Dave Schumacher has left a new comment on your post "Know Nothings and the Anti-Intellectualism of the ...":
Hello Dr. Jackson,
Although I have not read everything you have written concerning UOJ, I have read enough to understand, I think, your basic premise; please correct me if I am wrong.
You say that Christ has paid the price for all the sins of the entire world, this you call the atonement. You teach that this atonement is not the same as forgiveness, or justification, and that in order to be forgiven a person must have faith. Then, and only then, is a person justified and forgiven. You teach that the faith necessary for forgiveness is a trusting in the promise of God that He will forgive, for the sake of Christ’s atoning work, when we come to faith. You further teach that we may only come by this faith through the means (Word and Sacrament) which God has promised and provided. In short, you teach that God did not pronounce the sins of the entire world forgiven when He promised His Son to Adam and Eve in the Garden.
You teach that the concept of Universal Objective Justification, and it’s (sic) companion, Subjective Justification, grew out of Pietism and was further developed and promulgated by C.F.W. Walther and the Synodical Conference. I have read many times where you have enlisted the words of Martin Luther in providing support for both your theological premise and your historical premise regarding the origin and development of UOJ.
So that I might have a clearer, more precise, understanding of your teaching, I would be very interested in your explanation of these words of the Reformer.
“….Now the Law comes and says: “I find Him a sinner, who takes upon Himself the sins of all men. I do not see any other sins than those in Him. Therefore let Him die on the cross!” And so it attacks Him and kills Him. By this deed the whole world is purged and expiated from all sins, and thus it is set free from death and from every evil. ………..
…….Therefore the argument that Paul presents here is the most powerful and the highest of all against all the righteousness of the flesh; for it contains this invincible and irrefutable antithesis: If the sins of the entire world are on that one man, Jesus Christ, then they are not on the world. But if they are not on Him, then they are still on the world. Again, if Christ Himself is made guilty of all the sins that we have all committed, then we are absolved from all sins, not through ourselves or through our own works or merits but through Him. But if He is innocent and does not carry our sins, then we carry them and shall die and be damned in them. “But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.” (1 Cor. 15:57.)” – Martin Luther (Lectures on Galatians [1535], Luther’s Works, Vol. 26, pp. 276-77, 279-81)
Please accept my sincere thanks in advance for your reply.
Dave Schumacher
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GJ - The Word of God teaches, the Book of Concord confesses, and I agree with both about justification by faith.
Dave's question, which is really a prelude to his argument, misses most of the basics of the Christian faith. The atonement, expiation, propiation, and redemption (to use various synonyms) all teach that Christ died for the sins of the world. The UOJ Enthusiasts, following the Pietism of Walther and Knapp, bypass the efficacy of the Word in the Means of Grace.
The atonement is not the same as justification. The Calvinists, according to my expert, Dr. Lito Cruz, confuse and merge the two - atonement and justification.
Dave should do some research on his own narrow field of UOJ experts. They have conceded that justification in the New Testament only means justification by faith. Moreover, they have not found UOJ in the Book of Concord. That is why the LQ fanatics quote the St. Louis gang, including the one who left for Rome, because UOJ came in late via Pietism.
The efficacious Word plants faith in a baby's heart through the work of the Spirit in Holy Baptism. Likewise, an adult is converted by the Word of God. In both cases, the faith created by the Word receives the work Christ has accomplished for us. The Book of Concord, following Luther, teaches that believing and forgiveness of sin go together.
Dave has quoted a selection from Luther that he imagines will back up his UOJ Pietism. LQ tried that many times from the Book of Concord. Luther expressed the totality of the atonement in this selection, and I have to emphasize the word selection. LQ would quote a Book of Concord atonement passage and say, "Aha! OJ!" I would look it up and copy the adjacent, yes the adjacent sentences that spoke of justification by faith alone.
I have read thousands of pages of Luther, and nowhere do I find him suddenly abandoning justification by faith in favor of justification without faith.
What Dave does here is really quite evil. He has his UOJ blinders. He and his buddies share their favorite imaginary UOJ quotations. They have a little pile of them, 90% from the golden years of The Kidnapper and his Chosen Disciple (F. Pieper). The other 10% come from a careful excision of material from Luther, Chemnitz, and Aunt Sadie. Dave would like all of us to read the Bible, Luther, and the Book of Concord from the assumption that this quotation is the Pearl of Great Price for Lutheran doctrine.
I could use Luther's Magnificat commentary the same way. Luther prayed to Mary in that little book. Therefore, all passages of the Bible may be read from that viewpoint. There are some Marian passages in the Book of Concord too, such as the Perpetual Virginity of Mary - right out of the Middle Ages, including the claim that Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ. That is the problem when someone creates a sect out of one quotation, and Catholics today use those tidbits to entice Lutherans into "returning to Rome."
However, the Bible is the ruling norm, the judge of all books. The Book of Concord is faithfully witnesses to those truths. No one at LQ wants to deal with the Formula of Concord article on "The Righteousness of Faith." The Enthusiasts love their righteousness without faith.
When Walther kidnapped two minor children from his father's parsonage, was he already forgiven?
Was this LCMS pastor already forgiven, before he was arrested?
Should we sin more, that grace may abound?
I suggest reading the doctrinal graphics I have provided. They completely refute the bogus ideas Dave is trying to promote.
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raklatt (http://raklatt.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "LutherQuest Denizen Has a Question about UOJ and L...":
Let us turn one more page, to page 282:
"To the extent that Christ rules by His grace in the hearts of the faithful, there is no sin or death or curse. But where Christ is not known, there these things remain. And so all who do not believe lack this blessing and this victory. “For this,” as John says, “is our victory, faith” (1 John 5:4).
"This is the chief doctrine of the Christian faith. The sophists have completely obliterated it, and today the fanatics are obscuring it once more."
Luther, M. (1999, c1963). Vol. 26: Luther's works, vol. 26 : Lectures on Galatians, 1535, Chapters 1-4 (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald & H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther's Works (26:282). Saint Louis: Concordia Publishing House.
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GJ - Thank you, Ray. The trouble is, the LQ denizens will stare at Luther's words and find nothing amiss in their confused and confusing opinions.
