Bailing Water Comment:
Anonymous said...
Good Lord! Is there information in the Warren Report about Church and change too? So why can't it just be that C&C has not announced their conference agenda. Some pastors went to a conference. BPS added a consultant.
I am wondering why any organization has to say anything about its conference a year in advance. Have you ever put on a conference? Do you know how foolish that is? Spring would be a great time to start promoting their conference and all speakers should be lined up and ready to go. Just because you want them to acknowledge it now or have notions of conspiracy theories should not compel them to jump the gun.
A covert group of pastors? How do you know they were covert? I know two of those pastors and they are not covert. They'll tell you all about it. Its not very stealthy for a pastor to announce to his congregation that he'll be gone this week because he's going to this conference. Is there some sort of place where pastors are supposed to declare their intentions for conferences for synod approval and these pastors forgot to post their itineraries?
Your statement implies that Kelm's call is responsible for a large budget deficit. We know that Kelm is not responsible for a budget deficit. Its the pathetic offerings of the WELS masses that are responsible ultimately. Perhaps Kelm is single handedly responsible for the collapse in the financial markets that are preventing large donations to the synod. Kelm's fees will pay for himself if not more, unlike all the other WELS synod office free loaders who simply have to rely on the sub standard offerings of your local church.
Stop inventing conspiracies and stealth when in reality most are just going about their daily lives doing what they do and they take little notice of what goes on here. You can't actually do work in the kingdom if you sit around here worrying about what BW thinks. I would be very disappointed if any of them gave this forum the time of day. After writing that, I actually feel guilty now for giving it the time of day.
December 4, 2008 8:59 AM
Anonymous said...
One of the problems here is that all "outside WELS fellowship" speakers need to be approved by the District President and this was not done prior to booking Ed Stetzer. This is not speculation. This is fact.
December 4, 2008 1:25 PM
Anonymous said...
which District President is in charge of C&C. When did para-church organizations bring themselves under the authority of WELS DP's?
Anonymous said...
Any outside speakers need to be approved by the District President of whichever district the event will take place. If it is in Milwaukee then it is the Southeastern Wisconsin District. I don't know the name of that District President. You may wish to run the question through him...but he would be the one that would need to approve the speaker.
December 4, 2008 5:09 PM
John said...
8:59 am Anonymous..
1)"So why can't it just be that C&C has not announced their conference agenda." Ok I will give the Church and Change time to put out their agenda. It is just odd that a public question was directly asked of the organizer of this event and no answer has been given.
2)I know two of those pastors and they are not covert. They'll tell you all about it. Ok I will post their review. I wonder why they haven't published an article about this excursion in FIC.? I wonder if these congregations were excited to have their pastors march off to a Reformed conference?
3)We know that Kelm is not responsible for a budget deficit.
Yet did this call have full synodical support?
December 4, 2008 7:07 PM
***
GJ - I am sure Church and Chicanery paid a fee to Stetzer in order to book him. Stetzer only talks and publishes. He is not a pastor. He has no call. He has learned that he can make more money yakking than by doing the hard work of a parish pastor. Therefore, as a traveling consultant, he deserves big fees.
When someone spends so much time and money on a national conference, the dates and plans are announced in advance. They would definitely want to announce the speaker in advance, since the speaker is the drawing point.
Foolishly, Church and Chicanery tried to throw people back by saying, "How do you know we haven't canceled him?" Exactly. How would anyone know? The only trustworthy source about this was Stetzer himself, who:
- Twittered his booking with WELS in August;
- Blogged about speaking for Missouri and WELS;
- Named WELS Church and Chicanery on his speaking list for 2009.
Oh, I am a genius? No, I just Googled "Stetzer WELS." And I found those items. I also knew that the Stetzer invitation was discussed by the COP, who did nothing, as usual. The Rock and Roll member Joe Krohn asked about the Stetzer invitation on the Church and Chicanery list (which someone copied me). Instead of answering, C and C attacked me. Their cowardice in avoiding the question made me laugh harder than usual.
It's a good thing WELS broke with Missouri over fellowship principles. Missouri was so lax. "No doctrinal discipline. Thank God we are so strict."
