Consenting Adults

"Hi. I am the former Archbishop of Milwaukee. I was the featured speaker at Wisconsin Lutheran College."

brucefoster has left a new comment on your post "STS Union Service Getting More Interesting":

Do you have additional information on Archbishop Weakland? Calling him a pedophile seems a stretch. The only reported fornication was with a 27 year old man. Mortal sin yes, Pedophile no.

***

GJ - Here is one link about Weakland. The author is a conservative, pro-life Roman Catholic. I doubt he would invite Weakland to speak anywhere.

Here is a second, even more hostile response to Weakland. And I quote:

Along with Cardinal Bernardin of Chicago, Archbishop Weakland has led the push for a far more distinctively "American Church", as independent as possible from Rome. Associated with this 'push' have been Weakland's highly controversial policies and views on abortion, homosexuality, AIDS education, sex education, clerical pedophilia and feminism. Presumably these developments would make the American Church more American. That it would also be less Catholic is equally clear. Whether it would be Catholic at all remains an open question. That is what makes Archbishop Weakland's invitation to Australia - even to a liturgical convention - more puzzling. That the invitation will be construed as an act of support for him and of his less than solidarity with the Holy See can hardly be questioned.

From the same source:

Less than a month later, Milwaukee's diocesan paper, the Catholic Herald reported the Archbishop's views on clerical pedophilia (May 26, 1988): "Not all adolescent victims are so innocent. Some can be sexually very active and aggressive and often quite streetwise. We frequently try such adolescents for crimes as adults at that age." The prosecutor of the Fr Pecore case, Milwaukee's Assistant District Attorney, criticised the Archbishop for perpetuating the "victim-must-share-the-blame syndrome."

In spring 1989 Weakland called on all archdiocesan schools to teach students how to use condoms as part of an AIDS education program. Despite the U.S. Bishops' statement that "teaching on chastity, not condoms" was the appropriate response to AIDS, the Archbishop retained the condom policy. He also approved a graphic sex education program "Valuing your Sexuality" which teaches 6th-9th grade students, for example, that "There is no right and no wrong" when it comes to contraception, abortion or sex before marriage. All of Milwaukee's Catholic schools are required to provide AIDS and sex education on the above lines to retain diocesan accreditation.

In a published interview in the Milwaukee Sentinel (May 21, 1990) headlined "Weakland: Pro-choice could be OK", the Archbishop replied to a question on whether a person could be a good Catholic and hold a pro-choice view about abortion: "Yes. There are possibilities there. One could reconcile their stance with a Church position. I think that is a possibility."

Weakland is known for saying that children had sex with adults because the children wanted that activity. That could only come from a profoundly disturbed man - just the guy to speak at a public forum sponsored by Wisconsin Lutheran College (WELS). Of course, WELS went into damage control right away. They claimed it was not a public function, even though it was a public forum, a series of lectures which included other Roman Catholic priests. Also, WLC is not a WELS college when WELS wants to disavow anything (like Charis or Church and Change).

I once held the publicity brochure from WLC in my hand. It was not a "private luncheon for a few," as they tried to claim. If it had been, the apostasy was the same, as everyone realizes.

Exactly how this developed is difficult to tell. One does not just bump into an Archbishop at the YMCA and invite him over for a carefully orchestrated public forum. Considerable effort went into this shameful debacle. It not only compromised the Lutheran position on the Antichrist, but also managed to include the worst of all Roman Catholic prelates (except perhaps the San Franscisco apostate).

The ELS was silent, as always. The ELS only disciplines those who disagree with WELS.

I have a question for those who act shocked and doubtful every time I post some well known information - Would you want Weakland speaking at your congregation? More importantly - Would you want those WELS leaders who invited him and lied about the event to speak at your church? Would you like the ELS leaders who stifled themselves to serve you Holy Communion while clearly and openly despising sound doctrine?

Women Leading in Worship: ELS and WELS

"Let's just say it never happened. Everyone behind me? Shake on it."


jeremy has left a new comment on your post "STS Union Service Getting More Interesting":

Please substantiate your claim that there have been women leading worship at Trinity Chapel at Bethany Lutheran College. As a recent graduate of the college, I find this hard to believe, unless it's practice has changed in the past few months.

***

GJ - I am glad to repeat what is public knowledge. Professor Kuster organized a chapel service at Bethany around 1996 where women were the lectors. There was a fuss about it, so Bethany said, "If the seminary objects, we won't do it again." Notice the patronizing tone. The WELS/ELS approach about their depredations is to say, "For those who are weak in faith, we will abstain for their sakes." Very thoughtful.

The practice stopped after Kuster's experiment. But that was just the first attempt. More will come in the future, perhaps more from WELS. See below.

WELS? According to my source, who works in the prison system, once as a guard over WELS DP Ed Werner--A WELS DP in state prison? Yes--James P. Tiefel organized a chapel service at Mequon with young women as lectors. The former prison guard was a student there and an eye-witness. But wait, there is more.

James P. Tiefel arranged the pan-denominational worship conference at Carthage College (ELCA) where women taught men. Same difference. Then there is the Church and Change hive meetings, where ministry teams (men and women) teach. The ELS has not been known to object to this, to Church and Change, or anything else of substance.

Now there are women giving communion. I do not know the whole story, which is just more of the same anyway. The WELS approach is that it is not wise, not that it is wrong. The ELS is a little antsy about it.

Watch what Team Kelm is doing in WELS and you will see the future of the Wisconsin Sect and the Little Sect on the Prairie.

The America I Love

The story below is "The Mail" from John Mooy, of Interlochen, Michigan, about his father mailman Nat Mooy (1905-1985).


World Net Daily ^ | 10/13/2006 | John MooY


Posted on 12/25/2007 6:34:12 PM PST by clilly54


The original server has been overwhelmed, so I'm using the Fark mirror to post. Watch out, the comments can get a little on the wild side, as most of the members are younger. Still worth posting.

'It was your dad that answered all those letters that the kids wrote to Santa every year'

Background: Tim Russert's Wisdom of Our Fathers has hundreds of stories men and women tell about their fathers, including the one below. It's a remarkable book--to learn more, see my co-authored column America's Father Hunger (World Net Daily, 10/13/06).

The story below is "The Mail" from John Mooy, of Interlochen, Michigan, about his father mailman Nat Mooy (1905-1985).

"As a young boy, I sometimes traveled the country roads with my dad. He was a rural mail carrier in southwestern Michigan, and on Saturdays he would often ask me to go on the route with him. I loved it. Driving through the countryside was always an adventure. There were animals to see, people to visit, and freshly-baked chocolate-chip cookies if you knew where to stop, and Dad did. We made more stops than usual when I was on the route because I always got carsick, but stopping for me never seemed to bother Dad.

"In the spring, Dad delivered boxes full of baby chicks. Their continuous peeping could drive you crazy, but Dad loved it. When the peeping became too loud to bear, you could quiet them down by trilling your tongue and making the sounds of a hawk. When I was a boy it was fun to stick your fingers through one of the holes in the side of the cardboard boxes and let the baby birds peck on your finger. Such bravery!

"On Dad's final day of work on a beautiful summer day, it took him well into the evening to complete his rounds because at least one member of each family was waiting at their mailbox to thank him for his friendship and his years of service. 'Two hundred and nineteen mailboxes on my route,' he used to say, 'and a story at every one.' One lady had no mailbox, so Dad took the mail in to her every day because she was nearly blind. Once inside, he read her mail and helped her pay her bills. And every Thursday he read her the local newspaper.

"Mailboxes were sometimes used for things other than mail. One note left in a mailbox read, 'Nat, take these eggs to Marian; She's baking a cake and doesn't have any eggs, and don't stop to talk to Archie!' Mailboxes might be buried in the snow, or broken, or lying on the ground, but the mail was always delivered. On cold days Dad might find one of his customers waiting for him by the mailbox with a cup of hot chocolate. A young girl wrote letters but had no stamps, so she left a few buttons on the envelope in the mailbox; Dad paid for the stamps. One busy merchant used to leave large amounts of cash in his mailbox in a paper bag for Dad to take to the bank. On one occasion, the amount came to $32,000. It's hard to believe, but it's true.

"A dozen years ago, when I traveled back to my hometown on the sad occasion of Dad's death, the mailboxes along the way reminded me of some of his stories. I thought I knew them all, but that wasn't quite the case.

"As I drove through Marcellus, I noticed to aluminum lamp poles, one on each side of the street, reflecting the light of the late-afternoon summer sun. When my dad was around, those poles supported wooden boxes that were roughly four feet off the ground. One box was painted green, and the other was red, and each had a slot at the top with white lettering: SANTA CLAUS, NORTH POLE. For years children had dropped letters to Santa through those slots.

"I made a left turn at the corner and drove past the post office and across the railroad tracks to our house. Mom and I were sitting at the kitchen table when I heard footsteps on our porch. There, at the door, stood Frank Townsend, who had been Dad's postmaster and great friend for many years. So of course we all sat down at the table and began to tell stories.

