Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
Conference
of Presidents
January 4-9,
2013
A G E N D A
Saturday, January 5
8:30 a.m. Bible study (wives welcome!) John
Seifert
District
President Seifert led us in a Bible study on 1 Peter, making reference to
particularly the matter of suffering unjustly as a Christian in the world
today. [GJ - This is especially ironic, since the DPs cause so much of it, with their apostasy, hardness of heart, and persecution of the Gospel.]
9:00 a.m. Plenary session – preliminary business
Consent agenda
CA.01 Minutes, October 2011 meeting and November and December 2011
teleconferences1
Motion made, seconded, and
carried to accept.
P.01 Approval of the agenda
P.02 President’s report
President Schroeder reported on
the progress of the sale of the two properties that the synod owns. There are a couple of prospective offers on
the table. CMO still looks good for the
end of the year. Subscriptions for next
year already look encouraging.
P.03 Preview and initial discussion of committee
tasks
P.04 Future meetings and significant dates
April 3-5 @ SAB 8:30 AM Wednesday to Noon
Friday
May
16-18 (at MLC)
May
16-17: Assignments
(begins 8:00 am)
May
17 MLC
Commencement concerts (4:00 &7:30 PM)
May
18 MLC Graduation
(10 AM) and call service (2:30 PM)
May
20 Meet
at SAB
May
21-24 (at WLS)
May
21: Vicar
assignments (begin 8:00 am)
Vicar
call service (7:00 pm)
May
22: Pastor
assignments (begins 8:00 am)
May
23: WLS Call day
service (10:00 am)
May
24: WLS Graduation
(10:00 am)
July
29-August 1 Synod
Convention at MLC
10:00 a.m. Plenary session – personnel
P.05 Green sheet review and update 1
The DP’s spend a considerable
amount of time discussing various situations in their districts where
individuals would benefit from the ability to consider a call.
P.06 Interviews, inquiries, and colloquy update
P.07 Special situations
A number of special situations
were discussed and district presidents offered advice to those who brought up
the particular situations in their district.
P.08 Retirement calls
P.09 Vacancy profile
A poll of the districts
indicated about 30 parish pastor vacancies, 6 part-time, 2 professorships and 5
others, for a total of 43 vacancies. Preliminary
1:30 p.m. Plenary discussion (see list) or
possible committee meetings
3:15 p.m. Plenary discussion or possible committee
meetings
Sunday, January 6
Morning Worship at area churches
The
member of the COP divided up to attend local WELS congregations. Several served as preacher for the day and
several led Bible studies at the congregations.
Afternoon Group activity
Monday, January 7
8:00 a.m. Bible study John Seifert
Pastor Seifert
continued with his study of the ways in which we, as Christians, may have to
suffer for our faith. We concluded our
devotion with the singing of a hymn.
Tuesday, January 8
8:30 a.m. Bible study John Seifert
Pastor
Seifert continued his study of 1 Peter and led us in a discussion of how
suffering for Jesus’ sake affects us particularly as pastors and district
presidents.
9:00 a.m. P.10 Plenary: Calling for CCC director
A
call was extended by the COP to Jonathan Hein to serve as the CCC
director. This call is a limited (2
year) call, and requires the individual called to still serve in his present
parish, but would be assigned a graduate assistant to compensate for the time
he spends on establishing the CCC program.
9:30 a.m. P.11 Plenary: NPH presentation 1 John Braun
Rev.
John Braun joined out meeting to explain a variety of things that NPH has in
the works, including a possible catechism revision, an update on the plans for
the 500th anniversary celebration of the Reformation, and Forward In
Christ.
Catechism survey
The
Kuske text has not been revised in quite a few years. NPH sent out a survey that helped them
determine what kind of catechism they should seek to produce for pastors, if a
revision/new type of catechism is to be made.
A number of very interesting “reflections” were formulated from the
information that the pastors sent back. NPH will continue to work toward the
production of materials that will assist pastors in teaching the catechism/doctrines of Holy
Scripture to the youth in their congregations.
Reformation 500
A
logo for the celebration has been produced, three Bible studies will be made
available, DP’s are being encouraged to assign district essays focusing on our
Lutheran heritage, district rallies are encouraged, NPH will reissue several
books on Lutheran topics, a biography on Luther is being reviewed, and a new
work on the Augsburg Confession is being prepared.
