Wednesday, August 4, 2010

Gaba Does Grace, Milwaukee - Home of Fuller-trained WELS First VP







WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 4, 2010

Coffee & Worship at Grace WELS

This past Lord's Day, after Mass at Saint Stephen's, I mounted my brother's Huffy, and headed north, across the 6th Street Viaduct, and into the Downtown. By the time I got to Juneau Town I was a bit huffy myself, so I decided to stop in at the coffeehouse at Grace, the Wisconsin Synod Lutheran church at the corner of Juneau & Broadway, right across from the old Blatz Brewery (which has been converted into luxury condos). Actually, when I got Downtown I realized that it was earlier in the day than I thought, since we didn't have Bible study this week. So I decided that not only was I going to get something to drink in the Lutheran coffeehouse, but that I would also sit in on their late Mass, which was scheduled to begin about a half hour later.

The coffeehouse.
First I must say that I have never gone into a "Christian" coffeehouse and come out feeling like I had a really satisfying, genuine coffeehouse experience. Perhaps you, dear reader, were not familiar with the phenomenon of the Christianized coffeehouse. Fort Wayne had a couple of them, at least when I lived there. Grace's coffeehouse, Grace Place, is a modern looking facility, with a couple of friendly ladies behind the counter. They made me an adequate cup of cafe mocha. I sat down, relaxed, and read from one of the bibles that were stacked on a shelf. And so there was nothing wrong with the experience, per se. Yet, I ended up concluding that in certain ways it was not unlike those Evangelical coffeehouses I knew in Fort Wayne. Something about them gives me the heebie-jeebies. All things considered, I would rather be a Christian in a real coffeehouse than take the concept of the coffeehouse and "Christianize" it. [GJ - It was the Soul Cafe before!]

Again, I will say that those who were there were competent, and friendly. And I do not impugn the motives of those who decided to start this thing, and those who run it, for I cannot claim to know those motives. I am merely sharing some general thoughts on the concept.

On the one hand, one could say this operation is providing business for Stone Creek's coffee. On the other hand, Grace Church is also, with this coffee shop, providing a nice little business for itself. This leads to a broader question. Ought the Church be about the business of being in business? The answer, to be clear, is no; the Church is healthiest when it focuses on simply being the Church. She serves her children and the world best when she makes sure that Christ her Lord is preached clearly and relentlessly, and when her sacramental life is strong and central. I am not opposed to social activities and groups and programs and clubs rising up within a parish. That is a natural outcome of a lively ecclesial community in the modern world. What I question is when these things become official "ministries" and get organized from the top. All of this is to say that we ought to seek first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness. Then, all these other things will be added unto us.

The church.
Speaking of those fundamental things, like the Gospel and the sacraments, after I sat down in the church and the service got started, I was disappointed when I realized that it was not, in fact, a Mass at all. It had many of the basic parts of one, but without the Eucharist. This is not hugely surprising, in retrospect, but I was for some silly reason assuming when I entered and sat down, that I would get to see the celebration of the Sacrament of the Altar. So as I say, that was a bit disappointing. Of course, many Missouri Synod churches are likewise negligent in celebrating the Eucharist on a weekly basis. I wonder what Grace's eucharistic schedule is, since I haven't really seen any indication in the printed schedules, or the web site, unless it's published on the web site where I haven't yet seen it.

But before I get ahead of myself, let me say that when I walked into the church, I was greatly impressed by the beauty and upkeep of what is a classic Milwaukee church. It is about the same age as my own church, Saint Stephen's. The present structure of Saint Stephen's, if I recall, was built in 1901. Grace, from what one woman told me, was built in 1900. They are both very good examples of the type of beautiful gothic churches built by Lutherans in Milwaukee at the turn of the twentieth century. Saint Stephen's presently suffers the effects of a deeply declined and depleted parish. Grace, on the other hand, is a very lively parish, which is obviously able and willing to take good care of its physical space. One of the features which I really like is the canopy above the altar, with detailed wood columns. Large stained glass windows in the north and south transepts depict scenes from the life of Christ. There are too many details to recount here, but suffice to say it is a spectacular interior, worthy of the worship of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Upon entering the church, I was immediately greeted by three men. I suppose they were the ushers or "greeters" or what have you. They showed me where to find a worship bulletin, which comprised twelve pages stapled together, with three additional inserts. I entered the nave, and took a moment to look around the church. Then, I took a seat in the back pew. After a few minutes I noticed that the last four or five pews are reserved for families with children, so I got up, and relocated to a spot a few pews up.

At the start time, the younger of the two pastors, Pastor Daron Lindemann, comes to the front of the chancel, attired, curiously, in an alb and a stole. On the one hand, if this were to be the Mass, it would have been appropriate for him to wear a chasuble over that alb (and now I wonder if they use chasubles when they do have the Mass). On the other hand, as I say, after a while I caught on to the fact that this was not to be the Mass; therefore he ought to have worn a surplice instead of the alb. I wonder if any such distinctions are observed at Grace. If not, Grace is not alone (gratia sola non?). Too many Missouri Synod pastors are likewise infected with liturgical ineptitude to the point of not even knowing what to wear. But I digress. Pastor Lindemann stands there in front of the congregation, in what I must say is a weird stance for the chancel of the church, with his arms down at his side, giving an impromptu greeting and summary of the theme of the service. Through the rest of the service he continued to use the same posture, whether walking from one point to another, or reading the lections, or whatever, with his hands down at his side. I suppose he was told somewhere along the line that this would be a natural, or winsome, way in which to conduct himself in the church. It's goofy, and should have been corrected in his first year of seminary.

