Wednesday, February 10, 2010

From the Real Brett Meyer



The Real Martin Chemnitz


brett-meyer (http://brett-meyer.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Basic Tenets of UOJ Denied":

For those in the Lutheran churches who are orthodox Lutherans by holding a quia subscription to the Confessions here is a continuation of the quote above which declares the righteousness of faith and rejects the false gospel of UOJ and it's perversion of the Holy Spirit's faith given to and strengthened in men through the Means of Grace:

10] These treasures are offered us by the Holy Ghost in the promise of the holy Gospel; and faith alone is the only means by which we lay hold upon, accept, and apply, and appropriate them to ourselves. 11] This faith is a gift of God, by which we truly learn to know Christ, our Redeemer, in the Word of the Gospel, and trust in Him, that for the sake of His obedience alone we have the forgiveness of sins by grace, are regarded as godly and righteous by God the father, and are eternally saved. 12] Therefore it is considered and understood to be the same thing when Paul says that we are justified by faith, Rom. 3, 28, or that faith is counted to us for righteousness, Rom. 4, 5, and when he says that we are made righteous by the obedience of One, Rom. 5, 19, or that by the righteousness of One justification of faith came to all men, Rom. 5, 18. 13] For faith justifies, not for this cause and reason that it is so good a work and so fair a virtue, but because it lays hold of and accepts the merit of Christ in the promise of the holy Gospel; for this must be applied and appropriated to us by faith, if we are to be justified thereby. 14] Therefore the righteousness which is imputed to faith or to the believer out of pure grace is the obedience, suffering, and resurrection of Christ, since He has made satisfaction for us to the Law, and paid for [expiated] our sins. 15]

For since Christ is not man alone, but God and man in one undivided person, He was as little subject to the Law, because He is the Lord of the Law, as He had to suffer and die as far as His person is concerned. For this reason, then, His obedience, not only in suffering and dying, but also in this, that He in our stead was voluntarily made under the Law, and fulfilled it by this obedience, is imputed to us for righteousness, so that, on account of this complete obedience, which He rendered His heavenly Father for us, by doing and suffering, in living and dying, God forgives our sins, regards us as godly and righteous, and eternally saves us. 16] This righteousness is offered us by the Holy Ghost through the Gospel and in the Sacraments, and is applied, appropriated, and received through faith, whence believers have reconciliation with God, forgiveness of sins, the grace of God sonship, and heirship of eternal life.

17] Accordingly, the word justify here means to declare righteous and free from sins, and to absolve one from eternal punishment for the sake of Christ's righteousness, which is imputed by God to faith, Phil. 3, 9. For this use and understanding of this word is common in the Holy Scriptures of the Old and the New Testament. Prov. 17, 15: He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord. Is. 5, 23: Woe unto them which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! Rom. 8, 33: Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth, that is, absolves from sins and acquits.
http://www.bookofconcord.org/sd-righteousness.php

13 comments:

bruce-church said...

Rev. Paul Kelm called to WLC to minister to extroverts. Introverts can get lost:

http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=9082
excerpt: The answer, obviously, is that it depends upon what kind of church we are talking about. In liturgical churches I expect introverts and extroverts fare about the same. But in non-liturgical churches they may fare differently.

L P said...

Pr GJ,

Thanks to Brett and thank you for featuring this wonderful quote from the BoC.

LPC

brett-meyer said...

WELS Siegbert W. Becker
"Faith does nothing more than accept the forgiveness proclaimed in the Gospel. It is not a condition we must fulfill before we can be forgiven. It is not a cause of forgiveness on account of which God forgives us. The forgiveness comes first. Faith is merely the response to the message. God says to us, “Your sins are forgiven.” This is objective justification, and God’s message to us is true whether we believe it or not. Faith makes God’s message its own and says, “My sins are forgiven.” This is subjective justification. The whole doctrine is just as simple as that." Page 12, The Place of Faith
http://www.wlsessays.net/files/BeckerJustification.PDF

WELS AZ/CA DP Pastor Jon Buchholz
"Faith doesn’t bring anything into existence that doesn’t already exist. Faith doesn’t cause something to happen. Faith simply grasps— trusts—something that already is in place." Page 14
http://archive.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?2617&collectionID=1161&contentID=76707&shortcutID=26388

WELS Our Great Heritage states, "And yet many Lutherans still labor under the delusion that God does not forgive us unless we believe. Instead of seeing faith as nothing more than the spiritual hand with which we make the forgiveness of God our own, they see it as a reason why God forgives us. They believe that Christ has indeed provided forgiveness for all men, that God is willing to forgive them, but before he really forgives he first of all demands that we should be sorry for our sins and that we should have faith. Just have faith they say, and then God will forgive you. All the right words are there. The only thing wrong is that the words are in the wrong order. God does not forgive us IF we have faith. He has forgiven us long ago when he raised his Son from the dead." (p. 59)"

