Luther to George Major:
"It is by your silence and cloaking that you cast suspicion upon yourself. If you believe as you declare in my presence, then speak so also in the church, in public lectures, in sermons, and in private conversations, and strengthen your brethren, and lead the erring back to the right path, and contradict the contumacious spirits; otherwise your confession is sham pure and simple, and worth nothing. Whoever really regards his doctrine, faith, and confession as true, right, and certain cannot remain in the same stall with such as teach, or adhere to, false doctrine; nor can he keep on giving friendly words to Satan and his minions. A teacher who remains silent when errors are taught, and nevertheless pretends to be a true teacher, is worse than an open fanatic and by his hypocrisy does greater damage than a heretic. Nor can he be trusted. He is a wolf and a fox, a hireling and a servant of his belly, and ready to despise and to sacrifice doctrine, Word, faith, Sacrament, churches, and schools. He is either a secret bedfellow of the enemies, or a skeptic and a weathervane, waiting to see whether Christ or the devil will prove victorious; or he has no convictions of his own whatever, and is not worthy to be called a pupil, let alone a teacher; nor does he want to offend anybody, or say a word in favor of Christ, or hurt the devil and the world.”
F. Bente, Concordia Triglotta, Historical Introductions to the Symbolical Books of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921, p. 94.
Fox Mulder has left a new comment on your post ""Party in the MLC" Mourned by Fans and MLC Student...":
Brett,
This was not a WELS endorsed video. It was made by students at a college and not meant for public view. Now, I'm not saying that it was right or wrong, just that it has died and so to must any comments. Again, we are called to imitate God who forgave all sins and removed them from his mind. "I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more."
How can we continue bringing this up and think that we are showing love?
Fox Mulder has left a new comment on your post "New Pastor Left St. Peter Freedom Because of Churc...":
I feel as if Christ would weep would he read anything on this BLOG. Regardless of doctrine, regardless of teaching, regardless of any comments, he wants people in heaven. He loves people and as we are to imitate him we must also show love. This BLOG doesn't.
Brett Meyer wrote,
"I would argue that this blog mocks false doctrine, false practice and unrepentant false teachers. To go easy on any of the above is to reject the supremacy of God's Word, pure doctrine, true practice and faithful teachers."
Yes, it mocks. Whatever you think going easy rejects, you reject love. We must strive to show love in all circumstances. You would rather beat dead horses and men who want to preach the Gospel.
---
This video is worse than the other one and still showing. One excuse is, "The students have graduated already," as if the WELS KGB could not have them withdraw it and apologize.
This abomination starts with the Luther statue flinging the Bible away to chase the other statue. Toward the end, one of the statues uses God's name in vain, but hey, all in good fun.
The MLC student posts about this video are adoring. "LOL GO MARTIN LUTHER COLLEGE!
(My mom works there!) ^.^"
The first stage of Pietism is full of rules and methods about inculcating outward signs of the faith, but deliberately unconcerned about doctrine. They imagine that love converts, not the Word. Legalism reigns - hence Sabbath laws and dry counties.
Later, Pietists become Antinominian universalists. Note well that Knapp offered double-justification, while Tholuck and Schleiermacher both dropped the second justification to become universalists.
10 comments:
"Therefore nothing but a satanic, seductive, and sinister strategy is involved when we are called upon to yield a bit and to connive at an error for the sake of unity. In this way the devil is trying cunningly to lead us away from the Word. For if we adopt this course and get together in this matter, he has already gained ground; and if we were to yield him a fingerbreadth, he would soon have an ell."
What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., ed., Ewald Plass, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959, III, p. 1411f. Ephesians 6:10-17.
" Therefore, do not speak to me of love or friendship when anything is to be detracted from the Word or the faith; for we are told that not love but the Word brings eternal life, God's grace, and all heavenly treasures." 19 " In matters concerning faith we must be invincible, unbending, and very stubborn; indeed, if possible, harder than adamant. But in matters concerning love we should be softer and more pliant than any reed and leaf and should gladly accommodate ourselves to everything." 20 "Doctrine is our only light. It alone enlightens and directs us and shows us the way to heaven. If it is shaken in one quarter (in una parte), it will necessarily be shaken in its entirety (in totum). Where that happens, love cannot help us at all." 21 " But this tender mercy is to be exercised only toward Christians and among Christians, for toward those who reject and persecute the Gospel we must act differently; here I am not permitted to let my love be merciful so as to tolerate and endure false doctrine. When faith and doctrine are concerned and endangered, neither love nor patience are in order. Then it is my duty to contend in earnest and not to yield a hairbreadth." What Luther Says, II, 637f.
