| The full Article, with any associated images and links can be viewed here. |
| S. Mpls. car-semi crash now claims lives of husband and wife PAUL WALSH, Star Tribune The collision between a car and a semitrailer truck in south Minneapolis has now become fatal for a second person in the smaller vehicle, authorities said Thursday. Kathleen Voss, 70, of Richfield, died late Thursday morning at Hennepin County Medical Center, according to the medical examiner's office. Her husband, driver Verne Voss [WELS pastor], also 70, died Tuesday, about 4 hours after the crash. The crash happened shortly after 1 p.m., when the car was traveling north on Park Avenue and was struck on the driver's side by the semi, which was heading east on E. 46th Street, police said. --- The car was traveling north on Park Avenue when it was struck on the driver's side by the semi, which was heading east on E. 46th Street. An investigation continues with the help of the office of the State Commercial Vehicle Inspector. The cause of the crash has not been determined, police said. --- MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) — Two people who were hospitalized after a crash in Minneapolis earlier this week have died. The accident happened Tuesday afternoon at the intersection of East 46th Street and Portland Avenue South. At time of the crash, police said the car was heading northbound on Portland Avenue South, ran a red light and was T-boned by a semi-truck towing a flatbed trailer. Verne Voss, 70, who was in the car, died a few hours after the crash, according to the Hennepin County Medical Examiner. His wife, 70-year-old Kathleen Voss, died Thursday from injuries suffered in the crash. The Minneapolis Police Department is continuing to investigate the crash. http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/01/06/2-dead-from-injuries-in-minneapolis-crash/ |
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samuelthrace has left a new comment on your post "Fatal Car Crash":
Are you glad this happened? Do you take pleasure that a WELS pastor made a fatal error? Is his death just another "thing" to you that makes you feel superior to the WELS? If not, why else would you highlight the detail that he ran a red light?
You, sir, are despicable.
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GJ - Everything above is from the Internet. I supposed the news sources are despicable because they reported what the police told them. The police are despicable because they investigated the accident. They should over up the facts to make Holy Mother WELS look perfect.
I believe people should consider auto accidents and think about how they can drive more safely. I recall how the news sources said 1,000 soldiers died in Iraq after several years of fighting. I pointed out to my college classes that we lost that many each year in Arizona, from car crashes.
The red light was highlighted merely because the other reports did not give a cause and people speed read through posts.
Looking for motivation in a verbatim report is rather Eighth Commandish.
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samuelthrace has left a new comment on your post "Fatal Car Crash":
I do have sympathy for the family. It is a great tragedy. I don't think I was "hyperanalyzing" Greg's post. He had no words of sympathy for the family, either. Given his attitude toward the WELS, I don't think I was out of line suggesting that he felt a little superior when he read the article, especially (as noted before) since he highlighted the cause of the accident without a word of sympathy for the family.
Wake up, Jackson lackeys! He is a bitter, bitter man.
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GJ - Pardon me if this new comment reminds me so much of WELS Pastor Tim Glende. This anonymous (no profile) Samuel Thrace has no words of sympathy for the family, only condemnation of a simple, factual post. His two pathetic posts so far are full of rancor and bitterness. The trouble is - it could one of many WELS pastors. They are thin-skinned but eager to condemn. But - not all of them are like Glende. If they were, WELS would be even worse off than it is now.
I know a lot of people read this blog, so I posted the information as a favor to those who follow these things. For Moliners I also post obituaries and death notices on that blog and FB page. I spent some time looking for an obituary for Pastor Voss. So far it has not appeared.
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Anne has left a new comment on your post "Fatal Car Crash":
I find your highlighting of the red light incredibly disturbing and extremely disrespectful. This post is the first time I've seen your blog. (I googled Verne Voss and your blog came up...I'm sure that makes you happy.) It's obvious I don't need to look any further through it. You're a sad man. So sad. Thankfully, Pastor and Kathy won't ever read your heartless copy and paste...and therefore they won't see that you said nothing about them losing their lives and, more importantly, gaining their crown of glory. You are just sad.
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GJ - Another anonymous just found the blog post! How they do crop up and how they all read the same. But they are filled with love and concern...and more WELSian name-calling. They are good at that.
Making information known is "heartless"?
