Let Us Pause To Honor the WELS Framework of Fellowship

WELS pontificates - "They are outside the framework of church fellowship." But of course, WELS ardently worships at the same throne.

I was talking to a member about all the honored greats of Church Growth who imploded, plus a few other scoundrels. WELS and Missouri share them - but the Little Sect on the Prairie is pure (yuk, yuk). Just ask the ELS.

Mark and Avoid Jeske is a regular Robert Schulller, liberal Calvinist, tireless self-promoter, anxious to include every confession of faith, except Justification by Faith.
He has his hands in Thrivent and the Seibert Foundation, The Core, Church and Church (now in stealth mode), and various other entities.

Starting at the top left - Craig Groeschel was being copied verbatim at the Glende-Ski Popcorn Cathedral of Love. The lawyer who proved this and objected to it was excommunicated. The DP supported Glende and Ski.

Top middle - Mark Driscoll - who said bodies would be piled up when he was done. Ski, Glende, and Bishop Katie went to absorb the magic.

Next row down, left - Donald McGavran, Disciples of Christ, founder of Church Growth, promoter of Planned Parenthood in writing.

Aging hippy with the moustache - Leonard Sweet - adored in WELS and the LCMS St. Louis Apostasiorium. Maybe he was really profound, but he sounded like one of those weed addicts who never stop talking.

The cheerful chubby is Ed Stetzer, who is currently very big at Wheaton College and Trinity Divinity in Deerfield. The Deerfield branch of Pietism was used so much by WELS staff that their Love Shack was mentioned twice in one annual report. Trinity Divinity has been disgraced by the behavior of Bill Hybels (below) and Ravi Zacharias. WELS gave pastors money to learn from His Holiness Hybels (but offered me a scholarship there).

The big white-haired portrait is C. Peter Wagner, aka Pete Wagner, also popular in WELS, though his Pentecostal ravings should have frightened most people away. He fell for the creepy guy who was "raising people from the dead" in Florida. He was the hot-shot promoter for McGavran, or as WELS might say, the Larry Olson for the Founder of Church Growth.

At the bottom is Andy Stanley, gay activist Babtist, son of the equally appalling Charles Stanley. Glende, Ski, Bishop Katie (and others) attended at least one Andie Stanley money-maker. Ski blogged about it - lavishing praise on Andy Stanley and worshiping with him. The blog was out in public for a long time. I copied parts of it, because I knew they would destroy the evidence and deny it. 

WELS pastors and staff, plus LCMS dolts of the same persuasion, can always be found with Enthusiasts. They are now so deluded that they continue on the same path, looking for more reasons their faithless Law speeches are driving people away or into their lupine jaws.

Let us not forget Archbishop Weakland, who was invited - with his priests - to offer public lectures at Wisconsin Lutheran College (WELS), a fact later denied by the college and WELS. The lectures were publicized (also denied by WELS). It was not a private luncheon, as WELS declared, which is even more bizarre than lectures. Weakland was also under fire for his relationship with a man and his misuse of church funds, but that was no problem for WELS.

Archbishop Rembert Weakland

One WELS Church Growth expert sold Cho books at a WELS gathering, and Cho was promoted at the Kelm conference I was forced to attend.

I do not remember if Hill's name was mentioned in awe - as so many phonies are in WELS - but he was a major influence for Robert Schuller, who received an award for supporting Hill's dogma. Pete Wagner talked crazy like this too. Luther warned that when the Means of Grace are set aside, many foul errors will rush in. 

 WELS has a special hatred for the Book of Concord. They are Quia Marias, pretending to love a confession they despise and corrupt. The ELS is the same but quieter.

Cross-dressing Andy Mueller, son of Wayne, is a big deal at Church and Change Your Gender, the WELS Church Growth cult that went invisible.

Groeschel and Stanley - Who Wins the Hearts of the WELS Appledumb Circuit?- Luther or the Enthusiasts?From 2009

Ski went to the November Stanley/Groeschel event:

Groeschel: My church needs my leadership more than my preaching. Interesting thought.
11:46 AM Nov 20th, 2008 from twitterrific
Groeschel: Pastor's who don't take time off are dull of pride and are poor leaders. - wow.
11:42 AM Nov 20th, 2008 from twitterrific
At the one day Catalyst conference. Good stuff
5:41 AM Nov 20th, 2008 from twitterrific
@ the movie in Granger baby! What a town!
6:52 PM Nov 19th, 2008 from twitterrific in reply to the
Going to Granger to see Andy Stanly (sic) & Craig Groeshel speak on leadership.
8:31 AM Nov 19th, 2008 from twitterrific

Ski's plans have been made known to his WELS circuit:

At Appleton Circut Pastors Conference. Going to give an update on The CORE.
7:32 AM Dec 1st, 2008 from twitterrific.


Andy Stanley held the Catalyst One Day Event with Evangelical Covenant Minister Craig Groeschel, November, 2008. Here is what he presented:


WHAT YOU WILL LEARN

At Catalyst One Day, you will:

■Discover the key to creating and sustaining momentum in your organization
■Identify and break through the barriers to momentum
■Overcome personal leadership lids
■Leverage the three triggers which ignite organizational momentum
■Create a culture of continual improvement
■Embrace a new approach to leading organizational change

