Police water cannon and plastic bullets? After 50 years of the most lavish welfare state on earth? What an abject failure
Last updated at 9:16 AM on 14th August 2011
Bitter laughter is my main response to the events of the past week. You are surprised by what has happened? Why? I have been saying for years that it was coming, and why it was coming, and what could be done to stop it.
I have said it in books, in articles, over lunch and dinner tables with politicians whose lips curled with lofty contempt.
So yes, I am deeply sorry for the innocent and gentle people who have lost lives, homes, businesses and security. Heaven knows I have argued for years for the measures that might have saved them.
Faced with reality: Left-wingers at last meet the filthy thing they have created, and which they ignored when it did not affect them personally
Fear, intimidation, cruelty, injustice, savagery: The mass criminality in the big cities is merely a speeded-up and concentrated version of life on most large estates
But I am not really very sorry for the elite liberal Londoners who have suddenly discovered what millions of others have lived with for decades.
The mass criminality in the big cities is merely a speeded-up and concentrated version of life on most large estates – fear, intimidation, cruelty, injustice, savagery towards the vulnerable and the different, a cold sneer turned towards any plea for pity, the awful realisation that when you call for help from the authorities, none will come.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2025695/UK-riots-Police-water-cannon-plastic-bullets-After-50-years-lavish-welfare-state-earth-What-abject-failure-says-Peter-Hitchens.html#ixzz1V5SScxs1
27 comments:
The social inequality ever since Reagan, and Margaret Thatcher, who copied Reagan's tax breaks for the rich, is as high now in the US and UK as it is in developing nations which have long been criticized for the huge gap between the wealthy and the poor. The welfare that the poor in the US and UK have been receiving since Reagan's time is not enough to bring them up out of poverty and get them workforce skills, but only is bread and circuses, and promotes generational welfare. Social mobility is almost non-existent anymore in the US and UK since the poor can't even hope to send their kids to college anymore.
People say, hey, the rioters have Black Berries, but what they have is the cheap service plan for phone-to-phone conversations, not the expensive plans that are commonly known about.
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In the UK, the Gini coefficient is now higher than at any time over the past 30 years - and a fair bit worse than the average developed country:
http://www.citywire.co.uk/money/chart-of-the-day-how-unequal-is-rioting-britain/a514890?ref=citywire-money-latest-news-list
[The riots] "are a reflection of social exclusion and inequality in Britain, a response to the reality of poverty in places like London where the smart terraces inhabited by wealthy young professionals sit so close to run-down tower blocks."
My family and I were walking out of the Wisconsin State Fairgrounds around 7:30. We exited via the midway to get to our car and on our way out we found ourselves amid a crowd of black teenagers who suddenly, as a mass, began to shout. The noise was similar to the sound at Lambeau when the Packers score a touchdown.
I looked around and saw a fight 30 yards away. There were perhaps 200 teens watching two men hitting each other and cheering. Needless to say, we all boogied to the exit. On our way out of the park a bunch of cops on bikes raced to the scene. Later that night scores of black people attacked scored of white people.
This business happening in London is already happening in this country, and it's going to increase as publicly funded benefits are reduced or eliminated.
In Milwaukee the problem centers around the black population because most of the free money goes to that demographic. In Madison, last spring, we saw a racially diverse group of Union members storm the Wisconsin Capital, acting like animals when Governor Walker proposed a reduction of "benefits".
Government's habit of giving away goodies from the public treasury turns recipients into beasts... beasts who think they have a Right to an easy life. London is paying the price of socialism and they deserve every bit of the riots, anarchy etc.
Bored Prophecy #1: Certain hotspots in the US will look like London, starting July 2012. Watch Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, LA, Pittsburgh.
I'm wondering how they could afford BlackBerrys in the first place, regardless of service plan. My neighbours -- in a pleasant upper-middle class area -- look for the cheapest mobile phones.
I would imagine that the Left wing and the Establishment are not so very far apart as one would imagine, which is one of the reasons why I have been running my posts on Communism and Marxism all summer long.
Lenin said that he and his cohorts should have been hanged (as Pastor Wurmbrand mentioned in one of his Marx and Satan chapters). Lenin admitted that they had not been serving Russia's interests, only their own and the Establishment's.