"At one point Frank looked at me across the table with tears in his eyes. 'What are we going to do about the letters this Christmas?' he asked.

"The letters?"

"I guess you never knew."

"Knew what?"

"'Remember, when you were a kid and you used to put your letters to Santa in green and red boxes on Main Street? It was your dad that answered all those letters that the kids wrote every year.'

"I just sat there with tears in my eyes. It wasn't hard for me to imagine Dad sitting at the old oak table in our basement reading those letters and answering each one. I have since spoken with several of the people who received Christmas letters during their childhood, and they told me how amazed they were that Santa had know so much about their homes and families.

"For me, just knowing that story about my father was the gift of a lifetime."

STS Union Service Getting More Interesting

Dean Wenthe, President of Concordia Seminary, Ft. Wayne


LCMS News Blog

President Dean Wenthe addressed about three dozen students on Thursday, December 13th, at one of the seminary's "Fireside Chats." The topic for discussion was relationships with other Lutheran and Christian church bodies.

Wenthe began the evening by indicating his relief to be back at the seminary after spending several days with the presidents of other Christian seminaries from across the United States. While the conference as a whole was good, sola Scriptura was not the chant of all who attended.

He also shared good news of two recent donations totaling $1 million toward the seminary's library expansion project.

Eventually, the topic that was on the minds of most was brought up - the Society of the Holy Trinity's (STS) retreat held on the CTS campus in August. Wenthe described the two stipulations set down by the seminary in order for STS to host its retreat there.

1) No women would be allowed to preach in Kramer Chapel

2) The STS would have to abide by the confessional principles of the LCMS.

Wenthe indicated that confusion happened in the latter stipulation. Frank Senn of the STS was aware of the backlash that could result from celebrating a Eucharist sponsored by the ELCA at an LCMS seminary, so an LCMS pastor from Arizona welcomed all to the table in the name of his "hosting" LCMS congregation. Wenthe made clear that the LCMS pastor accused of unionism was called to repentance by his district president.

Here are some of the more memorable quotes made by President Wenthe:

This is a "mistake we've learned from."

We will be "very reluctant in the future to have a non-LCMS group on campus."

"The Bible is inerrant. Our prudence isn't."

The money is beneficial, but it is not worth having a police force. (paraphrase)

The STS members are "sincere, suffering people."

The STS should not have unionistic services. (paraphrase)

The STS should be at our symposia...as evangelism prospects more than as colleagues. (paraphrase)

The key issue in this situation is the type of confessional subscription - quia or quatanus. (paraphrase)

We "weren't as clear as we could have been."

We are concerned about pastors who spend more time online than with their people. (paraphrase)

***

GJ - STS stands for Society for the Holy Trinity. The name is Latin, to impress the members, who probably know as much Latin as my two Shelties.

One item omitted from this update is the participation of a WELS pastor in this union (LCMS-ELCA-WELS) feminist service. A female pastor also led this Holy Communion service.

Neither point is a precedent in WELS. Wisconsin Lutheran College had a series of Roman Catholic priests giving special public lectures. The keynote speaker was the pedophile Archbishop Weakland, who also got himself embroiled in being blackmailed before he was given the boot. That is the kind of talent treasured by WELS leaders. Before that, Mequon Professor James P. Tiefel (GA Pope) had a Roman Catholic lecturing at his union worship conference.

WELS and the Little Sect on the Prairie have had women leading worship at the Mequon chapel (I am told) and at Bethany's Chapel. The Roman Catholic-feminist efforts in the ELS and WELS have provoked hardly a whisper.

This remains a major issue in the LCMS.

Note the name Frenk Senn. He was the ELCA seminary professor at LST Chicago who promoted high church services. He was booted out, surprisingly enough and took a parish.

KoKoMo Justification

Pastor plays the clown to teach about Christ
Associated Press
Dec. 25, 2007 09:16 AM

TAMPA, Fla. - The clown walked into church like he owned the place.

KoKoMo stood proudly in the sanctuary of Carrollwood Baptist, his huge white shoes planted firmly, his head-to-toe sequins glimmering, his nose and wig as red as a Christmas bow.

It was no joke. KoKoMo was decked out for God.

The Rev. Tom Rives adopted his alter ego about 35 years ago and has used it ever since. The message delivered in his high-pitched voice is weighty for a clown: It is of love and salvation.

Rives believes clowning is a means to teach about Christ. "People who wouldn't talk to a preacher will talk to a clown," he says.

KoKoMo and a troupe of clown friends have also shown up at prisons, hospitals, fairs and shopping malls here. The King's Clowns, as they call themselves, aim to proselytize while entertaining, disarming their audiences with their silly characters.

Carrollwood's sanctuary is dotted this night with red and white poinsettias and rows of chairs filled with people. Out of sight, Rives and 10 other clowns gather in a circle while the pastor prays.

"Father, may the message get across," he says in a deep voice with a slight Southern drawl.

Within moments, Rives appears before the congregants, his face caked in white, a tiny blue hat perched crookedly on his head.

"Hi!" he squeals. "I'm KoKoMo the Clown!"

What follows is an hour-long series of skits performed by the clowns, each with a Christmas theme and a Christian message: Be thankful. Honor Christ daily. Remember it is more blessed to give than receive.

In between acts, KoKoMo enlists the help of children to pull off magic tricks. He transforms a giant playing card into one displaying an image of Christ. A stuffed dove is brought to life. A little girl's jaw drops when KoKoMo turns numerous colored scarves into one multicolored piece of fabric.

Vicki Musser, 50, who came to watch the clowns' show, said children and adults alike can take away something positive.

"It's not so formal in this kind of service. You can relax a little more," she said. "And I think they can understand a little better."

The act was born in Tennessee around 1970, when Rives was new to ministry and attended a workshop sponsored by Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey clowns. He never expected to pair his work with his love of the circus, but before long, it just made sense.

Rives sometimes incorporates clown skits in his regular services. A couple of times a year, there's a full clown service, and the troupe regularly visits other places.

Clowning, the 61-year-old pastor says, has allowed him to reach people who otherwise would not be reached. Some have accepted Christ. Others leave with questions about their faith. And many simply experience an innocent joyfulness the clowns see as an expression of Christ's love.

"You can be at a red light dressed as a clown and the people next to you will just be smiling and waving," said Robin Singleton, 45, who has been performing as Skittles for two years while wearing a rainbow-colored jumpsuit and wig.

Rick Racki, aka Riff-Raff, the troupe's only hobo clown, said the outfits make people more receptive to a spiritual message.

"There's something inside them that just opens up," the 43-year-old said. "They're more open. They're less afraid."

When the skits have ended, the clowns have stopped making balloon animals and no one else asks to compare the size of their shoes, Rives walks silently to his office and drapes his costume over a mannequin. The show is over, but his work is never done.


***

GJ - Clowning around is typical of the Reformed perspective. The Word alone does not have power. The Gospel must be made attractive, appealing, or entertaining.

A recent example is St. John's, Ellisvile, Missouri. Years of Church Growth doctrine have led up to a disgraceful and blasphemous video, still being shown on this link.

Wherever Lutherans are trying to entertain, amuse, or market themselves, be assured that the pastor has been trained at Fuller or Willow Creek. More importantly, the pastor can easily be identified as anti-Lutheran, anti-Means of Grace, anti-efficacy of the Word.

Merry Christmas to Our Military

I have the honor of teaching many people in our military. Some are stationed in Yuma, a few in Tucson and Phoenix. Many take courses online.

Thanks to GI benefits, many can complete a college education in the service or afterwards.

Merry Christmas to all those who service in our armed forces, and to their families. They sacrifice in so many ways, something deeply felt during Christmas.

Christmas Sermon

The Nativity by Federico Barocci (c. 1535-1612)

KJV Isaiah 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. 3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. 4 For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian. 5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire. 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

KJV Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. 2 (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) 3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. 4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) 5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. 6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. 7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. 8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. 9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, 14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.

Christmas

The Hymn #87
The Invocation p. 15
The Confession of Sins
The Absolution
The Introit p. 16
The Gloria Patri
The Kyrie p. 17
The Gloria in Excelsis
The Salutation and Collect p. 19
The Epistle and Gradual Isaiah 9:2-7
The Gospel Luke 2:1-14
Glory be to Thee, O Lord!
Praise be to Thee, O Christ!
The Nicene Creed p. 22
The Sermon Hymn #102
The Sermon
The Prince of Peace

The Offertory p. 22
The Hymn #94
The Preface p. 24
The Sanctus p. 26
The Lord's Prayer p. 27
The Words of Institution
The Agnus Dei p. 28
The Nunc Dimittis p. 29
The Benediction p. 31
The Hymn #646

Prophesies Fulfilled – The Prince of Peace

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

A layman interested in theology phoned me recently. We talked about prophesies in the Bible and many other topics.