Vintage Groeschel, decanted at a Willow Creek Training Event

1. How many of you have been to a church and it was dead? They didn’t have… IT
2. What about going to a place where you felt God and knew they had… IT?
3. Sarted in a two car garage students met in closet… Every week students came out of the closet
4. They didn’t have the stuff that most people think we need to have a church.
5. Every week people came to know God and invited their friends because they didn’t have the stuff they thought they needed… they had what they needed… The Spir-IT!
6. It’s something more than just the Spirit - to say the people who don’t have it don’t have the spirit would be insulting
7. New York Campus has seen %145 increase in a year - the campus he attends is the only one that has decreased = %3
8. What is it? The answer is = don’t know
   God makes IT happen. We can’t create it, we can’t reproduce it, we can’t manufacture it, it can’t be taught, but it can be caught, it’s not a model, it’s not emergent, purpose driven, seeker sensitive, it is usually brought by more than one person, but usually one person can kill it
9. You could say, “IT Happens!” but often it doesn’t
10. Good news = if you don’t have it, doesn’t mean you can’t find it
11. Bad news = if you have it, you may not keep it
    Acts 2:42-47 -
12. They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
13. Four qualities that are most often there when IT is present:
14. Laser Focus - most people today said more ministries/events is better. I believe better ministries is better. Jim Collins asked, “what can you be the very best at?” In order to reach people that no one is reaching, you’ll have to do things that no one else is doing. But to do things that no one else is doing, you can’t do what everyone else is doing! Planned abandonment!
15. Started examining ministries. Concert ministries was just entertaining other churches people. Don’t do
16. Cut all but 5 things. Worship, Small groups, kids ministry, student ministry, missions.
17. What are you doing that you need to STOP doing.
18. They see opportunities where others see obstacles
19. You have everything that you need to do all that God wants you to do.
20. You don’t have what you want or what they think they need, you have what you and they need
21. What if I said you need to raise 100,000 dollars by Friday? Couldn’t do it. What if I said you have to raise 100,000 for a shot for child otherwise they will die? YEP! Overcome the obstacle!
22. He often provides where God doesn’t provide. They had to see something they couldn’t see.
23. What is God trying to show you through your greatest limitation?
24. They are willing to fail
25. Failure is not an option… I agree, “It’s a necessity!”
26. Peter couldn’t have done what he did if he hadn’t failed! He failed walking on water, he failed by denying Him, but he succeeded feeding his sheep! 3,000 were saved!
27. They failed starting two campuses in Phoenix and ended up having to merge them
28. There are two steps to failure.
29. The Mule - shook of the dirt, the dirt started piling up at his feet and he started stepping up. SHAKE IT OFF! STEP IT UP!
30. What has God called you to do that you are afraid to attempt? When are you going to do it?
31. They are led by people who have IT!
32. You need to have IT for your ministry to have IT!
33. Before long ministry started to kill IT! It became less about building his kingdom and more about building my church. I started preaching messages that would bring people in instead of pleasing to God
34. I tried to be Rick Warren - but I’m accidental. I tried to be Joel Osteen - but I’m not that happy!
35. When you have IT in you, it starts coming out, and other people with IT will come to you
36. We start to try to acquire the things we don’t need to have IT
37. God showed me I had became a full time pastor and a part time follower of Christ! DANG!
38. I stopped reading other books, and started just reading the Bible. I went to another country and held a baby that would probably die after I left. I started fasting again!
39. Let God break your heart again!
40. If you read this say a prayer for Mike. A guy Craig has been ministering to for 4 years and still hasn’t accepted Christ!
41. If you don’t have it what are you going to do to get it?
42. WOW! Go here and buy his message if you are a church leader. It should be up here later.

---

So here is Swerve, where Groeschel is writing about borrowing an Andy Stanley sermon. If Swerve sounds familiar - Ski is a follower.

How To Use Someone Else's Material

Recently I used Andy Stanley’s series, “How to Be Rich.” (If you haven’t listened to his messages, I highly recommend that you do.)

Here’s what we did:

•We asked for permission. (For the record, if you use something from LifeChurch.tv Open, you don’t have to ask for permission. Since I didn’t know North Point’s stance, asking permission seemed like the right thing to do.)
•We gave Andy credit publicly and sent people to his church’s website.
•We sent Andy a note with a small gift to say “thank you.” (This obviously isn’t necessary, but I wanted to express my gratitude for his hard work, excellent material, and generosity.)
Parts of the series included almost exclusively his material. Other parts were very much my own. To me, he deserved full credit and honor for God’s work through him.

Several people thanked me for exposing them to North Point’s ministry. I’m thrilled to turn them on to a great spiritual resource.

When have you observed this done well?

This entry was posted on Tuesday, July 22nd, 2008 at 5:46 am and is filed under communication. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

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Since Groeschel has to borrow sermons, we have to wonder if those, like Ski, who borrow Groeschel, are ever getting original material to foist on their audiences.

One person actually objected to this practice. I have some of his material copied below. Please read the entire essay.

When it comes to matters of integrity and decency, the normal course of events it seems, is that the secular culture and the world often condones that which the church condemns. For example, when the world calls adultery an “affair,” justifies divorce without cause, or calls addictions “diseases,” it is then the church that holds its own people accountable to a higher standard of morality and has less toleration for a lack of integrity and morality.

Although we typically find the world celebrating sin and the church confronting it, there is one area where this seems to be reversed: Plagiarism.

When it comes to intellectual property, copying another person’s work, and presenting it as one’s own, the secular world has absolutely no room for toleration. However, the church too often fails to condemn the same behavior, and sometimes even boasts of its use!

Why?

Consider this, can you imagine a member of congress standing up and saying “Last night I was doing some research and 74% of …” when he didn’t, but was reciting another person’s experience? Or what about a CEO standing in front of his board of directors saying “I remember it like it was yesterday,” while every word he speaks is another person’s history? Or what about your child’s 6th grade English teacher grading a book report presentation that was actually memorized from another student’s report?

We all know what happens when people in the secular world behave this way. Last year, an aide to the president resigned. Ironically, a university was recently under fire for copying another school’s policy on, plagiarism. Even Oprah Winfrey has been embarrassed, twice, for endorsing books written by authors who have manufactured history. If this behavior was appropriate, why was Oprah embarrassed by it, and why was it a scandal in the secular press? How can it then be endorsed by those who claim the name of Christ, and be tolerated by churches who practice this deceptive behavior while claiming and even openly bragging about their churches being “authentic” and “genuine?”

