WELS church lady has left a new comment on your post "Faith According to Luther - And the Bible":
Good morning Pastor GJ. Let's make Luther's Catechism say somethong that it doesn't say. I hve before me a worn and torn 1956 Doctor Martin Luther's Small Catechism(Revision authorized by the Ev. Lutheran Joint Synod Wis. a.o.s.) No place, and I mean NO PLACE, is there a mention of objection or universal justification. Seeing as how the passages were diligently translated, we would not expect to see the two terms.
Now let us move away from 1956. One of the students that I drive was kind enough to let me glance at her Small Catechism book. Keep in mind that I only had a minute to glance! This is the blue colored book published by NPH and revised by Kuske. Revisions abound! In the glossary, under justification, is also says objective justification.(You don't find that in the old brown book) Understand, I did not have time to look at the pages that discussed justification. Truth and purity need to be restored to these books. What are we supposed to teach our children?
In Christ,
from WELs church lady
***
GJ - The LCMS is the same way. The 1905 Missouri catechism has not a word about UOJ.
KJV Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
1 comments:
Here's one WELS answer to the deception in Kuske's revisions to Luther's Small Catechism.
From: "Stephan Rodmyre"
To: brett.meyer
Subject: RE: ELHS and HTLS teaching Objective Justification
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:06:03 +0000
Brett,
Romans 3:22-24: all have sinned, and all fall short, and all are justified
In His Service,
Stephan Rodmyre
--- Original message ---
From: brett.meyer@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 7:42 PM
To: Stephan Rodmyre
Cc: Pastor Humann; Pastor Seiltz; Greg Thiesfeldt
Subject: Re: ELHS and HTLS teaching Objective Justification
Mr. Rodmyre, why did you summarize and not just quote the Scripture passages verbatum? This happens to be the same approach to these passages that David Kuske used when he revised Luther's Catechism for the WELS in 1982(current Catechism used by HTLS). Page 210, section 252 On What Basis Did God Declare Guilty Sinners To Be Righteous? Kuske posts: Romans 3:23-26 (So that God could be a good judge and still declare sinners righteous, he had Christ pay the debt which sinners owed for all their sins.) He doesn't quote verbatum as with 99% of all other Scripture passages in the Catechism, he summarizes as you did. I'll post the verses here:
Romans 3
Verse 22 ...
Verse 23 ...
Verse 24 ...
Verse 25 ...
Verse 26 ...
Verse 27 ...
Verse 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Clearly verse 23 agrees with your statements, All have sinned and all fall short. But it does not say all are justified. In fact what these passages do say is the righteousness of God is by faith in Jesus to all that believe (verse 22), that Christ is our propitiation through faith in his blood (verse 25), that God is the justifier of all who believe in Jesus (verse 26), man is justified by faith and not by works (verse 28). Do you agree with the Confessions when they state in the Apology to the Augsburg Confession, Justification, ""80] Christ's sake. Thus, therefore, we prove the minor proposition. The wrath of God cannot be appeased if we set against it our own works, because Christ has been set forth as a Propitiator, so that for His sake, the Father may become reconciled to us. But Christ is not apprehended as a Mediator except by faith. Therefore, by faith alone we obtain remission of sins, when we comfort our hearts with confidence in the mercy promised for 81] Christ's sake."?
Before anyone states that this section only deals with the WELS definition of Subjective Justification note that it says, "The wrath of God cannot be appeased if we set against it our own works, because Christ has been set forth as a Propitiatior.....But Christ is not apprehended as a Mediator except by faith." So the Confessions see that until Christ is apprehended as a Mediator the world is not reconciled to God but under God's wrath as I've quoted before. This is most certainly in the realm of the WELS' Objective Justification. If OJ declares that upon Christ's resurrection God forgave all sins and declared the world righteous, what is the sin status of those in Hell? Are their sins forgiven? and if their sins are not forgiven does it mean that God's declaration that Christ's payment for all sins was incomplete? Is not the sin of unbelief a sin like any other?
In Christ,
Brett
--- Original message ---
From: "Stephan Rodmyre"
Brett,
It was my fruitless attempt to show you the subject of the sentence, which relies on the understanding of the
original language, which is exactly why Pastor Kuske phrased it the way he did. I suggest you take your
argument up with the men at our seminary or college if you have questions concerning the meaning of the
text.
In His Service,
Stephan Rodmyre
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