The scoffers who pretend to know the Bible claim all prophesies are about the immediate future. Their real message was that the Bible was a man-made book and could never have something miraculous within it: nothing divine, nothing beyond the realm of human reason.

The Old Testament is not a monument to a forgotten past but the cradle of all Christian promises. One indication is the number of Jews who have become Christians in spite of rabbinical and family opposition. I recall vividly how the liberal Old Testament scholars (nominal Christians, genuine Unitarians) wrote that we must see the Old Testament the way Jews did, without any Christian assumptions. All my life I have encountered people raised in Judaism who became Christians. I know the opposition they encountered. Yet at some point they saw how Jesus fulfilled all the Old Testament promises.

The Isaiah passages are quite astonishing.

KJV Isaiah 7:10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying, 11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. 12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD. 13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Ahaz refused to accept a miraculous sign from God. In reality, he refused to obey a command, since this was God speaking in the imperative mood – “Ask.” God was commanding, not suggesting. God gave Ahaz a sign – Behold a Virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

There are at least three things to note here:
1. The miraculous sign comes from the Lord himself. This shows us how important it is.
2. A Virgin shall conceive. This is the bugbear of all liberals. The RSV changed the wording to “a young woman.” If someone refuses to believe in the Two Natures of Christ, this passage must be twisted into something within human experience. The Hebrew word does mean virgin, just as our word maiden has the sense of “young woman” but primarily “virgin.” A maiden voyage and a maiden speech exemplify what maiden means in the primary sense. So it is with almah, Hebrew for virgin, young woman.
(To this day, a Jewish wedding is completed when the couple is ushered into a room and the door closed for 10 minutes. According to Jewish tradition, if a woman is alone with a man, she is “married.” Therefore, it was always important not to compromise a young woman before marriage.)
3. His name will be Immanuel, God with us. No king of Israel was called God with us, but the name is perfect for Jesus.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

One never finds a child actually becoming a ruler as a baby, yet Jesus was born the Savior. For centuries people who believed in Him were justified by faith, like Abraham, the father of faith, who believed and was counted as righteous. (Romans 4)

Gibbons (Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire) does describe an ancient king crowned before birth. The soothsayers predicted that the queen would give birth to a son, so they placed a crown where they thought his head would be, “and paid homage to their insensible and invisible sovereign.”

Infant kings have potential power, but no real power. Regents are appointed to exercise royal power. Jesus was king at birth, Savior before birth. The mystery of the Incarnation is this – the Son of God existed from the beginning. The Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament was the Son of God before the Incarnation. When the Virgin Mary conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit, the Son of God took on our human nature: God with us.

Every believer must realize that the Son of God became Incarnate to benefit us, so we would see and hear God. He became Incarnate to die for our sins and rise as the firstfruits of all who would rise from the dead.

If someone can get around the government being placed on the shoulders of this little baby, they must still deal with the everlasting expansion of his government. Israel was pursued by Satan from the moment God promised a child would crush his head (Genesis 3:15, which makes no sense, apart from Christ). By the time Jesus was born, only a stump remained of Israel. The crown had passed from Jewish rulers to a non-Jew, Herod. All the conditions of the Old Testament were fulfilled. Soon after the death and resurrection of Christ, Jerusalem was captured by Rome (70 AD). About 60 years later, Jews revolted again and were expelled from Jerusalem by Roman decree. The nation of Israel did not exist again until 1948.

In contrast, the Christian faith has expanded throughout the world and is the world’s most populous religion. Islam is second. The Gospel rain moves on, as Luther said. Believing Christians are few in America and Europe, but the growth of the faith in Africa and China is amazing. Many religions have risen up and still exist in distant corners of the world. Christianity has defied persecution and affluence (which is far worse than persecution) to extend throughout the world.

his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

How could a human king be called The Mighty God? This one title is related to Immanuel, a different word, the same concept. One of the greatest blessings of the Word is seeing how the Holy Spirit teaches us the divine, revealed truths. How do we know that the Savior is human and divine, the Two Natures united in the One Person, Christ? We know this from dozens of passages throughout the Bible.

At times people have been troubled to learn that the Savior was a human being. They did not want their Savior to be born of a woman, suffer, and die. Countless passages reveal that Jesus never lost His human nature, even after the resurrection.

Now we have people who will allow for Jesus being a teacher, as long as He is just an ordinary man. The pastor of St. John’s, Ellisville, Missouri (LCMS) portrays Jesus as a demanding simpleton, someone endlessly annoyed by people giving Christmas gifts. Thomas Jefferson saw Jesus as a moral leader only. His Jefferson Bible selected the parts of the New Testament he liked and eliminated the rest. (Give him points for honesty.) His status as a heretic moved him to promise “church and state separation” because the states did not trust him. They did not want their established churches (different in each state) to have any interference from the federal government. Yes, indeed, the states could and did define voters as communing members of one denomination. Some even had religious definitions for state office holders, at first.

Someone who denies the divinity of Christ has separated himself from the Christian faith. One can be a member in name and yet not be a believer. “A mouse may be in a cookie jar, but that does not make him a cookie.” Corrie Ten Boom.

Losing faith can be very gradual. The Lutheran Confessions are clear in pointing out the dangers of associating with false doctrine, the dangers of becoming indifferent about sound doctrine. That is why it is good to have turmoil about the teachings of the Bible. If nothing disturbed our thoughts, we would become more and more numb to what mattered.

The Prince of Peace

What does peace mean in the Bible? The primary meaning does not concern war or a lack of war. (Nominal Christian peace groups are always appeasement groups.)

Peace is the result of forgiveness, justification by faith, and salvation. Our natural inclination is toward justification by works. American Protestants have all come from a Pietistic background, which measures people by what they do. Old-fashioned Pietism banned tobacco, alcohol, card playing, theater of any kind, cosmetics, and other visible signs of the faith.

Pietism was keen on missions and good works. In both areas the leaders said, “Let’s not fight about doctrine so we can work together.” And they did. World-wide enterprises began as cooperative ventures. Lutherans often joined the Reformed in these efforts. Prussia commanded that the Reformed and the Lutherans unite in one church. This resulted in one Reformed church, not one Lutheran church. Some Lutherans escaped and came to America. The Loewe missionaries asked the Perry County Lutherans to join them in what became the Missouri Synod. They were against unionism. The Wisconsin Synod began as an indifferent, unionistic group. Walther and Hoenecke helped them wise up. Now Missouri and WELS work with ELCA on all kinds of union projects, from Lutheran World Relief to evangelism and worship. The ELS is mute.

The trouble with Pietism is not just with the end result – Unitarianism. The real trouble is with any thought process where judgment is based on works. “If thou, O Lord, shouldst mark iniquity, O Lord, who shall stand?” That question from the Psalms (used in funerals) should remind us of the difficulty of justification by works. When a law requirement is added to justification by faith, the law dominates and destroys peace.

Peace cannot come from the Law, because the Law always condemns. Jesus is the Prince of Peace because His Gospel promises are based upon His merits, not ours. When the Body and Blood of Christ are distributed, no merit is required from the recipients. Instead, we receive the merit of Christ, the righteousness of the Prince of Peace. Holy Communion is an instrument of God’s grace, the Word in visible form. As Luther said, do not concentrate on the elements but on the Word – Given and shed for you, for the forgiveness of sin.

For the peace that passes all understanding.

For the life of the world.

Amen.

PM Popes

Prime Minister Tony Blair Waited to Convert So He Could Lead Pro-Abortion Ideologues


Criticism For Blair Over Conversion
Updated:19:21, Saturday December 22, 2007

Tony Blair's conversion to Catholicism has been criticised by commentators who argue his views as PM were at odds with church teachings.

Tony Blair has met Pope BenedictMr Blair was welcomed into the Roman Catholic church by the Archbishop of Westminster, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor - leader of the Roman Catholics in England and Wales.

Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor welcomed the politician's personal decision, which culminated in the ceremony at the chapel of the Archbishop's House in Westminster.

He said: "For a long time he has been a regular worshipper at Mass with his family and in recent months he has been following a programme of formation to prepare for his reception into full communion."

The move comes after years of speculation that Mr Blair, whose wife Cherie and four children are Catholic, would convert from Anglicanism after he resigned from Number 10 in June.

Converting while in office would have caused him problems in connection with issues such as abortion, contraception, homosexuality and faith schools.

The Society for the Protection of Unborn Children (SPUC) reacted with surprise to the news.

Christmas Song

Pope John the WELS Confessor

Merry Christmas to you,
In the ELS you're through,
We'll just take your members,
And property too.

Lutheran Books, II

Shepherd and sheep, by Norma Boeckler

Part I

The essentials are:
A Bible in the King James tradition. I use BibleWorks, which has the original text and dozens of translations. A good book answering the issue of Biblical problems is: William Arndt, Bible Difficulties and Seeming Contradictions.
The Concordia Triglotta.
Luther's Sermons (Seven-volumes for about $35).