The service then commences with a hymn, "With the Lord Begin Your Task," an eighteenth century hymn translated in the modern age by W. Gustave Polack. My reaction to this hymn is twofold. First, in general I think the Church could live without hymns that tell us what to do. Hymns, at their best, should combine confessing the faith with prayer to Almighty God, rather than merely ordering us around. After singing a hymn in which I tell myself to begin my task with the Lord, maybe I should go on to sing a hymn in which I tell myself to lift high the cross. Second, it is unnecessary and less than ideal for the Church to sing hymns in which God is addressed by the pronoun "You." Did the makers ofChristian Worship: A Lutheran Hymnal do this to all of its hymns? I could page through it to get that answer, but I'm not that interested.

After the hymn, Pastor Lindemann, who already greeted the people informally, now greets them liturgically. Both this greeting, and the response of the people, are right out of the modern Roman Rite's Novus Ordo:

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you.
R. And also with you.

At least the Novus Ordo directs the priest to say the Trinitarian Invocation before doing this greeting.

After an innovative confession of sins, there is the singing of a piece called "Oh, taste and see that the Lord is good," followed by the prayer of the day.

Before reading the Old Testament, Pastor Lindemann gives a little summary of what he will read. Not only is such a practice unnecessary, it is an unfitting, even distracting, intrusion into the liturgy of the Church. He does the same with the Epistle and the Gospel. Before the Epistle the congregation sings a Psalm of the Day, which is done in the modern, irritating style of singing a refrain after about every four or five verses. It was a setting composed by David Cherwien in 2005. It's style is reminiscent of the Hymnal Supplement 98, which I endured at Kramer Chapel. It is also reminiscent of many a modern Roman Catholic Mass I have witnessed, with the music leader trying to motion for everyone to join in the singing.

The sermon was preached by the older pastor, Pastor James Huebner. He preached on the Lord's Prayer. What I like about his preaching is that he has a rather lively manner. It actually seemed that he was preaching to me, and cared about his message. What I did not like was that it was mostly a sermon giving advice on how to pray better, but didn't really say anything about the death of Christ.

After the sermon the congregation stood and confessed the Apostles' Creed. I suppose one good thing about this not being the Mass was that I didn't have to suffer the Nicene Creed as it is printed in that hymnal, a version which constitutes, as far as I know, world Lutheranism's first feminist version of the Nicene Creed.

Then, after an offering was taken (while "What a Friend We Have in Jesus" was played on the piano), there was the Prayer of the Church, which was made up of the parts of the Our Father, interspersed with explanations of those parts. After this prayer, the congregation sang "What a Friend We Have in Jesus."

The service concluded with a concluding prayer, a final blessing, and a hymn, "Lord, Teach Us How to Pray Aright." And just when I thought I got away from "What a Friend We Have in Jesus," it was played as the postlude. Pastor Liundemann asked everyone to greet each other in the pew after the final hymn. I love meeting people, and so forth, but I wanted no part of fraternizing in the holy space of the church, so after the hymn, I slipped out of there. I retrieved my bike, and headed home.

It was an interesting experience, much that was good, and much which I hope that neither I nor anyone else will have to experience again. Over all, Grace does a magnificent job of marketing what they sell. (Already today, for example, I got a post card from them in the mail.) I'm simply less than content, as a traditionalist Lutheran, with what they are selling.

Federal Judge Approves Party in the MLC

PAPER: Judge being gay nonissue during trial...



Factbox: U.S. laws on gay marriage, civil unions

Related Topics

Wed Aug 4, 2010 5:24pm EDT
(Reuters) - A federal judge in San Francisco on Wednesday struck down California's ban on gay marriage, a ruling that, while it will likely be appealed all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, hands a key victory to gay rights advocates.


The Supreme Court has not taken a case on gay marriage, leaving states to decide on the issue, although the California federal challenge is aimed at eventually reaching the country's top court.

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Why not? WELS thinks it is cool and fosters deception about the video below, which is back on YouTube.




Party Poopers in the ELCA - Income Heading Down



HerChurch in California may be one reason for the decline in ELCA offerings.
Recent ELCA service - warning - you do not want to read it.
Goddess Rosary - leave that alone too.



ELCA NEWS SERVICE
August 4, 2010

ELCA Council Reduces 2010 Churchwide Spending, Acts on Pensions Resolutions


CHICAGO (ELCA) -- The Church Council of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) revised the 2010 current fund spending authorization for the ELCA churchwide organization to $65.1 million, a mid-year reduction of $4.2 million or 6.1 percent from the previously authorized $69.3 million for 2010.

The council made the decision in open session during a rare conference call meeting Aug. 4. Much of the meeting was held in executive session to discuss background information on finances and personnel, plus an organizational design process and legal matters, said Carlos Peña, Galveston, Texas, ELCA vice president and chair of the council.

The council also formed an ad hoc committee to report to it about reductions in the ELCA Board of Pensions' annuity payments to retired church workers.

The current fund spending reduction for the remainder of 2010 did not result in position or personnel losses, said the Rev. M. Wyvetta Bullock, ELCA executive for administration. Most churchwide unit budgets were reduced between about 1 and 8 percent, according to figures supplied by the ELCA treasurer.

Bullock explained that contingency plans previously developed were used to reduce the 2010 spending authorization. Officers worked with ELCA partner organizations, the executive committee of the council and liaison bishops to the council to finalize the reductions. She said the church wants to maintain its commitment to such things as missionaries and new-start congregations, but the reductions "limit our capacity to increase these numbers."

Nearly all of the $4.2 million reduction was taken from anticipated mission support income provided to the churchwide organization by congregations through the church's 65 synods, said Christina Jackson-Skelton, ELCA treasurer. Through June 30, mission support income declined about $3.7 million or about 15 percent from the same period in 2009, she said.

Sixty synods have remitted 2010 mission support income "unfavorable" to the same period in 2009, according to information supplied to the council.