FIC Centennial
NPH
continues to provide a voice for the WELS through FIC. AT present FIC is self-supporting. In order to not jeopardize the revenue stream
that keeps FIC self-supporting it is looking at ways to go digital.
10:45 a.m. P.12 CECW presentation James Huebner
Vice
President James Huebner presented the resolutions that the CECW hopes to send
to the 2013 synod convention with the approval of the COP. The
members of the COP thoroughly discussed the proposed resolutions. VP Huebner took note of the discussion and
stated that he would take the gist of the discussion back to his
committee.
11:30 a.m. Plenary discussion
1:00 – 5:00 Committee meetings
5:00 p.m. Adjournment
Wednesday, January 9
7:00 a.m. Plenary discussion and/or resolutions
8:30 a.m. Bible study John Seifert
Pastor
Seifert continued with his Bible study on “Our Savior Surrounds Our Suffering,
based on 1 Peter.
9:00 a.m. Plenary discussion and/or resolutions
11:00 a.m. Adjournment
COP
January 2013
Called Workers Committee
W.01
Develop Guidelines for retirement calls
Background: There
are currently no comprehensive guidelines for congregations and called workers
when retirement calls (or “semi-retirement calls”) are being contemplated.
The Called
Worker Committee recommends the following revised guidelines be adopted:
Wisconsin Evangelical
Lutheran Synod
Conference
of Presidents
Guidelines for Congregations
Considering Calling
A Retired Pastor To
Serve
Definition: A retirement call is a one year renewable call
extended by a congregation to an individual who has fully retired, which will
allow him to work less than 20 hours per week (in order to comply with WELS
VEBA pension requirements and Social Security requirements if applicable.)
Criteria for Congregations
- The congregation will pay an
appropriate amount of compensation for the work that is required. The congregation will arrange for all
allowable tax deductions, including utilities and mileage allowance.
Reasonable moving expenses should be provided for the pastor when he
arrives and when he leaves. The congregation should consider paying the
retirees’ health insurance premiums.
- The congregation will provide
adequate housing, if needed.
- The congregation will do its best
to maintain reasonable congregation mission offerings.
- The pastoral work requested
should be limited in scope and spelled out in writing. (Congregations should keep in mind the
amount of preparation time required for various pastoral duties.)
5. A formal call should be issued with
the right of mutual renewal each year.
Guidelines
for Retirees Considering
A Retirement Call
Qualifications: The pastor who is considering a retirement
call….
- Should be in general good health.
- Should be flexible regarding type
of service and willing to work toward congregational growth (not just in a
holding operation of a “dying” congregation).
Guidelines
for District Presidents
- A questionnaire will be sent out
by the synod office to all pastors
60 years of age and older to determine those interested in a retirement
call.
- District Presidents are
responsible for disseminating information to pastors on opportunities to
serve after their retirement.
- District Presidents will have
access to a data base listing those interested in receiving a retirement
call.
- District Presidents should share
locations where retired men could serve.
ADOPTED
W.02
Caribbean ministerial education
Background: The
WELS mission in the Caribbean has made proposals regarding the training of
“native” workers.
The Called
Worker Committee recommends the adoption of The Caribbean Ministerial Education
Proposal. ADOPTED
W.03
Teacher certification revisit
Background: This
issue was discussed at a previous meeting and a resolution was passed. Due to communication problems, however, the
COP misunderstood the concerns of MLC and the adopted resolution did not
address those concerns.
We
concur with the opinion that training for the teaching ministry in the WELS is
best accomplished at MLC. However, we
do not feel that the moratorium proposed by the MLC Administrative Council will
solve the problem of using the certification program as an alternative to an
individual receiving his or her teaching degree at MLC. Therefore we reiterate our recommendation
that the COP not adopt this proposal. ADOPTED
W.04 Changing minds on retirement plans
Background: There
have been instances in which called workers have announced certain retirement
plans and dates, only to “change their minds” later as the date
approached. This causes difficulties for
congregations making plans for the future.
The
Called Worker Committee does not see this as a major issue requiring the
formation of a policy. The Called Worker
Committee asks that District Presidents include in their district or conference
reports an encouragement to those who have officially reported to their
congregation and/or the synod their plans to retire, not to rescind their
decision once it has been made.