These riots might -- might -- bring a police state closer. (Heaven forbid.) Ditto with the disturbances which have occurred in Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Chicago and other US cities during the past year.
These things do not happen on their own. Notice what wasn't attacked in London. If inequality had been such a major factor, they would have left their own neighbourhoods alone and run to the City (financial district). But, the City was left untouched.
The idea is to intimidate the middle class until they cry out of desperation for help and security.
Sorry, Bruce, not buying it....for quite a number of reasons...
First, with the exception of the past 3 or 4 years, living standards for practically everyone is higher than it was in the 1970's (most people live in air conditioned houses, travel more freqently by air, until about 2007 a record number owned their own homes, more clothing, have newere and better cards, own computers, smart phones, ipods, etc, etc, etc...
The bankruptcy is NOT economic, but it is MORAL bankruptcy.
Europe to a great extent turned its back on Christianity during the 20th century; Christianity is considered more of a hertiage as opposed to a belief system in a divine being, or a study of how a sinful world is reconciled to a holy God.
That is why there increasing are converts to Islam in many European countries of native Europeans (not even talking about the immigration issue).
Man always seeks the spiritual, and since Europe abdicated its Christian heritage, people are turning elsewhere.
Muslims in London actually took a stand against the rioters and put their bodies on the line to defend their neighborhoods. If I was an irreligious native Britisher, I would see that and go "hmmmm....those people really have faith in something..."
Anyway...Bruce...maybe the rich have gotten richer since the time of Reagan/Thatcher...but the poor, especially in the USA, would make most middle class people in other countries envious.
Grumpy "I pay enough taxes" Lutheran
Grumpy, The poor aren't idiots. Just because their situation has improved by, say, 15% since the 1970s, doesn't mean they won't notice that everyone else's situation has improved by 50% or 100 or 1000% in some cases. While you might say it is sin for them to act out in the historically well-known ways (rioting, looting) in response to this situation, the rest of society is partly to blame.
You may pay enough taxes but the corporations and rich and super-rich have gotten out of most taxes. It used to be corporations paid 30% tax and the rich paid 50% tax or better. Now corporations are down to a 6 to 8% effective tax rate, and the rich are down to 17.5%, while the middle class pays 26%.
The Republicans have hit upon a winning formula. Their votes come from the middle class while their money comes from the rich. So what they do is keep middle class taxes high so the middle class remains receptive to their low-tax message, and they lower taxes on corporations and the rich so they keep on sending Republicans thank- you money. Works great every election!
Historical Tax Rates by Income Group
http://visualizingeconomics.com/2007/11/03/nytimes-historical-tax-rates-by-income-group/
Riots coming to San Francisco. Police already had to shut down public transit and cell phone service to avoid London-style riots:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/08/15/california.bart.protest/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Meanwhile, an official with the system stood by the decision to shut off cell phone service ahead of a protest last week.
I do not disagree with bruce-church's assertion that some of the very wealthy are paying less in taxes than they ought. By the same token, those who are involved in illegal and off-the-books activity are also paying less than they ought. And we know that the bottom half of the population pays virtually nothing.
However, the answer is not taxing the upper 5% exuberantly; rather, what should be implemented is a low, flat-rate income tax for all citizens supplemented by a national sales tax. That way those who buy pay taxes - rich and poor, honest and dishonest alike contribute based on their material spending.
Regardless, I hesitate to say that people are "poor" in our nation. I cringe when my mother tells me how tight money is. No, money is not tight. Money is "tight" for starving villagers in Africa. The poorest of our nation are the wealthiest in the world, let alone in all of human history. Like grumpy indicates, we have a moral bankruptcy in the developed world which might benefit slightly from a little economic trouble.
I find that these assertions about how the poor in America ought to feel content to live in peace right next to people who are scandalously wealthy--just because they have it better than those in Africa--to be utterly repugnant.
Yeah . . . nothing like the repugnance of Holy Scripture which urges us to flee from the love of money and toward godly contentment regardless of our situation.
Daniel Baker, you are mixing the two kingdoms up, and besides, what you are saying is totally bogus. You can't run a country, much less a secular country, as though everyone was a Christian and saved, much less as though everyone was a sinless saint. Moreover, by supporting such huge wealth inequalities as measured by the Gini Index, you pray the Lord's prayer that you be not led into temptation while you tempt the poor every day to be envious, to feel as though they are being treated unfairly (which they are), and to riot and loot and steal. If there is a God, you'll be the one waylaid by your victims and not me.
