Conversation with a Layman

Mark 4:1 - Hearken; Behold, there went out a sower to sow.

I had a long conversation with a Lutheran layman. Here are some points:

1. I think there is hope for the Wisconsin Synod.
   
2. Interested laity will need to show up for the convention, because the Church Shrinkers will be there in force, trying to regain control.
   
3. The Holy Mother WELS syndrome has been a major problem but the financial meltdown may sweep away a lot of bad attitudes.
   
4. I sense widespread support for heading the synod in the right direction.

Twenty years ago, when I began eviscerating the Church Growth Movement, most of the interested people were retired women, who were baffled about the apathy of fellow members and spineless pastors. Now younger men from all over are studying Lutheran doctrine and discussing the issues.

Many people are the source of information on Ichabod. Before this, Church Growth buddies could control the information and do damage control. Now everyone is free to check out the facts through the links provided.

WLC graduates remember Archbishop Weakland, Martin Marty, and the anti-Lutheran teaching of Paul Kelm (required course for graduation).

PS - I fixed the Tendrils paper so it is easier to read.

WELS Keynote Speaker Admits His Homosexuality

Archbishop Weakland was the widely advertized keynote speaker at a series of lectures at Wisconsin Lutheran College (WELS only when raising funds). Several priests also spoke in that series. WELS went into cover-up mode and tried to say it was a "private luncheon" that Weakland addressed. Needless to say, someone worked hard to coordinate this series. Don't worry - WLC is rolling in dough and starting new graduate programs. [GJ - An anonymous source said WLC is short and cutting staff. See comment below.]

Former Catholic head of Milwaukee admits he's gay

Archbishop Rembert Weakland, at the Cathedral of … .By RACHEL ZOLL, AP Religion Writer Rachel Zoll, Ap Religion Writer – 1 hr 2 mins ago

NEW YORK – A Roman Catholic archbishop who resigned in 2002 over a sex and financial scandal involving a man describes his struggles with being gay in an upcoming memoir about his decades serving the church.

Archbishop Rembert Weakland, former head of the Milwaukee archdiocese, said in an interview Monday that he wrote about his sexual orientation because he wanted to be candid about "how this came to life in my own self, how I suppressed it, how it resurrected again."

Called "A Pilgrim in a Pilgrim Church: Memoirs of a Catholic Archbishop," the book is set to be released in June.

"I was very careful and concerned that the book not become a Jerry Springer, to satisfy people's prurient curiosity or anything of this sort," Weakland told The Associated Press. "At the same time, I tried to be as honest as I can."

Weakland stepped down soon after Paul Marcoux, a former Marquette University theology student, revealed in May 2002 that he was paid $450,000 to settle a sexual assault claim he made against the archbishop more than two decades earlier. The money came from the archdiocese.

Marcoux went public at the height of anger over the clergy sex abuse crisis, when Catholics and others were demanding that dioceses reveal the extent of molestation by clergy and how much had been confidentially spent to settle claims.

Weakland denied ever assaulting anyone. He apologized for concealing the payment. The Vatican says that men with "deep-seated" attraction to other men should not be ordained.

In an August 1980 letter that was obtained by the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, Weakland said he was in emotional turmoil over Marcoux and that he had "come back to the importance of celibacy in my life." He signed the letter, "I love you."

The revelations rocked the Milwaukee archdiocese, which Weakland had led since 1977. He was a hero for liberal Catholics nationwide because of his work on social justice and other issues,

The archbishop, now 82, said he seriously considered the potential pain for the archdiocese of renewing attention to the scandal and thought about waiting "until I was dead" to have it published. But he decided to move ahead with the project.

"What I felt was that people who loved me as bishop here, when they read the book will continue to love me. The people who found it difficult, I hope will be helped a little bit by the book," he said.

In a sign of the deep emotions still surrounding Weakland and his departure, the Archdiocese of Milwaukee has released a public statement alerting local Catholics to the upcoming book.

"Some people will be angry about the book, others will support it," the archdiocese said.

Weakland also writes about his failures to stop sexually abusive priests. In a videotaped deposition released last November, Weakland admitted returning guilty priests to active ministry without alerting parishioners or police.

"Any deposition is just a part of a whole picture and that picture has not been painted yet. And anybody can take out of that any sentence they want," Weakland said in the interview.

