Friday, August 1, 2014

Intrepid Lutherans Object - Tele-Tubbies of WELS Still at It

Jeske recently discovered that everything must change?
He, Lawrenz, Witte, and others formed a secret society
dedicating to changing everything - while denying it.
Church and Change - funded by WELS, promoted by WELS,
linked from the WELS website for a long time.

http://www.intrepidlutherans.com/2014/08/what-is-2015-christian-leadership.html

FRIDAY, AUGUST 1, 2014

What is the 2015 Christian Leadership Experience?



What is the 2015 Christian Leadership Experience?

by Mr. Vernon Kneprath
2015 Christian Leadership Experience has been a topic of posts and comments on at least two other blogs in recent days: The topic is no longer new, and some of the information and conclusions presented here may sound familiar. But the topic is significant enough to merit a post on Intrepid. I will strive in this post to make clear, conclusive statements about Experience, and provide supporting evidence, some of which may not have yet been touched on at other blog sites.

If the information at the website for the 2015 Christian Leadership Experience (www.christlead.com) is to be considered representative of the event, I would conclude that Experience:
  1. is ecumenical, interfaith, and interdenominational, even though it specifically targets WELS and those in fellowship with WELS.
  2. is theology of glory; with its primary focus on man’s works, not the Gospel or the Means of Grace.
  3. is endorsed by some high-level WELS and ELS leaders and pastors, as evidenced by their participation and roles in the event.
  4. bears no standards of or identity to Confessional Lutheranism.
I will explain some of the reasons for my conclusions shortly. But before that, consider the information taken from the FAQ section of the website regarding the target audience and the claims of Experience.
    The 2015 Christian Leadership Experience and its organizing partners are specifically inviting the people who make up our constituency, which is primarily WELS/ELS or CELC. However, the event is open to whomever is interested in building their leadership skills.

    As the objectives of the Leadership Experience were identified, we committed to identifying and presenting the best possible speakers on each leadership topic. A few of the speakers who are well-regarded as experts in their field are from outside the CELC (WELS/ELS) fellowship. We pray these speakers will bring value to attendees which has not been previously available to leaders and aspiring leaders in our fellowship.

    Conference attendance is not an act of fellowship. The one "fellowship" activity is the worship at devotions and the closing service. Just as we welcome our friends and visitors to our congregations' worship services so also we welcome them to the conference's devotions and closing service.
As shown by these statements, Experience:
  1. specifically targets WELS and those in fellowship with the WELS for the purpose of teaching skills pertaining to ministry.
  2. involves worship and prayer.
  3. involves speakers both inside and outside of WELS fellowship.
  4. includes the prayer that those outside WELS fellowship bring value to those to whom Experience is targeted.
Regarding the latter point, since this prayer is for secular and interdenominational participants to "bring value to", that is, have an influence on the attendees, this is arguably a violation of what Scripture teaches regarding fellowship, even though the claim is made to the contrary.

Returning to my conclusions regarding Experience, I will refer the reader to hyperlinks of various locations on the website www.christlead.com, and to other websites. In some cases, I will provide some of the content found at the hyperlinks I provide, to save the reader the time and trouble of having to search those hyperlinked webpages. These hyperlinks will provide what I consider to be supporting evidence for my conclusions.
  1. Experience is ecumenical, interfaith, and interdenominational, even though it specifically targets WELS and those in fellowship with WELS.

    There is much evidence for this. I will provide two examples.

      Example 1 -
        Refer to http://www.christlead.com/speakers.php and find “Speaker - Dr. Ravi I. Jayakaran.”

        Now refer to http://www.christlead.com/jayakaran.php for more information regarding Dr. Ravi. Here you will find the following:

          Dr. Ravi I. Jayakaran has more than 37 years of experience in poverty reduction and strategic development programs. Currently he is Vice President of Global Programs for MAP International (medical assistance programs), providing supervisory oversight and strategic support for all of MAP’s global programs. Dr. Jayakaran is also currently the Senior Associate for Integral (Holistic) Mission for the Lausanne Global Movement.

        The Lausanne Global Movement, as evidenced by the “Lausanne Covenant”, is an effort to “enter into a solemn covenant with God and with each other, to pray, to plan and to work together for the evangelization of the whole world”.

      Example 2 -
        The speaker web page,http://www.christlead.com/jayakaran.php, has the following footer:

          ©2014 Global Leadership Summit: All Rights Reserved.

