Yeast Through Dough
Not Here to Grandstand
There have been a couple of comments recently added to previous posts by people who find what I have written and done as documented in this blog to be wrong or deceitful. In light of this, there are a couple of things I think are pertinent for the reader to understand about this blog.
Firstly, as you can garner for yourself if you systematically read the previous posts here, I created this blog merely as a way to post my experience at the CORE, an endeavor I set out to do after reading all the gossip about the place on the internet. I did so to see if it was really as bad as they say, or if it was simply a case of die-hards not willing to see change in any fashion.
As I outlined in the very first post on this blog, I have no problem with change. There is nothing wrong with casual dress, guitars, and power point screens (in my opinion). If this is all there was to the CORE, I wouldn't care! I'm a college student, I listen to Casting Crowns, Aaron Shust, etc. - I have no problem with such styles of praise. After all, in its day the organ was "new;" I'm sure the individuals raised with Gregorian Chant were adverse to that "change" as well. However, the organ served a useful purpose in the church, in that it allowed a wider variety of music, music which could be participated in by all people. If a powerpoint screen serves the same end by more conveniently displaying the words of a hymn or the Scripture readings, then glory be to God for providing such a tool.
Unfortunately, utilizing "newer" forms of worship is not the "problem" with CORE. The issues I have raised with CORE are largely doctrinal (yes, I outlined such things as the irreverence of popcorn chewing during the prayer, but that was not the main thrust of my post). As I stated in the post, I will state again: The CORE utilized a sermon outline ripped right off of the website LifeChurch.tv, an organization developed by Craig Groeschel. You can read about why Groeschel and his ilk are so harmful to the Church here and here on Intrepid Lutherans.
If my experience at the CORE had been Christ-centered, cross-focused, I would have reported positively here and this blog would have ceased to be viewed any further. Unfortunately, the experience I had at CORE was anything but Christ-centered. As such, I find it prudent that the individuals responsible for this blatant misuse of a "worship service" be brought to task, both the actual perpetrators and their superiors. Unfortunately, save for one individual my letters concerning such have gone unheeded. THAT is why this is such a big deal.
Firstly, as you can garner for yourself if you systematically read the previous posts here, I created this blog merely as a way to post my experience at the CORE, an endeavor I set out to do after reading all the gossip about the place on the internet. I did so to see if it was really as bad as they say, or if it was simply a case of die-hards not willing to see change in any fashion.
As I outlined in the very first post on this blog, I have no problem with change. There is nothing wrong with casual dress, guitars, and power point screens (in my opinion). If this is all there was to the CORE, I wouldn't care! I'm a college student, I listen to Casting Crowns, Aaron Shust, etc. - I have no problem with such styles of praise. After all, in its day the organ was "new;" I'm sure the individuals raised with Gregorian Chant were adverse to that "change" as well. However, the organ served a useful purpose in the church, in that it allowed a wider variety of music, music which could be participated in by all people. If a powerpoint screen serves the same end by more conveniently displaying the words of a hymn or the Scripture readings, then glory be to God for providing such a tool.
Unfortunately, utilizing "newer" forms of worship is not the "problem" with CORE. The issues I have raised with CORE are largely doctrinal (yes, I outlined such things as the irreverence of popcorn chewing during the prayer, but that was not the main thrust of my post). As I stated in the post, I will state again: The CORE utilized a sermon outline ripped right off of the website LifeChurch.tv, an organization developed by Craig Groeschel. You can read about why Groeschel and his ilk are so harmful to the Church here and here on Intrepid Lutherans.
If my experience at the CORE had been Christ-centered, cross-focused, I would have reported positively here and this blog would have ceased to be viewed any further. Unfortunately, the experience I had at CORE was anything but Christ-centered. As such, I find it prudent that the individuals responsible for this blatant misuse of a "worship service" be brought to task, both the actual perpetrators and their superiors. Unfortunately, save for one individual my letters concerning such have gone unheeded. THAT is why this is such a big deal.
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Daniel,
Well written! As someone slightly older, I thank the Lord for the concern shown for Confessional Lutheranism on this and other sights.
The core of the problem (no pun intended, really!) is that many in the WELS leadership condone and encourage situations like the CORE. (I am a member of the Northern Wisconsin District, 'nuff said.) I would be surprised if any of the others you have written even acknowledge your letter.
Keep up your spirit and the good work.