"I try to deal with this, I hope in an honest way, admitting my weaknesses in not being able to see this earlier, but at the same time doing what I could confront it."

Advocates for abuse victims said that Weakland's cover-up of his own sexual activity was part of a pattern of secrecy that included concealing the criminal behavior of child molesters.

Weakland, a Benedictine monk, served in Rome as leader of the International Benedictine Confederation and also worked on a liturgy commission for the Second Vatican Council, which made reforms in the 1960s meant to modernize the church.

Weakland said he wrote in the memoir that he was unprepared for "how lonely it is" to be a bishop and how difficult it can be to get the "feedback and support you need."

U.S. Catholics have long debated whether the priesthood had become a predominantly gay vocation. Estimates vary from 25 percent to 50 percent, according to a review of research on the issue by the Rev. Donald Cozzens, author of "The Changing Face of the Priesthood."

Weakland said Christians needed to speak more openly about gays in the priesthood without the "hysteria" that often characterizes the debate.

The archbishop has been living in a retirement community near the Milwaukee archdiocese and plans to move to St. Mary's Abbey in Morristown, N.J., this summer. He said he was not bitter about how the scandal had eclipsed his decades of work in the church.

"I refused to let myself become a victim and refused to let myself become angry," he said. "I want to take responsibility but I want to move on."

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS Keynote Speaker Admits His Homosexuality":

Hmmm, who didn't see that coming?

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "WELS Keynote Speaker Admits His Homosexuality":

"WLC is rolling in dough and starting new graduate programs."

This statement is, unfortunately, inaccurate. In fact, the opposite is true.

WLC's recent staffing cuts, including eliminating the Political Science major show that the institution is in financial trouble.

The addition of new graduate programs do not show an excess of money as no new staff will be hired. These programs are designed to be money makers and follow the trends in higher education: MBA, undergraduate nursing, graduate education; these are all popular degrees that may bring in much needed tuition $'s.

Beware of False Profits

Penguins have been promoted into the teaching office of the church at Victory of the Lamb Movie Theatre. Watch the precious Victory of the Penguins. Come for the cute animal pix, stay for the popcorn. Check out the Bible Babes.

From Bailing Water:

Tim Niedfeldt said...
As a reference example for Anon 11:38am. Victory received $20K from WELS BHM...$15K the 1st year and $5k the 2nd. That accounts for all our WELS money as a level two mission. Most "R&R" churches are level 1's or level 2's only... meaning minimal or NO synod money.

These churches exist mostly as a daughter effort of a larger mother congregation and have a very short time to become self-sufficient. We are currently at 85% self-supporting and should be 100% by January 1st. (3 years time to achieve)

---

Anonymous said...
Back to the original question: will the rock and roll churches have their grants cut...

There are no "rock and roll churches" receiving grants directly from WELS. They tend to be supported from organizations that agree with their methods. That probably won't change much. For all the talk on this blog about WELS' "rock and roll" ways, it is actually a very traditional church body.

***

GJ - The financial situation is more complicated than some claim. Outside funds come from:

1. Direct synod subsidy.
   
2. Various mission enrichment grants. Doebler and Patterson have their hands out for those at the moment.
   
3. Synod organization grants, such as Kingdom Workers. Church and Change has a plant on the board.
   
4. Foundations, such as Siebert, Antioch, and Schwan.
   
5. Thrivent ecumenical programs at the local, district, and national levels.

Grantsmanship comes from having a chokehold on all the sources of loot, such as planting Ski on one of the Siebert Foundation oversight committees. (He is in charge of bringing the popcorn.)

Large congregations are the source of most synod offerings. All the large congregations are cutting costs where they can, two different ways. They usually shed one or more full-time positions. They also cut back on giving to the synod. WELS is shedding all kinds of pastoral positions at the same time.

Wild hair mission projects may not feel so secure and smug in the future. If the money situation looks bad now, wait a year. In 2010, this year will look like one of the fat years.

---

Discipline for Drive 09? - Only at the Top of the Food Chain

Guardian of the Emerald City Gates: Well, that's more like it! Now, state your business!
Dorothy: We want to see the Wizard!
Guardian of the Emerald City Gates: [gasps] The Wizard? But nobody can see the Great Oz! Nobody's ever seen the Great Oz! Even I've never seen him!
Dorothy: Well, then how do you know there is one?