So what exactly am I talking about, the reader might ask? Am I talking about a pastor who hears another pastor’s sermon and wants to share it with his congregation, uses the same outline and verse, and disclaims ahead of time what he is doing? While I think doing so should be rare, it isn’t what I am criticizing here. This post is also not concerned specifically with a pastor who reads another’s sermon aloud, and tells his congregation what he is doing. While that should be rare too, it isn’t what I am addressing in this post.

What I am focusing on is the use of the same sermon, the same text, the same examples, and the same experiences, even first person, as if they are one’s own.

Craig Groeschel, who gives his sermons away on the Internet for free says, “It isn’t plagiarizing if you’re given permission,” and also agrees that “just because it isn’t plagiarizing doesn’t always mean you shouldn’t give credit to others.”

While I agree with Pastor Groeschel’s definition, I think it is incomplete, because plagiarism, I believe, also includes the element of deception when a sermon is presented, because the expectation of the congregation, without being notified, is that the material is the speaker’s own work. Especially when examples, experiences, and testimonies are spoken in first person. Just because a pastor has permission to use someone else’s material, this doesn’t mean he is without responsibility to not compromise his integrity to his hearers by presenting the material to them as if it were the work of his own study and preparation.

Craig Groeschel is a member of the Evangelical Covenant Church, closely related in doctrine to Trinity, Deerfield, where Larry Olson studied, and where WELS spends so much money in training that The Sausage Factory is listed twice in their catalogue as a sponsor.

Affiliation
LifeChurch.tv is part of the Evangelical Covenant Church (ECC) - a rapidly growing multi-ethnic denomination in the United States and Canada with ministries on five continents of the world. Founded in 1885 by Swedish immigrants, the ECC values the Bible as the Word of God, the gift of God's grace and ever-deepening spiritual life that comes through faith in Jesus Christ, the importance of extending God's love and compassion to a hurting world, and the strength that comes from unity within diversity.

What makes the Covenant unique from other denominations is the fact that while it strongly affirms the clear teaching of the Word of God, it allows believers the personal freedom to have varying interpretations on theological issues that are not clearly presented in Scripture.

Note the statement of beliefs on the same page, which will occupy a separate post above.

From WELS Pastor Mark Walters - 10 Years Ago - Threats from Canada, eh?

WELS Pastor Mark Walters, from Abiding Word, Ottawa, Canada:

Greg:

Thanks for the stimulating conversation.  Would you be willing to help promote confessional Lutheranism in Ottawa by posting our website on your blog…I hope you have some nice cartoons for me.

I also pray that you discover grace…not intellectually but that it melts your heart to breathe the love of the Gospel of Christ,

Thanks,

Mark

www.abidingword.ca

[December 8, 2009]

---

GJ - The following is an email from Pastor Mark Walters, pictured above. I phoned him in case the email was fraudulent. He called back a few days later and confirmed that he sent it, that he meant to shut down Ichabod. "I am going to contact some people in the States and see what can be done. You are harming the Kingdom."

---

Subject: Let me know one thing (December 2, 2009)

pastor.abidingword@rogers.com

Greg Jackson:



My name is Mark Walters. I think I went to school with your son, Marty.



I am a pastor in the WELS and serving at Abiding Word Lutheran Church in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada



I am a VERY supportive brother of Jeff Gunn, Ski, Tim Glende, and many others that you seem to enjoy trashing.



How do I get my picture on your website so that I can join your toxic hall of fame?????????



I’m very sad that you spend your time putting up such a legalistic, judgemental (sic) website, without knowing the true facts about things.



I will do everything in my power to shut you down because you are destructive to the kingdom.



Please contact me soon.



613-824-2524



Mark Walters

***

GJ - Walters had no problem with his friend Ski going to Groeschel, Stanley, Beeson, etc for training. "Name one false doctrine from Groeschel," he demanded. I said, "Everything."

He tried the "spoiling the Egyptians" argument on me, not using those words but the concept. He claimed - Christians need other Christians and they can use their discernment, which he found somewhere in Paul. He did not seem to connect with Matthew 7, 1 Timothy 4, or 2 Timothy 4.

---


-----Original Message-----
From: Gregory L. Jackson
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 11:33 AM
To: pastor.abidingword@rogers.com
Subject: Your wish has been granted



Were you at the latest Church and Change conference? Or previous ones?



This is my regular email account.



In Christ,



Greg Jackson, PhD

---

Not at the last one…at previous ones.

Thanks,

Mark

"God: Never Get Too Big For Him." Ben Carson

Pastor Mark Walters

1575 Belcourt Blvd.

Orleans, ON K1C 1M3



Phone: 613-824-2524

Fax: 613-824-2905

---

Michael Schottey has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastor Mark Walters Threatens To Shut Down Ic...":

"Supporting brother of Jeff Gunn, Ski....etc"

That means he went to school with the whole group.

Mark Walters--WLS Class of '97
James "Ski" Skorzewski--Class of '98
Tim Glende--Class of '98

Its hard to disagree with someone when you sat next to them in class or drove them back from the bar late one night. At least, its hard when you don't have a backbone.

The reverse Ad Hominem support system of classmates is a ridiculous system. The guy is good...so he must be doing things the right way. Then you base all arguments on the guy's sterling character.

"Supportive Brother" just means these men were in COS together.

Rev. Mark Bitter on "Spoiling the Egyptians:" "While the Lord was telling Moses exactly how he wanted to be worshiped, the Israelites were worshiping like the Egyptians did."

He then went on a 10 minute binge against churches who want to use praise songs instead of psalms.

It was easy to see the classmates who were grinning and those squirming in their seats.

This was all at Evangelism Day...somewhere down the hall "Ski" was torturing minds. I skipped Kelm's key note for my own sanity.

