Ski Kelms* Craig Groeschel

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Did The CORE Model Itself after This Babtist Churc...":

The CORE must have been reading your blog because there are now listings on their events page and their calendar. The calendar shows the sermon series for the next several weeks. Compare the topics to those listed here:

http://open.lifechurch.tv/series/83

Urban Legends
View this series. Series ID: 83
4 week series

Do you know someone who's seen Bigfoot's tracks? What about Nessie in Loch Ness? Of course, almost every kid has learned that there really are alligators in the sewer. You know how it goes: someone sees something and tells someone who then tells someone else. On and on and on it goes until its hard to separate fact from fiction. This doesn't just happen with alligators and Bigfoot... it happens with spiritual truths as well. Join us as we separate fact from fiction and debunk spiritual myths.
Click below to explore this series.

At The CORE - A sermon series called Urban Legends.

http://open.lifechurch.tv/Series/66

The Sickness Within
View this series. Series ID: 66
5 week series

Is it really what's inside that counts? If so, what's going on inside you? Worry? Doubt? Loneliness? Lust? Sometimes the internal struggles that no one else sees are the ones that blind us the most. We'll get the inside story on how God offers hope and strength for overcoming these battles in this series, The Sickness Within.
Click below to explore this series.

At The CORE - a sermon series called The Sickness Within.

Must be a coincidence.

+Martinus

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From the Orace of Twitter, back in action:

RT @llcooljames: If people say evil things about you and it's true, correct yourself. If it's a lie laugh at it. Thnks LL gr8 2 remember.
about 7 hours ago from TweetDeck

***

GJ - So why is he still preaching Groeschel's sermons?

*To kelm or to parlow: copying another parson's sermons and taking credit for them. In the Patterson Circuit, a copied sermon is called a doebler. Kelming and parlowing are often followed by large but undeserved grants. A doebler is always backed by rock music and disappointing grant allotments.

Ski attended a one-day conference led by Craig Groeschel and Andy Stanley, yet another coincidence. Ski, Parlow, and Buske worshiped at the Andy Stanley Babtist conference at Northpoint Community Church in Atlanta. Ski also attended a conference at Granger Community Church.Ski's Drive 08 Journal

The final Main Session with Andy Stanley was just phenomenal. We began with awesome worship. Today though, they began with a Christian rapper, Toby Mac. Our school kids would have loved it. I’m not sure that they would have believed that it was church though.

When Andy began his session. He started by saying that he was not going to follow his notes in the Drive ’08 Journal Book. Instead he was going to do something that he called, “Recent Random Thoughts On Church Leadership.” He shared 5 points and 5 takeaways. I think that he was at his absolute best this afternoon.


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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Ski Kelms* Craig Groeschel":

Kelming and parlowing have reduced WELS to the tragic state it is in today: disrespect for the Word, unethical behavior, stupidity, ignorance, laziness, stubbornness arrogance, etc. etc. etc.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Ski Kelms* Craig Groeschel":

It's disgusting to me that this so-called church is allowed to continue as a WELS project. Sad part of it is, most people sitting in the pews throwing their weekly offering into the plate, have no idea it could be going to fund The Core. As long as they are open for business as a WELS entity, I cannot give synod a dime of my hard-earned money. What's the point of going to four years of college and another four years at the Seminary if all you need to do is copy and paste a different church's work whom we are not even in fellowship with. Ski disgusts me.

DMLC Grad Appointed at University of Phoenix

I am pleased to announce the appointment of Paul Danuser as the new Campus College Chair for Education at the Phoenix Campus.

Paul earned a Bachelor’s of Science Degree in Elementary Education from Dr. Martin Luther College (New Ulm, MN) and a Master’s of Arts Degree in Secondary Education from the University of Phoenix.

LDS Gets It Right, But Calls It a Typo

PROVO, Utah – Thousands of issues of Brigham Young University's student newspaper were pulled from newsstands because a front-page photo caption misidentified leaders of the Mormon church as apostates instead of apostles.

An apostate is a person who has abandoned religious faith, principles or a cause.

The photo in The Daily Universe on Monday was of members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, a governing body of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, at the weekend general conference.

The caption called the group the "Quorum of the Twelve Apostates." The mistake happened when a copy editor ran a computer spell check and apostate was suggested as the replacement for a misspelling of apostle.

"Unfortunately that's the one she clicked on," said Rich Evans, the paper's editorial manager. "It still should have been caught by two more levels of review after that, but again with deadline looming, the worst possible thing happened."

The typo was an honest mistake, said Carri Jenkins, spokeswoman for church-owned BYU. She said most of the 18,000 copies of the student paper were retrieved Monday morning and replaced with 10,000 corrected copies later in the day.

No university or church administrator has sought to punish anyone, Jenkins said.

"This is extremely rare," she said. "The focus today has been how and why the error occurred and what we can do to make sure that this does not happen again."

Bruce Becker's Anti-Biblical Question Echoes

Rim shots heard after each pulpit joke are an important addition.
Ba-da-bing!
Congregations of Influence in the WELS

Our own St. Matthew Church has been recognized as a "Congregation of Influence in the WELS." Thirty-four other congregations across the United States have also been recognized with this special honor. Recognition comes from two areas:

1) Consistent growth over the course of several years

2) High percentage of members in worship

Each congregation is asked to have as many members as possible respond to this question. "What factors beyond the power of the Gospel are prompting the growth of your congregation?"

Each response is to be around 300 words and all responders will be anonymous. If you are willing to serve in this capacity, please e-mail Pastor Enderle or send an e-mail to church@stmatthewsonline.org.

Church Dedication

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Read the pastor appreciation page.

***

GJ - I just copy and paste. It's called kelming in Milwaukee. In Fox Valley, the pastors will say to the secretary, alternately, "Would you parlow this report?"

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Not Alone +++ PAS has left a new comment on your post "Bruce Becker's Anti-Biblical Question Echoes":

Skubalon!
Skubalon!!
Skubalon!!!

I checked the site and you weren't making this up!

"What factors beyond the power of the Gospel are prompting the growth of your congregation?"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

300 Words?!

***


C and C Stormtrooper, after diversity training.

GJ - I do not make things up. Church and Chicaneries write my satire for me, even though they take themselves seriously.

The original question came from Bruce Becker, C and C Board Member, head of Perish Services, now a paid Mark Jeske Stormtrooper.

Did The CORE Model Itself after This Babtist Church?

The C and C response has already been anticipated.

Our expanding research team found this link on Facebook.


Wednesday, August 15, 2007
Rock 'n' Roll Church ...
Every rock 'n' roll preacher needs a rock 'n' roll church. This year, I had the privilege of meeting Sara Chappel, a Toronto journalist, over the phone. (Check out Sara's work on FaithWriters.com.) When Sara and I talked, she was trying to get a handle on the church in Canada. I told her the Central Baptist story. Here's what she took from our conversation.

Greg Glatz has written much of his doctoral dissertation and most of his sermons at a Winnipeg Starbucks, where the staff know him and, unbidden, keep him caffeinated as he taps away at his laptop and chats on his cell phone. Today, he’s hunkered down in the coffee shop against a brutal cold-snap that’s left Winnipeg ice-bound in -40 degree weather. His latte and his cell phone are both within arm’s reach, and he trades back and forth between them with an ease that’s almost hypnotic.

Glatz is the pastor – or “guru,” as he’s described on the church’s website – at Central Baptist Church, a “micro church with a mega mission” in Winnipeg. He sees nothing unusual in the image of a minister writing in a Starbucks, rather than in a dusty study surrounded by equally dusty academic tomes. In fact, it’s a perfect illustration of the kind of church he hopes to create, and the kind of church he thinks will survive an age of increasingly individualized religion. “We need to get out of our doors and into the world, which is where Jesus sent us,” he says. “I’m tired of people defining church by one hour on a Sunday morning.” So the church closes its doors on some Sunday mornings, to enable its members to go into the world and participate in community activities like charity walk-a-thons. Many of the activities of the church focus on meeting in coffee shops, or at blues concerts – anywhere other than the traditional pews n’ pulpit.