When two MLC students died in another auto crash, I copied what was available, so people could find out for themselves. I did not know them either, but I heard that many appreciated having a place to go for the information.
If you think this makes WELS look good, to send such immature comments anonymously, you must have studied at Mequon.
Anyone who thinks that others rejoice in a car accident is a sick person.
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Vern Voss was a Church Growth leader in WELS and joined the LCMS after retirement.
23 comments:
Oh that is so sad. I'm praying for the family and friends of this couple. How horrible.
Are you glad this happened? Do you take pleasure that a WELS pastor made a fatal error? Is his death just another "thing" to you that makes you feel superior to the WELS? If not, why else would you highlight the detail that he ran a red light?
You, sir, are despicable.
Grow up, Samuel, and stop hyperanalyzing this post. You should instead have words of comfort for the family, not ridicule with the force to tear down trees.
I do have sympathy for the family. It is a great tragedy. I don't think I was "hyperanalyzing" Greg's post. He had no words of sympathy for the family, either. Given his attitude toward the WELS, I don't think I was out of line suggesting that he felt a little superior when he read the article, especially (as noted before) since he highlighted the cause of the accident without a word of sympathy for the family.
Wake up, Jackson lackeys! He is a bitter, bitter man.
A little out of line? To suggest that anyone is that macabre is very, very low. Don't be dehumanizing.
I find your highlighting of the red light incredibly disturbing and extremely disrespectful. This post is the first time I've seen your blog. (I googled Verne Voss and your blog came up...I'm sure that makes you happy.) It's obvious I don't need to look any further through it. You're a sad man. So sad. Thankfully, Pastor and Kathy won't ever read your heartless copy and paste...and therefore they won't see that you said nothing about them losing their lives and, more importantly, gaining their crown of glory. You are just sad.
Do you have information on where memorials and letters can be sent?
No, but I will post the information when I find it.
As someone who was a very, very close friend of one of the two MLC students who died in the car crash a year and a half ago, I did not find Pastor Jackson's review of information out of line. However, I found the anonymous idiots (the people who knew nothing of either student) to be completely out of line. I chose not to say anything and rather let them wallow in their own bitter discontent of someone beating them in the grand race. I'll let whoever is in the audience of this blog research the posts to find out what and who I'm talking about. Tragic mistakes happen, and glorifying them is a sin. End of story.
That said, the bolding of the line referring to the error made by the driver seems quite insensitive. It's all about communication. What one perceives the bolding to be may be considered offensive, even if it wasn't intended that way. It's always good to think about what the interpretation will be to some people, Pastor Jackson. Relaying the information as is without anything extra would have been a better course of action.
My thoughts and prayers are with the family of Verne and Kathleen Voss, and while the event is tragic and horrible in many aspects, at the same time we can be happy that the couple has now met with their Lord in Heaven, and will be with Him forevermore, just as my close friend Zach is now. A lesson I'm glad to have learned with me at an early age, and carry with me for the rest of my days.
Format is in the eye of the beholder. Previous anonymous comments came from pure animosity.
The various reports were all given a better format to make them readable.
An obvious question is - How did the accident happen? Bolding one line out of many showed that it came from running a red light. If no one has ever done that, then please apply for sainthood at once.
It could happen to any of us; I've accidentally run a stop sign before. I pray that the family can rejoice in the Word of Christ, even in the midst of this tragedy.
Actually, these anonymous bloggers are all wrong. The concern should be more for the trucker than anyone else, who was made against his (or her) will to take the life of others and will have to deal with it. I doubt anyone in the WELS will be sending him or her money for counselling sessions:
East 46th Street and Portland Avenue South:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=East+46th+Street+and+Portland+Avenue+South,+minneapolis,+mn&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Portland+Ave+S+%26+E+46th+St,+Minneapolis,+MN+55407&gl=us&ei=w9ImTe2LH4rfnQe8nPXUAQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CBQQ8gEwAA
Minnesota is a comparative negligence state. Media accounts cannot report on all of the details.
I have known Pastor Voss and Kathy for many years. I was in Kathy's pre-school class, and Pastor Voss was my pastor for many years until he left St. Paul's Luthern Church in Jordan MN. In fact when I became engaged in 2003 I sought out Pastor Voss and asked him if he would officiate my wedding for me and he graciously agreed to marry me and my husband. He officiated my wedding in 2004.