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastor Mark Walters Threatens To Shut Down Ic...":

Congratulations!
It's just noon and you took out 2 minor trolls and now they send in the "Creeker Errand Boy" from Ontario.
Pretty good and it's just noon.

More cow bell puhleez, Pastor Jackson

I'm ROFL, keep slingin that sword
Blogging and Scholarship what a combo, only a REAL Lutheran could pull that off!

--The LCMS Church Lady

---

mjleyrer has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastor Mark Walters Threatens To Shut Down Ic...":

Nothing like empty, unexecutable threats to get your morning going eh Jacko?

If someone did shut you down I would be upset because if there's one thing that I care about as much as the church it Constitutional Liberties. This would definitely be an infringement of one.

I don't even think he could file libel against you if he wanted to. Maybe he could.

See Jacko, even the guys who don't agree with you want you stay up and running. Because if you went away, who would I have to argue with?

***

GJ - I was shocked, shocked to find out Rev. Mark was a regular at Church and Chicanery conferences. And he links to Time of Generic Grace.

He confuses satire with slander. The funny Photoshops seem to rile him more than is healthy for someone so brittle and humorless. I tried to point out the long history of satirical cartoons, going back the the 19th century at least. But Mark is slow to listen, quick to talk, quick to anger.

My suggestion is that he go to court in Ottawa and get an injunction banning anyone in Ontario from reading Ichabod. That would be fair, eh?

Muslims in Canada went after Mark Steyn. Perhaps Mark is taking lessons.

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Michael Schottey has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastor Mark Walters Threatens To Shut Down Ic...":

OF COURSE Rev. Mark is a regular at C&C events. If my church offered to pay my way to a drinking date with my buddies, I'd take the money too!

I love when he asked about Groeschel...that quote needs to be sent, verbatim to every and all of his superiors from the Mission counselors to President Schroeder.

If this man can't test the spirits of a yahoo like Groeschel, I can't believe he is a fit expositor of God's word.

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Michael Schottey has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastor Mark Walters Threatens To Shut Down Ic...":

Leyrer,

Speaking of logical fallacies...I didn't say he would be a bad preacher because he is trying to "shut down Ichabod."

I said I couldn't imagine a fit expositor of God's word who can't find fault with Craig Groeschel's filth pile that is LifeChurch.tv

If someone wasn't paying attention in class while Professors Fredrich and Schmidt were talking about the dangers of false teachers, how much else did they miss?

---

rwiedenhoeft@wisc.edu

Pastor Jackons (sic),


What are your shortcomings?


Chairman Bob

***

GJ - I can spell. I can tell you are probably from UW Madison, perhaps a victim of Willow Creek Chapel.

---

I. J. Reilly has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastor Mark Walters Threatens To Shut Down Ic...":

Brett--

I don't think your comments would convince Anders. I went to the web page he advertised on this blog and it is apparently the work of a group who believe that the real teachings of Jesus were corrupted by the church and "The Apostate Paul." (Wow, someone besides GJ knows how to compose insulting nicknames that reduces an opponent to a stereotype.) I don't think he'd find much creedence (sic) in your quotes from Romans, Titus, Galatians, and Ephesians. Noble effort, though.

***

GJ - How delicious it must be, to post anonymous, gratuitous comments and be able to brag to fellow sots, "Look at what I published!" With enough comments posted, a semblance of proper spelling may emerge. No, wait, it hasn't so far.


---

JR has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastor Mark Walters Threatens To Shut Down Ic...":

Wow, I'm on holiday for a few days, and look what happens when I return! Trolls abound, Jews enter the fray, and Canadian pastors threaten to turn out the lights. Ichabod is the place to be!

Mr. Leyrer, I gotta give it up to you. You took a beating, but you hung in there. Great last comment, by the way. Those were my sentiments exactly! +1 for you.

Mr. Schottey, how has your outspokenness affected your standing in WELS? I'd love to "come out," but I am wary of the backlash. I'm interested in hearing what has happened to you.

***

GJ - Total freedom of expression in WELS: real diversity. Not to worry.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastor Mark Walters Threatens To Shut Down Ic...":

GJ, all theological arguments aside, "judgmental" is in fact the proper Canadian spelling of the word. To poke fun at a pastor in Canada for using correct Canadian spelling is either intentional mean-spiritedness I'll wow the Americans who are ignorant of Canadian spelling rules) or just ignorance of Canadian spelling on your part. If one posts from the US on a British website, one is not expected to use the affectation of British spelling.

***

GJ - I love the patronizing tone of these anonymous comments. Notice how one little (sic) can rustle their chicken feathers. That little Latin word means "thus" - not "this person is an idiot." Mark is not Johnny Canuck. is he? He had the benefit of 8 years of WELS higher education, in America. I am not sure if he is returning to the Motherland or just spending a few years in exile for threatening someone else. They have some good anger management classes in Ottawa, eh?

Here's a a conveniently located one for Mark -
Anger & Emotions Management Institute,
421 Gilmour Street, Ottawa, ON K2P 0R5, Canada
(613) 231-2051‎.

My wife and I earned degrees in Canada, so we spent a few enjoyable years there. The Canadians are great people. We have many relatives there, so we know how to say Chooseday, ask for serviettes (not napkins), and smile when offered biscuits (cookies). We learned to plug our lamps into the hydro when we sat on our chesterfield. We know about British/Canadian spelling, favouring the extra vowel, in Saviour or aluminium. Spelling is our speciality.

I relish the moments when some humorless Chicanery starts lecturing in stealth mode.



