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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastor Jeske on LCMS Home Page":
As a WELS pastor, it's nonsense like this that has me seriously considering leaving the synod. They keep telling me that issues like this are being addressed, but I see no evidence that anything is actually being done.
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GJ - I am told his DP is standing in the way of any action. One must also consider the vast number of pastors and teachers trained in Church Shrinkage, all paid for through the mission offerings.
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS Pastor Jeske on LCMS Home Page":
Pastor Jackson wrote: "all paid for through the mission offerings". Is that an assumption? My gut feeling is that some of the money for C&C and Fuller educations came out of the general operating fund and gifts that could have went towards the ministerial school system and tuition there.
Also, I bet the pastors who went to Fuller and similar seminaries would never actually think of rolling up their sleeves and going to a mission in a third world country, so why should they dip into the missions till?
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GJ - I meant "missions" in the generic sense, anything given to the synod, not to mention Thrivent and Schwan money.
I know mission pastors were given free rides to "study" at Willow Creek, back in the 1980s. I doubt whether that money came from the officials' own pockets. Funny, I was never offered a Willow Creek scholarship.
Did Larry Oh, Fuller Bivens, David Valleskey, et al. pay the whole cost for their Fuller/Willow Creek/Trinity Deerfield educations? I doubt it.
10 comments:
As a WELS pastor, it's nonsense like this that has me seriously considering leaving the synod. They keep telling me that issues like this are being addressed, but I see no evidence that anything is actually being done.
WELS pastor, I am curious as to which synod you would go to, or would you just become an independent?
Pastor Jackson wrote: "all paid for through the mission offerings". Is that an assumption? My gut feeling is that some of the money for C&C and Fuller educations came out of the general operating fund and gifts that could have went towards the ministerial school system and tuition there.
Also, I bet the pastors who went to Fuller and similar seminaries would never actually think of rolling up their sleeves and going to a mission in a third world country, so why should they dip into the missions till?
Prez Kieschnicks' new book, "Waking the Sleeping Giant" show that the roots of the LCMS's headlong dive into church growth are found in the dream of no less than Billy Graham! Graham said that the LCMS was a "sleeping giant," and Kieschnick is trying to awaken it. (BTW, notice how beholden the LCMS prez is to Evangelicals leaders so that a few off-the-cuff remarks by Graham are considered golden.)
Ironically, if the height of the giant is tabulated by pew occupancy, then Kieschnick has only shrunk the giant!
So Kieschnick is borrowing Evangelical methods of church growth to do what Graham would have done with the LCMS if he were only Lutheran.
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A Guessing Game – Which Church is President Kieschnick Referring to in His Soon to be Published Book? by Pr. Rossow, 5 Dec 2009
http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=8442
excerpt: Waking the Sleeping Giant: The Birth, Growth, Decline, and Rebirth of an American Church.
The DPs apply Alinsky's Delphi Technique of control. More control. That is what is needed.
"Did Larry Oh, Fuller Bivens, David Valleskey, et al. pay the whole cost for their Fuller/Willow Creek/Trinity Deerfield educations? I doubt it."
The august group above must repent and change their ways before the time of grace runs out.
Jeske acts like his time of grace goes on forever. He's in for a big surprise.
Another stink'n DP!
One thing that seems to be forgotten here is St. Marcus Lutheran Church, to which Jeske received, accepted and is serving a Divine Call.
This begs the question: Is Rev. Jeske serving the congregation to which he was called to the fullest?
Would St. Marcus need an associate pastor if Rev. Jeske was devoting his full energy to his call to that congregation?
Doesn't St. Marcus become an even bigger concern when one considers that its pastor is headlining the website of a synod with which it is not in fellowship?
Isn't St. Marcus a victim in this farce that is Time of Grace?
If Jeske wants to devote his time and energy to Time of Grace - fine. But then he should give St. Marcus the honor and respect due her and resign his call there and then properly devote all of his time and energy to Time of Grace.
Folks can speak all they want about congregations not taking the initiative and making their pastors accountable. We must, however remember that it is the pastor who is the learned one. It is he who must teach the congregation in the way that it must go. It is the pastor who fails his flock when he does not do so. It is HIS responsibility, completely.
You are not wrong John.
May you be not only heard, but also heeded, for it is certainly true that pastors shall be held accountable for the state of their ir flocks before Christ; He is the one true Judge of both pastors and their flocks.
Both pastors and/or sheep may be individually found by our LORD to be true sheep/or goats, as whatever the true case may be.
You're bleating like a true sheep to me.
Every blessing in Christ
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