Anonymous said...
Found at twitter.com/kstrandlund:
@andrew_statezny that's awesome! love your stuff. thanks for the generosity. #free4church
Andrew's original tweet:
LifeChurch.tv is making their free resources in more video formats #free4church http://twurl.nl/o5biqp
Unbelievable. Openly admitting to using resources that have no business in a Lutheran church.
+Martinus
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Ad Fontes: Craig Groeschel Piped Into WELS Mission...":
i am a product of the wels schools from k-12. i can tell you for sure the problem is with ski.
***
GJ - WELS banned the shift key as an adiaphoron.
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Ad Fontes: Craig Groeschel Piped Into WELS Mission...":
Martinus,
Yes, they are openly admitting it. That is progress. 15 years ago, they denied Chruch Growth strategy in WELS. They renamed it and made it look like the Lutheran Church has been CG all the time.
I personally didn't know what to make of it years ago and just took a wait and see attitude even participating in what was not clearly, to me, a volatile thing. Now it is very out in the open and endorsed and like you see here, heterodox sources listed.
I heard a woman presenter at a woman's retreat give a textbook example and rally for introducing C&C, CGM into your church. Fuller Seinary/ Willow Creek all the way. It was disturbing to say the least. She listed all sorts of sources for video clips (even showed some, they were law oriented), that were from Willow Creek, and a few other online sources that were all from the new paradigm model now being heaped upon us in the name of evangelism.
The example above was the defining moment for me and the impetus for me to stop associating, assisting and unknowingly being party to the movement with my then wait and see attitude. It's here and probably to stay.
My theory is that the WELS C&C enthusiasts have enough momentum within these churches that there will be no chance for any break in fellowship or split. Because those who are very outspoken are so few in number. Laiety and leadership will not see the need to split, because CGM is a rather amorphous thing, it is getting harder to pin down and confusing for even the well read.
To me it's rather ironic that just a few years ago, we used to gufaw at the "Liberals" in ELCA with it's apostasy and denial of God's Word in so many ways. The ELCA crowd must just be howling with laughter saying, "glad you guys got on board finally. It's not so bad now is it?"
To me it's a sad commentary, but not all that unbelievable.
For those who are still undecided, when you see the light, just remember to "duck and cover."
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Ad Fontes: Craig Groeschel Piped Into WELS Mission...":
If Ski can complete brainwashing in one day, anyone can.
12 comments:
Unbelievable? NO. It is in keeping with lazy, irresponsible pastors strutting their stuff.
The time has come and almost passed to excommunicate the heretical leaders hurting WELS.
it seems like nobody cares since nobody is putting a stop to it. it's a disgrace. i'm am embarrassed for ski that after all the schooling he's had, he can't put two thoughts together that are his own.
Martinus,
Yes, they are openly admitting it. That is progress. 15 years ago, they denied Chruch Growth strategy in WELS. They renamed it and made it look like the Lutheran Church has been CG all the time.
I personally didn't know what to make of it years ago and just took a wait and see attitude even participating in what was not clearly, to me, a volatile thing. Now it is very out in the open and endorsed and like you see here, heterodox sources listed.
I heard a woman presenter at a woman's retreat give a textbook example and rally for introducing C&C, CGM into your church. Fuller Seinary/ Willow Creek all the way. It was disturbing to say the least. She listed all sorts of sources for video clips (even showed some, they were law oriented), that were from Willow Creek, and a few other online sources that were all from the new paradigm model now being heaped upon us in the name of evangelism.
The example above was the defining moment for me and the impetus for me to stop associating, assisting and unknowingly being party to the movement with my then wait and see attitude. It's here and probably to stay.
My theory is that the WELS C&C enthusiasts have enough momentum within these churches that there will be no chance for any break in fellowship or split. Because those who are very outspoken are so few in number. Laiety and leadership will not see the need to split, because CGM is a rather amorphous thing, it is getting harder to pin down and confusing for even the well read.
To me it's rather ironic that just a few years ago, we used to gufaw at the "Liberals" in ELCA with it's apostasy and denial of God's Word in so many ways. The ELCA crowd must just be howling with laughter saying, "glad you guys got on board finally. It's not so bad now is it?"
To me it's a sad commentary, but not all that unbelievable.
For those who are still undecided, when you see the light, just remember to "duck and cover."
WELS Commissions on Youth Discipleship and Parish Schools are now training the young to love "Woopie Worship." In the Winter 2009 issue of "Sowers & Seeds" Holy Word in Austin, TX is highlighted on how it has established "Kids InC" to get the 3-7 year-olds out of the divine service so they can watch videos and have "popcorn prayers." Note in the article how the kids wanted what they used to have in the regular service (i.e. Lord's Prayer, offering, blessing). By the time "Kids InC" had been tweeked to be what the children asked for, it ended being much like what they had been pulled out of. The church had trouble finding volunteers to sit with the kids during "Kids InC." How about having the parents do it in the regular divine service? And then the kicker regarding "Group" resources: "This is not a WELS or NPH product, so be discerning."
Find the article here: http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?2601&collectionID=710
Be more concerned with the "parent" congregation that won't disclipline their "daughter" congregation.
Not to mention the elders and stewards of that congregation who turn a blind eye.
Oh, let's not forget the synod district leadership who permit this open apostasy.
While we climb the ladder, let's peek behind the curtain at the conference of presidents that can't seem to muster the courage to discipline. (For fear of what?!?! Falling revenues? Check. Declining membership. Check. So what are they waiting for?)
+Diet O. Worms
Good point - where was Ski schooled at?
-Michigan Lutheran Seminary
-Northwestern College
-Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary
-Life Lutheran Church - Miami
-St. Marcus Lutheran Church - Milwaukee
He's doing exactly what they trained him to do.
is the problem with ski or the educational system?
The only way I can see to send a message that the synod understands is to insist that none of my contributions go to synod -- or cutting back on my support.
i am a product of the wels schools from k-12. i can tell you for sure the problem is with ski.
I know for sure that the problem lies with Ski. I never was a member of St. Marcus, but I've been there several times. I know for a fact that several people who were/are members of St. Marcus were surprised that Ski took the call to the CORE. These folks didn't think Ski had the initiative and motiviation to actually work in a mission setting.
Now I see how right they are. Need sermons? Copy and paste from Lifechurch. Need members? Take them from other local WELS congregations. Need anything else? That's what the "assistant" is for.
Unbelievable. How can this be tolerated by the synod? Has there ever been such a blatant case of violating the rules of fellowship (not to mention ethics) as taking sermons from someone who would be a welcome addition to any ELCA congregation?
I thought our synod took a strong (albeit a tad late) stand when breaking fellowship with LCMS. Where is that integrity today? Can someone explain how this case is any different? Do we stand as a strongly Confessional synod or do we not?
If Ski can complete brainwashing in one day, anyone can.
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