---

From 2009 - Ski Promoting Catalyst and Groeschel

Ski went to the November Stanley/Groeschel event:

Groeschel: My church needs my leadership more than my preaching. Interesting thought.
11:46 AM Nov 20th, 2008 from twitterrific
Groeschel: Pastor's who don't take time off are dull of pride and are poor leaders. - wow.
11:42 AM Nov 20th, 2008 from twitterrific
At the one day Catalyst conference. Good stuff
5:41 AM Nov 20th, 2008 from twitterrific
@ the movie in Granger baby! What a town!
6:52 PM Nov 19th, 2008 from twitterrific in reply to the
Going to Granger to see Andy Stanly (sic) & Craig Groeshel speak on leadership.
8:31 AM Nov 19th, 2008 from twitterrific

Ski's plans have been made known to his WELS circuit:

At Appleton Circut Pastors Conference. Going to give an update on The CORE.
7:32 AM Dec 1st, 2008 from twitterrific.


Andy Stanley held the Catalyst One Day Event with Evangelical Covenant Minister Craig Groeschel, November, 2008. Here is what he presented:


WHAT YOU WILL LEARN

At Catalyst One Day, you will:

■Discover the key to creating and sustaining momentum in your organization
■Identify and break through the barriers to momentum
■Overcome personal leadership lids
■Leverage the three triggers which ignite organizational momentum
■Create a culture of continual improvement
■Embrace a new approach to leading organizational change

Vintage Groeschel, decanted at a Willow Creek Training Event

1. How many of you have been to a church and it was dead? They didn’t have… IT
2. What about going to a place where you felt God and knew they had… IT?
3. Sarted in a two car garage students met in closet… Every week students came out of the closet
4. They didn’t have the stuff that most people think we need to have a church.
5. Every week people came to know God and invited their friends because they didn’t have the stuff they thought they needed… they had what they needed… The Spir-IT!
6. It’s something more than just the Spirit - to say the people who don’t have it don’t have the spirit would be insulting
7. New York Campus has seen %145 increase in a year - the campus he attends is the only one that has decreased = %3
8. What is it? The answer is = don’t know
   God makes IT happen. We can’t create it, we can’t reproduce it, we can’t manufacture it, it can’t be taught, but it can be caught, it’s not a model, it’s not emergent, purpose driven, seeker sensitive, it is usually brought by more than one person, but usually one person can kill it
9. You could say, “IT Happens!” but often it doesn’t
10. Good news = if you don’t have it, doesn’t mean you can’t find it
11. Bad news = if you have it, you may not keep it
    Acts 2:42-47 -
12. They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
13. Four qualities that are most often there when IT is present:
14. Laser Focus - most people today said more ministries/events is better. I believe better ministries is better. Jim Collins asked, “what can you be the very best at?” In order to reach people that no one is reaching, you’ll have to do things that no one else is doing. But to do things that no one else is doing, you can’t do what everyone else is doing! Planned abandonment!
15. Started examining ministries. Concert ministries was just entertaining other churches people. Don’t do
16. Cut all but 5 things. Worship, Small groups, kids ministry, student ministry, missions.
17. What are you doing that you need to STOP doing.
18. They see opportunities where others see obstacles
19. You have everything that you need to do all that God wants you to do.
20. You don’t have what you want or what they think they need, you have what you and they need
21. What if I said you need to raise 100,000 dollars by Friday? Couldn’t do it. What if I said you have to raise 100,000 for a shot for child otherwise they will die? YEP! Overcome the obstacle!
22. He often provides where God doesn’t provide. They had to see something they couldn’t see.
23. What is God trying to show you through your greatest limitation?
24. They are willing to fail
25. Failure is not an option… I agree, “It’s a necessity!”
26. Peter couldn’t have done what he did if he hadn’t failed! He failed walking on water, he failed by denying Him, but he succeeded feeding his sheep! 3,000 were saved!
27. They failed starting two campuses in Phoenix and ended up having to merge them
28. There are two steps to failure.
29. The Mule - shook of the dirt, the dirt started piling up at his feet and he started stepping up. SHAKE IT OFF! STEP IT UP!
30. What has God called you to do that you are afraid to attempt? When are you going to do it?
31. They are led by people who have IT!
32. You need to have IT for your ministry to have IT!
33. Before long ministry started to kill IT! It became less about building his kingdom and more about building my church. I started preaching messages that would bring people in instead of pleasing to God
34. I tried to be Rick Warren - but I’m accidental. I tried to be Joel Osteen - but I’m not that happy!
35. When you have IT in you, it starts coming out, and other people with IT will come to you
36. We start to try to acquire the things we don’t need to have IT
37. God showed me I had became a full time pastor and a part time follower of Christ! DANG!
38. I stopped reading other books, and started just reading the Bible. I went to another country and held a baby that would probably die after I left. I started fasting again!
39. Let God break your heart again!
40. If you read this say a prayer for Mike. A guy Craig has been ministering to for 4 years and still hasn’t accepted Christ!
41. If you don’t have it what are you going to do to get it?
42. WOW! Go here and buy his message if you are a church leader. It should be up here later.

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So here is Swerve, where Groeschel is writing about borrowing an Andy Stanley sermon. If Swerve sounds familiar - Ski is a follower.

How To Use Someone Else's Material

Recently I used Andy Stanley’s series, “How to Be Rich.” (If you haven’t listened to his messages, I highly recommend that you do.)

Here’s what we did:

•We asked for permission. (For the record, if you use something from LifeChurch.tv Open, you don’t have to ask for permission. Since I didn’t know North Point’s stance, asking permission seemed like the right thing to do.)
•We gave Andy credit publicly and sent people to his church’s website.
•We sent Andy a note with a small gift to say “thank you.” (This obviously isn’t necessary, but I wanted to express my gratitude for his hard work, excellent material, and generosity.)
Parts of the series included almost exclusively his material. Other parts were very much my own. To me, he deserved full credit and honor for God’s work through him.

Several people thanked me for exposing them to North Point’s ministry. I’m thrilled to turn them on to a great spiritual resource.

When have you observed this done well?

This entry was posted on Tuesday, July 22nd, 2008 at 5:46 am and is filed under communication. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

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Since Groeschel has to borrow sermons, we have to wonder if those, like Ski, who borrow Groeschel, are ever getting original material to foist on their audiences.