Mission support income has been in a period of decline since December 2008 after five years of relative stability, according to the council information. Though it is difficult to project mission support income accurately during such periods of economic volatility, the council was told that mission support income by the end of the 2010 fiscal year is expected to be about $51 million. In 2009 actual mission support to the churchwide organization was $59.7 million.

Decreases in mission support income have been caused by the economic instability that continues to affect all parts of the church, compounded by "some unfavorable responses to the 2009 ELCA Churchwide Assembly actions on sexuality," the background materials stated.

Leaders of the ELCA churchwide organization have been spending below approved levels, and have engaged in ongoing financial contingency planning. The contingency planning process "will also continue to identify further reductions, if required," the background information said.

Council discusses redesign, forms ad hoc committee, hears update on congregations
Related to the churchwide organization's financial situation is an organizational redesign process announced by Bullock in a June 21 e-mail to staff. At that time Bullock wrote that the organization will create a plan to restructure the churchwide organization to align its work with anticipated income. The council discussed the plan's progress in executive session.

The council's other action established a representative ad hoc committee to respond to concerns raised by several synods this spring about reductions in annuity payments to retirees.

In 2009 the ELCA Board of Pensions informed some 12,500 plan members receiving benefits from the Participating Annuity and Bridge Fund that it would reduce monthly annuity payments by 9 percent annually over a three-year period. The fund suffered significant losses due to the financial downturn in late 2008 and early 2009, necessitating the reductions.

In response to resolutions from nine synods, the council asked the ad hoc committee to consult with the Board of Pensions to learn more about the decisions it made regarding the annuity and bridge fund. It also asked the committee to explore ways to restore fund losses and increase payments to annuitants and explore ways to mitigate the adverse effects of fund losses. The council asked for a report and possible recommendations at its November meeting.

ELCA Secretary David D. Swartling told the council that, as of Aug. 3, his office had been advised that 504 of 10,239 congregations have taken first votes to terminate their relationships with the ELCA. Of those, 348 passed and 156 failed. Synods have also reported that 212 congregations took second votes to leave the ELCA, of which 199 passed and 13 failed, he said.

Swartling added that of those congregations that have voted to leave, about 75 percent have said they will join Lutheran Congregations for Mission in Christ.

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8/4/2010
ELCA Church Council trims churchwide budget by $4.2 million

After spending two hours of a two-and one-half hour conference call meeting in closed session Aug. 4, the ELCA Church Council voted in open session to cut the churchwide 2010 current fund spending authorization by 6 percent, from $69.3 to $65.1 million. ELCA Treasurer Christina Jackson-Skelton reported that, through the end of June, 2010 mission support was down $3.7 million (a 15.2 percent reduction) from the same period in 2009.

Wyvetta Bullock, executive for administration, told the council that churchwide was still trying to hold its commitment to new starts and missionaries. "We're not recalling any missionaries," Bullock said, adding that there would be some impact on grants to seminaries and others.

Spread across a variety of churchwide units, the $4.2 million cut affects some more deeply than others: Vocation and Education, down $592,000 (6.28 percent); Global Mission, down $448,000 (3.34 percent); Evangelical Outreach and Congregational Mission, down $400,000 (2.23 percent); Development Services, down $331,050 (22.06 percent); Church in Society, down $131,000 (4.72 percent); and Multicultural Ministries, down $94,870 (7.73 percent).

In a separate action, in response to requests from nine synods, the council established an ad hoc committee to bring to the November 2010 council meeting a report and possible recommendations on ELCA Board of Pensions annuity funding, losses and "steps to mitigate adverse effects of the Fund reductions."

Rollover Incident


Tuesday, August 3, 2010

English 101 - Editor Edit Thyself


ptmccain
ALPB Contribution Leader
*****
Posts: 642


Dustin

The women of the Concordia Deaconess Conference have had to fight every inch of their way for recognition, the previous admin virtually ignored them, in spite of all it's (sic) rhetoric about the service of women.

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GJ - Someone on ALPB pointed out that McCain was saying the Barry administration ignored the CDC, since the new one under Harrison has not started. I noticed the freshman English error of turning its into it's.

Someone added - "Nice catch, Jim. It is always fun to catch Paul "Word Master" McCain like that - it doesn't happen often. Well played!"

That is funny, because they missed the Word Master on basic English. I have decided to change the English language the same way. From now on, his will be hi's. I like that - hi's, he'r, and it's.

Abolutely! (another McCainism). Bad punctuation, too - but worthy of absolution since he has to tend so many blogs and Facebook pages.

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My Photo

Dr. Jack Kilcrease has left a new comment on your post "English 101 - Editor Edit Thyself":

Wow, you really got him there!

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Post removed by Jack Kilcrease.

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bored has left a new comment on your post "English 101 - Editor Edit Thyself":

its to bad that people just belch out there thoughts without editting. (hint to gen Y and Z: the little red line under the word indicates your guilty of mispelling.) This seems like a good arguement that the addition of the internet (or all technology?) in contemporary life is a zero-sum game. Or maybe it's a testament to Newton's third law of Motion? (for every bit of knowledge the internet has made possible an equal amount of ignorance must also be propagated?)

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GJ - That is funny, Bored. But for real comedy, check out the Church and Money Changers' website. They never fix their mistakes, doctrinal or spelling.



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Brett Meyer has left a new comment on your post "English 101 - Editor Edit Thyself":

Comment deleted
This post has been removed by the author.


Looks like Jack was here early this morning.

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GJ -

McCain does not know basic English:

"I think the final wake-up call will be when the ELCA has it's (sic) first homosexually active bishop and when his/her ministry is specifically rejected by a pastor or congregation, appealing to "bound conscience" and having that appeal firmly rejected by ELCA leadership."