Glatz says his style of ministry is designed for “post modern pilgrims” – people disenchanted with the finger wagging and “thou shalt nots” of traditional organized religion. Church-goers – especially those with no previous religious background – “don’t want to be told what to believe and what they can’t believe. They don’t want to be dogmatized. They’re looking for guides and gurus.” To that end, he focuses on helping people experience the divine, rather than prescribing rules and beliefs. For Glatz, this “experiential” approach involves one of his twelve guitars and the church’s in-house band. It also means he uses contemporary phrases and imagery to bring Christianity closer to his congregants; one of his sermons about communion – written at Starbucks – was called “Bite Me.” Not surprisingly, many of Glatz’s parishioners are “refugees,” as Glatz calls them, from more traditional congregations, and many have no church background at all.

Glatz’s church is small, even by modern standards, although, since he’s been pastor, it’s doubled in size and is holding strong. He has a regular crowd on Sundays of about 60 people, and, although he’d like his congregation to be a little bigger – say, 85 or so – he’s perfectly happy with his small-but-strong congregation. In fact, he sees the mega church movement – congregations in the thousands, stadium seating, and massive television presence – as a dead end. “Mega is dead,” he says flatly. “Gen-Y’s – 20-somethings – aren’t finding what they want in those churches. They want house churches, coffee shops. As a rule, those churches are losing a whole generation. We’re going to have a whole lot of white elephant buildings sitting around in 10-20 years.” Although he’d welcome the extra revenue that more parishioners would bring in, Glatz’s overarching desire to build real connections between real humans means that the mega church model is completely inappropriate to his mission. For Glatz, the future of the church lies in being able to take the church into the world to make connections with people, many of whom only have the dimmest idea of what church actually means, and many of whom want to make their own decisions about what to believe.

My thanks to Sara for feeling our vibe.
posted by The Rock 'n' Roll Preacher at 8/15/2007 03:09:00 PM


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Rev. Greg Glatz
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Astrological Sign: Cancer
Zodiac Year: Dragon
Industry: Non-Profit
Occupation: Rock 'n' Roll Preacher
Location: Muddy Waters : Manitoba : Canada
Audio Clip
About Me
Rev. Greg Glatz is a postmodern pilgrim who brings the passion for guitar and God together as the Rock ‘n’ Roll Preacher. Greg is the lead pastor at Winnipeg’s Central Baptist Church and the lead guitar player for the Royal Unruh Band. He also plays guitar in the church house band and for several local projects.

Greg is a doctoral student at George Fox University in Portland, OR. He previously completed a B.A. in ancient/medieval history and languages at the University of Manitoba and a M.Div. at North American Baptist Seminary. Greg was a contributing author to Leonard Sweet’s 2008 book, Church of the Perfect Storm and has been an ongoing contributor to ChristianWeek.

Greg has one amazing wife, two incredible kids, and twelve guitars. You can find him Sunday mornings down at the church house, or tune into the GodTalk Radio Show on Sunday nights from 9-11 on CJOB 680 AM or streamed live on the world wide web.

What reason do you have to believe the earth is flat?
Are you kidding? I've lived on the prairies my whole life: how could the earth be anything except flat?!?

Interests
music guitars radio books web design cars
My Blogs Team Members
Notes from The Rock and Roll Preacher
Short remarks Brenda Arndt smash Eldon Kitty Myron D. Arndt
GodTalk Radio Show
Postmodern Pilgrims Hal Tippy Cakes G.I. Jazz Doug Koop FridgeOwl Stefany Rose Rolly George Nathan Heather

Perish Services in WELS Reads Writing on the Wall: Mene, Mene, Tekel, Go Back to Fuller and Stay There

"But I have a DMin from Fuller and a certificate from Willow Creek!"

The Ad Hoc Commission Report is summarized and linked here.

The Together message is linked here.

KJV Daniel 5:22 And thou his son, O Belshazzar, hast not humbled thine heart, though thou knewest all this; 23 But hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels of his house before thee, and thou, and thy lords, thy wives, and thy concubines, have drunk wine in them; and thou hast praised the gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know: and the God in whose hand thy breath is, and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified: 24 Then was the part of the hand sent from him; and this writing was written. 25 And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. 26 This is the interpretation of the thing:

1. MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
   
2. TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
   
3. PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.

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Perish Services, bereft of Bruce Becker but burdened with Paul Kelm, will fight for its life in the next few months before the convention.

The Love-Shack-in-Exile is now located at Holy Word, Austin, Texas, where disgraced SP Gurgel is working with Kudu Don Patterson to retake the synod for Church Shrinkage. The Church Shrinkers have had their way since 1977, when Ron Roth started the pathetic organ of false doctrine called TELL. While talking growth, the Shrinkers have taught false doctrine, lined their pockets with synod money, and devastated the synod, defenestrating anyone who dared question their infallibility.

Patterson's wealthy suburban church can afford multiple safaris in Africa and two properties owned by Kudu Don, and yet they still have their hands out for synod subsidy when other entities are truly suffering from a lack of funds.

I heard Mark Jeske speak with typical arrogance about his desire to see Northwestern College closed. Apparently the faculty did not bow down to him while he was a student there. Or they mentioned Lutheran doctrine often enough to irritate him. Jeske will be another focal point in saving Perish Services.

Do not forget A-town, the Fox Valley churches led astray by John Parlow, Steve Witte, and Ron Ash. They are self-indulgent, bongo-drum beating beehives of anti-Lutheran activity. Parlow is a failure who could not scrape up enough funds to have one campus (denied, of course - anonymously). Like Jeske and Patterson, Parlow gets fat subsidies when his congregation should be supporting others.

The CORE is the shining light, the best example of what Perish Services, Church and Chicanery, and Schwaermer training has to offer:

1. The name Lutheran abandoned as an obstacle.
   
2. The word church also left by the wayside as a barrier to growth.
   
3. Reaching out to WELS members; aka, skimming the cream while calling it a mission.
   
4. Rock music.
   
5. An obsession with hedonism.
   
6. A full-time assistant to help with work that is clearly not being done anyway - minimal worship and Bible study, no Lutheran content provided, maximum Tweeting.
   
7. And of course, wasting a great deal of money while providing a high visibility embarrassment to all Lutherans, regardless of race, gender, synod, country of origin, or sexual orientation.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Perish Services in WELS Reads Writing on the Wall:...":

St. Peter's in Freedom, WI is the parent of their whorish daughter congregation, The CORE. Perhaps they've taken Freedom too far in their thinking of what is God-pleasing.

Certainly no one can claim this is a good use of resources and proper stewardship. Is there really no better use for $100,000 or whatever this costs to get off the ground?

They may gently reassure themselves that it is free grant money, so it doesn't really cost the congregation cash to run CORE. But it does cost them their reputation as proper stewards and discerners of right from wrong.


I Cor 4:1-2:
Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Perish Services in WELS Reads Writing on the Wall:...":

I think you guys should worry more about minding your own p's and q's and let the Lord decide how he wants his church to grow. If it is of man it will fail. If it is of God it will succeed and we must have the wisdom and MATURITY to accept either outcome as the Lord sees fit. You guys are the first to throw stones and yet how innocent are all of you? What divisive talk. You cling to your own understandings and you are as guilty as those you are accusing. You decry the mysteries of God and yet presume to know it all. May the Lord have mercy on all of us!

***

GJ - The Church and Chicaneries wanted to be judged by their results. That is fine, though anti-Biblical. They have decreased the size of the denomination during 30+ years of population growth. They have bankrupted the Wisconsin Synod during a time of enormous gift-giving through St. Marvin of Schwan. As Donald Trump would say, upon emerging from yet another bankruptcy, "You're fired!"

Chris Jackson - Not Doing Well

My wife, often known as Mrs. Ichabod, is not doing well. She is still--or again--suffering from pneumonia. That is not a good combination with a bad heart and a history of Valley Fever (a local disorder which never goes away completely). She is allergic to the favored big gun in antibiotics (Levaquin), thanks to previous use.

She has great fun hearing about responses to Ichabod. I noticed two more followers on the list.

Modifying Parlow's motto, I would say, "Blog fast - the Word is efficacious."

Your prayers are appreciated.