W.05
Provisional calls for non-MLC graduates in specialty call
Background: It
is recognized that there are times when a non-MLC graduate will be called to
serve in an area requiring a specialization not provided by MLC. Since such calls are extended to
non-certified teachers, by policy those calls should be extended provisionally.
Since
there is already a policy that states that non-certified teachers who receive
calls should be given provisional calls, the committee feels that there is no
need for a policy designed specifically for those who have “specialty calls”?
W.06
Use of recent MLC graduates on call lists
Background: There
have been questions regarding the time when a graduate of MLC can receive
his/her first call.
The Called Worker Committee concurs with District President Guse, who has
suggested that “ no graduate of MLC be used on a call list until having fully completed
three years of service” in the call to
which he or she was assigned. ADOPTED
W.07 Initial Compensation For Second
Career Graduates
The Called
Worker Committee reaffirms the current practice when it comes to initial
compensation for second career graduates.
We also recommend that, if possible, the nature of and duration of
previous career experience be made available both in the seminary graduates assignment
book and on Progress. ADOPTED
W.08
Pastoral Staffing Of Smaller Ministry Settings
The Committee
decided to defer this item until our April meeting in order to have more time
to consider the ramifications.
Rev. David
Rutschow, Chm Rev. Robert
Pasbrig Rev. D.J.
Engelbrecht
Rev. James Huebner Rev.
Donald Patterson
Congregations
Committee Report
C.01 CCC Director position and plans
The Congregations Committee
reviewed the director position description and will present it to the COP prior
to issuing a call. (This was done and
the call was issued.)
C.02 Special offering for debt retirement
The Congregations Committee
recommends a special synod-wide offering for debt elimination commencing in
2015 and concluding with the 2016 district conventions.
Resolution for 2013 synod
convention:
SUBJECT: Debt Elimination
Resolution: 2015 Debt Elimination
Program
WHEREAS 1) five years ago a special
offering resulted in our synod’s capital indebtedness being reduced by $4.2
million from $22.4 million to $18.2 million; and
WHEREAS 2) since then the synod has
made payments against the debt and donors have contributed an additional
$700,000 towards debt elimination so that the debt now stands at $8.8 million
and is projected to be about $5 million by the 2015 convention; and
WHEREAS 3) the complete elimination of
WELS capital debt would impact our budget by a positive $1.6 million dollars;
therefore be it
RESOLVED a) that at the 2015 synod
convention a special synod-wide offering for debt elimination be launched; and
be it further
RESOLVED b) that all WELS congregations
be encouraged to participate in this offering and observance; and be it further
RESOLVED c) that we pray that God bless
this offering so that it would be successful in eliminating all synodical debt; and be it finally
RESOLVED d) that this special offering
and observance come to a conclusion at the 2016 district conventions.
Motion
carried.
C.03 Home Missions strategic plan
The Congregations Committee thanks
the BHM for sharing this document with it. It also thanks the Lord for our home
mission brothers and their dedicated efforts. It appreciates the time and
effort expended in producing this document. The committee members, however, did
not feel qualified to speak to the specifics of this document since it is
unaware of the background, issues, discussions, etc., that produced it. The
committee does suggest, however, that the BHM and its DMBs contact the
respective district president about congregations that they deem unhealthy.*
*Note:
This is the type of work that the newly initiated CCC will be doing.
C.04 Designated Day for Walking Together Sunday
The Congregations Committee
disagrees with the effort to select a particular Sunday of the year for the
Walking Together Sunday, but it encourages that the MCG continues producing the
excellent materials so that congregations can use them at their discretion as
has been done in recent years. ADOPTED
C.05 Final memorial for District Council
The
synod bylaws currently state:
ARTICLE XIII
District Council
Section 1. The districts shall have a district
council. The council shall be composed of the president, the vice presidents,
the secretary, synodical council lay member, the circuit pastors, the chairmen
of the district boards, commissions and committees and coordinators.
Section 2. The council shall meet at least once
a year to counsel together in matters pertaining to the welfare of the
district. At the discretion of the president, it may meet more often.
Section 3. The council shall nominate a slate of
candidates for election to the nominating committee of the district, composed
of at least two nominees for each position. The slate of
candidates shall be sent to the convention delegates at least 30
days prior to the
convention.