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Warning: The ALPB Internet Forum May Be Hazardous to Your Mental and Spiritual Health

600px-Warning_icon.svg
Some time back I recommended folks give the American Lutheran Publicity Bureau's online forum a try. I now need to withdraw that recommendation. The ALPB forum is very poorly moderated, and when the ELCA moderator actually ever does attempt to exercise some modicum of control, it is generally to slap wrists with a ruler for not being nice, which apparently in the ELCA is a sin far more serious than doctrinal heresy and moral bankruptcy. The forum has reached the point where it is no better than sites like LutherQuest. There are two very liberal ELCA pastors on the board who dominate every conversation to the point of destroying any possibility of reasonable conversation, one in particular is permitted by the site's moderators to question incessantly every major article of the Christian faith. It is a mess. It is actually a bit like watching a train wreck, it is so awful you can't take your eyes from it, but…you really should. I have, and feel much the better for it.


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GJ - McCain must love trainwrecks. Now we know why his mental health is impaired. He cannot stop posting on ALPB.

Who pays him to natter all day long across the blogosphere?

And again - today:

"The Church will simply say no and bear whatever consequences there may be for confession of the truth, there woll (sic) be churches willing simply to bow the knee to Baal ."

The Shrinker History of Plagiarism




The Church Growth Movement began in paganism, conceived in lust and born in iniquity.

Don McGavran, Disciples of Christ, borrowed his method from sociology.

When he moved to Fuller Seminary, his method was looking at large churches and copying how they reached that level of attendance. He formulated various "Church Growth principles" and maxims, all of them hilarious, even when cold sober.

The LCMS, WELS, ELS, and ELCA vanguard found themselves invited to Fuller to waste their synod's money on training. That is why all Shrinkers sound alike.

They were trained in copying the same craziness which intoxicated the earliest users.

Bivens, Kelm, Valleskey, and Stadler were out in California early and learning how to plagiarize.

Their buddy Floyd Luther Stolzenburg, thrown out of the LCMS ministry for cause, invented a Church Growth consulting scam (with Roger Zehms, also divorced), so everyone could copy the Schwaermer together.

The premise has been: "If it is a large church, a fast-growing church, then whatever they did will work for us if we do the same."

Parlow and Kelm were known for taking sermons from the Net, giving them as their own, and posting them on the parish website (Fox Valley, naturally) as their own. Once everyone found out, the sermons no longer appeared on the public site.

Ditto, the sermons at St. Peter Freedom (Anonymouse, fake Ichabod, aka Tim Glende). They no longer appear.

The head of WELS technology gave Willow Creek sermons verbatim, until he was exposed. Then he did it all over again. Who paid the price? The member who objected.

Nobody puts CG in the corner - in WELS.

All the cool ideas in WELS, ELS, Missouri, and even the CLC (sic) are plagiarized from the false teachers. They are copy cats, not cool cats. They are too dumb to alter titles enough to mask the origin. I have even tracked them copying graphics from various Schwaermer websites. Lazy, stupid, and false teachers.

The so-called conservative Lutherans have put up with this in the name of protecting the name of Holy Mother Synod. Which group is worse?
1. The false teachers trained at Fuller, Willow Creek, etc?
2. The pastors who mildly object to CG but run interference for the Shrinkers in the name of a smooth-running organization?
3. The minister who do not care and figure it is not their business that wolves are tearing up the flock from within?
4. The lay leaders who carry water for the Shrinkers, protecting the false teachers while getting rid of confessional ones?

Lutherans have planted a garbage tree and it has grown fast, producing garbage fruit with fertile seed.


The Ichaboat in Front of the Ich-abode







Our luxury touring car is a 1994 Lincoln Town Car, bought from John and Anna Dugger (Nineteen and Counting). He is the oldest Duggar child, so we got the newlyweds a baby shirt, for their first child. We had it embroidered "One and Counting."

LPC at Extra Nos thought it was funny that I called our house the Ich-abode. LI nicknamed the car the Ichaboat. As Freddy Finkelstein noted, driving one is like relaxing in the living room.

One of the readers suggested this car which he saw its description and photo on the Internet. Since September it has been almost paid off and only required one important repair. Going Galt (frugal) is much better than the old ways.

Either my eyes are just opened to Town Cars or this is the headquarters of the fan club. We see lots of them around town, and people gush about how much they like them.

I also call it our Geezermobile.

Groeschel Teaches How To Plagiarize Legally


I learned how to kelm at The Sausage Factory.


Kelmed from the Christian Research Network:

When it comes to matters of integrity and decency, the normal course of events it seems, is that the secular culture and the world often condones that which the church condemns. For example, when the world calls adultery an “affair,” justifies divorce without cause, or calls addictions “diseases,” it is then the church that holds its own people accountable to a higher standard of morality and has less toleration for a lack of integrity and morality.

Although we typically find the world celebrating sin and the church confronting it, there is one area where this seems to be reversed: Plagiarism.

When it comes to intellectual property, copying another person’s work, and presenting it as one’s own, the secular world has absolutely no room for toleration. However, the church too often fails to condemn the same behavior, and sometimes even boasts of its use!

Why?

Consider this, can you imagine a member of congress standing up and saying “Last night I was doing some research and 74% of …” when he didn’t, but was reciting another person’s experience? Or what about a CEO standing in front of his board of directors saying “I remember it like it was yesterday,” while every word he speaks is another person’s history? Or what about your child’s 6th grade English teacher grading a book report presentation that was actually memorized from another student’s report?
We all know what happens when people in the secular world behave this way. Last year, an aide to the president resigned. Ironically, a university was recently under fire for copying another school’s policy on, plagiarism. Even Oprah Winfrey has been embarrassed, twice, for endorsing books written by authors who have manufactured history. If this behavior was appropriate, why was Oprah embarrassed by it, and why was it a scandal in the secular press? How can it then be endorsed by those who claim the name of Christ, and be tolerated by churches who practice this deceptive behavior while claiming and even openly bragging about their churches being “authentic” and “genuine?”