Update, Maundy Thursday - Chris is definitely better this morning.

For Want of a Tweet, A Church Was Lost

All 320 of Ski's Tweets are missing.
Gesammelte Werke der Skitheologie - ganz kapoof!

Relax and laugh by scanning the eructations of the Pricey Executive Assistant.

RT @pwilson: RT @garylamb: If you ever want to know if your team understands & backs your vision observe what makes them angry.
about 4 hours ago from TweetDeck

been quite a day. headed to bed for what is hopefully a restful night's sleep. i need one.
about 18 hours ago from TweetDeck

RT @tonymorganlive: age group that uses twitter most? would you believe 45 to 54? http://bit.ly/kIkzk
about 18 hours ago from TweetDeck

2nd edition of video blog from @gotocore. check it out. http://bit.ly/bFkxC
about 23 hours ago from TweetDeck

Here is the video linked above:

Are all the people in the video unchurched mission prospects? Or local WELS members?

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "For Want of a Tweet, A Church Was Lost":

When Ski says in the video that "we at the CORE are committed to transforming the city for Jesus", it implies that the other area WELS churches aren't doing anything. Sort of a "CORE to the rescue" idea. Seems like a slap in the face to the faithful Christians who have been proclaiming the Gospel in Appleton for many years. Curious.

+Martinus

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A view on the Lutheran liturgy as Gospel proclamation is found here.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "For Want of a Tweet, A Church Was Lost":

CORE aka the ALIBI provides a great cover for persons who wish to conceal their religious beliefs – assuming they have some. Here is a nondescript organization perfected for denial: not Lutheran, not WELS, not Christian, etc., yet anything you want it to be in a given situation. This is real cowardice when facing a critical crowd. It certainly does not witness of Christ.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Church and Chicanery's Mission Does the Vision Thi...":

With all of the "relevant" message jazz and focus on bringing in the "unchurched" etc., and use of so called contemporary Christian music, it makes me wonder why we even ever bothered with having had to memorize hymns. You know, the ones that actually contain doctrine, warnings of straying, warnings of false doctrine, talked clearly of the Trinity, and yes, all focused on Christ and the cross and what He did for us. There sure doesn't seem to be much of that in the new paradigm churches. Although I did memorize the refrain from a contemporary song that a WELS pastor on the staff of St. Marks, (when they were still in Greenbay), had written and the worship team performed. It went, and I quote, "Yes Lord, yes Lord, yes Lord, Yes. "Yes Lord, yes Lord, yes Lord, Yes." As Luther would say, “what does this mean?”

Do you think that CORE will have their partners, (nee members) do any memorization of hymns? And what do other WELS people, who will no doubt be going there, think about their having had to learn and memorize such great things? I can imagine that they will only be thinking, "See, it didn't really matter, all that matters is the 'heart of worship', at least people are coming now." It will likely contribute to what I call the dumbing down of Lutheranism and the lessening of decent education and quality catechization.

I truly do wonder what impact this kind of re-invented church will have on what was once known as Christian or Lutheran worship. Certainly there will be classes and memorization and good quality education teaching the full counsel of God. There will, won't there?.......won't there?........hello..........won't there?.......is anyone listening?..... ......hello.............I think it's dead...............hello....

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "For Want of a Tweet, A Church Was Lost":

Plagiarism alert - in response to the quote from Anonymous about the "Yes, Lord" refrain, unless the pastor at St. Mark's was named Darrell Jackson, this chorus is awfully close to the one from the contemporary Christian song "Trading My Sorrows."

http://www.christianlyricsonline.com/artists/darrell-evans/trading-my-sorrows.html

+Martinus

***

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Navigation: D \ Darrell Evans \ Trading My Sorrows

I'm trading my sorrow
I'm trading my shame
I'm laying it down for the joy of the Lord

I'm trading my sickness
I'm trading my pain
I'm laying it down for the joy of the Lord

Chorus:
And we say yes Lord yes Lord yes yes Lord
Yes Lord yes Lord yes yes Lord
Yes Lord yes Lord yes yes Lord Amen

I'm pressed but not crushed persecuted not abandoned
Struck down but not destroyed
I'm blessed beyond the curse for his promise will endure
And his joy's gonna be my strength

Though the sorrow may last for the night
His joy comes with the morning

Endorsements Keep Rolling In

Actual ad - At least they didn't say, "Start them on coke." That would be more relevant and relational.


grene has left a new comment on your post "Rock and Roll Blog Swan Song: Not With a Bang... B...":

I recently came accross your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I dont know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.


Miriam

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Endorsements Keep Rolling In":

Pertinent quotes for consideration by the CORE and other similar churches:

“One of the most popular current errors, and the one out of which springs most of the noisy, blustering religious activity being carried in evangelical circles these days, is the notion that as times change the church must change with them. Christians must adapt their methods by the demands of the people. If they want ten-minute sermons, give them ten-minute sermons. If they want truth in capsule form, give it to them. If they want pictures, give them plenty of pictures. If they like stories, tell them stories. If they prefer to absorb their religious instruction through drama, go along with them—give them what they want. ‘The message is the same, only the method changes,’ say the advocates of compromise.”

- A.W. Tozer


“The devil has seldom done a cleverer thing than hinting to the church that part of their mission is to provide entertainment for the people, with a view to winning them…providing amusement for the people is nowhere spoken of in the Scriptures as a function of the church…the need is for Biblical doctrine, so understood and felt that it sets men aflame.”

- CH Spurgeon

***

GJ - Tozer and Spurgeon are two old fuddie-duddies who had the Church and Chicaneries pegged long before Fuller Creek regenerated the rascals as pod-people of the New Age. Note how often the Pricey Executive Assistant shares her Buddhist/business management wisdom with everyone.

Church and Chicanery's Mission Does the Vision Thing

RT @perrynoble: God asks leaders 2 do lots of things...but never 2 compromise His vision & become a coward when facing a critical crowd!
about 15 hours ago from TweetDeck

been quite a day. headed to bed for what is hopefully a restful night's sleep. i need one.
22 minutes ago from TweetDeck

Prophecy sent to Ski: "You will outgrow the Imax!"

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Church and Chicanery's Mission Does the Vision Thi...":

Isn't Perry Noble the guy who berates his members and ridicules traditional Christian worship practices?

http://apprising.org/2009/03/perry-noble-sounding-not-so-noble/

No wonder there is criticism of him - and justifiable at that. Not sure this is the type of minister a "WELS" church should befriend or "tweet." Oh, I forgot - we've rid ourselves of troublesome labels like "Lutheran" and "WELS".

+Martinus

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Church and Chicanery's Mission Does the Vision Thi...":

I'm sure the suspense is unbearable...

For those of you wondering, the church pictured as Pastor Ski's annex is actually St. Paul's (WELS), a block away from the Popcorn Cathedral (Real. Buttery. Relevant.)


St. Paul's website is:
www.stpaulappletonwi.com

The blessed saints that worship at St. Paul's and teach their little lambs at the school offer this confession on their website:

"As Christians united in common faith, St. Paul Evangelical Lutheran Church exists to nurture believers and bring the lost to faith in Jesus through God's Holy Word and Sacraments."


(Real. Worship. Here.)


+Diet O. Worms

***

This is how an Imax theatre looks when properly PhotoShopped.
In fact, this is an untouched photo of St. Paul (WELS) in Appleton.

Electronic Banner Changes To Keep the Mission Relevant

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Electronic Banner Changes To Keep the Mission Rele...":

Evidently the cross is no longer relevant, but CORE is.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Electronic Banner Changes To Keep the Mission Rele...":

"The Core" is also the title of a 2003 science fiction film about drilling to the center of the earth. This movie has been universally panned as one of the worst science fiction movies of all time -- if not THE worst. I sat through this movie once on a trans-atlantic flight and laughed the whole time becuase of how awful it was. Whenever I hear "The Core" I think of unrealistic action, bad acting, stupid plot lines, an underdeveloped message, and phony dialog. Then again, maybe the name fits perfectly.

Church and Change Board Goes Stealth

The furtive B. A. Lampe probably wrote, anonymously, the note of encouragement on The CORE Facebook page. At Church and Change, they call that "witnessing." In Phoenix, the police call it tagging.