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Lo, How Honest the Church and Change Pastors Are":

Hmmm...interesting that you feel one should react differently depending on the degree of doctrinal difference we may have with various groups. I suppose that could be a thread all it's (sic) own.

Why do you feel that going to the Drive conference has been a covert operation? Anybody in-the-know knows.

I think the issue that you are having is that you, and others, feel that what the pastors have done is wrong and you want them to face discipline. My suggestion is that you let WELS chain of command work its course. If you don't like the results then you go further up the food chain. At some point you have to accept what comes down whether you like it or not.

***

GJ - This comment is so typically WELS that a pastor, likely a Love Shack denizen, probably wrote it. Every point is counter-intuitive. The people who will discipline the Drive 09 Eight have:

1. Studied at Fooler Seminary, Willow Crick, Trinity Deerfield, or all three.
   
2. Promoted one Church Shrinker after another to teach at The Sausage Factory.
   
3. Watched with closed eyes while Kelm, Olson, Huebner, Valleskey, Bivens, Roth, Radloff, Hagedorn, and many others attacked the Biblical doctrine of the efficacy of the Word.
   
4. Let Kelm preside as the Waldo Werming Professor of Church Growth, in one botched position after another.
   
5. Hailed We Believe, Therefore We Speak as a great work of theology, required reading for everyone with an IQ smaller than his belt size.
   
6. Did nothing about Drive 08.

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "More WELS By the Numbers":

Chop Patterson, Jeske, Galeske, Kelm, SKI, and all the apostates. It's time to get back to the just the pure Word of God, taught in truth and purity.

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Discipline for Drive 09? - Only at the Top of the ...":

The commenter says, "Anyone in the know, knows."

That's half the problem. Those that are "in-the-know" really ought to know better and put their foot down.

The other half is that the faithful in those afflicted congregations did not know what their pastor was up to. Why else would they fail to openly identify and celebrate it in the bulletin?

"Pastor Schmuckenschwaermer will be gone this week to a Babtist conference to learn how church should really be done. The Board of Stewardship congratulates Pastor Schmuckenschwaermer on the wise use of his time and our congregational gifts.

"The Board of Elders, though, regretfully apologizes for the confusion that has resulted for insisting all these years that we are called to the one true faith by the Holy Spirit, instead of a more powerpoint- and praise band- friendly Decision Theology."

+Diet O. Worms

---

JR has left a new comment on your post "Lo, How Honest the Church and Change Pastors Are":

I don't feel that one should react differently based on the degree of doctrinal difference. I merely was comparing the perceived severity of the offense in a more concrete example. I don't see degrees of difference-- either you are in doctrinal agreement or you are not.

If "anybody in the know" knows about going to the Drive conference, then I'd like a report on it posted somewhere online. If the information provided is so wonderful and proven at getting the unchurched to hear the Word, then it would be extremely selfish of those who attended not to share it with as many other pastors as possible that could not attend.

I want this entire process to be above board. I would like those who attended the conference to stand up and state their case as to why they did so and to have the chance to defend themselves from the allegations of engaging in inappropriate fellowship.

I pray that our pastors and WELS leaders would shine a bright light on this issue and resolve it in a way that is both biblically-based and loving to all involved. If this is done, I am fine with accepting the outcome, whatever it may be. I hope that everyone else would do the same.

The divisions caused by not addressing these things causes all sorts of problems in our synod and is destroying its unity from within.

To see this happen to a church body that I love dearly is painful to me.

Do We Need One More Babtist Denomination?

Learn dicipleship (sic) from Stetzer, English tutor for Church and Change.
Ed Stetzer 1st tweet from Tweetie on my IPhone. If getting my iMac Pro was being born again, having the IPhone is total sanctification!