WELS MLC President Mark Zarling, "Faith does nothing more than receive the forgiveness which is offered in the Gospel. It is not a condition we fulfill nor is it a cause of forgiveness. We are already forgiven. God's message of justification in Christ is there whether we believe it or not. Faith then receives the blessings." And, "Faith that accepts the good news of universal justification is the work of God the Holy Ghost." Page 7
http://www.wlsessays.net/files/ZarlingJustification.pdf

Question to those who boldly confess the doctrine of Universal Objective Justification (UOJ). Your doctrine teaches in Objective Justification (OJ) that by the Atonement of Christ the whole world, including every unbeliever, has been declared forgiven of all sin, justified, declared righteous by God's divine verdict and God is at peace with them. OJ also teaches that justification is not a change in man but a change in the relationship between God and man. Also in UOJ's teaching concerning Subjective Justification (SJ) faith is simply and empty hand accepting what was already declared to be true. That faith doesn't do anything or bring about anything, it only receives. When does the conversion of man take place and he becomes as a little child, Matt 18:2-3 (clearly a change in man)?

Cont...

brett-meyer said...

Cont...

When is a man born of water and the Spirit as Christ declares in John 3:3-6? When does a man cease to be carnally minded in the old man and become spiritually minded in the new man in Christ, Col. 3:9-10, Romans 8:6 and Eph. 4:22-24(clearly changes wrought by God in man through faith worked by the Means of Grace)? How can man be a new creature in Christ through the changes noted above if in UOJ there is no change in man, if faith doesn't affect a change in man, 2 Cor. 5:17?

Matthew 18:2-3, "And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

John 3:3-6, "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

Colossians 3:9-10, "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:"

Romans 8:6, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."

2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Ephesians 4:22-24, "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."

Before any UOJ believer responds with saying that God's declaration that the whole unbelieving world doesn't benefit from His divine verdict of their sins forgiven, declared justified and righteous in Christ note that WELS has taught that it doesn't matter if they believe it or not for it to be true and effective. Here is WELS much referenced theologian in his discussion of Objective Justification concerning the WELS Kokomo statements:

The first Kokomo Statement, 1) Objectively speaking, without any reference to an individual sinner’s attitude toward Christ’s sacrifice, purely on the basis of God’s verdict, every sinner, whether he knows it or not, whether he believes it or not, has received the status of a saint.

Becker, "One really becomes a guilt-free saint only through faith, if we limit ourselves to the biblical usage of the word. However, since our holiness, as Augustine says, consists in sin’s remission rather than in life’s perfection, we could say that when God forgave the sins of the whole world he regarded all sinners as guilt-free, but if they are guilt-free we might also say that they are considered sinless in the sight of God. But a sinless person is a holy person, a saint. The fact that unbelievers do not consider themselves to be forgiven does not change the truth of God’s Word that tells us that God does not impute the sins of all men to them, or that through one man justification has come upon all men." Page 14 http://www.wlsessays.net/files/BeckerJustification.PDF

L P said...

Pr GJ,

Thanks for posting this comment from Brett.

LPC

bruce-church said...

Ever notice how the WELS seminary is so, shall we say, non-differentiated compared to the WELS itself? WELS sets itself apart from all other denominations on many points of doctrine, but then if you look at their seminary staff directory, it's hard to tell what department a professor belongs to. Are all the professors switch-hitters, switching between homiletics, systematics, exegetical and historical departments as necessary? Try, for example, finding out John Hartwig's specialty:

http://www.wls.wels.net/user/john-hartwig

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=active&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS291US303&q=%22john+hartwig%22+professor+mequon&start=20&sa=N

Norman Teigen said...

What is the point of all this OJ, UOJ stuff?

Norman Teigen
ELS layman and official spokesperson for the little Norwegian synod

bruce-church said...

You think Brett Meyer's user ID was misused. Let me tell you something. I was using the Anonymous UserID, and everyone else and his brother was pretending to be me by posting under Anonymous. :)

brett-meyer said...

Mr. Teigen, the point in defining and explaining Universal Objective Justification is to understand and expose it as a false doctrine.

My contention is that it is a false man made doctrine which teaches a new gospel opposed to Scripture. As a false gospel it is condemned by God as are all those who confess it as it's taught by the Lutheran synods. See Galations quote below.