The Church and Change board members must not like the attention they are getting. Earlier, the board links included a bio and a photo of each board member. Note the changes to their Least Wanted List:

1. Ski has no bio and no photo.
   Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Church and Change Board Goes Stealth":
   
   Something else has gone blank - Pastor Ski's Twitter page. Hmm.
   
   +Martinus
   
   
2. Brian Arthur Lampe (CEO ministries, UPS driver) has no bio and no photo.
   
   Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Church and Change Board Goes Stealth":
   
   I'm mystified as to what qualifies Brian ARTHUR Lampe to teach others about ministry. Read some of the papers from his site - www.ceo-ministries.com. Not exactly earth-shattering revelations and not very well-written or formatted. Yet they are presented as if his knowledge is superior to all others.
   
   +Martinus
   
   "Brian Arthur Lampe delivers a one-two punch to the devil and his schemes with his high powered, enthusiastic, energetic life-applying Biblical motivational speaking. We are on a quest for authentic God. By including Brian Arthur Lampe, you will have more than just a rally or a Bible study. You and your congregation will be providing men, women, and youth with an encouraging process that teaches them how to live lives of authentic Christianity as modeled by Jesus Christ and directed by the Word of God." Christian Speaker Network describes Brian's denomination as Christian.
   
   [GJ - Is the Christian Speaker Network another WELS group?...or it is unionistic? Aren't you glad Gurgel shut down Church and Chicanery?]
   
   
3. John Huebner still has a bio and a photo.
   
4. Barry Spencer has a bio but the photo has disappeared.
   
   Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Church and Change Board Goes Stealth":
   
   Surprise - Barry's back. His photo has reappeared. However, not sure what this means in his bio: "Barry feels it is important to empower God’s people to discover and embrace relevant and innovative methods for carrying out gospel ministry." Our focus should be on relevant and innovative methods now, rather than simply preaching the Gospel?
   
   +Martinus
   
   
5. Sarah Owens still has a bio and a photo.
   
6. Jeff Davis, professional fund-raiser, has a photo but the bio is deleted.
   
7. Ron Ash, retired from Freedom, Wiscosin, chairman, has a bio and photo.
   

Ichabodians, do not worry. I have copied all the photos to my directory.

This disappearing act is why I copy content and post it.

Heretic today, gone tomorrow.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Church and Change Board Goes Stealth":

No wonder they scurried.

http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?2601&collectionID=1743

The ad hoc report really laid the wood to the Perish Service crew, at least using as diplomatic language as could be offered.

Read pages 19-20, esp. 812-817.

+Diet O. Worms

Eructations from the Cathedral

New revelations emanate daily, sometimes hourly,
from the Delphic priestess.

loswhit wow! heaven is going to be awesome. makes the daily struggles of a bad monday seem so small - so worth the fight #twiblestudy
about 15 hours ago from TweetDeck in reply to loswhit
[Office Space: Brian, Chotchkie's Waiter: "Okay. Sounds like a case of the Mondays."]

RT @perrynoble: God asks leaders 2 do lots of things...but never 2 compromise His vision & become a coward when facing a critical crowd!
about 15 hours ago from TweetDeck

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Eructations from the Cathedral":

What is the purpose of The CORE's website since it is so rarely updated? The last entry in "News and Events" is from February. The "Calendar" contains no entries. And the little Flash movie of Ski that you have to wait through before you get to the site itself is not only annoying -- it's really bad website design. For a church that wants to be "cutting edge", it's seriously lacking in the technology department. Other than the "deep" Bible studies they offer on Twitter, of course. And their online Bible information course called "The Road", which is under lock and key in "The Valley".

+Martinus

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Eructations from the Cathedral":

anon 4:22. The pic is real, except for the photoshopped text in the signage to the right of the big "core" sign. The real sign actually reads "Real. Relevant. Popcorn."

Just Kidding. The big sign actually says, "Evangelical Lutheran Church."

LOL! Had you going there.

"Real. Relevant. Rockin' A-Town."

Hmmmph. Now I can't remember what it really said. Since I'm churched, and not part of their target demographic of "un-churched, but available for Sunday night rock concerts" I guess it went right over my head.

+Diet O. Worms

Shroud of Turin - In the News

The Masonic boys' group, Demolay, is named after the Knights Templar leader who was arrested in France, tortured,
and burned at the stake, on Friday the 13th.
I was recruited for Demolay--due to Masons in the family--
but I declined the opportunity to wear those cool rayon robes.

ROME, April 7 (UPI) -- Research suggests the Shroud of Turin -- said to be Jesus' burial cloth -- was hidden by medieval knights for more than a century, the Vatican said Sunday.

The Vatican's weekly newspaper said a researcher in the Vatican Secret Archives has found a document that suggests the shroud was hidden by the Knights Templar and secretly venerated for more than 100 years after the Crusades, The Times of London reported Monday.

The newspaper said the shroud disappeared in 1204 during the Fourth Crusade and was not seen by anyone outside the order until the middle of the fourteenth century.

Researcher Barbara Frale told the Vatican's L'Osservatore Romano that the missing years had long puzzled historians. The findings are based on a document in which a young Frenchman who entered the order in 1287 testified that he was instructed to venerate the shroud during his initiation, Frale said.

***

GJ - Some claim that the Free Masons came directly from the Knights Templar. The Masonic Lodge has many clones (Red Man's Lodge, Modern Woodmen, Oddfellows) in America. In England the Anglican clergy and the royal family have been the mainstay of the Lodge.

The Shroud has no history until it was connected with the Knights Templar. Some think it is Demolay portrayed as a second Christ. When carbon dating showed the Shroud was new rather than old, the Vatican reworked the story. Why kill the goose that lays such golden eggs? The Shroud is a money-maker.

Here is a story I ran into while searching for a little background.

WELS Enthusiasm Leads to Rome, Pasadena, and Willow Creek

An old Schlitz beer ad portrays the ideal WELS marriage, even today.

Interesting dialog between Dave and a WELS members. Sounds like we're about to lose one to Rome.

Dialogue With a Lutheran Inquirer, on Lutheran-Catholic Differences
Monday, April 06, 2009

This is an exchange I had with a friendly Lutheran woman, on the CHNI board; posted with her permission.

* * * * *

Hi [name],

So nice to "meet" you, and welcome to our forum. I hope you enjoy it here and find what you want and need.

I hope you all can help me. I have a few specific questions that may seem like I'm trying to play devil's advocate or to stir up trouble, but I assure you I'm not; I am a sincere seeker! I converted to Catholic many years ago but didn't stay in very long, and even though I joined the Lutheran church a few years ago, I read Catholic web sites all the time. Hm, what does that tell me?

Understood. I'll try my best to offer some decent answers.

Anyway. Here are some things I thought of yesterday while sitting in church. I've read a whole lot of posts here but have not been able to find any answers written in the way I'm asking these questions. My faith issues are sort of reaching critical mass. (no pun intended!)

Please don't get too scholarly on me though; I'm not that bright!

Depends on how difficult the questions are to answer! Sometimes an objection can be voiced in one sentence, but it takes 10 pages to properly answer. But I'm just a regular old layperson and not a scholar. I have no formal training in theology.

1. The thing that set this off most recently was a Bible study about marriage. Even the pastor couldn't come up with a definitive answer about divorce; he allowed as how the person could divorce for infidelity or desertion, and "there's always forgiveness", and that was about that. Not only that, but some participants in the class didn't even agree with him, taking the stance of no divorce allowed. Well, even though I'm a Lutheran, I don't think that's right. That's not a question so much as it is an expression of frustration. I don't see any ultimate authority being exercised there. Maybe Protestants don't need ultimate authority despite all that has been written on the subject. It just doesn't sit right with me. Oh, and BTW, I am even divorced and remarried and I'm still uncomfortable with it.