Section 4. The council shall submit a written
report of its activities to the regular district
conventions.
Section 1 (rewrite)
The districts MAY have a
district council which would be composed……
Section 5 (new)
In districts without district councils, the nomination of a slate
of candidates for election to the district nominating committee shall be done
by the circuit pastors of the respective conferences.
C.06 Final memorial for district legislation
committee
The
Congregations Committee agrees with the wording as is.
To: Convention
2013 Constitution Committee
From: WELS Conference of Presidents
Date: October 12, 2012
The WELS Conference of Presidents
requests that a change be made to the Constitution for the Districts, Article
XVII, Legislation Committee. Below is
that section, with proposed changes in red:
Section 1. If it is deemed to be
valuable to a given district, The president and vice presidents may appoint
a district legislation committee from each state in the district as the synod’s
interests may require or designate another standing district committee (e.g. the
District Constitution Committee) as the district legislation committee.
Section 2. The committee shall take
note of bills introduced into the state legislatures and provincial assemblies
in their district which may affect the interests of the synod. In cases where
the interests of the synod may be affected, the committee shall inform the
district president and the synod president. The district president and the
synod president shall take such action as they deem necessary.
C.07 Youth Rally timing
The Congregations Committee thanks
the Commission of Youth Discipleship for their information and rationale on the
timing of future youth rallies and encourages the CYD to continue its planning
and efforts.
Respectfully submitted,
Chairman, Rev. John Guse
COP
January 2013
Doctrine
Committee
D.01 Women professors at MLC
Background: Long-standing discussion item addressing
concerns about the role of women serving as professors at Martin Luther
College.
The Doctrine Committee will discuss this issue and present its findings
at a future meeting of the COP consistent with our doctrine and practice and
providing direction and guidance for remaining unresolved issues.
D.02 Women lectors in worship
Background: A COP member raised the question about the
propriety of using women as lectors in worship services. Initial consensus
agreed that this is a practice that should not take place in our churches in
view of the biblical statements on authoritative teaching as well as how the
divine call to the public ministry comes into play.
The Doctrine Committee will discuss this issue and determine whether this
matter should be addressed by COP policy resolution, a consensus agreement, or
by some other means.
D.03 Choir fellowship issue
Background: Questions have
been raised about the practice of Lutheran high schools and colleges having
non-WELS/ELS members as a part of choirs and other musical groups that
participate in worship services.
For resolution by the COP:
The Doctrine Committee would like reaction and feedback from the
plenary COP in preparation for a meeting with the executive committee of the
Association of Lutheran High Schools (ALHS). The Doctrine Committee would like
to meet with the ALHS leadership to determine what issues our high schools and
colleges are wrestling with relative to this matter.
Following our meeting with the ALHS leadership, the Doctrine
Committee would like to produce a study document for use in our high schools
and colleges, so that we can grow together in our understanding of the Biblical
principles of fellowship and God-pleasing applications. We hope to achieve
consensus around God’s Word and consistency in practice across our synod.
D.04 Military Chaplaincy
Background: The COP has received a document suggesting a
possible change in the WELS view of the military chaplaincy.
The Doctrine Committee will react to the
document and determine if further action is required.
D.05 Question from seminary student on COP policies regarding pornography
Background: A seminary student working on his senior project
has asked for specific COP policies regarding the way that pastors involved
with pornography are dealt with.
The Doctrine Committee recommends
that due to its complex nature another topic be considered for a senior thesis
project.
Herb Prahl, Chairman
Jon Buchholz
John Seifert
Earle Treptow
Don Tollefson
Plenary
Discussion items:
PD.01 Called
workers with non-WELS spouses
·
One
item of discussion involved called workers who marry spouses that are not of our
fellowship and do not wish to join our fellowship. The COP has a policy in place already when it
comes to assigning graduates who are married or plan to be married to non-WELS
individuals, who are not in the process of becoming communicant members of the
WELS. It was moved that some sort of
procedure be put in place to flag those who are already serving who are married
to non-WELS spouses so that calling bodies would be aware that such a situation
exists before they would extend a call to such an individual.
PD.02 Intrepid Lutherans
·
Another item involved the Intrepid Lutheran website. There is a concern that those who still
wholeheartedly support this group by being “signers” are also supporting a
pastor who has been removed from the ministerium of the WELS for doctrinal
reasons, because he has been given a forum on their website. The consensus was that each district
president should approach pastors in their district who are listed as “signers”
on the website and determine whether or not they are in support of the false
doctrine that the suspended pastor espouses.