The poorest of our nation are the wealthiest in the world, let alone in all of human history.
I do not know how to be kind to this comment.
I go to the US often specially in California where my father and uncle live.
I have been to the heart of LA. I saw the poor there living on their grocery carts. I could not comprehend how the USA can send people to the moon while there are people scavenging on trash.
This also happens in Australia but it is a bit more serious for the US.
It is because the US government is wealthy in comparison to others and it is a terrible shame because it has money to help these people if the government wanted to.
The comparison to Africa is so parochial I find it hard to be nice.
LPC
Lito, good sir: you essentially say that "the US government has the money to help the poor if it wanted to...and therefore the government ought to take care of people" Them are fightin words
Your statement is devoid of truth. The US Federal Government is not rich. It spends 1.5 billion more each month than it gains in tax receipts. Just because a government has no qualms about increasing the money supply does not mean the government is rich. What you call "wealth" is actually the destruction of wealth via inflation. Google "Mises Institute" for a primer on Economics.
The problem is not that the government doesn't give people enough. The problem is that the government gives people too much. Giving a man something he didn't earn presents a moral hazard, and most people fail.
Ben Franklin:“We should make the poor uncomfortable and kick them out of their poverty” Franklin said this as he commemorated the first free hospital in the Nation, which he paid for. Franklin wasn't suggesting that we mistreat the poor, he was just recognizing that when the Government relieves a man of the responsibility to take care of himself, the man becomes a leech. Look at 2 Thess 3:10 and tell me what Paul was talking about.
But Lito, what it comes down to is that governments like your own, and Europe, are Statist and socialistic. Your government's philosophy is that people are subjects of the State; the "Individual", as a entity, exist to the degree which the Government permits.
True American philosophy approaches the Individual as the most elemental building block of society. (NOT the government) The government exists only because we, a multitude of individuals want it to exist. We are not subjects to "The State", and the state does not exist to serve people goodies from the public treasury. Rather the State exists to protect our liberties. And it's a shame that so much anti-american philosophy has been injected into our country from outside influences.
If you study what America philosophy really is I think you'll be persuaded that it is the best system--designed to encourage the best parts of human nature..and that Statism is designed to make comfortable slaves.
Bored,
Ahem.
If you study what America philosophy really is I think you'll be persuaded that it is the best system--designed to encourage the best parts of human nature
Correct but I disagree that it encourages the best part of human nature, actually it encourages the promotion of the sinful self.
Let me remind you that I was a Calvinist. Now permit me to say where American philosophy ... the Individual came from.
It came from the Calvinist/Anabaptist/Unitarian/Deist/Puritan ideal of the individual.
Study the Calvinist Puritan values and you will see that it is very visible and alive in the value system of some folk in America.
In saying this, I am not being Anti-American, rather I am pro-tribal or pro-family.
If you observe specially oriental societies, it is not the individual that counts, it is the tribe, the family, it is the community that is of importance. It is their elders and what they say that counts. They still respect their elders.
The individualist experiment is about to fail, that is not to say that its will not survive for it will because it is founded on the self interest of...the self. This is always appealing for it feeds on our sinful inclination, so its promotion will survive, but it will leave people lonely and sad in the end.
The job of a civilized cultures or governments is provide justice for the under-privilege, the oppressed, its job is to protect its people from self destruction. Its job is to protect its members from harm and even self harm. Mind you, I am speaking of a civilized society and civilized people. I believe USA is supposed to be one of such people.
Hence, I am puzzled why a country that can send people in space, and yes, spend $1.5 billion is not spending it on their poor but are spending it somewhere else. I could not comprehend that.
LPC
Lito, a lot of money is wasted. We have people drive up for welfare checks in their new SUVs. Food stamps, or their equivalent, have become the equivalent of cash, so they are misused. People can get free medical care for walking across the border.
The demographics are quite different. For whatever reasons, both political parties have chosen to allow open borders and a constant invasion of the poor from other countries. However, we block the skilled from other countries. The current system of entitlements for everyone who chooses not to work is a failure.