The traditional Catholic position is that a valid sacramental marriage between two baptized Christians is indissoluble. You are right to be uncomfortable, because you instinctively know that marriage was meant to be lifelong. Catholics, of course, have this thing called annulments: which is a determination that an ostensible marriage may not in fact have been so, because key conditions were not met. For a treatment of the divorce issue, that incorporates some input from Protestant commentators, see my paper:

Biblical Evidence for the Prohibition of Divorce (+ Discussion)

2. Catholics say that the Church is protected from error by the Holy Spirit so the Catholic Church has to be the right one. Well, what if the invention of the printing press and Luther's hellraising was God's way of making sure the gates of hell did not prevail against the church? You know, like the guy sitting on top of the house in a flood, praying for God to rescue him, waving off helicopters --with God answering, "I sent you three helicopters, why didn't you take one of them?" What if the road made a major fork back in the 16th century and Catholics don't recognize it; sort of like the Jews not recognizing Jesus as the obvious Messiah?

I understand the reasoning (having once held it myself) but I don't think that case can be made, because many things in Luther's teaching essentially departed from what came before. If indeed, this was a true reform (as is claimed by Lutherans and Protestants in general) and not a revolt or revolution, then it would have to be shown that distinctively Lutheran teachings were consistent with prior Church history. I've documented myself how Luther introduced at least 50 doctrinal novelties, even before he was excommunicated (in his three great treatises of 1520):

50 Ways In Which Luther Had Departed From Catholic Orthodoxy or Established Practice by 1520 (and Why He Was Excommunicated)

Lutherans often claim, e.g., that their teachings are more in line with the Church Fathers than Catholic teaching is. I think (with all due respect; and I do love and respect my Lutheran brothers and sisters) that if that debate takes place, the Lutheran loses every time. They just don't have the historical facts on their side. It's a question of fact. I've engaged in several of these debates myself, with educated Lutherans (one of them a professor of history). Each issue has to be approached in its own right, and then it is an historical discussion. What did the Fathers believe?

3. Luther's personal offensiveness is justifiably castigated by Catholics: "How could such a vulgar, rude, (etc.) man possibly be used by God for His purposes?" Well, I can see that, but how about St. Peter himself who denied Jesus three times? Or, other saints or religious who had great saving faith but might have been obnoxious as well? The Pope when teaching about faith and morals is said to be infallible, but everyone knows that there have been personally reprehensible Popes in history. Maybe Luther was a guy like that?

Yeah; we understand the difference between impeccability and infallibility. You are right. There is, however, a big difference in Luther's case. St. Peter wasn't introducing anything himself, of his own authority. He was a disciple and eyewitness of Jesus, and simply passed on what he had seen and had been taught.

Luther, on the other hand, was introducing new teachings that hadn't been held prior to his time (contrary to the claims made), and he was dogmatically claiming that he was right and that the entire Catholic Church, with its 1500 year history, was wrong. This is vastly different from Peter or indeed any pope whatever. I recently did a big study of Erasmus' response to Luther, in the former's book, Hyperaspistes (1526). He makes several cogent points about Luther's anti-traditionalism and how implausible it was. Here are a few examples:
We are dealing with this: would a stable mind depart from the opinion handed down by so many famous men famous for holiness and miracles, depart from the decision of the church, and commit our souls to the faith of someone like you who has sprung up just now with a few followers, although the leading men of your flock do not agree either with you or among themselves . . . (p. 203)

And here once more you have the impudence to scoff at orthodox Greek writers whom you deprive of all authority by a marvellous assumption, that the saints have sometimes erred because they are human . . . (p. 207)

Therefore do not insist that on the issue of free will you have the advantage of having Augustine so often on your side -- as you boast, though I will soon show that this is quite false -- lest we turn your comparison back against you. Or if you deprive them [the Church Fathers] of all authority, stop making use of their testimony. If they said many things devoutly, many things excellently, although they sometimes made mistakes, allow us to make use of what they said well, as you claim the right to do also. (p. 208)

. . . you demand that we reject their [the Church Fathers'] authority, that we hold to your teachings as if they were articles of the faith. At least grant us, for their teachings as well as yours, the same right to suspend judgment about either. (p. 225)

. . . I called into question which interpretation we should follow, that of the ancient Fathers, which has been approved for so many centuries, or yours, which has sprung up so recently. (p. 244)

Now look at the laws which you prescribe, though you are not yet the victor: lay down whatever arms are supplied by the ancient orthodox teachers, the schools of the theologians, the authority of councils and popes, the consensus of the whole Christian people over so many centuries; we accept nothing but Scripture, but in such a way that we alone have authoritative certainty in interpreting it; our interpretation is what was meant by the Holy Spirit; that brought forward by others, however great, however many, arises from the spirit of Satan and from madness; what the orthodox taught, what the authority of the church handed down, what the people of Christ embraced, what the schools defend is the deadly venom of Satan; what I teach is the spirit of life; believe that in Scripture there is no obscurity at all, not even so much as to need a judge; or, though all are blind, I am not blind; for I am conscious that I have the Spirit of Christ, which enables me to judge everyone but no one to judge me; I refuse to be judged, I require compliance; let no one be the least bit moved by the multitude, the magnitude, the breadth and depth, the miracles, the holiness of the church's saints; they all were lost if they meant what they wrote, unless perhaps they came to their senses before the last day of their lives; whoever does not believe my proofs either lacks common sense or commits blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and subverts Christianity. If we accept such laws as these, the victory is indeed yours. Then again, you demand that we not believe the ancient orthodox Fathers because they sometimes disagreed amongst themselves, whereas the few of you fight very much with each other about the prophets, images, church rules, baptism, the Eucharist; and you want us nevertheless to believe your teachings, especially because every day we expect new ones. And we are called blasphemous because we still cling to the old church and do not dare to join your camp . . . I am not making any of this up; I am saying what is certain and well known. (p. 261)

You might be interested in this whole series of papers:

Luther Meets His Match, Part I: Correspondence Between and Concerning Erasmus and Luther: 1517 to 1534

Part II: Luther's Relentless, Slanderous Insults of Erasmus in Bondage of the Will and Table-Talk

Part III: Erasmus' Hyperaspistes (1526): Luther's Extreme Dogmatism (To Disagree With Luther is to be Damned)

Part IV: Erasmus' Hyperaspistes (1526): The Rebellious and Anti-Traditional Elements of Luther's Revolt

Part V: Erasmus' Hyperaspistes (1526): Excoriation of Luther's Ubiquitous Personal Insults and Calumnies

Part VI: Erasmus' Hyperaspistes (1526): Sola Scriptura & Perspicuity (Total Clarity) of Scripture Critiqued

Part VII: Erasmus' Hyperaspistes (1526): Luther's Dissembling, Hypocrisy, Arrogance, Inflammatory Rhetoric, Etc.


4. It seems to me that the Protestant way of looking at Sola Scriptura is not really that they think/claim the Bible says of itself that it is the only thing to rely on in faith and practice, but that it is evident from years of objective analysis of what's said in the Bible. That all that is needed for salvation is put forth in the Bible without needing to rely on Tradition or the Magisterium. Of course I know that this way of thinking has caused endless Protestant variations which I think is wrong. Also, this is not to call into question how Protestants got the Bible or anything. What I mean is, I've never heard of a Protestant saying that the Bible itself states that the Bible is all that is needed.

Sola Scriptura means (from many Protestant definitions that I have seen) that the Bible is the only infallible authority, and that no church or pope or particular Christian tradition is infallible. It was a frontal assault against the authority of the Catholic Church. Catholics believe that the Bible is materially sufficient, but not formally sufficient, meaning that all that is required for salvation can be found there, but that authoritative proclamation of correct doctrine is still needed, because men on their own split into innumerable factions, as Protestantism itself has proven beyond any doubt. I wrote a whole book about it recently:

501 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura

I'd be happy to send you a Word or PDF version for free.

5. For the more "obscure" teachings like Purgatory and the Marian doctrines, Protestants seem to draw a line that they won't cross, saying that those teachings aren't in the Bible even though Catholics point to those teachings' "seeds" in the Bible. So where is that line that they won't cross, delineating which teachings are/aren't in the Bible? Right, I should ask a Protestant theologian that question, but maybe a Catholic could enlighten me without getting defensive, dismissive, or stymied.