          The Global Leadership Summit is associated with the Willow Creek Association. Read about the Willow Creek Association at http://www.willowcreek.org/aboutwillow/willow-creek-association

          Founded in 1991, the Willow Creek Association (WCA) is a not-for-profit organization that exists to help local churches thrive. The WCA stirs up and calls out the core leadership of churches around the world, encouraging them to follow their "holy discontent" as they build life-changing communities of faith. The WCA serves pioneering pastors and leaders around the world by curating inspirational leadership, intentional skill development, and experiences. Each year, the WCA serves more than 18,000 churches in 90 countries with vision, training, and resources.

    Experience is laced with references and linkage to ecumenical evangelical organizations and people.

  2. Experience is theology of glory; with its primary focus on man’s works, not the Gospel or the Means of Grace.

    Again, there is much evidence. I will provide two examples. Both examples relate to designated speakers ofExperience. Refer to http://www.christlead.com/speakers.php.

      Example 1 -
        Keynote Speaker - Ann Rhoades
        Ann is a Corporate Executive with over 25 years experience in a variety of service-based industries, is President of People Ink, her consulting company that helps organizations create unique workplace cultures based on values and performance and author of “Built on Values”.  She held the position of Vice President of the People Department for Southwest Airlines, and EVP for Promus Hotel Corporation and most recently, JetBlue Airways where she currently remains as a Board Member.

        Ann has a respected reputation in the industry for her creative approach to creating customer-centric cultures and is a popular speaker on the subject of customer service and how to build a strong high-performing culture.

      Example 2 -
        Speaker - Sharon Buck
        Sharon will discuss the perks and pitfalls of leading others when you have NO authority in their business/career. She will also discuss the importance of GODLY leadership and how it affects relationships for now... and in eternity. Truly, leading a volunteer army is challenging, sometimes frustrating but always rewarding. The lessons discussed will be helpful for ALL leaders!

    Notice the focus of these speakers:

    1. “customer centric” cultures, as if the Church can be treated as a business with the chief concern of satisfying customers.
    2. discussing “Godly” leadership, with no confession defining the basis of that Godly leadership.

    Experience is not about using God’s Word or the Means of Grace. This becomes very apparent when you view the event schedule. The presentation topics do not focus on what God has done for us, the true Gospel message, and the theology of the cross. “Experience” focuses on business techniques as if the Holy Spirit, through the Means of Grace, can no longer be effective in today’s culture.

  3. Experience is endorsed by some high-level WELS and ELS leaders and pastors, as evidenced by their participation and roles in the event.

    Again, there are many examples. I will provide three. Refer to http://www.christlead.com/speakers.php (worship leaders)

      Example 1 -
        Rev. Jon Buchholz is District President of the CA-AZ district of the WELS.

      Example 2 -
        Rev. Charles Degner is District President of the MN district of the WELS.

      Example 3 -
        Pastor Don Moldstad is Chaplain, Director of Campus Spiritual Life at Bethany Lutheran College (ELS).

    As evidenced by representation from the high levels of leadership in WELS and ELS, this event implies the full backing of these synods’ leadership.

  4. Experience, based on the information provided on the website, bears no standards of or identity to Confessional Lutheranism.

    Why do these event organizers and participants, WELS and ELS leaders and pastors, choose to use things other than God’s Word to train leaders of the church? The evidence of the conclusion that this event is non-confessional is found in the absence of the Word and the Means of Grace. Evidence abounds of Church Growth and fund raising objectives, but there is no evidence of God’s Word.

    Perhaps this can be explained by the “bait and switch” technique commonly used by Church Growth advocates. That is, focus on what culture values, and sometime later, once the subject has been “hooked”, the Gospel will be revealed and the Holy Spirit can then be allowed to do His work.
According to the information at the website www.christlead.comExperience is a gold mine of man-made business techniques, but a barren landscape of Scriptural truths.

And the devil looks just like Paul Calvin Kelm.
Conservative Episcopalians and those
leaving ELCA have used my graphics,
but the Lutherans dissenters do not.