For example, one student told me of her former life, in an extended family where everyone was on welfare and stole to get extra money for luxuries. She said it was hard to give that up for a full-time job.
bruce-church,
I agree that the government cannot be run as if everyone is a sinless saint. If I thought this faulty notion was the case, I would be a liberal, supporting a socialist agenda. However, I know that forced equality, forced love, forced Christianity does not work - only the Holy Ghost can change hearts. Therefore, I do not think that the government should be a theocracy, because mixing Church and State gives you medieval Europe. Theology should be left to ordained ministers, and charity to Christian congregations.
On the reverse side of the coin, politicians should be most interested in enforcing its laws and maintaining order. Our law is not ensuring equal economic circumstances for all. Alms-giving is a Christian construct, not a governmental one; let's leave it to the Church please.
LPC,
Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule. When I said "the poorest of our nation," I was referring to those who are stereotypically indicated as the "poorest" of society by political pundits; namely, the inhabitants of inner cities. Obviously, there are exceptional cases of disadvantaged people; the American Indian tribes of the Dakotas come to mind in this regard: they constitute the poorest cities and societies of this nation, resembling third-world countries. Regardless, even these people have opportunities that humans of other times and places would covet. I do not say this to shame our nation or to insinuate that the status quo is a-ok; my point was simply that all people, especially we as Christians, need a bit of morality in the form of contentment rather than the illustrious "more."
Are there poor in this nation? Yes. There are less fortunate people even in in the upper classes. As Christians, our goal should be to share everything we have with anyone who needs it, particularly those who are our brothers in the faith; this nation needs true, Christian charity on a private level, not a governmental one.
LPC: What is good for government is not necessarily good for religion. That is to say, the "best" of human nature should never be put on a pedestal in the Church because the whole point is that the best of human nature isn't good enough. But when talking about groups of people? Only a fool would suggest policy and a rule of law that didn't seek to support the best of mankind.
God created man to work, Lito, and therefore the best part of human nature can be found when we regard work. Insofar as a man works to create something, produces something, cares for those in his charge (family), and deals decently and honestly with those both above him and below him, he is living up to the best possible secular goal of man on earth. A man like that is doing what God intended for all men. This honor has zero effect on him eternally...but again, we aren't talking about the spiritual realm, we are talking about systems that work for groups of people---systems that set man up for success, not failure.
The United States has the best philosophy because its Founders, though Deists, accurately understood certain principles about human nature--principles about which godless socialists are so utterly ignorant. Man was created, By God, to work and he was created to reap the benefits of his labor, and to do right with his labor's profit. Man's work ethic is destroyed when his profit is stolen from him, or when he is forced to do wrong with his profit; the good parts of his human-ness are degraded and the vice in him is watered and fertilized. Likewise, when a man is given something he didn't earn he becomes, sooner than later, an animal, a leech. Those who are perpetually poor in the USA are victims of policies which fostered their greed, fostered their laziness, and cultivated their wastefulness. The perpetual poor aren't naturally more evil than anyone else, but they were the ones presented with the moral hazard.
Socialism and statism, on the other hand, have philosophical roots in pure humanism, reductionism, Marxism, Darwinism, Atheism. This statement isn't conjecture Lito. It's a traceable fact. A man may find Godlessness in any political ideology, but in socialism and statism you find the pure hatred of God promoted by enemies of Truth. Christianity can flourish in the politics of American Conservatism, but not in the political left. The political ideology of the Left is antithetical to Christianity--so obviously so that it is intellectually self-deprecating to suggest otherwise.
Oh... and I should mention Lito,
I don't think that capitalism is synonymous with real American Conservative Philosophy. I think the infinite growth premise of American business is ridiculous. I also think that the American capitalist experiment worked for a long time only because we got 3.7 million sq miles of free land. How the US approaches the Means of Production in relation to the Everyman is in dire need of adaptation. Now that there are no more free resources we need to adjust how capital flows through our economy. America isn't living up to it's own belief structure because the Means of Production are firmly sequestered in the hands of a few.