It's pretty simple, in the final analysis, I think. For the most part, the "line" is simply that (what is now seen as) distinctively Catholic tradition was rejected by Protestants. The "line" is wherever the Catholic Church disagreed with Luther. It has far more to do with that than it does with what is supposedly "biblical" and what isn't. Also, the line comes as a result of the premises involved in Protestant distinctives, which rule out various traditional Catholic doctrines by logical reduction. A choice was made, and every time we make one choice, many other things are logically excluded.

For example, Luther held to sola fide, which meant that God declares someone righteous (imputed or extrinsic justification). This is how he is saved. This one belief (which I argue is most unbiblical) takes out notions of merit, purgatory, penance, and moral assurance of salvation, as opposed to an absolute assurance. Of course, for many Protestants, the same belief takes out baptismal regeneration. But Luther didn't go that far, and retained that. He was still sacramental to a large extent. The Real Presence is rejected by most Protestants on largely the same basis, because they don't think realism and sacraments are necessary to pass on God's grace. But Luther (and, I contend, the Bible itself) profoundly disagreed. Nevertheless, he felt compelled to reject the Sacrifice of the Mass, that was also firmly taught by the Church Fathers.

Luther also rejected purgatory, also, because he came to believe in a sort of "soul sleep" that even Calvin rejected, as I recently discovered, to my surprise:

Martin Luther's Heretical Notion of Soul Sleep and Rejection of Purgatory and Prayers For the Dead Based on This Denial (+ William Tyndale Agrees)

That's a classic case of false premises causing one to reject something else. If souls after death are unconscious, then obviously purgatory is a senseless position. Luther saw that purgatory was clearly taught in 2 Maccabees. When a few years later he rejected belief in purgatory (he hadn't yet in 1517 or even by 1519 in his famous Leipzig Disputation with Eck), then he also rejected 2 Maccabees. So now part of what was the accepted Bible in Christianity for 1100-1200 years is rejected because Luther had this goofy, heretical, unbiblical view of soul sleep. One thing affects another.

Luther taught sola Scriptura. This takes out (by the nature of logical contradiction) apostolic succession, an infallible church, infallible councils, infallible popes, infallible apostolic tradition, and the hierarchical or episcopal form of Church government. All of that goes once sola Scriptura is asserted. But sola Scriptura was not the patristic or biblical position. I have shown the former in over 100 pages in my book on the Church Fathers and Catholicism. The latter was shown in an entire book, and even from Scripture alone in over 100 pages in my latest book:

Biblical Evidence For Catholicism (Or, "Dave's Topical Bible")

You can have an e-book copy of that, too, for free, if you like.

Does the way I've asked any of these questions make any sense?

It makes perfect sense, coming from your Lutheran presuppositions. One thing follows from another. You seem to be questioning some of those presuppositions (or you are willing to subject them to scrutiny, anyway) and wondering if they can hold up. I maintain that they cannot. Whatever is true in Lutheranism, was already true and present in Catholic teaching for 1500 years.

Truth be told, I'm getting bored like anything going to the Lutheran church. Same old Law & Gospel, same old "faith alone" (except where St. James says *not by faith alone*!), same old "silent where the Bible is silent" etc. etc. etc. BTW, I don't mean to offend any Lutherans/Protestants who read this.

I think there is a lot more to Christianity than Lutheranism (or any form of Protestantism) offers. That's why I am a Catholic (I came in in 1991 after being a fervent evangelical for 13 years, including three spent at a Lutheran church: though I was not fully Lutheran in a doctrinal sense). We believe that Catholicism offers the fullness of fully-developed apostolic Christianity.

Thank you SO much...

My pleasure, I hope my answers (agree or disagree) are helpful to you, in working through these issues; and I'd be delighted to discuss any of these things further. I particularly enjoy dialoguing with Lutherans, as I've had a lot of good dialogues with them (including a series of big, meaty dialogues with two friendly Lutheran pastors).

Dave, I look forward to reading the links you provided. I gotta say, the quote from Erasmus to Luther was kind of surprising. Well, not that a Catholic defending his faith is surprising of course, just that Erasmus' calling out Luther on his attitude shows me that there must be lots of stuff Luther thought that maybe most Lutherans don't know about.

I guess that means that it's over and above Luther's personality, that his basic errors from "stuff he made up" would mean that it's just not a case of God using an imperfect man to keep the Church going? OK, I get that; in fact from the Erasmus quote you provided, it looks as though Luther was trying to have things both ways and even hypocritical, e.g. "don't quote Church fathers if you don't accept their authority" and this in particular, "though all are blind, I am not blind; for I am conscious that I have the Spirit of Christ, which enables me to judge everyone but no one to judge me; I refuse to be judged, I require compliance" which really does uncover Luther's attitude.

It's nice to hear from people who used to be Protestant too! I think your background probably places even more emphasis on Bible study than Lutherans do. We have an anemic Bible study before worship service (as I alluded to with the marriage one) but that's about it.

The books are on their way, in your regular e-mail. Enjoy! And feel free to keep the discussion going in whatever direction you want to take it.

Dave, thanks for your downloads, from what I'm reading so far they'll help me a lot! I will read all of your links as time permits too. Dave, I have just finished the papers you wrote about Erasmus answering Luther. And, I also read a couple of papers having to do with the movie "Luther", Luther's polemics, his unintentional advocacy of the peasants' uprising, and his EXTREME nastiness, vulgarity, etc. It took me a while but--even though I knew about his personality (as I'd asked about in my original post) --good grief, this man was horrible! I won't get into specifics, but I will say that I found myself cheering Erasmus on, and picturing some honest, erudite politician (yeah, assuming there are some still around) having to defend himself and the whole Western Tradition against some unhinged radical who unleashes the devil against it all. (Your turnabout essay about Catholics doing the same thing against the Protestants in modern-day America was brilliant!) Now I will delve into the two you sent me; it does take a while to read while I'm waiting for stuff to happen at work, but I will get it done!

Thanks for reading, [name], and I am happy to be of any service. You can also have my book about Luther if you like, but most of what is in it is on my Luther page somewhere already.

God bless you as you ponder all these things. I don't believe Luther was a "bad" man, but certainly many of his notions and doctrines can be opposed on the grounds of Scripture and apostolic and patristic tradition.

I am WELS [Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod] . . . I am starting to feel increasingly judgmental and thinking about a Catholic Mass when I'm at church, rather than focusing on the sermon. Like, trying to notice when the pastor says stuff about Luther or what Lutheranism teaches, and instead thinking about what the Catholic church teaches, as far as I'm able to. Obviously there's a whole lot of stuff I don't know! . . . I'm continuing to read and think and pray; I always pray and ask God to lead me to the truth, no matter where it is.

Chytraeus - Editor, Book of Concord

Chytraeus is real, relational, and relevant.


"How is a person justified before God? This occurs solely by faith in the Son of God, Jesus Christ; that is, freely, not because of any works or merits of one's own but only because of the one Mediator, Jesus Christ, who became the sacrificial victim and propitiation on our behalf. By this sacrifice, man obtained forgiveness of sins and became righteous; that is, God-pleasing and acceptable. His righteousness was imputed to man for Christ's sake, and man becomes an heir of eternal life when he believes with certainty that God gives him these blessings for the sake of His Son."
David Chytraeus, A Summary of the Christian Faith (1568), p. 105.

"Christian righteousness is the forgiveness of sin, the imputation of the righteousness of Christ and acceptance to eternal life. It is free, not the result of any virtues or works but is given solely because of Christ, the Mediator, and apprehended by faith alone."
David Chytraeus, A Summary of the Christian Faith (1568), p. 106.

"Scripture therefore uses these words, 'We are justified by faith,' to teach both: 1) What the reason (or merit) for justification is, or what the blessings of Christ are; to wit, that through and for the sake of Christ alone we are granted forgiveness of sins, righteousness and eternal life; and 2. How these should be applied or transferred to us; namely, by embracing the promise and relying on Christ by faith alone."
David Chytraeus, A Summary of the Christian Faith (1568), p. 107.