One person actually objected to this practice. I have some of his material copied below. Please read the entire essay.

When it comes to matters of integrity and decency, the normal course of events it seems, is that the secular culture and the world often condones that which the church condemns. For example, when the world calls adultery an “affair,” justifies divorce without cause, or calls addictions “diseases,” it is then the church that holds its own people accountable to a higher standard of morality and has less toleration for a lack of integrity and morality.

Although we typically find the world celebrating sin and the church confronting it, there is one area where this seems to be reversed: Plagiarism.

When it comes to intellectual property, copying another person’s work, and presenting it as one’s own, the secular world has absolutely no room for toleration. However, the church too often fails to condemn the same behavior, and sometimes even boasts of its use!

Why?

Consider this, can you imagine a member of congress standing up and saying “Last night I was doing some research and 74% of …” when he didn’t, but was reciting another person’s experience? Or what about a CEO standing in front of his board of directors saying “I remember it like it was yesterday,” while every word he speaks is another person’s history? Or what about your child’s 6th grade English teacher grading a book report presentation that was actually memorized from another student’s report?

We all know what happens when people in the secular world behave this way. Last year, an aide to the president resigned. Ironically, a university was recently under fire for copying another school’s policy on, plagiarism. Even Oprah Winfrey has been embarrassed, twice, for endorsing books written by authors who have manufactured history. If this behavior was appropriate, why was Oprah embarrassed by it, and why was it a scandal in the secular press? How can it then be endorsed by those who claim the name of Christ, and be tolerated by churches who practice this deceptive behavior while claiming and even openly bragging about their churches being “authentic” and “genuine?”

So what exactly am I talking about, the reader might ask? Am I talking about a pastor who hears another pastor’s sermon and wants to share it with his congregation, uses the same outline and verse, and disclaims ahead of time what he is doing? While I think doing so should be rare, it isn’t what I am criticizing here. This post is also not concerned specifically with a pastor who reads another’s sermon aloud, and tells his congregation what he is doing. While that should be rare too, it isn’t what I am addressing in this post.

What I am focusing on is the use of the same sermon, the same text, the same examples, and the same experiences, even first person, as if they are one’s own.

Craig Groeschel, who gives his sermons away on the Internet for free says, “It isn’t plagiarizing if you’re given permission,” and also agrees that “just because it isn’t plagiarizing doesn’t always mean you shouldn’t give credit to others.”

While I agree with Pastor Groeschel’s definition, I think it is incomplete, because plagiarism, I believe, also includes the element of deception when a sermon is presented, because the expectation of the congregation, without being notified, is that the material is the speaker’s own work. Especially when examples, experiences, and testimonies are spoken in first person. Just because a pastor has permission to use someone else’s material, this doesn’t mean he is without responsibility to not compromise his integrity to his hearers by presenting the material to them as if it were the work of his own study and preparation.

Craig Groeschel is a member of the Evangelical Covenant Church, closely related in doctrine to Trinity, Deerfield, where Larry Olson studied, and where WELS spends so much money in training that The Sausage Factory is listed twice in their catalogue as a sponsor.

Affiliation
LifeChurch.tv is part of the Evangelical Covenant Church (ECC) - a rapidly growing multi-ethnic denomination in the United States and Canada with ministries on five continents of the world. Founded in 1885 by Swedish immigrants, the ECC values the Bible as the Word of God, the gift of God's grace and ever-deepening spiritual life that comes through faith in Jesus Christ, the importance of extending God's love and compassion to a hurting world, and the strength that comes from unity within diversity.

What makes the Covenant unique from other denominations is the fact that while it strongly affirms the clear teaching of the Word of God, it allows believers the personal freedom to have varying interpretations on theological issues that are not clearly presented in Scripture.

Note the statement of beliefs on the same page, which will occupy a separate post above.

The Social Media Are Very Social

 Mirthless Mark Schroeder's PR guy is no longer on LinkedIn,
but he remained on the website for a long time, even after
his new offense that earned him five years.

My first response to a news story is to check LinkedIn, which is an astonishing repository of professional resumes.

If someone on the staff of a church is arrested, the individual will usually be taken off the congregational website at once - or partially removed in the case of a WELS church. That sect does not even hide things well.

But LinkedIn often keeps a bio going for a time. Since people are boasting about their professional honors, the listings are a self-portrait. Hochmuth kept his profile active on LinkedIn for a long time, and he was on the Net a lot - even when forbidden. But now, he is no longer listed. If I have my dates right, Hochmuth was still posting his continuing work with WELS this year.

I often look at suggested connections, because LinkedIn has a way of finding everyone I have ever known, especially since unfriending and blocking - Facebook shunning tools - are not practiced, perhaps not even possible on LinkedIn.

Therefore, Facebook contacts show up as potential LinkedIn contacts. So do those I have answered on gmail. I have 15 pending at the moment, over 1000 contacts. Facebook - I have 1,400 there, and I am far more choosy on FB. Obnoxious quasi-Lutherans get themselves blocked.

As I wrote before, the social media are powerful tools. One leverages the others. In fact, they all leverage one another, thanks to the advent of giant relational databases. We have common, fixed entities that are unique identifiers. A phone number is a good entity. So is a home address. If a few identifiers are put together, that is better than a photo ID, which can be manufactured.

Computers are just tools. They do not do anything by themselves. They leverage whatever is happening with the user, whether foolish or wise. We can reach the world with the Word of God for almost no cost. Or - we can copy and paste Craig Groeschel sermons and post them as our own  - but why? - on our congregational websites. I used to do searches to see how many congregations and denominations were posting the same Groeschel sermon series on their websites.

WELS-LCMS congregations are eager to copy Rick Warren, Craig Groeschel, and other frauds. Here is a good way to test it. Copy the end of one sentence and the beginning of another, paste that into Google and see if it shows up elsewhere. Better yet, use Turn It In for a complete text match.