I think you probably fall into the group of people who equate Capitalism with Americanism. Your observations might be valid if they weren't misplaced. I'll grant you that the collusion of Big Business and Big Government is efficiently making wage-slaves. Criticize what Americans are doing, but notice that they aren't really following the precepts of their own philosophy... and notice that citizens are trying to fix these problems...and read President Eisenhower's farewell address to the Nation.
Hi all,
I accept the existence of bludgers.
Bludger : lazy person, layabout, somebody who always relies on other people to do things or lend him things
However 25 years ago in Australia, the bludgers were not characterized by migrants to Australia. At any rate, some migrants are learning the trick from their Anglo counter parts, they are learning the trick of bludging.
There is no good system to weed the bludgers out since they are professional about this. We have them too.
We are heavily taxed people on earth. Our average tax is 32%. In some cases when a worker gets overtime pay, his tax goes to 48%. This is the reason an Aussie does not want to do overtime, because he does not get all of it. I am speaking about a salary from 50K-150K on average.
For a worker who gets 50K a year, that is stiff tax.
So it stands to reason from our perspective, if we are paying this high tax, where does the Australian tax money go? So yes, we have high expectations from our government, simply because they tax us very much.
I just got hospitalized last June. I paid nothing whatsoever for blood test, doctor's attention, etc, nothing at all. BTW got no medical insurance that would bail me out, none of that.
I deserve it, I paid my tax.
For every tax payer like me, I support another 3 in welfare. Who knows who they are.
I do not mind, because when I did my doctorate, they paid for it and what is more, they paid me to do it too! And I do not have to return every cent they invested on me.
I signed no contracts to the Federal Government.
That is fair if Americans do not expect anything from the their government, just that their government should not tax them at all.
Lastly in answer to Bored, the American Philosophy of the Individual I find is not Christian at all. Jesus kept on saying to love our neighbor the way we love ourselves. It is hard to be individualistic under that teaching.
LPC
Well LPC, I noticed that you didn't answer my charge that Socialism in all its forms is the direct result of Darwinism and Marxism and Atheism. Like I said, there is no argument to that fact.
American Individualism has nothing antithetical to Christianity, LPC. You seem to have read Ayn Rand and believe that that is Americanism. It's not. American Individualism simply is that God created the Individual to be an Individual. He didn't create a collective. The only structure God instituted was the family. God made man to reap what he sows and be autonomous.
Socialism on the other hand teaches (whether or not you believe it) that there is no God and that man is an animal and that humanity is continually progressing. (a la Darwinism) Socialism sacrifices the Individual for the good of the whole, for the sole purpose of human progress.
Good luck with rectifying your Christianity with THAT system. I'm not being sarcastic. I mean that. Good luck. But you'll have to pick one master sooner or later. However, there is a distinct possibility you're the very bludger you criticize.
Since you defend socialism I have to ask you one thing. Please stay out of our country. If you like 35% tax rates, knock yourself out. I won't stop you. Just stay away and keep your politics with you. We'll save your country's lousy butt a third time in the next World War with our "unChristian" individualism and our evil capitalism.
(note: I don't deny you have made many astute theological observations on this site. You're a knowledgeable guy, certainly. I say this because I mean no disrespect but it's just a cost/benefit analysis. Your socialist comrades on this side of the ocean are the chief source of subjective truth, pro-gay, anti family, pro abortion, antichurch, anti free speech, anti-Christian sentiments. The American Christian church is largely suffering because of the philosophy that you here defend. We need less socialists here.)
LPC,
The government always will need our taxes, if only for things like the police fire departments and the military. These are services that our government provides for us. If you want your government to provide more, than indeed they must tax more. But in the United States, some of us are not convinced that government is able to provide that "more" in an effective way. We look to the more socialistic systems of other Western nations and believe that the private sector can provide for our needs better than the government - and as for the poor, we believe the Church needs to be there, not Big Brother.
Bored,
Well LPC, I noticed that you didn't answer my charge that Socialism in all its forms is the direct result of Darwinism and Marxism and Atheism. Like I said, there is no argument to that fact.
I can not answer for any socialist government. Australia is socialistic but not socialist.
Are you referring to USSR and China. There I will agree with you. However it is not exactly true for Australia.
Socialistic means it comes with some gray areas.
unChristian? Well Bored, the constitution of Australia supports the Anglican Church, it is written there. It has special treatment.