So what exactly am I talking about, the reader might ask? Am I talking about a pastor who hears another pastor’s sermon and wants to share it with his congregation, uses the same outline and verse, and disclaims ahead of time what he is doing? While I think doing so should be rare, it isn’t what I am criticizing here. This post is also not concerned specifically with a pastor who reads another’s sermon aloud, and tells his congregation what he is doing. While that should be rare too, it isn’t what I am addressing in this post.

What I am focusing on is the use of the same sermon, the same text, the same examples, and the same experiences, even first person, as if they are one’s own.

Craig Groeschel, who gives his sermons away on the Internet for free says, “It isn’t plagiarizing if you’re given permission,” and also agrees that “just because it isn’t plagiarizing doesn’t always mean you shouldn’t give credit to others.”

While I agree with Pastor Groeschel’s definition, I think it is incomplete, because plagiarism, I believe, also includes the element of deception when a sermon is presented, because the expectation of the congregation, without being notified, is that the material is the speaker’s own work. Especially when examples, experiences, and testimonies are spoken in first person. Just because a pastor has permission to use someone else’s material, this doesn’t mean he is without responsibility to not compromise his integrity to his hearers by presenting the material to them as if it were the work of his own study and preparation.

When it comes to actual practice, Pastor Groeschel seems to agree with my expanded definition of the term, as demonstrated when he uses someone else’s material himself. He not only gets permission, but also is honest with his hearers regarding his usage of another source. Notice also that the consensus in the comments on Pastor Groeschel’s blog is that his doing so “is common courtesy and decency. AS WELL AS INTEGRITY.”

But what happens when a pastor, even with permission to use another’s material, doesn’t tell his congregation, and even claims the personal experiences as his own? Do we consider this to be acceptable in the church, when even the world rejects it?

Words can only explain this so far, consider watching the following examples to understand the full gravity of the question:

In this first example, watch Pastor Craig Groeschel’s introduction as he describes his VBS experience. The speaking starts around time marker 2:30 and his story concludes around the 5:00 mark:
Next, listen to Tadd Grandstaff, of Pine Ridge Church in Graham, NC, as he appears to use Pastor Groeschel’s material, as his own, in first person:
So are we to believe that both of these men had the same experience, at the same age, with the same details, exactly as described in first person by both of them?

Both men had a neighborhood vacation bible school, when they were 8 years-old, sat Indian-styled in a circle in the driveway, ate the cookie, drank the Kool-Aid, both were the only one to raise their hand and be taken to the garage to be told the same thing, with the same intonation, both race home and hide in the closet and pray the same prayer, and both fall asleep in terror of the same thing, and praying the same thing? I’m serious! I don’t believe it!

Ok, it may be unpopular to say, but it seems to be that one of these men is lying to his congregation.
I am not certain who wrote or first preached the sermon. I assume Pastor Groeschel’s is the author since he is the one giving his material away for free. Perhaps one of them can share with us those details, and if they approve of the other’s use of their material in this manner?

But to the one who copied the other I ask, why not just show the video of the other guy? Why not tell the congregation he wrote it and tell the story in third person? Do people really believe God is using the copier as an oracle for His message, when he is deceptively claiming he “remembers it as if it was yesterday,” while in reality it never really happened in his own history?

Besides the blatant audacity of copying another person’s sermons and presenting them as your own material, while simultaneously claiming that “God has spoken to me, so plainly, there is even more shocking aspects to this than first meets the eye.

For starters is the observation that there is no apparent shame in this by its proponents. In responding to similar criticism in the past, this practice is not denied, but bragged about and promoted. Steven Furtick says “if my bullet fits your gun, shoot it” as he boasts that everyone is really doing this, so it therefore must be justified. Gary Lamb, and Tadd Grandstaff of his famous “Stupid People” rant, call it “collaboration.” In the comments on Tadd’s blog, Gary mocks those who would dare question such methods. However, in claiming “collaboration” for the message both Tadd and Gary preached, neither chose to reveal that Perry Noble actually preached a very similar sermon earlier than either one of them! Did they “collaborate” with Noble too? If so, why not mention that at this time?
Furtick is correct to acknowledge that pastors share anecdotes, stories, and illustrations. However, pastors who have integrity quote their sources and give credit, or acknowledge another writer, even if the original writer is anonymous. He is simply wrong that most pastors do what these guys are doing! Most pastors certainly do not recite entire sermons as if they wrote them, nor do they quote specific detailed experiences as first-person testimony when the events really never happened to them. To do either is blatantly dishonest and out of line for a Christian, much less a pastor.

The second thing that deserves pointing out is what this type of “preaching” does to the image of preachers, Christians, and to the church, in the eyes of the unbelieving world. Moreover, when this point is contrasted against their own stated goals, the hypocrisy and inconsistency is glaringly obvious. For example, Tadd Grandstaff in his “I Hate Christians” message (which is eerily similar to chapter one of Craig Groeschel’s book Confessions of a Pastor) rants and rails about how traditional and orthodox churches have disenfranchised a demographic of our culture with their lack of genuine faith practice, lack of authenticity, and abundance of hypocrisy, and how it is the goal of his church to “reach” these people. There certainly is no denying that there are those who have had bad church experiences who need to be reached with the gospel, but is it ethical or even pragmatic to try to reach them with more lack of genuine faith practice, more inauthentic behavior, and more hypocrisy?