Exclusive to Ichabod - Benjamin Wink Asks Some Questions


Benjamin Wink asked that this be published with his name on it:

I must raise a question with the worship conferences that are being held by the WELS.  The last conference was held at Gustavus Adolphus, an ELCA affiliated college, in St. Peter, MN which is literally spitting distance from Martin Luther College in New Ulm.  Despite millions being spent on the new Chapel of the Christ, it turns out that the chapel is just too small for major events, according to the official byline.  That’s right, too small.  Also I was told that as there is no air conditioning in the MLC dorms, the conference couldn’t be based there out of concern for the attendees.  However, last time I checked, New Ulm and Mankato have plenty of hotels that I’m sure would’ve loved the off season business, but never mind that. 

I also heard the excuse that food service wouldn’t be available at MLC during the conference time.  This is understandable if you don’t plan ahead to inform the food service that they will be paid and will be needed during those dates.  You could even set it up in their contract, which is novel, I know.  (As a former student, I could bring up that there wasn’t food service even when school was in session, but I digress.)

So the 2014 Worship Conference was upon us and where did the WELS decide to hold the event?  Why at Carthage College in Kenosha, WI, which is yet another ELCA affiliated college!  Oh but even better per this website http://www.wels.net/worship/2014-national-worship-conference which states that this is the 4th time the conference has been held there.  The fourth time?

I just have to ask this: why is a conference on worship held on a campus affiliated with ELCA, a synod that the WELS says they are not in fellowship with?  Are not worship services held during the conference?  After all this is a worship conference.  Given the boast that this is “the largest Lutheran worship conference in North America”, how in blazes does one get around the fellowship conflict?  And this is the 4th time?  So if I include Gustavus that is at least 5 of these conferences that have been held on an ELCA campus.  Well, that’s just great and lovely.    

Now let’s say that I condoned the excuse that the synod didn’t have a worship facility large enough for conferences of this sort in the past.  Fine, I can grudgingly grant that.  But now, there’s this multimillion dollar extravaganza in New Ulm that sat vacant this summer.  Why is the synod not using this location as their premier worship conference location?  After all, they own it, do they not?  Why not use it?  Why continually brag about this amazing edifice if you’re just going to let it get dusty during the summer months?  Why avoid using this centerpiece attraction when given this opportunity? 

The bottom line is that the synod doesn’t have to pay another church body in order to rent out facilities.  Yet the synod would rather support the ministry of ELCA by paying to use their facilities?  How can one rectify this nonsense?  “Oh but the Chapel of the Christ is far too small!”  I would suggest scheduling your “sessions” accordingly.  And given the attendance last time, you would have fit all of the attendees in that building for worship services in New Ulm without issue.  Obviously MLC also has plenty of classrooms and the like in order to conduct overflow sessions as well.  This is why they give the directors of these events years to plan ahead.


Imagine if “the largest Lutheran worship conference in North America” made New Ulm its home every single time?  MLC would get a terrific showcase and have a fraction of justification as to why they built that chapel in the first place.  Also, imagine how grateful the city and surrounding communities would be because of the influx of summer revenue.  What great bragging rights the synod could have indeed.  Instead, the synod is just nomadic and willing to shell out money to a church group that they say they want nothing to do with because of fellowship issues.  Well, except for when they choose to overlook that during worship conference time.  I can see why there would be a food service problem.  It is hard enough trying to feed one face, let alone those with two of them.


***

GJ - When I wrote about the first WELS pan-denominational conference at Carthage College, the Church of the Lutheran Confession (sic) went bonkers calling me a liar, etc. I had the poster on my desk when I wrote. Of course, the barrage came from Paul Tiefel in the CLC, first cousin of James Tiefel in WELS, the host and bartender for the conference.




Polluted WELS Looks at the Jeske Conference

A Travesty Examined, Part Three

The third keynote speaker needs no introduction.



That's right, folks, it's Je$ke.

Here's a description of his topic:

It is Pastor Jeske’s conviction after 35 years in the ministry that true leaders are change agents. But how do you bring about change in a change-resistant church culture? How can pastors be change agents? How can “just a lay person” make a difference? Pastor Jeske will bring stories from the amazing things God has been doing at St. Marcus in Milwaukee and Time of Grace Ministry.

Yes, that's right. Who cares about what Scripture or the Confessions say? Je$ke has a conviction--let's listen to that instead.

True leaders are change agents? What happened to Luther's conservative reformation? The Lutheran church is about retaining and conserving apostolic doctrine and practice, not about changing the church.

