bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "What the Shrinkers Hate, Part II":
Hi Dr. Jackson, You asked for links about the shrinkers making comments against canvassing and handing out fliers in the comments section. It's been a while since I had these conversations, so they are hard to find (if they even exist anymore online). But here's a good example from Bailing Water in 2007 (below). I just said that our pastor refused to do any evangelism citing money problems, but then he refused to hand out flyers or even have the members hand out flyers because it wasn't a recommended CG method, probably because going door to door isn't "cool." Anyway, one CG guy sneered that I should have just handed out leaflets rather than bother the pastor about doing evangelism, and another said I was fixated on it. I guess that's the CG way of saying anyone who wants to do evangelism the old-fashioned way has a psychiatric problem (or is lazy or cheap or whatever smear their Old Man can think of off the cuff):
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http://bailingwater.blogspot.com/2007/11/what-now.html
excerpts:
Anonymous aaid...
Your difficulties with talking about new approaches to ministry simply does not recognize that methods can change, while the Word we proclaim remains unchanged. (For example, door to door canvassing in outreach simply doesn't work anymore in many communtities. We can reach so many more today via the Internet and other media with Law and Gospel. But to even discuss such newer methods is evidence of the infiltration of false doctrine in our midst, according to you and your blog.)
Anonymous said...
Hey Bruce--
Just think of how much precious canvassing you could have done on your own with the time you spent jerking your pastor around by the pocketbook. Just imagine what it would be like if laypeople spent their time talking about the Savior with their friends and coworkers instead of griping about how the pastor isn't doing any evangelism.
November 12, 2007 5:35 PM
bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "What the Shrinkers Hate, Part II":
cont'd from previous post:
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UP said...
Also, I am not against a church advertising or canvassing, but I don't understand why you are so focused on those.
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Anonymous said...
Actually canvassing really doesn't work. Think about it--who canvasses? Annoying salespeople and Mormons. I don't want my church being associated with either of those groups. In my experience there's only one thing that really works: members talking to their friends and coworkers and neighbors about the good news. Everything else is a far, far second. Oh, and by the way, I wouldn't be so quick to pit church growth against canvassing. Canvassing was popularized by the church growthers.
November 11, 2007 10:04 PM
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Anonymous said...
Bruce Church has no idea what he's talking about!
November 11, 2007 10:21 PM
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Anonymous said...
"Funny. That´s what the last pastor said before we got rid of him--about this very issue. Our new pastor canvases in addition to other activities, and he`s doing well."
Pastor as lackey? That's a problem with the WELS doctrine of church and ministry. If I'm in the Madison area I will definitely avoid your congregation.
November 12, 2007 6:49 AM
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Anonymous said...
As someone who has been on Travel-Canvas-Witness trips from MLC, I agree that canvassing does not work. After leaving thousands of fliers and talking to hundreds of people in a week for some mission congregation, you know how many new people showed up for worship on Sunday? None. Ever. A lot of money and time went into sending us to "help" the pastors of these missions and not one new person ever set foot in the church because of it.
At the congregation of which I'm currently a member, they do not do canvassing but are growing. Many of the Lutheran churches in the area have chosen to act like Methodists, Baptists, and Pentecostals. New converts are not stupid and see through the shallowness. Many, especially young families, have joined our congregation BECAUSE they can hear the Gospel preached and receive the Sacrament of the Altar every Sunday in a high liturgical setting.
November 12, 2007 9:21 AM
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bruce-church (https://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Shrinkers Against Working Hard":
One problem is the CG people only think of instant results, it seems. One commented on BW that he took a trip from MLC to hand out flyers on a mission trip somewhere, and on Sunday they got zero results. However, when I hand out a flyers (which I've done), I'm just trying to raise the visibility of the church in an area, knowing nothing may come of it for week, months and years. It's similar to having your cross lit on your church. It's not going to cause people to break down your church doors, but over the years it will bring some people in, though they may not even be conscious of that reason for coming there as opposed to somewhere else, or nowhere. At least they can't say I never saw your church until I looked it up in the Yellow Pages, and then plugged the address into my GPS and drove over.
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GJ - People will drive 50 miles or more for a real Lutheran church because there are so few around. The Gospel produces the fruit of the Spirit, according to God's will. The need for instant results will always cause people to seek fad solutions, just as steroids will build big muscles while making other things very small.