From Wikipedia:

A
Alliance of Baptists
American Baptist Association
American Baptist Churches USA
Association of Independent Baptist Churches of Illinois
Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America
Association of Regular Baptist Churches
B
Baptist Bible Fellowship International
Baptist Convention of Western Cuba
Baptist General Association of Virginia
Baptist General Conference
Baptist General Convention of Texas
Baptist Missionary Association of America
Black Primitive Baptists
C
Canadian Convention of Southern Baptists
Central Baptist Association
Central Canada Baptist Conference
Christian Baptist Church of God
Church of Christ, Instrumental
Conservative Baptist Association of the Southeast
Continental Baptist Churches
Convention of Atlantic Baptist Churches
Cooperative Baptist Fellowship
Covenanted Baptist Church of Canada
E
Baptist Convention of Eastern Cuba
Evangelical Free Baptist Church
F
Fellowship of Evangelical Baptist Churches in Canada
Free Will Baptist
Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship
Fundamental Baptist Fellowship Association
Fundamental Baptist Fellowship International
G
General Association of Baptists
General Association of General Baptists
General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc.
General Six-Principle Baptists
H
Hard-shell Baptists
I
Independent Baptist
Independent Baptist Church of America
Independent Baptist Fellowship International
Independent Baptist Fellowship of North America
Institutional Missionary Baptist Conference of America
L
Landmark Missionary Baptist Association of Quebec
Liberty Baptist Fellowship
M
Missionary Baptists
N
National Association of Free Will Baptists
National Baptist Convention of America, Inc.
National Baptist Convention of Mexico
National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc.
National Baptist Evangelical Life and Soul Saving Assembly of the U.S.A.
National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A.
National Union of Baptist Churches
N cont.
New England Evangelical Baptist Fellowship
New Testament Association of Independent Baptist Churches
North American Baptist Conference
O
Old Regular Baptist
Old Time Missionary Baptist
Original Free Will Baptist Convention
P
Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church
Primitive Baptist
Primitive Baptist Conference of New Brunswick, Maine and Nova Scotia
Primitive Baptist Universalist
Progressive National Baptist Convention
S
Separate Baptists
Separate Baptists in Christ
Southwide Baptist Fellowship
Sovereign Grace Baptists
Sovereign Grace Fellowship of Canada
T
Template:US baptist denominations
Triennial Convention
Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists
U
Ukrainian Evangelical Baptist Convention of Canada
Union Baptists
United American Free Will Baptist Church
United American Free Will Baptist Conference
W
Wisconsin Fellowship of Babtist Churches [GJ - This one shows some promise for a merger with WELS. However, John Parlow and Paul Kelm may favor the Willow Creek Association, where they are on the roster.]

St. John LCMS in Ellisville is also a member of the Willow Creek Association. McCain-Barry did nothing about Ellisville, preparing Missouri for the glorious advent of Kieschnick.

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Do We Need One More Babtist Denomination?":

He even misspelt "discipleship" on the graphic!

As hard as they try to purposefully twist up the great commission in Matthew 28, you'd think he of all people would spell it right on his own promotional materials.

It's like Homer Simpson misspelling "doughnut."
Or a socialist misspelling "tax increase."
Or a C&Cer misspelling "grants and endowments."
Or Anonymouse misspelling "you're not loving!"

+Diet O. Worms

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Church and Change Day at Martin Luther College":

Don't you feel this is misleading to copy the MLC Evangelism Day speakers list, label it as Church and Change Day at MLC, and post it with this sign? "Get rid of all bitterness" Eph 4:31

***

GJ - You are right. I should have labeled it - Crypto-Babtist Day.

What happened to "mark and avoid," or "beware of false prophets," and false doctrine being like gangrene or cancer?

Kissing A. Cutie, Priest

Priest in trouble over woman defends celibacy
May. 11, 2009 06:49 AM
Associated Press.

MIAMI - A popular Miami priest and media personality said Monday he is thinking about leaving the Roman Catholic Church for a woman he loves after a magazine ran pictures of the couple kissing and hugging.

Rev. Alberto Cutie told the CBS "Early Show" on Monday he supports the church's stand that priests should be celibate and said he does not want to become the "anti-celibacy priest."

"I think it's a debate that's going on in our society, and now I've become kind of a poster boy for it. But I don't want to be that. I believe that celibacy is good, and that it's a good commitment to God," Cutie said.
Cutie was removed last week as head of the Miami archdiocese's international radio network and as head of his parish after the Spanish-language magazine TVnotas ran photos of Cutie embracing a woman at a bar and at a beach.