A change-resistant church culture? Those darn Confessionals who aren't willing to change one iota of Scripture for the sake of growth and glory. How dare we resist the great Je$ke?

What can laypeople do? Well, Luther would say that laypeople can enjoy the gifts of God given through his called ministers, but I'm guessing the correct answer is that laypeople can "make a difference" by giving more money to Je$ke.

A Travesty Examined, Part Two

The next keynote speaker at the 2015 Christian Leadership Experience is Dr. Ravi I. Jayakaran.



Here's what we're told about him: Dr. Jayakaran has developed the “Holistic Worldview Analysis”, and other new participatory tools to ‘measure what matters’ in community transformation and empowerment and to facilitate Holistic Integrated Development for Integral Mission.

I'm not sure if I can criticize that because I have no earthly idea what it means. I've studied English, Spanish, Latin, German, Greek, and Hebrew, but I'm not sure what language the paragraph above is written in. They seem to be English words, but when you put them all together they don't seem to actually mean anything.

In any case, they definitely don't have anything to do with the mission of Christ's Church.

Polluted WELS Answers Typical Synod Minder

Let No False Doctrine Me Beguile




FRIDAY, AUGUST 1, 2014


A Travesty Interrupted

We'll get back to our "Travesty" series in just a bit. First, though, we need to deal with a deliciously WELSian comment we just received. Here it is (with my comments interspersed) in honorary Lillo-pink:

This thread is a perfect example of why no one takes any of you seriously. 

No one takes any of who seriously? (Or is it any of whom?) Confessional Lutherans? You don't take Confessional Lutherans seriously? Maybe that's because you don't take the Confessions seriously.

None of you have even bothered to contact any of the leaders or discuss the matter with anyone at all who knows more about the conference or the presenter. 

Yes! Only the second sentence and we've already gotten the patented WELS "Matthew 18 Maneuver". Just a few problems:

  • Matthew 18 is about private sin, not public sin. In the case of public sin (and this conference is very public) a public rebuke is not only allowed, but required.
  • The conference website doesn't tell us who the "leaders" are. There are contacts for registration, marketing, and (of course) sponsors, but no mention of who's on the organizing committee.
  • You didn't contact me personally to discuss the matter with me. You just went right ahead and posted a public criticism of me. Hypocrisy--look it up.

You all just sit on computers and blog about what you assume to be true, and you have an inflated view of the importance of that process. 

You shouldn't sit on your computer. Very easy to break it that way. I'm simply blogging about what the conference website says (and doesn't say). An inflated view of the importance of what process? Blogging? Well, when you're not allowed to voice disagreement through official means, you have to use whatever's left.

This blog has quickly become a tabloid, not the valuable forum for discussion that it could have been.

Now I'm just confused. You just said that blogging isn't important. Now you say that this blog could have been valuable. Which is it? Is a blog only important and valuable as long as it doesn't actually criticize the WELS?

Wauwatosa started this creative and ever-changing theology fad in WELS,
but all they do is copy false teachers from the past
and marvel at their creativity and flexibility.

Polluted WELS - Now He Smells the Potroast - But One Fact Is Missing

Polluted WELSA Travesty Examined, Part One

This article is the first in a series examining the travesty that is the "2015 Christian Leadership Experience".

First, we'll take a look at the keynote speakers, starting with Sharon Buck. Sharon Buck is a Mary Kay saleswoman. Her keynote address is called "Leading a Volunteer Army". Here's a description of what she will talk about:



Sharon will discuss the perks and pitfalls of leading others when you have NO authority in their business/career. She will also discuss the importance of GODLY leadership and how it affects relationships for now... and in eternity. Truly, leading a volunteer army is challenging, sometimes frustrating but always rewarding. The lessons discussed will be helpful for ALL leaders!




So, we have a few problems here:
  • The gospel is not a product to be sold like over-priced make-up.
  • Her address is obviously not just informational in nature, it's religious (GODLY...).
  • Assuming she's not WELS, this religious teaching is a violation of fellowship principles.
  • Since she's a woman, this religious teaching is a violation of male headship.
    Did I miss anything?



    Anonymous said...
    The WELS stance regarding fellowship principles and male headship look good on paper. If Synod leadership won't respect these doctrines, then it is time to stop pretending they matter and to abolish them formally.

    [GJ - No, Anonymous, an abusive cult needs a host of rules that the leaders ignore while imposing Pharisaical burdens on everyone else. They all work with ELCA, especially their real SP - Mark Jeske. If you don't like the smell of the sewer - leave.]

