Joe Krohn - Church and Change Veteran - Justification by Faith Is a Damnable Heresy

Joe Krohn (Jekster) Advanced Member Username: Jekster Post Number: 692 Registered: 4-2011

Posted on Monday, July 15, 2019 - 10:54 pm:       Never mind about 2 Peter 2:1; where the Holy Spirit speaks of a redemption ("bought them" = ransom-AKJV) of even the apostates (unbelievers). "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."

 Rambach, the Halle Pietist, taught 1 Peter 3:16 as the Easter Absolution of the Entire World, as did Pietists Stephan and Walther.

How is Walther different from Rambach in absolving the entire world without faith?

According to LutherQuest (sic), Justification by Faith Is "Akin to Roman Catholic's gratia infusa"

Rev. Kevin D. Vogts (Kevin_vogts) Senior Member Username: Kevin_vogts Post Number: 1790 Registered: 1-2005

Posted on Monday, July 15, 2019 - 8:26 pm:       It pains me that several college and seminary classmates and other friends and acquaintances who are part of ELDONA have adopted this view. I was willing to concede the specific term "Objective Justification" if it was simply a matter of terminology, but they quickly disabused me of that notion. They made it crystal clear that they reject the terminology because they now reject the underlying doctrine. Functionally, it [Justification by Faith] seems to me akin to the Roman Catholic teaching of gratia infusa. By His death on the cross Jesus only established the conditions that make it possible for us to attain our own salvation.

Sail On! Sail On! O Mighty Ship of Fools - Eructations from the LQ Peanut Gallery.SS Schmidt's 666th Post

Steve Schmidt (Sschmidt) Advanced Member Username: Sschmidt Post Number: 666 Registered: 3-2017

Posted on Monday, July 15, 2019 - 1:22 pm:       Jackson's error is supported in his mind by two things: 1. The terms are not used verbatim in scripture. 2. The ELCA and its predecessor bodies had no history of using them. Even Sasse, trained as a church historian and often a weak theologian outside of his field, objected to Missouri's doctrine.

The OJ and SJ terms and concepts are never used at all the in Scriptures, Luther, Melanchthon, Chemnitz, the Book of Concord, Gerhard, or any decent theologian.

I enjoy being lectured by people who cannot get a job in higher education. The less they know, the more they swat - ineffectively - at sound doctrine.

The SS Schmidt is so hilariously wrong that Mrs. Ichabod asked me to answer him a bit. ELCA's components began in Pietism, as WELS and Missouri did. Tis natural for Pietism to degenerate into rationalism, because of its roots in Calvin's creative and erroneous dogmas.

I will step on tender toes again - with glee - to mention the first OJist came from Calvinism and taught at Wittenberg. He did until he began raving like the LQ denizens and found himself defeated in the discussions and tossed out like a broken beer stein. But they say, "According to Walther..."

ELCA has taken the next step beyond Universalism. I doubt whether theology has any meaning for them. They exist to be Left-wing activists, but that is what OJists are too. LQ is just preparing the way. Missouri and WELS will have fewer but better Lutherans, they think.

Reading comprehension is tested many times in school. The Miller Analogies Test is also used. The OJists cannot make a case for their precious dogma because they cannot understand the plain meaning of words and pratfall when they try to be clever, which is funny at first, sad later.

They Are Still Avoiding the Scriptural Passages, Proving My Contention: The Path Is Overgrown from Their Neglect and Choked with Their Weeds

No one has dealt with Abraham in Genesis 15:6 and his dominance in the New Testament, Galatians, and Romans 4.

These guardians of the sainthood of Walther, Pieper, and JP Meyer are frightened of the Word. They cropdust by zigzagging all over their shallow, repetitive, and illogical arguments.

So  let us look at the red cape they are waving - The Smalcald Articles. This is where reading comprehension is handy, even if the Biblical languages have been neglected. Some have had decades to make up the deficit but would rather root for their home teams.

 He has grown in office, the Pope of Plagiarism, the warrior armed with every weapon but the Word of God.

McCain's teachers at his Roman Catholic high school taught him thoroughly; he is easily triggered.

The Smalcald Articles

THE SECOND PART

Treats of the Articles which Refer to the Office and Work of Jesus Christ, or Our Redemption.

Part II, Article I: The first and chief article.

The Formula of Concord, Solid Declaration

III. The Righteousness of Faith

1] The third controversy which has arisen among some theologians of the Augsburg Confession is concerning the righteousness of Christ or of faith, which God imputes by grace, through faith, to poor sinners for righteousness.