"What is the difference between Christianity and paganism? Paganism has no sure Word of God and no true faith in Christ. It is unsettled. In place of the one true God, pagans worship various factitious deities and countless idols with ceremonies, works and sacrifices selected according to human judgment. They imagine that they compensate for their sins with this worship, pacify their gods and make them gracious and purchase, as it were, blessings from them."
David Chytraeus, A Summary of the Christian Faith (1568), p. 19.

"What is the reason for certainty in Christian doctrine?...7. the hatred of the devil over against this doctrine;
David Chytraeus, A Summary of the Christian Faith (1568), p. 21.

"Creation is the external action of God by which God, seeing all other things, visible and invisible, fashioned them out of nothing with this plan of His that He might establish for Himself an eternal Church to acknowledge and praise Him and in which He might dwell forever."
David Chytraeus, A Summary of the Christian Faith (1568), p. 45.

"The good angels are spiritual beings, created in the beginning after the image of God; that is, they are intelligent, truthful, just and free. They are not part of another species or the souls of people; and they are immortal, ordained by God to praise Him and to be servants of the Church and protectors of the devout, Hebrews 1, Psalm 34, Psalm 103, and Psalm 104."
David Chytraeus, A Summary of the Christian Faith (1568), p. 47.


"There are eight sins which militate against faith:

1. Epicurean and Academic doubts about God, His providence and the certainty of the doctrine handed down through Christ and the Apostles.

2. A lack of faith toward God.

3. In regard to the forgiveness of sins, to entertain doubts as to whether we are in the grace of God or if we please God.

4. Despair.

5. Stubbornness of presumption.

6. Confidence in human aids.

7. Superstition.

8. Witchcraft."

David Chytraeus, A Summary of the Christian Faith (1568), p. 65f.

"The sins which militate against the Third Commandment are the profanation of the Sabbath through neglect and contempt of the ministry, through Judaic and superstitious observance of the Sabbath, or through a shifting of the ministry into the kingdom of this world. The faithfulness of those who teach is the virtue by which the ministers of the Church, aware of their modest skill in Christian doctrine, carefully and zealousy discharge and steadfastly protect all the duties of the faithful dispenser of the mysteries of God in teaching, debating, comforting and setting their hearers an example of true devotion and of all the virtues. The other extreme are faithlessness, heedless teaching or negligence in office, or deserting the ministry because of excessive anxiety or concern over one's own weakness."
David Chytraeus, A Summary of the Christian Faith (1568), p. 71f.

"The purest and best part of the human race, the special nursery and flower of God's Church, is tender youth. Youth retains the gift of the Holy Spirit which it received in Baptism; it learns eagerly the true doctrine about god and our Redeemer, Jesus Christ; it calls Him God with a chaste mind and with a simple, pure faith; it thanks Him with a quick and joyful heart for the blessings received from Him; in its studies and the other parts of life, it carries out the duties commanded it; and it obeys God and parents reverently. Particularly God-pleasing, therefore, are the studies of one's earliest age: prayer, obedience and praises which honor God, regardless of how weak and stammering its voice may be."
David Chytraeus, A Summary of the Christian Faith (1568), p. 9.

Which Men Do Not Belong in This Picture?Guilt by Association Does Not Work Well

This painting by Jason Jasperson is found in the seminary lobby. The painting depicts Martin Luther (top), through whom God restored the Gospel in the Reformation; Martin Chemnitz (middle), the leading light in Lutheranism after Luther; and C.F.W. Walther (bottom), the principal founder of confessional Lutheranism in this country. Their confession centers in the sacrificial death of the Lamb of God on the cross and His glorious resurrection, by which the whole world was declared righteous in Christ.

***

GJ - I am looking for the verse where God declared everyone righteous. Calvinistic logic is not edifying for this question - or any other matter.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Which Men Do Not Belong in This Picture? Guilt by A...":

2 Corinthians 5:19, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them.

Just because you say this verse doesn't apply, that doesn't make it so. Reconciling=justifying.

***

GJ - That was a maladroit change of subject. I am still looking for the passage which reveals, "And God said, The entire world is justified and has My grace from now on, without the Word, without the Means of Grace, without faith."

UOJ fanatics equate the Atonement with justification. All Lutheran Church Growthers are UOJ disciples too.

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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Which Men Do Not Belong in This Picture?Guilt by A...":

Ok Dr. Jackson, How are Atonement and Justification different.

How is saying, "The entire world is atoned of all sin" and "The entire world is declared not guilty of all sin" different?

***

GJ - I am glad you asked. The UOJ disciples confuse the Atonement with justification. In the 1980s, when Robert Preus was still promoting Norwegian Pietism's UOJ (and a Church Growth faculty at The Surrendered Fort), he used that style of argumentation.

In Preus' last book, Justification and Rome, he abandoned his former position. He stated with great clarity that justification is only through faith. I have quoted that section many times.

Briefly, the reconciliation sections in Corinthians are about the universal Atonement. The Gospel message is, "Jesus died for the sins of the world." When that message, or treasure, is distributed by the Holy Spirit through the Means of Grace, people believe (a gift of the Holy Spirit through the efficacious Word) and they are declared innocent, justified by faith.

Romans 4 and 5 are instructive. Abraham is the father of faith (Romans 4), a beautiful chapter climaxing with the opening of Romans 5:

KJV Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

The double-justification language of Franz Pieper was being used in Knapp's Pietistic dogmatics book, in English, long before the Loehe missionaries invited the Missouri guys to join their group. Triumphalism triumphed and the real founders of Missouri were deleted from its official history. Here is one example.

Learn the Handshakes for Mormon Heaven

Banned in Utah - The Mormon Cartoon

Mizzurah Accent: Church and Chicanery

Diversity! Yeah! Everything but the liturgy and real hymns!

Campus conference highlights worship diversity
By Joe Isenhower Jr.

A first-time three-day conference in mid-February for worship leaders from the Synod's colleges, universities, and seminaries to "openly discuss divergent worship practices" on their campuses was "a practical unveiling about the extreme diversity in music repertoire, artistic expression, and liturgical heritage that shape the worshiping communities within the LCMS [resulting in] a fervent appreciation for the level of excellence in worship and pastoral care for our students in each of these institutions."

Rev. David A. Johnson, executive director of the Synod's Commission on Worship, gave Reporter that assessment of the Feb. 15-17 conference at Concordia University, Irvine, Calif. The conference title was "Word and Sacrament Ministry in This and the Next Generation: Worship Leaders' Conference Exploring Worship Diversity in a Campus Culture."

The agenda included several major presentations on worship-related topics, followed by a "table talk" for each topic; 30-minute "worship portraits," with representatives of the schools highlighting worship activity on their campuses; and three of Concordia, Irvine's, chapel services and its Sunday-night Communion service.

The Commission on Worship also participated in the conference, along with representatives from several other Synod-related entities.

Major presentations addressed "Freedom in Christ," "Practicing Those Middle Things [adiaphora]," "The Emerging Church Model," "Understanding the Millennial Generation," "Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi (what we pray is what we believe)," "Worship - Mission - Context," and "The World of Technology. [GJ - Tweeting the Gospel?]

Johnson said that both during the conference and later at a meeting of the Commission on Worship on the Irvine campus, commission members "expressed a unified exuberance for the level of honesty and integrity among worship-conference participants."

"This conference has ignited in us a desire to further the conversations among the seminaries, colleges, universities, and churches," Johnson said.

The commission is "seeking to understand and intentionally support the contextual (worship) practices" of each community, conveyed in pastoral and musical care," Johnson said.

"It is clearly not the intention to diminish our Lutheran heritage," he explained, "but to allow for the expansion of worship repertoire that faithfully undergirds the proclamation of Word and Sacrament ministry."

Johnson said that, toward that goal, the commission "will be considering processes to develop liturgies for contemporary instrumental ensembles, and new songs that sing about Baptism and the Lord's Supper."

"From this event, we hope others will intentionally engage in conversation, seeking to understand and not divide," Johnson said.

He added that the LCMS Commission on Worship is currently working on a "paradigm" for a composers conference -- tentatively set for 2010 -- "to engage young artists from the Millennial Generation to craft and record Lutheran song that is filled with language about Christ."

The campus worship leaders conference at Irvine was made possible through funding from a Thrivent Financial for Lutherans Foundation grant.