The list above should be interpreted as, "How can I call myself a Lutheran if I do not own and read these on a regular basis?"

Part II

There are two ways to become grounded in the Patristic era, the Church Fathers (not to be confused with synodical founders). The Book of Concord assumes the reader will want to see how the Confessors agree with the early theologians, now ignored by the synodical apostate leaders.

Ach, Du Lieber Augustine
Augustine is the most important theologian, the best theologian of the Patristic era. He wrote The City of God when Eternal Rome fell to the barbarians. The City of God is an encyclopedia of theology, to be read and appreciated in small sections. Can anyone from Fuller or Willow Creek say this:

Two Cities have been formed by two loves: the earthly by the love of self, even to the contempt of God; the heavenly by the love of God, even to the contempt of self. The former, in a word, glories in itself, the latter in the Lord. For the one seeks glory from men; but the greatest glory of the other is God, the witness of conscience. The one lifts up its head in its own glory; the other says to its God, “Thou art my glory, and the lifter up of mine head.” City of God

Augustine was the most significant good theologian in the formation of Luther, who was an Augustinian monk after all. All of Western literature relies on Augustine. Someone who does not want to buy and read City of God could read his Confessions instead. By good theologian, I mean that Augustine had more Gopspel in his works than the others. Those who venerate recent synodical writers (some still alive, but worshiped as gods) should note Augustine's Retractions and his desire than nothing he wrote be taken seriously if it disagreed with Scripture.

An English edition of the Nicene Fathers can be obtained for very little. Classics are inexpensive. Rotten books cost a bundle. The danger in having a big, heavy set with small print is the confusion of owning with reading. Many own without reading. Another solution is having a CD version, for text searching. There is no substitute for reading from a book and having a doctrinal crisis to motivate the study.

Zwei, Du Lieber Chemnitz
Chemnitz is the second way to learn the Patristic Fathers. His Two Natures of Christ is one of the finest works ever written. Chemnitz converted Roman Catholic theologians by showing them that the Wittenberg party was the one confessing the truths of the Word and the Church Fathers. No theologian is correct all his life in all his writings (pace, Werning, et al.) The small c catholic tradition is that body of theology expressing the pure Word of God. Unfortunately, devious Lutheran seminary professors are using Patristics to seduce future Lutheran pastors into Eastern Orthodoxy or Roman priestcraft. If someone wants to attend a high-price Lutheran seminary, he should go forewarned and prepared.

I would pick Two Natures as the best Chemnitz book to study (if there was only one choice). The Enchiridion is a small book written to prepare seminarians for their exams. Examination of the Council of Trent is a personal favorite for many reasons. There is no better way to find the answer to all Roman Catholic claims than Examination. When I wrote Catholic, Lutheran, Protestant, I found that the modern Catholics were arguing just as they did during Chemnitz' time.

Anything by Chemnitz is excellent. I also recommend Jack Preus' The Second Martin. Too few Lutherans know anything about Chemnitz.

Pilgrim's Progress
For centuries, Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress was considered the most important English publication, apart from the KJV. The allegory was translated into 100 languages and remains constantly in print. The author was not a Lutheran but he said that Luther's Galatians was his most-read book, except for the Bible. I wonder today how many ordained Lutherans today could call Galatians an ever-read, let alone a most-read book!

This is a book available in many editions. I got one from Folio and mailed it back, then bought the Limited Editions version for less money. Small children will love the children's editions with pictures. There is also a video. The humor and wisdom of the book are unique.

Bunyan was almost always in jail for being a Nonconformist preacher. His individual publications were so popular, nevertheless, that scholars think some titles disappeared simply from all the copies being worn out. Bunyan did more for the Gospel in his cell than all the cell groups started by Fuller Seminary graduates of WELS, Missouri, and the Little Sect on the Prairie.

Prophetic Utterance by Steve Kurtzahn, WELS

A soft, warm, harmless sheep wants to love and be loved.

"But as you can see from the above references, ever so slyly, like a wolf in sheep's clothing, Valleskey is promoting the Church Growth Movement. [emphasis in original] I will argue that with anyone. God forbid, but my guess would be the next such book out of WELS will be even more CG oriented and even more blatant in its CG statements."

WELS Pastor Steve Kurtzahn, 1996, when he was still a Church of the Lutheran Confession (sic) pastor. He started out WELS, left for the CLC (sic), and went back to WELS.

So why did Kurtzahn denounce the false doctrine of the president of Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary, Mequon, and then join WELS? Was he trying to out-Preus Jack and Robert Preus? Answer: - The Greeks have a saying: "A chameleon can turn every color except white."

KJV Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Unionism Becomes Apostasy

Unionism Turns a UOJ Stormtrooper into a Rainbow Warrior: "Like, peace, man."

Are You Going To Believe Me Or Your Lying Eyes?
"CHIEFS CONFER: Waiting their turn to speak at a recent Lutheran leadership consultation are Dr. Carl Mischke, president of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church...Bohlmann...and ELCA Bishop Herbert W. Chilstrom. At the July 18-20 event in Snowbird, Utah, in the Wasatch Mountains, 130 Lutheran leaders gathered to articulate a 'vision of leadership' for their respective church bodies." The Lutheran, (ELCA) September 4, 1991 p. 33.

ELCA's Martin Marty, Featured WELS Speaker
"Front row center, among the 231 ELCA and Episcopal bishops gathered for a 'class photo' of their historic first meeting to discuss full communion, are (from left) Martin Marty, Presiding Bishops Browning [Episcopal] and Anderson [ELCA], and Archbishop of Canterbury George Carey." The Lutheran, November, 1996

"Dear Friends, AAL is committed to helping Lutherans and assisting Lutheran congregations. That has long been a primary purpose of the organization, as stated in AAL's articles of incorporation. In pursuing this intention, we've often gathered information that helps us to better serve Lutherans and their institutions." Richard L. Gunderson, Church Membership Initiative, Narrative Summary of Findings, 1993, Aid Association for Lutherans, 4321 N Ballard Road, Appleton, WI, 54919-0001, 414-734-5721, June 30, 1993.

WELS and ELCA, Bosom Buddies
"To the reader: This binder contains a summary of activities and findings of the Church Membership Initiative funded by AAL. A meeting in February, 1993 at Orlando involving congregational participants and church executives was phase three. This summary focuses on the findings of phases one and two. As is the nature of such studies, emphasis is on research and statistical analysis. Such studies do provide helpful indicators. Such an approach, however, cannot directly reflect spiritual reality, which must remain with the judgment of those dispensing the means of grace. Phase four--utilization of information coming out of the first three phases--is open ended for whatever church body [ELCA, WELS, LCMS] will determine such use to be." Rev. Wayne Borgwardt, WELS, Church Membership Initiative, Narrative Summary of Findings, 1993, Aid Association for Lutherans, 4321 N Ballard Road, Appleton, WI, 54919-0001, June 30, 1993. Five copies at Martin Luther College (WELS). BV 4523 .C48 1993 c.5

"In 1970 there were 500,000 more baptized members of Lutheran congregations than was the case in 1990. The Church Membership Initiative project was undertaken to understand and address this decline... Contact: Rev. Mary Ann Moller-Gunderson, Executive Director, Division for Congregational Ministries, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, 8765 W Higgins Road, Chicago, IL, 60631, 312-380-2570; Rev. Lyle Muller, Executive Director, Board for Evangelism Services, The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, 1333 S Kirkwood Road, St. Louis, MO, 63122-7295, 314-965-9000; Rev. Wayne Borgwardt, Administrator for Worker Training, Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, 2929 N Mayfair Road, Milwaukee, WI, 53222, 414-256-3236; Mr. Douglas Olson, Aid Association for Lutherans, 4321 N Ballard Road, Appleton, WI, 54919, 414-734-5721." Church Membership Initiative, Narrative Summary of Findings, 1993, Aid Association for Lutherans, 4321 N Ballard Road, Appleton, WI, 54919-0001, June 30, 1993.

"The IMAGINE 2000+ A.D. symposium involved the gathering of 61 growing congregations to describe their ministry. The congregations were grouped with other congregations of similar size and ministry setting." Church Membership Initiative, Narrative Summary of Findings, 1993, Aid Association for Lutherans, 4321 N Ballard Road, Appleton, WI, 54919-0001, June 30, 1993. p. 12.

"Four people from each of 61 growing congregations gathered to share their congregational development experience, to react to the utility of toolbox items uncovered in Sections 2B and 2C above, and to exchange views with church body officials. Approximately 125 church body officials [ELCA, WELS, LCMS] and other guests observed these congregations and participated in the discussions." Church Membership Initiative, Narrative Summary of Findings, 1993, Aid Association for Lutherans, 4321 N Ballard Road, Appleton, WI, 54919-0001, June 30, 1993. p. 20.