PD.03 Pornography
use among called workers
·
There
is a concern that there may be an increasing problem with the use of pornography
among called workers, reflecting a similar problem in our society in general. There are a number of programs available to
help deal with this problem, should a congregation or a district presidium be
faced with this issue.
PD.04 Post-CRM men
preaching (“licensed” preachers)
·
This
item was deferred by the Called Worker Committee in order for us to more fully
discuss the issue and its ramifications.
PD.05 Future of
the off-site meeting
·
There
should be funds available yet from the Thrivent
grant to continue the practice of one off-site meeting for one more year.
PD.06 Time of
Grace board membership
· President
Rutschow did not have anything new to report on the issue of Time of Grace and
its board membership. The SEW district
is continuing to work with TOG to resolve any issues that remain.
PD.07 Special
support payments
·
DP’s
were reminded that congregations are responsible for the 3 months support of
called workers whose calls are terminated or who resign for the good of the
kingdom. Thereafter the synod may
provide support for another 3 months (declining amount) if application is made. It should be noted that synod support is not
automatic, but that individuals who apply for synod support must submit
documentation on income and expenses on a monthly basis to determine whether/how
much support can be offered.
PD.08 Access to
Progress by former DP’s
·
Giving
access to Progress to former DP’s has not been a policy in the past. We do not feel that a change in policy in
this regard would be advisable.
PD.09 Appointment
of Caleb Bassett to the hymnal project
·
This
appointment was made.
2 COMMENTS:
1) cults tend to centralize power in the hands of a single individual or small group that is considered beyond question
2) they treat all questions about the group and its beliefs as intolerable challenges to the group's authority and authenticity
3) they demean all those who do not share their beliefs and sow fear and mistrust amongst their believers about all such people
4) they typically cut off all or most opportunities for members to interact freely with those outside the group
5) they take revenge upon those who choose to leave the group in ways which include cutting them off from all relationships with those who remain inside, confiscation of material goods and even physical harm
From "The Thin Line between Religions and Cults"
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/brad_hirschfield/2009/04/the_bright_line_between_religions_and_cults.html
+ Pr. Jim Schulz
Oh, and by the way...I have been a non-WELS signer now since 2011. I am in good company. :)
I will become more active again...It's time to shed the slide down the slippery slope..and let others know not to go down it.
Tim Niedfeldt
Point is, yes, you aren't even allowed to have your name next to someone who presents topics for discussion that may differ from the WELS' doctrine. If the WELS would ever be consistent, MLC should then, logically, stop hosting free conferences. WELS pastors should never present papers at any free conferences. I guess it's okay if they're live streamed and hosted at physical locations but once it's a blog it's criminal. It's also okay when it's Mark Jeske teaching alongside those outside of WELS' fellowship on how to do Ministry at the Change or Die conference (http://www.intrepidlutherans.com/2011/03/change-or-die-issues-etc-comments.html). They also should ask their brother in the ELS, Pastor Joseph Abrahamson, to stop contributing on Brothers of John the Steadfast (steadfastlutherans.org) or any WELS/ELS pastor from ever contributing a single comment on any forum where there are also people outside of WELS' fellowship. This is scary stuff if you really think about it. My mind keeps going back to the first comment on this thread. Well, at least DPs are actually examining the pastors in their District. Too bad it's not with Chemnitz's Enchiridion and too bad it's not to weed out those who are killing souls with the third use of the Law. Instead, it's to weed out those who teach along with the whole Catholic and Apostolic Church that sinners are justified and considered righteous by God, freely, by faith alone (Ap IV, 88-89) Witch hunt indeed, witch hunt indeed...
Christian Schulz
"The Holy See of Milwaukee"
Fellow laymen, ensure your pastor is preaching the Scriptures and upholding the Confessions. There is more at stake than congregational identification; our pastors have a unique responsibility for our souls and will be held accountable by God. Support these good pastors through your prayers and your voices.
Spenglergeist.
Joel Dusek
Aurora, Colorado
The book by Ronald Enroth, "Churches that Abuse", should be updated with this recent development.