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6] This article concerning justification by faith (as the Apology says) is the chief article in the entire Christian doctrine, without which no poor conscience can have any firm consolation, or can truly know the riches of the grace of Christ, as Dr. Luther also has written: If this only article remains pure on the battlefield, the Christian Church also remains pure, and in goodly harmony and without any sects; but if it does not remain pure, it is not possible that any error or fanatical spirit can be resisted. (Tom. 5, Jena, p. 159.) 

67] Concerning what is needful furthermore for the proper explanation of this profound and chief article of justification before God, upon which depends the salvation of our souls, we direct, and for the sake of brevity herewith refer, every one to Dr. Luther's beautiful and glorious exposition of the Epistle of St. Paul to the Galatians.  

This poor Schmidt fellow cannot see that the Smalcald Articles section he misquotes with glee is part of the discussion about Justification by Faith? Luther did a backflip and no one noticed until the precious and charismatic teaching of Stephan and Walther shined upon the Midwest?

And what about Luther's Galatians? I do not think any other book is commended by the Formula of Concord authors for additional study of that topic, the Chief Article, Justification by Faith. Did I miss the reference to the precious and holy works of Walther? Did my eyes miss the footnote?

OJists completely block out Luther so they can preach Walther back into heaven. No one has ascended so high so many times via hot air than CFW Himself. There must be a subscription even more demanding than a Quia for Walther. They have adopted intersectionality from the Left, because they are the Left wing of Midwestern Lutherans, pirates who have stolen the vessel from the greats of the past, from the Bible itself. 

Missouri, WELS, and the ELS began falling apart when they kicked aside Luther in favor of Objective Justification, Calvinism, and Church Growth.

Sasse was not a good theologian because he was critical of OJ? So what does that make Luther? We all saw that for the 500th. The disgust and revulsion felt for the Reformer was palpable, visible in the trinkets sold by CPH, where the great warrior for OJ idiocy is paid a fortune.

Many have seen the Walter Maier family and Pastor Vernon Harley treated as badly. Are the LCMS-WELS-ELS-CLC (sic) sects gaining in any way?

 Here is your new CG-OJ pope!

Alan Lubek - Your Nike Tennis Shoes Have Been Set Aside for You and Team Cascione

 The LutherQueasies have a big order reserved for them.

Alan Lubek, LutherQueasy:
It sounds as though Cascione has come to the same conclusion that Rev. Phil Hale came to in his book on justification: You can't have forgiveness unless it is already there to have. The world is already righteous in Christ...reconciled to God. [GJ - Yes, that is the definition of OJ, which is utterly opposed to the Gospel.]

How anyone could recommend one of G. Jackson's books..especially on the subject of justification is beyond me. I would think "Mark and Avoid" would be the proper response to his persistent promotion of heresies which claim Jesus really didn't finish what He claimed He did when He died for the world and rose again.

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GJ - The saddest aspect of these deluded souls is their complete misunderstanding of doctrinal debate. Their answer is to silence anyone who questions their raging love for Walther.

Their first dodge is overlooking that Holy Mother Missouri and the Wisconsin Sect taught Justification by Faith. I pointed that out - thanks to help from someone - let the reader understand. The Path To Understanding Justification proves that the LCMS and WELS both taught Biblical Justification by Faith and then turned from that to follow Walther's addled disciples.

David Becker admitted that fact, but the snowflakes cannot admit it. Instead, they cropdust with their old "he went to Notre Dame" malarkey. Most of the Concordia Ft. Wayne faculty went to ND, as I pointed out more than once. However, not one of their scholars has written a book against Roman dogma. Moreover, I argued with  the liberals, including faculty, in class. They were not classical Vatican I conservatives, but apostate liberal Zwinglians - just like the OJ Gadarenes on LQ.

For the Edification of LutherQueasies

Please observe my humble blog, with only 7 million views and 17,000 posts. They are not my invented statistics but Google's count. Please argue with them. 

I make a point of quoting both sides of an argument. Notice the Hale book review on quasi-Universalism, not only posted but featured as a sticky post.

I also quote verbatim the LQ fantasies, because who would believe such statements? They make my case for me.

The LQ use of Straw Man fallacies is simply obnoxious and accomplishes nothing. 

 "his persistent promotion of heresies which claim Jesus really didn't finish what He claimed He did when He died for the world and rose again."

That is OJ's ridiculous Straw Man argument against Justification by Faith, not anything I ever said or wrote. The fallacy is apparently universal. Someone I know said something about Justification by Faith and the brain-washed layman said sarcastically, "Oh, you think Jesus did not do enough. You have to do something to make it complete?"

Veneration of Walther
Face it, Walther was a multiple felon who would have been imprisoned in the current J. Epstein scandal. 