"This does not mean that judicatory (ELCA synods, LCMS districts, WELS districts) and national expressions of the church bodies are not involved. They can play key roles in assisting congregations." Church Membership Initiative, Narrative Summary of Findings, 1993, Aid Association for Lutherans, 4321 N Ballard Road, Appleton, WI, 54919-0001, June 30, 1993. p. 5.

"In-person interviews were held with ELCA, LCMS and WELS national office personnel who are responsible for evangelism, outreach, North American activities, and ministries to people of color." Church Membership Initiative, Narrative Summary of Findings, 1993, Aid Association for Lutherans, 4321 N Ballard Road, Appleton, WI, 54919-0001, June 30, 1993. p. 5. "Congregational growth, stability, and decline patterns were analyzed for all Lutheran congregations within each of three church bodies (ELCA, LCMS, WELS)." Church Membership Initiative, Narrative Summary of Findings, 1993, Aid Association for Lutherans, 4321 N Ballard Road, Appleton, WI, 54919-0001, June 30, 1993. p. 9.

"Dr. Mann remarked, 'he doubted not that there was much good in the constitution of the Melanchthon Synod; but he would not eat poisoned bread, though there was much good flour in it.'"
F. Bente, American Lutheranism, 2 vols., The United Lutheran Church, Gen Synod, Gen Council, Un Syn in the South, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1919, II, p. 121.

Typical Snotty Unionist
Harkey: "We want love as much as orthodoxy, yes, a thousand times more than what some men call orthodoxy."
F. Bente, American Lutheranism, 2 vols., The United Lutheran Church, Gen Synod, Gen Council, Un Syn in the South, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1919, II, p. 121.

Bente Nails the Unionists
"In the Lutheran Observer, January 2, 1863, H. Harkey wrote: 'Some say that unity must precede union. But the Bible demands that we unite. Hence those who magnify these differences [among Lutherans] are the greatest sinners in the Church.' This has always been the view of the General Synod: union, irrespective of doctrinal differences...all endeavors at union which disregard the divine norm of Christian fellowship are anti-Scriptural."
F. Bente, American Lutheranism, 2 vols., The United Lutheran Church, Gen Synod, Gen Council, Un Syn in the South, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1919, II, p. 19.

WELS and LCMS Have Now United with the Reformed
"Unionism and indifferentism mark the character of the General Synod from its very beginning. And how could this have been otherwise? The un-Lutheran spirit of the General Synod was not so much acquired as inherited. The Pennsylvania Synod, while promoting the Pan-Lutheran union, was at the same time planning a union with the Reformed! In 1819 and 1822 resolutions were passed to this effect."
F. Bente, American Lutheranism, 2 vols., The United Lutheran Church, Gen Synod, Gen Council, Un Syn in the South, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1919, II, p. 20.

Bente Predicts Werning, Kent Hunter, Larry Olson, Paul Kelm, Wally Oelhaven, and the Jesus Birthday Party at Ellisville
"Wherever Lutherans unite with the Reformed, the former gradually sink to the level of the latter. Already by declaring the differences between the two Churches irrelevant, the Lutheran truths are actually sacrificed and denied. Unionism always breaks the backbone, and outrages the conscience, of true Lutheranism. And naturally enough, the refusal to confess the Lutheran truth is but too frequently followed by eager endorsement and fanatical defense of the opposite errors."
F. Bente, American Lutheranism, 2 vols., The United Lutheran Church, Gen Synod, Gen Council, Un Syn in the South, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1919, II, p. 68.

Quaint Remarks by What's-His-Name
"Dr. Luther, who, above others, certainly understood the true and proper meaning of the Augsburg Confession, and who constantly remained steadfast thereto till his end, and defended it, shortly before his death repeated his faith concerning this article with great zeal in his last Confession, where he writes thus: 'I rate as one concoction, namely, as Sacramentarians and fanatics, which they also are, all who will not believe that the Lord's bread in the Supper is His true natural body, which the godless or Judas received with the mouth, as well as did St. Peter and all [other] saints; he who will not believe this (I say) should let me alone, and hope for no fellowship with me; this is not going to be altered [thus my opinion stands, which I am not going to change]."
Formula of Concord, Epitome, Article VII, Lord's Supper, 33, Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 983. Tappert, p. 575.

"And all these are established by the words by which Christ has instituted it, and which every one who desires to be a Christian and go to the Sacrament should know. For it is not our intention to admit to it and to administer it to those who know not what they seek, or why they come."
Fifth Part, Of The Sacrament of the Altar, #2, Large Catechism, Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 753. Tappert, p. 447.

"And Paul commands that godless teachers should be avoided and execrated as cursed. Galatians 1:8; Titus 3:10. And 2 Corinthians 6:14 he says: 'Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers; for what communion hath light with darkness?'" Marks of Antichrist, 41, Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope, Concordia Triglotta, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 517. Tappert, p. 328. Galatians 1:8; Titus 3:10; 2 Corinthians 6:14.

WELS-ELCA-LCMS Joint Worship. Are You Going To Believe Me or Your Lying Ears? - Mischke
"A new sacred classical music radio program soon will be available to radio stations across the country. The hour-long, weekly program, called "Joy," is an inter-Lutheran project of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Lutheran Church Missouri Synod and the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. "Joy" will be produced by KFUO-FM in St. Louis and will be funded by Aid Association for Lutherans, a fraternal benefit society. 'I'm excited about being involved in this project which is the first joint venture into ministry that has ever been done by these three Lutheran churches,' said the Rev. Richard Jensen, a member of ELCA communications staff and the Joy Advisory Committee. 'Joy is a program of sacred music. The focus is on the classics of sacred Christian music..."
ELCA Newsbriefs, Christian News, 12-9-91, p. 2.

Charlton Heston, Husband of One Wife
"There is a 'method in our madness' in securing such a high profile speaker. Regardless of the value of the message such speakers always bring in the numbers. Generally speaking, they seem to double the attendance of a convention." [Having Charlton Heston speak at the WELS Lutherans for Life convention]
Rev. Robert Fleischmann, Commentary, National Director, WELS Lutherans for Life, 2949 N Mayfair Rd, Milwaukee, WI 53222 n.d.

The Spirit of ELCA
"Dedication: to a holy ministry, orthodox as Chemnitz, Calovius, Gerhard, and Krauth; spiritual and consecrated as Arndt, Spener, and Zinzendorf; active in the Master's service as Francke, Muhlenberg, Orberlin, and Passavant, this book is hopefully dedicated."
G. H. Gerberding, The Lutheran Pastor, Minneapolis: Augsburg Publishing House, 1902, p. 2.

True, But Who Agrees Today?
"Truthful separation is far better than dishonest union, and two churches are happier, and more kindly in their mutual relations, when their differences are frankly confessed, than when they are clouding with ambiguities and double meanings the real divergences."
Charles P. Krauth, The Conservative Reformation and Its Theology, Philadelphia: The United Lutheran Publication House, 1913 (first edition, 1871), p. 326.

"We have so much to learn from Fuller." - Mequon President Valleskey
"If one associates much with heretics, one finally also makes oneself partaker of their false doctrine, their lies, and their errors; for he who touches pitch soils his hands with it."
Martin Luther, What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., ed., Ewald Plass, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959, II, p. 646.

Mischke Said He Didn't Do Unionism - Do You Believe Him or Your Lying Eyes?
Pictured together: Rev. Carl Mischke (WELS), Rev. Ralph Bohlmann (LCMS), and Bishop Herbert Chilstrom (ELCA).
Lutheran Brotherhood, Bond, "Preparing the Church for the Next Century," Fall, 1991 68, p. 12.

WELS and LMCS Leaders Attended This Farce
"Four speakers prominent in the field of leadership research shared their perspectives. Frances Hesselbein of New York City, president and chief executive officer of the Peter F. Drucker Foundation for Nonprofit Management, spoke on 'The Challenge of Leadership.' She noted, 'The church shares the same bottom line with all voluntary and human service organizations: changed lives.'" [Note: CG enthusiasts love Drucker management books. The four leaders of the conference were: a woman, a CG icon (in the words of Rev. James Schaefer, NWL), an ultra-liberal Reformed theologian, and a historical-critical expert from an ELCA seminary, Trinity, which once boasted of Lenski and Leupold as professors.]
Lutheran Brotherhood, Bond, "Preparing the Church for the Next Century," Fall, 1991 68, p. 12.

"William McKinney, dean and professor of religion and society at Hartford (Connecticut) Seminary, disagreed with the popular view that conventional Protestant churches have moved from mainline to sideline." [Hartford is very Reformed and very liberal.]
Lutheran Brotherhood, Bond, "Preparing the Church for the Next Century," Fall, 1991 68, p. 12.

"George Barna of Glendale, Calif., president of the Barna Research Group, a marketing firm specializing in research for Christian churches and parachurch organizations, laid out 'The Context for Leadership' with rather challenging facts about the society the church faces today."
Lutheran Brotherhood, Bond, "Preparing the Church for the Next Century," Fall, 1991 68, p. 12.