If the reports are correct and he did run a red light (which none of us will ever know) I am confident that it was completely on accident. After all he was only human and humans make mistakes. I have nothing but respect and admiration for both Verne and Kathy and their children and do not want to see their reputations smeared because of this.
I too am anxiously awaiting the obituaries and funeral service announcements because if the service is open to the public, I will be going to pay my respects to both of them and give the children my support. If the children decide to have a private ceremony for family only I will respect their wishes and send a card instead.
This accident is a tragedy because both Verne and Kathy had so much more to give to the local communities and others. Rest in Peace my good friends. We will miss you.
To: Plphpet
You think the Minneapolis Police Department may have drawn the wrong conclusion about the crash. Thus, you think that the trucker may have been at fault after all. I take it you won't be sending any condolences to the trucker! However, it is easy to determine that the trucker was not at fault and won't get a ticket. Keep reading to find out why. Also, I write this hoping to maybe save some WELS pastors lives.
I know (not "know of") a WELS pastor who took a left turn on a green arrow. A lady was traveling 40mph in a 25mph zone and hit his oversized gas guzzling vehicle, causing no injuries. He was still at fault though he had to check with an assistant district attorney before he was willing to believe the police were right. Here's what he found out:
Whenever a person executes a turn at an intersection, the law says that person must ensure that there is no oncoming traffic that would hit him if he made the turn. It doesn't matter what traffic signage or lights are at the intersection, or what color the light is.
Even if Rev. Voss had the green light, he was still 100% at fault because he was making a turn at that intersection. The police said he was traveling north on Portland Ave South when approaching the E 46th St cross street. He had to turn at that intersection, or else he would have been traveling the wrong way on a one-way street. You can see the street signs on Google Maps using Street View. Even if he had a green, he was supposed to ensure no oncoming traffic would hit him if he made the turn.
WELS pastors mostly attend parochial and prep schools where they don't offer driving classes. So they typically go home during the summer and take a one-month quickie course, and then take the test some time later. However, public school students take the course over a semester's time when they are 15.5 years of age, and then are home and are driving a parent around between six months and a year or more before they are allowed to test for a permanent license. Prep students don't get that much opportunity for supervised driving since they are away from home. So it's not surprising to me that WELS pastors get in unnecessary accidents because they never learned the finer points of traffic law. Rev Voss, of course, may have known the regulation, but perhaps was distracted or neglectful, but the law is clear cut and what he was thinking at the time is irrelevant as far as the law is concerned.
Interesting point Bruce....
I went to a WELS prep school, and had to take driver's ed during summer vacation.
In addition, since I am of that (awful?) generation known as the "Baby Boom" (also known as the Baby Boo-Hooers), there was no way I could enroll for summer classes at the local public high, which had a waiting list for summer ed driver education.
So, not only did I not go to a public high school, I did not receive driver's ed at a public high school.
Instead, my parents sent me to a private drivers ed class. However, I have to admit it was probably as good, if not better, then the public high school version. We actually got more road time than those at public did.
I got my drivers license on my 16th birthday, but as you noted, since I lived away from home during most of the year during my high school years there was little regular practice driving except for the summers.
I never had a car while away at prep. Frankly, with all the potential for vandalism (to one's car) I never wanted to have one at prep.
How fortunate that pastor had an "oversized" vehicle so that he was not injured!
Answer to Bruce-Church's Post:
You are twisting my words around to fit your scenario. I am not saying the truck driver was at fault at all or that the police are wrong. What I said is Pastor Voss may have run a red light but it was not done as an intentional, deliberate, or malicious act or out of ignorance of the laws like you make it sound. I never said he was not at fault but there may have been circumstances beyond his control that caused him to run a red light.
None of us know what the actual circumstances are. Was he talking and distracted where he took his eyes off the road for a second just as the light was turning and didn't have the time to stop when he looked up? (I have done this myself thankfully when no other cars have been coming the other way) Was there ice or slush on the roads (if they had the same weather we did here this is a possibility) where he tried to stop but slid through the light? Did the brakes on the car fail? There are a million other scenarios that could have caused him to run that light.
But to accuse him of not knowing the rules of the road you are WAY out of line there. Have you ever met Pastor Voss or Kathy? If you have not then you should not pass judgment on their knowledge of the rules of the road and driving. Just because he went to WELS does not mean he was ignorant of the driving rules.