     Anonymous said...
    It appears that Sharon Buck is a WELS member from Grace Lutheran Charlotte, NC.

    http://www.grace-charlotte.org/home/180007176/180007176/docs/September.October%20Newsletter.pdf

    She relocated from New Ulm and may have been involved with Jars of Clay Ministries.

    http://www.wels.net/news-events/forward-in-christ/april-2006/unleash-laypeople
    August 1, 2014 at 7:48 AM
    Anonymous Anonymous said...
    Since the conference seems to be OK with women in leadership roles in the church, here is a timely article:

    http://acelc.net/
    August 1, 2014 at 8:37 AM
    Anonymous Anonymous said...
    People can be so quick to fling mud without knowing all the details. Thank you for putting the best construction on things!
    Sharon Buck is not leading a worship service. She is not conducting a Bible study. She is sharing life experiences and how the Lord has guided her in her business life. What's wrong with learning, sharing, and rejoicing with fellow Christians who have a common sinful nature and Savior who clothes us in robes of righteousness? Would it be ok to chat with Sharon one on one and have her share her experiences? Besides being on a much larger scale, how is this different? I don't know that you can say that Sharon is taking on a leadership role either. 
    -WELS Pastor (since we're keeping the anonymity thing going) [GJ - So brave, defending her anonymously. We know it is A-OK for a WELS lady to teach men about the spirit demons in her life, hovering in her study, telling her that life has no meaning, so live it up now.]
    August 1, 2014 at 9:44 AM
    Blogger Matthias Flach said...
    Sharon Buck will not simply be "sharing life experiences". She will be teaching men about "GODLY leadership". This is a direct violation of the roles of man and woman.
    August 1, 2014 at 9:50 AM
    Blogger Matthias Flach said...
    My apologies for assuming that Sharon Buck isn't a WELS member. It's an easy assumption to make, though, since the conference website tells us that some speakers are WELS and some aren't, but doesn't tell us which ones are and which ones aren't.
    August 1, 2014 at 10:02 AM
    ***

    GJ - Polluted, you missed this -

    Sharon Buck's Mary Kay affiliation associates her with the Mary Kay Cosmetics' devotion to Napoleon Hill's pagan religion.

    One reader informed me that Sharon Buck may be a WELS member. That would make sense, because Mark Jeske is in love with money, realizing he could grow rich on taxpayer money, Thrivent, Antioch, and synod grants.





    Preparing for Roses in the Spring.
    A Guide for Creation Gardeners

    Queen Elizabeth is tall, regal, and perfect for cutting.

    This week two people asked me about getting ready to plant roses in the spring.

    The Fragrant Cloud rose is a hybrid tea with exquisite blooms and perfume.


    Although roses have many sub-categories, the two main ones for planting are the hybrid tea roses and the easy care roses, including the popular Knock-Outs. The hybrid tea roses  are best for long-lasting blooms, long stems, and arrangements.

    Knock-Out shrub roses are magenta, pink, and white.
    They provide an area of constant, vibrant color.


    The best roses for constant, abundant color are the Knock-Outs, a shrub rose. These roses have shorter stems and looser blooms, so they do not display a long time in a vase. Their blooms are rather short-lived in the garden, but they make up for it by constantly providing a riot of color. Although they are called "self-pruning," Knock-Outs are more colorful when the fading blooms are cut off regularly. They come back quickly after pruning.

    A hybrid tea rose will slowly form a bud and very slowly open that bud. Some cut the bud too soon and stop the blooming. Once the five sepals are open, the bud will open completely in a vase.

    Cost
    All good roses cost about $30 each, unless they are on sale at the end of the buying season (late in spring). The remaining roses will sell for $8-10 each. Buying leftover roses is great fun. They introduce the fussy grower to different types they would overlook in the early season buying frenzy.

    Do you want a tree rose or two but blanch at the $50 price? Buy some Jackson and Perkins roses early and they will send messages about leftover tree roses for $10. Wow.

    Peace has been a favorite rose since WWII ended.


    Earlybirds buy their favorite bare root roses from now until late winter. Some favorites like Peace and Double Delight sell out fast, whether bare root  or potted at the local gardening store. Many places are officially out of stock because ordering does not really start for a few months. Ordering during the winter is a good practical idea and a real dream-starter.

    http://www.jacksonandperkins.com/ - A few of the most popular roses can be found here.

    http://www.waysidegardens.com/ - More variety and explanations can be found at Wayside.