"However, if anything is undertaken against the Word, faith, and the honor of God, we are in no wise to preserve silence, are to bear it far less patiently. Then we should offer stubborn resistance."
What Luther Says, An Anthology, 3 vols., ed., Ewald Plass, St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1959, III, p. 1308. Sermon, 1523.
I disagree. Luther is not infallible. So, I say that love is still far more important than doctrine. In fact, if there was not love there would be no doctrine in the first place. I don't think he's wrong but in this instance I think your quoting of him is.
"If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love."
"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you."
"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
"Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves."
"Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law."
"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing."
"Do everything in love."
"For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died."
"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love."
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."
"And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity."
"This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another."
"Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent."
Fox Mulder you state, "So, I say that love is still far more important than doctrine."
Exactly which verses that you quote above support this? I contend that what you promote is false and unChristian. Christ tells us what love is in 1 John 14:15, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." And, John 15:10, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love."
Here are a few of Christ's commands:
2 Timothy 4:2, "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine."
Titus 2:15, "These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."
Titus 1:13, "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;"
Matt 10:32-40, "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me."
1 Timothy 5:20, "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear."
You quoted this verse but fail to see that to rebuke and chasten is love and not at the expense of Christ's doctrine.
Revelation 3:19, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."
If we didn't love these people who are teaching falsely we wouldn't take the time to point out their public error. Neither would we be showing love to those they are leading away from Christ. Which is to my point about MLC failing to publicly correct their confession (a public correction for the benefit of clarifying and pronouncing God's Word on the subject of homosexuality as a follow up to their worldwide video in support of the sin) it protects them from disapproval while thousands were, and continue to be, led astray by thier actions. Is that love?
"It was made by students at a college and not meant for public view."
What idiots placed it on YouTube thinking that it would not be available to the public?
Why must this be continually brought out here? If we are to keep Christ's commands then we must also remember that he has commanded us to love everyone. How can we reject the kindness that comes with love. Here is another command: "Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity." Now, I don't condone false doctrine, just your means of going about disputing it. Let this horse die and fight a battle that matters. This BLOG has gotten away from proving that anything is false and now settles for just mocking those who believe differently than your little clique.
To the last Anonymous comment,
I was simply stating that the video was made in a nature that was explicitly for MLC. It was understood and received within the strange little subculture that resides there. It was made public when it was put on Youtube but I was talking about that. These students did not intend to lead people away from God or to lend a false impression about the WELS' stance on homosexuality. This needs to be understood. Now you may argue that this happened anyway, to which I respond that the video was removed, and no one else will see it. As far as an apology goes, how will that apology reach those 86,000 people? It is better to let this die and forgive those who sinned.
I don't think that there is any love for the WELS here. Instead you have this crusading mentality that is preventing you from seeing correct logic and skewing your perception of scripture which is more important. False doctrine should always be pointed out when it is present, but it should be done with gentleness and respect.
Fox,
You note "Luther is not infallible". No one says he is. But can you cite an example of his infallibility?
Hound
Fox Mulder, you state, "It was understood and received within the strange little subculture that resides there."
I would think that the WELS Churches and congregation members who send money to MLC would want to know what sort of "strange little subculture", that is allowed to produce a homosexual video, resides at the WELS school for future teachers and pastors.
Also, the best way to reconcile the offense of that video is to produce another that is a clear and concise confession of the WELS and MLC's view of homosexuality based on God's Word. A verbal retraction and apology on the video would be a bonus. This video should be submitted to YouTube - there's at least seven students who know how to do this.
That would be a good start to show that they truly love their neighbor. The same love that you've been talking about but refusing to promote when the rubber hits the road.
Your argument is that a video posted on Youtube is going to hit all 86000 people that originally watched the first on. We both know that this isn't possible so it seems to me that the motive behind it must be what you think is the reason. If this is the case then your arguments fall apart completely. Not just here but on every post I've read by you. You normally disregard motive in exchange for saying that they're wrong no matter what, even if they're sincere, even if they love Christ, even if they are trying to spread the Gospel. If it is motive that matters than we must consider what implications that this has for those who you say preach false doctrine. They are men who still love God and are trying to bring the Gospel to the lost. They have good motives. If they have good motives than they are not enemies at all, but simply missled men who need to be shown that they are wrong by the Gospel, with gentleness and respect, face to face. None of which is being done here. Where are your motives Mr. Brett Meyer?