He was human and humans make mistakes. End of story.
No fault insurance places the blame on both drivers for just being there. I know this because my mother was in an accident at a traffic light where she had the green and was going straight and another car T-boned her but both drivers got a ticket and the insurance companies agreed to settle the claims. The insurance company explained she was 50% at fault because she was there.
I am not going to post anymore on this blog. I've said my peace and if you want to continue this more I can't stop you but I don't have to participate.
GJ- Here is the info about the Voss' funeral and wake arrangements in Minneapolis. I still don't see any spot to send memorials, but I am assuming that Pilgrim Lutheran in Minneapolis is where they should go.
The Voss Reviewal will be
Monday, January 11th
at St. Michael's Church
9201 Normandale Blvd
from 4:00 PM to 7:00 PM
The Voss funeral will be
Tuesday, January 11th
at St. Michael's Church
9201 Normandale Blvd at 11:00 AM
Plphpet, I wrote what I did because, as I said, I'm hoping to save lives, not only of WELS pastors, but those whom they might hit. I didn't accuse anyone of anything, nor twist your statement. If you don't believe the police report, then you are putting part of the onus of the accident on the trucker. If anyone needs defending, it's the trucker, not Rev. Voss who no doubt has plenty of defenders like yourself who are willing to disbelieve the police report if it puts Rev. Voss in a better light.
Plphpet wrote that it was good the pastor was driving a gas guzzling vehicle since then there were no injuries. True, however, the pastor was caught up in the American Road Arms Race in which many are trying to drive the largest vehicle they can afford to drive just because many are doing the same thing. Ever since SUVs, vans and pickups became popular, no one feels safe anymore in an economy-sized car. If a pastor is going to buy a big vehicle that's more dangerous to others than a normal car, and he thereby chooses to send money to the Arabs so they can build more mosques in America, at least he should ensure that he knows and follows the rules of the road!
Plphpet follows the standard WELS practice. First, even though I wrote "Rev Voss, of course, may have known the regulation," Plphget wrote: "But to accuse him of not knowing the rules of the road you are WAY out of line there."
cont'd...
cont'd:
That's the typical way WELS members slander other people by falsely accusing them of slander. Now why would Plphget slander me, saying I accused someone else of something. Because then he can haul out the overused-in-the-WELS 8 & 18 switch, a favorite of the WELS, or the shorthand version of it, which is "Have you ever met" so-and-so? Plphget wrote: "Have you ever met Pastor Voss or Kathy?" That's shorthand for the 8 & 18 switch since if I never met this particular Voss (and who can keep track of them all), I could never have approached him Mat 18-style.
One can see why accusing another person of slander or of casting aspersions, whether true or not, is a favorite of the WELS due to their handy 8 & 18 switch. In fact, one pastor told me that even saying something true about someone else can be slander, so eager are the WELS to put out the 8 & 18 switch. Not only do WELS-taught persons avoid the dictionary when it comes to spelling, but also for dictionary definitions!
Then Plphget says he's not going to write anymore in this forum. That's a typical WELS tactic, too. WELS pastors are quicker at the draw than a gunslinger when it comes to 8 & 18, which means they win the fight. Then to avoid a rematch, they preemptively declare one's self not available or contactable so they don't have to apologize or admit to their slander. But hey? Why not? The whole world including Hitler is preemptively forgiven. (UOJ goes a long way in explaining much WELSish behavior, especially by their pastors.)
Google: "road arms race" suvs
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&expIds=17259,27617,27955&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=%22road+arms+race
Plphpet wrote: "No fault insurance places the blame on both drivers for just being there."
Plphpet, you don't seem to fully understand how no-fault insurance works.
A no-fault insurance law merely means the insurance companies pays 50-50 for a two-car accident, or 33% of a 3-car accident. However, the police and insurance companies still do determine who is at fault, and by how much, and assess traffic points and raise insurance premiums accordingly--just as they do in at-fault states.
In the case you mentioned, if they were both going straight through the intersection, then who had the green light would become an issue. If one of them were attempting a turn, then that person would have been 100% at fault, regardless of the color of the light.
http://vegaspersonalinjurylawblog.com/blog/2010/05/what-is-an-at-fault-accident-and-how-does-it-affect-your-insurance-rates/
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