Sharing ideas, resources

In the application for that grant, Johnson pointed out that an LCMS Commission on Worship member visited each Concordia college and university in the 2004-07 triennium, leading to the decision to hold the conference, based on "a significant finding [of] ... felt need on the part of campus worship leaders to be able to share ideas and resources with one another as part of a shared event, as well as an opportunity to support one another in the work of ministering to the diverse student bodies of our Concordias. The need for interfacing with worship staff at the seminaries also was expressed."

At its conclusion, the 30-some conference attendees gave the conference high marks in a written survey. Several also expressed to Reporter their appreciation for the event.

"This was really the best chance I've had to hear and consider the big variety of situations we have at our Concordias as we plan and lead worship," Rev. Steven Smith, campus pastor and assistant professor of theology at Concordia University Wisconsin, Mequon, wrote via e-mail.

Dr. Kent Burreson, acting dean of chapel and associate professor of systematic theology at Concordia Seminary, St. Louis, stated that the conference "provided an unparalleled opportunity to intersect worship life and formation on the LCMS university campuses with worship life and formation on the seminary campus. The result: increased understanding and appreciation for the rich and diverse worship that pulses on the campuses of higher education in our church body."

For Dr. Jean Boehler, a director of parish music and an adjunct professor at Concordia College, Bronxville, N.Y., who also is on the faculty of Concordia Conservatory, the conference "enabled us to look to the future as we discussed the needs of the millennial generation and how we might minister to them in our unique settings."

"It was a joy to mix with other college chaplains and worship leaders, and of course, to hear their points of view and for them to hear ours," said Dr. McNair Ramsey, interim president of Concordia College, Selma, Ala. Ramsey presented the school's worship portrait with Rev. Steven Washington, who assists with chaplaincy duties at the college and is its athletic director. Washington is pastor of Trinity Lutheran Church in Selma.

The Selma college -- with a predominantly African-American student body, faculty, and staff -- is in the process of seeking a full-time campus chaplain.

Campus diversity

In a recap by phone of their "worship portrait," Ramsey said that worship on the Selma campus is diverse in style -- using different campus choirs and speakers, including area Lutheran pastors and members of the college's board of regents -- to appeal to a diverse student body."

"They come from all over the United States," Ramsey said of the school's students. In addition, he said, there are a significant number of international students, and about three-fourths of the student body is not Lutheran.

"In chapel, we get to share what we believe as we touch on what we have as Lutherans -- a clear understanding of sin and grace; that we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ," Ramsey said.

Jon Jordening, director of Contemporary Worship Arts at Concordia University, Irvine, explained via e-mail that for a number of years, chapel worship at Concordia, Irvine, led to "a sense of frustration on the part of worshipers not knowing the worship format for each day. People would come with a certain set of expectations for worship, only to find out something different had been planned on that day."

Jordening added that chapel worship also "had not been reaching a large part of our campus community. We had become a very diverse campus," he said -- with students from many Christian denominations, and with a climbing percentage of unchurched students.

"The impression by a large part of our students and staff ... was that chapel wasn't for them," he said.

These factors led to adjusting the approach to campus worship some three years ago.

"We decided to take a broad perspective [with] ... spiritual care in a corporate setting, and felt an obligation to offer a variety of Christian resources for the diverse populations on campus. In other words, to be faithful to our ministry of the Gospel in our diverse setting, we felt compelled to provide a diversity of corporate student settings.

"While the core of our chapel experiences would remain 'worship' in the 'narrow sense' (Divine Service), some of our other corporate gatherings might focus on a broader aspect such as teaching, outreach, or devotion -- worship in 'wider sense' as our diverse population might view it."

He said that the changes have led to greater participation in new "wide sense" weekly worship settings, while the "narrow sense" chapel worship settings remain very stable.

The photo that accompanies this story -- of Dr. David Mennicke shaking jingle bells to accompany conference participants' singing -- illustrates "mixing musical styles during Epiphany-season chapel services at Concordia University, St. Paul, Minn., [providing] a purposely eclectic mix of musical styles to show the diversity of the Body of Christ," according to Mennicke.

Chairman of the Music Department and cantor for the chapel at St. Paul, Mennicke explained that his accompaniment was for the singing of "'Helleluyan' -- a Muskeego (Creek) Indian melody that we have used for an Alleluia verse in Eucharist" services.

Johnson said this first-time campus worship-leaders conference was "clear evidence that LCMS colleges and universities are united within their sphere of influence to develop opportunities and certification programs that will shore up and train musicians with a variety of diverse and contextual skill sets and experiences."

Posted March 26, 2009

Big Love - From the Latter Day Saints

"Do your Temple Garmets itch too?"

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS and Mormonism":

I feel that you people seriously need to get a life....mormonism is very good. i feel that you people need to grow up and stick to your faith, and not put down others. GROW UP!!!

Busta Says: "Fellowship Is For Suckahs"

When Busta Gut's mom mentioned going to Concordia College, the subject was changed faster than Busta's didies.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "I Give Up: WELS Pastors Write Better Satire Than I...":

"We have a rockin' music team that leads us in worship every week with familiar Christian rock songs right off the radio. Our music volunteers are all talented musicians who have gone through an audition process to keep the quality of our worship experience one that will keep you wanting to come back."

I personally listened to auditions at a WELS congregation, (not this one) where the person that was chosen to be the "lead singer" in the praise band revealed that she was LCMS! I spoke up and said that this would disqualify her because it was a fellowship issue, especially when she did still consider herself aligned with "her church" - an LCMS congregation. The pastor over-rode my thinking and vote because she was good and had definte (sic) charisma. She was given the gig despite her very clear testimony that "her church" was not the one where she was now going to be leading worship. I no longer see any justification for the "praise band" thing and have stepped away from the "Church Nouveau."

I now feel as though I have to be very cautious and careful at which WELS congregation I align myself. A sad commentary on what used to be a very homogenous lot. But Christ himself did talk of the narrow and wide path didn't he? Choose wisely bretheren (sic).

***

GJ - This is not new to WELS. The Kuske-Stolzenburg-Zehms Lutheran Parish Resources ("the first WELS CG agency")sponsored Soter, an ecumenical rock group, for an Ohio youth gather in Jenera. The same group performed badly at the national WELS youth rally in Columbus, 1989, where Kuske was clearly in charge. One Soter member was Greek Orthodox because The Donor was Greek Orthodox (and many other denominations, not to mention c-notes). Given the make-up of the WELS clergy and pseudo-clergy, Satyr would have been a better name.

Soter was ecumenical and pretty bad. I really cannot define a bad rock group since they range from mediocre to horrible. I shocked a college class by saying it takes no talent to be a rock performer. I struck my imaginary guitar, "Twang!" and screamed. They enjoyed my brief rock career and laughed. However, many were scandalized at my claim. They eventually agreed that the members of the Boston Orchestra could all be rockers if they wanted to, but almost no rockers could be seated in the Boston Orchestra.

Where are they now?

Richard Stadler was the main speaker at the communion service. Jon Balge thanked me for not puking on him during the sermon, which was an extended children's talk done in a lispy voice. Stadler left WELS with his congregation.

Mark Freier was another speaker. After visiting destruction on a number of congregations, Mark served CrossRoads in S. Lyons, Michigan, which is now Evangelical Covenant. Mark will perform your wedding whether you are Hindu or atheist. He is also a life-coach.

Mark Schroeder (POP-Lutheran, married to Johne's daughter: Johne hunts in Africa with Patterson) was kicked out of WELS, and his congregation left with him.

Wayne Mueller spoke, too. This was a proto-Church and Change rally.

Floyd Luther Stolzenburg, Roger Zehms, and Paul Kuske were in charge of the rally. Kuske and Schumann endorsed Stolzenburg for a job at Emmanuel, Columbus, an independent Lutheran-Masonic congregation. Floyd promised to commune Masons in a letter he wrote to his prospective employer. Kuske wrote a letter of recommendation for Floyd and denied having anything to do with Floyd's new job.

The Michigan District voted Kuske out of office, an event as rare as a Book of Concord study-group at The Love Shack...or The Saussage Factory.

PS - Church Growth Enthusiasts are bolded in red.