My contention is that if YouTube is where 86,000+ people from around the world got an eyefull of what WELS and MLC's confession is concerning the sin of homosexuality then that's the place to post a retraction and clarifying statement. That is, if they truly intend to right the wrong and sincerely love their neighbor. That's my complete motive.
You continue to milk the emotional appeal, "love over doctrine". If I've addressed false doctrine and have shown where it violates Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions then what does it matter how sincere they are? Is their false doctrine, which violates Scripture, become pure just because they are sincere, just because they say they love Christ? Does a very sincere false teacher still love God? 1 Corinthians 10:21, "Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils." I appreciate how well you articulate your thoughts and feelings. Your desire for Love at the expense of Doctrine shows through in everything you say.
You state, "They are men who still love God and are trying to bring the Gospel to the lost. They have good motives. If they have good motives than they are not enemies at all, but simply missled men who need to be shown that they are wrong by the Gospel, with gentleness and respect, face to face." Exactly what was the good motive of the MLC Seven that caused them create a homosexual romp video? Exactly what is the good motive that causes WELS pastors to attend and worship at Baptist training seminars? What's the good motive behind WELS invitation to New Age Leonard Sweet who worships Satan as God and Christ as Satan's desciple? What's the good motive of WELS school who invites an openly homosexual and pedophilia promoting Roman Catholic Priest to speak? What is the good motive of WELS theologians who blatantly lie and pervert Scripture and the Lutheran Confessions in an attempt to promote and defend a new rational man-made doctrine?
"Unionism is characterized by these marks: It fails to confess the whole truth of the divine Word; it fails to reject and denounce every opposing error; it assigns error equal right with truth and creates the impression of church fellowship and of unity of faith where they do not exist." (Wisconsin Synod, Prayer Fellowship, Tract No. 10, 1954)
Francis Pieper, The Difference Between Orthodox And Heterodox Churches, and Supplement, Coos Bay, Oregon: St. Paul's Lutheran Church, 1981, p. 64.
I stand by these faithful words of Martin Luther. Fox Mulder, you would do well to take these words to heart. " Therefore, do not speak to me of love or friendship when anything is to be detracted from the Word or the faith; for we are told that not love but the Word brings eternal life, God's grace, and all heavenly treasures." 19 " In matters concerning faith we must be invincible, unbending, and very stubborn; indeed, if possible, harder than adamant. But in matters concerning love we should be softer and more pliant than any reed and leaf and should gladly accommodate ourselves to everything." 20 "Doctrine is our only light. It alone enlightens and directs us and shows us the way to heaven. If it is shaken in one quarter (in una parte), it will necessarily be shaken in its entirety (in totum). Where that happens, love cannot help us at all." 21 " But this tender mercy is to be exercised only toward Christians and among Christians, for toward those who reject and persecute the Gospel we must act differently; here I am not permitted to let my love be merciful so as to tolerate and endure false doctrine. When faith and doctrine are concerned and endangered, neither love nor patience are in order. Then it is my duty to contend in earnest and not to yield a hairbreadth." What Luther Says, II, 637f.
Yo Fox,
Have you heard the phrase, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"?
Do you doubt that the Pope has good motives? Don't you think that he wants everyone to be right with God? Of course he does--but he's wrong. Timothy Leery was motivated to bring enlightenment to his sphere of influence too.
What good has 'works righteousness' or Lysergic acid accomplished?
A man isn't justified by his love of Christ or his good intentions. A man isn't justified by the sincerity of his feeeelings. And thank goodness for that!
If Justification depended upon those things we'd all be screwed. I, for one, know that my intentions, emotional state, or love for Christ and his commands fluctuates minute by minute. But I also know that my justification comes through the faith created in me by the Holy Spirit--faith in the Atonement achieved by Christ--and so all that weak human fluctuation matters not a whit.
From your comment I can tell you are the sort of person who wants to give both winners and losers trophies in Little League. I can tell that "trying" is more valuable to you than "accomplishing". Heck, you're probably the kind of sap that thinks Obama deserved the Nobel Peace Prize for all his 'great' dreams...(you should hear my ideas!)
St Peter, in your world, questions every person at Heaven's Gate.
"Hey there buddy...
did ya give 'er the ol' college try?"
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