"The Lutheran Leadership Consultation, facilitated by Lutheran Brotherhood in partnership with the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), the Lutheran-Church Missouri Synod (LC-MS) and the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS), was the first meeting of this type that included the three major Lutheran Churches as planners and participants." Lutheran Brotherhood, Bond, "Preparing the Church for the Next Century," Fall, 1991 68, p. 12. "Throughout the Consultation, Walter F. Taylor, Jr., Professor of New Testament at Trinity Lutheran Seminary in Columbus, Ohio, explored principles and examples of leadership in the Pauline epistles." [Trinity is an ELCA seminary which sponsored an insurance funded gay seminar.] Lutheran Brotherhood, Bond, "Preparing the Church for the Next Century," Fall, 1991 68, p. 13.

"Take the Church Membership Initiative, lavishly funded by the Aid Association for Lutherans. The 'Narrative Summary of Findings' and the 'Research Summary of Findings' (1993) reveal an approach both shallow and complacent. There is no interest at all in underlying theological maladies." Professor Kurt Marquart, "Church Growth" As Mission Paradigm, A Lutheran Assessment, Our Savior Lutheran Church, Houston: Luther Academy Monograph, 1994, p. 141f. "Its 'overall objective' is: 'To set in motion forces that will result in annual increases in the number of members of Lutheran congregations.' Why would any confessional Lutheran wish to 'set in motion forces' for 'annual increases in ELCA membership? The introductory page already alerts one to the hollowness of the talk about 'faithfulness to the substance of Lutheranism' (p. 3), by listing an ELCA official, a pastoress, as one of the sources of further information. 'Unchurched people feel good about their faith,' we are told, and the implication is that we should too."
Professor Kurt Marquart, "Church Growth" As Mission Paradigm, A Lutheran Assessment, Our Savior Lutheran Church, Houston: Luther Academy Monograph, 1994, p. 142.

"Are You Going To Believe Me Or Your Lying Eyes?" - Mischke
"The article in Christian News to which you refer escaped my attention until one of our other pastors called it to my attention soon after it appeared. Initially I even had difficulty relating to it. After thinking about it for a time I remembered that I was asked about a year ago whether the WELS would endorse or be in sponsor of such a program. My answer then was 'No" and still is. I have consistently taken the position with the fraternal benefits societies that 'pan-Lutheran' projects almost inevitably exclude us from participation because of our fellowship principles. The leadership of the fraternals has respected our position. So the statement by a member of the ELCA communications staff that this is the 'first joint venture into ministry' ever done by these three Lutheran churches is simply not factual. It has been called to the attention of those who made this statement." President Carl H. Mischke (WELS Synodical President), Letter to Pastor James Sherod, 1-3-92.

CG Gurus Forced Neuhaus into Becoming a Priest
"Then there is the church growth movement, which has made more devastating headway in LCMS than in ELCA (although it is evident enough in the latter). Today, it is said, Missouri has three seminaries-- St. Louis, Ft Wayne, and Fuller Seminary in California, the hothouse of church growth enthusiasms. The synodical and district mission offices are frequently controlled by church growth technocrats...But the idea that Word and Sacrament ministry is somehow validated by calculable results is utterly alien to the Lutheran Reformation...The triumph of style over substance, however, is all too evident in LCMS congregations that look like Baptists with vestments. As we have noted before, second-rate Lutherans make fourth-rate Baptists."
Rev. Richard Neuhaus, (ELCA at the time), Forum Letter, 338 E 19th Street New York, NY 10003 November 26, 1989 p. 2.

Joel Gerlach, No, Kent Hunter, I Mean, Ortiz
"Pastors become disciples so they can make disciples. As a proud Pentecostal I thought I had everything because I belonged to a Full Gospel church. Little did I know how much I had to learn until I came together with other pastors--Baptists, Presbyterians, Plymouth Brethren, and Catholics. As a proud Pentecostal I had to become a humble elder of the church."
Juan Carlos Ortiz, Call to Discipleship, Plainfield: Logos International, 1975, p. 100. (GJ - WELS now falsely and officially declares that the Great Commission is "to make disciples." Unionism creates liars who cannot stop with their cover-ups. They have to falsify the Bible, too.)

This Makes WELS Roman Catholic and Fuller-Willow Creekish
"The orthodox character of a church is established not by its mere name nor by its outward acceptance of, and subscription to, an orthodox creed, but by the doctrine which is actually taught in its pulpits, in its theological seminaries, and in its publications. On the other hand, a church does not forfeit its orthodox character through the casual intrusion of errors, provided these are combated and eventually removed by means of doctrinal discipline."
(A Brief Statement of the Missouri Synod's Doctrinal Position, 1932) Francis Pieper, The Difference Between Orthodox And Heterodox Churches, and Supplement, Coos Bay, Oregon: St. Paul's Lutheran Church, 1981, p. 2.

"Unionism is characterized by these marks: It fails to confess the whole truth of the divine Word; it fails to reject and denounce every opposing error; it assigns error equal right with truth and creates the impression of church fellowship and of unity of faith where they do not exist." (Wisconsin Synod, Prayer Fellowship, Tract No. 10, 1954)
Francis Pieper, The Difference Between Orthodox And Heterodox Churches, and Supplement, Coos Bay, Oregon: St. Paul's Lutheran Church, 1981, p. 64.

"We have no intention of yielding aught of the eternal, immutable truth of God for the sake of temporal peace, tranquility, and unity (which, moreover, is not in our power to do). Nor would such peace and unity, since it is devised against the truth and for its suppression, have any permanency. Still less are we inclined to adorn and conceal a corruption of the pure doctrine and manifest, condemned errors. But we entertain heartfelt pleasure and love for, and are on our part sincerely inclined and anxious to advance, that unity according to our utmost power, by which His glory remains to God uninjured, nothing of the divine truth of the Holy Gospel is surrendered, no room is given to the least error, poor sinners are brought to true, genuine repentance, raised up by faith, confirmed in new obedience, and thus justified and eternally saved alone through the sole merit of Christ." (Closing of Formula of Concord, Trigl. p. 1095)
Francis Pieper, The Difference Between Orthodox And Heterodox Churches, and Supplement, Coos Bay, Oregon: St. Paul's Lutheran Church, 1981, p. 65.

Reu - Marks of Unionism
"Here we discover the first mark of unionism: A difference in doctrine which hitherto has been regarded as divisive, is suddenly made to lose its divisive significance." (About the Augsburg Confession, Variata, Real Presence)
M. Reu, In the Interest of Lutheran Unity, Columbus: The Lutheran Book Concern, 1940, p. 19.

"The second mark of unionism, therefore, is this: Differences in doctrine are made to lose their divisive significance with a view to uniting hitherto separate churches." (about unification of all Protestant forces)
M. Reu, In the Interest of Lutheran Unity, Columbus: The Lutheran Book Concern, 1940, p. 19.

"The third mark of unionism, therefore, is this: A formula of unification is found which each of two hitherto separate churches may accept but which each of them interprets differently. An external bond is found for internally divided groups." (About Melanchthon using 1 Cor. 10:16 as the basis for uniting the Reformed and Lutherans, Luther's favorite text against the Reformed.)
M. Reu, In the Interest of Lutheran Unity, Columbus: The Lutheran Book Concern, 1940, p. 19. 1 Corinthians 10:16.

"Doctrinal indifference is at once the root of unionism and its fruit. Whoever accepts, in theory as well as in practice, the absolute authority of the Scriptures and their unambiguousness with reference to all fundamental doctrines, must be opposed to every form of unionism."
M. Reu, In the Interest of Lutheran Unity, Columbus: The Lutheran Book Concern, 1940, p. 20.

"We find this attitude of tolerance quite frequently among unionists. It is often used to assuage a troubled conscience, one's own as well as that of others; for the unionist declares that every one may continue to hold his own private convictions and merely needs to respect and tolerate those of another. This attitude is totally wrong, for it disregards two important factors: (a) in tolerating divergent doctrines one either denies the perspicuity and clarity of the Scriptures, or one grants to error the right to exist alongside of truth, or one evidences indifference over against Biblical truth by surrendering its absolute validity; and (b) in allowing two opposite views concerning one doctrine to exist side by side, one has entered upon an inclined plane which of necess- ity leads ever further into complete doctrinal indifference, as may plainly be seen from the most calamitous case on record, viz., the Prussian Union."
M. Reu, In the Interest of Lutheran Unity, Columbus: The Lutheran Book Concern, 1940, p. 20.

Holy Mother Synod at Work Today
[Selnecker, who wrote "Ach bleib bei uns" (TLH #292) was bitterly attacked and severely persecuted by the Reformed, deposed when Augustus died, reduced to poverty, and not allowed to remain in Leipzig as a private citizen.]
Theodore E. Schmauk and C. Theodore Benze, The Confessional Principle and the Confessions, as Embodying the Evangelical Confession of the Christian Church, Philadelphia: General Council Publication Board, 1911, p. 310ff.