Unfortunately this practice is not new as a way to disgrace the pulpit. In this piece by Terry Mattingly, the Rev. Scott Gibson, director of the Center for Preaching at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, recalls an experience A. J. Gordon had in 1876, said,
“”This is not a new problem,” said Gibson. “Some people think the World Wide Web came along and suddenly you had thousands of pastors copying other people’s sermons with a few clicks of a mouse. But there has always been a lot of laziness out there.”
Mattingly continues,
“In his study, Gibson defines “plagiarism” as preaching someone else’s sermon research or content without giving public credit for it.”
The article continues to pontificate on the legitimacy of this practice and the burdens pastors face, but rightly concludes which behaviors should be considered appropriate, and which are over the line,
“But all preachers read and hear stories and insights that they want to share with their flocks. It makes a sermon more colorful to feature a quotation by an author “who simply says something better than you can,” … Attributing direct quotes also adds authority, especially when quoting figures such as Martin Luther, C.S. Lewis or Billy Graham.
This is safe territory. The danger is when pastors appropriate entire outlines or sermon texts and claim them as their own. Perhaps the strongest temptation is to personalize anecdotes that happened to other people.
But it only takes seconds, noted Gibson, for a preacher to cite the source of a story or to say something like, “I heard a great sermon on this biblical text by pastor so and so and I want to share some of his insights with you.”… It’s easy for preachers to play it straight, said Gibson. The question is whether many congregations have become so mesmerized that they will overlook plagiarism.
Sadly he concludes, that,
“Some churches today just don’t care.”
Fortunately for some this is still considered a matter of integrity and taken seriously by those who esteem the Word of God. Pastor Lenny Stringer speaks of the views of Jim Donahue, president of the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, California and a specialist in ethics,
“the use of sermons without attribution is fundamentally a credibility issue of the preacher. “The congregation has an implicit set of expectations about the minister, that there’s going to be trust, authenticity. If a preacher is not attributing his words, then a violation of that credibility occurs,” says Donahue. While Donahue agrees the message is more important than the messenger, he says any lack of credibility on the part of the preacher will “erode the quality of the interaction between the preacher and his congregation.”"
Another point that is commonly missed with this practice, is exactly who is getting robbed! Debates can go on and on about who’s copying whom, whether permission is being obtained or not, and regarding giving credit where it is due, but what about the congregation that is getting cheated? In this article by Doug Smith, Who’s Robbing Whom? Some Thoughts on Pulpit Plagiarism, he writes,
“And the interesting thing is that the people who suffer the most are not the people whose material is being used, but the people who are stealing it and the people who are having it fed to them.
He goes on to list (and expound upon) five ways in which pulpit plagiarism robs pastors and congregations:
1. Pulpit plagiarism robs pastors and congregations of spiritual nourishment they can get only from someone who lives among them and labors in the text of Scripture.
2. Pulpit plagiarism robs pastors and congregations by discouraging consecutive exposition.
3. Pulpit plagiarism robs pastors and congregations by encouraging laziness.
4. Pulpit plagiarism robs pastors and congregations of a safeguard against false teaching.
5. Pulpit plagiarism robs pastors and congregations by rendering thieving preachers obsolete.
As I read through Mr. Smith’s article I was humored by his quoting Warren Wiersbe’s warning from page 226 of his book, Walking with the Giants,
“One young preacher was so taken with the sermons in a certain book that he decided to preach them as a series. What he did not know was that one of his members owned the same book and had read it. As the member left the service one Sunday, he said to his pastor, “That was a fine sermon this morning!” Then he added with a smile, “Next week’s is good, too!” The problem, of course, lies not with the character of the printed sermon but with the character of the preacher reading it.” (or citing it from memory)
What saddened me about this story was that the church member didn’t seem to mind, what humored me about it was that I’d had a very similar experience while discussing this issue with a member of Tadd Grandstaff’s congregation.

When I explained to the congregant that Tadd’s sermon “All In Life: What Are You Going All In For?, appeared to be taken from a study called Chase The Lion by Mark Batterson, which is based on his book, In a Pit with a Lion on a Snowy Day, he claimed that he not only knew it, but had previously read the book himself, and recognized it when Tadd was preaching it as his own (ironically, this same sermon was preached a week before Tadd by Gary Lamb in “All In Living,”). Maybe I’m old school, but it is sad to me that this lack of integrity doesn’t bother some people any longer.

Fortunately, some churches and people still have enough concern over this issue that they regard it as a reason for a pastor to resign, as Calvary Church’s Glenn Wagnor did, after a congregant accidently stumbled upon his similar behavior.

In conclusion, there is obviously room for disagreement within the church over exactly how a pastor prepares a sermon. I personally believe a pastor should be spending time in God’s Word, praying over the text, and preparing what the Holy Spirit has to say to the church. There are others with whom I would disagree who believe a steady diet of shared, purchased, and downloaded outlines and Scripture texts is sufficient. We can have that disagreement and probably always will. However, the question I ask the reader in this article is: Have we sunk so far that we can no longer spend enough time in God’s Word to prepare original messages of God’s truth, relevant for today, without compromising the integrity of the pulpit? Does the gospel of Jesus Christ need this type of preaching in order to reach lost souls?

Thai Another One On



Moral has left a new comment on your post "Thai One On with Dave Kehl - Genius Advisor to the...":

update on the update:

it looks like Pasch did take the call he issued to himself; it just took two months to deliberate.

http://messenger.wels.net/pipermail/callrept/2010/002913.html

Many have heard of the recent political turmoil in Thailand. What didn't make the headlines over at CNN is the political coup staged by this committee within the WELS.

WELS Members Thought It Was Just a Problem in Appleton


Plagiarism Lines Blur for Students in Digital Age
By TRIP GABRIEL
Published: August 1, 2010


o

At Rhode Island College, a freshman copied and pasted from a Web site’s frequently asked questions page about homelessness — and did not think he needed to credit a source in his assignment because the page did not include author information.