Walther and his clergy pals:

1. Knew Stephan was an adulterer who had sex with young female followers, already in Dresden, where he was tried and put under house arrest.
2. Knew Stephan had syphilis and gave it to his wife and children (except the oldest healthy one he brought along).
3. Knew Stephan brought his mistress on his ship and left his dying wife and children at home.
4. Signed the certificate making Stephan bishop-for-life. Walter signed it. Yes, he did.
5. Had no problems with the single girls hanging around
   Stephan until it was time to organize the riot.

Moreover, Walter and his mob:

• Kidnapped his niece and nephew to go to America.
• Organized the riot against his bishop-for-life, leaving the pro-bishop people behind.
• Threatened Stephan's life.
• Stole Stephan's land, gold, books, and possessions.
• Kidnapped Stephan, forcing him to go to Illinois with virtually nothing.
• Endlessly slandered the man after covering for him.
• Learned his convenient Easter absolution from Stephan, a fact he acknowledged. Yes, it was the same dogma as Halle's, where Stephan did some studying.

LutherQueasies Respond with Gratitude to Justification by Faith Exegesis

(1431) Senior Member Username: 1431 Post Number: 1942 Registered: 11-2004

Posted on Monday, July 15, 2019 - 10:53 am:       What is most offensive to me is Jackson's slander of Holy Scripture whose teaching on the subject of justification is clearly reflected by Walther. It sounds as though Cascione has come to the same conclusion that Rev. Phil Hale came to in his book on justification: You can't have forgiveness unless it is already there to have. The world is already righteous in Christ...reconciled to God. How anyone could recommend one of G. Jackson's books..especially on the subject of justification is beyond me. I would think "Mark and Avoid" would be the proper response to his persistent promotion of heresies which claim Jesus really didn't finish what He claimed He did when He died for the world and rose again. I'm very thankful the Wisconsin Synod took this approach with a pastor promoting this same error for the sake of the errorist and those who would fall prey to his false teaching.

Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Advanced Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 645 Registered: 1-2002

Posted on Monday, July 15, 2019 - 10:56 am:       I am thankful that there are more of us out there that are standing up to this serious problem.

Kindle 99 cent version of The Path To Understanding Justification.

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Reader -

Just read your latest post with the quote from Rev. David Bolsclair.  In his passion he seems to have revealed more than he intended, specifically, that his main objection is less the doctrine than your iconoclasm.  For example, he writes:

"...to refute the entire body of doctrine of the LCMS and WELS...", and

"What is most offensive to me is Jackson's slander of C.F.W. Walther. On his website he pictures him with a miter on his head and labels him a pope. How despicable."

As a young teenage actor in a play with L. used to say offstage after an act, "Nailed it!"

You are toppling religious idols.  That is not permitted.

LutherQueasies Already Mad with Rage: "The Demons Believe, But Their Hides Bristle." (James)

 This drives Boisclair mad with rage.

A free copy of The Path To Understanding Justification is linked here.

Rev. David R. Boisclair (Drboisclair) Advanced Member Username: Drboisclair Post Number: 644 Registered: 1-2002

Posted on Monday, July 15, 2019 - 9:52 am:       I was recently disappointed by a review of Gregory Jackson's new book, "The Path to Understanding Justification," written by David Becker. It appeared on page 19 of the July 8th edition of "Christian News." Mr. Becker recommends the book despite its glaring shortcomings. Well, Rev. Jack Cascione has stepped into the breach and provided a BIBLICAL response to a very unbiblical book. I would add to the criticism the observation that Jackson does not offer his readers a positive presentation of the doctrine of Justification, but launches into his polemic against the biblical doctrine of Objective or General Justification. That polemic is as faulty as Rev. Cascione has pointed out and more. Jackson makes the assumption that the concept of Justification cannot be understood in any other way than coupled with faith; hence, he views any articulation of Justification that is not coupled with faith as a rejection of the doctrine of justification by faith. He thinks, then, that all he has to do is to reiterate scriptural and confessional statements on justification by faith to refute the entire body of doctrine of the LCMS and WELS for example. He does not give theologians of the LCMS or WELS the benefit of stating their ENTIRE body of doctrine before passing judgment on them. He considers them apostate Universalists. Even ELDoNA, which embraced the anti-Objective Justification band wagon 6 years ago, does not regard the LCMS or WELS as apostate. As Jackson's theology stands he makes faith the sine qua non of God's forgiveness: no faith, no forgiveness. Rev. Cascione's critique points out that God's forgiveness must come before faith in order for faith to be engendered by the Holy Spirit. Jackson's doctrine is a new form of Fideism. Jackson alleges that since the Saxon Lutherans' fallen leader Martin Stephan attended Halle University in Germany that he was eo ipso a pure Pietist. That is as convincing as to say that since Dr. Gregory Jackson got his PhD from Notre Dame University that he is a pure Romanist. What is most offensive to me is Jackson's slander of C.F.W. Walther. On his website he pictures him with a miter on his head and labels him a pope. How despicable. I encourage everyone to read Rev. Cascione's exposé as it shows the emperor Jackson, who thinks he has new clothes, that he has no clothes at all.