LPC
1. An insecure leadership or governing authority who for some reason feel threatened. A historical example would be the Puritan ministry in 1690s Salem after the colony had lost its charter.
2. The perception (and only perception) of some secret, internal enemy that is blamed for all that is wrong with society (or in this case church). This enemy is organized, there is never just one, and there is some leader. At Salem, former minister George Burroughs was thought to be the leader or a secret society of witches.
3. An inquisition of some sort, meaning an effort to uncover members of this secret organization. Guilt or innocence is never the issue at these "trials". The point is to get the accused (who is already presumed guilty) to name names.
4. Overreach. Eventually, the witch hunt goes too far, and slowly the absurdity and flat out wrongness of it all becomes apparent. It usually takes some very brave souls to stand up to it, often to go down for it, for the thing to end. Giles Corey was pressed to death at Salem for refusing to offer a plea before the witch hunting court. His brave stand was a turning point. Guilty people do not die for principle.
It seems that Intrepid Lutherans have now become the "enemy within" as John Demos calls the victims of witch hunts. Let us hope that the absurdity of an inquisitorial witch hunt in WELS will become quickly apparent and that a rising swell out outrage will shame the powers that be into stepping back from the cliff.
Dr. Aaron Palmer
I can't see how, as a matter of principle, the actions of the WELS Council of Presidents can be faulted.
It seems only natural that the WELS would wish to assure itself that those who participate on this forum do not share in the opinions and positions of the person who was recently removed from the WELS.
And if they do, would they not also be duty bound to leave the WELS and find their church fellowship elsewhere?
I have been hearing this argument over and over. It is based on logical fallacy and faulty assumptions.
This silly notion of blog fellowship is rooted in a classic fallacy: Pastor Rydecki believes X. Pastor Rydecki is a member of Intrepid Lutherans. Therefore, all Intrepid Lutherans believe X. It would be like saying, Thrivent gives financial support to WELS. Thrivent gives financial support to ELCA. Therefore, WELS and ELCA are in full doctrinal agreement. The fallacy isn't even then applied consistently.
Moreover, why is it so difficult for people to read the original statement that we endorsed when we signed onto Intrepid Lutherans. It clearly explains what a signature here means and what it does not mean. So why is it logical to assume anything different? You are talking about pure "guilt" by association here, which was actually one of the strongest forms of evidence used against so-called witches in the early modern period.
I agree that the COP's job is to oversee doctrine and practice in WELS. I wish they would in fact! I would like someone, for example, to explain to me why it has allowed questionable (the kindest word I can use) practices adapted from heterodox sects to freely flourish in WELS. I hear the LCMS has the same problem. Seems like selective prosecution to me.
Dr. Aaron Palmer
Christian Schulz
"Owing to the Lutheran emphasis on justification and faith, it is natural that among us doctrinal presentation receives emphasis for the purpose of preaching the gospel. . . . by this term I understand such adhering to orthodoxy where the stress is shifted from faith to correct faith. . . . Such adherence to orthodoxy is primarily of an intellectual kind and functions by demanding and with an admixture of consciousness of one’s own being in the right or having everything right.
This bravado of orthodoxy feeds on the factious spirit which opposes the ecumenical spirit. For that reason it gets caught up in words instead of living in the facts. The result is traditionalism which has lost the spirit of the words, the spirit of the gospel. All of this is of a legalistic nature and opposes the gospel, and shows that in the course of doctrinal controversy the adherence to orthodoxy has deserted the basis of the gospel."
+ Pr. Jim Schulz
In regards to justification and Fr. Rydecki, again, the Lutheran Confessions are all (including the Scriptures of course) the pastors subscribe and swear to, as I hope you are aware. Not other booklets produced in the 90s or 30s, etc. So according to the WELS' doctrine, Article II of their constitution, Fr. Rydecki has done absolutely nothing heretical.
So with these two anecdotes, it should be be shown that neither of these men have violated WELS' doctrine according to Article II of their own/previous constitution. If the WELS wants to be honest they should include This We Believe in Article II of the constitution and get on that stat. Same with their old, and now ex cathedra, theses on fellowship.
Christian Schulz
To all readers, especially those engaged in this current discussion -
Many times over the past several months, I have said that I will not allow this blog to become absorbed in the justification debate going on in the WELS. I have said this to proponents on both sides and to various of our synod's leaders.