Jessica Kourkounis for The New York Times

Sarah Brookover, left, a senior at Rutgers University in New Jersey, with Vibiana Bowman Cvetkovic, a reference librarian.
Cheat Sheet

Telling Right From Wrong

Articles in this series examine cheating in education and efforts to stop it.
Related

*
Cheat Sheet: Under Pressure, Teachers Tamper With Tests (June 11, 2010)
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Cheat Sheet: To Stop Cheats, Colleges Learn Their Trickery (July 6, 2010)

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At DePaul University, the tip-off to one student’s copying was the purple shade of several paragraphs he had lifted from the Web; when confronted by a writing tutor his professor had sent him to, he was not defensive — he just wanted to know how to change purple text to black.

And at the University of Maryland, a student reprimanded for copying from Wikipedia in a paper on the Great Depression said he thought its entries — unsigned and collectively written — did not need to be credited since they counted, essentially, as common knowledge.

Professors used to deal with plagiarism by admonishing students to give credit to others and to follow the style guide for citations, and pretty much left it at that.

But these cases — typical ones, according to writing tutors and officials responsible for discipline at the three schools who described the plagiarism — suggest that many students simply do not grasp that using words they did not write is a serious misdeed.

Monday, August 2, 2010

Does This Sound Like Columbus, Ohio WELS?

BENNY HINN AND PAULA WHITE: COLLUSION OF RESPONSES

Republished from Surph’s Side with permission:
The lawyers of Benny Hinn and Paula White sure have been busy coming up with a response they both could print. Unfortunately for them, it proves this has been a collusion and that they are orchestrating things together. Inspired by Ken Silva at Apprising Ministries, I decided to show “side-by-side” (blogspot won’t let me do side-by-side columns), their words which are nearly verbatim, with only minor differences. This is underhanded to manipulate their followers as well as the media. However Scripture says those of God do not use such tactics:
2Co 4:1 Therefore, having this ministry by the mercy of God, we do not lose heart. 2 But we have renounced disgraceful, underhanded ways. We refuse to practice cunning or to tamper with God’s word, but by the open statement of the truth we would commend ourselves to everyone’s conscience in the sight of God.
Both Hinn and White are not of Christ as their doctrines and practices prove. Therefore, collusion, underhandedness, demanding $2 million (to pay for this collusion?), is not a shock nor a surprise. Its just more proof they are false prophets/teachers and they are two birds of a feather.
The National Enquirer:
Paula White’s Response
Last Friday, the National Enquirer released a dishonest and misleading article which falsely characterized my friendship with Pastor Benny Hinn. The publication, which is known for its bias and slanting of the truth, tries to mislead readers regarding the ministerialrelationship and friendship I have had with Pastor Benny for over 20 years.
Benny Hinn’s response
As you may be aware, the National Enquirer recently released a dishonest and misleading article which falsely characterized my friendship with Paula White. The publication, which is known for its bias against religious figures, misleads readers regarding the ministerial friendship I have had with Paula White for over 20 years.
May’s taping of “This Is Your Day”:
Paula White
In late May of this year, I went to tape a “This Is Your Day” broadcast with Pastor Hinn.Although I had not seen him in years, the taping gave us the opportunity to catch up on what has transpired in both of our lives. As someone who also endured a painful and public divorce, I was able to offer him insight and spiritual encouragement. Since that time we have continued to talk and our friendship has grown stronger but has remained morally and spiritually pure.
Benny Hinn
In late May of this year, Paula White came to tape a This Is Your Day broadcast with me.Although I had not seen her for years, she was an encouragement to me and shared helpful advice out of her own painful experience. As a result, I will not deny that the friendship has strengthened, and, while it has remained morally pure at all times, I have enjoyed the company of someone who has also gone through the trauma of a painful and public divorce.
Forcefully renounce and not morally impure :
Paula White
I publicly profess and forcefully renounce assertions that the recent trip to Italy to meet with Vatican officials suggests that the friendship is in any way improper or morally impure.
Benny Hinn
And so I am writing to tell you today that I forcefully, categorically, and absolutelyrenounce the lies that have been spread about me and want to set the record straight with you. There is nothing inappropriate or morally improper about my friendship with Paula White.There has been no immorality whatsoever!
Traveled indepentantly and never alone:
Paula White
We traveled independently to the region for respective ministry duties and, while there,spent time together along with others. We were never alone and were in the constant company of staff and other associates.
Benny Hinn
The truth is that we traveled independently to the region for respective ministry duties….Paula was likewise invited to have meetings in the region, and, although we spent time together, we were never alone and were in the constant company of staff and family members.
The original appears at Surph’s Side with a comments section right here.
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Mrs. Hinn has her own ministry.
Here is Benny's shocked statement that his wife was leaving him and filing. They were living apart.
Fire on the kids - sick manipulation of the vulnerable.

Craig Groeschel Fact Page




How To Plagiarize Legally

Groeschel on Plagiarism

Screaming is a typical Reformed gimmick
to sell the Gospel, to be entertaining.

Intrepid Lutherans on Groeschel.

Craig Groeschel preaching.


Craig Groeschel and Andy Stanley (Babtist) often conduct Catalyst conferences together. This is a fairly recent one.

Groeschel was born in 1967 in Texas, grew up in Oklahoma, attended a Methodist university (Oklahoma City U.) and pursued a degree in marketing. He attended Philips Seminary, which is affiliated with the ultra-liberal Disciples of Christ, the denomination of Jim Jones and Donald McGavran.

He married Amy in 1991. They have six children.

He was a United Methodist minister in 1995 when the Oklahoma City bomb blew up the federal building and severely damaged the nearby church where he worked.

In 1996 he began a church in a two-car garage, apparently because his denomination did not want him to start a mission church. Like Hybels of Willow Creek, he began with a marketing survey. The church grew rapidly and became Life Church - with the URL of LifeChurch.tv.

The New York Times reported:
He set up a website for people to post "secret confessions," an idea copied by Pastor Ski at The CORE.

The Catholic Church noted this new trend started by Groeschel.