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 Luther a Fideist? no a SolaFideist, you numbskulls.

Kindle 99 cent version of The Path To Understanding Justification.

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Your latest posts remind me of something John Morris wrote about the early days of American Lutheranism. It seems that Cascione and company have fallen back into that track. Here’s what Dr. Morris wrote:

“…Even after the Seminary was established at Gettysburg, systematic and sustained, but covert, attack upon the Symbolical Books was made. The result was that the books were not regarded with favor by many of the ministers and students, and very many did not accept the doctrine of the sacraments as taught in the Lutheran Church.

“This continued to be the state of affairs for many years. There were some that were true Lutherans despite these adverse circumstances. Strange to say, not a few underwent a sort of reacting process, and absolutely were converted to the true church doctrine by the very agency diligently employed to deter them from it. These men did not venture to be demonstrative, but so soon as they became free from the painful shackles by which they were fettered, they professed the true doctrine.

“A large number, however, were Zwinglians (not even Calvinists) on the sacraments. That is, they were not Lutherans, and were satisfied with opposing the doctrines of the Church without bothering themselves about any school of theology.

Read “Justification by Faith” for “Sacraments” in the above, and everything he observed applies today.

From: https://www.lutheranlibrary.org/158lb-morris-old-lutheran-minister/

LutherQuest (sic) Obsessed with Destroying the Chief Article

Many laity and some pastors are awake to the massive error of the ELCA-WELS-LCMS-ELS-CLC (sic). 

The tactic used by false teachers before was to ignore the issue and keep promoting and expanding Objective Justification, their precious and only dogma. The other issues are adiaphora to them, but OJ is their crack pipe. They live for their next session.

Jack Cascione's Hive seems immune to exegesis - or perhaps they actually understood the book. I kept it simple for Jack B. Simple, and the Word worked upon his flinty heart and blinded eyes.

 He questioned OJ! Attack!

The Path To Understanding Justification is exegesis. That is how I named the folder, to remind myself:

• Stick to the Scriptural basis.
• Avoid quoting men in favor of declaring the truths of the Word.

Team Simple - an array of relatives, sects, and wouldbegoods - attacked in battle array. Most of the review was reliant on sarcasm, personal attacks, and record-setting doctrinal stupidity. However, Cascione did reveal his talking points, which are so much like the wisdom of Karl Barth and Charlotte Kirschbaum. Their method was to start with a Biblical concept and turn it upside-down, leaving everyone enchanted by their creativity and avoidance of faith, the Christian Faith, and the clear teaching of the Bible.

But exegesis is not a skill practiced at the Lutheran seminaries today. The Greek word simply means "declaring." Just as Jesus declared the true nature of the Father (John 1:18)

18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

18 θεον ουδεις εωρακεν πωποτε ο μονογενης υιος ο ων εις τον κολπον του πατρος εκεινος εξηγησατο

The underlined word is the verb form of exegesis. My Greek students will notice the emphatic -      εκεινος        - That One - has declared Him.

Concordia, Ft. Wayne has existed to ordain men who were not fully prepared for pastoral work, lacking years of training in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and German. Walther only had Latin, typical for his era, and very little in Biblical languages. He was a Biblical dunce, as most people realize, and tried to make his followers follow in his errors, the blind leading the blind.

To make up for this lack of exegetical training, Ft. Wayne graduates stand out as illiterate bullies - Cascione, Kincaid Smith, Jay Webber, Paul McCain, Jim Heiser and most of his ELDONA sycophants. Notice the DNA?

Webber and Smith helped Heiser and DeJaynes (Lutheran Confessional Synod) get into fellowship - solemnly announced - with WELS/ELS. They even prayed together. But Heiser never heard of OJ, he declared on video, even though he learned it at Ft. Wayne, took on fellowship with OJ sects WELS/ELS, and fellowshipped away with the Rolf Preus Sect.

So these people are enraged by Biblical exegesis, which they cannot practice. They could, in English, with some extra help from commentaries. But the real work comes from studying the actual text, having a reading knowledge, and sticking to that.

The Bible is inerrant? They ignore that for a clown named Walther. Their favorite translations are Calvinist - NIV and ESV.

A quia subscription to the Book of Concord? I will give them three seconds to find the Chief Article named. Honk. They lose.

Luther - ans? They despise Luther, hate his Biblical doctrine, and know almost nothing about his works.

Not apt to teach. Not apt to teach. Not apt to teach.