Galations 1:6-9, "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

There are some who claim that Universal Objective Justification (UOJ) can be believed by some and Justification by Faith Alone (JBFA) can be confessed by others as long as we all agree that salvation of the individual requires faith it doesn't matter what is believed about, and the results of, Christ's Atonement. This is a unionistic and deceptive opinion. It disregards the fact that UOJ teaches another god, a god who accepts as righteous, justified and forgiven of all sin those who are alive to sin and remain carnaly minded at war with Christ. A god who declares unbelievers both justified, at peace with him and cursed and condemned for their sin. A god who has justified the entire unbelieving world outside of the Means of Grace, declaring that those he justified he will glorify but damns them to Hell for eternity for not believing that they are sinless in his sight. UOJ teaches another christ who is not a mediator between God and man through faith alone but a mediator to the whole world outside of the Means of Grace working contrition and faith. A christ who's blood has been distributed to the whole unbelieving world while they are carnaly minded and alive to sin. UOJ teaches a faith which does nothing and is nothing but an open and empty withered hand accepting what was already declared to be true. A faith which is not the faith of the Holy Spirit which makes of an unjust man a just man. It is not the Holy Spirit's faith through which, by grace, man dies to sin and is raised again, born again, to life in Christ.

1 John 5:10, "He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son."

L P said...

What Brett says is true.

Just think, if we grant UOJ for the moment, then that atheist out there God has already declared righteous at the Cross or at Jesus' Resurrection. So everyone is already declared righteous. The Bible does say that Jesus did die for that atheist but it does not say that he is automatically declared righteous simply because Jesus died for him.

This way of speaking is contrary to Scripture, for Abraham believed God and it is only then that Scripture speaks of him being reckoned as righteous.

UOJ then disconnects the Atonement with the Means of Grace.

LPC

brett-meyer said...

LPC, I agree with you. It makes Christ's statement in Luke meaningless since in UOJ God has by divine verdict acquitted the entire unbelieving world, Luke 5:31-32, "And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

The Lutheran Confessions reject UOJ's teaching that everyone is already forgiven here:
"6] Let any one of the adversaries come forth and tell us when remission of sins takes place. O good God, what darkness there is! They doubt whether it is in attrition or in contrition that remission of sins occurs. And if it occurs on account of contrition, what need is there of absolution, what does the power of the keys effect, if sins have been already remitted?…" http://www.bookofconcord.org/defense_10_repentance.php

But UOJ has opened the heretical door and let the mongol hordes rush in. One such is Paul Kelm and his Upside Down Evangelism (quotes copied from Ichabod's treasure trove of direct quotes) which begins with the UOJ gospel message and follows with the Law to make you a good Pietist:

"Upside-down evangelism follows the path of least resistance to the God of gracious acceptance."
Paul Kelm,
The Evangelism Life Line (WELS), Fall, 1985 p. 5.

"It's just easier for many people to work backwards from the subjective to the objective in their thinking. In fact, upside-down evangelism may start with gospel and work back to law, stating the solution as a prelude to the problem and clarifying both at the cross." [This is Moravian Pietism, as shown by Walther's Law and Gospel.]
Paul Kelm,
The Evangelism Life Line (WELS), Fall, 1985 p. 5.

"Upside-down evangelism doesn't begin with personal sin and guilt, but rather with the consequences of sin. Societal consequences (for which each day's newspaper provides evidence) are the 'perceived need' door to understanding the alienation of life and people from God."
Paul Kelm,
The Evangelism Life Line (WELS), Fall, 1985 p. 5.

"Upside-down evangelism may begin with different diagnostic questions. What do you want out of life? lets the other person pick the path for witness. How do you feel about where our society is heading? uncovers fears and needs without becoming too personal. What makes people happy (or unhappy) do you think? allows someone to express preceived [sic] needs in the third person."
Paul Kelm,
The Evangelism Life Line (WELS), Fall, 1985 p. 5.

"Evangelism upside-down is starting with the subjective issues of perceived reality and working back to God's objective truths of ultimate reality - sin and grace. It's offering the attendant blessings of salvation as the 'hook' to gain an audience for God's plan of salvation." [felt needs used to sell the Gospel]
Paul Kelm,
The Evangelism Life Line (WELS), Fall, 1985 p. 4.

Norman Teigen said...

I sense that the distinctions being made result in unnecessary confusion.

Norman Teigen

brett-meyer said...

What part of the distinctions confuses you Mr. Teigen?

Some very clear statements have been made recently which you have responded to by lobbing ambiguous question marks. I can't tell if you are honestly trying to make sense of the contentions or just kicking up the silt for others.

Mr. Teigen, do you believe pure doctrine is more important than unity and fellowship?