USA Today says:

"Of the USA's 100 largest churches, 67% now have two or more sites and 60% of the 100 fastest-growing churches also have multiple sites, according to the annual listings of the USA's largest churches in Outreach magazine's October issue."



The most innovative churches in America are:

· LifeChurch.tv (Edmond, OK) :: Craig Groeschel

· Mars Hill Church (Seattle, WA) :: Mark Driscoll

· Granger Community Church (Granger, IN) :: Mark Beeson

· Flamingo Road Church (Cooper City, FL) :: Troy Gramling

· Seacoast Church (Mt. Pleasant, SC) :: Greg Surratt

· Saddleback Church (Lake Forest, CA) :: Rick Warren

· Mosaic Church (Los Angeles, CA) :: Erwin McManus

· Fellowship Church (Grapevine, TX) :: Ed Young Jr.

· North Point Community Church (Alpharetta, GA) :: Andy Stanley

· Willow Creek Community Church (South Barrington, IL) :: Bill Hybels

· National Community Church (Washington, DC) :: Mark Batterson


"Granger broke the rules when his church plastered mylamesexlife.com billboards around the local city, which stirred debate among Christians and a media storm. LifeChurch.tv went out of bounds when it launched the multi-site movement, which includes an internet campus for worship services. And Life Church's senior pastor, Craig Groeschel, broke the rules when he went into bars to meet "the sick" and tell them about Jesus."


Groeschel motto: "In order to reach those that no one else is reaching, we will have to do things that no one else is doing," he said.

Groeschel began as a United Methodist minister but is an Evangelical Covenant minister now. The Evangelical Covenant church is Pietistic and related to the Swedish Augustana Synod which merged into the LCA in 1962.

Groeschel's thoughts about the United Methodists can be found linked here.

He claims 21,000 in attendance each week.

He may not have been the first to promote multiple sites, but he is known for them now. He began using video when his fourth child was born and he could not lead services.




Blusterers for Christ Responds with the Usual Charm Offensive





Greetings:

There was a recent posting on your webpage called Building Better Prisons. There was information on the page that is false. The Builders For Christ program is not looking to build a church in Thailand. We were asked if we knew of anyone that might have interest in supervising the building of a small church. I supplied names of some individual that might have a interest. This is not a project of the Builders program. I would suggest that before you publish information that you check the facts instead of just running at the mouth. You not helping any when you have no idea what you are writing.

Building to His Glory,

Dale Mueller, Director

Builders for Christ

***

GJ - Nice to hear from you, Dale. I posted what someone heard, based on his extensive connections and thorough research. I reread the post. No concrete plans were announced. I believe the idea was to remind people of how much was spent on Prairie just before it was given away to the state.

The Shrinker faction forced WELS into an emergency purchase of the campus, a Catholic school far away from the WELS population.

The point is - WELS has wasted millions and is likely to waste even more.

I suggest reading all 4,000 posts on Ichabod before writing a caustic email message.



Lutheran Situational Awareness Test




Sunday, August 1, 2010

Unbearable Dumbness of WELS -
Minnesota District Holds Youth Rally in Appleton: Love-N-Ex Rules



Learn from the best.


I got out Google Maps and found that the concentration of WELS members in the People's Republic of Minnesota live far away from Appleton, Wisconsin, a circuit known for plagiarism, unionism, and the Popcorn Cathedral of Rock.

District youth rallies are normally hosted in the same district, simply because travel becomes a hardship and also a cost on top of room and board.

So why did this happen? This event is an example of solidarity among the Church and Money Changers. I imagine the two DPs got together and struck a deal to show WELS who was running the show.

Alternately, WELS members need to face the facts about the other administration. They voted for SP Schroeder, but a shadow government runs WELS - The Love Shack in Exile, or Love-N-Ex. The apostates pushed out of power are united in their lust to regain power, not that they have lost much. They all have plush salaries and positions - Kelm, Bruce Becker, and the rest.

Their odious lobby continues - Church and Change. When a few people got together for a cooperative blog, WELS had a collective hissy-fit and worried that I was involved.

I am guessing that Appleton is tottering from all the attention on this blog. This Minnesota road trip is a way to shore up their apostate friends and to prove the Love-N-Ex is in power, even though not officially in office. Elections are an adiaphoron. What matters most is what people do - what they believe, teach, and confess.

In Appleton, they confess Groeschel, Driscoll, Sweet, and Stanley.

Taxpayers Members are paying for this through their offerings.

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rlschultz has left a new comment on your post "Unbearable Dumbness of WELS -Minnesota District Ho...":

A government in exile (gov-n-ex) occurs when rulers have to physically move because of an invasion from the outside or an internal coup. The gov-n-ex takes residence with a nation that is sympathetic to them or perhaps has a symbiotic relationship with them. Here is the key: the gov-n-ex still makes the claim of legitimacy. They maintain that they are the duly elected or appointed leaders. Their hope is to physically move back to where they were once the craziness ends.

This would be the case with the Love-N-Ex. They consider their situation temporary. It is the drunken sailor three steps forward one step back scenario. It also gives them some feedback about what not to do. They may try to be even more underhanded and less brazen.

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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Unbearable Dumbness of WELS -Minnesota District Ho...":

You got that right, the "Unbearable Dumbness of WELS," but for the wrong reason. If you are going all the way to Wisconsin for a youth rally, might as well have it at the Wisconsin Dells water parks. That would put the Arizona districts youth rally at the Wet N' Wild water park to shame!

http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2010/07/wels-youth-mystery.html

excerpt: We spent a day at the Wet N' Wild water park and enjoyed mixer games and devotions.

The Minnesota Youth Rally in Appleton WI web page is here:

http://www.welscyd.net/site/default.asp?sec_id=180000504

***

GJ -

Bruce, that would deny the teens their chance to tour the Thrivent home office in Appleton, aka LB-N-Ex.