bruce-church (http://bruce-church.myopenid.com/) has left a new comment on your post "Lutheran Seminary Fraud: Students Are Bankrupting ...":
Throughout the interview, Rev. Herb Mueller never said anything about bringing the price of seminary education down so more non-calling congregations could actually afford to call a candidate without monstrous student loan bills. He instead blamed the unaffordability factor on the rising cost of health insurance and benefits.
He did mention that the LCMS should work more with congregations to get them ready to call a pastor, and also pastors should be willing to accept calls where they will need a part-time job to make ends meet.
He did mention that in the past that seminary recruiters did include non-calling congregations in their figures to make it seem as though there were hundreds of long-term unfilled vacancies, and said it was not exactly dishonest to do so, but it wasn't exactly telling the whole truth, either.
I wonder whether, without that bit of misinformation, all the building projects at the seminaries would have been started. Surely that disinformation prematurely shut down any talk of merging the seminaries into one campus, or at least two campuses with one administration, and now those seminaries are as costly as ever with fewer students than ever, too.
He said that LCMS's World Relief (Harrison's old outfit) did help seminary students who didn't receive calls in the past, like the 13 Ft. Wayne students last year for some time.
He mentioned that back in 1939 his father didn't receive a call for two years due to the bad economy then. I say that all those kind of stories are quaint but irrelevant since back then the students weren't greatly indebted by the colleges and seminaries to the federal government. So they could go back to their towns or farms and wait for a long delayed call, and it was no great loss to them. Synod officials should not gauge their conduct by antiquated standards.
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Issues Etc: The Shortage of Pastoral Calls in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod
Interviewee: Pastor Herb Mueller, First Vice President of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod
http://issuesetc.org/podcast/828083111H1S1.mp3
5 comments:
I love the pouty-faced boxer. Of course, I am biased, since I have one. More to follow...
I understand the health insurance costs. However, (I hate to use Anabaptists as an example) why not look into self-insurance? As I recall, Concordia uses Blue Cross. With all the LCMS employees, why not look into pooling resources and ditching Blue Cross. On the other hand, Blue Cross may be a better steward of people's money than the LCMS.
In regards to student loans, a Missouri pastor once told me that the calling congregation is expected to help with the loans. He also told me that he has yet to see one case where this has actually happened. Pity the poor guy and and his family with upwards of $50,000 of debt, especially if he doesn't receive a call. CRM guys are as good as someone who never went to sem and will most likely return to secular vocations.
The LCMS should face the reality that we are in the post-Christian age. Most people do not attend church, and many that do are Christmas and Easter parishioners. People are having less children. Besides, if someone wants Methobapticostalism, go for the real deal instead of a wannabe LINO parish.
Narrow-minded Lutheran. Nice comments on the post. I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about the 20-minute recorded interview. Perhaps I missed something.
Observatons from the "Issues, Etc. " clip:
578 "non-calling" congregations today vs. 328 ten years ago: Okay, the rural population issues and health care costs are certainly valid points. While he admitted that many parishes are using emeritus pastors, what he did not say is that some parishes use vicars (yes, to administer the Sacraments with district approval). I wish I had numerical stats for this occurance. Also, from the clip, many pastors are serving two congregations (and some even three). Yes, burnout is common. The overall observation is that no one wants to admit that the "numbers" are simply declining. I just read that the mean age of the Church of England (which will probably be all but gone in another generation) is 61.
199 congregations calling "sole pastors" today vs. 621 ten years ago: Wow! That's all one can say. At least he admitted that the "pastoral crisis" was "exaggerated."
Personal observations:
1. Although St. Paul said pastors are supposed to make their living by the Gospel, St. Paul himself also made it clear that he paid his own way. I think clergy or those aspiring to be pastors will have to accept the fact that they may have to also work in a secular vocation to supplement income. I believe this is the reality in this age. The cushy Concoria Plan ain't free.
2. As an aside, I was recently told that the Vicarge Program was instituted during the Great Depression to delay calls during those economically miserable times. I was also told that a recent vicarage candidate was denied a vicarage due to a scandalous life. What was his sin? Too much debt from student loans. This is almost funny, except that this guy and his family probably failed to see the humor.
3. Also not mentioned was the SMP Program. I can't readily find the stats on the number of SMP students vs. regular MDiv students, but I'm sure many parishes seeking an asst./assoc. pastor are going this route. Also note that the SMP students are not eligible for grants or Fed aid. I think the SMP is where the LCMS is headed. The "growthy" parishes will seek them, I believe. No greek required. Since I have ranted in the past about the SMP and my dislike for it, I will abstain from further comment.
4. Although Herb Mueller claimed that there will be many pastors retiring in a few years when (if?) the economy recovers, I think the gaggle of calls will be short-lived. The percentage of the population that attends church is simply declining.
5. Yes, the mega-churches seem to be thriving, but when the "thrill" is gone and the people go seeking their next "high," they will also eventually fail. Those 3,000-plus churches are probably supported in the majority by a few families. Will they return to traditional church bodies? My money is on the negatory.
6. One of the LCMS sems will close. It is inevitable. There was skuttlebutt a few years ago about MDiv's starting their classes at the Concordia U level and finishing distance ed. Concordia U's, what a disaster, both theologically and finacially. One can receive Evolution and homosexual tolerance brainwashing much cheaper elsewhere.
Narrow-Minded on the Issues Etc Interview And Seminary Fraud, Sept 2, 2011
http://ichabodthegloryhasdeparted.blogspot.com/2011/09/narrow-minded-on-issues-etc-interview.html
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