Your socialist comrades on this side of the ocean are the chief source of subjective truth, pro-gay, anti family, pro abortion, antichurch, anti free speech, anti-Christian sentiments
Just letting you know up to now we do not have a state that allows gay marriages because in the Aussie constitution it is written what marriage is - between man and a woman.
What I do not like about Australia is that it follows whatever America does, so yes soon we will have what you have - gay marriages where right now we don't.
However, there is a distinct possibility you're the very bludger you criticize
Not true, I just paid my tax.
Just stay away and keep your politics with you
I did twice, I had opportunity to work in the US, once was for Microsoft.
LPC
um... stayin' where you are? Thank you, from the bottom of my heart. A job offer from Microsoft does not impress. I was once offered a position in the DOD. Big whupp.
word to the (un)wise: Export your theology but not your politics. "Socialistic" IS socialism and we will destroy it.
Christians have no business flirting with Godless socialism and I pray that you renounce it.
What America does is not what America is supposed to be doing. I encourage you to learn about true American ideology. You don't realize you are castigating My country for the very ways in which it whores itself to the ideology of countries like Australia. Get some education about the USA at its core. Google: John Locke, Sam Adams, Ben Franklin, Ethan Allen, Don't Tread on Me.
Bored,
My country for the very ways in which it whores itself to the ideology of countries like Australia.
You are neglecting the obvious reality, please open your eyes and exercise a bit of personal skepticism and self doubt -
It is the other way around, it is Australia who goes after the values of America. It is Australia who is whoring after the one who is powerful.
Christians have no business flirting with Godless socialism and I pray that you renounce it.
And Christians also have no business idolizing Godless adoration of the self.
Individualism is a Puritan ideal, as I said, I was a Calvinist.
You might hate Calvinism, but wake up, the American culture was founded on Puritan Calvinist ideals. The way you talk then means that Calvinism is not bad after all for it ingrained in you many good things you see in it and you are a product of it too. The value you espouse makes a Calvinist Puritan proud.
Australia is socialistic and I said it comes to some degree. However, I am not here to defend her system for all civilizations will go down one day when Jesus returns. They will tumble, that is the history of any human civilization no matter how great they were.
Australians are very individualistic too which I also disdain.
In fact Bored, it was an American company who brought me to Australia, they paid for me to come, they gave me money to settle here. It was Unisys.
I was originally born in a country colonized by Uncle Sam, I am thankful for they gave my people education. So I have no quarrel with Americans. They did a lot of good to me.
You do not need to be defensive.
I would be delighted to discuss these various notions from a Christian stand point, i.e. as a Christian rather than as a person who believes in the advantages of certain forms of political philosophy.
However I am pessimistic if I can discuss such concepts with you in the environment filled with sanity.
I do not think that is possible with you right now.
LPC
LPC,
I heartily endorse your preceding post on the foundation of America and its "individualism." Our country was founded upon anything but orthodox Christianity. (This is without even diving into the fact that the nation was founded upon rebellion against our God-ordained king.) I am thankful that I live with the liberties that America affords me, but I don't buy into the patriotic statism that most people in this country have. Let's keep the flag in front of the post office and away from our altars, thanks. The right hand Kingdom should be the source of our pride, joy, and faith - not the left hand kingdom.
Daniel,
Thank you.
I do not want the other readers to think I am person who hates anything American. I can not do it. My grand parents loved General MacArthur so much when he died, they along with others mourned for 7 days. Honestly in their eyes (when they were alive), America could never do wrong, they were really colonial.
I owe a lot to my American friends and have benefitted from them. I came to Australia 20+ years ago, and it was a US computer company who moved my family paying everything and even giving me $4000 to buy my family a bed, ref, tables etc. I had $65 in my pocket when I came with my 3 little ones and the missus. $50 of this was a gift by my American co-worker (a backslidden Baptist turned atheist whom I led back to church) the $15 was from my mom.
I cannot hate Americans, because if I did I would be slashing myself in the throat. My daughter in law is American and one of the most godly gentle sweet woman I have ever encountered in my life. She is even closer to my missus than my daughters. I urged her to have our grand sons by her to keep their US citizenship. I even paid for the expense so her little ones can have US passports.
Frankly I find Australians much more narrow compared to Americans and I abhor that aspect of their culture, so nothing is perfect.