Upon further consideration, I have come to believe that I was wrong. I was being stubborn and arrogant. Who am I, after all? I do not "own" Intrepid Lutherans. It does not belong to me. If people want to debate this issue and want to do so on this blog, they should have the right to do so. While I may not think it is as important as, say, the translation issue, others may feel different. This is, after all, a "discussion forum," not a wholly-owned subsidiary of Pastor Spencer. I for one am not beyond admitting when I make a mistake or act arrogantly and prideful. This was not always the case in my younger days. I hope I have grown and matured in this regard, at least somewhat.
In addition, I believe I am following the thinking of Gamaliel, which God the Holy Spirit inspired St. Luke to record in Acts 5:33-42. Let Pastor Rydecki thoroughly explain exactly what he believes, and what he does not, and why. Let others argue and debate with him as much as they want. If his ideas are truly opposed to the Gospel of Christ, they will come to nothing. However, perhaps in the process we can all learn something, deepen our understanding, explain God's plan of salvation even better, and grow in our faith. Thus, I see it as a win-win situation. Again, if people don't want to debate this or even hear about it or see it on this blog, they will "vote" with their keyboards and wallets, and we will go out of business post haste!
Oh, and no one has asked me to step aside and allow this discussion, and I have not received any pressure or "advice" from either side. This is my own decision. For myself, I still hope to remain on the good Lutheran middle path, and serve mainly as a referee.
One thing: I urge both sides to keep your comments civil and brotherly. You can be firm, make strong statements, and even be strident and passionate. However, there is a big difference between a heretic and a damned heretic! If I see any comments which declare people on either side as "going to hell" or words to that effect, and I can reach the delete button first, they will not see the light of day. I hope my fellow moderators will follow me in this. Marquis of Queensberry debate rules, if you please.
OK, go to your corners and come out punching. And may God defend the right!
Pastor Spencer
Justification is by faith alone.
nnuf said.
Cf. Formula of Concord - Solid Declaration III:25
+ Pr. Jim Schulz
Rod Dietsche
In the spirit of fraternal admonishment,
Joe
So, to the IL signers, show your colours when they come around to ask you through your pastors whether or not you stand or oppose Pr. Paul Rydecki on Justification. It is not Pr. Rydecki who is forcing this, it is the COPs, so OK fair enough. I am quite glad that it is not Pr. Rydecki who is forcing the issue for it shows he has no interest in being divisive, but just to articulate his faith, his conviction, as to what he believes the Scripture teaches.
IMO, I do not think any IL can be in the middle here; at least if we read the statement made by the COPs as documented in this post. It appears an IL signer is required to state where he/she stands.
By not showing where you stand, by default you have announced your colour - it is yellow. Thus, let them know. This is a great opportunity to make your confession known.
LPC
So, to the IL signers, show your colours when they come around to ask you through your pastors whether or not you stand or oppose Pr. Paul Rydecki on Justification. It is not Pr. Rydecki who is forcing this, it is the COPs, so OK fair enough. I am quite glad that it is not Pr. Rydecki who is forcing the issue for it shows he has no interest in being divisive, but just to articulate his faith, his conviction, as to what he believes the Scripture teaches.
IMO, I do not think any IL can be in the middle here; at least if we read the statement made by the COPs as documented in this post. It appears an IL signer is required to state where he/she stands.
By not showing where you stand, by default you have announced your colour - it is yellow. Thus, let them know. This is a great opportunity to make your confession known.
LPC
What does this mean, to laity, who signed, those deemed non members?
What exactly, is being done & what are those who stand fast & firm, in for?
Heidi Stoeberl
I'm not sure, frankly, what this means. I have spoken to the synod President about this. It is my understanding that each District President will handle this in his own way.
I can say this much: I have had dozens of contacts from Pastors around the synod who have said they are not going to change the way they preach and teach, namely, that we justified freely by grace and saved by faith in Jesus given by the Means of Grace. To a man, they have deemed this debate "an argument over words." Ovbiously, Pastor Rydecki does not see it that way, and neither does the CoP. So, exactly how this will play out in the end - God alone knows. Again, I say, let Pastor Rydecki explain his position thoroughly and completely, and let the Pastors and people "test the spirits." (First John 4:1)
Thank you.
Pastor Spencer