Cutie headed the archdiocese's Radio Paz and Radio Peace broadcasts, heard throughout the Americas and in Spain, and earned the nickname "Father Oprah" for his relationship advice.

The Cuban-American priest was born in Puerto Rico and previously hosted shows on Telemundo. He is also a syndicated Spanish-language columnist and author of the book "Real Life, Real Love: 7 Paths to a Strong, Lasting Relationship."

Cutie told CBS he has been romantically involved with the woman in the photos for about two years after being friends for much longer. He said he is still deciding whether to leave the clergy and get married.

"I'm now in the process of thinking about all those things, of making decisions," Cutie said. "And my bishop has given me the time to think about it. This is a difficult time. It's a time of transition, it's a time of thinking about the future."

"I believe that I've fallen in love and I believe that I've struggled with that, between my love for God, and my love for the Church and my love for service," Cutie said.

He appeared on CBS wearing a suit jacket and white shirt, not his priest collar.

Last week, more than one hundred people gathered outside St. Francis de Sales parish in Miami Beach, waving posters and chanting their forgiveness for Cutie.

"I think we all have ideals and we have ways of living," Cutie said on CBS. "We want to do things right, but sometimes we fall short. And I fell short."

WELS Church and Change Follower Violates the Eighth - No Surprise

Anonymouse has left a new comment on your post "More WELS By the Numbers":

Who appointed GJ to be the conscience of the WELS? He hasn't been a member of the synod for over a decade. He publishes his site simply because he has an axe to grind.

***

GJ - Who required Mouse to read this blog daily? Who held him at gunpoint and made him comment daily? Perhaps VP Don Patterson needs a minion to do his work for him. Kudu Don Patterson's only communication was limited to name-calling (You are a fool and a liar) and denying his safari guy was still a congregational president.

Who taught Mouse mind-reading? I know the Church and Chicaneries specialize in long-distance diagnosis of everyone who is onto them. Corky wrote his essay (posted on the left) because "he was brain-damaged." The former seminary president was against amalgamation because "he was senile." And so forth. Who is the first to say, "That's not loving"? Answer - the Church and Chicaneries.

If they loved their brother pastors as much as they love money, the world would take notice instead of yawning at the way they ape the Babtists.

I have been writing about apostasy for several decades. Otten published Out of the Depths of ELCA, which embarrassed all the WELS leaders caught in bed with ELCA. A little later, the WELS publishing house chose to print Liberalism Its Cause and Cure. Northwestern Publishing House also distributed Catholic, Lutheran, Protestant and heavily promoted it. NPH is selling the new version of CLP, too.

I am trying to think of someone in Church and Change who has published a good, worthwhile theology book. No, Valleskey's We Believe is not a serious book. It is a hodge-podge of Justification without Faith and Church Growth slobbering. A better name for the UOJ-CGM book would be: We Don't Believe, So We Copy Fuller Seminary.

And how many Church and Chicaneries have a real doctorate in theology? Paul Kelm's DMin from Our Lady of Sorrows in St. Louis does not qualify. Nor does Larry Olson's drive-by DMin from Fooler Seminary, via Trinity Deerfield. Steve Witte's DMin from Gordon-Conwell? Have you read that classic, Mouse? Witte's title is: "Hope and a Future - The Death of Confessional Lutheranism." That is like reading a book about crime - published from Death Row.

The Chicaneries cannot stand and fight for their Babtists rights when dealing with real academic preparation. They have their typical sissy-boy comments about the Book of Concord, and dispense the word "adiaphora" to prove they do not grasp the Formula of Concord at all, since adiaphora are anything but that during a time of confession. Oh, I forgot, Witte and Company killed it - with glee.

---

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "More WELS By the Numbers":

That raises a good question. Does WELS have a conscience given it behavior?

---

Anonymous has left a clueless new comment on your post "Lo, How Honest the Church and Change Pastors Are":

JR,

Like I said in an earlier post you will not change my opinion and I will not change yours. I know the pastors you guys are railing on and you don't. You don't want to know them. All you want to do is rant and follow your leader Jackson. I'm glad to see that you realize this site is no longer needed and that Jackson can shut it down. You wouldn't know compelling evidence if it bit you. Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Lo, How Honest the Church and Change Pastors Are":