Cone has left a new comment on your post "WELS Convention Poster":
The Divine Service isn't meant for heathens per se. It's meant for God's elect. God's elect yearn for the Sacraments because they know the importance of them. They don't yearn for gimmicks and shows and entertainment worship. Sadly, a lot of services are directed toward the "convert" or in other words towards the unbeliever. God tells us to be faithful and let the Holy Spirit do His work. Where do we get off thinking we need to add something to it? God knows his sheep and they will hear His voice. See the doctrine of election and especially this:
http://www.gottesdienstonline.blogspot.com/2011/05/freed-from-shopkeepers-prison-in.html
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GJ - The Seeker Service, dubbed the Sneaker Service by Guy Purdue, is imported from Willow Creek Community Church. No crosses distinguish Willow Creek from a suburban mall. No cross inside annoys the seeker. Rev. Hybel is so wise that he teaches the Lutherans how to do things right.
WELS tried Friendship Sunday, another form of the Sneaker Service, under Valleskey's direction. That really worked well. Of course, it is not our business to decide what works well, but the Fuller alumni (like Valleskey, Kelm, Huebner, Olson) insist they can make things turn out right.
Everyone was wrong before these genius theologians went to Fuller Seminary and Willow Creek. If many of their seminary graduates have become Pentecostal, atheistic, or Babtists, that is not the fault of the faculty. Oh no. The obvious apostates "went too far." That is the ticket - learning from Fuller but not going too far with false doctrine, creating a hybrid.
I know what Lutherans need - Lutheran doctrine and Babtist revivals. But that is a contradiction. Those who worship in the name of Enthusiasm also believe in their Enthusiasm, whatever it might be - from miraculous cure services to incense smoke and mirrors.
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LutherRocks has left a new comment on your post "Sunday Is Not for Recruiting. In the Worship Servi...":
So true...there was a time when I thought...this is the way we are going to do it! We are going to change WELS and Lutheranism for the better! We will help the Holy Ghost make it big!!!!
Bazingo...
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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Sunday Is Not for Recruiting. In the Worship Servi...":
Excellent comments from the Gottesdienst paper: [GJ - the link did not work for me]
"This can be seen by looking back at the pastoral guides of old. Oddly enough, they line up with
the ordination vows. These are the timeless, central, all consuming duties of the pastor. Johann Gerhard identifies seven duties in his early 17th century Loci theologici under the Ministry. (1) the preaching of the heavenly Word; (2) the administration of the sacraments; (3) praying for the flock entrusted to them; (4) the honorable management of their life and behavior; (5) the administration of church discipline; (6) the preservation of the rituals of the church; (7) the care of the poor and the
visitation of the sick. - p.13
Also, Chemnitz 50 years earlier re the pastor faithfully carrying out ecclesiastical ceremonies:
"Chemnitz also set the example that Gerhard would later follow when it came to the pastor's duty
toward faithfully leading the flock in worship. Listen to these words:
Part 3. With regard to the doctrine concerning ecclesiastical ceremonies (which we first said would be the third chief part of this examination), it is contained and set forth in the church order. Pastors should also be examined with regard to that very doctrine, so that they might both have the right understanding of it and be able rightly to explain it to their hearers. Likewise, one should inquire whether and how
they observe those ceremonies. Superintendents should also confer with pastors regarding marriage
orders, incorporated in the church order, that they might have the necessary understanding also of
them." - p.14
For many years at the Sausage Factory "Liturgics" class was a joke among the students. WELS has been at the receiving end of that punch line for generations.
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AC V has left a new comment on your post "Sunday Is Not for Recruiting. In the Worship Servi...":
From Gottesdienst, a quote from Gerhard:
"The sixth duty of ministers of the church involves the preservation of the rites of the church. To be sure, the institution of those rituals pertains not only to ministers of the church but also to the Christian magistrate and ought to be done with the consensus of the whole church. Nevertheless, this preservation is correctly assigned to ministers lest they either change or abrogate the rituals accepted by the public authority of the church on the basis of their personal whim. Rather, they should preserve them to protect harmony and promote good order. For although church rituals by nature are adiaphora since God’s Word neither commands nor forbids them, and though they do not of themselves constitute some portion of divine worship, nevertheless their abrogation ought not occur merely because of one party in the church." - p.15
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GJ - Gerhard denies UOJ, so he must be dismissed as a heretic.