Kieschnick Described
"The modern radical spirit which would sweep away the Formula of Concord as a Confession of the Church, will not, in the end, be curbed, until it has swept away the Augsburg Confession, and the ancient Confessions of the Church--yea, not until it has crossed the borders of Scripture itself, and swept out of the Word whatsoever is not in accord with its own critical mode of thinking. The far-sighted rationalist theologian and Dresden court preacher, Ammon, grasped the logic of a mere spirit of progress, when he said: 'Experience teaches us that those who reject a Creed, will speedily reject the Scriptures themselves.'"
Theodore E. Schmauk and C. Theodore Benze, The Confessional Principle and the Confessions, as Embodying the Evangelical Confession of the Christian Church, Philadelphia: General Council Publication Board, 1911, p. 685.

So Why Does WELS Sponsor Church and Change?
"The real question is not what do you subscribe, but what do you believe and publicly teach, and what are you transmitting to those who come after? If it is the complete Lutheran faith and practice, the name and number of the standards is less important. If it is not, the burden of proof rests upon you to show that your more incomplete standard does not indicate an incomplete Lutheran faith."
Theodore E. Schmauk and C. Theodore Benze, The Confessional Principle and the Confessions, as Embodying the Evangelical Confession of the Christian Church, Philadelphia: 1911, p. 890.

Their Unionism Is Bad, Our Unionism Is Good
"The greatest single weakness, it seems to this reviewer, in Dr. Lindsell's battle line is in the area of fellowship. The soft spot is his failure to advise a fellowship practice that accords fully with Scripture, a failure that has ever been a weakness among the 'evangelicals.'
Review of The Battle for the Bible, by Harold Lindsell, Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1976. Armin W. Schuetze, Wisconsin Lutheran Quarterly, October, 1976 73, p. 326.

Obsolete
"Before God every activity of our faith is at the same time fellowship activity in the Communion of Saints."
Doctrinal Statements of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, Authorized by the Commission on Doctrinal Matters. p. 27. (GJ - District Puppet Seifert gave me these statements when I was still an LCA pastor, but urged his WELS pastors to attend to pan-Christian worship conference at Carthage College. The official WELS worship conference was organized by James P. Tiefel, Mequon.)

But We Have So Much To Learn from Fuller - Valleskey
"In selecting specific individuals or groups for a joint expression of faith we can do this only on the basis of their confession."
Doctrinal Statements of the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod, Authorized by the Commission on Doctrinal Matters. p. 29.

Be Careful Whom You Denounce WELS
"Dr. Martin Marty is pastor of the Missouri Synod Church of the Holy Ghost, Elk Grove, Illinois. At the same time he is associate editor of The Christian Century, a religious journal which denies the teachings of Scripture on Jesus Christ, the inspiration of the Bible, the atonement, the virgin birth, and other cardinal doctrines...Whether or not Dr. Marty as associate editor is directly responsible for the shaping of editorial policy, the fact remains that he has lent his name and sanction as a Lutheran to the blasphemies the unchristian Century prints. Again the question: How many may have had a stumbling block put in the way of their faith by this gross offense? And what will the MIssouri Synod answer for lending its membership and prestige to that kind of gross offender? Luke 17:1, 2." E. Arnold Sitz, Entrenched Unionistic Practices, A Record of Unionistic Practice in the LCMS Authorized by the Commission on Doctrinal Matters, Wisconsin Ev. Lutheran Synod. p. 21.

Olson, D.Min. Fuller, Kelm, D.Min. St. Louis - Disagree
"In an essay on Unionism, Dr. F. Pieper, a former president of the Missouri Synod and successor of Dr. Walther as president of Concordia Theological Seminary, St. Louis, in 1924 said to the Oregon and Washington District: 'The Holy Scriptures very emphatically and in manifold ways teach that all fellowship with false doctrine is forbidden by God and is harmful to the Church.' On II John 10, 11, he said: 'God here forbids Unionism, religious fellowship with those who are known to be false teachers.'"
Carl Lawrenz, Chairman, Commission on Doctrinal Matters, Fellowship Then and Now, Concerning the Impasse in the Intersynodical Discussions on Church Fellowship, p. 20. 2 John 10, 11

Barber Was Only Giving Counsel to ELCA for the Joy Radio Show - Mischke
"Rev. Brenner tells us how unionists in the General Council chloroformed the conscience of the body. When they entered into working arrangements (in the distinctly religious sphere) with the Reformed churches, they glazed the matter over by reporting that 'the object of these conferences is purely that of counsel concering the problems of foreign mission-work.' Only counsel; no fellowship; just consulting with one another. Thus does the camel push its nose into the tent. Let us keep our eyes open" (p. 98ff.)
Carl Lawrenz, Chairman, Commission on Doctrinal Matters, Fellowship Then and Now, Concerning the Impasse in the Intersynodical Discussions on Church Fellowship, p. 23.

Wouldn't Lawrenz Be Impressed that Marty Is Now a Favored Speaker for WLC and WELS?
"Only recently Dr. Martin Marty, a pastor of the Missouri Synod and an associate editor of the Christian Century, outlined with considerable frankness the program and methods whereby changes may be effected within church bodies that still are antiecumenical (to him this means, church bodies who decline to engage in joint worship and church work unless first confessional unity has been established). Writing in the Christian Century, he advocates a program whereby the ecumenically minded remain within their church bodies, but 'work for constructive subversion, encirclement, and infiltration, until antiecumenical forces bow to the evangelical weight of reunion.' Although they remain within their denominations, with whose principles they do not agree, they will 'somehow telegraph to the world who it is they serve and where their loyalties already lie' (Jan. 11, 1961, p. 45). These are the methods Dr. Marty openly proposes." Carl Lawrenz, Chairman, Commission on Doctrinal Matters, Fellowship Then and Now, Concerning the Impasse in the Intersynodical Discussions on Church Fellowship, p. 27.

Hoenecke Describing ELS-WELS-LCMS Today
"Those who defend a false union assert that while practicing unionistic fellowship one can still cling firmly to the true confession, that unionism is not then synonymous with indifferentism. This is an illusion, even as experience has sufficiently shown that a false union opens the doors wide to indifferentism. And how could it be otherwise?"
Adolf Hoenecke, Dogmatik III, p. 441f. Carl Lawrenz, Chairman, Commission on Doctrinal Matters, Fellowship Then and Now, Concerning the Impasse in the Intersynodical Discussions on Church Fellowship, p. 31.

United Nations and LWR Support
"$60,000 General world relief (through C.A.R.E. and Lutheran World Relief) Rev. Kennth Strack, chairman WELS Reports and Memorials for the Fifty-fourth Biennial Convention, Milwaukee: WELS, 1997. p. 165.

Survey, Virgin Birth: Find the Apostates

The Greek initials stand for Virgin Mary and Son of God,
foreign concepts to sophisticated bishops.

Posted by David Virtue on 2007/12/14 14:20:00 (1310 reads)
Do you believe in the Virgin Birth?

The Spectator asked a select group from the Archbishop of Canterbury to Christopher Hitchens
Christmas survey

The Spectator
http://tinyurl.com/38rlzx
December 12, 2007

Christmas is not just about shopping and flirting, eating and drinking, anger and remorse. It is also about the Incarnation. But how many people believe in the Christian story of Christmas, and how strong is their belief? To find out, The Spectator approached leading public figures in the Churches, in the arts and the media and in politics, and asked them: 'Do you believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ?' Here are their challenging - and sometimes surprising - answers.

The Most Reverend and Right Hon. Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury

Yes; I believe that the conception of Jesus was a moment when the creative action of God produced a reality as new in its way as the first moment of creation itself. And I believe that what opened the way for this was the work of God through human history over centuries, coming to its fullest moment in Mary's consent to God's call. The recognition of the uniqueness and newness of Jesus is a recognition of the absolute freedom of God to break the chains of cause and effect that lock us into our sins and failures; the virginal conception is an outward sign of this divine freedom to make new beginnings.

His Eminence Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, Archbishop of Westminster

Of course. All teaching about Mary the Mother of God points us to the uniqueness of Jesus Christ. The miracle of his birth shows us that he is God-with-us. Jesus has only God as Father and Mary as Mother and in his birth we are adopted as children of the Father in the Holy Spirit. We look to Mary as a Mother who loves us.

Colin Wilson

No, of course I don't, and I imagine you'll have some difficulty finding any educated person who believes in it, or any other Christian dogma. Of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, only the third survives.

James Delingpole

Look, I've successfully survived 42 years as a member of the Church of England without ever having to give serious thought to the Virgin Birth and I jolly well don't see why I should be put on the spot now just for the sake of a Speccie feature. I guess that makes me a 'Don't Know', which is a terrible thing to admit given that I'm halfway towards being a pillar of my beloved Chelsea Old Church. But that's the great thing about being C of E, isn't it? If I were Catholic, I suppose I'd have to find the issue intensely important. Me, I care more about hymns having the right tunes, and the Prayer Book being 1662.