    Roses Need Prunes
    John 15:1-10 describes caring for a grapevine, but those principles also apply to the rose. The deadwood must be pruned and thrown away. The spent blooms must be pruned so the branches will grow even more. Newcomers are loathe to prune deadwood. They resist cutting off the blooms that are fading into seed. When the seeds are formed (rosehips), the plant completes its work and begins to slow down.

    Roses Need Water
    I use soaker hoses for roses. They need at least one good soaking per week.

    Gruss an Aachen blooms in partial shade, but it is not a moss.
    Do not plant it in deep shade.


    Roses Need Sun - But Not a Sunburn 
    I like an eastern exposure for roses. They get the morning sun without being roasted by a southern or western exposure. The hottest parts of the yard should be reserved for corn, pumpkins, and tomatoes - not roses.

    Roses can do well in partial shade, if they have enough sun. Gruss an Aachen roses are known for tolerating more shade but blooming gloriously in the sun.

    These little guys will do more for your garden and lawn than all
    the expensive chemicals put together.
    http://unclejimswormfarm.com/


    Roses Need Active, Organic, Wormy Soil
    Now is a good time to start preparing an area for roses. Every poistive action done from now until planting in the spring will benefit the roses.

    Forget osterizing with a rototiller to make the lawn into  a new garden. Newspapers covered by mulch will turn turf into compost, ideal for roses.  Because a high percentage of organic matter will feed the soil creatures that fertilize plants by recycling organic waste. The earthworm is the hardest working soil creature and the best known, but there are many others.

    Forget bags of rose food. Roses like manure rather than those inorganic salts which ultimately harm the soil.

    Roses Need Their Own Area to Grow
    Assuming the future rose garden is currently part of the lawn:
    1. Cover the area with newspapers. Earthworms dig newsprint. The soggy newspapers hold in moisture and block sunlight from the photophobic worms. The cellulose that makes up newsprint is easily digested by earthworms.
    2. Cover the newspapers with wood mulch (Lowe's, Home Depot, Walmart) to keep the newspapers from blowing into the neighbors' yards. Autumn leaves can be used to weigh down newsprint, but something will be needed to keep the leaves in place - such as tree branches.
    3. Grass clippings will keep newspapers down too.
    4. Mushroom compost can also be placed on top of the soil. I did this around the maple tree base, then covered the area with mulch. The next day, birds had pecked into the new area for soil creatures to eat. That is a good sign, when they detect life in the soil.
    5. Thus - soil teeming with soil life, from bacterial to earthworms, will feed the roses. Every pound of organic material added will become a pound of rich soil (earthworm castings) in time. That is why every gardener should put red wiggler earthworms into his gardening areas in the spring.
    Buy them here - http://unclejimswormfarm.com/

    Garlic chives will creep through the rose garden via their roots,
    and pop up, looking like fat grass until they bloom.


    Roses Enjoy Companions - Garlic or Garlic Chives
    Roses belong by themselves, not crowded into another space or stuck along the side of the house. They are roses, not wall flowers. Many gardeners buy their favorites in groups of three or five, for a bigger splash of color, but roses never clash.

    The best companion plants for roses are garlic bulbs and garlic chives (one or t'other, not both). Garlic fumes drive away insects and make the roses stronger and more disease resistant. I prefer garlic chives because they spread through the rose garden and are easily harvested for salad, soup, and cooking.

    Dramatic Conclusion
    Roses are the best possible expenditure in time and money. Our 16 bushes paint the front yard in color and fill the doorway with perfume every morning. Everyone loves getting cut roses, so all my newsprint donors get some hybrid tea roses for collecting newsprint for me. I said to my neighbor, "Here are some of your newspapers back." His wife loves roses. He said, "It is our 53rd wedding anniversary."

    Our helper takes home roses every week, alarmed that I am cutting so many. I explain that cutting makes them bloom even more - as John 15:1-10 shows. After a major pruning, where 100% of the blooms were removed, 60 blooms appeared at once. Our roses are new. They will be stronger and more productive once they are established.

    Additional Creation Gardening links.

    Double Delight - order early for
    a perfumed, bi-color, productive rose.