The effect of the Christian faith in me is to look at people not with the eyes on what is their political persuasion but by what is the faith they possess. If a person believes the Gospel, teaches and confesses it then I am bound to treat such a person as a brother rather than an enemy. Their political conviction is of no consequence ; besides are not born into this world already an adult, we grow and mature, we only see things darkly while we are here on earth.
And even if I differ with the person in certain opinions and convictions, the Christian faith compels me to voice my difference in the spirit of gentleness and respect.
1 Pe 3:15
15But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear
LPC
LPC. Socialism is evil. I fight evil. To the extent that you defend socialism, I will fight you. It's not personal. And brushing off what I say as "getting defensive" is patronizing.
My point LPC, is that the driving force behind socialism is a godless Darwinian collectivism. To support Socialism one must either be a naive Christian and internally conflicted, or not a Christian at all. A man can't serve two masters, and socialism IS a belief system that seeks to replace God with the Progress of Man. Socialism is a religion. Socialism IS a Faith, and it's credo is Marxian and Darwinian reductionism. They view society the same way they view individuals: You are only a lump of protoplasm which is made of chance combination of random chemicals, and because Millions of years have gone into your evolution you are able to make clever witticisms. That is all you are to them, a collection of your constituent parts, and society too, is just a collection of these blobs to be manipulated for the common good. There is no place for Christianity in a belief system that denies God---that is to say: The tenets of socialism and the tenets of Christianity are self-canceling. Socialism leaves no room for Orthodoxy.
Now, a national church might have a socialist government as a pimp, but that doesn't disprove anything I'm saying. The most honest socialists kill Christians. On the other hand, the most successful socialists use the church to promote their beliefs.
On the other hand, look at what started the American philosophical movement. It sure wasn't Christian orthodoxy, but it absolutely leaves room for it. The Constitution of the U.S. has very little theology inherent in it. You try to tell me that American Political philosophy is Calvanist in subtext. Not so much. Calvinism carries a determinism (double predestination) that is antithetical to the American view. Our founding fathers did not believe in fate, but that the triumph of the human spirit and will is a gift of God, that we can be the master of our destiny.(continued)
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Now, I'll grant you, the triumph of the will and all that is a bunch of garbage, in terms of what we Christians know about man's natural state. We aren't the masters of our own fate... But the Government and founding documents do not impose themselves as a Faith upon Citizens of this country. There is nothing antithetical about (in a theoretical sense) about espousing both American ideology and Christianity. All men are created equal. (Which is a recognition that all men deserve equal protection under the law...not that all men deserve the same life.) The Constitution innumerate the Liberties and Right which the Founding Fathers believed were necessary to create and maintain a Just society. There is nothing in the Constitution that a Christian (or a Hindu, or Buddhist, or Atheist) can't accept 100%. Our system is the best governmental system for this very reason. It is not a faith, but a social contract which allows all faiths to live under a true and common understanding of Justice. Why is it able to do this? Because America reveres the individual. Without the individual as the core of American society, we fail in our justice, just as socialistic countries fail. (It's a failure of justice that any man should give away 30-50% of his income)
Now, LPC, everything I've just said is theoretical. What I described is the philosophical underpinnings of my country. That IS America, but unfortunately we have two warring factions of Oligarchs fighting for dominance. One Oligarchy is Socialism and the other is the Corporatocracy. Check out the middle ground--you'll find that the best of the U.S. and the best of Australia (and the best of any other people) lies between these two Oligarchical powers. Every people will always be fighting one or the other. Big Business and Big Government are the enemies of all people because individuals do best when we govern ourselves.
I'm sorry I got edgy wth you LPC, but in this country we're fighting to keep our heads above water, and our country is being currently destroyed by the socialists. With any luck the next president will not be a socialist or a corporate Stooge.
Check out Distributism. It's a economic theory (The" third way") developed by Belloc and Chesterton. If you look into Distributism you'll learn a lot more about Socialism and Capitalism that I can verbalize, and you might be persuaded by better minds than mine of the idiocy and antiChristianity of both. I think it'd be right up your alley because unlike capitalism, it recognizes the Christian duty to our fellow man, but doesn't seek to make man a cog in a great machine like socialism does.
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