Some love the Fuller entertainment style. Others love the Romish entertainment style. What they copy is what they dearly love. I copy Luther, Chemnitz, and Melanchthon. I favor Jacobs and Krauth over Walther and Werning, because of the Chief Article.

Computers leverage the Means of Grace or false doctrine, spiritual wisdom or the foolishness of man.

Someone indulged this Roman Catholic lady
who wanted to dance the Biblical lesson,
but I forgot the lesson taught.
Perhaps - Oy!

From 2010 - Basic Facts about Groeschel and the WELS Connection - Team Glende and Mark Jeske

Glende and Ski plagiarized Groeschel all the time,
denied it,
and excommunicated the lawyer who caught them at their lies and plagiarism.
They also sued the husband of the woman staffer
they harassed - and shunned the couple.

How To Plagiarize Legally

Groeschel on Plagiarism

Screaming is a typical Reformed gimmick
to sell the Gospel, to be entertaining. Intrepid Lutherans on Groeschel.
Craig Groeschel preaching.

Craig Groeschel and Andy Stanley (Babtist) often conduct Catalyst conferences together. This is a fairly recent one.

Groeschel was born in 1967 in Texas, grew up in Oklahoma, attended a Methodist university (Oklahoma City U.) and pursued a degree in marketing. He attended Philips Seminary, which is affiliated with the ultra-liberal Disciples of Christ, the denomination of Jim Jones and Donald McGavran.

He married Amy in 1991. They have six children.

He was a United Methodist minister in 1995 when the Oklahoma City bomb blew up the federal building and severely damaged the nearby church where he worked.

In 1996 he began a church in a two-car garage, apparently because his denomination did not want him to start a mission church. Like Hybels of Willow Creek, he began with a marketing survey. The church grew rapidly and became Life Church - with the URL of LifeChurch.tv.

The New York Times reported:
He set up a website for people to post "secret confessions," an idea copied by Pastor Ski at The CORE.
The Catholic Church noted this new trend started by Groeschel.

USA Today says:

"Of the USA's 100 largest churches, 67% now have two or more sites and 60% of the 100 fastest-growing churches also have multiple sites, according to the annual listings of the USA's largest churches in Outreach magazine's October issue."

Glende's non-Lutheran and previously non-WELS congregational
home. Did he ever hear Lutheran doctrine taught?

The most innovative churches in America are:

· LifeChurch.tv (Edmond, OK) :: Craig Groeschel Team Glende luvved, luvved, luvved him.

· Mars Hill Church (Seattle, WA) :: Mark Driscoll. Team Glende wuz there.

· Granger Community Church (Granger, IN) :: Mark Beeson. Team Glende wuz there.

· Flamingo Road Church (Cooper City, FL) :: Troy Gramling

· Seacoast Church (Mt. Pleasant, SC) :: Greg Surratt

· Saddleback Church (Lake Forest, CA) :: Rick Warren

· Mosaic Church (Los Angeles, CA) :: Erwin McManus

· Fellowship Church (Grapevine, TX) :: Ed Young Jr.

· North Point Community Church (Alpharetta, GA) :: Andy Stanley. Team Glende wuz there.

· Willow Creek Community Church (South Barrington, IL) :: Bill Hybels WELS - huge fans of WC.

· National Community Church (Washington, DC) :: Mark Batterson - Bishop Katy pal.

One story says:

"Granger broke the rules when his church plastered mylamesexlife.com billboards around the local city, which stirred debate among Christians and a media storm. LifeChurch.tv went out of bounds when it launched the multi-site movement, which includes an internet campus for worship services. And Life Church's senior pastor, Craig Groeschel, broke the rules when he went into bars to meet "the sick" and tell them about Jesus."

Note - foward (sic) note at the bottom - WELS illiterates.
Does this sound like Ski cloning Groeschel.
They had this pathetic excuse teach the little ones at their WELS high school, too.
Ski, Glende, and Bishop Katy worked for Mark Jeske.
Ski was on the Church and Change board.

Groeschel motto: "In order to reach those that no one else is reaching, we will have to do things that no one else is doing," he said.

Groeschel began as a United Methodist minister but is an Evangelical Covenant minister now. The Evangelical Covenant church is Pietistic and related to the Swedish Augustana Synod which merged into the LCA in 1962.

Groeschel's thoughts about the United Methodists can be found linked here.

He claims 21,000 in attendance each week.

He may not have been the first to promote multiple sites, but he is known for them now. He began using video when his fourth child was born and he could not lead services.

Glende Hires Andy Stanley Disciple Jim Buske

Andy Stanley joined the massive Evangelical tidal wave
endorsing gay marriage.

Jim Buske posed with Andy Stanley at the Drive Conference.
Bishop Katie reported 8 other WELSians attending the coven.

Thirty pounds ago, Ski posed with Stanley.

Buske, Rev James G         St Peter - Appleton WI               02/16/2015
         Associate Pastor

Ski's Journal Still Online: Drive ’08 - Pastor’s Conference - North Point

Drive ’08 - Pastor’s Conference - North Point: 

WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW:

WHO WENT THAT YOU MIGHT KNOW?

Pastor Ski - St. Marcus - Milwaukee

Pastor John Parlow - St. Mark - Depere

Pastor Jim Buske - Lighthouse Youth Center - Milwaukee

HOW LONG WERE WE THERE?

May 3rd - May 7th

WHERE WAS THE CONFERENCE?