Ann Widdecombe

If Christ was also God, then he cannot have been born purely of humans, so his incarnation as a man must have been via a virgin. Thus I see no reason to doubt the testimony of scripture that Jesus was not the son of Joseph, but of God.

Christopher Howse

I gladly believe Jesus was born of a virgin. The teaching is clear. It was believed in the earliest times, and was no more likely then. What tended to repel ancient pagans was God-made-man humiliatingly spending months in the womb. But that too Christians believe: he assumes our humanity, which he derives from his mother. The same person is pre-existent God and an individual little foetus. That is the great mystery which reconciles us to God and destroys sin and death. We only know about it because we were told, and we were told because, after dying on the cross, Jesus rose again and people saw him and listened to him. That is a more impressive miracle than mere parthenogenesis.

Edward Stourton

Hmmm. I can see the logic which argues that if you believe in the Incarnation, you need to believe in the Virgin Birth, so I suppose I ought to say yes ...but I wouldn't say it is a constant source of inspiration when I reflect on the great questions of life.

The Revd Professor Keith Ward

I do not believe in the Virgin Birth. The point of the Biblical account is to see Jesus as the start of a new creation, fulfilling the hopes of the 'virgin Israel'. I do not dogmatically deny it, but think it probably legendary.

The Revd Nicky Gumbel, Vicar, Holy Trinity, Brompton

I do believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ. I believe Jesus is the unique Son of God. The Virgin Birth was a miracle. The real issue facing the world today is 'Is there a God?' If there is, then miracles become a real possibility. If God is God, then he created matter, reason, time, space and all scientific laws and therefore is at liberty to interfere. If there is no God, then miracles are a problem. But philosophy and science alone will not answer the crucial question. Scientific laws are not like the laws of pure mathematics that cannot be broken. Rather they are descriptive. Once I came to believe in the great miracle - that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us - I had no problem in believing in the Virgin Birth.

Father Michael Holman SJ, Provincial of the Society of Jesus, British Province

If we do not believe in the Virgin Birth, we deny the very divinity of Christ, relegating him to simply a great human being, but not the Son of God. But I believe that Jesus Christ is truly God, and truly man; that his Incarnation was through the divine intervention of the Holy Spirit; that God himself is his Father; and that his mother, Mary, was a woman. The Virgin Birth is, therefore, a core Christian belief, and is a doctrine in which I firmly believe.

The Rt Revd Dr Michael J. Nazir-Ali, Bishop of Rochester

Yes. The story is reported by both Matthew and Luke, who rely on independent traditions for their material. It is also echoed in other parts of the New Testament. There is good reason to believe that there was something very unusual about the birth of Jesus, even his enemies and detractors acknowledged this and early anti-Christian polemic had to find ways of dealing with it. Finally, there is, of course, the testimony of the Koran which relies on yet another stream of tradition! Quite a lot of evidence for the birth of a child, don't you think?

Charles Moore

Jesus Christ was true God and true Man: the Virgin Birth is an obstetric statement of this fact.

Roger Scruton

The Virgin Birth is a doctrine of the Church that many Christians today find hard to believe, and one entirely unnecessary for the belief in the divinity of Mary's son Jesus. I would not regard my faith as shaken by its disproof. However there are many ways in which women can become pregnant while remaining virgins, and as for the Holy Ghost - this can hardly be the only time that he has had a part in it. The annunciation is enough for me, along with all else that is implied in the 'Hail Mary': Mary earned the status attributed to her by that prayer through her motherly devotion, her innocent suffering and her obedience to God.

A.C. Grayling

No, of course not. But I'm interested in the idea's (so to speak) logic. Many mythological heroes were fathered by gods on mortal women. Not all these latter were any better than they should have been, unless god-attracting youthfulness made them so. But in the combination of ambiguous etymology (does Isaiah vii 14 specify the Messiah's dam as a 'young woman' or a 'virgin'?), St Paul (Christianity's proto-Jesuitical inventor), and the early Church's orthodoxy squabbles over sex and original sin, the Mother of God (weird idea) had to be pure. And therefore not just a virgin but herself 'immaculately' conceived. We await the next step, relating to her mother Anne. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was declared by Pius IX in 1854; we can expect the Nonpeccavistic Zygotisation of Anne herself, by this timeline, around 3708 ad.

Piers Paul Read

Our sex-obsessed generation feels affronted by the idea of the Virgin Birth, yet virtually everything we know about Jesus comes from the four Gospels, two of which (Matthew and Luke) explicitly state that Mary became pregnant without sexual intercourse. Why should they have falsified the record? Some theologians suggest that it was because Isaiah (vii 14) had prophesied that the promised Messiah would be born of a virgin. But the other two Evangelists, Mark and John, did not think it necessary to make this connection; and there was certainly no need for Luke's psychological elaborations - Mary's surprise, Joseph's jealousy. As any journalist should recognise, Luke must have had a primary source, and that source can only have been Joseph or, more probably, Mary herself.

Christopher Hitchens

I no more believe that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary than I believe that Krishna was born of the virgin Devaka, Horus was born of the virgin Isis, Mercury was born of the virgin Maia or Romulus was born of the virgin Rhea Sylvia. As the preceding examples help to demonstrate, parthenogenesis would in any case not be proof either of divine paternity or of the truth of any subsequent preachings. The authors of St Matthew - whose account cannot be squared with the one offered by Luke - in any case seem to have mistranslated the Hebrew word almah, meaning 'young woman', from the original legend in the book of Isaiah. Christianity insults our intelligence as well as our innate morality by insisting that we believe absurdities that are drawn from the mythology of paganism and barbarism.

Paul Johnson

The Incarnation is the most delightful, human, visually beautiful and delicate of all Christian beliefs. The idea of God's son coming to earth in the womb of a virgin, and being born in a manger, is beyond the power of any mortal imagination to invent and is so obviously true that anyone who denies it must have the feelings of a brute.

Jonathan Aitken

I believe the Virgin Birth because it is the story of a radical new beginning in God's relationship with the human race. Mary's joy and obedience (astounding in an age when unmarried mothers were stoned to death in Judaean villages) testify to the power of the Holy Spirit. The incarnation, together with the creation and the resurrection, are the cornerstones of my faith. When I hear the Gospel reading for Christmas day as it reaches John i 13-14 'born not of the will of man but of God. And the word was made flesh and dwelt among us' a tingle runs down my spine, for this is the good news of the ultimate miracle.

Douglas Murray

Yes. For any practising Christian the Virgin Birth is one of the tenets of faith. I find it odd when people chip away at particular miracles. I've never seen much point in claiming that, for instance, Christ couldn't feed the five thousand. If he couldn't do that, then what are the odds on Resurrection? And if he didn't do that, then there's no faith. Christmas only seems meaningful as a religious celebration. Its demotion to a binge makes it ordinary, not miraculous. I have dabbled in atheism, but always had doubts.

Iain Duncan Smith

This secular society prides itself that all its decisions will be based on logic, tempered by experience and underscored by scientific evidence. On that basis the Virgin Birth is physiologically impossible. And yet, the whole point about a deity is that logic has nothing to do with it and if you believe in God, as I do, the impossible becomes possible. As Jesus was the Son of God his birth was special. And as the Son of God sired by the deity, then the Virgin Birth is not only possible but unique and credible.

Peter Oborne

This is a complex issue but luckily I have been able to draw on a formidable body of knowledge. My daughter, who is studying theology at university, informs me that modern liberal Biblical scholarship views the whole thing as a myth. She points out that two of the four gospels don't even mention the birth narrative, and adds that the two that do offer contradictory accounts. There is no question that the early Church was obsessed with the virginity of Mary. But this may have been based less on the historical record than a determination to make Jesus fit into Biblical prophecy. I think that it is impossible to be a Christian without a literal belief in the Resurrection of Jesus. Everything falls down without it. The same is not true of the Virgin Birth.

Fraser Nelson

The basis of Christianity is that Jesus was the Son of God, not the son of Joseph - his DNA was a mix between that of Our Lady and the Almighty. If you don't believe in the Immaculate Conception, then The Life of Brian starts to look more like a documentary. (GJ - The Immaculate Conception is a Roman Catholic doctrine about Mary, not even connected with the Biblical teaching of the Virgin Birth.)

NO SHOWS

Three bishops were too busy to help The Spectator with its inquiries: The Rt Revd John Pritchard, Bishop of Oxford; the Rt Revd Richard Chartres, Bishop of London; and the Most Revd Dr Katharine Jefferts Schori, Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church in the United States. The following politicians did not respond to approaches made through their offices: the Prime Minister (who may have been too busy), Liam Fox, David Cameron, George Galloway and Tony Blair.

END