizations just as much as one may effectively equate the Thrivent Financial for Lutherans Board of Directors, including Thrivent's President, with morally incompetent management. The Bare Bulb article, "Dear Thrivent," points out another problem about Thrivent management and their pathetic announcement.
Doug Andersen (Lutherman) Intermediate Member Username: Lutherman Post Number: 362 Registered: 6-2006	Posted on Saturday, December 21, 2013 - 11:13 pm:       Thrivent is not Lutheran. It is just another secular insurance/financial corporation...
Jojakim Dettmann (Random_layman) Senior Member Username: Random_layman Post Number: 3102 Registered: 5-2006	Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2013 - 12:53 am:       Thrivent votes all of the shares it manages in accord with pro homosexual politics: http://www.lutherquest.org/cgi-bin/discus40/show.c gi?tpc=84706&post=227939#POST227939 This attitude is why nothing will be done to fix it: http://www.lutherquest.org/cgi-bin/discus40/show.c gi?tpc=87116&post=237192#POST237192
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4310 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Sunday, December 22, 2013 - 2:45 pm:       Here is a link to the WELS Statement Regarding Thrivent Choice Program. At the end there is a note with a link to Thrivent's subsequent statement temporarily suspending all pro-choice and pro-life organizations from the Thrivent Choice program. There is nothing regarding Thrivent on the ELS news website. There is nothing on the Thrivent Choice program and Planned Parenthood on the North American Lutheran Church website There is nothing on the XXXA website.
Sharlene Miers (Joyfulnoise) Advanced Member Username: Joyfulnoise Post Number: 851 Registered: 6-2005	Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2013 - 11:22 pm:       I think by suspending pro life organizations, Thrivent is attempting to punish those members who had the audacity to complain about their contributions to Planned Parenthood.
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4316 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 9:22 am:       It is also possible that the announcement by Thriven't temporarily suspending Choice funding to pro-life as well as pro-murder-by-abortion groups would help cover up that Thriven't caved to Christian pressure. It would also lessen outrage from cults like NALC, CORE and XXXA, and other leftist potential customers, that their genocidal comrades (temporarily) could not get access to Thriven't funding.
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4317 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 10:27 am:       The Purple Palace statements on Thriven't here and here (and any future statements) are diplomatically worded and avoid endangering the current enrollment of LCMS organizations eligible to receive Thriven't Choice dollars.
Robert C. Baker (Robert_c_baker) Intermediate Member Username: Robert_c_baker Post Number: 405 Registered: 2-2012	Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 10:56 am:       Instead of doling out Thrivent Choice dollars, wouldn't it be better for the company to reduce its premiums? If Thrivent has money to give away, then it has collected too much to begin with.
Franz Linden (Franz_mann) Senior Member Username: Franz_mann Post Number: 1818 Registered: 12-2004	Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 11:08 am:       President Harrison writes: The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod (LCMS) is deeply concerned by the news that Thrivent Financial has recognized Planned Parenthood of Minnesota, North Dakota and South Dakota as a potential recipient of funding through its Thrivent Choice Dollars grant program. Deeply concerned? How deeply, exactly? This is politician speak. "We're deeply concerned, so deeply concerned that we're going to tell everyone that we are deeply concerned." Wow! There's a bold stance against infanticide. Franz
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4318 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 11:21 am:       Deeply concerned? How deeply, exactly? Enter "deeply concerned" into internet search engines like Dogpile or DuckDuckGo to see how widespread that diplomatic euphemism is used.
Rick Strickert (Carlvehse) Senior Member Username: Carlvehse Post Number: 4319 Registered: 10-2003	Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 11:27 am:       Instead of doling out Thrivent Choice dollars, wouldn't it be better for the company to reduce its premiums? That depends on how much "good corporate citizenship" advertising mileage Thriven't can milk out of its Choice program.
Rev. Kevin D. Vogts (Kevin_vogts) Advanced Member Username: Kevin_vogts Post Number: 987 Registered: 1-2005	Posted on Friday, December 27, 2013 - 8:58 pm:       >>Instead of doling out Thrivent Choice dollars, wouldn't it be better for the company to reduce its premiums? As a fraternal benefit society (not insurance company), which is a unique corporate construct with along and complicated historical background, they cannot simply reduce their premiums but are required to distribute funds for fraternal purposes.
Robert C. Baker (Robert_c_baker) Intermediate Member Username: Robert_c_baker Post Number: 406 Registered: 2-2012	Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2013 - 10:09 am:       Kevin, Thrivent most certainly can reduce the amount it charges its customers. There's nothing in their charter requiring a certain pricing structure. More importantly, folks can disassociate themselves from this fraternal organization as a matter of conscience.
Rev. Kevin D. Vogts (Kevin_vogts) Advanced Member Username: Kevin_vogts Post Number: 988 Registered: 1-2005	Posted on Saturday, December 28, 2013 - 4:37 pm:       I was formerly president of the Union County, South Dakota chapter of Thrivent, so I am somewhat familiar with this topic. The laws governing fraternal benefit societies require them to disburse certain proportions of funds for fraternal benefit purposes. There has been some concern by regulators recently that some fraternal benefit societies (not Thrivent) are not disbursing adequate amounts for fraternal benefit purposes. The specific suggestion made above was, "Instead of doling out Thrivent Choice dollars, wouldn't it be better for the company to reduce its premiums?" However, in order to remain in conformity with their charter as a fraternal benefit society they cannot reduce the amount they currently distribute, and in fact are seeking to increase that amount. Though Thrivent has not yet been called into question by regulators, some other fraternal benefit societies have, and Thrivent is careful to fulfill this requirement. So the specific suggestion above is not possible. They could, of course, lower premiums either by reducing administrative costs or increasing the return on their investments, but both of those suggestions are a different matter. The disbursements for fraternal benefit purposes are not overhead or administrative or even marketing or public relations expenses, which could be reduced. They are a mandatory expenditure required by law for a fraternal benefit society. All this being said, I want to make it clear that I am appalled at Thrivent suspending over 50 religious pro-life organizations because of legitimate concerns about one secular pro-abortion organization. I immediately came to the same conclusion as Sharlene above (great minds think alike) that they seem to be punishing pro-life members who complained. I wrote them a lengthy letter in which I said this, and concluded that it was ironic that last year they "expanded the common bond" to include non-Lutherans -- because now with this action they have just hung onto Thrivent a sign which says, "Missouri and Wisconsin Synods NOT WELCOME."

***

GJ - Vogts neglected to say these local Thrivent chapters are ELCA-WELS-LCMS-ELS-CLC (sic).

Yes, I know the CLC (sic) claims to be apart from Thrivent work, but they got rid of a pastor for mentioning that Immanuel in Mankato (CLC sic) was eagerly part of Thrivent.

Local chapters are just one more expression of WELS and Missouri being one with ELCA. They all work together at the local level, at the board level, and at the national level.

Mark/Avoid Jeske belongs to Missouri and WELS, holding a national board position at Thrivent. Why not take this up with him? Or ask Harrison, McCain, and Schroeder why Jeske is not excommunicated for funding Planned Parenthood.

Harrison admitted at the Emmaus Conference that his synod alone gets $50 to $60 million each year from Thrivent.

ELCA probably gets double that, so all the LCMS-WELS members are funding ELCA.

A bit hypocritical?