North Point (Babtist) Church, Alpharetta, GA

FAVORITE PART OF THE CONFERENCE:

Final Main Session with Andy Stanley

FAVORITE BREAK OUT SESSION:

A Healthy Staff Culture

- Jeff Henderson

FAVORITE QUOTE FROM DRIVE ‘08

“Leaders don’t get people, they attract them”

- Andy Stanley

DRIVE ’08 JOURNAL

Whew!  Day 5, it has been a heck of a road trip.  Today was the last day.  As you can see it was jam packed.  Before I get into Day 5... Let me just say this, “We should have sat in traffic to go to the Brown Bridge Campus!”  Buske & I were bitter.  Remember that I had said John got frustrated sitting the parking lot for 30 minutes?  So we went to dinner & called it a night.  Well, on Day 5 they showed the video for what happened at Brown Bridge.  Sweet cookout, the food looked awesome, games and fellowship outside (without snow or cold, I might add) and then a surprise JEFF FOXWORTHY show.  Man, how are they gonna top that next year?

Anyway, Day 5.  It is kind of crazy, just when you think it can’t get any better, it does.  Well, sort of.  In the morning they had Q & As for different groups.  I went to one that was about linking adults into small group studies.  It was well done, but for me it is difficult because everyone is looking for concrete answers on how to solve their own personal small group issues.  Many of the questions didn’t apply for us at St. Marcus.  However, the leaders were great and had a ton of info.

My final breakout session was entitled Parental Guidance Required.  The leader was Clay Scroggins.  He kind of looked like Steve James (he’s a St. Marcus member, Steve that is) but he talked with a Texas drawl.  He was high energy.  Based on his presentation and his passion for kids, I imagine that he rocked it out with kids.  The gist of his session was that what happens in the home has a greater influence on the spiritual life of children than what happens at church.  Based on that it becomes imperative that parents & the church partner.  Here are the steps that North Point uses:

1. 1.Inform Parents - inform them about what is being taught to their children.
2. 2.Partner With Parents - invite parents to be in an environment with their children.
3. 3.Equip Parents - provide parents with the tools to assist in the spiritual development of their children.

Pretty good points and a really good session.  

After that session we broke for lunch.  John took off for the airport, so Buske and I were on our own.  That might sound a little scary, but it is true.

The final Main Session with Andy Stanley was just phenomenal.  We began with awesome worship. Today though, they began with a Christian rapper, Toby Mac.  Our school kids would have loved it.  I’m not sure that they would have believed that it was church though.

When Andy began his session.  He started by saying that he was not going to follow his notes in the Drive ’08 Journal Book.  Instead he was going to do something that he called, “Recent Random Thoughts On Church Leadership.”  He shared 5 points and 5 takeaways.  I think that he was at his absolute best this afternoon.  Here are the 5 point & takeaways:

1. 1.To reach people no one else is reaching we must do things no one else is doing.

Takeaway - Become preoccupied with those you haven’t reached as opposed to those you keep.  This is easier said than done.

Wow, it seems so simple.  And yet so hard.

2. 2.The next generation product almost never comes from the previous generation.

Takeaway - Be a student not a critic.

What more can be said?  How do we approach things?  When things are different & involve change are we scared?  Do we criticize or do we look to learn and implement?

3. 3.What do I believe is impossible to do in my field?  But if it could be done it would fundamentally change my business.

Takeaway - Pay attention to the people who are breaking the rules.

Crazy sounding isn’t it?  We can fight technology and change, but in the end it will pass us and we will become archaic and irrelevant.  Not our Message, but the manner in which we present it.  Who would have ever thought texting would be as big as it is?  How about multi-site church?  Video church?  These are all things that have changed how we worship.

4. 4.If we got kicked out & the board brought in a new CEO what would they do?  Why shouldn’t we walk out the door & then come back in & do it ourselves?

Takeaway - Acknowledge what is NOT working & own up to why you are unwilling to change it.

Some thoughts on this - rarely does the church (in general) get concerned about change until they run out of money.  What if we asked some questions before it was too late?

1. a.What’s in decline?
2. b.Where are we manufacturing energy? In other words pretending something is important.  An example would be if I continued to say that Bible Study was important, but never attended.  I’m blowing hot air, “manufacturing energy.”  I don’t believe that anyone wants to stand behind that or get involved in something like that.
3. c.Finally, when are we going to unearth all underlying assumptions?  Sometimes, what we assume, is not the reality.  Are we willing to dig to find out the truth or are we happy with assuming? 
5. 5.When your memories exceed your dreams the end is near.

Takeaway - Don’t let success or momentum overshadow your vision.  Keep the out front.

How quickly can we be satisfied?  How often do we look at things and say, “Well, it’s not great but it is better than such and such church.” Scary, but we sometimes fool ourselves into thinking like this.  Some questions to ponder:

1. a.What the burden on your heart? (sic, yo)
2. b.What breaks your heart?

That was it.  After that Andy just ended and prayed for all the people there & for there (sic) ministries.  As you can see from the pictures above, Buske & I got to get a picture with Andy, pretty cool.  He is way down to earth.  His wife Sandra was there also and she is just great.  We actually got to talk to her a little more than Andy.  You also notice John with the North Point member who played Bender in one of their sermon series called “Twisted”.  The series was all about how Satan twists God’s Word.  Finally, there is a photo of Buske & Todd Fields.  I’m a little bitter about that one, but you’ll need to ask me why.

Thanks to everyone who read this while I was gone.  Be looking for some cool stuff that we will be implementing at St. Marcus, especially in Sunday Night.  Thanks also for all the patience.  Writing this thing mostly between 1 AM & 2 AM means that there are probably a ton spelling and grammar mistakes.  I can’t wait to see you guys on Sunday.  Check out the Picture Page for some added photos from Drive ’08.

I’m out!

Want to be a leader in WELS?
Get trained by Babtists
and abuse women staffers,
then sue their husbands for being outraged.

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Febreze

2 years ago

The WELS COP will hunt down and find out who attends the Intrepid Lutheran conference and therefore put them on a, uh, let's just say, "watch" list. But when a WELS pastor wants to go down and learn from people who don't believe in the means of grace, then they will be defended and promoted.