Tuesday, December 1, 2009

Grace and the Enthusiasts



Absolved without the Means,
Absolved without the Means,
What a glorious feeling,
Enthusiastic genes!

DK has left a new comment on your post "Garland of Roses - From WELS CG Supporter":

Hi Professor!
Maybe this is the wrong place to ask this but... I was reading the Art. IV in 'Apology' this afternoon and was struck how 'initial grace' sounds so much like what UOJers claim.

"In order not to by-pass Christ altogether, our opponents require a knowledge of the history about Christ and claim that he merited for us a certain disposition or, as they call it, "initial grace", which they understand as a disposition inclining us to love God more easily. It is clear, however, what they ascribe to this disposition, for they imagine that the acts of the will before the disposition and those after it are of the same type. They imagine that the will can love God, but that this disposition stimulates it to do so more freely."
Apology of the Augsburg Confession, Tappert p 109, paragraph 17, Augsburg Press.

I know it's not a direct parallel to UOJ but I would be curious to know what you think of this--and if you can shed any light on the history behind this comment. It seems applicable to the UOJ discussion in some way.

***

GJ - Reading the Apology now? That is a good sign. I would love to see the UOJ Stormtroopers explain their pet theory from the Apology.

All Enthusiasts have this in common - they draw their insights apart from the Word of God. They depend on human wisdom, human tradition, dreams and visions. The doctrine of Purgatory is drawn from Plato, the Apocrypha (which does not support it anyway), and various dreams people had.

The Apology was written to defend the Diet of Augsburg's Confession, 1530, so it was directed at Roman Catholics. Luther's Galatians Commentary is very good in dealing with all the Roman Catholic arguments about grace.

Rome taught then and still teaches that God gives people grace to accept grace. This merited disposition is very complicated to unravel and explain. In short, it is grace before the Means of Grace.

You have hit upon an important similarity with Universal Objective Justification. The Pietist Knapp and his followers (Walther, Pieper, J. P. Meyer, Papenfuss) agree that the entire world has received grace before and apart from the Means of Grace. Everyone is absolved. Everyone in Hell is a guilt-free saint.

UOJ Stormtroopers cannot make sense of their theory, because they still use the old Lutheran categories after emptying them of any meaning. Everyone is absolved, but everyone is a sinner. All people in the world are "justified," but they need to believe they are already justified. Confession means learning they were already forgiven, before they confessed their sin. UOJ reminds me of the hash the junior high cafeteria used to serve us. No one knew what was in the hash, and no one could tell. We all agreed it was unpalatable, as UOJ is.

5 comments:

dk said...

Thank you Professor!

So Rome teaches "Grace given to accept grace"?

(Hey honey, we've been preapproved for a house loan!! Now all we have to do is get approved and then prequalified and then qualified!)

Gee, maybe we should convince the UOJers to head for Rome.

How do you think this similarity can best be used? It seems like it should be brought up to those Confessional clergy who only nominally believe UOJ.

Don't UOJers say that "faith doesn't justify, but the universal justification creates the ability (or potential) to have faith? That's almost verbatim what Rome is saying with "Grace to accept grace.

thanks

L P said...

DK,

Gee, maybe we should convince the UOJers to head for Rome.


That is what they do, you see Rome per post Vatican II, is cool with universalism. So if you are a UOJer and long for smells and bells, you will be cool with Rome.

Just don't buck the Pope, you can be what you want to be in Mother Church.

LPC
ex-RC

dk said...

hmmm...

yes. A "flavor for everyone" is really what these jokers are attempting.

I see a photoshop opportunity:

"Baskin Robins 31 Flavors: If you want some religion, we have a doctrine for you!"

Anonymous said...

"GJ - Reading the Apology now? That is a good sign. I would love to see the UOJ Stormtroopers explain their pet theory from the Apology."

Ah! Why use the Apology to explain what they already explain from Scripture?

Brett Meyer said...

UOJ isn't found in the Holy Scriptures. And as expected it isn't found in the Lutheran Confessions. It is a man made doctrine from human reason with help from Satan. WELS explains it as a thought or concept of Scripture. They've rejected the Holy Spirit's faith so they manipulated their forgiveness of sins and righteousness outside of faith, who's damnation is just.