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You know, you could have gotten a response. Apparantly, you were at the Core. Why didn't you just speak to the pastor about your concerns after the service? I have a feeling that you are more interested in grandstanding on the internet than actually accomplishing something.
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electronicoptimist said...
So you like sermons that lul you into a catatonic state do you? If so.. most other WELS churches are just for you! What is the retention rate in your boring old blue-haired and cotton-topeed member churches once 'kids' go on to non-WELS colleges? Like lefty-leaning liberals in universities.. all you do is churn out the same old same old. Perhaps this is why The Core is growing while others are hurting.
September 9, 2010 12:50 PM
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Daniel Baker said...
Well, if you're in it for entertainment, then by all means go to CORE! Maybe you can bring your ipod so you can listen to it if you get bored during the sermon from LifeChurch.tv.
Are a lot of WELS pastors boring? Yes. Look, I have no problem with change, if done for the right reasons. I have no problem with using a guitar in church. I have no problem updating or using a new liturgy. I have no problem with power point screens.
What I *DO* have a problem with is poor content. Lutheran worship (for that matter, *Christian* worship) is supposed to be Christ-centered, cross-focused. If we're not going to be focused on Christ, why even exist? People can get works-righteous morality from any number of other religions. THAT is the "same old same old."
As I said in my post (did you even read it?), the majority of people in the CORE are WELS members. Is this the "growth" you are looking for?
Unlike you imply, I am one of those "kids" going to a non-WELS college. In fact, I used to be like you, because the WELS church and schools I went to have become progressively more and more like yourself. However, after entering college I had the opportunity to study the book of concord, at which point I realized we are no longer true to the confessions. I find it dubious that WELS churches claim to be true to them, while clearly defying them (like the CORE does).
If you want to be like the other denominations, fine - but don't pretend to be something you're not.
September 9, 2010 1:37 PM
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gvonseng said...
Ski's sermon's are "Totally" Christ based. You sir made a total fool of yourself with this blog. You sound like a pharisee. People wonder why the WELS is a failure. It's your ritualistic pompous attitude that will be it's downfall.
September 9, 2010 4:10 PM
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electronicoptimist said...
I have attended The Core for several months after being a member at Bethany for years. You are wrong in your assessment of The Core and had I seen you snapping pictures of me.. I would have shoved your phone/camera where only the good lord would have found it. I am writing a letter to Pastor Mark Schroeder in defense of these unwaranted attacks from jealous zealots who couldn't draw new members to their church if they were handing out autographed copies of the shroud of turin!
Please advise as to the difference between popcorn and soda and cheerios and sippy cups?
You and your fellow jealous/hating brethren bloggers should be the ones to break away. I'll give you a head start: SMELLS = Stale Moldy Evangelical Lutheran Lunatic Sycophants
September 9, 2010 8:17 PM
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electronicoptimist said...
BTW: Everything in the building (inside and out) was already there. This was a $5M building that went under in a year. Even the TV's were included. Your references to walls lined with flat screen TV's (there are 2) is a gross misrepresentation. Forced fellowship.. give me a break. I worshipped at a WELS church for 9 years and had 2 people the ENTIRE time introduce themselves to me and my family. The church before that was a congregation I was baptized in through the following 25 years. In that time.. unless I was in the church's school and your kids were in school with me.. I didn't know you and rarely got as much as an acknowledgement of my existence. Too bad there wasn't any 'forced fellowship'... I may actually know people when I attend my parent's congregation.
September 9, 2010 8:56 PM
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Daniel Baker said...
So defensive.
Reminds me of a little song.
"The world is sorely grieved
whenever it is slighted,
or when its hollow fame
and honor have been blighted.
Christ, Thy reproach I bear,
long as it pleaseth Thee.
I'm honored by my Lord -
What is the world to me?"
It's an old hymn, you've probably never heard it, what with all the anti-Trinitarian Phillips Craig and Dean you're accustomed to listening to.
September 9, 2010 9:53 PM
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naderhoff (http://naderhoff.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "From a WELS Blog":
"You know, you could have gotten a response."
No, thank you. The direct approach fails with their bullheadedness.
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GJ - Pastor Tim Glende blocks email from people who want to talk to him. Paul Calvin Kelm refused to answer people about the Sweet conference. Englebrecht refused to meet with the group of pastors and laity, even though he dishonestly set up an appointment for that purpose. Larry Olson told me that he would never answer my emails, that he would consider them all as spam.
I see a pattern.
